I can see where some people would think that WAR isn't all that some fans claim it is. Here are some of the things you can put on the scale: Things other MMO's have already done:
PvP Ranks (WoW to name one) PvP Experience City Sieges (Shadowbane did this a long time ago) Level-based progression (most MMO's) Talent Trees (Many MMO's) Hybrid Classes (DAoC, AoC, EQ2, and some lesser-known games) RvR (DAoC, Regnum, and even WoW. WAR's RvR is only 2-sided.) Questing (most MMO's)
So, there doesn't seem to be much in the way of innovation when it comes to WAR. Yes, they have Public Quests, and that's a neat idea. I'll give you that. But they also don't have some of the things that ARE present in some of the current MMO's; many things players consider to add to the gameplay or immersion. What WAR doesn't have:
Reactionary skills (such as in LotRO) Player Housing Player Cities Developed system for crafters (not that I'm aware of anyway) Non-combat activities (fishing, gardening, etc.) Characters integrated into the storyline (as in FFXI or LotRO)
Now, I know that some details can't be given away without breaking the NDA, but what can anyone offer that WAR has which makes it more than just another fantasy clone with a different coat of paint? I look forward to the open beta when I can see for myself how the "fun" factor really plays out. But for now I don't see them doing anything impressive.
1. Reactionary Skills- Generaly awful in MMO's due to ping/lag but for the sake of argument we will have to wait for NDA
2. Player Housing doesn't work to well in the way the game is designed. Your home is your city so defend it. I will be the first to say that in other games Player housing can be really important or a really awesome thing but I don't see it fitting into WAR.
3. Player cities- Again its RvR so giving people cities to defend detracts from then defending the realm city. Not to mention you need to carve out a huge plot of landscape to put these things on. Again good idea in other games but doesn't fit in the RvR WAR design.
4. It has a crafting system. The crafts are used specifically for RvR and there isn't professions that will be sidlined or be completely useless. Crafting isn't the focus of the game though so if you expect that go play something else.
5. Noncombat activities- This is WAR...there is no non combat activities. If you want to pick flowers or go fishing then do it in another game because WAR is about killing things.
6. Characters in the storyline you will have to explain a bit further. The entire story of WAR is to kill your enemy. I don't quite know how you can integrate the players into the storyline.
I think people are trying to place hopes in WAR for things they shouldn't. If you like PvP, RvR, killing stuff, and large battles then WAR is probably the game for you. If you like crafting, a 3d chat room, player housing to decorate, etc then WAR is not for you. I don't like people picking at a game for things that were never meant for the game to begin with. I mean its like condemning your game console because it can't make hot cocoa. It was never meant to and thinking it was going to is just stupid.
Also they stated you don't even have to do quest. You can PvP from level 1 to max level. So you can already tell this game is going to just be a zergfest from launch with tons of people running around. If that's content... *shrug* Then I'm Mike Tyson. I guess we've been spoon fed less content then that and people still ponied up the cash.
You know, I remember hearing that you can PvP from level 1 in the game as well, but I haven't actually heard any details on that or whether they are keeping true to that statement. Does anyone know if this is in fact true or have any links to statements about it? Can you actually start to PvP and advance right out of the gate, or has that changed to require you to wait for a later character level?
Also they stated you don't even have to do quest. You can PvP from level 1 to max level. So you can already tell this game is going to just be a zergfest from launch with tons of people running around. If that's content... *shrug* Then I'm Mike Tyson. I guess we've been spoon fed less content then that and people still ponied up the cash.
So you'd rather be forced to PvE than have choices...LOL
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
most likely you will have to wait for the NDA to lift to learn about that.
I know right now, just for the sake of trying, I'll level two toons, one normally (mix of pve and pvp), and one through only PvP lol, just to see how hard it is.
Also they stated you don't even have to do quest. You can PvP from level 1 to max level. So you can already tell this game is going to just be a zergfest from launch with tons of people running around. If that's content... *shrug* Then I'm Mike Tyson. I guess we've been spoon fed less content then that and people still ponied up the cash.
You know, I remember hearing that you can PvP from level 1 in the game as well, but I haven't actually heard any details on that or whether they are keeping true to that statement. Does anyone know if this is in fact true or have any links to statements about it? Can you actually start to PvP and advance right out of the gate, or has that changed to require you to wait for a later character level?
you can do it 1-40. Josh said that it's the way Jeff levels. Can't remember which video
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
Also they stated you don't even have to do quest. You can PvP from level 1 to max level. So you can already tell this game is going to just be a zergfest from launch with tons of people running around. If that's content... *shrug* Then I'm Mike Tyson. I guess we've been spoon fed less content then that and people still ponied up the cash.
They already stated you CAN pvp your way to 40. However they suggest a mix of the two as being more fun and easier.
In Daoc, you could level with only PVP. But ti was not fun , nor was it fast.
Zerg's are going to happen in any large scale PvP game. It's what they do with the game as far a strategy that keeps people from less zerging.
Also they stated you don't even have to do quest. You can PvP from level 1 to max level. So you can already tell this game is going to just be a zergfest from launch with tons of people running around. If that's content... *shrug* Then I'm Mike Tyson. I guess we've been spoon fed less content then that and people still ponied up the cash.
So you'd rather be forced to PvE than have choices...LOL
Not saying that...
I am an old school player... Perhaps just set in my ways a little. But if I wanted PvP from the get go, I would go back to Guild Wars. That's free to play (No fees).
I'm just asking... is that really content? It sounds as it's going to sell a lot, but how much of that can you really sell without actually trying to sell the other shoe?
What I'm getting at is this... all I hear about is RVR... what else is there? That's their key seller... RVR
I have only really played WOW, and can say it is a great game, however it has its flaws.
Having levelled a Shadow Priest to raid Black Temple (end Game content) and being very active in WOW's pvp too, I can say that WOW has many imperfections in pvp. The arena system in WOW is biased towards certain classes, and the classes themselves are not properly balanced from a pvp perspective.
Perhaps the most disappointing thing that WOW's pvp has, is that all those hours spent in the 4 battlegrounds does nothing to impact the outside world of Warcraft.
I have been following the development of Warhammer closely, and find this pvp based game to be very promising, and the RvR aspect of the game so much rewarding. To me, raiding in a 25 man raid group is alot of fun in taking down end game Bosses, but nothing compares to fighting other players whose actions are unpredictable.
My only concern with warhammer is if the pvp combat system is user friendly and the classes are balanced. I have not been able to find information about this online so far.
Also they stated you don't even have to do quest. You can PvP from level 1 to max level. So you can already tell this game is going to just be a zergfest from launch with tons of people running around. If that's content... *shrug* Then I'm Mike Tyson. I guess we've been spoon fed less content then that and people still ponied up the cash.
They already stated you CAN pvp your way to 40. However they suggest a mix of the two as being more fun and easier.
In Daoc, you could level with only PVP. But ti was not fun , nor was it fast.
Zerg's are going to happen in any large scale PvP game. It's what they do with the game as far a strategy that keeps people from less zerging.
best example is what happened to Alterac Valley in WoW
It was supposed to be an epic battle (kinda like WAR would have) between two groups of 40 players, with constant fighting and tugging, until one side managed to pull an ace out and kill the general of the other side. Now... its a zergfest to see who can kill the last guy faster lol
I have only really played WOW, and can say it is a great game, however it has its flaws. Having levelled a Shadow Priest to raid Black Temple (end Game content) and being very active in WOW's pvp too, I can say that WOW has many imperfections in pvp. The arena system in WOW is biased towards certain classes, and the classes themselves are not properly balanced from a pvp perspective. Perhaps the most disappointing thing that WOW's pvp has, is that all those hours spent in the 4 battlegrounds does nothing to impact the outside world of Warcraft. I have been following the development of Warhammer closely, and find this pvp based game to be very promising, and the RvR aspect of the game so much rewarding. To me, raiding in a 25 man raid group is alot of fun in taking down end game Bosses, but nothing compares to fighting other players whose actions are unpredictable. My only concern with warhammer is if the pvp combat system is user friendly and the classes are balanced. I have not been able to find information about this online so far.
WoW's PvP is imperfect because it was supposed to be a PvE game from the start, but the devs slowly worked in PvP, battlegrounds were alright, but once Blizz threw in Arenas and saw that it could be viable as an Esport, they drooled and started fckin around with classes trying to make them balanced for Arena, and screwed up some PvE balance.
and the reason you cant find out if classes are balanced and such is because its in closed beta still, talking about the classes would break the NDA I assume, so of course it isnt available.
Some of you are obviously threatened by a good mmo other than WoW. I played DAOC and can't wait for WAR. The PVP in WoW is just horrible. World PVP is non-existant. The Arenas are stupid as hell and the battleground rewards pale by comparison to the small boring Arena play. Say hello to increased que times when WAR comes out.
Also they stated you don't even have to do quest. You can PvP from level 1 to max level. So you can already tell this game is going to just be a zergfest from launch with tons of people running around. If that's content... *shrug* Then I'm Mike Tyson. I guess we've been spoon fed less content then that and people still ponied up the cash.
So you'd rather be forced to PvE than have choices...LOL
Not saying that...
I am an old school player... Perhaps just set in my ways a little. But if I wanted PvP from the get go, I would go back to Guild Wars. That's free to play (No fees).
I'm just asking... is that really content? It sounds as it's going to sell a lot, but how much of that can you really sell without actually trying to sell the other shoe?
What I'm getting at is this... all I hear about is RVR... what else is there? That's their key seller... RVR
Don't throw around RvR like it's PvP. RvR encompasses PvE AND PvP. RvR is the PQs, the dungeons, the keep sieges, the senarios, the city sieges, the open world combat. Until you realize that RvR isn't just PvP...you will only see RvR as large-scale PvP...and it's not.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
There are a lot of WOW pvp' players already talking about WAR, and if War lives up to its promises ( I so hope it does) WOW will loose many of its pvp'ers...
Warning: I am Dissing WAR I honestly forsee this game being very bad, ive researched it quite a bit and i'm sure this forum wouldnt agree with me seeing as im not gonna bash wow in this thread but i just forsee WAR being a big dissapointment, it's going to be a grind, no lie - dont tell yourself it wont be, beta gamers can vouche for it, not only will it be a grind, it'll be a slow grind, with classes overranking each other. Certain classes as in all games will be played over others, but in a game like this where things like the squig herder is against a shaman for dps it's obvious the shaman will be played more often "well it's all about your play style, that dictates what will be played over other classes" Not really!! look at other games, one class is always praised over others and with a system with this with so many "unique" classes *cough* old classes being renamed *cough* many gamers will be swayed into playing the highly advertised classes like the marauder and the shaman but in all honesty the game will just be another ticktacktoe grinder ( i dunno if that's a new term it just made sense to me) Tank goes in, dps goes in, healer heals, mob dead, rinse repeat Now to compare it to everyone's favorite ashtray WoW, people complain about battlegrounds in wow, but look at the pvp videos released on WAR it looks exactly like a battleground mixed with an fps kind of landscape so it's like runescape+gunz. I dunno about all of you but i really do just see this game being another pain of a grinder with lack luster quests being shaded by the idea that "lore makes a game" which is utter bull, look how succesful wow is - the only thing most gamers know about Warcraft lore was obtained from warcraft 1 through 3. So sure it'll have a ton of subscriptions.. i mean who isnt looking for something good? i'm just saying it wont live as long or as steadily as many other games such as everquest 2 or guild wars for that matter..
flame away
How can you say that it will be a bad game? You've never played it yet, and honestly, have u ever played DAoC?
That statement may prove to be very true indeed. There are a lot of WOW pvp' players already talking about WAR, and if War lives up to its promises ( I so hope it does) WOW will loose many of its pvp'ers...
best thing is, that the players speaking of WAR are the ones who are S4geared arena junkies, so its a win-win for me.
No more arena junkies mean if I decide to try arena, I wont have to worry about being put up against a bunch of S4 geared ppl who just made a new team for fun.
And it'll be a new and interesting MMO for me to try out with at least an equal footing against them (hopefully lol)
People who didn't play DAOC is thinking the same thing about this game as they were thinking about DAOC.
All, they hear is RVR, RVR, people killing other people, with little information about PVE stuff.
DAOC was the same way . RVR RVR RVR. Mythic would mostly talk RVr and so would the player because it was cool. But in DAOC all 3 realms had their own leveling spots. They each had their own dungeons. Each had their own class epic quest lines. In expansions they had large scale raids. They had dragon fights that worked just like "world bosses" in Wow.
Now with all that said. The Raids that were added and the other PVE stuff they developed over the years was awesome. However , guilds started raiding all the time. Small groups were no longer roaming RVR areas because they were in safe zones getting artifacts.
WAR hopefully is balancing the two. They will still have tons of PVE things to do just like DAOC. However two key differences.
1. Any high end content will be in the Cities. If guilds want to see high end content they need to attack and defend capitals.
2. Every, including PVE content revolves around RvR and helps toward the ultimate goals. You raid dungeons for not only you and your guild but the realm as a whole.
Like Capn said. When they say RvR, they aren't talking just about PvP and keep sieges. They are talking about the whole war effort. Crafting, dungeons, your solo quests, are all tied into it.
if only man, i heard they pay well - but no i just honestly dont see WAR being a good game
Very well
But seriously, what is the point of your thread. You don't think it will be good, so what, why make a thread about it?
Everyone has a different opinion, and most will disagree with you apart from the WoW fanboys.
forums are used to express opinions, i'd like to see what people actually beleive, but most people see cute screenshots and say "holy hell this game is gonna be teh kingz mein, i haz pre-ordered it"
I play it, I play it alot.. Its good and thats all I can say. Oh how it pains me keeping my mouth shut and not being able to respond to these theoretical threads, whether good or bad.
Comments
Also they stated you don't even have to do quest. You can PvP from level 1 to max level.
So you can already tell this game is going to just be a zergfest from launch with tons of people running around.
If that's content... *shrug* Then I'm Mike Tyson.
I guess we've been spoon fed less content then that and people still ponied up the cash.
1. Reactionary Skills- Generaly awful in MMO's due to ping/lag but for the sake of argument we will have to wait for NDA
2. Player Housing doesn't work to well in the way the game is designed. Your home is your city so defend it. I will be the first to say that in other games Player housing can be really important or a really awesome thing but I don't see it fitting into WAR.
3. Player cities- Again its RvR so giving people cities to defend detracts from then defending the realm city. Not to mention you need to carve out a huge plot of landscape to put these things on. Again good idea in other games but doesn't fit in the RvR WAR design.
4. It has a crafting system. The crafts are used specifically for RvR and there isn't professions that will be sidlined or be completely useless. Crafting isn't the focus of the game though so if you expect that go play something else.
5. Noncombat activities- This is WAR...there is no non combat activities. If you want to pick flowers or go fishing then do it in another game because WAR is about killing things.
6. Characters in the storyline you will have to explain a bit further. The entire story of WAR is to kill your enemy. I don't quite know how you can integrate the players into the storyline.
I think people are trying to place hopes in WAR for things they shouldn't. If you like PvP, RvR, killing stuff, and large battles then WAR is probably the game for you. If you like crafting, a 3d chat room, player housing to decorate, etc then WAR is not for you. I don't like people picking at a game for things that were never meant for the game to begin with. I mean its like condemning your game console because it can't make hot cocoa. It was never meant to and thinking it was going to is just stupid.
You know, I remember hearing that you can PvP from level 1 in the game as well, but I haven't actually heard any details on that or whether they are keeping true to that statement. Does anyone know if this is in fact true or have any links to statements about it? Can you actually start to PvP and advance right out of the gate, or has that changed to require you to wait for a later character level?
Way to be a wow fanboi.
ColdSun
So you'd rather be forced to PvE than have choices...LOL
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
most likely you will have to wait for the NDA to lift to learn about that.
I know right now, just for the sake of trying, I'll level two toons, one normally (mix of pve and pvp), and one through only PvP lol, just to see how hard it is.
You know, I remember hearing that you can PvP from level 1 in the game as well, but I haven't actually heard any details on that or whether they are keeping true to that statement. Does anyone know if this is in fact true or have any links to statements about it? Can you actually start to PvP and advance right out of the gate, or has that changed to require you to wait for a later character level?
you can do it 1-40. Josh said that it's the way Jeff levels. Can't remember which video
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
They already stated you CAN pvp your way to 40. However they suggest a mix of the two as being more fun and easier.
In Daoc, you could level with only PVP. But ti was not fun , nor was it fast.
Zerg's are going to happen in any large scale PvP game. It's what they do with the game as far a strategy that keeps people from less zerging.
So you'd rather be forced to PvE than have choices...LOL
Not saying that...
I am an old school player... Perhaps just set in my ways a little. But if I wanted PvP from the get go, I would go back to Guild Wars. That's free to play (No fees).
I'm just asking... is that really content? It sounds as it's going to sell a lot, but how much of that can you really sell without actually trying to sell the other shoe?
What I'm getting at is this... all I hear about is RVR... what else is there? That's their key seller... RVR
Regarding Warhammer
I have only really played WOW, and can say it is a great game, however it has its flaws.
Having levelled a Shadow Priest to raid Black Temple (end Game content) and being very active in WOW's pvp too, I can say that WOW has many imperfections in pvp. The arena system in WOW is biased towards certain classes, and the classes themselves are not properly balanced from a pvp perspective.
Perhaps the most disappointing thing that WOW's pvp has, is that all those hours spent in the 4 battlegrounds does nothing to impact the outside world of Warcraft.
I have been following the development of Warhammer closely, and find this pvp based game to be very promising, and the RvR aspect of the game so much rewarding. To me, raiding in a 25 man raid group is alot of fun in taking down end game Bosses, but nothing compares to fighting other players whose actions are unpredictable.
My only concern with warhammer is if the pvp combat system is user friendly and the classes are balanced. I have not been able to find information about this online so far.
They already stated you CAN pvp your way to 40. However they suggest a mix of the two as being more fun and easier.
In Daoc, you could level with only PVP. But ti was not fun , nor was it fast.
Zerg's are going to happen in any large scale PvP game. It's what they do with the game as far a strategy that keeps people from less zerging.
best example is what happened to Alterac Valley in WoW
It was supposed to be an epic battle (kinda like WAR would have) between two groups of 40 players, with constant fighting and tugging, until one side managed to pull an ace out and kill the general of the other side. Now... its a zergfest to see who can kill the last guy faster lol
Yes, Jeff says it on just about every video he is on. He loves making the "you can pvp to 40 if you wanted to" statement.
Josh said it the video from this thread (he is quoting Jeff lol).
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/239/view/forums/thread/191491
WoW's PvP is imperfect because it was supposed to be a PvE game from the start, but the devs slowly worked in PvP, battlegrounds were alright, but once Blizz threw in Arenas and saw that it could be viable as an Esport, they drooled and started fckin around with classes trying to make them balanced for Arena, and screwed up some PvE balance.
and the reason you cant find out if classes are balanced and such is because its in closed beta still, talking about the classes would break the NDA I assume, so of course it isnt available.
Some of you are obviously threatened by a good mmo other than WoW. I played DAOC and can't wait for WAR. The PVP in WoW is just horrible. World PVP is non-existant. The Arenas are stupid as hell and the battleground rewards pale by comparison to the small boring Arena play. Say hello to increased que times when WAR comes out.
ColdSun
So you'd rather be forced to PvE than have choices...LOL
Not saying that...
I am an old school player... Perhaps just set in my ways a little. But if I wanted PvP from the get go, I would go back to Guild Wars. That's free to play (No fees).
I'm just asking... is that really content? It sounds as it's going to sell a lot, but how much of that can you really sell without actually trying to sell the other shoe?
What I'm getting at is this... all I hear about is RVR... what else is there? That's their key seller... RVR
Don't throw around RvR like it's PvP. RvR encompasses PvE AND PvP. RvR is the PQs, the dungeons, the keep sieges, the senarios, the city sieges, the open world combat. Until you realize that RvR isn't just PvP...you will only see RvR as large-scale PvP...and it's not.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
Say Hello to increased queue times.....lol
That statement may prove to be very true indeed.
There are a lot of WOW pvp' players already talking about WAR, and if War lives up to its promises ( I so hope it does) WOW will loose many of its pvp'ers...
How can you say that it will be a bad game? You've never played it yet, and honestly, have u ever played DAoC?
best thing is, that the players speaking of WAR are the ones who are S4geared arena junkies, so its a win-win for me.
No more arena junkies mean if I decide to try arena, I wont have to worry about being put up against a bunch of S4 geared ppl who just made a new team for fun.
And it'll be a new and interesting MMO for me to try out with at least an equal footing against them (hopefully lol)
People who didn't play DAOC is thinking the same thing about this game as they were thinking about DAOC.
All, they hear is RVR, RVR, people killing other people, with little information about PVE stuff.
DAOC was the same way . RVR RVR RVR. Mythic would mostly talk RVr and so would the player because it was cool. But in DAOC all 3 realms had their own leveling spots. They each had their own dungeons. Each had their own class epic quest lines. In expansions they had large scale raids. They had dragon fights that worked just like "world bosses" in Wow.
Now with all that said. The Raids that were added and the other PVE stuff they developed over the years was awesome. However , guilds started raiding all the time. Small groups were no longer roaming RVR areas because they were in safe zones getting artifacts.
WAR hopefully is balancing the two. They will still have tons of PVE things to do just like DAOC. However two key differences.
1. Any high end content will be in the Cities. If guilds want to see high end content they need to attack and defend capitals.
2. Every, including PVE content revolves around RvR and helps toward the ultimate goals. You raid dungeons for not only you and your guild but the realm as a whole.
Like Capn said. When they say RvR, they aren't talking just about PvP and keep sieges. They are talking about the whole war effort. Crafting, dungeons, your solo quests, are all tied into it.
Very well
But seriously, what is the point of your thread. You don't think it will be good, so what, why make a thread about it?
Everyone has a different opinion, and most will disagree with you apart from the WoW fanboys.
forums are used to express opinions, i'd like to see what people actually beleive, but most people see cute screenshots and say "holy hell this game is gonna be teh kingz mein, i haz pre-ordered it"
I play it, I play it alot.. Its good and thats all I can say. Oh how it pains me keeping my mouth shut and not being able to respond to these theoretical threads, whether good or bad.
and its even worse for me since I get to see you guys saying you cant say anything about the beta...
He is an unbeliever!!!
that sir, if I was drinking something, would of made me spit it out in a spray all over my comp from laughter
That picture is hillarious... I am still laughing hahaha