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What do people think about the new Monk class?
Simple question, basically I'd like to know people thoughts on how it plays and the design etc.
Personally I like them quite a bit. They are fun, but the way Ki works and the moves needs some help.
Finsihers are too easy to lose. A bit too hard to use for their purposes. Either due to short durations or taking too long to get set up combined with losing them. A number of them are redudndant with stunning fist or other things as well.
Also I think Ki generation in groups needs some looking into. The more DPS you have the less Ki you get. So a group of 4 generates Ki much different than a group of 6.
All in all I think its pretty good but it needs some tweaks to address usefulness and QOL issues. Maybe a slight overhaul of effects.
Comments
I am really loving monks so far, but to tell you the truth I have yet to use a finishing move because the mob is dead before I get it off. I am only 4th level right now so I hope this changes down the road when the mobs have more hit dice.
-Dailus
Did you go dark path or light path?
I went light so I use the 3 x light finsiher quite often. But most other finishers are rare or never used.
Note: I do not use the block and attack thing. I dunno if that is a bug. But it seems like one. If you block and fire off the attack you use no KI and can charge yourself for a finsiher. Now if this is working as intended then things would be a good bit different.
I don't like the general feel of DDO monks, compared to D&D monks. In D&D, you were encouraged to use your fists if you had a lot of monk levels, because your fists were way better than any other weapon you could use. In DDO, you're encouraged to use kamas at high levels, because you can't dual wield your fists.
Technically, monks should be able to dual wield fists, but I don't really care about that. Maybe it would make them more DPS-powerful than Barbarians (although, Barbarians have such a huge strength bonus that I doubt it), maybe it would unbalance monks in the opposite direction of how they're going right now.
I don't really care what's done about how the monks balance with other classes. I want hand-to-hand combat to be more viable at higher monk levels, rather than less viable. Kamas should be more useful early on, fists should be more useful later on - not the other way around.
Other than that, though, I'm loving the monk class. I don't have any trouble pulling off finishers, now that I'm passed level 5 (just hit 7, today, and I've been using finishers at least once per battle). I'm a Dominion monk, and I say the finishers are interesting. They're not very useful, right now, due to the low DC to resist, but they're interesting.
For those monks who follow the Path of Inevitable Dominion, look for the sneak peak of the update (casually referred to as 7.1) that's coming in future months. It increases the DC for all finishing moves from 10 + 1/2 monk level + Wis modifier to 10 + monk level + Wis modifier.
What does this mean? For example, my 7th level monk has 16 base wisdom. When he's in combat, he uses the fire stance, decreasing his wisdom to 14. The DC for any finishers that he uses, at the moment, is (10 + 7/2 + 2) = (10 + 3.5 + 2) = 15.5, which the game interprets as 15. There are a lot of things that can roll a fortitude save against a DC of 15.
However, with the new patch coming into effect soon, the DC will increase to (10 + 7 + 2) = 19. This is almost as high as the DC for my Improved Sunder, and my Improved Sunder works 90% of the time (and uses the same saving throw - Fortitude).
This is a difference of 4, which may not look like much, but the difference grows with level. At level 16, the patch will be giving you +8 to the DC of all of your finishers.
So the Path of Inevitable Dominion is about to get a lot more interesting.
I chose the light path, but honestly being only 4th level I tend to fight in air stance with an elemental quarterstaff, ocassionally throwing out specials, but mainly on bosses/mini bosses. I am playiing a strength based warforged monk with the tactic of "hit'em fast and hit'em hard". So for I think the concept is not only easy to play, but quite effective. There may come a day when fists are more effective, but right now it looks like staves for me, this should prove even more effective when I add power attack at 6th.
-Dailus
Hey Val, it's me Validorn. I was just writing a short review on the game when I was going to pop on over to this thread and give my impressions of how you do in-game. But your already here, lol!
Guys, Valczir is really modest, so he won't ever tell you how strong his character is. I'm not saying his monk tops the charts or anything, but he kills his share of things and has the added bonus of being versatile and having utility. He has finishers that doesn't require him to equip an elemental weapon, because he has the ki to use them during battle. He also has a new ability that allows him to regen his health to 100% by meditating out of combat.
My overall impression judging by Valc's Monk and many others I have grouped with is that a monk can be a really weak class, just as likely as he can be a strong class. I've seen some just outlast other tanks and really put the dmg on as well. They have great saves, wich honestly helps them a lot. They can get out of situations that other tanks cannot. To top all of this off, they don't have that much HP's. So they are strong, just in their own way and not exactly strong like other classes are strong. They are different and easy to mess up, but also strong and good to have in a group if they know what their doing.
I'd definitely withhold judgement on the class until you are over the hump. Not sure when that hump is, but I know I fealt weak on my Monk at lvl 3. I saw monks performing pretty well around lvl 5, so maybe that's the hump.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
I still feel weak. How I manage to hold such a high kill count is beyond me.
There are a few things that really contribute to feeling weak, though. Monks are easy to mess up, very difficult to get used to, and until you really understand them, you'll be feeling weaker than you probably should. Here's a few of the things I've learned:
1) More than any other class, the monk requires a lot of skill behind the keyboard. I've been playing twitch-based games all my life, have gotten to the point where most of them are boring, and I still am having trouble getting used to the monk. I have around 15 combat feats that I use all the time, a few more that I use more occasionally, and then another 15 or so that I typically use out of combat, and I'm not even halfway to max level. I have a level 7 wizard who has fewer spells than my monk has combat feats.
2) Guess what role the monk fits into. No, seriously, just guess. Nope, you're wrong. Wanna know why? This is D&D. No class can be shoved into a specific role - clerics can be uber DPS and rogues can be heal bots.
However, there is one thing that no other class can effectively do that a monk handles with ease, and it's something that might seem surprising to those who haven't played D&D with a monk. There never really was a cllass that could fit this role, before, which is why some people can't see how a monk is useful, but they do have a generic role: caster killer.
Monks have the best saves in the game, especially when combined with the bonus to your saves from the water stance. You may not be a main battle tank, but you're a caster tank - even beholders will have a hard time doing anything to you. This is complimented by your insane movement speed and Abundant Step, which can put you behind the enemy's lines in record time. It SHOULD also be complimented by a fast attack speed (to deal damage faster) at the expense of a lower attack bonus (because casters don't have high AC), but DDO monks are not as cool as their D&D counterparts.
3) Plan your character VERY carefully. In fact, start your character, get him to level 3, then delete him, get your next one to level 4, delete him, then take a nap and think about it. Ron's character planner can help in this situation, too.
ELEMENTAL STANCES:
You will probably want to take at least one elemental path for the stance and at least one different path for the attack. Remember that you're going to want at least 14 in whatever stat the path requires, because otherwise you won't be able to take the second tier - and the second tier attacks rock. The second tier stances can sometimes be useless, but the attacks rock.
The attacks' usefulness (based solely on amount and type of damage) is typically considered, from best to worst: earth, air, water, fire. The second tier earth attack does a straight 8 damage (2 points more damage than the average damage for any other attack) and few creatures are immune to that damage. Air, water, and fire all deal the same amount of damage, but a lot of things are immune to fire, and not many are immune to air. Water is in between.
As far as I see it, the stances' usefulness is based on how your character is built and how skilled you, the player, are.
Air will speed you up. Many people have claimed that it's useless since it doesn't stack with haste, but haste is not on 100% of the time, so air is still nice, in my opinion. Also, it gives you +2 dexterity, giving you +1 AC and (if you are a weapon finesse monk) +1 to attack. It also decreases your con by 2 (and, therefor, your health is decreased by an amount equal to your character's level).
Fire will grant you incredible amounts of Ki. The +1 Ki per hit doubles the rate at which you generate Ki, which doubles the amount of elemental attacks you can pull off, which increases your damage by quite a bit (probably enough to make up for the lower speed compared to the air stance). However, in order to use this stance effectively, you need to be a skilled player - if you have to think about which button to hit to pull off an elemental attack, go with the air stance for combat - it will increase your damage without forcing you to make use of your Ki. When combined with the Cleave and Great Cleave attacks, this stance can generate an incredible amount of Ki very rapidly. It also increases your Strength by 2, increasing your base damage and (if your strength is higher than your dex or you don't have the weapon finesse feat) your attack bonus by 1. However, it decreases your wisdom by 2, which decreases your AC and the DC for any monk skills (like Stunning Fist or Fists of Darkness) that you may have by 1. It also seems to decrease the amount of health you gain from the Wholeness of Body feat you gain at level 7.
If you are taking the fire path ONLY for the stance, I would suggest just taking tier 1 - the stance doesn't get much better at tiers 2 and 3. All the other stances gradually get better, and even out with the fire stance by the end, but the fire stance never really gets all that much better.
The water stance boosts your saves. This has saved me innumerable times when fighting beholders and other powerful casters. At level 4, I'm pretty sure that I was saving against kobold shamans on elite on a roll of 4 or better, which saved me (and, therefor, the party) several times. This thing even got my entire party (all of them ghosts, at the time, because they were all dead) through a large group of kobold warriors, rogues, and shamans to the only shrine in a level of waterworks - I had to solo a large hoarde and then go up against an orange named caster. I can't tell you how many times this thing has saved me, because I really can't count them. As a bonus, it boosts your wisdom by 2, giving you +1 to AC and the DC to resist monk combat feats. I gain 2 more health per tick when using Wholeness of Body in this stance than in fire stance. This also decreases your strength by 2, decreasing damage and (if your strength is higher than your dexterity or you don't have the weapon finesse feat) attack bonus by 1.
The earth stance doesn't seem to be very popular, and I can see why. You get a small amount of damage reduction, you gain a small amount of Ki when an opponent hits you, and it slows your movement speed. You get +2 con and -2 dex. The +2 con increases your health by a small amount, where the -2 dex decreases your AC and (if you have the weapon finesse feat and your dex is higher than your strength) your attack bonus by 1. What kills this stance is that you have to be hit in order to gain that extra Ki, so a high AC actually makes this stance less useful. However, monks don't typically have a ton of health, so it's not usually a good idea to encourage monsters to hit you. Besides, playing that way would just piss off the cleric, and you don't want to piss off the cleric.
So the usefulness of the stances, in my opinion, is inversely proportional to the usefulness of the attacks. The earth attack is amazing, but the stance sucks. The fire stance is very useful, but the attack sucks. Which is why I say that you'll probably be taking at least two elemental paths.
Wheee! Patch is out! Finishers are now much more useful. The DC to resist has gone from being, "Oh, yeah, I can hit with that once in a blue moon" to "Hey, he actually saved against that? I'm impressed." I've been wandering around, paralyzing humanoids with Freezing the Lifeblood just because I can, and then watching them stand there in their pose...
It just makes me wish even more that I had enough con to take the second tier of earth (planning mistake on my part) - nausea is a nice finisher, too. Freezing the Lifeblood is cool, but only works on humanoids, so ogres and the like require a different attack.
By the way, the stances were modified, too. The movement speed decrease has been ... well, decreased, for the earth stance, plus it gets more Ki with higher ranks when you get hit, plus it gives you more DR with more ranks...
Release Notes
The Monk is the most....whatever you want it to be class in the game. Heck if you are another class and take a couple of levels of Monk you can screw yourself over.
As a sorc I have partied with a lot of people, the wildest was with 5 other monks. 2 were offensive in nature, 2 were defensive and one was in the middle. It was crazy. I could never play the class, because I believe it is for the hardcore DDO player. A noob would never do well with it. Heck, I have been playing since launch, I made one and lasted 4 levels before giving up.
It is a fun class, if you want to spend the time and energy to figure out what you want, how you are going to get it and if the monk can deliever that for you.