Yes WoW is great game, but there is just one bad thing about it: its commercial. For me WoW is like pop music - almost any other P2P game is more valuable even not so polished.
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration ______\m/_____ LordOfDarkDesire
Originally posted by SignusM You haven't named a single feature that wasn't in just about every MMO before and after WoW, nothing special there. And you mentioned performance like 3 times.
Sure, most games have PvP for example, but is the PvP in EQ2 really worth mentioning compared to WoW? Blizzard did so many things 'right' in their game which is why you can list things that are indeed in many games, but collectively don't deliver.
A game doesn't need a huge list of innovations and unique features to be done well or done better than the majority of games on the market. Esepcially when you consider that it does almost all of the items on a list of features better -collectively- than any other game.
You haven't named a single feature that wasn't in just about every MMO before and after WoW, nothing special there. And you mentioned performance like 3 times.
Well you kinda missed the point. Someone else had posted a list of reasons why they thought WoW sucked, so I decided to post a list of reasons of why I think WoW doesn't suck. I didn't say these things made WoW better than any other MMO, only that it didn't suck. It was never meant to be a comparison of WoW to all other MMO's and show why it's superior, that's something that you and a few others have read into it because of your biased feelings toward WoW. You come here looking for something to shoot down and as soon as you see a positive post you instantly begin to shoot it down without even considering what the post is about. I'm sorry that you can't read a single positive thing about WoW without feeling compelled to argue with it.
I only mentioned performance once so your attempt to undermine my post was a poor attempt at that.
Learn from others (i.e. use what works, change or scrap what doesn't)
Low system specs - available for everyone
Polish - WoW worked well from the start, especially compared to other MMOGs
Solo friendly
Simple and intuitive user interface
Content, content and more content
Strong (and versatile) PvP
Tune for the regular players, not the hardcore players
Don't promise stuff to keep people hanging (e.g. Blizzard doesn't give ETAs or look many patches ahead)
Few and distinct (but all good) choices
Gentle learning curve
It's Blizzard
Now, several of the points above will likely have some people go "no f*ing way WoW did/does that well". I encourage those people to go tell Mr. Walton - who surely has no more experience than you in game development and analysis - how mistaken he is, so he can make sure BioWare's MMOG doesn't fail (you) the way WoW did. ;-)
Learn from others (i.e. use what works, change or scrap what doesn't) Low system specs - available for everyone Polish - WoW worked well from the start, especially compared to other MMOGs Solo friendly Simple and intuitive user interface Content, content and more content Strong (and versatile) PvP Tune for the regular players, not the hardcore players Don't promise stuff to keep people hanging (e.g. Blizzard doesn't give ETAs or look many patches ahead) Few and distinct (but all good) choices Gentle learning curve It's Blizzard
Now, several of the points above will likely have some people go "no f*ing way WoW did/does that well". I encourage those people to go tell Mr. Walton - who surely has no more experience than you in game development and analysis - how mistaken he is, so he can make sure BioWare's MMOG doesn't fail (you) the way WoW did. ;-)
Very nicely done, however I'd change one thing. 12 I think should more rightfully say something like brand name counts. If you release something less than stellar, you might not just be sacrificing the success of that piece of software, but also the next piece of software you put out. People remember and are unwilling to take another chance with your software, so get it right the first time, no matter what it costs.
Learn from others (i.e. use what works, change or scrap what doesn't) Low system specs - available for everyone Polish - WoW worked well from the start, especially compared to other MMOGs Solo friendly Simple and intuitive user interface Content, content and more content Strong (and versatile) PvP Tune for the regular players, not the hardcore players Don't promise stuff to keep people hanging (e.g. Blizzard doesn't give ETAs or look many patches ahead) Few and distinct (but all good) choices Gentle learning curve It's Blizzard
Now, several of the points above will likely have some people go "no f*ing way WoW did/does that well". I encourage those people to go tell Mr. Walton - who surely has no more experience than you in game development and analysis - how mistaken he is, so he can make sure BioWare's MMOG doesn't fail (you) the way WoW did. ;-)
That's a very good list right there. Never heard of Gordon Walton in the gaming industry until I saw this post but it seems he does know what he's doing when it comes to making a successful MMOG (at least for what they're planning with their new MMOG).
Learn from others (i.e. use what works, change or scrap what doesn't) Low system specs - available for everyone Polish - WoW worked well from the start, especially compared to other MMOGs Solo friendly Simple and intuitive user interface Content, content and more content Strong (and versatile) PvP Tune for the regular players, not the hardcore players Don't promise stuff to keep people hanging (e.g. Blizzard doesn't give ETAs or look many patches ahead) Few and distinct (but all good) choices Gentle learning curve It's Blizzard
Now, several of the points above will likely have some people go "no f*ing way WoW did/does that well". I encourage those people to go tell Mr. Walton - who surely has no more experience than you in game development and analysis - how mistaken he is, so he can make sure BioWare's MMOG doesn't fail (you) the way WoW did. ;-)
I agree with those except #3, I don't think WoW was very polished at the start, even compared to other games, and if I could ask Mr. Walton I would but I don't see that happening. In any case if you just take the point as "make the game polished from the start" than i like all 12.
Yet even if you think that WoW was polished from the start that really isin't a positive point about the game. That's like saying "WoW is a good game because the level 60 raids are really fun." That's a true point in my opinion but no one does level 60 raids and if they do it isin't the same as pre BC. That point and the point about WoW being polished from the get go are both pretty irrelevant in that no one is going to change their opinion on WoW or go and play WoW because of how the game performed years ago.
It's a good point for future developers but a weak point to give on how WoW is a good game.
Pretty much everything you listed can be said about almost any modern MMO, so I don't see how those positive WOW points are really relevant to just WOW. WOW is "better" on a few points, but other games are better than WOW on others. EQ2 for example has far more content. LOTRO adds more new content quite often.
The one single thing that WOW has going for it is lots of people playing, which tends to feed on itself, and which has hurt some other games that are just as good or even better.
Laiina you can't really pick and choose a separate game to compare to each bullet point about one game. Anyhow, comparisons like that will just produce skewed views. Sure there are plenty of games that do one thing much better than WoW does [or most any game for that matter], but overall when looking at everything a game has to offer is where WoW shines.
Comparing all the points between two games is more accurate. You point out EQ2 as having more content, but even John Smedley has stated that quality of that content has suffered at the speed with which they put it out. In this case Quantity isn't better than quality if you will. Instead of going down the list to compare EQ2s free content vs WoW you skip to LOTRO, because EQ2 is very weak in free content or free anything for that matter.
You say that the only thing WoW has going for it is lots of people play it and that tends to feed on itself. EQ2 had lots of people playing it at launch, but it lost about half of its subscribers soon after, because there is more to a game than how many people play it. It isn't as if people only play WoW because millions of others do, there is some substance to the gameplay underneath all the quick dismissal of the game itself.
Not that this thread was really about which games are better, but it is hard to have a mmo discussion without someone bringing up WoW,etc. I'm guilty.
Originally posted by Pappy13 Very nicely done, however I'd change one thing. 12 I think should more rightfully say something like brand name counts. If you release something less than stellar, you might not just be sacrificing the success of that piece of software, but also the next piece of software you put out. People remember and are unwilling to take another chance with your software, so get it right the first time, no matter what it costs.
I definitely agree. The point from Gordon Walton is that Blizzard has always done this, so their reputation from other titles worked for them - and still does - with WoW.
Originally posted by Chudster91 I agree with those except #3, I don't think WoW was very polished at the start, even compared to other games, and if I could ask Mr. Walton I would but I don't see that happening. In any case if you just take the point as "make the game polished from the start" than i like all 12.
I probably simplified it a bit wrong. The way you say it is how it should be. :-)
Doesnt the fact that there needs to be a list of reasons why WoW doesnt suck mean that it sucks? Who is this trying to convince i wonder?
No it doesn't. It means it's a response to the thread "Short list of reasons why WoW sucks". That' is the reason for this thread. This thread doesn't exist because it needs to, it exists because that other thread exists. Nothing more.
It's not trying to convince anyone of anything. I just got tired of seeing people come into the WoW forums and bash the game in that thread and thought maybe there should be a thread for those of us that like that game where we could post our opinions. Apparently you are in the wrong thread
Pretty much everything you listed can be said about almost any modern MMO, so I don't see how those positive WOW points are really relevant to just WOW. They aren't. I never insinuated they ONLY pertained to WoW. If you would have read the whole thread rather than just posting you would have found that the motivation for producing this list was the thread entitled "Short list of why WoW sucks". This thread was my response to that thread. He listed his reasons why he thought it sucked and I listed my reasons why I think it doesn't suck. WOW is "better" on a few points, but other games are better than WOW on others. EQ2 for example has far more content. LOTRO adds more new content quite often. No one is claiming that WoW is better on every point, only that WoW doesn't suck. Do you agree? The one single thing that WOW has going for it is lots of people playing, which tends to feed on itself, and which has hurt some other games that are just as good or even better. Now see you were doing so good up until this line. How is it that you can go from "WoW is better on a few points" to "The one single thing that WoW has going for it...". You just contradicted yourself right there. This is what far too many people do. They throw out all arguments and boil it down to 1 simple thing like it's popularity and claim that's ALL that WoW has when CLEARLY it's MORE than just that. THAT is the exact point I was trying to make with this thread. Thanks for highlighting it.
Learn from others (i.e. use what works, change or scrap what doesn't) Low system specs - available for everyone Polish - WoW worked well from the start, especially compared to other MMOGs Solo friendly Simple and intuitive user interface Content, content and more content Strong (and versatile) PvP Tune for the regular players, not the hardcore players Don't promise stuff to keep people hanging (e.g. Blizzard doesn't give ETAs or look many patches ahead) Few and distinct (but all good) choices Gentle learning curve It's Blizzard
Now, several of the points above will likely have some people go "no f*ing way WoW did/does that well". I encourage those people to go tell Mr. Walton - who surely has no more experience than you in game development and analysis - how mistaken he is, so he can make sure BioWare's MMOG doesn't fail (you) the way WoW did. ;-)
Who am I to comment on a director of BioWare.
But you never know... I've seen other directors make mistakes (FunCom?).
I think he needs to add 3 more things in his upcoming project/
13. Reward the players. So much people work hard every day and never get rewarded in RL. See also pt 8. People talking of "punishing" players who lose a battle haven't gotten a clue.
14. Create a very good economy with a central auction house where the players create the economic tension and NOT the NPC's.
15. Use the NPC's only as a theater piece. Let the players be the heroes - never run the story beyond the players - (LOTRO) In Wow it means: players are IN the role of heroes, the world serves THEM. Not the other way around (last argument is VERY important why PERSONAL gear is such a success compared to guild honor) ...... think ..... think....
I got tired of seeing that "other" thread so I'm starting a new one. If you like the game, feel free to post your comments here instead of in that "other" thread. 1) Everyone can play it. You don't need a new PC to play it, you don't even need a new graphics card and you can still get a decent framerate. 2) It works. I don't crash to desktop. The quests can all be completed. If I actually have an issue like accidentally giving a bind on pickup item to the wrong person in Kara or accidentally deleting the wrong character, I can open a ticket and it will be fixed usually within an hour or 2. 3) It's kept up to date. Patches come out every month or 2 that add additional content, update the interface, add new features, etc. Every couple years a new expansion comes out with a bunch of new content, new races, new classes, new professions, new skills etc. 4) Servers are always active. Everytime I log in there's tons of people in game. I have a list of about 20 friends and there's almost always somebody playing. I put stuff up on the AH and within 48 hours it's sold. If I need something, I can search the AH and find it. 5) It's complete. For PvE there's role playing, questing, raiding, professions, trading and reputation rewards. For PvP there's battlegrounds, dueling, arenas, world PvP and tournament play. 6) It's user friendly. I can play alone or in a group up equally well and both offer great rewards. There are no harsh penalties for getting killed which means I don't spend a bunch of time trying to reacquire something I've already acquired. Leveling up doesn't take a lot of time so I always feel like I'm progressing even if I can only spend a couple hours a week playing. 7) It's fun. Lots of little extra's are added like holidays, world events, the faire, and a fishing tournament. 8) It's beautiful. Whether you are 5 or 75 you can appreciate a world filled with knights, damsels in distress, dragons, sorcerers, magic, dark castles, earie graveyards, majestic mountains, breathtaking waterfalls, zeppelin rides, vast oceans, etc. 9) It's addicting. Whether you are just a casual player or a hard core raider it will keep you entertained for hours and keep you wanting to come back for more. 10) It's cheap. It costs about the same to play WoW for a month that it does to go see a 2 hour movie, buy a soda and popcorn and pay for the gas there and back and I never have to leave the comfort of my own house. For entertainment value it's hard to beat.
Well what can I say?
Imo the game is ugly and boring lacks funfactor simply boring.
It's the Wal-Mart of MMOs. It's big, it attracts tons of customers, and, more often than not, smaller games don't get a chance to really flourish because of it. Though I believe you meant "Bind on Pickup", because you can trade Bind on Equip items.
Smaller games have their chance and nothing is stopping them. It isn't like Warcraft is undercutting the small MMOs by lowering prices to unheard of levels because of their huge buying power. Anyone can make a game that is successful if they put the time into it. The only thing stopping the smaller [or any other] company is themselves. Other games aren't "flourishing", because people are getting sick and tired of half finished games getting released with flawed/rushed game designs. Why pay to beta test a game when you can play a well designed and finshed MMO?
Your analogy doesn't compare similar products which is why it fails, like most analogies do.
The analogy was good... Walmart shoppers = WoW Gamers.
Walmart shoppers do not drive down the street to try a new store = WoW gamers playing WoW even when they have 8 toons in tier 5 gear waiting 1.5 years between expansions but still play WoW.
This is why small games don't get a chance: If you can get everything you need from Walmart or WoW, why should you have to go anywhere else? Be a lemming like the rest of your town
My 9 year old nephew can play it, so it's child friendly. Cartoony graphics and bright colors also appeal to children. My friend's whole family is in the same guild. And you get to rob children of their innocence when you have sick idiots running around asking everyone to cyber. My wife gets asked at least once a night while in the AH if she's willing to cyber. WoW is a haven for online predators because the game is so simple to play. I'd rather my children play almost anything besides WoW.
Tons of repeatable daily quests available to extend the threadmill and get more gold. You can make upwards of 50$/day selling gold which beats a real job. Gold farming for real money is never a good thing. You obviously don't have a family if $50 a day makes you content.
Item based progression means that you continually have to update items. Expansions wipes the slate clean so that everyone can get better epics in 2 weeks no matter how good your past gear was. This evens and resets the playing field every expansion. I've witnessed this as upsetting more people than it benefits.
Doesnt the fact that there needs to be a list of reasons why WoW doesnt suck mean that it sucks? Who is this trying to convince i wonder?
No it doesn't. It means it's a response to the thread "Short list of reasons why WoW sucks". That' is the reason for this thread. This thread doesn't exist because it needs to, it exists because that other thread exists. Nothing more.
It's not trying to convince anyone of anything. I just got tired of seeing people come into the WoW forums and bash the game in that thread and thought maybe there should be a thread for those of us that like that game where we could post our opinions. Apparently you are in the wrong thread
So its needed to convince people the other way from the "WoW sucks thread". Apparently I am in the right thread
Laiina you can't really pick and choose a separate game to compare to each bullet point about one game. Anyhow, comparisons like that will just produce skewed views. Sure there are plenty of games that do one thing much better than WoW does [or most any game for that matter], but overall when looking at everything a game has to offer is where WoW shines. I don't agree that WOW shines any more than several other games in any but 1 or 2 of the points (and I have played about 8, starting with Meridian 59). I could post that list in half a dozen other forums and it would be correct - with the possible exception of the single most important factor - it's popularity means that there are more people playing it at any one time. Comparing all the points between two games is more accurate. You point out EQ2 as having more content, but even John Smedley has stated that quality of that content has suffered at the speed with which they put it out. In this case Quantity isn't better than quality if you will. Instead of going down the list to compare EQ2s free content vs WoW you skip to LOTRO, because EQ2 is very weak in free content or free anything for that matter. You are about 3 years behind the curve on that one. EQ2 has added far more content, and far more free content that WOW. EQ2 has put out free game updates now almost every single month - the next one next week will be GU47. How many major free updates has WOW had? The statement that Smedley made was over 3 years ago. LOTRO has also added a lot more free (and much more frequent) content. In fact I would say that WOW would be pressed to make #5 on the list of new content. You say that the only thing WoW has going for it is lots of people play it and that tends to feed on itself. EQ2 had lots of people playing it at launch, but it lost about half of its subscribers soon after, because there is more to a game than how many people play it. It isn't as if people only play WoW because millions of others do, there is some substance to the gameplay underneath all the quick dismissal of the game itself. The history of WOW almost automatically gave it a huge player base to start with, since it had some 30 million Diablo fans to draw from. The one point that I will concede that WOW did better than any other game is marketing and publicity. They recognized that most people do not really want a "hard" game, like EQ1 or VG - and they made the graphic standards low enough so you could run it on any machine less than 6 years old. And just for the record, almost every new game out there - including WOW - lost/loses a large portion of it's initial subscribers. Some are much worse, supposedly AoC lost about 2/3 in the first month. And I did not "dismiss" the game. I stated that WOW - like almost any other halfway viable MMO now out there shares about 90% of any points you can make about it. Personally I find WOW a bit simplistic, but I also no longer have the time to stay up until 2am on 6 hour EQ1 raids. WOW is a great game for the more casual player - which is probably 90% of the player base. I can play WOW and have fun - but I don't kid myself that it is any kind of an intellectual challenge either. And to be honest, I am rather burned out on the whole fantasy game genre having played them for almost 10 years off and on. I tend to look much more critically at any game than I would have a few years ago. But until something really different comes out, we are all pretty much stuck with the likes of WOW, EQ, LOTRO, and similar Tolkien based games unless we want to play EVE Online.
Nice job on your post OP.....I think we all do tend to only see the negative side of MMOs........Though I am not playing WoW anymore I would have to agree that your list of 10 is pretty much accurate......
Laiina, I'm all ears about another game that stacks up to WoW. It isn't popular because of marketing, advertising or previous fan base. Sure that helped momentum, but EQ2 had the similar situations and launched at the same time. One game was adding servers as fast as they could buy hardware and the other was merging them. That doesn't sound like games with similar strengths and features to me.
A game needs to be good to retain players. Why so many people ignore that I don't know. If there were so many other games that were as good as WoW in so many varied areas then people would naturally gravtiate to them as they churn out of Warcraft. That hasn't happened, because the simple fact is most games do not measure up. I've heard all the justifications, but if a game is entertaining and as well rounded as WoW people will play it, but they haven't. I've been around the block just like you and wish there were more quality games out. Many people are just waiting for "the next game" so it isn't like people are unwilling to change games. Yet they don't, why do you think that is?
I'm not just making this stuff up. SOE has a long ugly history of rushing content out the door to meet some preset deadline and the quality lacks. I played long enough on the EQ2 test servers and saw it first hand. That is why I say quantity isn't greater than quality here. Sure Blizzard is slow to release their content, but that is because they take the time to make it release worthy. I can only say that about a small amount of game companies right now. Heck go look at the conan forums for proof of that right now.
I would wager WoW has had about a dozen major free content update and a few dozen more small ones. When I actually cared about EQ2 the real content patches on par with WoW cost 5.95-7.95 dollars and were so buggy/rushed out they disrupted gameplay more than they helped. I don't really know if EQ2 adds dungeons, raids zones and the like for free these days. I've heard they recently added a whole newbie city though. Then again they are practically giving away the game and expansions for free to try to get subscribers these days. Again not something I would expect from a game that stacks up similarly to another game that is still breaking top ten sales lists.
Originally posted by Vicksburg 15. Use the NPC's only as a theater piece. Let the players be the heroes - never run the story beyond the players - (LOTRO) In Wow it means: players are IN the role of heroes, the world serves THEM. Not the other way around (last argument is VERY important why PERSONAL gear is such a success compared to guild honor) ...... think ..... think....
Basically you can do this better with a offline game. Its a waste try to do this in a MMORPG.
Just check WoW... Everybody start with a long levelling jorney where there is many content who nobody have time to go. Who will waste time with outdated content if all good stuff is in end game?
Everybody uses the same stuff and you should not customize your character wears (everybody should use tier to become competitive).
Everybody should start a endless gear grinding after the long leveling jorney (normally without enjoy the lore).
Everybody craft and sell/buy the same stuff and should not waste time outdated material (it doesnt pay as its supose to). WoW economy is a black hole (even in highest levels) and it was designed to be it.
Everybody is supose to be "the hero" but nobody becomes a hero in the end. I dont know about you but glowing armors or weapons doent make me feel a "hero" and WoW storyline is far from "epic" to me.
Basically you can do this better with a offline game. Its a waste try to do this in a MMORPG. Just check WoW... Everybody start with a long levelling jorney where there is many content who nobody have time to go. Who will waste time with outdated content if all good stuff is in end game? Everybody uses the same stuff and you should not customize your character wears (everybody should use tier to become competitive). Everybody should start a endless gear grinding after the long leveling jorney (normally without enjoy the lore). Everybody craft and sell/buy the same stuff and should not waste time outdated material (it doesnt pay as its supose to). WoW economy is a black hole (even in highest levels) and it was designed to be it. Everybody is supose to be "the hero" but nobody becomes a hero in the end. I dont know about you but glowing armors or weapons doent make me feel a "hero" and WoW storyline is far from "epic" to me.
There are now MORE than 30.000 items for use in Wow.
A look at the auction House with tens of thousands different articles in it, show you Sir don't even play Wow in a serious matter.
Just an INDEPENDANT reference:
"The battle for Azeroth" a compilation book of articles made by some of the best writers/authorities .
Quote" ... Azaroth has an economy Alan Greenspan would be proud of, from supply and demand to buying and selling ... "
I am making 400 Gold each week by merely selling the highest crafted scope in the game.
And it is a known fact engineering is NOT there to make money ))
Crafted items are just one or two levels behind the highest possible drops in the raids and as only 2 or 3 percent can make it to this content, the crafting economy works perfectly.
But of course you need to play Wow NOW and not talk of yesterday.
Comments
Yes WoW is great game, but there is just one bad thing about it: its commercial. For me WoW is like pop music - almost any other P2P game is more valuable even not so polished.
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration
______\m/_____
LordOfDarkDesire
Sure, most games have PvP for example, but is the PvP in EQ2 really worth mentioning compared to WoW? Blizzard did so many things 'right' in their game which is why you can list things that are indeed in many games, but collectively don't deliver.
A game doesn't need a huge list of innovations and unique features to be done well or done better than the majority of games on the market. Esepcially when you consider that it does almost all of the items on a list of features better -collectively- than any other game.
Well you kinda missed the point. Someone else had posted a list of reasons why they thought WoW sucked, so I decided to post a list of reasons of why I think WoW doesn't suck. I didn't say these things made WoW better than any other MMO, only that it didn't suck. It was never meant to be a comparison of WoW to all other MMO's and show why it's superior, that's something that you and a few others have read into it because of your biased feelings toward WoW. You come here looking for something to shoot down and as soon as you see a positive post you instantly begin to shoot it down without even considering what the post is about. I'm sorry that you can't read a single positive thing about WoW without feeling compelled to argue with it.
I only mentioned performance once so your attempt to undermine my post was a poor attempt at that.
12 reasons/lessons for others by Gordon Walton, co-studio director at BioWare Austin: (simplified)
Now, several of the points above will likely have some people go "no f*ing way WoW did/does that well". I encourage those people to go tell Mr. Walton - who surely has no more experience than you in game development and analysis - how mistaken he is, so he can make sure BioWare's MMOG doesn't fail (you) the way WoW did. ;-)
Very nicely done, however I'd change one thing. 12 I think should more rightfully say something like brand name counts. If you release something less than stellar, you might not just be sacrificing the success of that piece of software, but also the next piece of software you put out. People remember and are unwilling to take another chance with your software, so get it right the first time, no matter what it costs.
That's a very good list right there. Never heard of Gordon Walton in the gaming industry until I saw this post but it seems he does know what he's doing when it comes to making a successful MMOG (at least for what they're planning with their new MMOG).
I agree with those except #3, I don't think WoW was very polished at the start, even compared to other games, and if I could ask Mr. Walton I would but I don't see that happening. In any case if you just take the point as "make the game polished from the start" than i like all 12.
Yet even if you think that WoW was polished from the start that really isin't a positive point about the game. That's like saying "WoW is a good game because the level 60 raids are really fun." That's a true point in my opinion but no one does level 60 raids and if they do it isin't the same as pre BC. That point and the point about WoW being polished from the get go are both pretty irrelevant in that no one is going to change their opinion on WoW or go and play WoW because of how the game performed years ago.
It's a good point for future developers but a weak point to give on how WoW is a good game.
Doesnt the fact that there needs to be a list of reasons why WoW doesnt suck mean that it sucks? Who is this trying to convince i wonder?
I agree that this is a good game that can hook you up for a long time.
However, this is also the game that needs theads like this the least.
Pretty much everything you listed can be said about almost any modern MMO, so I don't see how those positive WOW points are really relevant to just WOW. WOW is "better" on a few points, but other games are better than WOW on others. EQ2 for example has far more content. LOTRO adds more new content quite often.
The one single thing that WOW has going for it is lots of people playing, which tends to feed on itself, and which has hurt some other games that are just as good or even better.
Laiina you can't really pick and choose a separate game to compare to each bullet point about one game. Anyhow, comparisons like that will just produce skewed views. Sure there are plenty of games that do one thing much better than WoW does [or most any game for that matter], but overall when looking at everything a game has to offer is where WoW shines.
Comparing all the points between two games is more accurate. You point out EQ2 as having more content, but even John Smedley has stated that quality of that content has suffered at the speed with which they put it out. In this case Quantity isn't better than quality if you will. Instead of going down the list to compare EQ2s free content vs WoW you skip to LOTRO, because EQ2 is very weak in free content or free anything for that matter.
You say that the only thing WoW has going for it is lots of people play it and that tends to feed on itself. EQ2 had lots of people playing it at launch, but it lost about half of its subscribers soon after, because there is more to a game than how many people play it. It isn't as if people only play WoW because millions of others do, there is some substance to the gameplay underneath all the quick dismissal of the game itself.
Not that this thread was really about which games are better, but it is hard to have a mmo discussion without someone bringing up WoW,etc. I'm guilty.
I definitely agree. The point from Gordon Walton is that Blizzard has always done this, so their reputation from other titles worked for them - and still does - with WoW.
I probably simplified it a bit wrong. The way you say it is how it should be. :-)
No it doesn't. It means it's a response to the thread "Short list of reasons why WoW sucks". That' is the reason for this thread. This thread doesn't exist because it needs to, it exists because that other thread exists. Nothing more.
It's not trying to convince anyone of anything. I just got tired of seeing people come into the WoW forums and bash the game in that thread and thought maybe there should be a thread for those of us that like that game where we could post our opinions. Apparently you are in the wrong thread
Since when does Blizzard add content to WoW every 1-2 months? The OPer is on some seriously, SERIOUSLY f'ing good drugs.
Yes, WoW is sometimes fun, but the further away from launch or expansion release...it get boring AS HELL.
Who am I to comment on a director of BioWare.
But you never know... I've seen other directors make mistakes (FunCom?).
I think he needs to add 3 more things in his upcoming project/
13. Reward the players. So much people work hard every day and never get rewarded in RL. See also pt 8. People talking of "punishing" players who lose a battle haven't gotten a clue.
14. Create a very good economy with a central auction house where the players create the economic tension and NOT the NPC's.
15. Use the NPC's only as a theater piece. Let the players be the heroes - never run the story beyond the players - (LOTRO) In Wow it means: players are IN the role of heroes, the world serves THEM. Not the other way around (last argument is VERY important why PERSONAL gear is such a success compared to guild honor) ...... think ..... think....
Well what can I say?
Imo the game is ugly and boring lacks funfactor simply boring.
Smaller games have their chance and nothing is stopping them. It isn't like Warcraft is undercutting the small MMOs by lowering prices to unheard of levels because of their huge buying power. Anyone can make a game that is successful if they put the time into it. The only thing stopping the smaller [or any other] company is themselves. Other games aren't "flourishing", because people are getting sick and tired of half finished games getting released with flawed/rushed game designs. Why pay to beta test a game when you can play a well designed and finshed MMO?
Your analogy doesn't compare similar products which is why it fails, like most analogies do.
The analogy was good... Walmart shoppers = WoW Gamers.
Walmart shoppers do not drive down the street to try a new store = WoW gamers playing WoW even when they have 8 toons in tier 5 gear waiting 1.5 years between expansions but still play WoW.
This is why small games don't get a chance: If you can get everything you need from Walmart or WoW, why should you have to go anywhere else? Be a lemming like the rest of your town
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No it doesn't. It means it's a response to the thread "Short list of reasons why WoW sucks". That' is the reason for this thread. This thread doesn't exist because it needs to, it exists because that other thread exists. Nothing more.
It's not trying to convince anyone of anything. I just got tired of seeing people come into the WoW forums and bash the game in that thread and thought maybe there should be a thread for those of us that like that game where we could post our opinions. Apparently you are in the wrong thread
So its needed to convince people the other way from the "WoW sucks thread". Apparently I am in the right thread
Nice job on your post OP.....I think we all do tend to only see the negative side of MMOs........Though I am not playing WoW anymore I would have to agree that your list of 10 is pretty much accurate......
Laiina, I'm all ears about another game that stacks up to WoW. It isn't popular because of marketing, advertising or previous fan base. Sure that helped momentum, but EQ2 had the similar situations and launched at the same time. One game was adding servers as fast as they could buy hardware and the other was merging them. That doesn't sound like games with similar strengths and features to me.
A game needs to be good to retain players. Why so many people ignore that I don't know. If there were so many other games that were as good as WoW in so many varied areas then people would naturally gravtiate to them as they churn out of Warcraft. That hasn't happened, because the simple fact is most games do not measure up. I've heard all the justifications, but if a game is entertaining and as well rounded as WoW people will play it, but they haven't. I've been around the block just like you and wish there were more quality games out. Many people are just waiting for "the next game" so it isn't like people are unwilling to change games. Yet they don't, why do you think that is?
As for my Smedly comment being three years old, you are incorrect. Smed made that comment January of THIS year. www.massively.com/2008/01/14/a-ces-interview-with-soe-ceo-john-smedley-pt-2/
I'm not just making this stuff up. SOE has a long ugly history of rushing content out the door to meet some preset deadline and the quality lacks. I played long enough on the EQ2 test servers and saw it first hand. That is why I say quantity isn't greater than quality here. Sure Blizzard is slow to release their content, but that is because they take the time to make it release worthy. I can only say that about a small amount of game companies right now. Heck go look at the conan forums for proof of that right now.
I would wager WoW has had about a dozen major free content update and a few dozen more small ones. When I actually cared about EQ2 the real content patches on par with WoW cost 5.95-7.95 dollars and were so buggy/rushed out they disrupted gameplay more than they helped. I don't really know if EQ2 adds dungeons, raids zones and the like for free these days. I've heard they recently added a whole newbie city though.
Then again they are practically giving away the game and expansions for free to try to get subscribers these days. Again not something I would expect from a game that stacks up similarly to another game that is still breaking top ten sales lists.
Basically you can do this better with a offline game. Its a waste try to do this in a MMORPG.
Just check WoW... Everybody start with a long levelling jorney where there is many content who nobody have time to go. Who will waste time with outdated content if all good stuff is in end game?
Everybody uses the same stuff and you should not customize your character wears (everybody should use tier to become competitive).
Everybody should start a endless gear grinding after the long leveling jorney (normally without enjoy the lore).
Everybody craft and sell/buy the same stuff and should not waste time outdated material (it doesnt pay as its supose to). WoW economy is a black hole (even in highest levels) and it was designed to be it.
Everybody is supose to be "the hero" but nobody becomes a hero in the end. I dont know about you but glowing armors or weapons doent make me feel a "hero" and WoW storyline is far from "epic" to me.
There are now MORE than 30.000 items for use in Wow.
A look at the auction House with tens of thousands different articles in it, show you Sir don't even play Wow in a serious matter.
Just an INDEPENDANT reference:
"The battle for Azeroth" a compilation book of articles made by some of the best writers/authorities .
Quote" ... Azaroth has an economy Alan Greenspan would be proud of, from supply and demand to buying and selling ... "
I am making 400 Gold each week by merely selling the highest crafted scope in the game.
And it is a known fact engineering is NOT there to make money
))
Crafted items are just one or two levels behind the highest possible drops in the raids and as only 2 or 3 percent can make it to this content, the crafting economy works perfectly.
But of course you need to play Wow NOW and not talk of yesterday.