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Should planets be untakable?
Stump
Member Posts: 16
Let's open up a little debate on the current state o' balance when it comes t'planetary defenses.
Should planets be untakable?
No
Let's take fer grant'd that there be no defense setup that cannot be overcome given the knowhow, resources, time, etc, etc. Be that right? Well, given the immense difficulty involv'd in takin' some heavy defended planets... ol' Stump'll step out on'a limb 'n claim that be just right. Iff'n ye take the time t'build up a planet, aye, ye should b'able t'be reas'nbly assure'd that ye can keep her iff'n ye take the time t'ensure she be properly defended. But, on the converse, ol' Stump thinks it'd be wrong iff'n it were impossible t'take a planet. The balance should be that it should require as large an effort t'take a planet as is involved in buildin' it, or at least be comparable. Presently, ol' Stump believes that there is a pretty decent balance in that regard... with a few exceptions o' course. Such as the escape pod takin' a colony thing... although ol' Stump believes that this t'aint as big o' problem as it was, ye just have'ta adjust yer defenses slightly t'prevent the chance. The balance is very important, as it should be equally fair fer those who choose to be builders, 'n those who choose to be stealers... 'n all those in between. If planetary defense be too weak, ye'll lose builders... too strong ye'll lose stealers, 'n havin' both gives the game an interestin' diversity.
Comments
Not much debating from me Stump, I completely agree.
But what's the deal with your oddly bucolic style of typing?
He's roleplaying:) A sight for sore eyes indeed:)
While I agree that colony defense is better than it was, it's not there yet. It can take HOURS to cart all those defenses to a colony...And many millions of credits. Once the initial defenses are down those turrets can be taken down in a matter of minuets.
My complaint stems from what I am capable of doing, not what your average player is capable of doing. Useing no hacks and just being safe I can take over any colony in about an hour...A far cry from what it took to build that colony up. I think that defense should be buffed some more until it requires a good group of people to take down a colony, not just one guy with some time on his hands.
Ye and ol' Stump haven't play'd b'fore, least t'ol' Stump's recollection. So please fergive ol' Stump fer takin' that statement with a healthy bit o' scepticism. Ol' Stump'll assume that ye still be talkin' 'bout the average player, 'n iff'n that be the case, then ol' Stump won't disagree. Ol' Stump believes that the devs have achieved a level of balance that be generly miles ahead o' the player base, 'n that the average player has a poor understandin' o' the mechanics o' the game. Aye, there be plenty o' n00bs out there who'll scream "WAAAAH! I had 50 turrets and a Solar Cannon, how did I lose that planet?!?", but seasoned planet stealers know that there be few defense setups in which 50 turrets and a Solar Cannon will be enough t'keep out a vigilant invader. Correct ol' Stump iff'n ye have a diff'rent number, but ol' Stump believes 140 is the maximum Turrets/Mines ye can have on a planet. Now while some planet maps're more defensable than others, ol' Stump t'would find it durned rare t'be able t'take out a maximum defense planet in an hour. But who defends their planets that much? Well, not many... but that's b'cause, again, most people don't understand what they be doin'.
Ok, as an example, a completely maxxed out Arctic at Unity and with Advanced Architecture will put out 1000 XP per hour (1500 in Prison for as long as your Unity holds out). That be 24000XP per day. Say ye have two of these, iff'n ye just keep 'em fer four days after they be maxxed out, ye have just shy of 200000 XP. On most servers ol' Stump has played on, that t'would almost always assure ye of a top ten finish... with just two planets, for just four days after they're fully developed. So, that be a powerful thing, 'n ye should defend it t'the fullest. A maxxed out Volcanic will churn out 50+ Turrets per day... ye see what ol' Stump be drivin' at? A relatively small amout o' well developed planets can support each other. Even a casual player can develop such a small amount of planets in a reasonable timeframe, 'n subsequently out perform hardcore players who have a lesser understandin' o' the game.
Some improvements t'planetary defense that ol' Stump has noticed in his time:
Use t'be ye could place a Beacon on an enemy planet, n' that would serve as a shield 'gainst the Solar Cannon 'n to a lesser extent turrets. T'was an unfair advantage fer an invader... they fixed it.
They've recently made it so that resourses from killed Aliens on a planet no longer block Solar Cannon fire. This one, combined with the last one, pretty much makes Vulture usage in planet invasions impossible when a Solar Cannon be present. A good thing.
Used t'be that when ye entered a planet, ye entered with full energy. This allowed ye to fire off a few shots and zoom back out the door, taking little or no damage from the door defenses. It would take a while, but eventually you could blast a hole thru the door defenses allowing you to continue onward. Now when ye spawn on a planet, yer energy level starts at zero, and even with three Superconductors it's much much harder to get off some shots and get out unscathed. This, in ol' Stumps opinion makes planets that allow turrets on all sides of the blast off point the most difficult to capture, and the most dangerous, iff'n of course the thing be properly defended.
The 20% increase t'the distance from a mine that it'll explode. In ol' Stump's opinion this one be geared directly towards the Pod stealers. Now ye can't fly thru a row of mines even in a pod without blowin' em up, so a last line of Mines around the dome should be adequate fer keepin' out escape pods that make it that far.
The tweakin' of the effect of Military on turrets. Now as far as ol' Stump's concerned this still isn't workin' correctly. Even at 100% Military, seems to ol' Stump that it still only takes three Photon Torpedos t'kill a turret. It claims that increased population assigned to Military is supposed to both increase the health level o' the turrets, and how much they fire. Well, they do fire more when Military is assigned, but ol' Stump thinks that be it. Some space fer improvement here, but even still it's still better than it used t'be.
Ol' Stump feels that most planets with maxxed out defense can still fall, but they require a big effort.
Ol' Stump's current round just finish'd up, so ol' Stump went 'n did a little exper'mentin' around whilst in 'Time To Rebang' mode. Here be what ol' Stump discovered;
Fer planets with a heavily defended door, t'aint no good tryin' t'use a Galaxy Whale, with her Repel feature in hopes o' havin' a few shots off at the turrets a'fore ye get blewn t'smithereens. With two Superconductors (never did manage t'get a third that round), ye can't gen'rate 'nuff energy t'fire off a Repel 'fore ye gets blew'd up (this be usin' fer a test planet one with 'bout 80-100 turrets all 'round the blast off point). One point ol' Stump still hasn't figur'd out yet, is does Repelled turret fire damage turrets? That'll be the next test ol' Stump undertakes. But at a glance, due to the slow energy regeneration, ol' Stump don't feel the Galaxy Whale has any potential t'be advantageous.
Ol' Stump did a bunch o' tests tryin' t'steal planets with'a Pod. When yer ship gets blewed up, thus givin' ye the Pod... there be a span o' 'bout three seconds where ye can move, but sustain no damage. Then after that ye take normal damage. Ol' Stump can see that this would work 'n some instances, but providin' ye be adequately defended it be nothin' t'worry 'bout. Iff'n ye have most o' yer defenses at the door, and someone decideds t'blew themselves up and go on with a Pod, all ye need be a modest 'mount o' defenses round yer Dome and ye should be plenty safe. This still be a dirty tactic, 'n one that won't be undertook by any who have'a serious chance at winnin'... as ye lose 25% o' yer XP in gettin' blowed up. T'would be a better thing iff'n they made it so a Pod couldn't take over a Dome, but even still ol' Stump's mind is at ease now that he's play'd 'round with't abit.
Halkey - AKA Scarface
Halkey - AKA Scarface
That's some good detective work you been doing stump, thanks for sharing the results with us. I was quite sceptical about the Whale repel tactic because, although a bright idea, using the special on a ship usually takes between 1/3 and 1/2 of the available energy, and if you are using it constantly then there be no energy for weapons fire! A good quiestion about the cannon friendly fire tho.. Hmm.. I am not really sure.. I know that you can harm yourself by flying into your own Explosive Charge, so that suggests that weapons fire isn't 'tagged' with the owner, but during my invasion days if I be getting too close to a line of cannons by cause of poor navigation and they pummel me with fire which also hits the front line of cannons, they don't seem to die.
Oh and I find that your style of writing is very entertaining.
Stump, one of teh problems with trying to fortify a planet to such a needed degree as 140 turrets is that the warp fuel and time needed to do it are immense. If I have a colony on a planet 4 hops from a starbase, then that means that (for example) for every 8 turrets I want to put down on that planet, I need to travel 8 hops in total, so that means that whatever your ship's warpfuel consumption is times 8, plus two (one to land on the starbase, and one to land on the planet). Lets say your ship takes 7 warp fuel, that's 30 warp fuel for one placement run. Lets say you multiply by that so you can get 100 turrets set up (which is still not enough).
100 / 8 means 12.5 runs, meaning that to get 100 turrets on a planet, you will need to spend about
(12.5 * 7 ) + (12.5*2)
113 warp fuel to ALMOST fortify one colony. Keep in mind that you may or may not be able to pick up passengers and cargo on the way, meaning that your source of income, and the chances of you maxing out your colony's population with any speed, are iffy. That's just...
Waaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiittttttttttttttttt a second... come to think of resources expended to fortify a colony, that's not a whole lot... I'm actually starting to agree with Stump here... I need to go back to the drawing board methinks, I've been playing this game really messed up.
Someone please tell me if I'm wrong, but to me that math made absolutely no sense.
I calculated 58 warp fuel to make a single colonist/turret run from Sol to 4 hops away and back to Sol with a ship with 7 GPW. So to get 100 turrets that would be 58 times 13, because you can't do 12.5 runs, which would be 754 gallons of warp fuel. That's sort of a lot of fuel, but it may be worth it if you are dedicating yourself to that colony, and if you can trade along the way.
uhhh.... you're right Ipps, ignore me...
What can I say, it was late and all...
LOL, I know what you mean; I often screw up lots of homework late at night.
Planets should definately NOT be untakable. There are a few holes in the defense that need to be plugged (like wall-sliding past turrets) but past that all I really would like are an increase in the variety of turrets and mines. Particularly in the realm of short-range energy-draining defenses for a last-line defense to prevent people from simply rushing past the majority of other defenses.
As things currently stand, a good attacker can wall-slide past the entry-defenses and only need to engage enough of the bio-dome defense to clear one side and rush in. I don't really think defenses should be stronger, so much as harder to bypass.
you must be joking
taking planets and defending tham is one of the best things in the game, i say if you make planets untakeble you will ruin the game
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to boldly go where no man has gone before