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Database/Itemization websites need to just die
Chiram
Member UncommonPosts: 643
Just a quick rant guys. Been playing MMORPG games for ages now. Started with UO. I loved both Ultima Online and EverQuest. About a year or maybe a little more into EverQuest, I started to notice my interest in MMORPGs decline. I couldn't quite figure it out, something was missing. I think I have narrowed it down to the key source.
INFORMATIONAL DATABASE WEBSITES, such as "wowhead" or "stratics". That tell you where, how often, what drops, etc etc. Now, I know what you are about to say, " Dude, just don't go to those sites!". It's different with an mmo than a single player spoiler guide. With an MMO, most of the people around you have already gone to those sites, will tell or even, link, the stats of items. " Yeah, this boss drops this, that, and this". I know this will happen regardless when a new MMO launches, because people remember what drops what. For example, everyone knew what the evil eyes in Lower Guk Dropped or the Froglok King. The fact of the matter is, UO and EverQuest didn't really have any ( maybe 1 very vague informational site) at the time. Exploration and the mystery of what is ahead were paramount.
I remember going into Guk and just being like... man... whats in here, omfg im lost. My first time in World of Warcraft, I already knew what the first horde dungeon was and what was in it.. JUST BY WORD OF MOUTH. I didn't even go to the informational sites. The suspense of NOT KNOWING what bosses do and what they drop will never be in another game and to those select few who actually get to test game content BEFORE the greedy pig-like informational sites get ahold of it, they are the only lucky ones who will ever get to experience it again.
I just wish there was an mmo coming out, that would enforce no itemization/spoiler websites into their EULA to bring back that feeling of not knowing. I'm tired of getting my hand held or having some squeeky-voiced teen tell me over ventrilo you can get 0.84% more crit chance and then links a GD item in guild chat. These sites enable min-maxing and completely ruin the meaning of a game in the first place.
I am going to place a poll in, but in all honesty if you have never played an MMO without a database site, please don't vote, you wouldn't understand.
Comments
nobody is forcing you to visit them!
If you wanna play wow for example and have a harder time doing random dungeons to find random gers is up to you.
that wasnt the main point of his post, it was that it seems to even invade talking in the game, with people chatting about dungeons, saying what and who is in them and the like. And some people, rather than helping when asked, will just tell you "STFU and L2Wowhead/Thottbott"
Agreed. You don't have to visit the sites, but in all honesty it doesn't really. Even if one player looks it up and he tells you about it that would be still word of mouth.
Please read the post before commenting.
By your logic IRL maps , for example , needs to die just becouse they "spoil" your "adventures" ?
Comparing a game to RL = logic? since when?
Games are meant for entertainment, these websites remove the key form of entertainment. Mystery, suspense, the unknown. What if you went into a movie and the dude next to you keeps saying what happens next, every 30 seconds. This is virtually the same thing.
Hm, mmo' do kind of loose their mysteriousness when its all put on websites, and yes, you dont have to to go the site if you don't want to, but everyone else has, so its not really like your character will come across a secret area/cave or find a extremely rare drop and have something to kind of show off.
Tis unfortunate.
There's no question that MMOs have lost most of the raw fun and mystery. And of course, most of this is due to WoW's streamlining.
If you're running a quest in WoW, and the thing you're looking for doesn't have a question mark, isn't glowing blue, or doesn't have blatant sparkles around it, people will never figure out where the stupid thing is.
I know MMOs are designed to be roller coasters, but sometimes I feel like Im on a kiddie ride, ignoring the quest text completely, and just collecting the 10 sparkles so I can get 3525 experience.
The mystery is gone. Nothing is passed by word of mouth, because MMOs now encourage people to look up stats, leveling guides, profession guides, and raid strategies. It's like playing a MMO with Microsoft Excel.
This applies to any game. You can find info about any game online. It's never going to go away, especially since MMO's are so time-investment heavy. People who play will always be interested in finding ways to get through quests/whatever more quickly.
No developer would enforce rules like you suggest. It wouldn't make monetary sense.
I read your post...I know that you said "Don't say 'just don't go to those sites'" but seriously...just don't go to those sites. If it's an issue of not wanting to see loot linked in general chat channels or guild chat...find an RP guild that won't do stuff like that, there are ways around it...Those sites are definitly not unavoidable.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
I agree 100% with the OP.
No one really explores in MMOs anymore because there is just no point looking around to find something unexpected. Also, unfortunately some games cannot really even be played without the guides for certain quests, because you have to know which creature drops the item and it might not even be hinted at in the quest text.
To me it's all part of this crazy rush to max level, and it can often take the fun out of grouping because it's all just a mad dash to complete the instance for the nth time to get a given drop.
Since it's not possible to stop the tide I've found two good ways that work for me to avoid the irritation of such sites. Easier than changing the community, that's for sure.
The first is to play a game with a relatively small number of players, so not every single thing of interest is known by everyone, and there is less information out on the internet sites.
The second solution is to solo the game. I realise some people think it's pretty dumb to solo a mmo, but it can actually enhance my own imersion when I don't find everyone I meet is already an expert at the mysterious world I am in.
Still, I do really wish all these sites would bugger off and die. I find it amusing how so many people want to be 'hardcore' players and yet prefer to have their hand held through every step of the way.
I would blame the game rather than the website....why is this imformation so important ?
Why should anything be a secret?
Honestly I wouldnt play a game like wow without thottbot.
Own, Mine, Defend, Attack, 24/7
As a person who like to farm effeciently, leave my thottbot alone.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
I read your post and not only are you upset about these sites are upset when anyone talks about the game.
You said you knew about the first dungeon because of word of mouth. What, you don't like it when people talk about the game they are playing too?
I suggest you play single player RPGs, never look at any guides and be lost in your own little world of "mystery" to your hearts content because the social aspect of MMOs is cleary what is ruining them for you.
The act of playing mmos has been compared in entertainment level to popping bubble wrap, low intensity fun, so some people don't want to have to think too much or explore too hard w/o results, so they go to these sites. Also some actually benefit the developer by illustrating the location of items and npcs you may otherwise have not found, maximizing the use of game's content. For me EQAtlas was huge, let me know where I could go to find the mobs I wanted to get were as well as the safest path to get to them which saved me a lot of corpse runs and lost xp. Probably would have stopped playing before I did w/o it.
"The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion." -Edmund Burke
Who will rise up for me against the evildoers? or who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity?"
(Psalm 94:16)
Very simple quit playing wow and dont go on those sites.
kthnx
I'm not a no life that sits in front of his computer all day long, I'm an intern that sits in front of his computer all day long.
Wishing them away aint gonna make them go away, any more than wishing away gold sellers. The sites fulfill a need or desire by many players, and are thus successful. Blame the players, not the sites. its their desire that provides a rationale for creating the sites. The same thing holds true for gold sellers, drug dealers, etc. Its the addicts that keep the dealers in business. Its called supply and demand.
Grinding in WoW without thottbot?? That is like going grocery shopping with a blind fold.
Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.
Guys the OP isn't saying he's sick of these sites because he visits them and finds out everything, so you can't say "just don't go". He's saying he's sick of other people going to them and then telling him about things that he'd rather leave a surprise - i.e. how to face this boss and what can he do, etc.
To the OP, well, people are always going to find the easy way out. Not everyone of course, but enough to justify the creation and maintaining of these sites. Let's face it, some people get really pissed at quests they can't figure out, so what do they do? www.wowhead.com. It's fast, easy, and gets them what they want. There's nothing we can really do about it, and what do you mean by saying in the EULA that no one can make these kinds of sites? People don't have to buy the game, thus they don't have to follow the EULA (right...?
) to make the sites. All they need is webmaking skills and friends who do play to tell them the information.
--------------------------------------
A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
Some games need these sites because the quests and objectives are too cryptic or simply not provided.
You mentioned EQ. You know how much allakhazam is used then?
Imagine everyone having to figure out every quest and epic and zone NPC location etc in EQ. EQ would have been dead after 2 or 3 years if it wasn't for sites providing that info so people could figure it out.
EQ still doesn't provide maps, you suggest everyone makes their own?
Honestly, these sites are no different from a sports instructor or a guide.
And please don't tell me people didn't use guides in EQ or that it was any different from WoW and that people explored more.
EQ pioneered it, half the time in EQ was spent looking things up online.
No, these sites don't hurt the game, they help it. People that would otherwise get frustrated trying to figure this out on their own, or making gimped characters, can use these sites and enjoy the game better.
Plus, if I don't play the game, you can't enforce any EULA on me, and I can post any info I want as long as it's not copyright infringement, and posting item stats is not copyright infringement.
I understand the OP's point and were he's coming from, but don't agree at all. you just can't compare games like WoW to UO. I played UO without any outside info and was able to play the game as intended, with WoW that would be impossible. I play that game extremely casually, and because of this I am forced to rely on the hardcore players to find out were to go and how to do things quickly, otherwise I would permanently be off on my own, unable to experience the majority of the content. The fault here is that a game played mostly by casual players has been designed for people than can play 30 hours a week.
asking to get rid of these websites also ignores the change in population levels between UO and todays popular games. You assume that because someone links loot from a boss or explains the trick to some quest its because they looked it up.. they may have, or it could just be that literally millions of people have already done the content in question and have it virtually memorized. Also you have the change to global chat channels to figure in- its not like UO, were you talked to the people on your screen and thats it- in WoW, you get the privilage of hearing every random thought that goes through the head of any player in your zone.
the experience the OP wants back from MMO's would take a lot more than just getting rid of thotbott, it would mean a total redesign of MMO's back to something simpler... It was a fun way to experience games while it lasted but I don't see it happening again unless you turn off all your chat channels, get out of vent, and totally remove yourself from everyone else playing.. which is a pretty pointless way to play an MMO.
Well, if you design the game for people that play 30 hours a week, those people will enjoy it, AND you can enjoy it to by reading the info on the websites these hardcore players make, so everybody wins.
If you made the game just for casual players, the hardcore players wouldn't have anything to do.
Look, if you think you can control information, you are a total fool. Even if you could stop such websites, there will be people sharing information in game. It happened back in the days of text based games and it will continue to do so. All you are fostering is a different type of who controls the information (i.e., hard core players).