What claims are you talking about? All the major stuff they've claimed in dev journals has been demonstrated in either video or screenshot form, usually both:
- real-time combat, yes, video + screenshots
- mounts and mounted combat, yes, video + screenshots
- ships and naval combat, yes, video + screenshots
- city building, yes, video + screenshots (only clan cities that are already built though)
- sieges, yes, screenshots only
- physics engine, yes, videos of explosions, tree branches blowing in wind, player and mount collision
- world, weapons and armour, yes, video + many screenshots
- spells and special attacks, yes, video + screenshots of some, not many
things we haven't seen which are important to the game but aren't central:
- mob AI
- climbing/swimming
- crafting
- character creation
All in all I'd say they've solidly backed up all their major claims, the other stuff isn't that central to the game or they have explicitly stated they're *not* going to show it because they want it to be discovered.
It often seems you troll guys just chant your vaporware mantras because you're just following other people without really critically evaluating the stuff that's actually out there.
It often seems you troll guys just chant your vaporware mantras because you're just following other people without really critically evaluating the stuff that's actually out there.
Heh, conversely I think it's the exact opposite of that.
It often seems you troll guys just chant your vaporware mantras because you're just following other people without really critically evaluating the stuff that's actually out there.
Heh, conversely I think it's the exact opposite of that.
The difference being that we have evidence of the game existing and being released soon, you guys have only speculation based on a long development time.
It often seems you troll guys just chant your vaporware mantras because you're just following other people without really critically evaluating the stuff that's actually out there.
Heh, conversely I think it's the exact opposite of that.
The difference being that we have evidence of the game existing and being released soon, you guys have only speculation based on a long development time.
What is said evidence, can you point it out?
As a pre-emptive retort, if you say videos, screenshots and textual dev information is evidence of the game existing, I will show you videos, screenshots and textual dev information of Gods and Heroes, Star Trek Online, Starcraft Ghost and other games that currently do not exist, so it is necessary but not sufficient to prove existence. If it's that they have a publisher (which they don't, yet, but that's another can of worms), then I'll kindly remind you that the games above, and many others that did not and do not exist, had publishers.
Personally I believe they have a game, but that's belief, not knowledge, and there's no evidence of it either.
The difference being that we have evidence of the game existing and being released soon, you guys have only speculation based on a long development time.
Dark and Light had a ton of screens. But when the game was released, it didn't have most of the things they claimed it would. It also crashed constantly and was totally unplayable
What claims are you talking about? All the major stuff they've claimed in dev journals has been demonstrated in either video or screenshot form, usually both: - real-time combat, yes, video + screenshots Basic at best with no UI showing health loss or death. In fact other then particles and model motion there is nothing in any of the vids showing actual combat mechanics. Try again. - mounts and mounted combat, yes, video + screenshots Yup... riding is in... nothing new there. As to mounted combat again no mechanics shown, just model movement in the vids. - ships and naval combat, yes, video + screenshots Vids show practically nothing on navel combat. Again a boat model sinking. No mechanics. - city building, yes, video + screenshots (only clan cities that are already built though) How can you say there are vids and pictures of city building then put in that no city building has actually be shown. Simply put nothing of there claims to this feature have actually been shown to date. Try again. - sieges, yes, screenshots only Sorry... I have seen models captured, but that does not make a siege. No proof of this exists. - physics engine, yes, videos of explosions, tree branches blowing in wind, player and mount collision Again no real evidence of this. No shots that show a model arcing dynamically. Collision is simple and has nothing to do wih physics engine. Explosions are particle effects nothing more. Try again. - world, weapons and armour, yes, video + many screenshots Basic models. No stats or mechanics on how they work within the game. - spells and special attacks, yes, video + screenshots of some, not many Particle effects only. No mechanics shown. things we haven't seen which are important to the game but aren't central: - mob AI - climbing/swimming - crafting - character creation - Skill mechanics
- Item mechanics
- Death mechanics
- Mob variety
- PvP Mechanics
- etc.... All in all I'd say they've solidly backed up all their major claims, the other stuff isn't that central to the game or they have explicitly stated they're *not* going to show it because they want it to be discovered. They have backed up NOTHING. The only thing anyone outside of Advanturine can say is that they have a 3d environment with models. Thats it! No mechanics at ALL have been released through video or technical faq. It often seems you troll guys just chant your vaporware mantras because you're just following other people without really critically evaluating the stuff that's actually out there. Please point out where I have called this game vaporware. You are assuming rather then reading what people are saying. I am a FAN of the DF concept. I think if a decent dev company worked on this project it would be fantastic. Tasos has proven through the YEARS that you cannot trust anything he says. They have mismanaged their entire fan base, PRs, and dissemination of information in general. What makes you so sure that you can take anything released as fact?
Once again something you ignored in my post. I HOPE DF is everything it claims to be. I just am realistic considering who is making it and the way they have handled everything up to this date
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
All the things I listed are shown. Why the hell are you saying "no mechanics shown" - mechanics can't be shown, only described. Your entire post raises not one good counter-point so there's nothing worth replying to.
Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it's not there. The videos and screenshots they've produced cover 99% of the game, not 90%. They've explicity stated that sieging will be featured in the video they're making now; sieging has appeared in various screenshots already.
they don't have videos of mobs, npc's, city building , crafting , gathering. Thats most of the game
No, it's a PVP game, all that stuff with the exception of city-building is carebear BS. See this post.
By the way, your elitism is showing. Many members of the DF community painstakingly reiterate that the game is not just a PvP game, but a world simulation of sorts. I guess this just means that with how vague everything about DF has been it's a different game to different people. Oh, and this.
As a pre-emptive retort, if you say videos, screenshots and textual dev information is evidence of the game existing, I will show you videos, screenshots and textual dev information of Gods and Heroes, Star Trek Online, Starcraft Ghost and other games that currently do not exist, so it is necessary but not sufficient to prove existence. If it's that they have a publisher (which they don't, yet, but that's another can of worms), then I'll kindly remind you that the games above, and many others that did not and do not exist, had publishers.
Videos, screenshots, journals, and 3rd party accounts of the game are all conclusive evidence the game exists. Those games you mentioned DO exist, but like Darkfall, they're unreleased.
Please. By the way, your elitism is showing. Many members of the DF community painstakingly reiterate that the game is not just a PvP game, but a world simulation of sorts. I guess this just means that with how vague everything about DF has been it's a different game to different people. Oh, and this.
Your link doesn't work. And no, the game developers themelves describe Darkfall as a PVP conquest game, you can pretend it's a WOW clone, or a barbie hairstyle studio, but you're setting yourself up for major disappointment. In terms of judging the game by the description given by the developers, Darkfall has delivered plenty.
As a pre-emptive retort, if you say videos, screenshots and textual dev information is evidence of the game existing, I will show you videos, screenshots and textual dev information of Gods and Heroes, Star Trek Online, Starcraft Ghost and other games that currently do not exist, so it is necessary but not sufficient to prove existence. If it's that they have a publisher (which they don't, yet, but that's another can of worms), then I'll kindly remind you that the games above, and many others that did not and do not exist, had publishers.
Videos, screenshots, journals, and 3rd party accounts of the game are all conclusive evidence the game exists. Those games you mentioned DO exist, but like Darkfall, they're unreleased.
Semantics are not your forte
I guess it is an argument of semantics and standards of rigor. You see, since I do not consider those (the videos, screenshots, and textual dev information) evidence of existence, if that's the only thing a game has available (including Darkfall), I don't think they (the videos, screenshots and textual dev information, etc) prove that game exists. I consider them necessary, but not sufficient evidence of existence. So you saying they do exist is, for me at least, speculation.
The exception would be those games that were playable by the public or mainstream media in some form. I do consider that conclusive evidence of them existing, at least in some form. Unfortunately that is not the case with Darkfall.
Link me a MMOG that features trees where each branch is individually swaying in the wind and casting fully dynamic shadows on the ground and grass? Personally I think their graphics are *amazing* when you consider they are aiming for low poly count and high numbers of actors on-screen (ie: massive battles).
The signifiance of this is really apparent in AoC's (long) list of issues - AoC went for full bling graphics but now they'e discovered that siege performance is really really bad.
All the things I listed are shown. Why the hell are you saying "no mechanics shown" - mechanics can't be shown, only described. Your entire post raises not one good counter-point so there's nothing worth replying to.
Most of the things you listed are NOT shown.
Models sinking or running around a 3d environment prove nothing of the mechanics which was my point. Mechanics can be shown through pictures of the UI (item/character stats) and videos of game play that show damage/death/city building.
It is easy to show game mechanics in pictures and especially video. The peeks at game mechanics have been glaringly missing. Up until last year there were not even any pictures of the game UI.
Choke you are the same as every other fanboy that comes to these boards talking smack. You will fade along with the rest when Tasos misses another date and the people who have actually followed this game will still be here. You are not saying anything new because you have nothing new to back up what you say. Believe what you want to believe, but stop trying to be a board warrior for a game that has a history of let downs. Your oppinion is not the only one out there and they are just as valid as yours.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Models sinking or running around a 3d environment prove nothing of the mechanics which was my point. Mechanics can be shown through pictures of the UI (item/character stats) and videos of game play that show damage/death/city building.
Pictures of a UI (Item/character stats) as you put it are purely cosmetic; they have nothing to do with real mechanics other than being linked to a character's health/mana/stamina pool.
You're really making a big deal out of the most trivial part of an MMO - the UI - and you're glossing over the really difficult stuff - the physics engine, the real-time combat, mounted combat, city building and sieging. There's a reason why there's no MMOs to date have had all these things - it's because they're hard.
These are the real meat of the game, if you're expecting a better WOW from Darkfall, then you're going to be disappointed... The "revoluionary features" of Darkfall are exactly those things (which no other MMOs currently have), so it's hardly surprising that that's what they are going to feature most.
Screenshots/videos of backbacks and health/mana bars going up and down are not exciting and every MMO is of course going to have those things... it goes without saying. I'm not at all surprised they haven't shown those things because a) they're so easy to code and b) their physics and combat systems are their best feature and the things that most distinguish Darkfall as a revolutionary MMO.
Hope this clears some things up for you.
I'm not going to deny that Darkfall has had more than its fair share of letdowns over the years, however the bottom line is that Darkfall is clearly going to be a better game for having revised and expanded its scope from the original 2003 and then 2006 near-releases, because it will have that many more features and better graphics. This much is clear through the much improved graphics in the past year, and the announcement of various new features that have been added in this time.
Dark'n'Light maybe could've been a great game had they had the luxury of holding back their release for another 2 years to complete their feature list. Age of Conan could've been a pretty decent game had they held back their release for another 6-12 months to fix all the bugs and missing/broken gameplay. I for one am glad that the Darkfall guys have the luxurious position of being well-funded enough to have taken their time to get things right.
Will it be the great PVP game so many of us have been waiting for for so long? Only time will tell, but were you able to look at the entirety of Darkfall from the perspective of someone who hasn't lived through the near-releases and all the waiting I think you'd probably agree that Darkfall looks every bit like the real-deal.
Since the UI is so easy, why dont you give the guys at Roma Victor some help. They are on their third one, and it is still clumsy and difficult to use. The UI is THE connection between the user and the game, and it is apparently not that easy to make it work well in all situations. If you are not aware, RV has very similar features to DF, so they should share much common ground in this area. Besides the games sharing some common ground, the dev teams seem similar too. RV is made by RedBedlam, a self-funded indie dev team making their own dream sandbox, though with a historical theme.
It isnt easy or trivial. But I will admit, anything they show us on a video will not be enough to get a feel for it. This is where they need playtesters, but I digress.
Models sinking or running around a 3d environment prove nothing of the mechanics which was my point. Mechanics can be shown through pictures of the UI (item/character stats) and videos of game play that show damage/death/city building.
Pictures of a UI (Item/character stats) as you put it are purely cosmetic; they have nothing to do with real mechanics other than being linked to a character's health/mana/stamina pool.
So knowing if armor uses mitigation or avoidance is cosmetic? Knowing if items are stat or percent base is cosmetic? Knowing how many skills are actually in the game is cosmetic?
I can go on and on about how a peek at the UI can give INSIGHT on the game mechanics.
You're really making a big deal out of the most trivial part of an MMO - the UI - and you're glossing over the really difficult stuff - the physics engine, the real-time combat, mounted combat, city building and sieging. There's a reason why there's no MMOs to date have had all these things - it's because they're hard.
UI is important in that it is the gateway to controling your character. What if the game has no option to run at higher resolution? Many people would see that as a big deal. What if the guild UI was horrible and provided little to nothing? That would be a deal breaker for many guilds looking to move on to something new. Again the list goes on and on.
Where are the physics movies? Tasos claims that firing an arrow from a hill will make it travel farther... where IS that movie? no where to be seen. Nothing of the claimed physics engine has actually been shown. Nothing of the city building has been shown. We have seen static buildings, but they could be place there as part of the environment and not part of any mechanics in the game. Where is the actual movies of players fighting and dying... we have seen models with pretty particle affects, but that shows nothing of game mechanics.
These are the real meat of the game, if you're expecting a better WOW from Darkfall, then you're going to be disappointed... The "revoluionary features" of Darkfall are exactly those things (which no other MMOs currently have), so it's hardly surprising that that's what they are going to feature most.
I don't play WOW... that is you failing to argue your point and looking to slander my position through assumptions. To continue to do so is foolish. There are no revolutionary features in DF. Everything has been done in other games, what DF claims is that they will all now be in one game.
Call out a feature and I will name the game that does it.
Screenshots/videos of backbacks and health/mana bars going up and down are not exciting and every MMO is of course going to have those things... it goes without saying. I'm not at all surprised they haven't shown those things because a) they're so easy to code and b) their physics and combat systems are their best feature and the things that most distinguish Darkfall as a revolutionary MMO.
If every MMO has then... then they this game can hardly be called revolutionary can it. Guessing by your dismissive nature about coding pretty much proves you have never done it. At least not on the scale that a game developer has. Please don't claim otherwise... again it would sound foolish.
Hope this clears some things up for you.
It has been crystal clear to me for 4 years now. It is all of the 3 month woderkins that come on this board claiming DF is the second coming that seem to be the confused ones.
I'm not going to deny that Darkfall has had more than its fair share of letdowns over the years, however the bottom line is that Darkfall is clearly going to be a better game for having revised and expanded its scope from the original 2003 and then 2006 near-releases, because it will have that many more features and better graphics. This much is clear through the much improved graphics in the past year, and the announcement of various new features that have been added in this time.
What new features exactly? The site has not been updates since 2005. Anything that Tasos says is pure speculation as to the validity of truth. I can tell you my car gets 50 MPG, but it is not fact until I actually show some proof that it can. Same with DF... the concept is just fantastic, but the game is NOT the concept until there is proof, A hand full of short vids and screen shots are not proof for a game of this scale.
Dark'n'Light maybe could've been a great game had they had the luxury of holding back their release for another 2 years to complete their feature list. Age of Conan could've been a pretty decent game had they held back their release for another 6-12 months to fix all the bugs and missing/broken gameplay. I for one am glad that the Darkfall guys have the luxurious position of being well-funded enough to have taken their time to get things right.
No the chances are these games would never be great no matter how much time they were given because the mechanics of those games is flawed. Given enough time I could make a fancy package for a pile of crap, but at the end of the day what do I have... a pile of crap. That is why seeing the mechanics of DF is so important to validating the game. Why have they not in 6 years had a public display of the game. Not closed door "fanboy visitor" screenings... I mean Gaming convention 1000 people a day demos? EVERY game development company out there pushing a game out the door has time to send one lacky to do a presentation. Why not Adventurine?
Will it be the great PVP game so many of us have been waiting for for so long? Only time will tell, but were you able to look at the entirety of Darkfall from the perspective of someone who hasn't lived through the near-releases and all the waiting I think you'd probably agree that Darkfall looks every bit like the real-deal.
Again you are assuming... Anyone who takes the time to look through the site and has played enough MMOs before would be mildly optomistic. I still have hope for DF, I do not claim it is vaporware. I will probably be more happy then many of the fanboys at release because I have realistic expectations of the game. Everything that is being released about DF and how it is being released screams Shadowbane 2. The same rabid fanbase and dev cycle and many other simularities show up between DF and Shadowbane. I am expecting the same kind of release and the same kind of excuses after the fact. Time will tell... you have that right.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Models sinking or running around a 3d environment prove nothing of the mechanics which was my point. Mechanics can be shown through pictures of the UI (item/character stats) and videos of game play that show damage/death/city building.
Pictures of a UI (Item/character stats) as you put it are purely cosmetic; they have nothing to do with real mechanics other than being linked to a character's health/mana/stamina pool.
So knowing if armor uses mitigation or avoidance is cosmetic? Knowing if items are stat or percent base is cosmetic? Knowing how many skills are actually in the game is cosmetic?
I can go on and on about how a peek at the UI can give INSIGHT on the game mechanics.
...but doesn't prove or disprove vapourware. you totally missed the point.
You're really making a big deal out of the most trivial part of an MMO - the UI - and you're glossing over the really difficult stuff - the physics engine, the real-time combat, mounted combat, city building and sieging. There's a reason why there's no MMOs to date have had all these things - it's because they're hard.
UI is important in that it is the gateway to controling your character. What if the game has no option to run at higher resolution? Many people would see that as a big deal. What if the guild UI was horrible and provided little to nothing? That would be a deal breaker for many guilds looking to move on to something new. Again the list goes on and on.
the option to run at different resolutions comes from the graphics library - OpenGL/DirectX - duh.
Where are the physics movies? Tasos claims that firing an arrow from a hill will make it travel farther... where IS that movie? no where to be seen. Nothing of the claimed physics engine has actually been shown. Nothing of the city building has been shown. We have seen static buildings, but they could be place there as part of the environment and not part of any mechanics in the game. Where is the actual movies of players fighting and dying... we have seen models with pretty particle affects, but that shows nothing of game mechanics.
No physics shown, how about: the visible knockback from mounted riders colliding? the kinetic knockback of players from a casted fireball? the movement of individual tree branches and grass in the wind? all of these things are clearly evident in the videos. or is the parabolic flight of an arrow the only thing you could think of when someone says physics?
Screenshots/videos of backbacks and health/mana bars going up and down are not exciting and every MMO is of course going to have those things... it goes without saying. I'm not at all surprised they haven't shown those things because a) they're so easy to code and b) their physics and combat systems are their best feature and the things that most distinguish Darkfall as a revolutionary MMO.
If every MMO has then... then they this game can hardly be called revolutionary can it. Guessing by your dismissive nature about coding pretty much proves you have never done it. At least not on the scale that a game developer has. Please don't claim otherwise... again it would sound foolish.
Hope this clears some things up for you.
It has been crystal clear to me for 4 years now. It is all of the 3 month woderkins that come on this board claiming DF is the second coming that seem to be the confused ones.
..and yet the game keeps going, with no signs of stopping, and all signs of releasing. the reason why people don't hang around is because it becomes clear very quickly they're dealing with irrational idiots.
I'm not going to deny that Darkfall has had more than its fair share of letdowns over the years, however the bottom line is that Darkfall is clearly going to be a better game for having revised and expanded its scope from the original 2003 and then 2006 near-releases, because it will have that many more features and better graphics. This much is clear through the much improved graphics in the past year, and the announcement of various new features that have been added in this time.
What new features exactly? The site has not been updates since 2005. Anything that Tasos says is pure speculation as to the validity of truth. I can tell you my car gets 50 MPG, but it is not fact until I actually show some proof that it can. Same with DF... the concept is just fantastic, but the game is NOT the concept until there is proof, A hand full of short vids and screen shots are not proof for a game of this scale.
hasn't had updates? what? are people seriously this lazy and stupid to be able to open a website and spend 30 seconds looking for new material. man oh man.
Dark'n'Light maybe could've been a great game had they had the luxury of holding back their release for another 2 years to complete their feature list. Age of Conan could've been a pretty decent game had they held back their release for another 6-12 months to fix all the bugs and missing/broken gameplay. I for one am glad that the Darkfall guys have the luxurious position of being well-funded enough to have taken their time to get things right.
No the chances are these games would never be great no matter how much time they were given because the mechanics of those games is flawed. Given enough time I could make a fancy package for a pile of crap, but at the end of the day what do I have... a pile of crap. That is why seeing the mechanics of DF is so important to validating the game. Why have they not in 6 years had a public display of the game. Not closed door "fanboy visitor" screenings... I mean Gaming convention 1000 people a day demos? EVERY game development company out there pushing a game out the door has time to send one lacky to do a presentation. Why not Adventurine?
if you can't see what the game is about from the videos and the style of gameplay that's going to be there then it's not Aventurine's fault.
Comments
What claims are you talking about? All the major stuff they've claimed in dev journals has been demonstrated in either video or screenshot form, usually both:
- real-time combat, yes, video + screenshots
- mounts and mounted combat, yes, video + screenshots
- ships and naval combat, yes, video + screenshots
- city building, yes, video + screenshots (only clan cities that are already built though)
- sieges, yes, screenshots only
- physics engine, yes, videos of explosions, tree branches blowing in wind, player and mount collision
- world, weapons and armour, yes, video + many screenshots
- spells and special attacks, yes, video + screenshots of some, not many
things we haven't seen which are important to the game but aren't central:
- mob AI
- climbing/swimming
- crafting
- character creation
All in all I'd say they've solidly backed up all their major claims, the other stuff isn't that central to the game or they have explicitly stated they're *not* going to show it because they want it to be discovered.
It often seems you troll guys just chant your vaporware mantras because you're just following other people without really critically evaluating the stuff that's actually out there.
Heh, conversely I think it's the exact opposite of that.
Heh, conversely I think it's the exact opposite of that.
The difference being that we have evidence of the game existing and being released soon, you guys have only speculation based on a long development time.
Heh, conversely I think it's the exact opposite of that.
The difference being that we have evidence of the game existing and being released soon, you guys have only speculation based on a long development time.
What is said evidence, can you point it out?
As a pre-emptive retort, if you say videos, screenshots and textual dev information is evidence of the game existing, I will show you videos, screenshots and textual dev information of Gods and Heroes, Star Trek Online, Starcraft Ghost and other games that currently do not exist, so it is necessary but not sufficient to prove existence. If it's that they have a publisher (which they don't, yet, but that's another can of worms), then I'll kindly remind you that the games above, and many others that did not and do not exist, had publishers.
Personally I believe they have a game, but that's belief, not knowledge, and there's no evidence of it either.
Dark and Light had a ton of screens. But when the game was released, it didn't have most of the things they claimed it would. It also crashed constantly and was totally unplayable
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
All the things I listed are shown. Why the hell are you saying "no mechanics shown" - mechanics can't be shown, only described. Your entire post raises not one good counter-point so there's nothing worth replying to.
they don't have videos of mobs, npc's, city building , crafting , gathering. Thats most of the game
No, it's a PVP game, all that stuff with the exception of city-building is carebear BS. See this post.
Please.
By the way, your elitism is showing. Many members of the DF community painstakingly reiterate that the game is not just a PvP game, but a world simulation of sorts. I guess this just means that with how vague everything about DF has been it's a different game to different people. Oh, and this.
Videos, screenshots, journals, and 3rd party accounts of the game are all conclusive evidence the game exists. Those games you mentioned DO exist, but like Darkfall, they're unreleased.
Semantics are not your forte
Your link doesn't work. And no, the game developers themelves describe Darkfall as a PVP conquest game, you can pretend it's a WOW clone, or a barbie hairstyle studio, but you're setting yourself up for major disappointment. In terms of judging the game by the description given by the developers, Darkfall has delivered plenty.
Videos, screenshots, journals, and 3rd party accounts of the game are all conclusive evidence the game exists. Those games you mentioned DO exist, but like Darkfall, they're unreleased.
Semantics are not your forte
I guess it is an argument of semantics and standards of rigor. You see, since I do not consider those (the videos, screenshots, and textual dev information) evidence of existence, if that's the only thing a game has available (including Darkfall), I don't think they (the videos, screenshots and textual dev information, etc) prove that game exists. I consider them necessary, but not sufficient evidence of existence. So you saying they do exist is, for me at least, speculation.
The exception would be those games that were playable by the public or mainstream media in some form. I do consider that conclusive evidence of them existing, at least in some form. Unfortunately that is not the case with Darkfall.
All the videos for this game look as bland and generic as you can possibly get. not to mention the tech looks about 5 years out of date.
They have literally no gameplay in them at all other than some models engaged in what appears to be a rudimentary combat system and some mount riding.
These are types of videos you expect to see from a game that has been in development for maybe a year . Not several long years.
Link me a MMOG that features trees where each branch is individually swaying in the wind and casting fully dynamic shadows on the ground and grass? Personally I think their graphics are *amazing* when you consider they are aiming for low poly count and high numbers of actors on-screen (ie: massive battles).
The signifiance of this is really apparent in AoC's (long) list of issues - AoC went for full bling graphics but now they'e discovered that siege performance is really really bad.
All the videos for this game look as bland and generic as you can possibly get. not to mention the tech looks about 5 years out of date.
On another hand, the OP made 3 "10-years-old-grammar-mistakes" in a 4 words subject....
...did you expect some sort of mature/expert point of view after that?...
Most of the things you listed are NOT shown.
Models sinking or running around a 3d environment prove nothing of the mechanics which was my point. Mechanics can be shown through pictures of the UI (item/character stats) and videos of game play that show damage/death/city building.
It is easy to show game mechanics in pictures and especially video. The peeks at game mechanics have been glaringly missing. Up until last year there were not even any pictures of the game UI.
Choke you are the same as every other fanboy that comes to these boards talking smack. You will fade along with the rest when Tasos misses another date and the people who have actually followed this game will still be here. You are not saying anything new because you have nothing new to back up what you say. Believe what you want to believe, but stop trying to be a board warrior for a game that has a history of let downs. Your oppinion is not the only one out there and they are just as valid as yours.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
No, it's a PVP game, all that stuff with the exception of city-building is carebear BS. See this post.
So you are saying that all of that stuff isn't going to make it into release? I think you just proved my point
Pictures of a UI (Item/character stats) as you put it are purely cosmetic; they have nothing to do with real mechanics other than being linked to a character's health/mana/stamina pool.
You're really making a big deal out of the most trivial part of an MMO - the UI - and you're glossing over the really difficult stuff - the physics engine, the real-time combat, mounted combat, city building and sieging. There's a reason why there's no MMOs to date have had all these things - it's because they're hard.
These are the real meat of the game, if you're expecting a better WOW from Darkfall, then you're going to be disappointed... The "revoluionary features" of Darkfall are exactly those things (which no other MMOs currently have), so it's hardly surprising that that's what they are going to feature most.
Screenshots/videos of backbacks and health/mana bars going up and down are not exciting and every MMO is of course going to have those things... it goes without saying. I'm not at all surprised they haven't shown those things because a) they're so easy to code and b) their physics and combat systems are their best feature and the things that most distinguish Darkfall as a revolutionary MMO.
Hope this clears some things up for you.
I'm not going to deny that Darkfall has had more than its fair share of letdowns over the years, however the bottom line is that Darkfall is clearly going to be a better game for having revised and expanded its scope from the original 2003 and then 2006 near-releases, because it will have that many more features and better graphics. This much is clear through the much improved graphics in the past year, and the announcement of various new features that have been added in this time.
Dark'n'Light maybe could've been a great game had they had the luxury of holding back their release for another 2 years to complete their feature list. Age of Conan could've been a pretty decent game had they held back their release for another 6-12 months to fix all the bugs and missing/broken gameplay. I for one am glad that the Darkfall guys have the luxurious position of being well-funded enough to have taken their time to get things right.
Will it be the great PVP game so many of us have been waiting for for so long? Only time will tell, but were you able to look at the entirety of Darkfall from the perspective of someone who hasn't lived through the near-releases and all the waiting I think you'd probably agree that Darkfall looks every bit like the real-deal.
Since the UI is so easy, why dont you give the guys at Roma Victor some help. They are on their third one, and it is still clumsy and difficult to use. The UI is THE connection between the user and the game, and it is apparently not that easy to make it work well in all situations. If you are not aware, RV has very similar features to DF, so they should share much common ground in this area. Besides the games sharing some common ground, the dev teams seem similar too. RV is made by RedBedlam, a self-funded indie dev team making their own dream sandbox, though with a historical theme.
It isnt easy or trivial. But I will admit, anything they show us on a video will not be enough to get a feel for it. This is where they need playtesters, but I digress.
Pictures of a UI (Item/character stats) as you put it are purely cosmetic; they have nothing to do with real mechanics other than being linked to a character's health/mana/stamina pool.
So knowing if armor uses mitigation or avoidance is cosmetic? Knowing if items are stat or percent base is cosmetic? Knowing how many skills are actually in the game is cosmetic?
I can go on and on about how a peek at the UI can give INSIGHT on the game mechanics.
You're really making a big deal out of the most trivial part of an MMO - the UI - and you're glossing over the really difficult stuff - the physics engine, the real-time combat, mounted combat, city building and sieging. There's a reason why there's no MMOs to date have had all these things - it's because they're hard.
UI is important in that it is the gateway to controling your character. What if the game has no option to run at higher resolution? Many people would see that as a big deal. What if the guild UI was horrible and provided little to nothing? That would be a deal breaker for many guilds looking to move on to something new. Again the list goes on and on.
Where are the physics movies? Tasos claims that firing an arrow from a hill will make it travel farther... where IS that movie? no where to be seen. Nothing of the claimed physics engine has actually been shown. Nothing of the city building has been shown. We have seen static buildings, but they could be place there as part of the environment and not part of any mechanics in the game. Where is the actual movies of players fighting and dying... we have seen models with pretty particle affects, but that shows nothing of game mechanics.
These are the real meat of the game, if you're expecting a better WOW from Darkfall, then you're going to be disappointed... The "revoluionary features" of Darkfall are exactly those things (which no other MMOs currently have), so it's hardly surprising that that's what they are going to feature most.
I don't play WOW... that is you failing to argue your point and looking to slander my position through assumptions. To continue to do so is foolish. There are no revolutionary features in DF. Everything has been done in other games, what DF claims is that they will all now be in one game.
Call out a feature and I will name the game that does it.
Screenshots/videos of backbacks and health/mana bars going up and down are not exciting and every MMO is of course going to have those things... it goes without saying. I'm not at all surprised they haven't shown those things because a) they're so easy to code and b) their physics and combat systems are their best feature and the things that most distinguish Darkfall as a revolutionary MMO.
If every MMO has then... then they this game can hardly be called revolutionary can it. Guessing by your dismissive nature about coding pretty much proves you have never done it. At least not on the scale that a game developer has. Please don't claim otherwise... again it would sound foolish.
Hope this clears some things up for you.
It has been crystal clear to me for 4 years now. It is all of the 3 month woderkins that come on this board claiming DF is the second coming that seem to be the confused ones.
I'm not going to deny that Darkfall has had more than its fair share of letdowns over the years, however the bottom line is that Darkfall is clearly going to be a better game for having revised and expanded its scope from the original 2003 and then 2006 near-releases, because it will have that many more features and better graphics. This much is clear through the much improved graphics in the past year, and the announcement of various new features that have been added in this time.
What new features exactly? The site has not been updates since 2005. Anything that Tasos says is pure speculation as to the validity of truth. I can tell you my car gets 50 MPG, but it is not fact until I actually show some proof that it can. Same with DF... the concept is just fantastic, but the game is NOT the concept until there is proof, A hand full of short vids and screen shots are not proof for a game of this scale.
Dark'n'Light maybe could've been a great game had they had the luxury of holding back their release for another 2 years to complete their feature list. Age of Conan could've been a pretty decent game had they held back their release for another 6-12 months to fix all the bugs and missing/broken gameplay. I for one am glad that the Darkfall guys have the luxurious position of being well-funded enough to have taken their time to get things right.
No the chances are these games would never be great no matter how much time they were given because the mechanics of those games is flawed. Given enough time I could make a fancy package for a pile of crap, but at the end of the day what do I have... a pile of crap. That is why seeing the mechanics of DF is so important to validating the game. Why have they not in 6 years had a public display of the game. Not closed door "fanboy visitor" screenings... I mean Gaming convention 1000 people a day demos? EVERY game development company out there pushing a game out the door has time to send one lacky to do a presentation. Why not Adventurine?
Will it be the great PVP game so many of us have been waiting for for so long? Only time will tell, but were you able to look at the entirety of Darkfall from the perspective of someone who hasn't lived through the near-releases and all the waiting I think you'd probably agree that Darkfall looks every bit like the real-deal.
Again you are assuming... Anyone who takes the time to look through the site and has played enough MMOs before would be mildly optomistic. I still have hope for DF, I do not claim it is vaporware. I will probably be more happy then many of the fanboys at release because I have realistic expectations of the game. Everything that is being released about DF and how it is being released screams Shadowbane 2. The same rabid fanbase and dev cycle and many other simularities show up between DF and Shadowbane. I am expecting the same kind of release and the same kind of excuses after the fact. Time will tell... you have that right.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Pictures of a UI (Item/character stats) as you put it are purely cosmetic; they have nothing to do with real mechanics other than being linked to a character's health/mana/stamina pool.
So knowing if armor uses mitigation or avoidance is cosmetic? Knowing if items are stat or percent base is cosmetic? Knowing how many skills are actually in the game is cosmetic?
I can go on and on about how a peek at the UI can give INSIGHT on the game mechanics.
...but doesn't prove or disprove vapourware. you totally missed the point.
You're really making a big deal out of the most trivial part of an MMO - the UI - and you're glossing over the really difficult stuff - the physics engine, the real-time combat, mounted combat, city building and sieging. There's a reason why there's no MMOs to date have had all these things - it's because they're hard.
UI is important in that it is the gateway to controling your character. What if the game has no option to run at higher resolution? Many people would see that as a big deal. What if the guild UI was horrible and provided little to nothing? That would be a deal breaker for many guilds looking to move on to something new. Again the list goes on and on.
the option to run at different resolutions comes from the graphics library - OpenGL/DirectX - duh.
Where are the physics movies? Tasos claims that firing an arrow from a hill will make it travel farther... where IS that movie? no where to be seen. Nothing of the claimed physics engine has actually been shown. Nothing of the city building has been shown. We have seen static buildings, but they could be place there as part of the environment and not part of any mechanics in the game. Where is the actual movies of players fighting and dying... we have seen models with pretty particle affects, but that shows nothing of game mechanics.
No physics shown, how about: the visible knockback from mounted riders colliding? the kinetic knockback of players from a casted fireball? the movement of individual tree branches and grass in the wind? all of these things are clearly evident in the videos. or is the parabolic flight of an arrow the only thing you could think of when someone says physics?
Screenshots/videos of backbacks and health/mana bars going up and down are not exciting and every MMO is of course going to have those things... it goes without saying. I'm not at all surprised they haven't shown those things because a) they're so easy to code and b) their physics and combat systems are their best feature and the things that most distinguish Darkfall as a revolutionary MMO.
If every MMO has then... then they this game can hardly be called revolutionary can it. Guessing by your dismissive nature about coding pretty much proves you have never done it. At least not on the scale that a game developer has. Please don't claim otherwise... again it would sound foolish.
Hope this clears some things up for you.
It has been crystal clear to me for 4 years now. It is all of the 3 month woderkins that come on this board claiming DF is the second coming that seem to be the confused ones.
..and yet the game keeps going, with no signs of stopping, and all signs of releasing. the reason why people don't hang around is because it becomes clear very quickly they're dealing with irrational idiots.
I'm not going to deny that Darkfall has had more than its fair share of letdowns over the years, however the bottom line is that Darkfall is clearly going to be a better game for having revised and expanded its scope from the original 2003 and then 2006 near-releases, because it will have that many more features and better graphics. This much is clear through the much improved graphics in the past year, and the announcement of various new features that have been added in this time.
What new features exactly? The site has not been updates since 2005. Anything that Tasos says is pure speculation as to the validity of truth. I can tell you my car gets 50 MPG, but it is not fact until I actually show some proof that it can. Same with DF... the concept is just fantastic, but the game is NOT the concept until there is proof, A hand full of short vids and screen shots are not proof for a game of this scale.
hasn't had updates? what? are people seriously this lazy and stupid to be able to open a website and spend 30 seconds looking for new material. man oh man.
Dark'n'Light maybe could've been a great game had they had the luxury of holding back their release for another 2 years to complete their feature list. Age of Conan could've been a pretty decent game had they held back their release for another 6-12 months to fix all the bugs and missing/broken gameplay. I for one am glad that the Darkfall guys have the luxurious position of being well-funded enough to have taken their time to get things right.
No the chances are these games would never be great no matter how much time they were given because the mechanics of those games is flawed. Given enough time I could make a fancy package for a pile of crap, but at the end of the day what do I have... a pile of crap. That is why seeing the mechanics of DF is so important to validating the game. Why have they not in 6 years had a public display of the game. Not closed door "fanboy visitor" screenings... I mean Gaming convention 1000 people a day demos? EVERY game development company out there pushing a game out the door has time to send one lacky to do a presentation. Why not Adventurine?
if you can't see what the game is about from the videos and the style of gameplay that's going to be there then it's not Aventurine's fault.