Can someone please name 1 MMO where you are forced to do anything?
If not being forced into a linear track defines sandbox then all MMOs are sandbox, if the ability to shape the world has some part in it, well that is a different story.
I feel you are being intentionally obtuse. You understand quite well what the term sandbox game means but are trying to push a counterpoint for no reason.
OK, I'll play along. Age of Conan. I want to be a gem crafter. Oh wait...to be a gem crafter I must reach level 40. How do I get to level 40? By either running quests or grinding mobs until I gain enough experience to reach it.
Contrast that with EVE. I can start with a brand new character, virtually never leave the station, do absolutely nothing, and given enough time to train, have the skills to build Battleships. Oh, but to build battleships I need blue prints and materials.
Well, how do I get them? Do I have to run quests and grind npc's? Well, maybe. That's one way for sure. But perhaps I'll decide to play the market instead, and get rich buying low and selling high. Or maybe I'll become a miner and earn ISK/materials that way.
Maybe I'll be a pirate, and earn my money by stealing from others. Maybe I'll be a corporate spy, and get myself in good with some corporation and once they trust me, steal all their stuff from the corp hanger and get insta rich.
Or maybe I'll build my own empire, with a corporation and then an alliance at my command, and I'll tax all their efforts and make them pay me so I can use it to build my Battleships.
Or...(whew, too many choices) I could train up scouting/exploration skills and go look for hidden complexes and ships to steal or discover cool new gas fields which I can sell to some miner...so I can go back and build my battleships.
Or...I could decide to scam noobs, try to sell them a cheap, worthless ship for the price of a better one. Alls' fair in love and EVE, and many a person's gotten rich selling ships worth 300K for 30 million.
Or, I could beg for ISK at every opportunity until I got enough seed money to get my battleship crafting rolling....
Have I made my point yet? All of these options are in EVE, and its totally up to me what avenue I wish to pursue to achieve my goals of making Battleships. I also pretty much determine how successful I wish to be.
But in AOC, there's really only one avenue towards crafting..and if you don't do it, you can't craft.
By the way, most games have a problem a few years after launch, the lower level/older zones become ghost towns, because players are steered to upper level/newer content.
Contrast that to EVE, where the noob starting systems are busier today than they were 4 years ago, because there are no limits. You could roll a brand new character today, take the starter ship they give you, and fly into the deepest reaches of 0.0 space. If you were lucky and smart you'd actually make it, and could even make friends if your diplomacy skills (in real life) were up to it.
Few other games offer freedom of movement like this. A true sandbox game does.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
To me a sandbox MMO is one that gives me unlimited playstye possibilities
From being a shop keeper to a thief assassin and everything in between.
It has a world that feel alive and changes through my actions.
the Items,armor,weapons and other usable goodies are 99% crafted by the community.
While the developers implement things like Lore,quests,raids/dungeons and other playable features
they are all optional and arent required to progress through the game for my particular playstyle.
From my time playing MMO's a sandbox/skill based game gives me the freedom to do what i want.
I actually feel like im living out an existence in a alternate reality something i dont get playing games like EQ,Lotro or even WoW, these games have me following paths that they predetermined and thats not for me.
I agree with Forcan too mostly. Sandbox is non linear, but probably more too, but I enjoy just having a non linear game with a decent amount of choices. Like mentioned earlier, Grand Theft Auto is not a sandbox, but more of a non linear game. it still follows a story, that you can proceed through various ways, or not at all if you don't want to, but it gives a lot of freedom in the game (or appearance of it).
Thats what I look for in a MMO. That ability to do various things and not led down 1 path. Most MMOs I've played have this. As long as the game is enjoyable, I don't need a ton of choices. One thing that I prefer to have is a dynamic world. Heavy instancing hampers that for me. Zoning is perfectly fine for me, but instancing just ruins the immersive feeling if I want to play with some friends and I end up in Forest 1, friend is in Forest 2, and the healer is in Forest 3.
Kyleran had a good description of that feeling I like in EVE. The thing is, I just never enjoyed the gameplay much (or didn't give it enough of a chance). In DAoC, still one of my favorites, I could spec my character various ways, although "cookie cutter" specs were formed, but I often differed from them until my spec because one of the cookie cutters, lol. Then I could RvR in various places, use my realm points to further specialize my realm abilities. I had some choices there and had great gameplay.
So, basically, I don't really use the term "sandbox" , but I want some choices and diversity in a dynamic world for my MMO.
for those that have no clue what the term sandbox mmo means: go and play Ultima Online on a Freeshard (no money needed) with oldschool settings (like Divinity Server). Do that for 3 months and you should get an impression what a sandbox mmo is about.
As many in here said: In a sandbox mmo u as a player can play with the world and try to shape it. the opposite is a theme park mmo. You follow the red line and watch the scripted entertainment left and right but u cant really leave a mark or make make choices or a difference
Comments
I feel you are being intentionally obtuse. You understand quite well what the term sandbox game means but are trying to push a counterpoint for no reason.
OK, I'll play along. Age of Conan. I want to be a gem crafter. Oh wait...to be a gem crafter I must reach level 40. How do I get to level 40? By either running quests or grinding mobs until I gain enough experience to reach it.
Contrast that with EVE. I can start with a brand new character, virtually never leave the station, do absolutely nothing, and given enough time to train, have the skills to build Battleships. Oh, but to build battleships I need blue prints and materials.
Well, how do I get them? Do I have to run quests and grind npc's? Well, maybe. That's one way for sure. But perhaps I'll decide to play the market instead, and get rich buying low and selling high. Or maybe I'll become a miner and earn ISK/materials that way.
Maybe I'll be a pirate, and earn my money by stealing from others. Maybe I'll be a corporate spy, and get myself in good with some corporation and once they trust me, steal all their stuff from the corp hanger and get insta rich.
Or maybe I'll build my own empire, with a corporation and then an alliance at my command, and I'll tax all their efforts and make them pay me so I can use it to build my Battleships.
Or...(whew, too many choices) I could train up scouting/exploration skills and go look for hidden complexes and ships to steal or discover cool new gas fields which I can sell to some miner...so I can go back and build my battleships.
Or...I could decide to scam noobs, try to sell them a cheap, worthless ship for the price of a better one. Alls' fair in love and EVE, and many a person's gotten rich selling ships worth 300K for 30 million.
Or, I could beg for ISK at every opportunity until I got enough seed money to get my battleship crafting rolling....
Have I made my point yet? All of these options are in EVE, and its totally up to me what avenue I wish to pursue to achieve my goals of making Battleships. I also pretty much determine how successful I wish to be.
But in AOC, there's really only one avenue towards crafting..and if you don't do it, you can't craft.
By the way, most games have a problem a few years after launch, the lower level/older zones become ghost towns, because players are steered to upper level/newer content.
Contrast that to EVE, where the noob starting systems are busier today than they were 4 years ago, because there are no limits. You could roll a brand new character today, take the starter ship they give you, and fly into the deepest reaches of 0.0 space. If you were lucky and smart you'd actually make it, and could even make friends if your diplomacy skills (in real life) were up to it.
Few other games offer freedom of movement like this. A true sandbox game does.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
To me a sandbox MMO is one that gives me unlimited playstye possibilities
From being a shop keeper to a thief assassin and everything in between.
It has a world that feel alive and changes through my actions.
the Items,armor,weapons and other usable goodies are 99% crafted by the community.
While the developers implement things like Lore,quests,raids/dungeons and other playable features
they are all optional and arent required to progress through the game for my particular playstyle.
From my time playing MMO's a sandbox/skill based game gives me the freedom to do what i want.
I actually feel like im living out an existence in a alternate reality something i dont get playing games like EQ,Lotro or even WoW, these games have me following paths that they predetermined and thats not for me.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
I agree with Forcan too mostly. Sandbox is non linear, but probably more too, but I enjoy just having a non linear game with a decent amount of choices. Like mentioned earlier, Grand Theft Auto is not a sandbox, but more of a non linear game. it still follows a story, that you can proceed through various ways, or not at all if you don't want to, but it gives a lot of freedom in the game (or appearance of it).
Thats what I look for in a MMO. That ability to do various things and not led down 1 path. Most MMOs I've played have this. As long as the game is enjoyable, I don't need a ton of choices. One thing that I prefer to have is a dynamic world. Heavy instancing hampers that for me. Zoning is perfectly fine for me, but instancing just ruins the immersive feeling if I want to play with some friends and I end up in Forest 1, friend is in Forest 2, and the healer is in Forest 3.
Kyleran had a good description of that feeling I like in EVE. The thing is, I just never enjoyed the gameplay much (or didn't give it enough of a chance). In DAoC, still one of my favorites, I could spec my character various ways, although "cookie cutter" specs were formed, but I often differed from them until my spec because one of the cookie cutters, lol. Then I could RvR in various places, use my realm points to further specialize my realm abilities. I had some choices there and had great gameplay.
So, basically, I don't really use the term "sandbox" , but I want some choices and diversity in a dynamic world for my MMO.
for those that have no clue what the term sandbox mmo means: go and play Ultima Online on a Freeshard (no money needed) with oldschool settings (like Divinity Server). Do that for 3 months and you should get an impression what a sandbox mmo is about.
As many in here said: In a sandbox mmo u as a player can play with the world and try to shape it. the opposite is a theme park mmo. You follow the red line and watch the scripted entertainment left and right but u cant really leave a mark or make make choices or a difference