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Why is WoW Serving more PvP then PvE in New Expansion? Maybe Because of WAR?
nickman1993
Member Posts: 287
I have been looking into the new WOTLK expansion and most of the things there adding are for PvP. Yes i know there is a whole new area and class but there still seems to be more and bigger PvP upgrades.
Anyone know why? Is it because they need to keep up with WAR? discus
Comments
Probably. They think keeping you boxed into one PvP zone will satisfy all the world-PvP hunger needs. Though all it'll be is Death Knights and Priests and maybe Resto Druids running around.
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A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
people are getting bored of raiding theyv had enough of it blizz is aiming for proffesional pvping like guildwars people play the game to make money it will attract alot of people people will play it and make proffesional pvp teams so on
Is that a question?
You say all on the subject line ...
Theres also, maybe, a sea change on the MMO market: there are much more PVP players now. Lots of people (I am one) have evolved from pve players to pvp players in the search of fun.
The best feature of WotLK will be the choice between 10 men raid and 25 men raid.
Add to this the "badge" loot system and you could say they are creating 5 or 6 "Karazhan" raids to make the game even more accessible in PVE content.
The experience they had with arena (and the interaction of the classes in 3vs3 and 5 vs5) it is just logical they added a good defined world PvP area to use these stats.
Add to this the D-day landings of the new BG and they will win both playing styles.
MMORPG's these days is the NUMBER of choices you give to your paying customers.
With WotLK Blizzard is saying: you want to play this way? well we have it in stock.
Be it solo, group, 10 men raid, 25 men raid, instanced PvP, open world PvP, arena.
If they use the same politics they used since patch 2.2 with the crafting that adapts itself to the latest high gear with each patch : WotlK will be a dream come true: the player just decides what he likes most and plays accordingly.
EDIT: Just read in another thread they will even add more to professions, so wow.
Yeah I have to agree with Vicksburg (I feel dirty).
It would be misleading to say the expansion is mostly about PVP when in fact there are a lot of drastic changes taking place on the PVE side.
"Why is WoW Serving more PvP then PvE in New Expansion? Maybe Because of WAR?"
If you are right, then blizz will fail.
Blizz should aim at making this a PvE game 100%... Warhammer Online is going to take the "pro" pvpers.
This doesn't mean WoW wont be as popular or as good, raiding dungeons will never get old.
Warhammer Online
Crnobog, The Black God
Chaos Chosen
<Guildless>
LOL
Pro PvP players?: these are already engaged in the professional (read money driven) Wow arena circuit.
Please check the web.
And WAR has a BIG problem in their PvP because their fights are far too slow and too static.
PvP - the real hardcore PvP - players want fast, tense, hectic fighting scenes. Not animation of stiff puppets and "floating" characters over the battle terrain.
I gave one example as shown in a WAR video ; a wizzard in WAR takes a 25 step stairs and he does it with exactly 2.5 passes. Taking 10 steps in one pass...???
The avatar "floats" over the stairs, never has a grip on the terrain he's walking over.
Add the slow, stiff and clunky fighting and than compare it with the tense Youtube Arena fights.
It's simple : OR Mythic changes the fighting speeds and movements of their avatars OR they could be in for a real surprise.
Vicks, I'm in beta for WAR, I don't believe you are. I see a lot of potential in this game to be successful in the MMO market. As successful as WoW? Maybe not but who really knows.
I do see the RvR experience to be very engaging and definiately not "slow and static". What was slow and static about it? When I play, I am constantly moving and thinking of strategies to stay alive and kill the opponents. I can tell you that the fights are not drawn out or boring. You don't two-three shot someone and move on to crush others. Even if someone is a few levels higher, they won't defeat you so quickly. You most likely will have help, in the scenarios, and depending how much help you have, you should be able to take them on and win within a minute or less (rough estimate). I've played WoW for quite a while, I've played DAoC for quite a while, I think I'll be playing WAR for quite a while as well.
Oh and as for the "avatar floating on the stairs", it's closed beta. It'll most likely be taken care of before release.
WoTLK is Blizz trying to stem the inevitable tide of people that don't want another 10 level, 50 rep grind, multiple instance run grind fest. They toss in a few "PVP" centric events that really don't matter a hill of beans, just new ways to get gear and they believe that will be enough.
It's not. But for many it will hold them over for a while. But IMHO those that enjoy the limited PVP aspects of the WOW x-pac will end up giving WAR a try, and well, I think that in a way, WOW's efforts to counter WAR's superior game play will, well frankly backfire on them.
Just to give you an idea, I cancled my WOW account after I got into the WAR beta. I just didn't see any reason to log back in. My characters are 2 lvl 70 mages, horde and alliance. I have the WOW original CE.
Always change your signature.
Blizzard only needs to do TWO things to prevent people from leaving WotLK for Warhammer.
1 - release on time with as few bugs as possible
2 - have all the features promised
That's it. Funcom failed, we will see how Mythic fares next.
Yes.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'd like it if they put more incentives to raid enemy cities.
Theres only one class that move like that. .
If you don't lilke that class, chose any other class.
PvP in WotLK: Lake Wintergrasp (world PvP with siege vehicles), 2 Arenas, 1 Battleground.
PvE in WotLK: 10 new levels, Achievements system, a score of new 5-man dungeons, a bunch of 10/25 man dungeons, new class, new profession, a new continent (except Lake Winergrasp which is PvP)...
I don't see that there's more PvP than PvE in that expansion, but maybe I'm missing something?
Edit: and as for picking on WAR PvP, how about letting the game come out in its finished state before comparing it to WoW? I'm sure both WAR and WoW PvP will have its supporters, and the sooner the supporters of each can accept that the better for both. ;-)
The Ultimate Failure of WoW PvP
No Massive Objective Based World PvP
The lack of world PvP objectives that actually mean something besides some PvE quest/buff or subpar items in endgame is laughable. Futhermore, they have packaged all the endgame PvP into 4 BGs and arenas. This has depleted world PvP together with the lack of world PvP objectives and flying mounts.
Besides ganking and incidental world PvP in the course of levelling or acquiring PvE based objectives, world PvP is a joke. The main problem was making it item and PvE orientated.
The ONE new PvP zone in WOTLK Lake Wintergrasp will probably be another transient, loot and scoot item grind and has come too little, too late.
Endgame PvP is 4 BGs + Arenas
The lack of expansion of PvP vs PvE is alarming. All WoW is doing is upgrading items sets without adding any new PvP content. In so 4 years there are only 4 BGs and Arena as the staple end-game PvP.
Face it, WoW is not a PvP centric game and never will be. They have made PvP into a casual friendly small circuit, instanced item grindfest.
Arenas were fun when they started but the gladiatorial style of PvP in now way substitutes for true MMO PvP entirely and should not.
WoW makes you play the same 4 BG and arena 2394023948023948240398 times. The reason being they are too lazy to implement new PvP content and try to draw out their existing content by making people play the same thing a gabazillion times. This farce continues as more arena seasons roll buy with casual friendly arena gear being handed out like candy.
They have no clue how to tackle or implement good large scale PvP content or add any PvP progression other than item based, and face it WoW isn't built for it either.
Alas,
Gone are the days of massive keep battles with upwards of 10 guild sieging a castle or keep.
Gone are the days of massive standoffs at takeover points where you see a frontline of massive amounts of people defending and attacking. Goading each other and trying to find weak spots to charge.
Gone is the realm pride where you coordinated with a ton of other people from different guilds with the same objectives to takeover the enemies key points and achieved it.
Gone is the comraderie that ensues when the horde enemy is nigh and you look at your realm mates next you you as you prepare for the final stand in a small room.
Gone are the tears of joy which erupt when the battle is won versus far superior number by skill, kiting and choke point control.
Bring back the days of ole, where sword over sword and staff over staff ring a hundred man strong along the battlefield.
Where hundreds of arrows whizz overhead as archers line the parapats of the castles and keeps defending them with their bows.
Bring back the days of massive battles, keep sieges and territory control.
Bring back truely massive player versus player combat.
Icky. I hate people who think this...
I think WoW is focusing on PvP because it currently sucks, still. Maybe some balance of features shall do the trick?
Hate me, i'll get over it.
And yes, WoW PvP does currently suck and imo its because it has become old. WSG/AB/AV... 3 years later, its still the same and lets face it, its not the most fun thing to do. Earn a bit of honor and some marks, only to get gear ready for Arena. Oh, and EoTS... just the same old crap done slightly differently. Now imo the Arena is even worse. Its so textbook that you only need to read wowwiki articles and your a pro overnight. Resto Druids are massively OP so everyone more or less has one in their team which forces games to take far too long. Don't get me wrong, long battles can be fun, but not in this game.
For WoW to go down to PvP route, they need some world PvP because the truth is, PvPers are bored of this game and will not go from S1/2/3/4 etc... forever.
Its even gotten that bad, people are making twinks for the low level battlegrounds because their bored at 70. But with all the twinks, a normal player has no chance.
These are the reasons why i think blizzard would be better off sticking to their raids.
Warhammer Online
Crnobog, The Black God
Chaos Chosen
<Guildless>
This topic sucks. This thread sucks too. OP you suck
If they had released an expansion that focused on an open, objectives based war between horde and alliance, with objectives, consequences and the ability to "win" sheerly to win...
Wait, that wouldn't work. That would hose Arena balance, and without the gainof uber gear... and the realm pop imbalnces...
Never mind, WoW PVP is all about small scale, gear induced epeen contests that only matter on how much ugly rehashed 1% better gear you can get.
Carry on.
Always change your signature.
TLDR; Mostly because casual players play more PVP than PVE, and it was already time to implement some pvp stuff, not some crap AB+WSG...
It has nothing to do with WAR, both are different games, probably most PVP players from wow are going to move to WAR anyway.
This....
I think both games have their pos's/neg's.
I don't want to see a repeat of tBC with WoW, though. The whole concept of needing to repeat instances or quests multiple times to grind 'rep' really gets on my nerves. While I'm all about making instances fun and challenging enough that you want to run them more than once... forcing players to repeat instances = boredom.
What will make WotLK attractive to gamers is it's 'newness'. But if you have to do things many times over and over to really achieve anything in the expansion, then that really hurts the game in my opinion. I don't want things to be quick/easy in the expansion, but I'd rather not have to repeat my in-game experience over and over each time I log in... for days/weeks on end... just to achieve 'reputation'.
There's little or no doubt that WAR would feature at least some type of 'grind/rep' system. But if the rest of the game is solid and shows some improvements over WoW... then I think the game has a shot at being a contender.
I log into WoW now and I'm bored to tears. Guilds are breaking up or simply taking breaks or whatever. It's actually hard to find groups for certain instances.... especially if you want to avoid PUG'ing. So, for a game with 10,000,000 people... finding 4 others has been rough lately. I'm sure there will be a flood of players at the launch of WAR and WotLK.... but for now, the community seems pretty thin, imho.
The PvE elements in WOTLK are just as strong as they were in TBC, if not stronger. The fact they are doing even more for PvP this time around doesn't mean the game is serving PvP players more than PvE players.
The Burning Crusade sold absolutely shitloads of copies, broke sales records, and all of that. Blizzard can absolutely afford to spend more money this time to give players more options than ever before, for both PvP and PvE. It is in their interest to do this, so that when expansion 3,4,5... etc comes around, people will still be inclined to buy them in ridiculously high numbers.
Blizzard have admitted there were things about the first expansion that they could have done better, hopefully the 2nd expansion will improve on the areas TBC didn't quite get right - specifically PvP for hardcore PvPers outside of the Arena Ladders.
If you're an old school EQ player like me, you will remember Velious - the 2nd expansion being absolutely the best expansion of that game, the pinnacle of the "classic" EQ era. WOTLK is also a winter themed, 2nd expansion, I absolutely believe this will be the pinnacle of WoW.
WOTLK will be probably the best period of the game for those that still play it. After the 3rd expansion I think that there might actually be decent competition around to give players some real choice. Even if WAR doesn't succeed straight away, it's possible it could become a cult hit and grow like EVE online has.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Dude, that's my new sig line.
Always change your signature.
While I agree with the rest of your post, this I feel like commenting on. How exactly would Blizzard go about achieving this, without repetition, and not making it quick/easy to get? Implement 100 quests for reputation? Even then if you want to go more in depth, you would have repetition in "Kill X many mobs for Y loot", etc.