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Why do people have to be ostracized simply for stating their opinion?
Zindaihas
Member UncommonPosts: 3,662
So I saw this video posted on Yahoo's homepage about this girl, Brooke Hogan. I had no idea who she was, but then I learned she is the daughter of Hulk Hogan. She apparently is also a singer, though I don't know if she is a good one. She also happens to not be too bad looking.
Anyway, she recently commented (on video no less) that she doesn't believe that a woman would make a good president because among other things, women are too emotional. Ok, fine. Her opinion is open for debate. But now, she is going to be completely shunned, her comments may even end up hurting her career. Why should this be? All she did is said what she thinks. Feel free to disagree with it all you want. Refute it with evidence if you want. But don't try to ruin her life simply for stating an opinion. Verbal attacks on her are an emotional reaction, not an intellectual one.
Comments
I have no particular interest in Brookes comment(doesn't even merit mention in the news really) but as for the question asked in the title, its because opinions may be mind blowingly stupid and obviously not based in fact. If someone expressed to me the proposition that Blacks are incapable of racism(heard it before) I will naturally refute the illogical nature of that and express in no uncertain terms my complete contempt for the person who would make such an faulty argument
If you are not being responded to directly, you are probably on my ignore list.
Instead of expressing complete contempt for a person, why not state your argument in an intelligent and understandable way, then sit back and have some patience with that person.
I have found that it takes time for folks to come around. There are times when a persons emotions, pride, humility, whatever it the case, causes them to put up a wall to change at the point you are presenting your side of something. But if you let them go somewhere and think about what you've said, and also give them the respect that they deserve, a lot of times they will come to you later and admit their mistake. Especially if they feel comfortable in admitting it.
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All Rights Reversed
Instead of expressing complete contempt for a person, why not state your argument in an intelligent and understandable way, then sit back and have some patience with that person.
I have found that it takes time for folks to come around. There are times when a persons emotions, pride, humility, whatever it the case, causes them to put up a wall to change at the point you are presenting your side of something. But if you let them go somewhere and think about what you've said, and also give them the respect that they deserve, a lot of times they will come to you later and admit their mistake. Especially if they feel comfortable in admitting it.
I've highlighted the portion that addresses the first part of your question. As for the second part, exposing factual or logical errors (whether expressed with contempt or not) is compelling enough in its own right. The workplace I have is proof enough for me in that regard as you fix the mistake or you lose your job. Its unforgiving but its a living.
If you are not being responded to directly, you are probably on my ignore list.
I think it is more or less the fact that the Hogan family is shunned in general right now because of her brother leaving a guy brain dead from his DUI and the fact that her mother dumped her father for a 18 year old emo guy.
I dont think they are just attacking her per se
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Now now...to be fair
he's 19 now
As for Brooke...good for her for not being afraid to speak her mind...not sure why the hell somebody would ask brooke Hogan of all people something like that, but whatever.
I've watched her show in five minute snippets ever now and then...I can't get a feel for what she's really like as a person, maybe it's the nature of a vh1 reality show, maybe it's because she does it on purpose.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
That entire family is screwed up. I thinks it's safe to say that Hulkmania is finally over, and not a minute too soon.
The real question is: Why is someone so worthless and not news-worthy like Brooke Hogan occupying a spot on Yahoo's home page? With so many f'ing important issues in our country right now, it's deemed that we care about the muses of some spoiled bimbo who apparently contains naught a thought in her head ? Who's running the show around here? No wonder nothing gets accomplished.
I don't know ... but this family is really getting on my nerves lately. Probably when Hulk Hogan said it was an act of God that that kid was in a coma. No, fuck you Hulk Hogan, the kid's in a coma because of your degenerate son.
Man, the misguided hero worship going on in this country right now makes me want to pull my fricking hair out.
Idiots.
/EndFuckingRant
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"Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb." -- Batman
The majority of women are too emotional. What's the big deal? She is afterall, a woman, they usually have the best recollection of the womanly psychic.
But ahh...yes, political incorrectness. It doesn't suit the political inside "clique".
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
It has nothing to do with being politially correct ot incorrect. Brooke Hogan may know about being a woman but that doesn't make her an expert on whether or not a woman can handle the stress of being a leader of a country. Sure, she has the right to her opinion. Is that opinion valid or resonable? Hardly. Brooke may be a woman but she's just a dizzy blond who is riding on her fathers former glory, enjoying her 15 mins of fame and knows nothing...NOTHING about the qualities needed to run a government. I'm sure if the likes of Margaret Thatcher (PM of the UK) or Anglela Merckel (Chancellor of Germany) or Mary Robinson (President of the Irish Republic) were in the room when she blerted out her bone-head comment they would have set her straight as fast as the speed of light!!
I don't think it is humanly possible to hurt this woman's career.
I just wanna see the carnage when this young punk and the Hulkster end up meeting. Hope she's got a spare bodybag available for her boyfriend. ( Hulks' wife, that is.)
She completely opened herself up to that kind of response when she expressed her opinions. People need to realize that their opinions, whether they like it or not, will almost always result in an insult to someone else's beliefs (once you place that wonderful "I think" into the equation, it's no longer just free discourse - you're making an argument for what you believe is true). When what you "think" amounts to stating that Hillary Clinton would not make a good presidential candidate, you're going to have 18 million people raining down on your ass - at least pick something less controversial so you won't be "sticking it" to so many people.
I just have to let this out, though: what she said was @#$%ing stupid.
Because as progressive as people want to pretend to be, most of the time they believe that their views on things are the only worthwhile view worth examination, and therefore will try to silence those who do not believe in the same way....Progressivism is anything but progressive, it's more like despotism.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Instead of expressing complete contempt for a person, why not state your argument in an intelligent and understandable way, then sit back and have some patience with that person.
I have found that it takes time for folks to come around. There are times when a persons emotions, pride, humility, whatever it the case, causes them to put up a wall to change at the point you are presenting your side of something. But if you let them go somewhere and think about what you've said, and also give them the respect that they deserve, a lot of times they will come to you later and admit their mistake. Especially if they feel comfortable in admitting it.
I've highlighted the portion that addresses the first part of your question. As for the second part, exposing factual or logical errors (whether expressed with contempt or not) is compelling enough in its own right. The workplace I have is proof enough for me in that regard as you fix the mistake or you lose your job. Its unforgiving but its a living.
Being in the workplace is different.
But either way, if you belittle a person then you are not going to be as persuasive as someone who has patience and understanding. You're just going to cause contempt in the person back towards you and their mind is going to be prone to even more stubbornness.
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All Rights Reversed
I've always found the fact that women are more emotional than men to be a gift. It keeps us on a more gentle plane instead of just running off half cocked on people.
I'm not sure why, but your comment sounds like an ancient rant from someone trying to put women "in their rightful place". I don't agree with that. I think women can make some great contributions to society and are every bit as equal of success or failure as a man.
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All Rights Reversed
Ayn Rand said the same thing about women. Of course, that was 50 years ago when most americans would of agreed with her.
Maybe she is an Ojectivist?
Part of the problem is that people don't know how to argue properly anymore. There are supposed to be points made and counterpoints. Insulting someone is the second last resort you should fall back on when you are losing an arguement. People today jump to it as their first point and stick to it - so an intelligent debate about anything becomes a "yo momma so fat" competition. The smartest person isn't the one with the best ideas it's the one that can come up with the most searing insults.
Another part is that people want to detach themselves from certain philosophies or they might be stained by it themselves by a witch hunter. So they damn anyone who says anything against the ideas of the popular majority.
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
Your seriously wondering why she was being ostracized? That statement comes across as sexists to many people, including me, a guy. So your saying anyone who states their opinion should not be ostracized? I believe is someone's opinion is prejudice in nature or is simply " I think all -insert ethnic group here- should die" then yes people have the right to ostracize them
It is better to win them over to your point of view using logic and reason than by trying to punish or hurt them. You gain nothing by punishing people who have social problems, but if you convert them you gain an ally. To use your example, some of the most effective anti-racist activists were at one time members of hate groups who have changed their ways.
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
It has nothing to do with being politially correct ot incorrect. Brooke Hogan may know about being a woman but that doesn't make her an expert on whether or not a woman can handle the stress of being a leader of a country. Sure, she has the right to her opinion. Is that opinion valid or resonable? Hardly. Brooke may be a woman but she's just a dizzy blond who is riding on her fathers former glory, enjoying her 15 mins of fame and knows nothing...NOTHING about the qualities needed to run a government. I'm sure if the likes of Margaret Thatcher (PM of the UK) or Anglela Merckel (Chancellor of Germany) or Mary Robinson (President of the Irish Republic) were in the room when she blerted out her bone-head comment they would have set her straight as fast as the speed of light!!
It has everything to do with being politically correct. And she may not know the mental and emotional fortitude of every woman, but most men, who are naturally more stoic creatures, would have trouble with the stress of running a nation. Many women who I know would agree with her statement. There are exceptions to the rule, but in general, you can't argue with biology.
I've always found the fact that women are more emotional than men to be a gift. It keeps us on a more gentle plane instead of just running off half cocked on people.
I'm not sure why, but your comment sounds like an ancient rant from someone trying to put women "in their rightful place". I don't agree with that. I think women can make some great contributions to society and are every bit as equal of success or failure as a man.
I find it ironic that you say that it keeps you on a more gentle plane instead of just running off half cocked on people. When in fact, what do you think causes that reaction? Emotions. It isn't because someone thinks through logically, "hey. I'm going to punch this fellow because my blood pressure is up, my heart is beating, and I'm getting flushed. It's time for a beat down!"
It is because of emotions that people do illogical things. I've met more women than men who go off on loud and boisterous tangents, sometimes getting physically violent.
Women are more emotional=fact. It's not necessarily a bad thing though. I wouldn't have wanted my mom as stoic as my father. But neither would I have wanted my father as emotional as my mother. They balanced each other out, and they both helped me mature in ways I needed to.
And lastly, my comment wasn't near long enough to be a rant. Nor did I ever say anything sexist in my comment; as an ending note let me say, I believe as well women can make great contributions. No reason why they shouldn't, or couldn't.
But people need to quit thinking that men and women are the same creatures. They are not. Only the truly delusioned believe otherwise.
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
This statement reminds me of when Bill Cosby spoke out to the black community and told them they needed to clean up their ways. In response he was called a turncoat, an uncle tom, etc.
And she never said women, or an ethnicity needed to die. Your use of extremism translucently shows a weak argument on your point.
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
Funny thing about it is
A guy cannot say that women should not run for political office because they are too emotional, because then he would be sexist
A woman cannot say that women should not run for political office because they are too emotional, because....it's untrue? Because she's sexist against her own gender?
Here's why she can't say it:
because you "progressive" *self censor* don't want anyone to say anything that doesn't jive with your world view, so you try to shut people like Brooke Hogan up when they say something that you don't agree with...now that's not very progressive of you.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
When has it ever been different? The only difference is the scale. If I were to say something like that at a family dinner I would catch the wrath of every woman in the house. Unfortunately, she said it on camera, which catches the wrath of anyone who watches entertainment tonight, or visits yahoo, or reads internet gaming forums.
I could care less what she says. It's not like I consider personal opinions a reliable source of information. Maybe some teenage girls listen to her, and if that's the case, I think she should get a chance to explain her comments. If the people who buy her products aren't satisfied with her answer, and refuse to buy her products, it's her own doing.
She wanted to be famous. Now she gets all the baggage that comes with it. Enjoy!