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WOTLK (beta) - My first day in a new land
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Cool! Vicksburg made a new account.
Who's Vicksburg ?
Would love too but the last round of beta invites has crushed the 1 and only EU server its unplayabled in the evenings (when I can play), remember 5 min loot lag from the old days? its back =D . Blizzard are doing something about it.. so they say.
Please enlighten me by describing these methods of obtaining gear that do not involve grinding.
Please enlighten me by describing these methods of obtaining gear that do not involve grinding.
If you want to get technical, you could say that grind is present in any game ever made, but the point he is trying to make is that grind in todays WoW is practicly nonexistant compared to the old WoW, 60 WoW, the WoW most bashers use to prove their point.
Grind is involved in every game ever made, however there are definitely some that are more obvious than others.
BC endgame was grind V grind V grind, albeit a definite improvement over just one type of grind that required a lot of commitment prior to BCs release.
Doing the same daily quests over and over again is what I call an "obvious grind". The most obvious of the three, closely followed by Arena which you are now forced to do even if you want BG gear.
"Everyone who plays WOW these days knows that every 6 months gear gets updated (through new dungeons, BG's, Arena seasons, and craftin professions).
So the Wow players now are used to get new gear and they mostly LOVE it (looking at the amount of players that come back every time a new season opens). It keeps the game fresh and every new player can "catch up" rather easely."
.... LoL! Read that last part again and try to spot the obvious problem. WoW is not friendly to new players at all. Especially ones that don't have friends playing to help them out.
___________________
Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/12/13/
Grind is involved in every game ever made, however there are definitely some that are more obvious than others.
BC endgame was grind V grind V grind, albeit a definite improvement over just one type of grind that required a lot of commitment prior to BCs release.
Doing the same daily quests over and over again is what I call an "obvious grind". The most obvious of the three, closely followed by Arena which you are now forced to do even if you want BG gear.
"Everyone who plays WOW these days knows that every 6 months gear gets updated (through new dungeons, BG's, Arena seasons, and craftin professions).
So the Wow players now are used to get new gear and they mostly LOVE it (looking at the amount of players that come back every time a new season opens). It keeps the game fresh and every new player can "catch up" rather easely."
.... LoL! Read that last part again and try to spot the obvious problem. WoW is not friendly to new players at all. Especially ones that don't have friends playing to help them out.
I really don't know what you mean.
Every 6 months gear gets updated and every new character at level 70 can have access to the very same gear as a character being played for 3 years.
Why is that not awfully friendly to new players ?
The only ones complaining were the old Wow raiders in pre TBC, because they had worked SOO hard. These days different ways to obtain gear opens up many ways.
And the newly formed level 70 has exaclty the same chance now as the old one, because they begin directly at assembling the latest gear updates.
This technique was introduced in TBC and is very successfull. Every time the new gear is launched (new season, new raid) it shows on the numbers of playings.
it also means that WotLK is far more awaited than TBC, because everyone knows this technique now.
The same technique is also used in the crafting btw. Crafted gear is also adapted every 6 months. So it stays interesting on the highest levels, because not everyone reaches the highest dungeons.
That's true for PVE gear where the grind is still very linear and you need to take it step by step, but when it comes to PVP, you can jump right in the best threads, it's harder if you start with greens but even if you only get the top BG gear you're good for PVP, not as good as the best arena gear but if you have any PVP skill you can go medieval on someones ass.
Cool! Vicksburg made a new account.
Who's Vicksburg ?
rofl, owned !!!
hebeventijd aka vicksburg, aka zorndorf, your fanboism is so unique that its spotted by the first 2 posts you make on any new account. I just wonder why you change you name regularly as it doesnt matter really
rofl, owned !!!
hebeventijd aka vicksburg, aka zorndorf, your fanboism is so unique that its spotted by the first 2 posts you make on any new account. I just wonder why you change you name regularly as it doesnt matter really
???Listen I don't know any of those guys???
And if you would mind stepping aside a little to make place for some real discussions.
BTW : Does it hurt Wow has 11 million subs
)) Because 10.999.999 can join in the discussion 
)))
There is a name for this desease thinking of being followed by person(s).
Schizo... something
)))
Then why did vicksburg just disappesr the moment you appeared ???
And can you fanbois please finally stop with that retarded 11mil. subs argument? You cant seriously consider subs in other continents beside EU/US relevant in a discussion if a game is good or bad. As we dont argue a korean game is great for the EU/US market just cause it has millions subs in Korea and other Asian markets.
Probably their computer specs are that low the only game they can play decently is wow....I really cant cant care less
Just use the EU/US sub numbers....they are high enough
Cool! Vicksburg made a new account.
Ok, I gotta admit, that was funny.
No offense Vick, I love you man.
I am working my way down the replies.
Here is the problem:
The new higher tier of gear every 6 months only benefits those that got to the endgame first and played fairly heavily and consistently. This means that every six months new players are farther and farther behind the main group of people and have to deal with tedious game play just in an attempt to catch up.
I know that when I was a new 70, the BGs were pretty much impossible and it is one of the reasons why I quit the game never to look back. Game after game of not being able to do anything significant for the team, if I was able to do anything at all, is really discouraging. Yeah, I was appropriately geared for being a fresh 70 and was specced for PvP.
Essentially they add gear tiers in lieu of character levels, making the current matchmaking system defunct.
I was really playing against lvl 75-78 players.
Don't you even get me started about crafting.
___________________
Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/12/13/
Here is the problem:
The new higher tier of gear every 6 months only benefits those that got to the endgame first and played fairly heavily and consistently. This means that every six months new players are farther and farther behind the main group of people and have to deal with tedious game play just in an attempt to catch up.
I know that when I was a new 70, the BGs were pretty much impossible and it is one of the reasons why I quit the game never to look back. Game after game of not being able to do anything significant for the team, if I was able to do anything at all, is really discouraging. Yeah, I was appropriately geared for being a fresh 70 and was specced for PvP.
Essentially they add gear tiers in lieu of character levels, making the current matchmaking system defunct.
I was really playing against lvl 75-78 players.
Don't you even get me started about crafting.
No, this is absolutely wrong. You obviously do not play WoW because this is simply not how it works, this is not meant as an insult or a slight against your person, but you are presuming a lot - if you look at what is actually happening in the game (and this is how I know you don't play it), you will know what you wrote is wrong.
Why?
New players are not further away from the higher tier of gear because the previous tier of gear, previously only available to those fighting in the arena, becomes available on the Battleground vendors, and the previous BG vendor armor is upgraded. For about 10k honour you can get a piece of Merciless Gladiator gear. It's now possible for a new player to get a set of 350+ resilience from just battleground gear. This will allow them to compete competitively in the arena for the better gear, or to simply do better in the battlegrounds.
They have introduced starter PvP gear to the faction vendors, if you have enough reputation you can earn yourself some decent starter pieces of PvP gear.
Also, when new PvE gear is introduced via harder raids, better gear becomes available from Vendors with badges. They introduced more ways of getting badges. Simply running a few heroics, or a couple of Karazhan raids will allow newer players to fill in gaps with their raiding gear very easily.
I know I've missed a lot out, but there really isn't a widening gap between new and the oldest players. Blizzard know exactly what they're doing in this area. There is still a path of progression, and players will have to work hard to get into a decent guild that is BT or Sunwell capable. However, that path of progression isn't 5 times longer than it was in the original WoW.
Blizzard know that the game has to be 'refreshed' every so often, so that it will always appeal to new players, who won't be worried about never having the chance to be among the top players in the game. It's a main reason why WoW has remained popular for so long, and remains on the sales charts to this day.
I know the gear I've worked hard for will become obselete in the new expansion. But I didn't play WoW all these months to get virtual clothes and weapons - I can do that in any dozens of MMORPGs. I play WoW because me and my friends enjoy it. The appeal of WoW has never been about the gear, it's been about how you attain that gear.
Considering WOTLK as 'obseleting' your gear is taking an extremely pessimistic view of things. I prefer to see it as a chance to play more WoW. If the idea of your gear becoming obselete offends people, how the hell did they ever get over the fact the green gear they earned was replaced by blues, and then epics, and then better epics? It's a ridiculous sentiment if you think about it. Play for fun and be happy!
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Here is the problem:
The new higher tier of gear every 6 months only benefits those that got to the endgame first and played fairly heavily and consistently. This means that every six months new players are farther and farther behind the main group of people and have to deal with tedious game play just in an attempt to catch up.
I know that when I was a new 70, the BGs were pretty much impossible and it is one of the reasons why I quit the game never to look back. Game after game of not being able to do anything significant for the team, if I was able to do anything at all, is really discouraging. Yeah, I was appropriately geared for being a fresh 70 and was specced for PvP.
Essentially they add gear tiers in lieu of character levels, making the current matchmaking system defunct.
I was really playing against lvl 75-78 players.
Don't you even get me started about crafting.
No, this is absolutely wrong. You obviously do not play WoW because this is simply not how it works, this is not meant as an insult or a slight against your person, but you are presuming a lot - if you look at what is actually happening in the game (and this is how I know you don't play it), you will know what you wrote is wrong.
Why?
New players are not further away from the higher tier of gear because the previous tier of gear, previously only available to those fighting in the arena, becomes available on the Battleground vendors, and the previous BG vendor armor is upgraded. For about 10k honour you can get a piece of Merciless Gladiator gear. It's now possible for a new player to get a set of 350+ resilience from just battleground gear. This will allow them to compete competitively in the arena for the better gear, or to simply do better in the battlegrounds.
They have introduced starter PvP gear to the faction vendors, if you have enough reputation you can earn yourself some decent starter pieces of PvP gear.
Also, when new PvE gear is introduced via harder raids, better gear becomes available from Vendors with badges. They introduced more ways of getting badges. Simply running a few heroics, or a couple of Karazhan raids will allow newer players to fill in gaps with their raiding gear very easily.
I know I've missed a lot out, but there really isn't a widening gap between new and the oldest players. Blizzard know exactly what they're doing in this area. There is still a path of progression, and players will have to work hard to get into a decent guild that is BT or Sunwell capable. However, that path of progression isn't 5 times longer than it was in the original WoW.
Blizzard know that the game has to be 'refreshed' every so often, so that it will always appeal to new players, who won't be worried about never having the chance to be among the top players in the game. It's a main reason why WoW has remained popular for so long, and remains on the sales charts to this day.
QFT
IDK what Wrath beta you're playing, but the official has 2 servers, Lich King and Northrend, One PvP server, one PvE server. Unless that is, they changed everything drastically within the past week. I've been too busy to play. Then again, you may not be in closed beta, but a seperate beta for those opt-ins, IDK. Patching a 500mb patch atm so I cannot say if theres been a big change or what. I hope not, I had a DK on both servers at 72 T_T.
O_o...
Okay, patch is finished. There is still two servers, and they are still named Lich King and Northrend. However, they changed Lich King to a normal server wtf T_T. I was having fun on my DK lol.
So, uh, Coldra? wtf?
EU beta.. I guess your in the US beta
Those graphics certainly show the age of the game this content is being added to.
Here is the problem:
The new higher tier of gear every 6 months only benefits those that got to the endgame first and played fairly heavily and consistently. This means that every six months new players are farther and farther behind the main group of people and have to deal with tedious game play just in an attempt to catch up.
I know that when I was a new 70, the BGs were pretty much impossible and it is one of the reasons why I quit the game never to look back. Game after game of not being able to do anything significant for the team, if I was able to do anything at all, is really discouraging. Yeah, I was appropriately geared for being a fresh 70 and was specced for PvP.
Essentially they add gear tiers in lieu of character levels, making the current matchmaking system defunct.
I was really playing against lvl 75-78 players.
Don't you even get me started about crafting.
No, this is absolutely wrong. You obviously do not play WoW because this is simply not how it works, this is not meant as an insult or a slight against your person, but you are presuming a lot - if you look at what is actually happening in the game (and this is how I know you don't play it), you will know what you wrote is wrong.
Why?
New players are not further away from the higher tier of gear because the previous tier of gear, previously only available to those fighting in the arena, becomes available on the Battleground vendors, and the previous BG vendor armor is upgraded. For about 10k honour you can get a piece of Merciless Gladiator gear. It's now possible for a new player to get a set of 350+ resilience from just battleground gear. This will allow them to compete competitively in the arena for the better gear, or to simply do better in the battlegrounds.
They have introduced starter PvP gear to the faction vendors, if you have enough reputation you can earn yourself some decent starter pieces of PvP gear.
Also, when new PvE gear is introduced via harder raids, better gear becomes available from Vendors with badges. They introduced more ways of getting badges. Simply running a few heroics, or a couple of Karazhan raids will allow newer players to fill in gaps with their raiding gear very easily.
I know I've missed a lot out, but there really isn't a widening gap between new and the oldest players. Blizzard know exactly what they're doing in this area. There is still a path of progression, and players will have to work hard to get into a decent guild that is BT or Sunwell capable. However, that path of progression isn't 5 times longer than it was in the original WoW.
Blizzard know that the game has to be 'refreshed' every so often, so that it will always appeal to new players, who won't be worried about never having the chance to be among the top players in the game. It's a main reason why WoW has remained popular for so long, and remains on the sales charts to this day.
I know the gear I've worked hard for will become obselete in the new expansion. But I didn't play WoW all these months to get virtual clothes and weapons - I can do that in any dozens of MMORPGs. I play WoW because me and my friends enjoy it. The appeal of WoW has never been about the gear, it's been about how you attain that gear.
Considering WOTLK as 'obseleting' your gear is taking an extremely pessimistic view of things. I prefer to see it as a chance to play more WoW. If the idea of your gear becoming obselete offends people, how the hell did they ever get over the fact the green gear they earned was replaced by blues, and then epics, and then better epics? It's a ridiculous sentiment if you think about it. Play for fun and be happy!
Recant.
It shows you and I are IN the game right now, while the guys thinking that gear updates are only for the oldest players clearly are NOT.
You know this argument of gear (and reset) was THE most heard of complaint when TBC launched. Back then Wow was all raiding and those guys didn't appreciate it when their "hard earned gear" was replaced in TBC.
The Wow haters try now this same old argument and they only make a fool of themselves.
Like I said earlier: today 99% of the people playing Wow are used to updates on gear for EVERY (new or old) lvl 70 player about every 6 months ( from BG's, Arena, new raids and certainly crafted gear).
So Blizzard takes the game every 6 months to a new motivation be it through new raid content or a new PvP competition with titles(!) and crafting professions follow these logical steps.
A new level 70 can indeed immeadiatly have access to Merciless now (end Arena season 2 gear).
The difference between this "new player lvl 70" in Merciless is eaxctly 3.5% in stats compared to the highest Arena gear possible of season 4 (Brutal).
So this guy who says he doesn't have a chance in BG's talks about a 3% difference (because of course NOT all have the latest Arena gear). Skill is far more important than that 3% gear difference.
And like you said: with Merciless BG gear you can certainly be competitve in present day Arena.
The best part of your post: Wow players play to have fun, and they are further motivated by getting rewards. But I know very few people who play just for gear. No way.
"A new level 70 can indeed immeadiatly have access to Merciless now (end Arena season 2 gear)."
That's not exactly truthful.
A new level 70 cannot immediately go and pick up a Merciless set upon dinging 70.
They would have to do several days /played of honor grind in battlegrounds for points to buy the gear with.
It would take them days or probably weeks to get enough points for a full set.
Even the reputation set, which is terrible, would require you do some dungeon grinding for the reputation to have access to it.
"The new higher tier of gear every 6 months only benefits those that got to the endgame first and played fairly heavily and consistently. This means that every six months new players are farther and farther behind the main group of people and have to deal with tedious game play just in an attempt to catch up."
He is correct. If your new or behind the norm in gear you can collect badges of justice in order get gear equivalent to what high end raiders are wearing.
This involves running the same dungeons endlessly in order to get badges. Unless you start raiding you will be doing the same dungeons constantly in order maintain a respectable level of gear. Badges of justice are in fact the biggest thinly veiled grind ever invented by Blizzard.
Essentially badges are exactly the same as reputation in old wow except it's an item in your bag rather than a number on your character sheet.
They could make new content but why bother when you can make people do the old content endlessly simply by adding a badge drop to the bosses and a new item vendor in the city every few months?
Hats off to Blizzard for taking grinding to new previously unknown heights.
Well said. I remember when our guild wrecked Naxx for months before TBC and we all had full sets and enough KT loot to make us happy. Most of my gear was still used at 70, and was slowly replaced with the later stuff in instances.
I am just working on my tradeskills for now and other tasks that do not involve upping my equipment - for I feel it would be a waste of time.
Remember~ have fun!
Well you're not being very truthful either. While you're correct that you would have to get around 450 badges I think it is to completely fill a full set of gear, you can easily get about 25 to 30 badges a week running nothing but Kara and a couple dailies which takes what, about 6 hours? You can do that in 1 night very easily, you don't have to do it endlessly. So that means you have 6 other nights to do whatever you damn well please and you'll still have a full set of gear in a couple months time. That's also assuming you need a full set, If you only need a few pieces here and there, it will take much less time to get. Combine a weekly Kara run with a night of BG's every week and mix and match the gear to get a complete set in about 1/2 the time.
This is not true either. You can get the reputation without doing any dungeon grinding whatsoever. You will probably have to go thru a couple dungeons once, but just once. I wouldn't exactly call that grinding. The rep in Hellfire and Zangarmarsh can be achieved without any instances whatsoever, just simply doing the non-instance quests in those areas will get you to honored. I've done in like 3 times now.
Well you're not being very truthful either. While you're correct that you would have to get around 450 badges I think it is to completely fill a full set of gear, you can easily get about 25 to 30 badges a week running nothing but Kara and a couple dailies which takes what, about 6 hours? You can do that in 1 night very easily, you don't have to do it endlessly. So that means you have 6 other nights to do whatever you damn well please and you'll still have a full set of gear in a couple months time. That's also assuming you need a full set, If you only need a few pieces here and there, it will take much less time to get. Combine a weekly Kara run with a night of BG's every week and mix and match the gear to get a complete set in about 1/2 the time.
Blodpls.... Badges are a fair system to reward every one who runs the dungeon, before the badge system if you ran the dungeon and nothing dropped for you then that was that, now even if no loot drops that you need you still earn a handful of badges that you spend toward gear... the badge system rewards every one for running the dungeon. Its by no means a grind its the opposite it servers to lower the grind.