Ok, let's objectively compare WoW and AoC as far as launch went.
Yes, AoC has more end-game content than WoW did at launch. Yes, AoC has had less server down-time. (Ellingson has claimed no unscheduled server down-time, but that's a crock.)
That's the good news. The bad news is that in AoC, most of the end-game content had never even been beta tested. Crafting? Not in beta. Massive PvP? Not in beta. Raids? Most of them not in beta. The results are obvious, because almost all of this stuff is badly bugged or completely broken even now, two months after launch.
To make matters worse, AoC gets you to end game faster than any other game I've ever played. This was a design decision on Funcom's part. They have specifically stated that they want people to blast through the levels so that they could get to "all the amazing" end-game content (that was never tested).
In WoW, I was part of the largest guild on our server. It took over three months for our first member to reach level 60. By that point, WoW was already starting to patch in things like Molten Core and Onyxia. Yes, there were bugs with both of those, and Onyxia especially took a long time to get working right. That did hurt a few guilds that power leveled through the game, but it wasn't until about six months after launch before our guild had enough level 60 members to start raiding. By that point, even more end-game content was being patched in, and the earliest stuff was well polished. Most guilds never even saw the raid content until it had been out for a while.
In AoC, I was part of what for a while was the largest guild on our server. It still might be, for all I know. (I haven't logged in for a month.) We got our first max-level character in 3 weeks. By the end of a month, we had almost a dozen. But where AoC differs from WoW is that those players have arrived and grown bored because there's no working content for them.
People can say all they want that AoC has more end-game content than WoW did at launch, but that's meaningless if said content isn't in a playable state. Funcom really dropped the ball here with what amounts to a terrible design decision. You can't speed players to max level and then leave them spinning their wheels with broken content. But Funcom has tried to do exactly that.
Oh, and as for all that server downtime that WoW experienced early on? They handed out a good two weeks of free game play by the time all was said and done. They were honest and fair about the matter. Funcom still claims that they haven't had any downtime to speak of, and that none of it was unscheduled. Who's kidding whom?
Just to add to that, what alot of people refuse to acknowlage is the diffrence in Servers from 5 years ago to the servers avalible today.
WOW did pretty dam well with the hardware technology available at the time, also the fact they did not have the hind sight to know just how many gamers were going to come flocking to there mmo.
so comparing an online release with 5 year old technology to a realease in todays market is pretty much chalk and cheese.
The AOC Hate frenzy is getting pretty pathetic IMO. The lack of end game content criticism thats thrown at a2 month old game, I mean WTF? WoW at this stage had UBRS and that was it. LoTRO had nothing then they introduced Thorog or whatever it was killed which we killed in a PUG in less than an hour. This is all just classic I want it all and I want it now brat generation wrecking something thats barely started. Its a real shame. I see lots of potential in AoC and whilst its not perfect I am still enjoying playing it.
Another person comparing Blizz's first mmo to Funcoms second.
Name one thing in AoC that is solid and polished.
Just one.
People used to say Dark and Light had "potential".
LOTRO is a second MMO from its producers... i guess you ignored that huh.
And only saw Wow in his post. Having said that WoW launched worse than Aoc, even with all there financial clot and they may have not released a MMO before but they have a lot of exp in MO games.
AoC had a good release, if you have a good machine then you get good graphics, the Combat system is new and different, As i said in a previous post there is basic content lacking, by that i mean quests and things to do before you get to lvl cap.
But if you fell for the hype then you should have a bit more aware of how games release in this genre.
Thats why I didn't say anything about LotR skippy.
The core of this game is complete garbage. PvP, PvE, Economy, Crafting, Itemization, skills etc..
The only thing AoC fans can say to defend this game is. "The graphics are good, and the combat is different." You guys sound like broken records. Oh, and I forgot, "All games are like this at launch".
P.S. WoW's launch was worse than AoC's? Seriously, lol.....
Yes seriously................... if you dont know then what can i say.
LOL... @ how you put you arguments across.......
Another person comparing Blizz's first mmo to Funcoms second.
Yet he also compares it to Turbine's 4th !!! Do you actually read people's post or just wait to reply?
You cannot choose bits of people sentences and ignore other parts skip-less!
What game do you actually play to say that all the core of AoC is garbage? Then we know what you are comparing it against.
I used his WoW statement because I knew Turbine has put out other mmo's, is that hard to comprehend?
You ask me to name other mmo's I've played to prove I know why AoC is garbage, yet you don't list any reasons why you think I'm wrong.
Game, set, match
Yes it is hard for me to comprehend.
The man was comparing AoC's launch to WoW and LOTROL launches, and you conveniently forget about the one that has released 4 previous games and bring him up on Blizzards one release.
This is what you said, in case you have forgotten "Another person comparing Blizz's first mmo to Funcoms second"
Where as you should have said "Another person comparing Blizz's first mmo and turbines 4th to Funcoms second." Which does not make sense.
I am not asking you to prove anything and i dont think you are wrong, Aoc may well be garbage to you, but if i dont know what your meat is i cant understand what you gargabe is, Kapish?
And what does "Game Set and Match" mean, is this an indication that you are successfull arguing your point? Cos if so then i will have to withdraw as it is clear that you are a juvenile and unforc there is no substance to your arguements.
If you like that crappy linear quest driven style, AoC is about the best you can get today, but.. I would hope that at least a lot of player would start being tired of killing 10 rabbits each day.
If you like that crappy linear quest driven style, AoC is about the best you can get today, but.. I would hope that at least a lot of player would start being tired of killing 10 rabbits each day.
Well in that case we will be tired of WoW, EQ2, VG, D&D, LOTROL etc etc etc.
The only i know that is different is EvE.
But hey i guess that is AoC's fault as well, with some of the arguments i have seen in this thread i would not be suprised if some claimed it was!
The AOC Hate frenzy is getting pretty pathetic IMO. The lack of end game content criticism thats thrown at a2 month old game, I mean WTF? WoW at this stage had UBRS and that was it. LoTRO had nothing then they introduced Thorog or whatever it was killed which we killed in a PUG in less than an hour. This is all just classic I want it all and I want it now brat generation wrecking something thats barely started. Its a real shame. I see lots of potential in AoC and whilst its not perfect I am still enjoying playing it.
Another person comparing Blizz's first mmo to Funcoms second.
Name one thing in AoC that is solid and polished.
Just one.
People used to say Dark and Light had "potential".
LOTRO is a second MMO from its producers... i guess you ignored that huh.
And only saw Wow in his post. Having said that WoW launched worse than Aoc, even with all there financial clot and they may have not released a MMO before but they have a lot of exp in MO games.
AoC had a good release, if you have a good machine then you get good graphics, the Combat system is new and different, As i said in a previous post there is basic content lacking, by that i mean quests and things to do before you get to lvl cap.
But if you fell for the hype then you should have a bit more aware of how games release in this genre.
Thats why I didn't say anything about LotR skippy.
The core of this game is complete garbage. PvP, PvE, Economy, Crafting, Itemization, skills etc..
The only thing AoC fans can say to defend this game is. "The graphics are good, and the combat is different." You guys sound like broken records. Oh, and I forgot, "All games are like this at launch".
P.S. WoW's launch was worse than AoC's? Seriously, lol.....
Yes seriously................... if you dont know then what can i say.
LOL... @ how you put you arguments across.......
Another person comparing Blizz's first mmo to Funcoms second.
Yet he also compares it to Turbine's 4th !!! Do you actually read people's post or just wait to reply?
You cannot choose bits of people sentences and ignore other parts skip-less!
What game do you actually play to say that all the core of AoC is garbage? Then we know what you are comparing it against.
I used his WoW statement because I knew Turbine has put out other mmo's, is that hard to comprehend?
You ask me to name other mmo's I've played to prove I know why AoC is garbage, yet you don't list any reasons why you think I'm wrong.
Game, set, match
I am not asking you to prove anything and i dont think you are wrong,
there is no substance to your arguements.
Umm.
Keep harping on the LotR thing. It doesn't matter anyways, because both games were better at release then AoC.
I've never looked into AoC to be honest, i knew WAR was coming and set my heart on it. Months ago it was known that both AoC and WAR will be released close together and the community here at mmorpg.com were 50/50 on which to go and play as their main mmo. Now, all i see is threads and posts about this game saying how bad it is, how it has failed and that even some people want their money back??? Is it really that bad? or did most people just expect to much from the game? A friend of mine plays the game and he says its not bad, but will continue with Lineage II. I'd just like some more reasons why not to try this game out encase WAR doesn't deliver.
The game turned out to be nothing more than the standard mind numbing level based grind fest, and their PvP system is a joke! Its to bad that WAR will be in the same boat, over all most MMO's now a days lack creativity and innovation as they all have gravitated to the standard cookie-cut MMO wanna be they continue to produce. .. Garbage!
I've never looked into AoC to be honest, i knew WAR was coming and set my heart on it. Months ago it was known that both AoC and WAR will be released close together and the community here at mmorpg.com were 50/50 on which to go and play as their main mmo. Now, all i see is threads and posts about this game saying how bad it is, how it has failed and that even some people want their money back??? Is it really that bad? or did most people just expect to much from the game? A friend of mine plays the game and he says its not bad, but will continue with Lineage II. I'd just like some more reasons why not to try this game out encase WAR doesn't deliver.
The game turned out to be nothing more than the standard mind numbing level based grind fest, and their PvP system is a joke! Its to bad that WAR will be in the same boat, over all most MMO's now a days lack creativity and innovation as they all have gravitated to the standard cookie-cut MMO wanna be they continue to produce. .. Garbage!
You played WAR from start to end-game? Wow, you're incredible. Pinch yourself to make sure you're real.
I make spreadsheets at work - I don't want to make them for the games I play.
Comparing the WOW launch with the AOC launch is mis-leading and is effectively trying to create a straw man. Sure WOW had server issues at launch, but who cares?People who could not long to WoW servers for hours on end care ! Its not a competition to see who can be most stable at launch. No it is not, neither is it a competition to see who can launch with more content or polish.It is however a competition to make a really good game to see who can keep its customers the longest. The AOC servers were and are relatively stable sure, but who gives a shit when the game sucks and the fundamentals dont exist or dont work? When I hear Funcom PR or twittering AOC masochists talk about a successful launch, it makes me cringe. If we regard server stability as the only deciding factor in a 'successful launch', then I could buy a server today, bang down a bit of code, release my 'game', and as long as the server doesnt stop working, I could, by the definition Funcom are using, describe my little project as having a successful launch. Do you know what the word "launch" actually means? Unfortunately for Funcom lauches arent about simply 'keeping the servers up'. Launches are about making the game playable and improving on its playability and appeal quickly, in order to maintain customer loyalty, aswell as keeping the game up when its supposed to be up. If you cant manage the former, then what use is the latter?
IT is we the public that entertain the thought that AoC had a bad launch, from Funcom's point of view it was an awesome launch pulling in 2 or 3 times the number of people they thought they would, they knew what they were launching on the day, we didnt, lack of content does not make for a bad launch, neither does the buggyness of the software, as these are not launch issues.
You didnt address my point at all, and it still stands. What is the use of keeping the servers up and selling loads of boxes if most people drop the game because the game is appalling? For any examination of an MMO launch to be in the remotest bit interesting, one must necessarily take into account the subscription retention figures of the first 2-3 months.
Saying the game isnt at all relevant to how the launch went is like saying an aeroplane had a good take off after the wing fell off after being in the air after 10 seconds. Its missing the point.
Umm. Keep harping on the LotR thing. It doesn't matter anyways, because both games were better at release then AoC.
They may have been to you , But for me they were far worse .I just wonder what you're basing the "better "on . As far as polish goes LOTOR and WOW I guess could be seen as "better ". But other than that , I'm not sure what they do "better" , for one LOTOR has zero world PVP , Limited classes And no evil path .
Wow has more content ; now , But at release this wasn't the case . If anything they are pretty much even in this department . Wow also has an atmosphere I could never quite immerse myself into . Wow's version of FFA pvp really never caught my fun sensor either .
As far as AOC goes in some departments I see it as "better" . like PVP and the overall atmosphere of the game . To me the least important thing is polish , to me it is easy to forgive the decision to polish over time . If AOC had a pvp system in place , and working end game content , I'd still be playing .
In conclusion it's pointless to argue over whats better between WOW , LOTOR or any other game . If we all had the same idea of what's fun there would be one game , and we'd all be playing it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Umm. Keep harping on the LotR thing. It doesn't matter anyways, because both games were better at release then AoC.
They may have been to you , But for me they were far worse .I just wonder what your basing the "better "on . As far as polish goes LOTOR and WOW I guess could be seen as "better ". But other than that , I'm not sure what they do "better" , for one LOTOR has zero world PVP , Limited classes And no evil path .
Wow has more content ; now , But at release this wasn't the case . If anything they are pretty much even in this department . Wow also has an atmosphere I could never quite immerse myself into . Wow's version of FFA pvp really never caught my fun sensor either .
As far as AOC goes in some departments I see it as "better" . like PVP and the overall atmosphere of the game . To me the least important thing is polish , to me it is easy to forgive the decision to polish over time . If AOC had a pvp system in place , and working end game content , I'd still be playing .
In conclusion it's pointless to argue over whats better between WOW , LOTOR or any other game . If we all had the same idea of what's fun there would be one game , and we'd all be playing it.
I was talking about overall. Things like item stats are core elements. How do you balance anything when you don't even have stats worked out yet? How do you have meaningful pvp when they're trying to work out a system right now? The pvp system would also be affected by item stats, but neither were developed before launch. Thats what I mean by "core elements". They affect every aspect of the game basically.
I agree the discussion shouldn't revolve around other games, and thats why I responded to the guy. No matter how another mmo launched, it won't hide the fact AoC is lacking in several areas.
Umm. Keep harping on the LotR thing. It doesn't matter anyways, because both games were better at release then AoC.
...
To me the least important thing is polish , to me it is easy to forgive the decision to polish over time .
...
I agree with you on this personally. However as a software engineer I can tell you we are not only in the minority but polish is essential for covering your ass because of people who say what you said above but then when they find some reason to be unhappy will bust out with every unpolished thing you ever had in the game.
Kind of like when you get in a fight with a girlfriend and she brings up a laundry of stuff you never even realized pissed her off and have no bearing on what you are even currently talking about.
Anyway the point is polish is one of the most important things no matter how much a slob like me doesn't really care.
Comparing the WOW launch with the AOC launch is mis-leading and is effectively trying to create a straw man. Sure WOW had server issues at launch, but who cares?People who could not long to WoW servers for hours on end care ! Its not a competition to see who can be most stable at launch. No it is not, neither is it a competition to see who can launch with more content or polish.It is however a competition to make a really good game to see who can keep its customers the longest. The AOC servers were and are relatively stable sure, but who gives a shit when the game sucks and the fundamentals dont exist or dont work? When I hear Funcom PR or twittering AOC masochists talk about a successful launch, it makes me cringe. If we regard server stability as the only deciding factor in a 'successful launch', then I could buy a server today, bang down a bit of code, release my 'game', and as long as the server doesnt stop working, I could, by the definition Funcom are using, describe my little project as having a successful launch. Do you know what the word "launch" actually means? Unfortunately for Funcom lauches arent about simply 'keeping the servers up'. Launches are about making the game playable and improving on its playability and appeal quickly, in order to maintain customer loyalty, aswell as keeping the game up when its supposed to be up. If you cant manage the former, then what use is the latter?
IT is we the public that entertain the thought that AoC had a bad launch, from Funcom's point of view it was an awesome launch pulling in 2 or 3 times the number of people they thought they would, they knew what they were launching on the day, we didnt, lack of content does not make for a bad launch, neither does the buggyness of the software, as these are not launch issues.
You didnt address my point at all, and it still stands. What is the use of keeping the servers up and selling loads of boxes if most people drop the game because the game is appalling? For any examination of an MMO launch to be in the remotest bit interesting, one must necessarily take into account the subscription retention figures of the first 2-3 months.
Saying the game isnt at all relevant to how the launch went is like saying an aeroplane had a good take off after the wing fell off after being in the air after 10 seconds. Its missing the point.
Your point is based on the statement that "the game is appalling"
This is your opinion of the game and as such there is nothing to say to that, yes your point stands to you, not to me as i dont find the game appalling.
Also i would like to say that far more people bought the game then was expected, so the retention figures must be compared against the realistic number of people that FUNCOM beleived would play the game and not against the 1000s of people who bought the game hoping it was something it was not and would have stopped playing even if the game was a polished as my shoes are!
The game launched with fewer features than promised but most mmo's do.This game is no better or worse than anything on the market at this moment.
The funny thing about it is when WAR launches im going to bet ya that the same amount of complaining starts over on that forum.
Well, I'm no grizzled MMO vet by any stretch of the imagination, but what other MMO launched that lacked so many of the promised features? Features loudly declared upon the packaging, no less.
I played Earth and Beyond at launch, it had what it promised (as far as I know). Same with DAoC. WoW too - though the level of organized PvP they promised is debatable, they didn't promise any specifics that were left out, that I am aware of, and not to any level that caused people (or themselves) to twist semantics to justify.
Not being aggressive at all, just wondering bro.
Hmm ok let me rephrase this then.
The game isnt that bad and sure some features were left out.I played AoC on the culture pvp server but regrettably i had to leave due to lack of time and money otherwise i would have played.
SWG at launch was buggy as hell comparativley speaking as was AO.The difference is that people still continued to play and didnt whine and complain as much as this generation of players is doing now.Honestly the game is 2 months old and players are not even willing to give it a fair chance.
Before i get flamed let me point out that FC worked on the game for 5 years.At some point a mmo HAS to start making money.There has to be a return on investment.Remember how many times they announced a launch date and then decided to put it off a while longer.
Now look at WAR.Still under NDA and its how long till its supposed launch?AoC was under NDA as well until the last second.
Oh but its ok because they came out and said what features were going to be left out right?Honestly looks as if they pulled the proverbial wool over everyones eyes.It seems to me over HALF the features promised in WAR are going to be missing.
Remember that Mythic, EA and Games Workshop are ALL looking to make a return on their investment.
Pretty much the same with AoC and FC.If the game goes beyond a certain # of years in development people lose interest.
I personally think the launch was pretty smooth in terms of stabilty, the nice leveling in Tortage.
But then you really find out what the game is about. Or infact what it isnt about and lacks.
Im interested in the views of people who enjoy this game ... what do they actually enjoy about it. Surely it can not be the aweful crafting. The half broken crafting with everyone taking the same skills. Maybe they should of took swg crafting as a benchmark.
Is it the pvp?. Surely it can not be that. ALthough fun killing in Kesh for a few days soon becomes tiresome. The sieges are really good arn't they (/sarcasm). They are going to take months to fix if ever.
Must be the pve then that people enjoy. No no can not be that. The dungeons are the most bland ive seen in any game. The copy paste trash enroute is mind blowingly boring....all to kill the tank and spank bugged boss at the end.
Please inform what is so good about AoC because I must of missed it.
Umm. Keep harping on the LotR thing. It doesn't matter anyways, because both games were better at release then AoC.
...
To me the least important thing is polish , to me it is easy to forgive the decision to polish over time .
...
I agree with you on this personally. However as a software engineer I can tell you we are not only in the minority but polish is essential for covering your ass because of people who say what you said above but then when they find some reason to be unhappy will bust out with every unpolished thing you ever had in the game.
Kind of like when you get in a fight with a girlfriend and she brings up a laundry of stuff you never even realized pissed her off and have no bearing on what you are even currently talking about.
Anyway the point is polish is one of the most important things no matter how much a slob like me doesn't really care.
I can only speak for myself here , SO I'm sure I'm in the minority , I have no problem with that actually. I will just say I'm glad to be a apart of the minority on this issue , I've played some really great games that were innovative and some even revolutionary (SWG at it's time). That were received by the masses as bugged and incomplete.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I can only speak for myself here , SO I'm sure I'm in the minority , I have no problem with that actually. I will just say I'm glad to be a apart of the minority on this issue , I've played some really great games that were innovative and some even revolutionary (SWG at it's time). That were received by the masses as bugged and incomplete.
I would accept AOC as bugged and incomplete if game were good. I mean its not bad...but im lvl 80 for month now and there is nothing to do...
PvE is okish, but if i want PvE ill get full PVE game
PVP is meaningless, no point in PvPing
Minigames are too short and lame, they remind me too much to WoW minigames. When i think of it they are same
Building T3 city and battlekeep is for Epeen purposes only, bonus you get from them is allmost nothing.
So what can you do in that game when you hit 80?
Develop proffesion?
I have alchemy and armorsmith max lvl. Alchemy is so lame that i can make 6 conumables no potions.
They wont release PvP patch untill they fix gems, and gems caused new unbalance making classes like guardians invincible. 1 he have ton of armor and i do 100 white damage, second he have all +DPS gems and with that he does 1000 white damage to me...if they release PvP patch with this imbalance ill have to reroll
Edit:
Battlekeep fights are soo lame atm that AV fight from WoW owns it. Not only that its full of bugs but its allmost unplayable in some situations (5 people in screen doing magic)
--------------------> Would you like some cheese with that whine?
I can only speak for myself here , SO I'm sure I'm in the minority , I have no problem with that actually. I will just say I'm glad to be a apart of the minority on this issue , I've played some really great games that were innovative and some even revolutionary (SWG at it's time). That were received by the masses as bugged and incomplete.
I would accept AOC as bugged and incomplete if game were good. I mean its not bad...but im lvl 80 for month now and there is nothing to do...
PvE is okish, but if i want PvE ill get full PVE game
PVP is meaningless, no point in PvPing
Minigames are too short and lame, they remind me too much to WoW minigames. When i think of it they are same
Building T3 city and battlekeep is for Epeen purposes only, bonus you get from them is allmost nothing.
So what can you do in that game when you hit 80?
Develop proffesion?
I have alchemy and armorsmith max lvl. Alchemy is so lame that i can make 6 conumables no potions.
They wont release PvP patch untill they fix gems, and gems caused new unbalance making classes like guardians invincible. 1 he have ton of armor and i do 100 white damage, second he have all +DPS gems and with that he does 1000 white damage to me...if they release PvP patch with this imbalance ill have to reroll
Edit:
Battlekeep fights are soo lame atm that AV fight from WoW owns it. Not only that its full of bugs but its allmost unplayable in some situations (5 people in screen doing magic)
i agree 100%. even when they finally release the pvp patch its still not gonna matter since pvp is so unbalanced. most people have no clue just how bad it is since they're waiting on the pvp content patch before they began to pvp since theres no reason to atm.
i play in guild thats raiding tier 2 content on the wiccana server and the raid instances are the worst i've ever see in any mmo. not just the bugs but the overall design. we're one of the top guilds on the server and yet within the last 2-3 weeks i'd bet 50% of our guild has quit.
i originally planned to play aoc for pve and war for pvp but thats no longer the case. i was atleast hopeful that it would hold me over until war open beta came out but looks like it won't even do that as i no longer plan to continue to subscribe to aoc after this month.
So is it worth getting the game. It's been two months and I don't know if I should start it or play WoW or WAR when it comes out. I'm a casual gamer who will play a couple of hours a night.
P.S. i am also building a rig because mine is over 5 years old. I am going with the specs listed on this link:
So is it worth getting the game. It's been two months and I don't know if I should start it or play WoW or WAR when it comes out. I'm a casual gamer who will play a couple of hours a night. P.S. i am also building a rig because mine is over 5 years old. I am going with the specs listed on this link:
So is it worth getting the game. It's been two months and I don't know if I should start it or play WoW or WAR when it comes out. I'm a casual gamer who will play a couple of hours a night. P.S. i am also building a rig because mine is over 5 years old. I am going with the specs listed on this link:
Is 1-2 months of fun worth $50 - $65 for you? As an extremely casual player, that's about how long it will take you to get to around level 40, which is where the game goes downhill fast. So you should get a good bit of fun during that time.
On the other hand, you already mentioned WoW which is simplistic, but also a lot of fun for months of play. With your availabilty you'd be looking at a good year or two before you ran out of content. Vanguard is another good option, with much more depth than either AoC or WoW.
If you like that crappy linear quest driven style, AoC is about the best you can get today, but.. I would hope that at least a lot of player would start being tired of killing 10 rabbits each day.
Well in that case we will be tired of WoW, EQ2, VG, D&D, LOTROL etc etc etc.
The only i know that is different is EvE.
But hey i guess that is AoC's fault as well, with some of the arguments i have seen in this thread i would not be suprised if some claimed it was!
If we have to blame anyone, it would have to be Everquest, for obvious reasons.
IMHO no it is not that bad. The game launched with fewer features than promised but most mmo's do.This game is no better or worse than anything on the market at this moment. The funny thing about it is when WAR launches im going to bet ya that the same amount of complaining starts over on that forum.
Totally agree on this one. War will have the same amount of let down people. I just saw a comparison of AoC and War graphics, omg AoC rocks in that department. Im still looking forward to try the gameplay of war though.
IMHO no it is not that bad. The game launched with fewer features than promised but most mmo's do.This game is no better or worse than anything on the market at this moment. The funny thing about it is when WAR launches im going to bet ya that the same amount of complaining starts over on that forum.
Totally agree on this one. War will have the same amount of let down people. I just saw a comparison of AoC and War graphics, omg AoC rocks in that department. Im still looking forward to try the gameplay of war though.
Have fun with your AoC epic sieges with those kind of graphics .
-------------------------------------- A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Comments
Ok, let's objectively compare WoW and AoC as far as launch went.
Yes, AoC has more end-game content than WoW did at launch. Yes, AoC has had less server down-time. (Ellingson has claimed no unscheduled server down-time, but that's a crock.)
That's the good news. The bad news is that in AoC, most of the end-game content had never even been beta tested. Crafting? Not in beta. Massive PvP? Not in beta. Raids? Most of them not in beta. The results are obvious, because almost all of this stuff is badly bugged or completely broken even now, two months after launch.
To make matters worse, AoC gets you to end game faster than any other game I've ever played. This was a design decision on Funcom's part. They have specifically stated that they want people to blast through the levels so that they could get to "all the amazing" end-game content (that was never tested).
In WoW, I was part of the largest guild on our server. It took over three months for our first member to reach level 60. By that point, WoW was already starting to patch in things like Molten Core and Onyxia. Yes, there were bugs with both of those, and Onyxia especially took a long time to get working right. That did hurt a few guilds that power leveled through the game, but it wasn't until about six months after launch before our guild had enough level 60 members to start raiding. By that point, even more end-game content was being patched in, and the earliest stuff was well polished. Most guilds never even saw the raid content until it had been out for a while.
In AoC, I was part of what for a while was the largest guild on our server. It still might be, for all I know. (I haven't logged in for a month.) We got our first max-level character in 3 weeks. By the end of a month, we had almost a dozen. But where AoC differs from WoW is that those players have arrived and grown bored because there's no working content for them.
People can say all they want that AoC has more end-game content than WoW did at launch, but that's meaningless if said content isn't in a playable state. Funcom really dropped the ball here with what amounts to a terrible design decision. You can't speed players to max level and then leave them spinning their wheels with broken content. But Funcom has tried to do exactly that.
Oh, and as for all that server downtime that WoW experienced early on? They handed out a good two weeks of free game play by the time all was said and done. They were honest and fair about the matter. Funcom still claims that they haven't had any downtime to speak of, and that none of it was unscheduled. Who's kidding whom?
Just to add to that, what alot of people refuse to acknowlage is the diffrence in Servers from 5 years ago to the servers avalible today.
WOW did pretty dam well with the hardware technology available at the time, also the fact they did not have the hind sight to know just how many gamers were going to come flocking to there mmo.
so comparing an online release with 5 year old technology to a realease in todays market is pretty much chalk and cheese.
Another person comparing Blizz's first mmo to Funcoms second.
Name one thing in AoC that is solid and polished.
Just one.
People used to say Dark and Light had "potential".
LOTRO is a second MMO from its producers... i guess you ignored that huh.
And only saw Wow in his post. Having said that WoW launched worse than Aoc, even with all there financial clot and they may have not released a MMO before but they have a lot of exp in MO games.
AoC had a good release, if you have a good machine then you get good graphics, the Combat system is new and different, As i said in a previous post there is basic content lacking, by that i mean quests and things to do before you get to lvl cap.
But if you fell for the hype then you should have a bit more aware of how games release in this genre.
Thats why I didn't say anything about LotR skippy.
The core of this game is complete garbage. PvP, PvE, Economy, Crafting, Itemization, skills etc..
The only thing AoC fans can say to defend this game is. "The graphics are good, and the combat is different." You guys sound like broken records. Oh, and I forgot, "All games are like this at launch".
P.S. WoW's launch was worse than AoC's? Seriously, lol.....
Yes seriously................... if you dont know then what can i say.
LOL... @ how you put you arguments across.......
Another person comparing Blizz's first mmo to Funcoms second.
Yet he also compares it to Turbine's 4th !!! Do you actually read people's post or just wait to reply?
You cannot choose bits of people sentences and ignore other parts skip-less!
What game do you actually play to say that all the core of AoC is garbage? Then we know what you are comparing it against.
I used his WoW statement because I knew Turbine has put out other mmo's, is that hard to comprehend?
You ask me to name other mmo's I've played to prove I know why AoC is garbage, yet you don't list any reasons why you think I'm wrong.
Game, set, match
Yes it is hard for me to comprehend.
The man was comparing AoC's launch to WoW and LOTROL launches, and you conveniently forget about the one that has released 4 previous games and bring him up on Blizzards one release.
This is what you said, in case you have forgotten "Another person comparing Blizz's first mmo to Funcoms second"
Where as you should have said "Another person comparing Blizz's first mmo and turbines 4th to Funcoms second." Which does not make sense.
I am not asking you to prove anything and i dont think you are wrong, Aoc may well be garbage to you, but if i dont know what your meat is i cant understand what you gargabe is, Kapish?
And what does "Game Set and Match" mean, is this an indication that you are successfull arguing your point? Cos if so then i will have to withdraw as it is clear that you are a juvenile and unforc there is no substance to your arguements.
If you like that crappy linear quest driven style, AoC is about the best you can get today, but.. I would hope that at least a lot of player would start being tired of killing 10 rabbits each day.
Well in that case we will be tired of WoW, EQ2, VG, D&D, LOTROL etc etc etc.
The only i know that is different is EvE.
But hey i guess that is AoC's fault as well, with some of the arguments i have seen in this thread i would not be suprised if some claimed it was!
Another person comparing Blizz's first mmo to Funcoms second.
Name one thing in AoC that is solid and polished.
Just one.
People used to say Dark and Light had "potential".
LOTRO is a second MMO from its producers... i guess you ignored that huh.
And only saw Wow in his post. Having said that WoW launched worse than Aoc, even with all there financial clot and they may have not released a MMO before but they have a lot of exp in MO games.
AoC had a good release, if you have a good machine then you get good graphics, the Combat system is new and different, As i said in a previous post there is basic content lacking, by that i mean quests and things to do before you get to lvl cap.
But if you fell for the hype then you should have a bit more aware of how games release in this genre.
Thats why I didn't say anything about LotR skippy.
The core of this game is complete garbage. PvP, PvE, Economy, Crafting, Itemization, skills etc..
The only thing AoC fans can say to defend this game is. "The graphics are good, and the combat is different." You guys sound like broken records. Oh, and I forgot, "All games are like this at launch".
P.S. WoW's launch was worse than AoC's? Seriously, lol.....
Yes seriously................... if you dont know then what can i say.
LOL... @ how you put you arguments across.......
Another person comparing Blizz's first mmo to Funcoms second.
Yet he also compares it to Turbine's 4th !!! Do you actually read people's post or just wait to reply?
You cannot choose bits of people sentences and ignore other parts skip-less!
What game do you actually play to say that all the core of AoC is garbage? Then we know what you are comparing it against.
I used his WoW statement because I knew Turbine has put out other mmo's, is that hard to comprehend?
You ask me to name other mmo's I've played to prove I know why AoC is garbage, yet you don't list any reasons why you think I'm wrong.
Game, set, match
I am not asking you to prove anything and i dont think you are wrong,
there is no substance to your arguements.
Umm.
Keep harping on the LotR thing. It doesn't matter anyways, because both games were better at release then AoC.
Gamer Plus+
The game turned out to be nothing more than the standard mind numbing level based grind fest, and their PvP system is a joke! Its to bad that WAR will be in the same boat, over all most MMO's now a days lack creativity and innovation as they all have gravitated to the standard cookie-cut MMO wanna be they continue to produce. .. Garbage!
The game turned out to be nothing more than the standard mind numbing level based grind fest, and their PvP system is a joke! Its to bad that WAR will be in the same boat, over all most MMO's now a days lack creativity and innovation as they all have gravitated to the standard cookie-cut MMO wanna be they continue to produce. .. Garbage!
You played WAR from start to end-game? Wow, you're incredible. Pinch yourself to make sure you're real.
I make spreadsheets at work - I don't want to make them for the games I play.
IT is we the public that entertain the thought that AoC had a bad launch, from Funcom's point of view it was an awesome launch pulling in 2 or 3 times the number of people they thought they would, they knew what they were launching on the day, we didnt, lack of content does not make for a bad launch, neither does the buggyness of the software, as these are not launch issues.
You didnt address my point at all, and it still stands. What is the use of keeping the servers up and selling loads of boxes if most people drop the game because the game is appalling? For any examination of an MMO launch to be in the remotest bit interesting, one must necessarily take into account the subscription retention figures of the first 2-3 months.
Saying the game isnt at all relevant to how the launch went is like saying an aeroplane had a good take off after the wing fell off after being in the air after 10 seconds. Its missing the point.
I really should get in on this debacle, but I just can't comment on the pages upon pages of crap posted so far.
Pages upon pages upon pages of just utter bullshit.
This thread would have been better if both sides would have stuck to 2 comments.
1.) AoC REALLY is that bad.
2.) AoC!? I loves me some AoC!
Then we could have cut the number of pages to read in half. Then I might would have been more willing to post something worthwhile.
Here is my comment though.
1.) AoC REALLY is that bad.
They may have been to you , But for me they were far worse .I just wonder what you're basing the "better "on . As far as polish goes LOTOR and WOW I guess could be seen as "better ". But other than that , I'm not sure what they do "better" , for one LOTOR has zero world PVP , Limited classes And no evil path .
Wow has more content ; now , But at release this wasn't the case . If anything they are pretty much even in this department . Wow also has an atmosphere I could never quite immerse myself into . Wow's version of FFA pvp really never caught my fun sensor either .
As far as AOC goes in some departments I see it as "better" . like PVP and the overall atmosphere of the game . To me the least important thing is polish , to me it is easy to forgive the decision to polish over time . If AOC had a pvp system in place , and working end game content , I'd still be playing .
In conclusion it's pointless to argue over whats better between WOW , LOTOR or any other game . If we all had the same idea of what's fun there would be one game , and we'd all be playing it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
They may have been to you , But for me they were far worse .I just wonder what your basing the "better "on . As far as polish goes LOTOR and WOW I guess could be seen as "better ". But other than that , I'm not sure what they do "better" , for one LOTOR has zero world PVP , Limited classes And no evil path .
Wow has more content ; now , But at release this wasn't the case . If anything they are pretty much even in this department . Wow also has an atmosphere I could never quite immerse myself into . Wow's version of FFA pvp really never caught my fun sensor either .
As far as AOC goes in some departments I see it as "better" . like PVP and the overall atmosphere of the game . To me the least important thing is polish , to me it is easy to forgive the decision to polish over time . If AOC had a pvp system in place , and working end game content , I'd still be playing .
In conclusion it's pointless to argue over whats better between WOW , LOTOR or any other game . If we all had the same idea of what's fun there would be one game , and we'd all be playing it.
I was talking about overall. Things like item stats are core elements. How do you balance anything when you don't even have stats worked out yet? How do you have meaningful pvp when they're trying to work out a system right now? The pvp system would also be affected by item stats, but neither were developed before launch. Thats what I mean by "core elements". They affect every aspect of the game basically.
I agree the discussion shouldn't revolve around other games, and thats why I responded to the guy. No matter how another mmo launched, it won't hide the fact AoC is lacking in several areas.
Gamer Plus+
...To me the least important thing is polish , to me it is easy to forgive the decision to polish over time .
...
I agree with you on this personally. However as a software engineer I can tell you we are not only in the minority but polish is essential for covering your ass because of people who say what you said above but then when they find some reason to be unhappy will bust out with every unpolished thing you ever had in the game.
Kind of like when you get in a fight with a girlfriend and she brings up a laundry of stuff you never even realized pissed her off and have no bearing on what you are even currently talking about.
Anyway the point is polish is one of the most important things no matter how much a slob like me doesn't really care.
IT is we the public that entertain the thought that AoC had a bad launch, from Funcom's point of view it was an awesome launch pulling in 2 or 3 times the number of people they thought they would, they knew what they were launching on the day, we didnt, lack of content does not make for a bad launch, neither does the buggyness of the software, as these are not launch issues.
You didnt address my point at all, and it still stands. What is the use of keeping the servers up and selling loads of boxes if most people drop the game because the game is appalling? For any examination of an MMO launch to be in the remotest bit interesting, one must necessarily take into account the subscription retention figures of the first 2-3 months.
Saying the game isnt at all relevant to how the launch went is like saying an aeroplane had a good take off after the wing fell off after being in the air after 10 seconds. Its missing the point.
Your point is based on the statement that "the game is appalling"
This is your opinion of the game and as such there is nothing to say to that, yes your point stands to you, not to me as i dont find the game appalling.
Also i would like to say that far more people bought the game then was expected, so the retention figures must be compared against the realistic number of people that FUNCOM beleived would play the game and not against the 1000s of people who bought the game hoping it was something it was not and would have stopped playing even if the game was a polished as my shoes are!
Well, I'm no grizzled MMO vet by any stretch of the imagination, but what other MMO launched that lacked so many of the promised features? Features loudly declared upon the packaging, no less.
I played Earth and Beyond at launch, it had what it promised (as far as I know). Same with DAoC. WoW too - though the level of organized PvP they promised is debatable, they didn't promise any specifics that were left out, that I am aware of, and not to any level that caused people (or themselves) to twist semantics to justify.
Not being aggressive at all, just wondering bro.
Hmm ok let me rephrase this then.
The game isnt that bad and sure some features were left out.I played AoC on the culture pvp server but regrettably i had to leave due to lack of time and money otherwise i would have played.
SWG at launch was buggy as hell comparativley speaking as was AO.The difference is that people still continued to play and didnt whine and complain as much as this generation of players is doing now.Honestly the game is 2 months old and players are not even willing to give it a fair chance.
Before i get flamed let me point out that FC worked on the game for 5 years.At some point a mmo HAS to start making money.There has to be a return on investment.Remember how many times they announced a launch date and then decided to put it off a while longer.
Now look at WAR.Still under NDA and its how long till its supposed launch?AoC was under NDA as well until the last second.
Oh but its ok because they came out and said what features were going to be left out right?Honestly looks as if they pulled the proverbial wool over everyones eyes.It seems to me over HALF the features promised in WAR are going to be missing.
Remember that Mythic, EA and Games Workshop are ALL looking to make a return on their investment.
Pretty much the same with AoC and FC.If the game goes beyond a certain # of years in development people lose interest.
What is your physical limit?
I personally think the launch was pretty smooth in terms of stabilty, the nice leveling in Tortage.
But then you really find out what the game is about. Or infact what it isnt about and lacks.
Im interested in the views of people who enjoy this game ... what do they actually enjoy about it. Surely it can not be the aweful crafting. The half broken crafting with everyone taking the same skills. Maybe they should of took swg crafting as a benchmark.
Is it the pvp?. Surely it can not be that. ALthough fun killing in Kesh for a few days soon becomes tiresome. The sieges are really good arn't they (/sarcasm). They are going to take months to fix if ever.
Must be the pve then that people enjoy. No no can not be that. The dungeons are the most bland ive seen in any game. The copy paste trash enroute is mind blowingly boring....all to kill the tank and spank bugged boss at the end.
Please inform what is so good about AoC because I must of missed it.
...To me the least important thing is polish , to me it is easy to forgive the decision to polish over time .
...
I agree with you on this personally. However as a software engineer I can tell you we are not only in the minority but polish is essential for covering your ass because of people who say what you said above but then when they find some reason to be unhappy will bust out with every unpolished thing you ever had in the game.
Kind of like when you get in a fight with a girlfriend and she brings up a laundry of stuff you never even realized pissed her off and have no bearing on what you are even currently talking about.
Anyway the point is polish is one of the most important things no matter how much a slob like me doesn't really care.
I can only speak for myself here , SO I'm sure I'm in the minority , I have no problem with that actually. I will just say I'm glad to be a apart of the minority on this issue , I've played some really great games that were innovative and some even revolutionary (SWG at it's time). That were received by the masses as bugged and incomplete.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I would accept AOC as bugged and incomplete if game were good. I mean its not bad...but im lvl 80 for month now and there is nothing to do...
PvE is okish, but if i want PvE ill get full PVE game
PVP is meaningless, no point in PvPing
Minigames are too short and lame, they remind me too much to WoW minigames. When i think of it they are same
Building T3 city and battlekeep is for Epeen purposes only, bonus you get from them is allmost nothing.
So what can you do in that game when you hit 80?
Develop proffesion?
I have alchemy and armorsmith max lvl. Alchemy is so lame that i can make 6 conumables no potions.
They wont release PvP patch untill they fix gems, and gems caused new unbalance making classes like guardians invincible. 1 he have ton of armor and i do 100 white damage, second he have all +DPS gems and with that he does 1000 white damage to me...if they release PvP patch with this imbalance ill have to reroll
Edit:
Battlekeep fights are soo lame atm that AV fight from WoW owns it. Not only that its full of bugs but its allmost unplayable in some situations (5 people in screen doing magic)
-------------------->
Would you like some cheese with that whine?
I would accept AOC as bugged and incomplete if game were good. I mean its not bad...but im lvl 80 for month now and there is nothing to do...
PvE is okish, but if i want PvE ill get full PVE game
PVP is meaningless, no point in PvPing
Minigames are too short and lame, they remind me too much to WoW minigames. When i think of it they are same
Building T3 city and battlekeep is for Epeen purposes only, bonus you get from them is allmost nothing.
So what can you do in that game when you hit 80?
Develop proffesion?
I have alchemy and armorsmith max lvl. Alchemy is so lame that i can make 6 conumables no potions.
They wont release PvP patch untill they fix gems, and gems caused new unbalance making classes like guardians invincible. 1 he have ton of armor and i do 100 white damage, second he have all +DPS gems and with that he does 1000 white damage to me...if they release PvP patch with this imbalance ill have to reroll
Edit:
Battlekeep fights are soo lame atm that AV fight from WoW owns it. Not only that its full of bugs but its allmost unplayable in some situations (5 people in screen doing magic)
i agree 100%. even when they finally release the pvp patch its still not gonna matter since pvp is so unbalanced. most people have no clue just how bad it is since they're waiting on the pvp content patch before they began to pvp since theres no reason to atm.
i play in guild thats raiding tier 2 content on the wiccana server and the raid instances are the worst i've ever see in any mmo. not just the bugs but the overall design. we're one of the top guilds on the server and yet within the last 2-3 weeks i'd bet 50% of our guild has quit.
i originally planned to play aoc for pve and war for pvp but thats no longer the case. i was atleast hopeful that it would hold me over until war open beta came out but looks like it won't even do that as i no longer plan to continue to subscribe to aoc after this month.
So is it worth getting the game. It's been two months and I don't know if I should start it or play WoW or WAR when it comes out. I'm a casual gamer who will play a couple of hours a night.
P.S. i am also building a rig because mine is over 5 years old. I am going with the specs listed on this link:
http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/15009/4
Should I keep the HD4850 or go with the HD4870 and will the power supply and case keep it running smoothly and cooled?
I'd go with a bigger power supply, but the rest looks good.
I would suggest trying to get your hands on a buddy key. At this point, I would say it's not worth buying, but in the future, you never know.
Gamer Plus+
Is 1-2 months of fun worth $50 - $65 for you? As an extremely casual player, that's about how long it will take you to get to around level 40, which is where the game goes downhill fast. So you should get a good bit of fun during that time.
On the other hand, you already mentioned WoW which is simplistic, but also a lot of fun for months of play. With your availabilty you'd be looking at a good year or two before you ran out of content. Vanguard is another good option, with much more depth than either AoC or WoW.
Well in that case we will be tired of WoW, EQ2, VG, D&D, LOTROL etc etc etc.
The only i know that is different is EvE.
But hey i guess that is AoC's fault as well, with some of the arguments i have seen in this thread i would not be suprised if some claimed it was!
If we have to blame anyone, it would have to be Everquest, for obvious reasons.
Totally agree on this one. War will have the same amount of let down people. I just saw a comparison of AoC and War graphics, omg AoC rocks in that department. Im still looking forward to try the gameplay of war though.
Totally agree on this one. War will have the same amount of let down people. I just saw a comparison of AoC and War graphics, omg AoC rocks in that department. Im still looking forward to try the gameplay of war though.
Have fun with your AoC epic sieges with those kind of graphics
.
--------------------------------------
A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.