Throwing tons of money at something isn't just going to produce a quality product. I don't need an expansion every single year. It would be nice, but I've played to many games that do that and the expansions either suck, change the vision of the game or are just rushed out pieces of crap. Sure there are some good ones here and there, but I have learned in the last four years that it is worth waiting for an expansion or game if it means that it will come out a better product. One expansion every 2 years with some free content in between is fine by me. It would be better if they could make them faster and not sacrifice quality. It would be ever better if there were half a dozen games that didn't flop on release that I could swing by when bored of WoW, but save 1-2 games it has been a series of disappointments.
The only reason WoW keeps growing and smaller games keep failing is because the smaller games keep putting out trash. Anyone can make a decent game, carve out a couple hundred thousand players and be successful. Nothing is stopping them from doing that except their own ability and willingness to take a risk. Imagine what the market would be like if all the games over the last 4 years released a worthy product of holding onto several hundred thousand players each. More games, more innovations, more expansion, more competition. A big win for us players.
People keep saying WoW is forcing this or forcing that on these other games. No one is forcing other companies to make WoW clones. Those are active choices made by other companies. Anyone can make the next big game that redefines quality, fun, innovation or whatever it will be that ignites the next MMO craze. Until then I blame the companies that do NOT make something different. I don't blame the company that has found success and doesn't change their game just so they can try something different [see SOEs efforts on the NGE for results on that].
10 million subscribers x $15 per month = $150 MILLION PER MONTH!!!
That statement might be true if all 10 million subscribers are paying using US$.
I believe the majority (65%) of subscribers are actually coming from Asia.
I am most interested in your comments about LOTRO having more free content than WoW, do you have a link that list all these updates ?
Its too late for me to post links, sorry.
I know that when LOTRO first came out over a year ago, the game was on book 9 (maybe?). In a little over a year, Books 10-14 have been released which added content, quests, gear, items, instruments, an entire music system, entire zones, etc. LOTRO has one intention and that is recreating Tolkien's Middle Earth. Turbine is not bothered by dollar signs but by quality. Quantity just happens to be a by-product of Turbine's quality goals.
WoW in contrast added AQ and that desert-y zone that leads to AQ, along with arena battles since initial release four years ago.
I am sure I am missing free stuff that blizzard released but it does not compare to Turbine's free LOTRO content.
10 million subscribers x $15 per month = $150 MILLION PER MONTH!!!
That statement might be true if all 10 million subscribers are paying using US$.
I believe the majority (65%) of subscribers are actually coming from Asia.
I am most interested in your comments about LOTRO having more free content than WoW, do you have a link that list all these updates ?
Its too late for me to post links, sorry.
I know that when LOTRO first came out over a year ago, the game was on book 9 (maybe?). In a little over a year, Books 10-14 have been released which added content, quests, gear, items, instruments, an entire music system, entire zones, etc. LOTRO has one intention and that is recreating Tolkien's Middle Earth. Turbine is not bothered by dollar signs but by quality. Quantity just happens to be a by-product of Turbine's quality goals.
WoW in contrast added AQ and that desert-y zone that leads to AQ, along with arena battles since initial release four years ago.
I am sure I am missing free stuff that blizzard released but it does not compare to Turbine's free LOTRO content.
OK here is only a sample what Blizzard gave FREE over a one year period( June 07-June 08);I am not even talking of the arena patch in Feb 2007 or the patch 2.1.
Just ONE year overview.
Black temple Instance: 4 Raids bosses (25 men)
With patch 2.3: an extreme overhaul of some leveling zones AND new quest lines like Duskwallow Marsh (the island where Proudmoore reigns). Level upgrade from 20 to 60.
Zul Aman: a 6 Raid bosses quest (10 men)
Sunwell Island: complete new land islands with a great amount of new quests and a 5 man dungeon and 25 men raid with 6 bosses.
Sunwell was a first in that the whole server had to work to free the island and changing it forever, so you could unlock the new content and dungeons and raids. Hence the daily quests were raised to 25 new dailys all over Outland and Sunwell. (covering as diverse terrain as open world PvP daily quests and daily professions quests)
Not even talking of the seasonal quests like the Headless Horseman (Halloween), the Midsummer quests, the Fairs (they return but always with new quest lines and features).
Also: the crafting professions (gear etc...) always receive updates to be on an equel base with the general progression of the highest dungeons (since only 1 to 3% reach the highest raids, crafting in Wow anno 2008 is worthwile to make money and upgrade the gear - and NO it is not all bind on pick up - a lot of good stuff these days is bind on equipped.
For those NOT following Wow: Blizzad has now a pattern they make about 4 BIG free new content patches between the expansions. hence 2.1,2.2;2.3 and 2.4 .
But that doesn't mean they limit new content to these 4 big patches. For example last (little patch) they added some other quests (like the old man who lost his hat in the Caverns of Time instance).
So saying LOTRO is publishing more content in one year time is simply not true. With WotLK at least 25 to 30% new content will again be offered.
..... And do not forget .... Blizzard adds now .... complete 3D worlds (free airspace to travel in, free underwater wolds). To program these is 3X the "normal" ground space with fixed 2D borders.
This last sentence btw is the very difference between Wow and LotrO when programming new content.
OK here is only a sample what Blizzard gave FREE over a one year period( June 07-June 08);I am not even talking of the arena patch in Feb 2007 or the patch 2.1.
Just ONE year overview. Black temple Instance: 4 Raids bosses (25 men) With patch 2.3: an extreme overhaul of some leveling zones AND new quest lines like Duskwallow Marsh (the island where Proudmoore reigns). Level upgrade from 20 to 60. Zul Aman: a 6 Raid bosses quest (10 men) Sunwell Island: complete new land islands with a great amount of new quests and a 5 man dungeon and 25 men raid with 6 bosses. Sunwell was a first in that the whole server had to work to free the island and changing it forever, so you could unlock the new content and dungeons and raids. Hence the daily quests were raised to 25 new dailys all over Outland and Sunwell. (covering as diverse terrain as open world PvP daily quests and daily professions quests) Not even talking of the seasonal quests like the Headless Horseman (Halloween), the Midsummer quests, the Fairs (they return but always with new quest lines and features). Also: the crafting professions (gear etc...) always receive updates to be on an equel base with the general progression of the highest dungeons (since only 1 to 3% reach the highest raids, crafting in Wow anno 2008 is worthwile to make money and upgrade the gear - and NO it is not all bind on pick up - a lot of good stuff these days is bind on equipped. For those NOT following Wow: Blizzad has now a pattern they make about 4 BIG free new content patches between the expansions. hence 2.1,2.2;2.3 and 2.4 . But that doesn't mean they limit new content to these 4 big patches. For example last (little patch) they added some other quests (like the old man who lost his hat in the Caverns of Time instance). So saying LOTRO is publishing more content in one year time is simply not true. With WotLK at least 25 to 30% new content will again be offered. ..... And do not forget .... Blizzard adds now .... complete 3D worlds (free airspace to travel in, free underwater wolds). To program these is 3X the "normal" ground space with fixed 2D borders. This last sentence btw is the very difference between Wow and LotrO when programming new content.
Is it not true that what you posted above as free content is all since the BC expansion? BC expansion came out 2 years after game release (thereabouts)?
I don't disagree that Blizzard has added to the game since BC, but I feel it's only because so many players feel that BC ruined the existing game. Blizzard did not have the free content releases like LOTRO during it's first year after release. Don't say that it did, because it didn't. LOTRO has proven itself as a model for others to follow and shows that great content can be added for free very regularly and you don't need 10 million subscribers to make it happen.
What it boils down to for me is WoW is one of the best produced products on the market I like reading some of these anti WoW posts that talk about all it's launch problems I do recall some servers having issues at launch but not the enitre game and after that most of it's problems were sheer popularity long wait times to getinto server and such most of what he said is true though it's easily accesible and right now offers maybe the widest range of working content as far as mmos go, the only game I can think of that wow in some ways makes it hard for is LOTRO they are really similar and it strikes me as a much more mature game I wish half the mature players in wow would give that game a go so it could shine too
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Most of the things posted are good things and I agree with them, yet many of them are not unique to WoW and even less really out weigh the bad things. Personally I loved WoW until BC, and I feel sorry for anyone who currently raids in BC. Blizz decided to make it so time put into raiding pre BC would have no effect in the expansion, gear scaling ruined the game for me. I haven't played WoW in over a year but if I started playing when WotLK comes out, and I got to 80, I could have just as good of gear as someone who's also 80 but has been raiding the past year.
I can only assume this line of thinking as pvp oriented since I'm notmuch of a pvper but I have seen comments like this before and have always wondered why anyone would be so concerned what euipmnt someone else has, now I'll give you that my wa y of thinking does not take pvp into consideration but at the same time unless you are in a server first guild you at sometime had to compete with those on par with you and you obviously did play to get to your particular power level so what is so wrong with doing it again?
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
I got tired of seeing that "other" thread so I'm starting a new one. If you like the game, feel free to post your comments here instead of in that "other" thread. 1) Everyone can play it. You don't need a new PC to play it, you don't even need a new graphics card and you can still get a decent framerate. 2) It works. I don't crash to desktop. The quests can all be completed. If I actually have an issue like accidentally giving a bind on pickup item to the wrong person in Kara or accidentally deleting the wrong character, I can open a ticket and it will be fixed usually within an hour or 2. 3) It's kept up to date. Patches come out every month or 2 that add additional content, update the interface, add new features, etc. Every couple years a new expansion comes out with a bunch of new content, new races, new classes, new professions, new skills etc. 4) Servers are always active. Everytime I log in there's tons of people in game. I have a list of about 20 friends and there's almost always somebody playing. I put stuff up on the AH and within 48 hours it's sold. If I need something, I can search the AH and find it. 5) It's complete. For PvE there's role playing, questing, raiding, professions, trading and reputation rewards. For PvP there's battlegrounds, dueling, arenas, world PvP and tournament play. 6) It's user friendly. I can play alone or in a group up equally well and both offer great rewards. There are no harsh penalties for getting killed which means I don't spend a bunch of time trying to reacquire something I've already acquired. Leveling up doesn't take a lot of time so I always feel like I'm progressing even if I can only spend a couple hours a week playing. 7) It's fun. Lots of little extra's are added like holidays, world events, the faire, and a fishing tournament. 8) It's beautiful. Whether you are 5 or 75 you can appreciate a world filled with knights, damsels in distress, dragons, sorcerers, magic, dark castles, earie graveyards, majestic mountains, breathtaking waterfalls, zeppelin rides, vast oceans, etc. 9) It's addicting. Whether you are just a casual player or a hard core raider it will keep you entertained for hours and keep you wanting to come back for more. 10) It's cheap. It costs about the same to play WoW for a month that it does to go see a 2 hour movie, buy a soda and popcorn and pay for the gas there and back and I never have to leave the comfort of my own house. For entertainment value it's hard to beat.
I am glad that you at least are stating why the game has you liking it,no prob with that at all.It's better than most that just state it has more subs therefore it's a better game.
I'd like to break down the numbers and show why most don't relate to a good game whatsoever and that WOW fanbois are stretching to find a reason. They can't shake there addiction because fact is there friends are there and leaving all those high level classes is too painful.
1 Risk and yahtzee play perfect online and require nothing for a PC.It has no relation to a good game or massive subscriptions.
2 here we go again RIsk and yahtzee work and so does 95% of the games out there.This again does NOT set WOW apart from the rest of the gaming world.
3 kept up to date?well Runescape just updated there graphics and they have 1/50 th the cash flow WOW does,so why can't blizzard show respect to there player base?BTW that is why you pay a monthly fee for updates and an ongoing developer staff to look after the game,nothing new here that sets it apart from the rest.
4 This part i genuinely believe you when you say this.I have actually eluded to the fact that WOW's numbers kept rising JUST because there player base was large.This is a fact i have seen for several years ,and one i agree with.The problem is that the MMORPG player base chose to continually follow each other ,before giving other games a chance.Although this might be a legit reason to join the game it really is not an actual indication of the games quality.It is more so showing a fact that people will follow the masses,this is not only apparent in WOW but in other realms of real life.
5 yes i agree there game is complete.It very well should be since they copied the masters of RPG Everquest.They copied everything from EQ1 right down to the "T".Although it may be complete in respect to covering most bases,it really does not lend well to a team based game.Sure raiding requires a team but the core part of the game does not.After all this is suppose to be a MMORPG not a solo game that only gets together to raid.FFXI is truly the master of taking a game and designing it as a whole to be group oriented.There is NO argument about being hardcore or softcore,because it should be about longevity and NOT a race.Game's do not need to be designed to make casual players level fast..IT IS NOT A RACE.
6 LOL this part see above^^^^ IT IS NOT A RACE.You do NOT need to level fast and you do NOT need great rewards handed to you easily.If this was the case,would you pay blizzard 100 bucks to just hand you over a maxed out player and all the gear?Remove the whole core of the game and all players do is raid.Everyone one in the game would have the exact same gear and level ..lol.first person shooter anyone?
Little challenge,fast leveling is miles away from equating to a quality game.
7 UMM everything you mentioned is in FFXI and pretty much every game out there.I think this shows further that the OP was a follower to this game and did NO homework on the other games in the MMORPG genre.Actually FFXI has more content outside of normal levelling and crafting than prolly any game in the genre.Mobs attacking cities and outposts,assault,einjehar,ARENA fights...many many more ideas that WOW hasn't come close to.
8 i tend to not agree on this one at all.Sure beauty is in the eye of the beholder so i can't argue it is not good looking to you,it just is not to me.The textures are very poorly done and the player models are nothing at all.But like i said you find it good looking all the power to you.
9 I lend this part to the ease of leveling.Most players do seen to like things easy and given to them.They want to keep coming back to get that next level,that next ability or spell.This shows that a game has very weak content since all players want to do is get that next level.I know the ease of leveling is the addiction,my opinion of course since the OP didn't mention ANYTHING to say why it is addicting.
10 this topic most deffinately has nothing to do with a quality game.If cheap is all peeps care about go play F2P games,they cost you nothing.As far as the quality games go that have everythhing WOW does and more ,they cost the exact same thing to play.So even the cost of a quality game like WOW is matched many times over and lends no sole reason to join WOW over the other quality games.
To sum it up not one of the 10 topics had any merit over the other quality P2P games.Not one of them shows a reason to pick WOW over MANY other choices.As a matter of fact the one topic mentioned "It's Beautiful" can be easily matched or beat in some F2P games.I think the most accurate fact in all of this is the fact that players follow others to a BUSY game.If WOW didn't have the massive amount of subs ,i truly believe the game would have slowly died long ago.Players would not put up with the mediocre effort if the servers were dead.
Myself i quit WOW long ago and didn't put any merit into a full server being the reason i would stick with the very weak effort.Some like to call the game polished,i like to call it SIMPLETON.A total noob developer could have polished that effort since it has nothing ground breaking nor offers anything unique,i mean how could they possibly mess it up?
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
What strikes me most is that a big part of the critics said "they quit the game long ago".
They even come with old arguments that don't apply anymore.
In Wow 2008 you have different ways to acquire good gear (even the best). NO longer is it a pure raiding game.
Everything changed so much, these people are realy talking about different (old) game mechanics.
They don't know anything about the PVE badge system or the common tokens for different class loot, the daily quests (in every aspect of the game --- from open world pvp to professions), the very low "grind" feeling this game has now (because no one still bashes monsters just to grind these days).
So it is useless to even discuss the matters.
You know what?
You ALL know Blizzard right? From making great games right?
Well guess what ::: Blizzard adepted its MMO to a new level and so the old Wow is by NO means comparable to the 2008 version in its END game.
Gone are the days that epics were only for those who raided day and night (or did BG's day and night).
Blizzard added choices of play now that reduce enormously the grinding and augment the FUN factor of the game.
Because of this the vast majority of new and present generations playing Wow don't even mind the new tier gear sets in WotLK: on the contrary they await it with much eager.
It is useless to discuss with someone who talks of a game he played up until TBC (and 3 months afterwards). The mechanics changed and changed a lot. Patches 2.2, 2.3 and 2.4 were somtimes milestones in changes to the whole progress system of Wow (from useful crafting on the end game to complete server achievements of all players involved to 25 daily quests).
It is now possible to have very high PvP gear just by playing Arena or BG for 1 hour a day. But you better be good in your playing style or won't see some gear ... ever.
Call it the Blizzard touch. The same touch they gave to all their games.
Is it not true that what you posted above as free content is all since the BC expansion? BC expansion came out 2 years after game release (thereabouts)? I don't disagree that Blizzard has added to the game since BC, but I feel it's only because so many players feel that BC ruined the existing game. Blizzard did not have the free content releases like LOTRO during it's first year after release. Don't say that it did, because it didn't. LOTRO has proven itself as a model for others to follow and shows that great content can be added for free very regularly and you don't need 10 million subscribers to make it happen.
Sigh: I guess you were surprised by my list....
I stated clearly that my extensive ( from above) but by no means exclusive list was ONLY from the last 12 months.
I showed you what a Wow user had as free new content over the peiod of ONE year (June to June 2008).
And believe it or not Blizzard had exaclty the same kind of massive content updates in its first year.
AB / AV was produced and a lot of the now infamous dungeons/raids were launched in its first year.
So compare and you"ll see the Wow player has had a LOT of free updates (and not even small ones), certainly comparable with other MMORPG"s.
Here is the info of 4 years of MAJOR patches (massive isn't it ?)
Originally posted by Bronks Is it not true that what you posted above as free content is all since the BC expansion? BC expansion came out 2 years after game release (thereabouts)? I don't disagree that Blizzard has added to the game since BC, but I feel it's only because so many players feel that BC ruined the existing game. Blizzard did not have the free content releases like LOTRO during it's first year after release. Don't say that it did, because it didn't. LOTRO has proven itself as a model for others to follow and shows that great content can be added for free very regularly and you don't need 10 million subscribers to make it happen.
There has been plenty of pre-expansion free content as well as post expansion free content in WoW. I'm not entirely sure of the time line, but I think in the first year Maraudon, Dire Maul, Outdoor world encounter dragons, War song gultch, Arathi Basin, Alterac Valley, Black wing lair and a few world event story lines were introduced. Again I'm not sure of the timeline, but I think Blizzard took a nice que from Asheron's Call [Turbine] with free content updates.
To be completely fair, LOTRO while it has added a lot of free content, it also released with a less than complete end game and somewhat lacking in the 35+ area. It is an example of a great launch though, don't get me wrong, but it was really in need of some of that free content to complete the base game. Not to downplay the path LOTRO is heading with what looks to be a winning strategy of the book updates every couple of months. I hope others follow suit.
To be honest Turbine was doing similiar styled free updates in Asheron's Call before these two games were even a thought. Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I think they were doing it on a monthly basis.
Sigh: I guess you were surprised by my list.... I stated clearly that my extensive ( from above) but by no means exclusive list was ONLY from the last 12 months. I showed you what a Wow user had as free new content over the peiod of ONE year (June to June 2008). And believe it or not Blizzard had exaclty the same kind of massive content updates in its first year. AB / AV was produced and a lot of the now infamous dungeons/raids were launched in its first year. So compare and you"ll see the Wow player has had a LOT of free updates (and not even small ones), certainly comparable with other MMORPG"s. Here is the info of 4 years of MAJOR patches (massive isn't it ?) http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev/implemented/index.html Happy scrolling. AS you can see, Wow is already now on the 16th (!) free "book" of massive content updates. Not even talking of the addition of a handfull quests/professions per update. and EACH of these 16 has mostly 3 to 4 huge sub contents.
See... typing without knowing is always asking for more info.
Boy, when you are a fanboy, you're REALLY a fanboy. Give me $150 million a month and I will create the greatest game ever made in the history of mankind as well as cure cancer the second month and defeat world famine after the third month.
Listen, I agree with you that Blizzard makes fun games. I agree with you that Blizzard has added content. I cannot agree that Blizzard free content compares or exceeds what LOTRO has had added to that game. I have played both games (as a raider). I've done WoW's original content updates for months and months. I can tell you, when Maraudon or Dire Maul came about you ran the dungeon, did your couple quests and repeated over and over and over and over until the next free content release 4 months later. There is not a feeling of satisfaciton from finishing DM once or 100 times, just like killing world dragons or running ZG for coins over and over and over and over.
Blizzard can make a polished game, but their core foundation is based on single player games. That is what they excel at. Sure you can play with others in Diablo or WC or SC, but they are still single player games that offer multiplayer. Blizzard does not understand how to run a massively multiplayer game.
The free content releases are due to the voice of the gamers who became bored with the existing content. Blizzard has always responded to unhappy players by tossing them a cookie when they get hungry.
Turbine, on the other hand, has always had an end goal in sight due to the LOTR IP. Turbine gauged how fast an average gamer would work through the story arcs and once the average gamer was finishing up the lore Turbine would put out an entire new portion of lore for gamers to follow. The content was not thrown at gamers because they are bored waiting for a new expansion. The content is released because it was meant to be released.
Turbine is a massively multiplayer game developer. They have made big mistakes in the past but at it's very foundation Turbine understands multiplayer. Blizzard is stil stuck in a Battlenet mentality.
There has been plenty of pre-expansion free content as well as post expansion free content in WoW. I'm not entirely sure of the time line, but I think in the first year Maraudon, Dire Maul, Outdoor world encounter dragons, War song gultch, Arathi Basin, Alterac Valley, Black wing lair and a few world event story lines were introduced. Again I'm not sure of the timeline, but I think Blizzard took a nice que from Asheron's Call [Turbine] with free content updates. To be completely fair, LOTRO while it has added a lot of free content, it also released with a less than complete end game and somewhat lacking in the 35+ area. It is an example of a great launch though, don't get me wrong, but it was really in need of some of that free content to complete the base game. Not to downplay the path LOTRO is heading with what looks to be a winning strategy of the book updates every couple of months. I hope others follow suit.
To be honest Turbine was doing similiar styled free updates in Asheron's Call before these two games were even a thought. Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I think they were doing it on a monthly basis.
Yes, AC1 did have monthly 'events'. They weren't all content additions, but they were game altering events that, for better or worse, changed the entire future of the game.
There has been plenty of pre-expansion free content as well as post expansion free content in WoW. I'm not entirely sure of the time line, but I think in the first year Maraudon, Dire Maul, Outdoor world encounter dragons, War song gultch, Arathi Basin, Alterac Valley, Black wing lair and a few world event story lines were introduced. Again I'm not sure of the timeline, but I think Blizzard took a nice que from Asheron's Call [Turbine] with free content updates. To be completely fair, LOTRO while it has added a lot of free content, it also released with a less than complete end game and somewhat lacking in the 35+ area. It is an example of a great launch though, don't get me wrong, but it was really in need of some of that free content to complete the base game. Not to downplay the path LOTRO is heading with what looks to be a winning strategy of the book updates every couple of months. I hope others follow suit.
To be honest Turbine was doing similiar styled free updates in Asheron's Call before these two games were even a thought. Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I think they were doing it on a monthly basis.
You can see the exact timeline and what contents being included (pre-BC) in the Patches list in WoWWiki.
You can see the exact timeline and what contents being included (pre-BC) in the Patches list in WoWWiki. For post BC patches, it's available here. If anyone have similar list for LOTRO, please do share it as I'd really like to see it so I can do head-to-head comparison between the two.
I've been looking but can't find you a timeline for the patches. I don't know how you can compare the two, though. It would be like comparing apples to oranges. What would your criteria be? Length of time it takes to conquer the new content? Amount of gear released with the new areas? Land mass size? Number of releases?
I'm not sure how you'd compare the games' free content. I don't think releasing dragon world bosses could compare with the release of an entire land expansion and story-driven quest line. I also don't think releasing new instrument types can compare to releasing a raid dungeon.
1) Anyone can think any game is good. Personally, my favorites are LotRO, WoW and up until about a year ago SWG. Even after the NGE.When I get bored with one, I move on to another.
I don't want to fuck the same girl month after month, and I don't want to play the same game month after month, as once I get used to something, I tend to get bored with it. In both cases, I may return, I may not. I don't care about what anyone else says because :
2) You are posting on mmorpg.com, meaning you most likely play mmos, meaning you're a dork. Acting like you're better than someone because you dork out in a slightly different way just makes me laugh. Go polish your pocket protector Poindexter.
I've been looking but can't find you a timeline for the patches. I don't know how you can compare the two, though. It would be like comparing apples to oranges. What would your criteria be? Length of time it takes to conquer the new content? Amount of gear released with the new areas? Land mass size? Number of releases?
I'm not sure how you'd compare the games' free content. I don't think releasing dragon world bosses could compare with the release of an entire land expansion and story-driven quest line. I also don't think releasing new instrument types can compare to releasing a raid dungeon.
So, do we agree then~ that free contents from both games are not comparable and it's a bad idea to bring it up at the first place ?
I am glad that you at least are stating why the game has you liking it,no prob with that at all.It's better than most that just state it has more subs therefore it's a better game. Thank you. I'd like to break down the numbers and show why most don't relate to a good game whatsoever and that WOW fanbois are stretching to find a reason. They can't shake there addiction because fact is there friends are there and leaving all those high level classes is too painful. 1 Risk and yahtzee play perfect online and require nothing for a PC.It has no relation to a good game or massive subscriptions. Wrong. That's NOT what I said. I didn't say that every game that is playable on a PC is a good game. What I'm saying is that any game that does NOT play on a majority of PC's is not as good as a game that does. So while Risk and Yahtzee MIGHT be as good as WoW at least as far as performance goes, they may not measure up in other areas. 2 here we go again RIsk and yahtzee work and so does 95% of the games out there.This again does NOT set WOW apart from the rest of the gaming world. Wrong. That's NOT what I said. I didn't say that every reliable game is a good game. What I'm saying is that any game that is NOTreliable is not as good as a game that is. So while 95% MIGHT be as good as WoW at least as far as reliability goes, they may not measure up in other areas. 3 kept up to date?well Runescape just updated there graphics and they have 1/50 th the cash flow WOW does,so why can't blizzard show respect to there player base?BTW that is why you pay a monthly fee for updates and an ongoing developer staff to look after the game,nothing new here that sets it apart from the rest. Wrong. That's NOT what I said. I didn't say that every game that is kept up to date is a good game. What I'm saying is that any game that is NOT kept up to date is not as good as a game that is. Starting to see a pattern yet? 4 Although this might be a legit reason to join the game it really is not an actual indication of the games quality. True. But it doesn't matter. The fact is that this is a legit reason to play the game over other games. Many people purchase Nike shoes just because a lot of other people do. That doesn't make it a good or bad shoe, but it does make more people want to wear them. Right or wrong, popularity/brand name is a key factor when making a purchase. That's undeniable. 5 yes i agree there game is complete. So what's your point? All that you said was not the point I was making, merely that the game is complete. 6 LOL this part see above^^^^ IT IS NOT A RACE.You do NOT need to level fast and you do NOT need great rewards handed to you easily.If this was the case,would you pay blizzard 100 bucks to just hand you over a maxed out player and all the gear?Remove the whole core of the game and all players do is raid.Everyone one in the game would have the exact same gear and level ..lol.first person shooter anyone? Little challenge,fast leveling is miles away from equating to a quality game. Would take too long to explain my views on this one. Suffice to say, we disagree. 7 UMM everything you mentioned is in FFXI and pretty much every game out there.I think this shows further that the OP was a follower to this game and did NO homework on the other games in the MMORPG genre.Actually FFXI has more content outside of normal levelling and crafting than prolly any game in the genre.Mobs attacking cities and outposts,assault,einjehar,ARENA fights...many many more ideas that WOW hasn't come close to. See numbers 1, 2 and 3. Exact same argument. It's not that any game that is FUN is a good game, but rather that any game that is NOT fun is not as good as one that is. 9 the OP didn't mention ANYTHING to say why it is addicting. That's because it doesn't matter why, the fact is it's addicting. Again it all goes back to most of the other points I made, it's not that any game that is addicting is good, but rather that any game that is not addicting is not as good as one that is. 10 this topic most deffinately has nothing to do with a quality game.If cheap is all peeps care about go play F2P games See 1, 2, 3....well just about every last point I made. One more time. It's not that every game that is cheap is good, rather that any game that is NOT cheap is not as good as one that is. To sum it up not one of the 10 topics had any merit over the other quality P2P games. Actually what you mean is WoW does not shine in any ONE topic over some other games. True, but that's not the point. The point is that taking ALL the points together is what makes WoW shine over other games. Almost all other MMO's are deficient on at least ONE of the points I made. They may be WoW's equal on 9 of the points, but unless they are equal or better on all 10, then it's not quite as good of a game at least for me. These are the things that make it a good game for me. Not any one of them, but all of the them combined. When I evaluate a game, I do not compare one aspect of a game to all others, but rather all aspects to all others. Some are better in one way, but weaker in another. And just so you know WoW is not my only MMO. It's not even my first MMO. No, I have not played the majority of MMO's, because I don't care to. I've played enough of them to know what I like and don't like and I've found a game I enjoy. I did not create this thread to convince others that I know the best MMO to play, rather I created this thread because other's have tried to convince me in these forums that the game I enjoy is pure crap. I disagree and these are my reasons why. If you must have a list, I have subscribed to the following in order: Earth and Beyond, City of Heroes/Villians, DAoC, WoW, Auto Assault and Guild Wars. Only Earth and Beyond, City of Heroes/Villians and WoW did I subscribe for longer than 1 month. I have tried the following in no particular order: Anarchy Online, EvE, Tabula Rasa, Hellgate London and a few others so poor I don't care to recall them.
I am sure I am missing free stuff that blizzard released but it does not compare to Turbine's free LOTRO content.
Understatement of the century. The fact is you don't have a clue what WoW released in it's first year of existance and yet you somehow can compare it to what LOTRO released in that same time. How is this possible? Here's a partial list of what Blizzard added to WoW in it's first year.
6 new dungeons, (Mauradon, Dire Maul, Blackwing Lair, Zul'Gurub, Ruins of Ahn'Qiraj and Temple of Ahn,Qiraj), 1 zone overhaul (Silithus), 3 battlegrounds (Warsong Gulch, Arathi Basin and Alterac Valley) and 6 world bosses (Azuregos, Lord Kazzak, Ysondre, Lethon, Emeriss, Taerar).
Class updates, tons of new items, item sets, mobs, story lines, etc.
That brought the totals at that time to 47 zones , 25 dungeons and 3 battlegrounds. What are the totals for LOTRO?
The second year was mostly the expansion TBC which added quite a bit of stuff. Here's a quick rundown:
2 new races. 13 new zones. 22 new dungeons. 1 new battleground. Cap raised to lvl 70. Flying Mounts. Jewelcrafting. Prospecting. Profession increased to 375. Heroic mode instances. Weather, Key rings, Eastern Plaguelands revamp, Cross Realm Battlegrounds, Arenas, LFG button, Sockets and gems, meeting stone summoning, more items, item sets, mobs, story lines, etc.
That brought the totals to that point to 60 zones, 47 dungeons and 4 battlegrounds. We'll see how LOTRO stacks up at the end of 2 years.
ok, i see one guy promoting WoW, and putting down other games, saying that they don't have what WoW has, but, the thing is, I will use the Wal-Mart ananology. When you want something fast, easy, but usually less rewarding in the end, you go to Wal-Mart. But when you want something a little bit differnet, in a way that Wal-Mart doesn't have, you go to a specialty store (ie, gamestop instead of Walmart game section) Do not put down other games because they do not do "everything" equeally like WoW, but they do several things exceptional.
And then I see promoting WoW on the same generic points over and over, and not saying much else, and I don't have that much pf a problem with it, just that it is to generic to make a debate over, and many things, other game have.
So lets end this at least, and let us stop dragging out all of these arguments on generic points by each side. so, lets end it, stop the flaming, and have a nice day
ok, i see one guy promoting WoW, and putting down other games, saying that they don't have what WoW has, but, the thing is, I will use the Wal-Mart ananology. When you want something fast, easy, but usually less rewarding in the end, you go to Wal-Mart. But when you want something a little bit differnet, in a way that Wal-Mart doesn't have, you go to a specialty store (ie, gamestop instead of Walmart game section) Do not put down other games because they do not do "everything" equeally like WoW, but they do several things exceptional. And then I see promoting WoW on the same generic points over and over, and not saying much else, and I don't have that much pf a problem with it, just that it is to generic to make a debate over, and many things, other game have. So lets end this at least, and let us stop dragging out all of these arguments on generic points by each side. so, lets end it, stop the flaming, and have a nice day
Saying that LOTRO is more than Wow in both content and game play value on a Wacrraft Forum (!!!!) is kind of trolling.
And saying that the copycat LOTRO is even more than Wow is, is a real laugh.
I saw the patches and 'books" of LOTRO and they don't come even close to WOW's content.
Just click above on the free content Blizzard delivered over these years.
The difference in content is staggering. LOTRO is not even a close second.
And just to show the quality difference between WOW and LOTRO:
In TBC Outland and now in the new Litch KING expansion, you can fly your personal epic mount and fly all over the continent and land everywhere you want (complete seamless open world- no loading screens).
This background loading in a FULL 3D landscape is complete UNKNOWN in the world of LOTRO and takes MASSIVE amounts of more programming time than the pseudo 2D frontiers every other fantasy MMORPG offers these days.
So IF there is fast food involved it CERTAINLY is with the LOTRO side, because of lack of these new developped techniques used since The Burning Crusade.
Comments
Throwing tons of money at something isn't just going to produce a quality product. I don't need an expansion every single year. It would be nice, but I've played to many games that do that and the expansions either suck, change the vision of the game or are just rushed out pieces of crap. Sure there are some good ones here and there, but I have learned in the last four years that it is worth waiting for an expansion or game if it means that it will come out a better product. One expansion every 2 years with some free content in between is fine by me. It would be better if they could make them faster and not sacrifice quality. It would be ever better if there were half a dozen games that didn't flop on release that I could swing by when bored of WoW, but save 1-2 games it has been a series of disappointments.
The only reason WoW keeps growing and smaller games keep failing is because the smaller games keep putting out trash. Anyone can make a decent game, carve out a couple hundred thousand players and be successful. Nothing is stopping them from doing that except their own ability and willingness to take a risk. Imagine what the market would be like if all the games over the last 4 years released a worthy product of holding onto several hundred thousand players each. More games, more innovations, more expansion, more competition. A big win for us players.
People keep saying WoW is forcing this or forcing that on these other games. No one is forcing other companies to make WoW clones. Those are active choices made by other companies. Anyone can make the next big game that redefines quality, fun, innovation or whatever it will be that ignites the next MMO craze. Until then I blame the companies that do NOT make something different. I don't blame the company that has found success and doesn't change their game just so they can try something different [see SOEs efforts on the NGE for results on that].
That statement might be true if all 10 million subscribers are paying using US$.
I believe the majority (65%) of subscribers are actually coming from Asia.
I am most interested in your comments about LOTRO having more free content than WoW, do you have a link that list all these updates ?
That statement might be true if all 10 million subscribers are paying using US$.
I believe the majority (65%) of subscribers are actually coming from Asia.
I am most interested in your comments about LOTRO having more free content than WoW, do you have a link that list all these updates ?
Its too late for me to post links, sorry.
I know that when LOTRO first came out over a year ago, the game was on book 9 (maybe?). In a little over a year, Books 10-14 have been released which added content, quests, gear, items, instruments, an entire music system, entire zones, etc. LOTRO has one intention and that is recreating Tolkien's Middle Earth. Turbine is not bothered by dollar signs but by quality. Quantity just happens to be a by-product of Turbine's quality goals.
WoW in contrast added AQ and that desert-y zone that leads to AQ, along with arena battles since initial release four years ago.
I am sure I am missing free stuff that blizzard released but it does not compare to Turbine's free LOTRO content.
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That statement might be true if all 10 million subscribers are paying using US$.
I believe the majority (65%) of subscribers are actually coming from Asia.
I am most interested in your comments about LOTRO having more free content than WoW, do you have a link that list all these updates ?
Its too late for me to post links, sorry.
I know that when LOTRO first came out over a year ago, the game was on book 9 (maybe?). In a little over a year, Books 10-14 have been released which added content, quests, gear, items, instruments, an entire music system, entire zones, etc. LOTRO has one intention and that is recreating Tolkien's Middle Earth. Turbine is not bothered by dollar signs but by quality. Quantity just happens to be a by-product of Turbine's quality goals.
WoW in contrast added AQ and that desert-y zone that leads to AQ, along with arena battles since initial release four years ago.
I am sure I am missing free stuff that blizzard released but it does not compare to Turbine's free LOTRO content.
OK here is only a sample what Blizzard gave FREE over a one year period( June 07-June 08);I am not even talking of the arena patch in Feb 2007 or the patch 2.1.
Just ONE year overview.
Black temple Instance: 4 Raids bosses (25 men)
With patch 2.3: an extreme overhaul of some leveling zones AND new quest lines like Duskwallow Marsh (the island where Proudmoore reigns). Level upgrade from 20 to 60.
Zul Aman: a 6 Raid bosses quest (10 men)
Sunwell Island: complete new land islands with a great amount of new quests and a 5 man dungeon and 25 men raid with 6 bosses.
Sunwell was a first in that the whole server had to work to free the island and changing it forever, so you could unlock the new content and dungeons and raids. Hence the daily quests were raised to 25 new dailys all over Outland and Sunwell. (covering as diverse terrain as open world PvP daily quests and daily professions quests)
Not even talking of the seasonal quests like the Headless Horseman (Halloween), the Midsummer quests, the Fairs (they return but always with new quest lines and features).
Also: the crafting professions (gear etc...) always receive updates to be on an equel base with the general progression of the highest dungeons (since only 1 to 3% reach the highest raids, crafting in Wow anno 2008 is worthwile to make money and upgrade the gear - and NO it is not all bind on pick up - a lot of good stuff these days is bind on equipped.
For those NOT following Wow: Blizzad has now a pattern they make about 4 BIG free new content patches between the expansions. hence 2.1,2.2;2.3 and 2.4 .
But that doesn't mean they limit new content to these 4 big patches. For example last (little patch) they added some other quests (like the old man who lost his hat in the Caverns of Time instance).
So saying LOTRO is publishing more content in one year time is simply not true. With WotLK at least 25 to 30% new content will again be offered.
..... And do not forget .... Blizzard adds now .... complete 3D worlds (free airspace to travel in, free underwater wolds). To program these is 3X the "normal" ground space with fixed 2D borders.
This last sentence btw is the very difference between Wow and LotrO when programming new content.
Is it not true that what you posted above as free content is all since the BC expansion? BC expansion came out 2 years after game release (thereabouts)?
I don't disagree that Blizzard has added to the game since BC, but I feel it's only because so many players feel that BC ruined the existing game. Blizzard did not have the free content releases like LOTRO during it's first year after release. Don't say that it did, because it didn't. LOTRO has proven itself as a model for others to follow and shows that great content can be added for free very regularly and you don't need 10 million subscribers to make it happen.
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The game itself isn't bad but the in-game community is by far the worst I have ever seen for a mmo.
Yeah, its incredibly elitist, crude, and in general very mean spirited.
In some crazy way I like it though, just don't take the people too seriously.
What it boils down to for me is WoW is one of the best produced products on the market I like reading some of these anti WoW posts that talk about all it's launch problems I do recall some servers having issues at launch but not the enitre game and after that most of it's problems were sheer popularity long wait times to getinto server and such most of what he said is true though it's easily accesible and right now offers maybe the widest range of working content as far as mmos go, the only game I can think of that wow in some ways makes it hard for is LOTRO they are really similar and it strikes me as a much more mature game I wish half the mature players in wow would give that game a go so it could shine too
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
I can only assume this line of thinking as pvp oriented since I'm notmuch of a pvper but I have seen comments like this before and have always wondered why anyone would be so concerned what euipmnt someone else has, now I'll give you that my wa y of thinking does not take pvp into consideration but at the same time unless you are in a server first guild you at sometime had to compete with those on par with you and you obviously did play to get to your particular power level so what is so wrong with doing it again?
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
I am glad that you at least are stating why the game has you liking it,no prob with that at all.It's better than most that just state it has more subs therefore it's a better game.
I'd like to break down the numbers and show why most don't relate to a good game whatsoever and that WOW fanbois are stretching to find a reason. They can't shake there addiction because fact is there friends are there and leaving all those high level classes is too painful.
1 Risk and yahtzee play perfect online and require nothing for a PC.It has no relation to a good game or massive subscriptions.
2 here we go again RIsk and yahtzee work and so does 95% of the games out there.This again does NOT set WOW apart from the rest of the gaming world.
3 kept up to date?well Runescape just updated there graphics and they have 1/50 th the cash flow WOW does,so why can't blizzard show respect to there player base?BTW that is why you pay a monthly fee for updates and an ongoing developer staff to look after the game,nothing new here that sets it apart from the rest.
4 This part i genuinely believe you when you say this.I have actually eluded to the fact that WOW's numbers kept rising JUST because there player base was large.This is a fact i have seen for several years ,and one i agree with.The problem is that the MMORPG player base chose to continually follow each other ,before giving other games a chance.Although this might be a legit reason to join the game it really is not an actual indication of the games quality.It is more so showing a fact that people will follow the masses,this is not only apparent in WOW but in other realms of real life.
5 yes i agree there game is complete.It very well should be since they copied the masters of RPG Everquest.They copied everything from EQ1 right down to the "T".Although it may be complete in respect to covering most bases,it really does not lend well to a team based game.Sure raiding requires a team but the core part of the game does not.After all this is suppose to be a MMORPG not a solo game that only gets together to raid.FFXI is truly the master of taking a game and designing it as a whole to be group oriented.There is NO argument about being hardcore or softcore,because it should be about longevity and NOT a race.Game's do not need to be designed to make casual players level fast..IT IS NOT A RACE.
6 LOL this part see above^^^^ IT IS NOT A RACE.You do NOT need to level fast and you do NOT need great rewards handed to you easily.If this was the case,would you pay blizzard 100 bucks to just hand you over a maxed out player and all the gear?Remove the whole core of the game and all players do is raid.Everyone one in the game would have the exact same gear and level ..lol.first person shooter anyone?
Little challenge,fast leveling is miles away from equating to a quality game.
7 UMM everything you mentioned is in FFXI and pretty much every game out there.I think this shows further that the OP was a follower to this game and did NO homework on the other games in the MMORPG genre.Actually FFXI has more content outside of normal levelling and crafting than prolly any game in the genre.Mobs attacking cities and outposts,assault,einjehar,ARENA fights...many many more ideas that WOW hasn't come close to.
8 i tend to not agree on this one at all.Sure beauty is in the eye of the beholder so i can't argue it is not good looking to you,it just is not to me.The textures are very poorly done and the player models are nothing at all.But like i said you find it good looking all the power to you.
9 I lend this part to the ease of leveling.Most players do seen to like things easy and given to them.They want to keep coming back to get that next level,that next ability or spell.This shows that a game has very weak content since all players want to do is get that next level.I know the ease of leveling is the addiction,my opinion of course since the OP didn't mention ANYTHING to say why it is addicting.
10 this topic most deffinately has nothing to do with a quality game.If cheap is all peeps care about go play F2P games,they cost you nothing.As far as the quality games go that have everythhing WOW does and more ,they cost the exact same thing to play.So even the cost of a quality game like WOW is matched many times over and lends no sole reason to join WOW over the other quality games.
To sum it up not one of the 10 topics had any merit over the other quality P2P games.Not one of them shows a reason to pick WOW over MANY other choices.As a matter of fact the one topic mentioned "It's Beautiful" can be easily matched or beat in some F2P games.I think the most accurate fact in all of this is the fact that players follow others to a BUSY game.If WOW didn't have the massive amount of subs ,i truly believe the game would have slowly died long ago.Players would not put up with the mediocre effort if the servers were dead.
Myself i quit WOW long ago and didn't put any merit into a full server being the reason i would stick with the very weak effort.Some like to call the game polished,i like to call it SIMPLETON.A total noob developer could have polished that effort since it has nothing ground breaking nor offers anything unique,i mean how could they possibly mess it up?
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
What strikes me most is that a big part of the critics said "they quit the game long ago".
They even come with old arguments that don't apply anymore.
In Wow 2008 you have different ways to acquire good gear (even the best). NO longer is it a pure raiding game.
Everything changed so much, these people are realy talking about different (old) game mechanics.
They don't know anything about the PVE badge system or the common tokens for different class loot, the daily quests (in every aspect of the game --- from open world pvp to professions), the very low "grind" feeling this game has now (because no one still bashes monsters just to grind these days).
So it is useless to even discuss the matters.
You know what?
You ALL know Blizzard right? From making great games right?
Well guess what ::: Blizzard adepted its MMO to a new level and so the old Wow is by NO means comparable to the 2008 version in its END game.
Gone are the days that epics were only for those who raided day and night (or did BG's day and night).
Blizzard added choices of play now that reduce enormously the grinding and augment the FUN factor of the game.
Because of this the vast majority of new and present generations playing Wow don't even mind the new tier gear sets in WotLK: on the contrary they await it with much eager.
It is useless to discuss with someone who talks of a game he played up until TBC (and 3 months afterwards). The mechanics changed and changed a lot. Patches 2.2, 2.3 and 2.4 were somtimes milestones in changes to the whole progress system of Wow (from useful crafting on the end game to complete server achievements of all players involved to 25 daily quests).
It is now possible to have very high PvP gear just by playing Arena or BG for 1 hour a day. But you better be good in your playing style or won't see some gear ... ever.
Call it the Blizzard touch. The same touch they gave to all their games.
Sigh: I guess you were surprised by my list....
I stated clearly that my extensive ( from above) but by no means exclusive list was ONLY from the last 12 months.
I showed you what a Wow user had as free new content over the peiod of ONE year (June to June 2008).
And believe it or not Blizzard had exaclty the same kind of massive content updates in its first year.
AB / AV was produced and a lot of the now infamous dungeons/raids were launched in its first year.
So compare and you"ll see the Wow player has had a LOT of free updates (and not even small ones), certainly comparable with other MMORPG"s.
Here is the info of 4 years of MAJOR patches (massive isn't it ?)
http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev/implemented/index.html
Happy scrolling.
AS you can see, Wow is already now on the 16th (!) free "book" of massive content updates.
Not even talking of the addition of a handfull quests/professions per update.
and EACH of these 16 has mostly 3 to 4 huge sub contents.
See... typing without knowing is always asking for more info.
There has been plenty of pre-expansion free content as well as post expansion free content in WoW. I'm not entirely sure of the time line, but I think in the first year Maraudon, Dire Maul, Outdoor world encounter dragons, War song gultch, Arathi Basin, Alterac Valley, Black wing lair and a few world event story lines were introduced. Again I'm not sure of the timeline, but I think Blizzard took a nice que from Asheron's Call [Turbine] with free content updates.
To be completely fair, LOTRO while it has added a lot of free content, it also released with a less than complete end game and somewhat lacking in the 35+ area. It is an example of a great launch though, don't get me wrong, but it was really in need of some of that free content to complete the base game. Not to downplay the path LOTRO is heading with what looks to be a winning strategy of the book updates every couple of months. I hope others follow suit.
To be honest Turbine was doing similiar styled free updates in Asheron's Call before these two games were even a thought. Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I think they were doing it on a monthly basis.
Boy, when you are a fanboy, you're REALLY a fanboy. Give me $150 million a month and I will create the greatest game ever made in the history of mankind as well as cure cancer the second month and defeat world famine after the third month.
Listen, I agree with you that Blizzard makes fun games. I agree with you that Blizzard has added content. I cannot agree that Blizzard free content compares or exceeds what LOTRO has had added to that game. I have played both games (as a raider). I've done WoW's original content updates for months and months. I can tell you, when Maraudon or Dire Maul came about you ran the dungeon, did your couple quests and repeated over and over and over and over until the next free content release 4 months later. There is not a feeling of satisfaciton from finishing DM once or 100 times, just like killing world dragons or running ZG for coins over and over and over and over.
Blizzard can make a polished game, but their core foundation is based on single player games. That is what they excel at. Sure you can play with others in Diablo or WC or SC, but they are still single player games that offer multiplayer. Blizzard does not understand how to run a massively multiplayer game.
The free content releases are due to the voice of the gamers who became bored with the existing content. Blizzard has always responded to unhappy players by tossing them a cookie when they get hungry.
Turbine, on the other hand, has always had an end goal in sight due to the LOTR IP. Turbine gauged how fast an average gamer would work through the story arcs and once the average gamer was finishing up the lore Turbine would put out an entire new portion of lore for gamers to follow. The content was not thrown at gamers because they are bored waiting for a new expansion. The content is released because it was meant to be released.
Turbine is a massively multiplayer game developer. They have made big mistakes in the past but at it's very foundation Turbine understands multiplayer. Blizzard is stil stuck in a Battlenet mentality.
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Yes, AC1 did have monthly 'events'. They weren't all content additions, but they were game altering events that, for better or worse, changed the entire future of the game.
I miss that...
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You can see the exact timeline and what contents being included (pre-BC) in the Patches list in WoWWiki.
For post BC patches, it's available here.
If anyone have similar list for LOTRO, please do share it as I'd really like to see it so I can do head-to-head comparison between the two.
I've been looking but can't find you a timeline for the patches. I don't know how you can compare the two, though. It would be like comparing apples to oranges. What would your criteria be? Length of time it takes to conquer the new content? Amount of gear released with the new areas? Land mass size? Number of releases?
I'm not sure how you'd compare the games' free content. I don't think releasing dragon world bosses could compare with the release of an entire land expansion and story-driven quest line. I also don't think releasing new instrument types can compare to releasing a raid dungeon.
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People just need to get over themselves.
1) Anyone can think any game is good. Personally, my favorites are LotRO, WoW and up until about a year ago SWG. Even after the NGE.When I get bored with one, I move on to another.
I don't want to fuck the same girl month after month, and I don't want to play the same game month after month, as once I get used to something, I tend to get bored with it. In both cases, I may return, I may not. I don't care about what anyone else says because :
2) You are posting on mmorpg.com, meaning you most likely play mmos, meaning you're a dork. Acting like you're better than someone because you dork out in a slightly different way just makes me laugh. Go polish your pocket protector Poindexter.
I've been looking but can't find you a timeline for the patches. I don't know how you can compare the two, though. It would be like comparing apples to oranges. What would your criteria be? Length of time it takes to conquer the new content? Amount of gear released with the new areas? Land mass size? Number of releases?
I'm not sure how you'd compare the games' free content. I don't think releasing dragon world bosses could compare with the release of an entire land expansion and story-driven quest line. I also don't think releasing new instrument types can compare to releasing a raid dungeon.
So, do we agree then~ that free contents from both games are not comparable and it's a bad idea to bring it up at the first place ?
Understatement of the century. The fact is you don't have a clue what WoW released in it's first year of existance and yet you somehow can compare it to what LOTRO released in that same time. How is this possible? Here's a partial list of what Blizzard added to WoW in it's first year.
6 new dungeons, (Mauradon, Dire Maul, Blackwing Lair, Zul'Gurub, Ruins of Ahn'Qiraj and Temple of Ahn,Qiraj), 1 zone overhaul (Silithus), 3 battlegrounds (Warsong Gulch, Arathi Basin and Alterac Valley) and 6 world bosses (Azuregos, Lord Kazzak, Ysondre, Lethon, Emeriss, Taerar).
And the following game improvements:
Meeting Stones, PVP Honor system, Battlemasters, Darkmoon Faire, Fishing Event, Dressing Rooms,
Class updates, tons of new items, item sets, mobs, story lines, etc.
That brought the totals at that time to 47 zones , 25 dungeons and 3 battlegrounds. What are the totals for LOTRO?
The second year was mostly the expansion TBC which added quite a bit of stuff. Here's a quick rundown:
2 new races. 13 new zones. 22 new dungeons. 1 new battleground. Cap raised to lvl 70. Flying Mounts. Jewelcrafting. Prospecting. Profession increased to 375. Heroic mode instances. Weather, Key rings, Eastern Plaguelands revamp, Cross Realm Battlegrounds, Arenas, LFG button, Sockets and gems, meeting stone summoning, more items, item sets, mobs, story lines, etc.
That brought the totals to that point to 60 zones, 47 dungeons and 4 battlegrounds. We'll see how LOTRO stacks up at the end of 2 years.
LOTRO model now includes doing annual retail expansions
www.massively.com/2008/03/14/more-mines-of-moria-information-revealed/
Annual expansions and quarterly episodic content (Books)
EQ2 fan sites
lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Patches
EQ2 fan sites
ok, i see one guy promoting WoW, and putting down other games, saying that they don't have what WoW has, but, the thing is, I will use the Wal-Mart ananology. When you want something fast, easy, but usually less rewarding in the end, you go to Wal-Mart. But when you want something a little bit differnet, in a way that Wal-Mart doesn't have, you go to a specialty store (ie, gamestop instead of Walmart game section) Do not put down other games because they do not do "everything" equeally like WoW, but they do several things exceptional.
And then I see promoting WoW on the same generic points over and over, and not saying much else, and I don't have that much pf a problem with it, just that it is to generic to make a debate over, and many things, other game have.
So lets end this at least, and let us stop dragging out all of these arguments on generic points by each side. so, lets end it, stop the flaming, and have a nice day
Saying that LOTRO is more than Wow in both content and game play value on a Wacrraft Forum (!!!!) is kind of trolling.
And saying that the copycat LOTRO is even more than Wow is, is a real laugh.
I saw the patches and 'books" of LOTRO and they don't come even close to WOW's content.
Just click above on the free content Blizzard delivered over these years.
The difference in content is staggering. LOTRO is not even a close second.
And just to show the quality difference between WOW and LOTRO:
In TBC Outland and now in the new Litch KING expansion, you can fly your personal epic mount and fly all over the continent and land everywhere you want (complete seamless open world- no loading screens).
This background loading in a FULL 3D landscape is complete UNKNOWN in the world of LOTRO and takes MASSIVE amounts of more programming time than the pseudo 2D frontiers every other fantasy MMORPG offers these days.
So IF there is fast food involved it CERTAINLY is with the LOTRO side, because of lack of these new developped techniques used since The Burning Crusade.