A great, huge, enormous, lack of Ryzom, rather Ryzoms operating companies, ever since the last Closed Beta ended, was communication. As well, listening is a fundamental part of communication...
Of course, this also implies to filter opinions that reoccur only by being given in full blast volume (which will always occur anyways) to get an at least decent impression of what the main playerbase wishes (e.g. see above *g*). Those that cry out loudest usually move on fastest as well.
I seriously hope that will be "fixed" with top priority, I'm convinced that it'd not only let all of us who got their MMO view of the universe "cleaned" thoroughly by Atys return for a glimpse but rather return and stay for as long as it's possible...
...activating morph from silent reader to active poster... ...pending... ...pending... ...pending...
Katriell, I agree with most of what you say especially the part hopefully that Ryzom is now starting off debt free and without a bloated staff.
However I do not see Ryzom as just a niche game, I see Ryzom having widespread appeal with the gameplay just as is. Part of the problem I believe is that Ryzom has the feel that it is for Computer Geeks.
Look at Klients -- is that user friendly for someone just wanting to play a game? The UI is somewhat the same way. Polish up Ryzom to make it player friendly and I believe many will find it the game they love to play.
Istaria also has the potential to be more than just a niche game but the developers are doing all the right things with that game for now imo. But with updated graphics, improved combat system, and better mob AI -- it has lots of potential long term.
And what's with this PvP, that players can not escape in Ryzom? I'm not aware of that. Was Underspring and Wastelands zones PvP at one time? Because I do not remember them being that way when I was there. The Lands of Umbra zones are PvP but they are only lev 150 and lev 200 zones. Of course I think they should get rid of PvP zones myself as I like PvE mostly; but I do like the PvP Outpost Battles in Ryzom.
If the new Ryzom developers take the same tact as Istaria's, Ryzom should be just fine. It will take time to turn it into a 100K+ player game but I see lots of reasons why it should get there.
PVP zones adds an element of danger above and beyond the often predictable AI of mmos, and gives more of a factional feel..
I hope there's going to be a fresh start on a new server, so that us newer players can take part in building a world and history, instead of grubbing around in the muck on our own while all the heroes are out doing their thing elsewhere :]
PVP zones adds an element of danger above and beyond the often predictable AI of mmos, and gives more of a factional feel.. I hope there's going to be a fresh start on a new server, so that us newer players can take part in building a world and history, instead of grubbing around in the muck on our own while all the heroes are out doing their thing elsewhere :]
Dude you will help build the civilizations in Ryzom even if there is no wipe the player base there is soooo newbie friendly and you won't be left alone! All you have to do is ask on universal chat for help and by and large you'll have us older players there to help! The community in Ryzom is like no other I have been apart of with the exception of Pre-Cu SWG! All you need are basic combat skills or magic skills which you get the the newbie island and you are off and running!
Originally posted by Devildog1 Dude you will help build the civilizations in Ryzom even if there is no wipe the player base there is soooo newbie friendly and you won't be left alone! All you have to do is ask on universal chat for help and by and large you'll have us older players there to help! The community in Ryzom is like no other I have been apart of with the exception of Pre-Cu SWG! All you need are basic combat skills or magic skills which you get the the newbie island and you are off and running!
You say that.. but thats not what happened when I left the tutorial island and reached the mainland, on 2 different occasions (2 different races).
Anyway I understand why you old timers would be against a wipe.. after all it would mean you lost all your progress, and thats your only real argument.. The notion that everyone starting from 0 would break the game because the infrastructure would no longer be there is a silly one, because I am pretty sure thats how the game started in the first place :]
What some of us want is the chance to be there building a new infrastructure from scratch, and create a new world, with active players, instead of messing around in a world that's 4 years old and only has a few of the most hardcore players left, the rest having gone off to do other things with their lives. A new world would feel like it belonged to us, and we would be taking pride in our accomplishments.. instead of just playing catchup in a world that's already been mapped out ahead of time.
A fresh start I would be one of the first in line to sign up to.. the same old pre-used existing servers I'd just wait for earthrise to start instead.
As for the newbie island, they should make the quest npcs make it clearer that they are only teaching you how to operate in the world, and that players are on their own after they leave the training camp... If i recall it said something more or less like that, if one took the time to read everything.. but you know players, they dont always read heh
Lastly.. anyone know any insiders that can reactivate ryzom forum accounts? Mine don't work, and I just get access denied for even just viewing the forums if I am logged in (but can see it all if logged out)
Originally posted by randomt Anyway I understand why you old timers would be against a wipe.. after all it would mean you lost all your progress, and thats your only real argument..
However I do not see Ryzom as just a niche game, I see Ryzom having widespread appeal with the gameplay just as is. Part of the problem I believe is that Ryzom has the feel that it is for Computer Geeks. Look at Klients -- is that user friendly for someone just wanting to play a game? The UI is somewhat the same way. Polish up Ryzom to make it player friendly and I believe many will find it the game they love to play.
I agree completely.
Ryzom has the potential to be much, much more popular (and financially lucrative) than it has been in the past with just a few relatively small and simple changes to non-core elements like the UI and the Silan-to-Mainland transition.
Katriell, I agree with most of what you say especially the part hopefully that Ryzom is now starting off debt free and without a bloated staff. However I do not see Ryzom as just a niche game, I see Ryzom having widespread appeal with the gameplay just as is. Part of the problem I believe is that Ryzom has the feel that it is for Computer Geeks. Look at Klients -- is that user friendly for someone just wanting to play a game? The UI is somewhat the same way. Polish up Ryzom to make it player friendly and I believe many will find it the game they love to play. Istaria also has the potential to be more than just a niche game but the developers are doing all the right things with that game for now imo. But with updated graphics, improved combat system, and better mob AI -- it has lots of potential long term. And what's with this PvP, that players can not escape in Ryzom? I'm not aware of that. Was Underspring and Wastelands zones PvP at one time? Because I do not remember them being that way when I was there. The Lands of Umbra zones are PvP but they are only lev 150 and lev 200 zones. Of course I think they should get rid of PvP zones myself as I like PvE mostly; but I do like the PvP Outpost Battles in Ryzom. If the new Ryzom developers take the same tact as Istaria's, Ryzom should be just fine. It will take time to turn it into a 100K+ player game but I see lots of reasons why it should get there.
Tuyet, are u joking? Klients is a simple irc client, what u want more simpler than that??
And what MMO offers 'live' support instead of petitions??
I really can't understand the problem with UI. Need some feature, yes, but don't tell me that's unplayable!!
I don't see anything really different from others, except some feature such as group sell and compare items...
And i think it's better to clarify, about PvP:
first, there is also a lvl 250 region GvG enabled, that is Trench of Trials.
Second, Prime Roots are the most dangerous regions and normally no one would come there except for boss hunts and sup digs (and kitin nest raid, one of our old dreams), so everything related to people that should have a master (or near).
You don't need to level in Prime Root. Mobs are tougher and there are non-PvP PR regions to level PR Foraging skill.
And about boss hunting and sup digging, they are Guild related activities to get PvP boosted items. You don't need them to PvE and no one use them for that. You know, items cannot be repaired.
Finally there are treks that sometime need to cross Trench of Trials, but normally treks are done in good number (and you can always trek doing the opposite path, so u could go around whole continents without getting a single foot in PR). I was never attacked nor ganked in PR and I loved trekking alone.
It happened in the past someone ganked a digger, but personally, when my guild wanted to dig sup mats, we always organized a group with guildies guarding the diggers, to help against enemies and/or nasty mobs (have u ever seen a Vorax?) roaming around the spots.
So, as said before, sup mats and boss hunt is a guild job or a faction job, just because all is pvp related.
People that don't want to PvP, absolutely don't need to cross that regions, and still there are other PR regions to look for exploration.
Last thing: you don't loose anything if you are killed in PvP, so also if you want to try, death is not a big problem, just some time to come back from a respawn point.
I really found PvP in Ryzom something with a meaning. Even in the pvp regions there is still a reason to do, something that involve politics and guild organization.
Of course, killing a digger alone (that cannot defend himself, cos at that levels you must use a focus gear) is unfair, and it happened in the past. But, for what i said, i think a digger that go alone should know the risk and accept the kill from an actual enemy.
Then, unless the guild has some restricting rule, i don't see any people forced to PvP in Ryzom.
PS: i really don't understand how you can compare Istaria with Ryzom. Am I the only one seeing crappy animations and graphics? Or devs have totally changed the game?
For the other part, I think Ryzom can be a niche game in first place, but, if devs make all the features needed, it can be very successfull. Btw, 100k players is a minimum, i think a mmo need at least 150k players to make some profit, if the game is the only activity of the owners.
Gilgamesh, sorry but i do not even really know what a simple irc client is. I do know that Klients has never worked right for me. And I do not want to spend any time trying to make it work. However I did go to that fix Klients problems link and it did not help. I look at that menus in klients and it is confusing to me. Sorry, but that's what my experience is. And I have been buying computers since 1982 with years of amateur programming in applesoft basic, C, and qbasic. Actually some of my qbasic programs were used in my machinist trade to do some pretty neat things. So if it is problematic for me at all, what about some players that pretty much just game?
As for the UI, it is definitely playable and very nice to me. However with all the options available it does have some geek feel to it. If all the options are maintained it will probably always have somewhat of that feel but it can be minimized and made more user friendly.
I have been ganked once in Elusive Forest by a follower of Jena. Only it on my ignore list.
As for Trench of Trials, if it is Q250 digs then good, I learned something new. But the Boss's are just Q220 from what I remember. And I'm prett sure I remember the mobs just being red. There are some purple Vorax in a couple areas of Q200 and Q150 dig Lands of Umbra zones but so what.
As for PvP and PvP zones, I pretty much agree with you. However, I've never seen any guilds using the zones for GvG battles. And even if the zones were made PvE, guilds could still go PvP by players enabling their PvP flags.
As for comparing Ryzom and Istaria -- both are fantasy skill based RPGMMOs. I didn't do much hunting/fighting in Istaria so not sure how much of the play is sandbox, but the crafting/foraging was definitely more questy for me but really made little difference in the feel. Either game would be real easy to morph into the other games mechanics from what I saw.
Istaria right now has the advantage of being a stable successful niche game.
As for what a niche game is, To me a niche game is one that has a relatively small playerbase that supports a relatively small devlopment staff.
All games are somewhat niche from an appeal viewpoint -- is it class or skill based? -- is it quest or sandbox?
How many paying customers to make Ryzom succesful? Say you want a 30 employee payroll at 120K cost per employee per year. Say server and subscription collection costs are insignificant. Then 30 x 120K / 15X12 = 20K playerbase. That's not that much, but Ryzom only had 5K-6K from what I heard. ( notice I want happy well paid employees )
Now from an investment standpoint it would take a lot more, from what I heard Ryzom was a 12M development project and investors typically want a 20% ROI so that would require another 2.4 M revenue a year or another 14K customers approx.
To not be a niche game, it has to be very successful where it generates 20%+ profits on initial investment costs.
EQ1 was so successful that SOE purchased it. EQ1 had about 600k+ playerbase from what I knew and had 100K+ players on at a time occassionally.
EQ1 is dying now from what I've seen. Too bad, it could still be a major player if it had never been sold to SOE and if they had pursued the same strategy that Blizzard has with WoW. EQ1 had too many expansions after SOE bought it, 3 a year. EQ2 was a terrible idea that just split up the community.
I'm not a Wow fan but I did play it for 3 months, got my shaman up to lev 40 or so I think. I am a Blizzard fan though, every game they have ever made is a top notch game with good gameplay. I played starcraft for 4 months online. I've played Diablo, Diablo2, and Warcraft.
Check out the UIs in Blizzard games for a user friendly feel -- that is one of the reasons for their success imo. Same goes for user friendly gameplay mechanics.
An example of not user friendly gameplay mechanics in Ryzom -- inability to move an action from one action bar to another action bar. That's just not acceptable from a comsumer viewpoint, just a huge negative.
Another, landmarks being overwritten because of a max number of allowable landmarks with no warning or counter or anything.
As for what the developers are doing? Beats me, I could have done at least half of my suggestions by myself if I was familiar with the game code and recently actively programming.
Maybe they want to make some impressive changes and try for a hit relaunch. I'm not optimistic for that type of approach but I hope it works if that's what they are up to.
30 paid developers is unreasonable. Five paid and a gaggle of volunteers is a more realistic figure.
Uhm, and you remember where that lead Nevrax, don´t you?
Sorry to disagree here, but I´d rather go with a good sized team of 20-30 Devs or something + the gaggle of volunteers than go through the Nevrax desaster again.
Too small a team can not do anything, despite any help from "volunteers". But that´s just my oppinion.
CU
SaM
Ryzom, we dare to be different. Do you dare to adapt?
SoR had plenty of players at release. Enough that they even seemed emboldened to hire new devs at the time based on purchase numbers.
This game has been plagued by bad management and bad decisions like to completely rebalance the combat portion of the game an severe death penalties shortly after the game's release that drove players to EQ2 and WoW.
Sad what this game became because it was so much fun in beta with kitin wars, prospecting in different lands was purposeful (before all the mats were dumbed down and made less interesting), and there were supposed to be multiple conflicts religious and political with a robust (and not the barely implemented) rite system and where the tribe affiliations really mattered and were advantageous.
Instead they choose a method of development that has so far closed two companies.
30 paid developers is unreasonable. Five paid and a gaggle of volunteers is a more realistic figure.
Actually I sort of agree to start; Just 2 or 3 developers should be fine till the customer base increases.
I was just throwing out some uninformed numbers from my completely naive veiwpoint. And thinking more along the lines of when Ryzom would be considered maturing.
And actually if Ryzom reaches its full potential it could support hundreds if not a thousand or so developers. AoC had 1100 programers from what I heard.
But that's based on my assessment that Ryzom is basically a very attractive game that just needs polishing to make it more user friendly and a few maybe user friendly additions.
As for the initial playerbase moving to EQ2 and WoW. Probably a lot of them like me, tried Ryzom because it came out before them and then moved on because they expected a lot from EQ2 or WoW.
I know I sure did. But I did not see a lot of players in Ryzom myself and it was one of the reasons I moved on. From what I saw I expected it to go bankrupt.
Then sure enough I return 2 years later just before the first liquidation, lol.
As for the vision of the original development team, I think they were brilliant. The math that I see behind the game is fantastic. The potential of the guilds, factions, tribes, and rites are just awesome. And from what I see, the developers would probably amaze me with what they had planned.
An expansion of Canopy zones would be awesome.
I have nothing against the fighting, hunting, foraging, trekking being harder or more complex.
But the tools to do all that have to be more customer friendly in my mind. An action book for user created actions, ingame loadable landmark books ( files ), bags/shelves, etc... And options to make those features easily usable like load a set of armor and jewels from a bag with a single click.
Originally posted by MaDSaM Originally posted by katriell 30 paid developers is unreasonable. Five paid and a gaggle of volunteers is a more realistic figure.
Uhm, and you remember where that lead Nevrax, don´t you? Sorry to disagree here, but I´d rather go with a good sized team of 20-30 Devs or something + the gaggle of volunteers than go through the Nevrax desaster again. Too small a team can not do anything, despite any help from "volunteers". But that´s just my oppinion. CU SaM Virtrium is succeeding with a team of the size I stated.
Nevrax's problem was not too few employees - they had too many and Gameforge was required to keep all of them.
----------- In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on August 13, 2008.
As for Trench of Trials, if it is Q250 digs then good, I learned something new. But the Boss's are just Q220 from what I remember. And I'm prett sure I remember the mobs just being red. There are some purple Vorax in a couple areas of Q200 and Q150 dig Lands of Umbra zones but so what. As for PvP and PvP zones, I pretty much agree with you. However, I've never seen any guilds using the zones for GvG battles. And even if the zones were made PvE, guilds could still go PvP by players enabling their PvP flags.
Nope, ToT is a purple region, not red.
It's true that guilds never used the zones for GvG. It was always a factional affair. So consider the regions just FvF enabled. That was not a game decision, but just a players decision. We had the options and we decided how to do PvP, with politics and such.
Yes, the FFA flag (as i call it) can be used by anyone factioned, even if unguilded.
Tuyet, are u joking? Klients is a simple irc client, what u want more simpler than that?? And what MMO offers 'live' support instead of petitions?? I really can't understand the problem with UI. Need some feature, yes, but don't tell me that's unplayable!!
These elements clearly don't make the game unplayable. But that's the wrong yardstick to use here.
Ryzom's problem is that these features are unnecessarily difficult/complicated.
The mmo playerbase is made up of lots of people with differing levels of technical expertise and any mmo, including Ryzom, either has to deliver a player-game interface that's immediately and effortlessly accessible to all of them, or forfeit many potential subscribers.
Players expect to insert a disc / run an executable file and have the game and all of its elements installed. That's the standard that the market has set. Klients isn't terribly complicated but just the fact that it's a separate program and you might need to read instructions on how to use it drags Ryzom below that standard.
There are a LOT of mmos on the market and nearly all of them have more intuitive UI's than Ryzom's. It's very simple once you're used to it, but I can understand why some players have come to these forums complaining about it. It could be improved.
It may just be me. But I was comming into the world of ryzom a few years ago with very limited online gaming, and a largely inferior knowledge of general computer operations to most average gamers. I'm not really understanding what is complicated about the game at all. I quickly and easily was able to adapt to anything. Klients were quite simple to, asks for your login, you type you login info, I'm a little confused how people had issues using it. If I ever had a problem with knowing how to do something, it was as simple as typing in universal, and being flooded with people to help me with anything from simple to more complex problems. The way the community is even if there were no gms at all, there were more then enough people willing to help you figure something out if you had a problem. I think the real problem may be in the general babying of anything in the world today. People seem to lack the ability to learn or process anything that isn't square=square
(this post is not directed, nor intended to be directed at anyone in this thread)
From a technical standpoint the game wasn't very complicated.. chances are if you were able to figure out how to train your skill tree, you could figure out how to install and use klients heh
If I recall correctly the GvG areas in roots are all red - Purple parts of the roots are regular.
*pokes Lwiz*
was all of ToT red? i seem to remember it had lower levels also. 100 - 150, and 150 - 200. maybe these are both red, memory not so good in my old age That cute boss in the tree was def not very high level
Comments
In small words: /ack
The larger part:
A great, huge, enormous, lack of Ryzom, rather Ryzoms operating companies, ever since the last Closed Beta ended, was communication. As well, listening is a fundamental part of communication...
Of course, this also implies to filter opinions that reoccur only by being given in full blast volume (which will always occur anyways) to get an at least decent impression of what the main playerbase wishes (e.g. see above *g*). Those that cry out loudest usually move on fastest as well.
I seriously hope that will be "fixed" with top priority, I'm convinced that it'd not only let all of us who got their MMO view of the universe "cleaned" thoroughly by Atys return for a glimpse but rather return and stay for as long as it's possible...
...activating morph from silent reader to active poster...
...pending...
...pending...
...pending...
Katriell, I agree with most of what you say especially the part hopefully that Ryzom is now starting off debt free and without a bloated staff.
However I do not see Ryzom as just a niche game, I see Ryzom having widespread appeal with the gameplay just as is. Part of the problem I believe is that Ryzom has the feel that it is for Computer Geeks.
Look at Klients -- is that user friendly for someone just wanting to play a game? The UI is somewhat the same way. Polish up Ryzom to make it player friendly and I believe many will find it the game they love to play.
Istaria also has the potential to be more than just a niche game but the developers are doing all the right things with that game for now imo. But with updated graphics, improved combat system, and better mob AI -- it has lots of potential long term.
And what's with this PvP, that players can not escape in Ryzom? I'm not aware of that. Was Underspring and Wastelands zones PvP at one time? Because I do not remember them being that way when I was there. The Lands of Umbra zones are PvP but they are only lev 150 and lev 200 zones. Of course I think they should get rid of PvP zones myself as I like PvE mostly; but I do like the PvP Outpost Battles in Ryzom.
If the new Ryzom developers take the same tact as Istaria's, Ryzom should be just fine. It will take time to turn it into a 100K+ player game but I see lots of reasons why it should get there.
PVP zones adds an element of danger above and beyond the often predictable AI of mmos, and gives more of a factional feel..
I hope there's going to be a fresh start on a new server, so that us newer players can take part in building a world and history, instead of grubbing around in the muck on our own while all the heroes are out doing their thing elsewhere :]
Dude you will help build the civilizations in Ryzom even if there is no wipe the player base there is soooo newbie friendly and you won't be left alone! All you have to do is ask on universal chat for help and by and large you'll have us older players there to help! The community in Ryzom is like no other I have been apart of with the exception of Pre-Cu SWG! All you need are basic combat skills or magic skills which you get the the newbie island and you are off and running!
can anyone give me in one or two short sentences the actual state of the game? Are the servers coming back and if so, when can this be expected?
You say that.. but thats not what happened when I left the tutorial island and reached the mainland, on 2 different occasions (2 different races).
Anyway I understand why you old timers would be against a wipe.. after all it would mean you lost all your progress, and thats your only real argument.. The notion that everyone starting from 0 would break the game because the infrastructure would no longer be there is a silly one, because I am pretty sure thats how the game started in the first place :]
What some of us want is the chance to be there building a new infrastructure from scratch, and create a new world, with active players, instead of messing around in a world that's 4 years old and only has a few of the most hardcore players left, the rest having gone off to do other things with their lives. A new world would feel like it belonged to us, and we would be taking pride in our accomplishments.. instead of just playing catchup in a world that's already been mapped out ahead of time.
A fresh start I would be one of the first in line to sign up to.. the same old pre-used existing servers I'd just wait for earthrise to start instead.
As for the newbie island, they should make the quest npcs make it clearer that they are only teaching you how to operate in the world, and that players are on their own after they leave the training camp... If i recall it said something more or less like that, if one took the time to read everything.. but you know players, they dont always read heh
Lastly.. anyone know any insiders that can reactivate ryzom forum accounts? Mine don't work, and I just get access denied for even just viewing the forums if I am logged in (but can see it all if logged out)
Sadly at the moment, the only thing we do know is that it will be back.
Nobody knows when though. A possible date MIGHT be the 16th of September.
Would be the 4th aniversary then
But that´s just guessing.
CU
SaM
Do you dare to adapt?
-----------
In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on August 13, 2008.
I agree completely.
Ryzom has the potential to be much, much more popular (and financially lucrative) than it has been in the past with just a few relatively small and simple changes to non-core elements like the UI and the Silan-to-Mainland transition.
Tuyet, are u joking? Klients is a simple irc client, what u want more simpler than that??
And what MMO offers 'live' support instead of petitions??
I really can't understand the problem with UI. Need some feature, yes, but don't tell me that's unplayable!!
I don't see anything really different from others, except some feature such as group sell and compare items...
And i think it's better to clarify, about PvP:
first, there is also a lvl 250 region GvG enabled, that is Trench of Trials.
Second, Prime Roots are the most dangerous regions and normally no one would come there except for boss hunts and sup digs (and kitin nest raid, one of our old dreams), so everything related to people that should have a master (or near).
You don't need to level in Prime Root. Mobs are tougher and there are non-PvP PR regions to level PR Foraging skill.
And about boss hunting and sup digging, they are Guild related activities to get PvP boosted items. You don't need them to PvE and no one use them for that. You know, items cannot be repaired.
Finally there are treks that sometime need to cross Trench of Trials, but normally treks are done in good number (and you can always trek doing the opposite path, so u could go around whole continents without getting a single foot in PR). I was never attacked nor ganked in PR and I loved trekking alone.
It happened in the past someone ganked a digger, but personally, when my guild wanted to dig sup mats, we always organized a group with guildies guarding the diggers, to help against enemies and/or nasty mobs (have u ever seen a Vorax?) roaming around the spots.
So, as said before, sup mats and boss hunt is a guild job or a faction job, just because all is pvp related.
People that don't want to PvP, absolutely don't need to cross that regions, and still there are other PR regions to look for exploration.
Last thing: you don't loose anything if you are killed in PvP, so also if you want to try, death is not a big problem, just some time to come back from a respawn point.
I really found PvP in Ryzom something with a meaning. Even in the pvp regions there is still a reason to do, something that involve politics and guild organization.
Of course, killing a digger alone (that cannot defend himself, cos at that levels you must use a focus gear) is unfair, and it happened in the past. But, for what i said, i think a digger that go alone should know the risk and accept the kill from an actual enemy.
Then, unless the guild has some restricting rule, i don't see any people forced to PvP in Ryzom.
PS: i really don't understand how you can compare Istaria with Ryzom. Am I the only one seeing crappy animations and graphics? Or devs have totally changed the game?
For the other part, I think Ryzom can be a niche game in first place, but, if devs make all the features needed, it can be very successfull. Btw, 100k players is a minimum, i think a mmo need at least 150k players to make some profit, if the game is the only activity of the owners.
Nickname registered on www.mynickname.org
Gilgameesh, graphics have nothing to do with the comparison of Istaria and Ryzom. It's about developer competence.
-----------
In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on August 13, 2008.
Ah, well, I misunderstood then
Nickname registered on www.mynickname.org
Gilgamesh, sorry but i do not even really know what a simple irc client is. I do know that Klients has never worked right for me. And I do not want to spend any time trying to make it work. However I did go to that fix Klients problems link and it did not help. I look at that menus in klients and it is confusing to me. Sorry, but that's what my experience is. And I have been buying computers since 1982 with years of amateur programming in applesoft basic, C, and qbasic. Actually some of my qbasic programs were used in my machinist trade to do some pretty neat things. So if it is problematic for me at all, what about some players that pretty much just game?
As for the UI, it is definitely playable and very nice to me. However with all the options available it does have some geek feel to it. If all the options are maintained it will probably always have somewhat of that feel but it can be minimized and made more user friendly.
I have been ganked once in Elusive Forest by a follower of Jena. Only it on my ignore list.
As for Trench of Trials, if it is Q250 digs then good, I learned something new. But the Boss's are just Q220 from what I remember. And I'm prett sure I remember the mobs just being red. There are some purple Vorax in a couple areas of Q200 and Q150 dig Lands of Umbra zones but so what.
As for PvP and PvP zones, I pretty much agree with you. However, I've never seen any guilds using the zones for GvG battles. And even if the zones were made PvE, guilds could still go PvP by players enabling their PvP flags.
As for comparing Ryzom and Istaria -- both are fantasy skill based RPGMMOs. I didn't do much hunting/fighting in Istaria so not sure how much of the play is sandbox, but the crafting/foraging was definitely more questy for me but really made little difference in the feel. Either game would be real easy to morph into the other games mechanics from what I saw.
Istaria right now has the advantage of being a stable successful niche game.
As for what a niche game is, To me a niche game is one that has a relatively small playerbase that supports a relatively small devlopment staff.
All games are somewhat niche from an appeal viewpoint -- is it class or skill based? -- is it quest or sandbox?
How many paying customers to make Ryzom succesful? Say you want a 30 employee payroll at 120K cost per employee per year. Say server and subscription collection costs are insignificant. Then 30 x 120K / 15X12 = 20K playerbase. That's not that much, but Ryzom only had 5K-6K from what I heard. ( notice I want happy well paid employees )
Now from an investment standpoint it would take a lot more, from what I heard Ryzom was a 12M development project and investors typically want a 20% ROI so that would require another 2.4 M revenue a year or another 14K customers approx.
To not be a niche game, it has to be very successful where it generates 20%+ profits on initial investment costs.
EQ1 was so successful that SOE purchased it. EQ1 had about 600k+ playerbase from what I knew and had 100K+ players on at a time occassionally.
EQ1 is dying now from what I've seen. Too bad, it could still be a major player if it had never been sold to SOE and if they had pursued the same strategy that Blizzard has with WoW. EQ1 had too many expansions after SOE bought it, 3 a year. EQ2 was a terrible idea that just split up the community.
I'm not a Wow fan but I did play it for 3 months, got my shaman up to lev 40 or so I think. I am a Blizzard fan though, every game they have ever made is a top notch game with good gameplay. I played starcraft for 4 months online. I've played Diablo, Diablo2, and Warcraft.
Check out the UIs in Blizzard games for a user friendly feel -- that is one of the reasons for their success imo. Same goes for user friendly gameplay mechanics.
An example of not user friendly gameplay mechanics in Ryzom -- inability to move an action from one action bar to another action bar. That's just not acceptable from a comsumer viewpoint, just a huge negative.
Another, landmarks being overwritten because of a max number of allowable landmarks with no warning or counter or anything.
As for what the developers are doing? Beats me, I could have done at least half of my suggestions by myself if I was familiar with the game code and recently actively programming.
Maybe they want to make some impressive changes and try for a hit relaunch. I'm not optimistic for that type of approach but I hope it works if that's what they are up to.
30 paid developers is unreasonable. Five paid and a gaggle of volunteers is a more realistic figure.
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In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on August 13, 2008.
Uhm, and you remember where that lead Nevrax, don´t you?
Sorry to disagree here, but I´d rather go with a good sized team of 20-30 Devs or something + the gaggle of volunteers than go through the Nevrax desaster again.
Too small a team can not do anything, despite any help from "volunteers". But that´s just my oppinion.
CU
SaM
Do you dare to adapt?
SoR had plenty of players at release. Enough that they even seemed emboldened to hire new devs at the time based on purchase numbers.
This game has been plagued by bad management and bad decisions like to completely rebalance the combat portion of the game an severe death penalties shortly after the game's release that drove players to EQ2 and WoW.
Sad what this game became because it was so much fun in beta with kitin wars, prospecting in different lands was purposeful (before all the mats were dumbed down and made less interesting), and there were supposed to be multiple conflicts religious and political with a robust (and not the barely implemented) rite system and where the tribe affiliations really mattered and were advantageous.
Instead they choose a method of development that has so far closed two companies.
Actually I sort of agree to start; Just 2 or 3 developers should be fine till the customer base increases.
I was just throwing out some uninformed numbers from my completely naive veiwpoint. And thinking more along the lines of when Ryzom would be considered maturing.
And actually if Ryzom reaches its full potential it could support hundreds if not a thousand or so developers. AoC had 1100 programers from what I heard.
But that's based on my assessment that Ryzom is basically a very attractive game that just needs polishing to make it more user friendly and a few maybe user friendly additions.
As for the initial playerbase moving to EQ2 and WoW. Probably a lot of them like me, tried Ryzom because it came out before them and then moved on because they expected a lot from EQ2 or WoW.
I know I sure did. But I did not see a lot of players in Ryzom myself and it was one of the reasons I moved on. From what I saw I expected it to go bankrupt.
Then sure enough I return 2 years later just before the first liquidation, lol.
As for the vision of the original development team, I think they were brilliant. The math that I see behind the game is fantastic. The potential of the guilds, factions, tribes, and rites are just awesome. And from what I see, the developers would probably amaze me with what they had planned.
An expansion of Canopy zones would be awesome.
I have nothing against the fighting, hunting, foraging, trekking being harder or more complex.
But the tools to do all that have to be more customer friendly in my mind. An action book for user created actions, ingame loadable landmark books ( files ), bags/shelves, etc... And options to make those features easily usable like load a set of armor and jewels from a bag with a single click.
Uhm, and you remember where that lead Nevrax, don´t you?
Sorry to disagree here, but I´d rather go with a good sized team of 20-30 Devs or something + the gaggle of volunteers than go through the Nevrax desaster again.
Too small a team can not do anything, despite any help from "volunteers". But that´s just my oppinion.
CU
SaM
Virtrium is succeeding with a team of the size I stated.
Nevrax's problem was not too few employees - they had too many and Gameforge was required to keep all of them.
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In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on August 13, 2008.
Nope, ToT is a purple region, not red.
It's true that guilds never used the zones for GvG. It was always a factional affair. So consider the regions just FvF enabled. That was not a game decision, but just a players decision. We had the options and we decided how to do PvP, with politics and such.
Yes, the FFA flag (as i call it) can be used by anyone factioned, even if unguilded.
Nickname registered on www.mynickname.org
These elements clearly don't make the game unplayable. But that's the wrong yardstick to use here.
Ryzom's problem is that these features are unnecessarily difficult/complicated.
The mmo playerbase is made up of lots of people with differing levels of technical expertise and any mmo, including Ryzom, either has to deliver a player-game interface that's immediately and effortlessly accessible to all of them, or forfeit many potential subscribers.
Players expect to insert a disc / run an executable file and have the game and all of its elements installed. That's the standard that the market has set. Klients isn't terribly complicated but just the fact that it's a separate program and you might need to read instructions on how to use it drags Ryzom below that standard.
There are a LOT of mmos on the market and nearly all of them have more intuitive UI's than Ryzom's. It's very simple once you're used to it, but I can understand why some players have come to these forums complaining about it. It could be improved.
It may just be me. But I was comming into the world of ryzom a few years ago with very limited online gaming, and a largely inferior knowledge of general computer operations to most average gamers. I'm not really understanding what is complicated about the game at all. I quickly and easily was able to adapt to anything. Klients were quite simple to, asks for your login, you type you login info, I'm a little confused how people had issues using it. If I ever had a problem with knowing how to do something, it was as simple as typing in universal, and being flooded with people to help me with anything from simple to more complex problems. The way the community is even if there were no gms at all, there were more then enough people willing to help you figure something out if you had a problem. I think the real problem may be in the general babying of anything in the world today. People seem to lack the ability to learn or process anything that isn't square=square
(this post is not directed, nor intended to be directed at anyone in this thread)
From a technical standpoint the game wasn't very complicated.. chances are if you were able to figure out how to train your skill tree, you could figure out how to install and use klients heh
I went into Trench of trials today and the mobs were red. I'm on the Arispotle server.
?
If I recall correctly the GvG areas in roots are all red - Purple parts of the roots are regular.
Playing: AC2
Played: UO, DaoC, Horizons, Ryzom, WAR, LotRO, Eve, VG...
*pokes Lwiz*
was all of ToT red? i seem to remember it had lower levels also. 100 - 150, and 150 - 200. maybe these are both red, memory not so good in my old age
That cute boss in the tree was def not very high level 