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Few questions
jaycee2006
Member Posts: 466
RIght, to start with, I just came off wow, like I always do, frustrated. WoW only has 9 classes, and yet still, it is unbalnced. When shamans first get windfury, they are overpowered. In the 10-19 bracket, rogues rule over all others,at 70, druid is the class to be, etc.. But WaR has 20 classes, is it possible to keep all of these classes on an equal level?? Or will there be classes owning all others or most others? If any one has any evidence of balancing or if any one played DAoC please leave comments on how mythic balanced classes there.
Secondly, from what I know, keeps are in the large RvR areas, where you can just run around and basically world pvp, and from what I understand, tanks will stand at the door, inside and outside, so when the tanks are cut down they can defend on the inside too, but will the mages and the rangers, or any one with long range attacks, be able to stand on top of the keep, and shoot down into the attackers? If so, will this be effective defence, or just a bit of support before the rangers get shot down?
One last thing, If tanks defend at the bottom, mages, rangers, healers atop the keep, what position in all this do the melee dps classes have?
Cheers for any response.
Comments
Games cannot be balanced around 1v1. End of story. The only reason people say rogues are OP in WOW is because they are talking about a 1v1 fight when the rogue starts stealthed and lands an Ambush attack to initiate the combat. If my mage is 30 yards away from a rogue who isn't stealthed (as is normal in group play), that rogue doesn't have a prayer against me.
PvP is usually balanced around group mechanisms. In WOW, the 'target' size the devs work with is 5v5.. in Warhammer it will be much bigger. To put it in perspective, in WOW, when a rogue opens with a stealth Ambush, he will do a good deal of damage to one player, but then is completely helpless against the rest of the team. Rogues peak effectiveness is the first 5 seconds of combat, but their effectiveness drops substantially after that. A druid is exactly the opposite...their entire effectiveness is that they can prolong combat and outlast everyone. Most of the other classes fall somewhere in between. You mentioned Enhancement Shaman.. they are the most 'spikey' damage of all. Yes, in the middle of combat if they get two windfury procs close together, they can own anyone... but on the other hand.. if they don't get windfury procs, they are by far the weakest pvp character.
If you look at WOW.. the 2000+ 5v5 arena teams are very very evenly represented in classes. Warriors and Restro druids are slightly over represented, Shaman are slightly underrepresented, but they are all within a few percentage points of each other.
Warhammer is going to have epic battles.. the devs would be completely wasting time if they tried to make sure every class is balanced against every other class 1v1.
Thanks for the input, but it didnt answer any of my questions. And I understand WAR has dueling, so there must be some kind of 1v1 balancing. This has also brought another question to mind, if all the players see a light armoured target, the whole team could just hit them once, and they would die. If I was that player, I would not enjoy playing in that situation.
Any input on any of my original questions would be great.
Wow... people who complain about 1v1 and then demand 1v1 balancing. Serious. This is why WoW PvP fails, because of guys like the OP.
None of your questions can be answered until the NDA is lifted. You're just going to have to wait like everyone else, buddy.
Oh no no, I'm not demanding they balance stuff, I simply don't want to see one class being abused because of its power, rather like the Flavor of the month that happens in wow, currently druid. I was simply asking how they did this in daoc.
They're using rock paper scissors so the game is not balanced for 1vs1 at all ...there is no DUELING as far as I know. The dev's don't want players dueling their own side since Order Classes are not balanced against Order Classes. The classes are balanced against the opposing side and you don't duel the opposing side you fight to the death in an epic battle. Think of it this way for every class on the Destruction side there is a class on the Order Side that mirror their archtype. Cutting the balancing nearly in half. Take for example the Magus, he's the Chaos version of a Dwarven Engineer. While the Engineer uses slightly different mechanics & better armor his archtype of Ranged DPS is essentially what a Magus is. The engineer gets turrets, guns, grenades and his arc spanner while the Magus gets spells, summoned stationary demons, and his staff. How they're played is about the only thing that sets them truely apart.
Even if classes on the same side share a basic archtype they play completely different. Take the Runepriest, the Warrior Priest and the Archmage. All three are healer archtypes but how they're played and what their role is in a fight is completely different. It'd be incredibly hard to balance the three of them against each other for a fight and keep them balanced against Destruction.
WAR is strickly group based balanced yes there will be a class or to on the otherside that your class is particularly strong against but the chances of meeting one of them alone is going to be relatively small.
Its hard to compare WAR & WoW since WoW's constant tree changes and builds that are completely worthless make it hard game to balance especially since their stealth mechanics are completely crap.
As for Keeps think of it like a real castle...You don't want them busting your keep door in so naturally you'll have people standing up on the embattlements firing down on the attackers. There are even siege weaposn designed for using from the keep walls. You won't always have tanks defending off at the door you'll need them shielding you while you use the siege weapons its only when the door is fixing to break you'd want them down on the ground.
Siege weaposn are usuable inside, ontop of, and outside of the Keep..there's plenty to do for non ranged fighters.
Thanks for the info banth.
Any time! *goes back to preparing Vats of Boiling Oil for pouring on people trying to bash the gates in, laughs evilly* hehe
Yes, I played DAoC and keep attack and defense is something I loved.
Tanks will stand near the doors -- I am going to assume at this point that like DAoC doors can be battered down. There will usually be a secondary entrance/exit, or, lacking one, tanks will jump off the walls onto enemies -- and try to take down some enemies before they get killed.
Tanks will defend like a shield wall when the doors are breeched and it will be general chaos and slaughter as the enemy tries to force its way through the opened doors. Melee DPS will perform like tanks, since they are light tanks, and will attempt to kill before being killed -- this will probably be most effective on wounded or lightly-armored targets of opportunity.
Ranged attackers will man the walls -- this is what ranged attackers do -- and they will most certainly cut you down if you get too close. Prediction about this: High Elf Shadow Rangers will be TOUGH to deal with, especially the ones whose Mastery is all in Bow skills.
Ranged attack is most definitely an EFFECTIVE defense and will be used will deadliness especially when single targets are selected by multiple ranged attackers. This is the ranged equivalent of the "assist train."
Balancing will be REALM vs REALM balancing and NOT 1v1 balance. Some classes will probably kick your ass -- regularly. Learn to avoid them. You will kick other asses equally well -- learn to seek them out.
One thing that should play out strategically is that selecting the location to launch attacks from or to defend from will be one crucial determining factor to success.
Hopefully, there will be a full gamut of single target attacks as well as AoE attacks or debuffs.
Remembering the old video of the two Bright Wizards way up on a bluff overlooking a battle (position) and then raining FIRE down on their enemies (AoE) has a devastating effect on the course of the battle.
~~~
It'll be fun!
Oh, and btw, SIEGE WEAPONS, god, I love siege weapons!
~ Ancient Membership ~
So engineers will plant turrets around the keep and then shoot enemies from the top? I can just imagine as a shadow warrior co ordinating ranged attacks, telling your party to aim and fire at single targets to take them down asap.. /slobber