o no i remember when it used to be like that iv been playing WoW since OB and still do..... but i have to admit WoW slacks alot in PvP and its turning more and more into a gear based game every major patch. In DAoC u could have crappier gear than your opponent and still drop him/her with ease if u knew how to play ur character well. The only thing i really like about WoW's PvP over DAoC is that u cant auto follow ur opponent because imo that takes some of the skill out of it when all u have to do is hit buttons.(for the most part but not always) But i do miss rvr alot i mean u cant not miss taking control of a center keep (my favorite) and defending it from 2 other factions with different classes and skill sets than ur own it adds a whole new style, feel and challenge when u dont know exactly what to expect from ur opponent.
Thatis exactly what a lot of WoW veterans miss, thatis what they refer to when they mention world pvp before BGs. That is also what I am talking about when WoW players make do with what they have, as world PvP is not rewarded AT ALL. Rewards are connected to BGs/Arena.
new daily open world PvP quests - introduced patch 2.4.(except honour also 11 Gold per completed quest).
If you want to discuss a game - know of what you are talking about
Play a PvP server.
------
Non instanced Open world PvP in WotLK (lake Wintergrasp) will have lots of reward - mostly on par with arena and BG's. PvP will be on even on PVE servers.
And don't say BG are not popular these days, so see you there
The best pvp player will be those who spend the most time on it. Basically it doesnt matter how good you are just how long you spend on it and some people have longer days than 24 hours im sure.
I've seen a complacency from DAoC guilds & players, presuming that because it's another Mythic game they're going to be at an advantage in Warhammer. What they don't realise is that WoW players aren't whiny kids who run off to hunt kills and avoid teamwork, like the common myth that's passed around; they're actually some of the most hardcore players in MMO history. I'm looking forward to DAoC guilds getting a rude awakening when they're steamrolled
I completely disagree. Ive seen better teamwork and target calling in shadowbane than I ever saw in WoW.
Remember WoW is not a pvp centric game, Shadowbane is, you log on to shadowbane, you do so for one reason, to pvp, WoW, not so much.
Itll be guilds that move together from a game as a whole, who have experience fighting together in other games, who have a polished game plan, and solid teamwork built on good communication.
Kinda like when my guild went to AoC as a whole and dominated Bloodspire and build one of the first keeps on the server. It was all about being a cohesive unit far before the game was released.
Personally Im not concerned with WoW players at all, theyll be one ones hung up on trying to find ways to exploit the system while the better guilds from other games are busy getting things done.
Thatis exactly what a lot of WoW veterans miss, thatis what they refer to when they mention world pvp before BGs. That is also what I am talking about when WoW players make do with what they have, as world PvP is not rewarded AT ALL. Rewards are connected to BGs/Arena.
new daily open world PvP quests - introduced patch 2.4.(except honour also 11 Gold per completed quest).
If you want to discuss a game - know of what you are talking about
Play a PvP server.
------
Non instanced Open world PvP in WotLK (lake Wintergrasp) will have lots of reward - mostly on par with arena and BG's. PvP will be on even on PVE servers.
And don't say BG are not popular these days, so see you there
WOW PVP sucks. Its content lacking and all instanced.
WOTLK will just be the same item centric crap again. Grind for the items then leave. If the gear is on par with BG/arena then why not just get the gear from there?
1 PvP zone isn't gonna help the disaster that is wow's instanced gear-centric PvP.
what you guys are missing is WAR is the merging of wow and DAOC. So it would be completly different either but have aspects of both.
Thats not the point, the guilds that go to WAR who have been pvping together for years will dominate this game. Thats how it is in most new releases Ive seen.
That is with any game. Its the player that has the skill not the game they play.
Skill levels required are debatable betwen WOW and DAOC but with WAR a new playing field is set so we have to wait and see.
My guild in particular has made the transition from game to game, and that will play into it to. Who ever is at the top of the learning curve will be there because theyre familiar with the process behind transitioning into a new game as a guild.
The best pvp player will be those who spend the most time on it. Basically it doesnt matter how good you are just how long you spend on it and some people have longer days than 24 hours im sure.
Exactly. This is what depresses me about level 70 WoW PvP, and what I HOPE will be addressed in WAR...
Just because you have insane amounts of time to grind for gear does not mean you should always destroy everyone else you face, even if they are more skilled than you. The fact that gear overrides skill annoys me, but I guess that's what all MMOs are.
I don't think it matters who > who. In a few weeks everyone will adapt and we will all be formidable competition. I for one am very glad that there are enough folks from WoW coming over to allow this argument to be created. The more the merrier! See you folks in WAR
WoW pvpers are itching for this game. DAOC players are itching for this game. They both are going to be good if they stick together however WoW is going to have sheer numbers, literally by the thousands more per server, so they *will* dominate. It is merely part of the game's mechanic without the crowd control that DAOC players are used to.
A little rationale. DAOC players are used to a large percentage of their pvp being invested in dedicated guild groups doing 8v8 battles so they assume they have the advantage. However the pool DAOC has to draw from is minuscule compared to WoW. Yeah, WoW may have less percentage of dedicated Guild groups as a playerbase whole, however that percentage still provides a huge numerical advantage.
Thatis exactly what a lot of WoW veterans miss, thatis what they refer to when they mention world pvp before BGs. That is also what I am talking about when WoW players make do with what they have, as world PvP is not rewarded AT ALL. Rewards are connected to BGs/Arena.
new daily open world PvP quests - introduced patch 2.4.(except honour also 11 Gold per completed quest).
If you want to discuss a game - know of what you are talking about
Play a PvP server.
------
Non instanced Open world PvP in WotLK (lake Wintergrasp) will have lots of reward - mostly on par with arena and BG's. PvP will be on even on PVE servers.
And don't say BG are not popular these days, so see you there
I used to play on a pvp server...it was like a huge gankfest. I never felt PvP was any good in WoW and even posted numerous times that pvpers need some love and attention cause we were the red-headed step children in WoW. Even now its still a joke. Everyone has multiple sets of gear based on what they feel like doing i.e raid gear, pvp gear, farm/grind gear. Also, based on what they are planning to do they can just respec on a daily basis since the cost of respec is so easy to make at lvl 70.
I hope pvpers wake up and smell the coffee...it took 4 years to come up with the siege content that was talked about even during CB? now all of a sudden with WAR being released the pvp content is finally ready...whatevers. you guys can have that garbage
As a WoW player, I've tried alot of other MMOs. I hope WAR to be something else. Why? Because as said before, I'm 19 years old. I started playing WoW when I was 16, and I had no idea about the genre "MMO". To me, it went from Starcraft to Diablo to World of Warcraft. (Blizzard bitch, I know)
Anyway, it's easy for people to say that people have this or that (dis)advantage, but all it comes to is tutoring these people in how you have to play to make your faction stand out. It doesn't work if you just say, "Hey, you're from WoW - I'm not grouping with you because you got no skills!" or when you want to apply to a guild, "State your previous MMO experiences". 50% will have played WoW no matter what, either they don't say it, or they don't want to admit, but if guilds will not accept members because of that reason, the game will die and let the industry be monopolized once again by Blizzard.
Now I hope that I will enjoy this game (although I hardly doubt it won't) but I'm holding my breath about what I'm going to see or experience. As stated before, I almost did PvE content, so I know how teamwork works in a way. We'll see how that works out.
WoW pvpers are itching for this game. DAOC players are itching for this game. They both are going to be good if they stick together however WoW is going to have sheer numbers, literally by the thousands more per server, so they *will* dominate. It is merely part of the game's mechanic without the crowd control that DAOC players are used to.
A little rationale. DAOC players are used to a large percentage of their pvp being invested in dedicated guild groups doing 8v8 battles so they assume they have the advantage. However the pool DAOC has to draw from is minuscule compared to WoW. Yeah, WoW may have less percentage of dedicated Guild groups as a playerbase whole, however that percentage still provides a huge numerical advantage.
here's how i imagine things will be at first...
you'll obviously have the order zerg vs. destruction zerg, but in that huge zerg or somewhere close to it will be that group of veteran daoc players calling targets, healing party members, guarding party members, twisting etc...
communication, knowing you're class, knowing your limitations, and knowing you're role in the group will be the keys to success.
I think what you'll see is the difference seven years of PvP experience alot fhe DAoC players have vs. the average of 1 to 2 years of PvP experience a WoW player has. In the end, it doesn't matter about numbers, if we're talking one on one, I'm positive the WoW player will be a toasty brown critter.
I really want to see this game become a success, so I'm hoping alot of WoW player come over, and alot of Age of Conan, and alot of DAoC... well you get the idea.
My greatest worry is that we're going to also get alot of the 12 year olds coming over... I'm so tired of Chuck Norris jokes and 70th level Warlocks running through the barrens ganking lowbies.
Well... here's to a bright future for the game.
Zenren
If you're reading this, you probably need to get some sun.
Sorry if it's slightly off-topic . But what the hell is wrong with the WOW fanboi? ( greymann) . I see you bash war CONSTANTLY. Yet Blizzard throw you a few daily "pvp" quest and 1 map of RvR-lite . You then proceed to worship Blizzard for all that sweet goodness.
The amount of "World-PvP" that Wotlk will be adding is less than one Tier1 WAR map. Also following WoW gameplan , I fully expect the zone to be deserted when players have grinded it and got the gear/title/whatever from it.
As of PvP skils , I expect the older wow players that pvp'd pre-tbc to be on par with DAOC players. The FoTm Arena teams , not so much. (imo)
Granted all this is academic, I'll toss some more on the fire:
I am a DAOC player. I don't like WoW. I have played WoW and pvp'd in WoW.
That said, I believe the generalizations about WoW pvpers are grossly misguided. My predominant experience in WoW pvp was with PUGs, however, I did get into a few groups that were generally set up like DAOC 8 mans. They were well organized, coordinated using TS or vent, called targets and had standard operating procedures for the different BGs and events. I found that there actually is an extremely large community of dedicated groups in WoW, just like in DAOC. Based on my experience in the two games, I expect these dedicated WoW teams to move over to WAR just like the DAOC 8mans. The advantage is then going to go to the WoW teams as they will exist in much greater numbers. I'm not talking zerg numbers, I am talking the number of dedicated pvp guild groups from WoW vs the groups coming over from DAOC.
Dedicated WoW pvp groups / guilds have equivalent capability to learn classes and rolls, learn SOPs, and coordinate just as easily as the dedicated DAOC 8mans. In the end, former DAOC 8mans will be a small portion of the pvp community and there just is no way they will "dominate." And lets not forget the people from Guild Wars and Lineage 2 either. They also have dedicated guilds / teams that will come over, making the small pool of DAOC players become smaller.
new daily open world PvP quests - introduced patch 2.4.(except honour also 11 Gold per completed quest). <...>If you want to discuss a game - know of what you are talking about <...>Play a PvP server. <...>Non instanced Open world PvP in WotLK (lake Wintergrasp) will have lots of reward - mostly on par with arena and BG's. PvP will be on even on PVE servers. <...>And don't say BG are not popular these days, so see you there
Well, only most of this is wrong where everything else is still wrong. LoL I can't believe you seriously posted this as though it was a substantial rebuttal.
11g daily quests were BS when I was playing months ago, I imagine they are worthless today. I can tell you right now, without having logged into the game in months, that NOBODY BOTHERS with them because it is such a hassle over squat.
I also caught the "mostly on par with arena and BGs". Again I laugh, because that is a story we have all seen before. "Mostly on par", at release, isn't going to cut it. Oh and, I dare say that BGs aren't popular. I dare. They are an ends to a means right now and that =/= popularity.
Just for the record, the event I talked about earlier was done on Eonar, a PvE server. Play on PvP you say? Dark Iron for 2+years. I have a pretty good idea of what I am talking about, while you don't seem to have any realistic view of it.
Face it: Blizzard nuked one of the best experiences WoW had to offer, they killed it, burned it to the ground, dust in the wind, while WAR has moved in. We will see how WAR does, but it won't take much to one up WoW.
___________________ Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
You know, I'm a huge DAoC fan, and a big WoW "dis-liker", but I'm extremely surprised to see how little Guild Wars was mentioned in this thread.
Nobody has seen almost 100% strategy (no gear) and epic hard difficulty PvP unless they played Guild Wars in it's early days. It's hard to explain, but I was in an extremely coordinated and excellent guild in the GW early days, and we got absolutely rocked by Warsaw (top Korean team, beat the GW devs) in an 8v8 with the exact same gear.
You would have to experience "high level" PvP in Guild Wars to completely understand, but I don't think there were many people who got to experience it.
That being said, DAoC gamers and WoW gamers will both be new to the game. And while DAoC PvP was much more difficult, they will probably both be at the same level considering I feel that WAR leans much more towards WoW PvP than DAoC's (I've played it). Even if Warsaw played WAR, they would still be at the same level because the game has gear and "builds".
Guild Wars was the only MMO with absolute pure skill PvP. In the old days, there were no "cheap team builds" or better gear. Only pure 100% skill.
Comments
WoW has an advantage though, sheer massive numbers....INCOMING ZERG.
o no i remember when it used to be like that iv been playing WoW since OB and still do..... but i have to admit WoW slacks alot in PvP and its turning more and more into a gear based game every major patch. In DAoC u could have crappier gear than your opponent and still drop him/her with ease if u knew how to play ur character well. The only thing i really like about WoW's PvP over DAoC is that u cant auto follow ur opponent because imo that takes some of the skill out of it when all u have to do is hit buttons.(for the most part but not always) But i do miss rvr alot i mean u cant not miss taking control of a center keep (my favorite) and defending it from 2 other factions with different classes and skill sets than ur own it adds a whole new style, feel and challenge when u dont know exactly what to expect from ur opponent.
new daily open world PvP quests - introduced patch 2.4.(except honour also 11 Gold per completed quest).
If you want to discuss a game - know of what you are talking about
Play a PvP server.
------
Non instanced Open world PvP in WotLK (lake Wintergrasp) will have lots of reward - mostly on par with arena and BG's. PvP will be on even on PVE servers.
And don't say BG are not popular these days, so see you there
The best pvp player will be those who spend the most time on it. Basically it doesnt matter how good you are just how long you spend on it and some people have longer days than 24 hours im sure.
I completely disagree. Ive seen better teamwork and target calling in shadowbane than I ever saw in WoW.
Remember WoW is not a pvp centric game, Shadowbane is, you log on to shadowbane, you do so for one reason, to pvp, WoW, not so much.
Itll be guilds that move together from a game as a whole, who have experience fighting together in other games, who have a polished game plan, and solid teamwork built on good communication.
Kinda like when my guild went to AoC as a whole and dominated Bloodspire and build one of the first keeps on the server. It was all about being a cohesive unit far before the game was released.
Personally Im not concerned with WoW players at all, theyll be one ones hung up on trying to find ways to exploit the system while the better guilds from other games are busy getting things done.
new daily open world PvP quests - introduced patch 2.4.(except honour also 11 Gold per completed quest).
If you want to discuss a game - know of what you are talking about
Play a PvP server.
------
Non instanced Open world PvP in WotLK (lake Wintergrasp) will have lots of reward - mostly on par with arena and BG's. PvP will be on even on PVE servers.
And don't say BG are not popular these days, so see you there
WOW PVP sucks. Its content lacking and all instanced.
WOTLK will just be the same item centric crap again. Grind for the items then leave. If the gear is on par with BG/arena then why not just get the gear from there?
1 PvP zone isn't gonna help the disaster that is wow's instanced gear-centric PvP.
Anyways, why did you make a new account vick?
what you guys are missing is WAR is the merging of wow and DAOC. So it would be completly different either but have aspects of both.
Thats not the point, the guilds that go to WAR who have been pvping together for years will dominate this game. Thats how it is in most new releases Ive seen.
That is with any game. Its the player that has the skill not the game they play.
Skill levels required are debatable betwen WOW and DAOC but with WAR a new playing field is set so we have to wait and see.
My guild in particular has made the transition from game to game, and that will play into it to. Who ever is at the top of the learning curve will be there because theyre familiar with the process behind transitioning into a new game as a guild.
im just interested to see how my fellow EvE fleet commanders stack up.
Exactly. This is what depresses me about level 70 WoW PvP, and what I HOPE will be addressed in WAR...
Just because you have insane amounts of time to grind for gear does not mean you should always destroy everyone else you face, even if they are more skilled than you. The fact that gear overrides skill annoys me, but I guess that's what all MMOs are.
WoW PvPer s , AOC PvPers , DAoC PvPers ... your all going to get a rude awakening once us Elder testers get our hands on you .
/wave
I really hope most of the wow Trash stay away from this game.
I don't think it matters who > who. In a few weeks everyone will adapt and we will all be formidable competition. I for one am very glad that there are enough folks from WoW coming over to allow this argument to be created. The more the merrier! See you folks in WAR
WoW pvpers are itching for this game. DAOC players are itching for this game. They both are going to be good if they stick together however WoW is going to have sheer numbers, literally by the thousands more per server, so they *will* dominate. It is merely part of the game's mechanic without the crowd control that DAOC players are used to.
A little rationale. DAOC players are used to a large percentage of their pvp being invested in dedicated guild groups doing 8v8 battles so they assume they have the advantage. However the pool DAOC has to draw from is minuscule compared to WoW. Yeah, WoW may have less percentage of dedicated Guild groups as a playerbase whole, however that percentage still provides a huge numerical advantage.
new daily open world PvP quests - introduced patch 2.4.(except honour also 11 Gold per completed quest).
If you want to discuss a game - know of what you are talking about
Play a PvP server.
------
Non instanced Open world PvP in WotLK (lake Wintergrasp) will have lots of reward - mostly on par with arena and BG's. PvP will be on even on PVE servers.
And don't say BG are not popular these days, so see you there
I used to play on a pvp server...it was like a huge gankfest. I never felt PvP was any good in WoW and even posted numerous times that pvpers need some love and attention cause we were the red-headed step children in WoW. Even now its still a joke. Everyone has multiple sets of gear based on what they feel like doing i.e raid gear, pvp gear, farm/grind gear. Also, based on what they are planning to do they can just respec on a daily basis since the cost of respec is so easy to make at lvl 70.
I hope pvpers wake up and smell the coffee...it took 4 years to come up with the siege content that was talked about even during CB? now all of a sudden with WAR being released the pvp content is finally ready...whatevers. you guys can have that garbage
As a WoW player, I've tried alot of other MMOs. I hope WAR to be something else. Why? Because as said before, I'm 19 years old. I started playing WoW when I was 16, and I had no idea about the genre "MMO". To me, it went from Starcraft to Diablo to World of Warcraft. (Blizzard bitch, I know)
Anyway, it's easy for people to say that people have this or that (dis)advantage, but all it comes to is tutoring these people in how you have to play to make your faction stand out. It doesn't work if you just say, "Hey, you're from WoW - I'm not grouping with you because you got no skills!" or when you want to apply to a guild, "State your previous MMO experiences". 50% will have played WoW no matter what, either they don't say it, or they don't want to admit, but if guilds will not accept members because of that reason, the game will die and let the industry be monopolized once again by Blizzard.
Now I hope that I will enjoy this game (although I hardly doubt it won't) but I'm holding my breath about what I'm going to see or experience. As stated before, I almost did PvE content, so I know how teamwork works in a way. We'll see how that works out.
here's how i imagine things will be at first...
you'll obviously have the order zerg vs. destruction zerg, but in that huge zerg or somewhere close to it will be that group of veteran daoc players calling targets, healing party members, guarding party members, twisting etc...
communication, knowing you're class, knowing your limitations, and knowing you're role in the group will be the keys to success.
If you think DAoC players arent a bunch of cry babies too, you got another thing coming.
When I said i had "time", i meant virtual time, i got no RL "time" for you.
I think what you'll see is the difference seven years of PvP experience alot fhe DAoC players have vs. the average of 1 to 2 years of PvP experience a WoW player has. In the end, it doesn't matter about numbers, if we're talking one on one, I'm positive the WoW player will be a toasty brown critter.
I really want to see this game become a success, so I'm hoping alot of WoW player come over, and alot of Age of Conan, and alot of DAoC... well you get the idea.
My greatest worry is that we're going to also get alot of the 12 year olds coming over... I'm so tired of Chuck Norris jokes and 70th level Warlocks running through the barrens ganking lowbies.
Well... here's to a bright future for the game.
Zenren
If you're reading this, you probably need to get some sun.
Sorry if it's slightly off-topic . But what the hell is wrong with the WOW fanboi? ( greymann) . I see you bash war CONSTANTLY. Yet Blizzard throw you a few daily "pvp" quest and 1 map of RvR-lite . You then proceed to worship Blizzard for all that sweet goodness.
The amount of "World-PvP" that Wotlk will be adding is less than one Tier1 WAR map. Also following WoW gameplan , I fully expect the zone to be deserted when players have grinded it and got the gear/title/whatever from it.
As of PvP skils , I expect the older wow players that pvp'd pre-tbc to be on par with DAOC players. The FoTm Arena teams , not so much. (imo)
http://revolutionwar.guildlaunch.com/
Granted all this is academic, I'll toss some more on the fire:
I am a DAOC player. I don't like WoW. I have played WoW and pvp'd in WoW.
That said, I believe the generalizations about WoW pvpers are grossly misguided. My predominant experience in WoW pvp was with PUGs, however, I did get into a few groups that were generally set up like DAOC 8 mans. They were well organized, coordinated using TS or vent, called targets and had standard operating procedures for the different BGs and events. I found that there actually is an extremely large community of dedicated groups in WoW, just like in DAOC. Based on my experience in the two games, I expect these dedicated WoW teams to move over to WAR just like the DAOC 8mans. The advantage is then going to go to the WoW teams as they will exist in much greater numbers. I'm not talking zerg numbers, I am talking the number of dedicated pvp guild groups from WoW vs the groups coming over from DAOC.
Dedicated WoW pvp groups / guilds have equivalent capability to learn classes and rolls, learn SOPs, and coordinate just as easily as the dedicated DAOC 8mans. In the end, former DAOC 8mans will be a small portion of the pvp community and there just is no way they will "dominate." And lets not forget the people from Guild Wars and Lineage 2 either. They also have dedicated guilds / teams that will come over, making the small pool of DAOC players become smaller.
Well, only most of this is wrong where everything else is still wrong. LoL I can't believe you seriously posted this as though it was a substantial rebuttal.
11g daily quests were BS when I was playing months ago, I imagine they are worthless today. I can tell you right now, without having logged into the game in months, that NOBODY BOTHERS with them because it is such a hassle over squat.
I also caught the "mostly on par with arena and BGs". Again I laugh, because that is a story we have all seen before. "Mostly on par", at release, isn't going to cut it. Oh and, I dare say that BGs aren't popular. I dare. They are an ends to a means right now and that =/= popularity.
Just for the record, the event I talked about earlier was done on Eonar, a PvE server. Play on PvP you say? Dark Iron for 2+years. I have a pretty good idea of what I am talking about, while you don't seem to have any realistic view of it.
Face it: Blizzard nuked one of the best experiences WoW had to offer, they killed it, burned it to the ground, dust in the wind, while WAR has moved in. We will see how WAR does, but it won't take much to one up WoW.
___________________
Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/12/13/
You know, I'm a huge DAoC fan, and a big WoW "dis-liker", but I'm extremely surprised to see how little Guild Wars was mentioned in this thread.
Nobody has seen almost 100% strategy (no gear) and epic hard difficulty PvP unless they played Guild Wars in it's early days. It's hard to explain, but I was in an extremely coordinated and excellent guild in the GW early days, and we got absolutely rocked by Warsaw (top Korean team, beat the GW devs) in an 8v8 with the exact same gear.
You would have to experience "high level" PvP in Guild Wars to completely understand, but I don't think there were many people who got to experience it.
That being said, DAoC gamers and WoW gamers will both be new to the game. And while DAoC PvP was much more difficult, they will probably both be at the same level considering I feel that WAR leans much more towards WoW PvP than DAoC's (I've played it). Even if Warsaw played WAR, they would still be at the same level because the game has gear and "builds".
Guild Wars was the only MMO with absolute pure skill PvP. In the old days, there were no "cheap team builds" or better gear. Only pure 100% skill.