I spoke about this on another thread already.. and it was posted on another board. In instances... dispite daoc not having instanced pvp.. daoc players are usually scoring higher.
another trend people are noticing? More wow players are playing the physical damage dealing classes and daoc "groups" are healers and tanks...... Im guessing this is because of the dynamics of what worked in each game people are trying to duplicate that success in the new game. But rumor has it that the top scorers are already daoc vets, lets see how it is when open beta lifts. I could go into more specifics of what I actually see in beta but it would fall under NDA.
Look, we all realize that WoW is a no-skill time sink, it's revolution in the MMORPG market was the fact that everything was made simple, no fail, and idiot proof. It's not a wonder why it do so well in America .
The big question from me, not being in beta, is will WAR follow the new gen of dumbed down MMORPGs or will it bring back the skill of EQ, DaoC, or even Vanguard and EVE?
It's great to be a intuitive player at these sorts of games. I would love to see an immergence of a true skill based game, but it's much easier to market to the legions of morons. I pray to god that those of us that think along these lines dont go into battle expecting sharpened swords, and enter a foam boffer arena.
Anyway, the posts I've read of yours give me hope that this will be a game that can reflect true strategy, and if that is true, the results of your posts will be true as well.
Oh here we go with ignorant stereotypes. Hmmm, let's see... wow has broke records in OVERSEAS sales. First you get the comments about wow being dead without the asian market then it's just for the dumb americans. Wow has done great in ANY country it's been released in. You wow haters need to write an official manual so you don't stumble around contradicting yourselves so much.
Well jeez, sorry you didnt like my snide comment. It's pretty obvious why we "haters" don't think alike... we're different people. But it's funny that the only comment the lot of you has to spam is factual remark about America. Boohoo the orc is red, the orc is blue. WoW is still easier to master then tic tac toe, doesnt change a thing.
omg your gonna zerg. no omg your gonna zerg. rvr=zerg nothing about rvr says 1v1, 5v5, 7v7, 8v8 this is what puts WoW players at the disadvantage. daoc players have played 200v200v300, 50v90v175, or any way you wanna put numbers. WoW players other than pvp servers which really don't have a concept of this in any form have no true idea of what rvr is. don't let the leetest bs daoc players kid you. most daoc players played/play for the realm in a zerg situation. you don't take keeps with 8 people. DAOC players will at first be better under that situation. Small man will probly be a different story.
WoW PvP servers were a joke and I know cause I played on one for three years. The server crashes whenever 120 or more people gather in one place, which was why we couldn't do open world pvp. And who said you couldn't take keeps with 8 people? I don't think DAoC players or WoW players will have much if any advantage really, the people who have been in beta for quite some time and seen the entire game are the ones with an advantage. Not the newly invited testers. The ones from before guild beta.
These generalizations don't make sense to me...You're talking about a game with 9 million players, how can you even begin to make such sweeping generalizations like "WoW is an easy game therefore the players that come over will be expecting something similar" ?
Also what are we saying is easy about wow? Getting to 60? Sure. How about getting the top teir raid or arena gear. I don't think so. It requires having no life and skill / teamwork on top of it to excell in wow.
No life, yes. Skill? No.
Agreed. Because you raid 3-4 times a week as a second job to get armor that won't make a difference, that's skill? No, that's... frightening that you'd be willing to do that. The raids aren't difficult, and people download raid tools to help them with it! REAL raids are found in EQ and DAoC. They're truly difficult with their own little strategies, and its not limited to a finite amount of people just to artificially make it harder, its hard enough.
But, PvE is not the argument here, its RvR, and WoW's Arena doesn't even hold a candle to the level of difficulty, depth, and fun that was DAoC RvR.
Teamwork? What teamwork is there with one guy screaming over ventrillo telling everyone to run behind a monster? Back in my day, we used text chat :P
These generalizations don't make sense to me...You're talking about a game with 9 million players, how can you even begin to make such sweeping generalizations like "WoW is an easy game therefore the players that come over will be expecting something similar" ?
Also what are we saying is easy about wow? Getting to 60? Sure. How about getting the top teir raid or arena gear. I don't think so. It requires having no life and skill / teamwork on top of it to excell in wow.
No life, yes. Skill? No.
Have you tried getting a 2050 rating in arena? No. Got your full top tier raid gear? Didn't think so. Blizzard said in the beginning that the game was "easy learn, difficult to master". You guys are criticising it on the "easy" part when that's actually a strong selling point and why so many got hooked. From there it's as challenging as you want it to be. is silly elitism like someone said.
Il agree with raiding, ofcourse iv always viewed raiding as a much better show of skill since it takes a large number of people to do their job(tuffest part is organization and people listening not the fight themselves)
BUT DO NOT EVEN GET MY ARENA, ARENA IN WOW IS THE MOST UNBALANCED POS THAT HAS EVER EXISTED! IT IS NOT ABOUT SKILL ITS ABOUT POLE DANCING AND HAVING A DRUID HEALER!
For the person above, the tuffest raids are the raids in WoW that relize that people use mods, Sunwell and Nax are examples of it.
I can only hope that with WARS end game PvE that with its small size, that it is a skill thing that will get you through , can only hope because im tired of the issue being get the numbers .
These generalizations don't make sense to me...You're talking about a game with 9 million players, how can you even begin to make such sweeping generalizations like "WoW is an easy game therefore the players that come over will be expecting something similar" ?
Also what are we saying is easy about wow? Getting to 60? Sure. How about getting the top teir raid or arena gear. I don't think so. It requires having no life and skill / teamwork on top of it to excell in wow.
No life, yes. Skill? No.
Have you tried getting a 2050 rating in arena? No. Got your full top tier raid gear? Didn't think so. Blizzard said in the beginning that the game was "easy learn, difficult to master". You guys are criticising it on the "easy" part when that's actually a strong selling point and why so many got hooked. From there it's as challenging as you want it to be. is silly elitism like someone said.
Il agree with raiding, ofcourse iv always viewed raiding as a much better show of skill since it takes a large number of people to do their job(tuffest part is organization and people listening)
BUT DO NOT EVEN GET MY ARENA, ARENA IN WOW IS THE MOST UNBALANCED POS THAT HAS EVER EXISTED! IT IS NOT ABOUT SKILL ITS ABOUT POLE DANCING AND HAVING A DRUID HEALER!
For the person above, the tuffest raids are the raids in WoW that relize that people use mods, Sunwell and Nax are examples of it.
If people think they need "skill" to play WoW has got it all wrong...
These generalizations don't make sense to me...You're talking about a game with 9 million players, how can you even begin to make such sweeping generalizations like "WoW is an easy game therefore the players that come over will be expecting something similar" ?
Also what are we saying is easy about wow? Getting to 60? Sure. How about getting the top teir raid or arena gear. I don't think so. It requires having no life and skill / teamwork on top of it to excell in wow.
No life, yes. Skill? No.
Have you tried getting a 2050 rating in arena? No. Got your full top tier raid gear? Didn't think so. Blizzard said in the beginning that the game was "easy learn, difficult to master". You guys are criticising it on the "easy" part when that's actually a strong selling point and why so many got hooked. From there it's as challenging as you want it to be. is silly elitism like someone said.
Il agree with raiding, ofcourse iv always viewed raiding as a much better show of skill since it takes a large number of people to do their job(tuffest part is organization and people listening)
BUT DO NOT EVEN GET MY ARENA, ARENA IN WOW IS THE MOST UNBALANCED POS THAT HAS EVER EXISTED! IT IS NOT ABOUT SKILL ITS ABOUT POLE DANCING AND HAVING A DRUID HEALER!
For the person above, the tuffest raids are the raids in WoW that relize that people use mods, Sunwell and Nax are examples of it.
If people think they need "skill" to play WoW has got it all wrong...
I think that DAoC vets will have the upper hand in the basics, leading them to being the best in the beginning, but as people from other games (like myself) play more, we'll get the hang of it and eventually we will be up there with the DAoCers
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
I won't get into the generalized WOW vs. DAOC player skill discussion that seems to be going on. But I will just add this....
As a beta player, it brings me NO END of laughs when I see some character running up to or sneak attacking another (or me) player and they are bunny hoping like mad and circle straffing only to get taken out VERY fast. I always just laugh "yep....there's another WOW player that just got taught a lesson." And yes, I mean "no end of laughs" because you see it all the time. I can only guess once everyone is let into the game how much more of this you will see play out over and over.
I don't think wow players will end up much worse off than DAoC vets in the end, but it maybe somewhat of a change for the Twink obsessed BG pvpers to learn how to use teamwork and strategy during rvr.
I have played both DAoC and WoW since their betas and what I can see is a difference in play-style.
In DAoC RvR you were only as good as your group. One awesome group of 8 players or so could take out zergs 5 time's their size. Strategy was everything, even down to one on one fights. You were never completely out-geared to the point where your opponent had twice your HPs and DPS so every fight came down to skill (or class balance)
In WoW, teamwork is also important in the BGs, but very hard to find. WoW allowed an emphasis to be played on soloing during pvp (running flags, taking checkpoints, ganking etc. So many cowboys out there running off by themselves ganking and really not amounting to much.
The real difference in skill will be this, DAoC playerswill know the value of a hard-core team. They will have at least seen or know how to use strategy, not just straight-up pvp skills, but battlefield tactics, the psychology of zergs and pvp leadership, keep defense and assaults and understand efficient combat vs. impressive big hits.
For many WoW players pvp skill meant running around in a circle jumping Whoever did this the best was the best pvper. They are going to have to abandon the idea of the super-geared badass soloer and have to avoid having too many chiefs and not enough indians. Gear won't define you in WAR.
I'm laughing at all the epeen being tossed around in this thread. I'm a former DAOC player, yet I assure you, there are some very talented PVP'ers in WOW and they'll hold their own I'm sure. In fact, expect players who've played both games to form powerful guilds that include players from all backgrounds.
Winning guilds don't care how well you performed in your last game, but how well you perform in the current one.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Personally I think WAR is 'learnable' enough that pretty much anyone who enjoys the game will figure out a way to play it. Sure there will be a learning curve for both sides but eventually...if folks want to play...they'll figure out what works best for them. (And yes..a lot will figure out based on the Flavor of the Month build even though Mythic has done much to even the table and not make any one class overheavy.)
Well yeah, it's not an argument of the players in the game, just the overall theme the game creates. There's always going to be exceptions to everything.
It's like if your cunning corporation strategist in eve suddenly decided to quit and go play WoW, he wouldn't be any less of a skilled player, but his skills wouldn't really be seen in a game model that doesnt let him use them to a full extent.
It's the same thing for PvE. If a player that was raised on WoW suddenly decided to go play a classic MMORPG, well he'd run out solo, and realize that an even level mob would suddenly charge him and drop him dead in 2 hits. Then he'd realize that he just lost a tenth of his level. He would look to not find a "compass" showing him his corpse, he would not be spawned and the most convenient area, and would have to figure out how to get back to his loot being totally vulnerable and weaponless, having no clue where to find his corpse, as he didnt get a loc check before he died. Confused and bewildered, the player goes back to WoW, and complains about how an x minute debuff and loss of gold is so damn harsh.
Now an old school raised player plays WoW. He careless pulls dozens of mobs, killing them with ease. One pull he decides to grab a soda and make a pizza during combat, and finally dies. He is respawned with NO XP LOSS, a pointer directing him to his corpse! He becomes totally invincible on his run there! Having been raised on a rewarding and punishing system of play, he quits WoW and slaps his head whenever he sees "WoW vet"
And like I said, there are exceptions. Some of the people raised and skilled at these games decide it's fun to stay and triumph over teh n00bs. But it doesnt make sense to me. You can't take a NATO task force member and put him in a funland laser tag arena (no running, no ducking, no jumping), and expect him to perform, or more importantly learn new skills!
So yes, to all you wow vets, that's awesome that you can get the super dooper rank bonus armor, and you can be in the top 10% of the herd, but it's never going to change that you're the top dog in the bottom of the food chain.
I've seen a complacency from DAoC guilds & players, presuming that because it's another Mythic game they're going to be at an advantage in Warhammer. What they don't realise is that WoW players aren't whiny kids who run off to hunt kills and avoid teamwork, like the common myth that's passed around; they're actually some of the most hardcore players in MMO history. I'm looking forward to DAoC guilds getting a rude awakening when they're steamrolled
I'm a DAOC player. I'm also a WoW player. Guess that makes me even better eh!?
No seriously, as long as we are all playing and WAR is a huge success, we are all winners.
Good PvP-er will be good PVP-er just need some time to adapt to a new game play style doubt that since all WOW fanboys bitchin about how is "similar to wow " they will hawe advantage cause WAR got some colision and physics. WOW was wrealy easy to play pvp meaning U circle around some1 and then apears some dmg above your heads while other cant hit u pfft, nno strategy no nothing easy and fun but I seriously doubt that all other players from other MMO`s will be that much criplled cause of WOW vets get real plz all will adapt to WAR style and then time shall tell
WoW is a very easy mmo based off high twitch low strategy high fun playstyle. so most of its fans started playing as young as 13 and would be 16 now.
DAoC is a HARD mmo based off low twitch and high strategy and was not a very high on fun game. The difficulty of the game at the time made for an average age of 25 thus making them 31 now.
No disrepect kraiden, but MMORPGs all target the same demographic that other types of games do. The male teens and tweens. However teens and tweens do not all have to have the same kind of desires or preferences.
What you see there is actually just a general differentiation between favorite flavors, not age. DAoC players will have an advantage for a while in WAR because those games are going to be very similar and they are made by the same company.
You also assume that all the players of WoW only, or truly prefer, the PvP and what that system demands for success. The reality is that they are more or less forced into that kind of playstyle.
___________________ Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
I personally think the Hello Kitty Online players that switch over to WAR will shine the brightest. They have one thing up their sleeves that many people don't have and that's playing as a pussy.
And we all know that mmorpgs are filled with dicks. And what is the one weakness to a dick? Thats right, pussy.
well im just gonna go off what i remember so here we go:
DAoC => in RvR players ran 8-man, PuGs or zerg. in the first 2 players tend to listen (8 man, ofcourse, had best coordination) zerg you had some structure but would get people that dont listen more often.
WoW => never could find open world PvP groups, BGs were usually uncoordinated and no one played defense. the exception was if you were in a guild group and u usually won b/c of slight cooperation.
-------------------------------------
from this i deduce that DAoC players will have the advantage, since RvR is all about working together for your realm, it is going to take teamwork on a large scale, which i had never seen in the time i spent in WoW. This is, again, from what i witnessed in both games but honestly, when was the last time there was a large scale PvP against one of the cities in WoW? (i've seen people complain about this, thats why i ask) even in the 6 months i played, i viewed 1 real attack and 2 times were people camped in the tram between stormwind and ironforge... this was back when the game first came out also.
Protip: If someone does NOT list at least one positive and one negative about the game they are critiquing, its best to ignore the post.
I to have played DAoC and WoW along with many other MMO's (Lineage 2, FFXI, SWG, SB, EQ/EQ2 etc......) and one thing you will always notice is that u cant take your old play style from a previous game and bring it to a new one because it will never work the same as before. it doesnt matter how similar the 2 5 or 10 games are or even if they are made by the same company they are all different and have their own way that things are going to work. I admit i do believe that WoW vets are going to have a shock to their system when they see what real PvP/RvR is like and that DAoC vets are going to have a basic idea of what to expect. But an advantage, no i dont think so. No matter if u played DAoC from CB or OB till now WAR is still going to be different and have its own way that things are going to work. The only people that are going to have any type of advantage over anyone else is the people that have no lives and all they know how to do is eat, sleep, shit, work and play (mind u that sleep probably isnt done the most often in the list) because thats the ones that are going to learn it the fastest.
like many others i enjoyed my share of pvp/rvr games to include daoc, L2, shadowbane, UO, wow etc...imho I have never played a games with a better system then daoc when it came to rvr. I do think players from daoc will have a slight advantage over players new to rvr. Depending on the player though I'm sure some will catch on real quick and be like "hell yeah, now this is real pvp" while others that went from being highest dps to "wtf, why can't i kill this guy" will be like "rvr is stupid".
well im just gonna go off what i remember so here we go:
DAoC => in RvR players ran 8-man, PuGs or zerg. in the first 2 players tend to listen (8 man, ofcourse, had best coordination) zerg you had some structure but would get people that dont listen more often.
WoW => never could find open world PvP groups, BGs were usually uncoordinated and no one played defense. the exception was if you were in a guild group and u usually won b/c of slight cooperation. ------------------------------------- from this i deduce that DAoC players will have the advantage, since RvR is all about working together for your realm, it is going to take teamwork on a large scale, which i had never seen in the time i spent in WoW. This is, again, from what i witnessed in both games but honestly, when was the last time there was a large scale PvP against one of the cities in WoW? (i've seen people complain about this, thats why i ask) even in the 6 months i played, i viewed 1 real attack and 2 times were people camped in the tram between stormwind and ironforge... this was back when the game first came out also.
There were huge raids on towns and cities before the BGs were implemented. By huge I mean 120-160, minimum, just on one side. Lagged a bit, but it definitely happened. They co-operated smoothly too. I remember being in a huge train that traveled (ran, didn't fly) across two continents to get to the enemy village, filled with every level player (why we ran) .
Thatis exactly what a lot of WoW veterans miss, thatis what they refer to when they mention world pvp before BGs. That is also what I am talking about when WoW players make do with what they have, as world PvP is not rewarded AT ALL. Rewards are connected to BGs/Arena.
For a very, very long time they were actually punished as any member of a raid who killed a civilian NPC would land everybody from the raid who were in proximity a DHK even if they didn't attack.
___________________ Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
Comments
Look, we all realize that WoW is a no-skill time sink, it's revolution in the MMORPG market was the fact that everything was made simple, no fail, and idiot proof. It's not a wonder why it do so well in America
.
The big question from me, not being in beta, is will WAR follow the new gen of dumbed down MMORPGs or will it bring back the skill of EQ, DaoC, or even Vanguard and EVE?
It's great to be a intuitive player at these sorts of games. I would love to see an immergence of a true skill based game, but it's much easier to market to the legions of morons. I pray to god that those of us that think along these lines dont go into battle expecting sharpened swords, and enter a foam boffer arena.
Anyway, the posts I've read of yours give me hope that this will be a game that can reflect true strategy, and if that is true, the results of your posts will be true as well.
Oh here we go with ignorant stereotypes. Hmmm, let's see... wow has broke records in OVERSEAS sales. First you get the comments about wow being dead without the asian market then it's just for the dumb americans. Wow has done great in ANY country it's been released in. You wow haters need to write an official manual so you don't stumble around contradicting yourselves so much.
Well jeez, sorry you didnt like my snide comment. It's pretty obvious why we "haters" don't think alike... we're different people. But it's funny that the only comment the lot of you has to spam is factual remark about America. Boohoo the orc is red, the orc is blue. WoW is still easier to master then tic tac toe, doesnt change a thing.
WoW PvP servers were a joke and I know cause I played on one for three years. The server crashes whenever 120 or more people gather in one place, which was why we couldn't do open world pvp. And who said you couldn't take keeps with 8 people? I don't think DAoC players or WoW players will have much if any advantage really, the people who have been in beta for quite some time and seen the entire game are the ones with an advantage. Not the newly invited testers. The ones from before guild beta.
<a href="http://dailysurveypanel.com/?r=Varking"><img src="http://b01.dailysurveypanel.com/dsp_468x60.gif"; border=0></a>
Also what are we saying is easy about wow? Getting to 60? Sure. How about getting the top teir raid or arena gear. I don't think so. It requires having no life and skill / teamwork on top of it to excell in wow.
No life, yes. Skill? No.
Agreed. Because you raid 3-4 times a week as a second job to get armor that won't make a difference, that's skill? No, that's... frightening that you'd be willing to do that. The raids aren't difficult, and people download raid tools to help them with it! REAL raids are found in EQ and DAoC. They're truly difficult with their own little strategies, and its not limited to a finite amount of people just to artificially make it harder, its hard enough.
But, PvE is not the argument here, its RvR, and WoW's Arena doesn't even hold a candle to the level of difficulty, depth, and fun that was DAoC RvR.
Teamwork? What teamwork is there with one guy screaming over ventrillo telling everyone to run behind a monster? Back in my day, we used text chat :P
Darkfall Travelogues!
Also what are we saying is easy about wow? Getting to 60? Sure. How about getting the top teir raid or arena gear. I don't think so. It requires having no life and skill / teamwork on top of it to excell in wow.
No life, yes. Skill? No.
Have you tried getting a 2050 rating in arena? No. Got your full top tier raid gear? Didn't think so. Blizzard said in the beginning that the game was "easy learn, difficult to master". You guys are criticising it on the "easy" part when that's actually a strong selling point and why so many got hooked. From there it's as challenging as you want it to be. is silly elitism like someone said.
Il agree with raiding, ofcourse iv always viewed raiding as a much better show of skill since it takes a large number of people to do their job(tuffest part is organization and people listening not the fight themselves)
BUT DO NOT EVEN GET MY ARENA, ARENA IN WOW IS THE MOST UNBALANCED POS THAT HAS EVER EXISTED! IT IS NOT ABOUT SKILL ITS ABOUT POLE DANCING AND HAVING A DRUID HEALER!
For the person above, the tuffest raids are the raids in WoW that relize that people use mods, Sunwell and Nax are examples of it.
I can only hope that with WARS end game PvE that with its small size, that it is a skill thing that will get you through , can only hope because im tired of the issue being get the numbers .
Also what are we saying is easy about wow? Getting to 60? Sure. How about getting the top teir raid or arena gear. I don't think so. It requires having no life and skill / teamwork on top of it to excell in wow.
No life, yes. Skill? No.
Have you tried getting a 2050 rating in arena? No. Got your full top tier raid gear? Didn't think so. Blizzard said in the beginning that the game was "easy learn, difficult to master". You guys are criticising it on the "easy" part when that's actually a strong selling point and why so many got hooked. From there it's as challenging as you want it to be. is silly elitism like someone said.
Il agree with raiding, ofcourse iv always viewed raiding as a much better show of skill since it takes a large number of people to do their job(tuffest part is organization and people listening)
BUT DO NOT EVEN GET MY ARENA, ARENA IN WOW IS THE MOST UNBALANCED POS THAT HAS EVER EXISTED! IT IS NOT ABOUT SKILL ITS ABOUT POLE DANCING AND HAVING A DRUID HEALER!
For the person above, the tuffest raids are the raids in WoW that relize that people use mods, Sunwell and Nax are examples of it.
If people think they need "skill" to play WoW has got it all wrong...
Also what are we saying is easy about wow? Getting to 60? Sure. How about getting the top teir raid or arena gear. I don't think so. It requires having no life and skill / teamwork on top of it to excell in wow.
No life, yes. Skill? No.
Have you tried getting a 2050 rating in arena? No. Got your full top tier raid gear? Didn't think so. Blizzard said in the beginning that the game was "easy learn, difficult to master". You guys are criticising it on the "easy" part when that's actually a strong selling point and why so many got hooked. From there it's as challenging as you want it to be. is silly elitism like someone said.
Il agree with raiding, ofcourse iv always viewed raiding as a much better show of skill since it takes a large number of people to do their job(tuffest part is organization and people listening)
BUT DO NOT EVEN GET MY ARENA, ARENA IN WOW IS THE MOST UNBALANCED POS THAT HAS EVER EXISTED! IT IS NOT ABOUT SKILL ITS ABOUT POLE DANCING AND HAVING A DRUID HEALER!
For the person above, the tuffest raids are the raids in WoW that relize that people use mods, Sunwell and Nax are examples of it.
If people think they need "skill" to play WoW has got it all wrong...
A popular saying but you can't back it up.
I think that DAoC vets will have the upper hand in the basics, leading them to being the best in the beginning, but as people from other games (like myself) play more, we'll get the hang of it and eventually we will be up there with the DAoCers
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
I won't get into the generalized WOW vs. DAOC player skill discussion that seems to be going on. But I will just add this....
As a beta player, it brings me NO END of laughs when I see some character running up to or sneak attacking another (or me) player and they are bunny hoping like mad and circle straffing only to get taken out VERY fast. I always just laugh "yep....there's another WOW player that just got taught a lesson."
And yes, I mean "no end of laughs" because you see it all the time. I can only guess once everyone is let into the game how much more of this you will see play out over and over.
I don't think wow players will end up much worse off than DAoC vets in the end, but it maybe somewhat of a change for the Twink obsessed BG pvpers to learn how to use teamwork and strategy during rvr.
I have played both DAoC and WoW since their betas and what I can see is a difference in play-style.
In DAoC RvR you were only as good as your group. One awesome group of 8 players or so could take out zergs 5 time's their size. Strategy was everything, even down to one on one fights. You were never completely out-geared to the point where your opponent had twice your HPs and DPS so every fight came down to skill (or class balance)
In WoW, teamwork is also important in the BGs, but very hard to find. WoW allowed an emphasis to be played on soloing during pvp (running flags, taking checkpoints, ganking etc. So many cowboys out there running off by themselves ganking and really not amounting to much.
The real difference in skill will be this, DAoC playerswill know the value of a hard-core team. They will have at least seen or know how to use strategy, not just straight-up pvp skills, but battlefield tactics, the psychology of zergs and pvp leadership, keep defense and assaults and understand efficient combat vs. impressive big hits.
For many WoW players pvp skill meant running around in a circle jumping Whoever did this the best was the best pvper. They are going to have to abandon the idea of the super-geared badass soloer and have to avoid having too many chiefs and not enough indians. Gear won't define you in WAR.
I'm laughing at all the epeen being tossed around in this thread. I'm a former DAOC player, yet I assure you, there are some very talented PVP'ers in WOW and they'll hold their own I'm sure. In fact, expect players who've played both games to form powerful guilds that include players from all backgrounds.
Winning guilds don't care how well you performed in your last game, but how well you perform in the current one.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Personally I think WAR is 'learnable' enough that pretty much anyone who enjoys the game will figure out a way to play it. Sure there will be a learning curve for both sides but eventually...if folks want to play...they'll figure out what works best for them. (And yes..a lot will figure out based on the Flavor of the Month build even though Mythic has done much to even the table and not make any one class overheavy.)
Well yeah, it's not an argument of the players in the game, just the overall theme the game creates. There's always going to be exceptions to everything.
It's like if your cunning corporation strategist in eve suddenly decided to quit and go play WoW, he wouldn't be any less of a skilled player, but his skills wouldn't really be seen in a game model that doesnt let him use them to a full extent.
It's the same thing for PvE. If a player that was raised on WoW suddenly decided to go play a classic MMORPG, well he'd run out solo, and realize that an even level mob would suddenly charge him and drop him dead in 2 hits. Then he'd realize that he just lost a tenth of his level. He would look to not find a "compass" showing him his corpse, he would not be spawned and the most convenient area, and would have to figure out how to get back to his loot being totally vulnerable and weaponless, having no clue where to find his corpse, as he didnt get a loc check before he died. Confused and bewildered, the player goes back to WoW, and complains about how an x minute debuff and loss of gold is so damn harsh.
Now an old school raised player plays WoW. He careless pulls dozens of mobs, killing them with ease. One pull he decides to grab a soda and make a pizza during combat, and finally dies. He is respawned with NO XP LOSS, a pointer directing him to his corpse! He becomes totally invincible on his run there! Having been raised on a rewarding and punishing system of play, he quits WoW and slaps his head whenever he sees "WoW vet"
And like I said, there are exceptions. Some of the people raised and skilled at these games decide it's fun to stay and triumph over teh n00bs. But it doesnt make sense to me. You can't take a NATO task force member and put him in a funland laser tag arena (no running, no ducking, no jumping), and expect him to perform, or more importantly learn new skills!
So yes, to all you wow vets, that's awesome that you can get the super dooper rank bonus armor, and you can be in the top 10% of the herd, but it's never going to change that you're the top dog in the bottom of the food chain.
*cough* the chronicles of spellborn *cough*
*cough* the chronicles of spellborn *cough*
Looks interesting, thanks for the rec!
I guess if hardcore means playing too often
I'm a DAOC player. I'm also a WoW player. Guess that makes me even better eh!?
No seriously, as long as we are all playing and WAR is a huge success, we are all winners.
ColdSun
Good PvP-er will be good PVP-er just need some time to adapt to a new game play style doubt that since all WOW fanboys bitchin about how is "similar to wow " they will hawe advantage cause WAR got some colision and physics. WOW was wrealy easy to play pvp meaning U circle around some1 and then apears some dmg above your heads while other cant hit u pfft, nno strategy no nothing easy and fun but I seriously doubt that all other players from other MMO`s will be that much criplled cause of WOW vets get real plz all will adapt to WAR style and then time shall tell
No disrepect kraiden, but MMORPGs all target the same demographic that other types of games do. The male teens and tweens. However teens and tweens do not all have to have the same kind of desires or preferences.
What you see there is actually just a general differentiation between favorite flavors, not age. DAoC players will have an advantage for a while in WAR because those games are going to be very similar and they are made by the same company.
You also assume that all the players of WoW only, or truly prefer, the PvP and what that system demands for success. The reality is that they are more or less forced into that kind of playstyle.
___________________
Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/12/13/
I personally think the Hello Kitty Online players that switch over to WAR will shine the brightest. They have one thing up their sleeves that many people don't have and that's playing as a pussy.
And we all know that mmorpgs are filled with dicks. And what is the one weakness to a dick? Thats right, pussy.
well im just gonna go off what i remember so here we go:
DAoC => in RvR players ran 8-man, PuGs or zerg. in the first 2 players tend to listen (8 man, ofcourse, had best coordination) zerg you had some structure but would get people that dont listen more often.
WoW => never could find open world PvP groups, BGs were usually uncoordinated and no one played defense. the exception was if you were in a guild group and u usually won b/c of slight cooperation.
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from this i deduce that DAoC players will have the advantage, since RvR is all about working together for your realm, it is going to take teamwork on a large scale, which i had never seen in the time i spent in WoW. This is, again, from what i witnessed in both games but honestly, when was the last time there was a large scale PvP against one of the cities in WoW? (i've seen people complain about this, thats why i ask) even in the 6 months i played, i viewed 1 real attack and 2 times were people camped in the tram between stormwind and ironforge... this was back when the game first came out also.
Protip: If someone does NOT list at least one positive and one negative about the game they are critiquing, its best to ignore the post.
Lol hard Mmo, good times.
wow gear-based pvp is a joke.
I to have played DAoC and WoW along with many other MMO's (Lineage 2, FFXI, SWG, SB, EQ/EQ2 etc......) and one thing you will always notice is that u cant take your old play style from a previous game and bring it to a new one because it will never work the same as before. it doesnt matter how similar the 2 5 or 10 games are or even if they are made by the same company they are all different and have their own way that things are going to work. I admit i do believe that WoW vets are going to have a shock to their system when they see what real PvP/RvR is like and that DAoC vets are going to have a basic idea of what to expect. But an advantage, no i dont think so. No matter if u played DAoC from CB or OB till now WAR is still going to be different and have its own way that things are going to work. The only people that are going to have any type of advantage over anyone else is the people that have no lives and all they know how to do is eat, sleep, shit, work and play (mind u that sleep probably isnt done the most often in the list) because thats the ones that are going to learn it the fastest.
like many others i enjoyed my share of pvp/rvr games to include daoc, L2, shadowbane, UO, wow etc...imho I have never played a games with a better system then daoc when it came to rvr. I do think players from daoc will have a slight advantage over players new to rvr. Depending on the player though I'm sure some will catch on real quick and be like "hell yeah, now this is real pvp" while others that went from being highest dps to "wtf, why can't i kill this guy" will be like "rvr is stupid".
There were huge raids on towns and cities before the BGs were implemented. By huge I mean 120-160, minimum, just on one side. Lagged a bit, but it definitely happened. They co-operated smoothly too. I remember being in a huge train that traveled (ran, didn't fly) across two continents to get to the enemy village, filled with every level player (why we ran) .
That is exactly what a lot of WoW veterans miss, that is what they refer to when they mention world pvp before BGs. That is also what I am talking about when WoW players make do with what they have, as world PvP is not rewarded AT ALL. Rewards are connected to BGs/Arena.
For a very, very long time they were actually punished as any member of a raid who killed a civilian NPC would land everybody from the raid who were in proximity a DHK even if they didn't attack.
___________________
Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/12/13/