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Nanci and the some environmentalist making no damn sense (again)
Enigma
Member UncommonPosts: 11,384
Ok....so Congress is pushing a bill to create windmill energy for the US so that our only need for oil will be for our vehicles and not for our vehicles, houses, businesses, factories, etc.
You think this is a good thing right? By converting 40% of our oil dependancy to wind energy we could elminate a lot of need for oil and a cleaner environment. This would be an awesome energy bill if Nanci and her friends came up with it but they didn't. During Nanci's vacation time, the Republicans and some Indepedents came up with an energy plan to convert our oil and coal refineries into wind power generators as well as solar power.
Since Nanci and her firends did not have anything to do with this bill (which is odd since it is a VERY PRO environmentalist bill) she is now against the bill and has gotten many environmentalists against the bill as well.
Her reason?
The power lines required to connect from the wind turbines to the energy plants would require us to cut some trees down. Seriously, wtf. We could lessen our foreign dependancy on oil as well as oil to our homes and businesses by converting them to wind energy. But no. Nanci wants to be part of the bill or she is against it. Absolutely amazing.
There are even some environmentalist who even argues (no lie) that if we were to ever develope engines that ran on water that would be bad too since we would be taking water away from the fish.
Absolutely amazing. Also, Nanci now supports some off shore drilling versus the wind turbines.....like that is cleaner than Wind power??
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Comments
This is why we need the Cobra Commander. The Commander would have "eliminated" the current house of Congress and made a new one!
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
too bad nooses(neese?) were made illegal here in NYC, cause i would like to string that prim&proper duo of hairy reed and nancy 'stretch' pelosi to a tree. and if thats not 'correct' than off a bridge. and, if thats still not 'correct' id like to kick dirt on their shins and scream profanitys of wtf.
well, i dont know the story but as usual, lines are drawn in the sand and the opposition picks a side, opposite.
iraq war same thing. they were for it. slowly they drained the will out of the american people by their own political agendas -opposition attitude. as support (americas puscification) weens, they whined and prolonged it; amped up anti-war while strenghtening the enemy.
thats funny for pelosi, shes a joke and so is the party steering her.
-I will subtlety invade your psyche-
well,looks like same old same old,no change, their making big money off those high ass gas prices.this why Mc cain looks so good at this moment,if he can hold true his big pork spending agenda that he is known for this will work.makes me wonder what kinda clowns votes for freaks like this.I really have no problem with changing the status-quo,you would think this would reach a bowling point at some point but it looks the EPA and the DEMS really don't give a rats ass what they do to the good old USA.
can't but a fence on the border because of bugs and rats.
cant get of oil or drill because it will take to long and fish and birds might get hurt.
cant put up wind turbines because we can see them from or mansion.
cant do this cant do that,DEM cant do nothing.
what have they spent more time on in this 'congress' this yr...nameing post offices
Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.
Its a lose-lose situation. You keep the neocons in there they just keep chuggin along with their big oil buddies. Pelosi is a result of people getting pissed off at Bush and the neocons. I knew they weren't going to do anything when they got in Congress. it amazes me how dependent we have become on oil.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Don't worry her stalling will only last until a Dem is in the White House, the more the people are hurt now the more votes for Obama, change we can beleive in you know.
what all should find interesting is this> http://www.dcexaminer.com/opinion/Editorial_Pelosi_and_Pickens_investment_partners.html
She is going to get in the ground floor of this investment. With an Big Oil man no less. Which will be facilitated by the Goverment no less or not depending on how the investors want the market manipulated.
She is such a POS it isn't even funny. People like that make me sick. Cutting trees down is her only argument, if she would realize that tree harvesting is done by cutting down trees and replanting them then she would know cutting down a few trees isn't hurting anything as long as they get replanted elsewhere. Where is the brains in the politicians sometimes, it amazes me how stupid our government has become in the last 10 years.
Who let you in the VIP section?
It's political posturing before the election. The Republicans put their proposal together with the intent of being able to bash the Democrats when they didn't support it. Expect a similar proposal to come shortly by the Dems that they [Democrats] will bash the Republicans on for not supporting. Both sides will use the bills as tools in the election and people will believe that [insert party] is inflexible regarding alternate energy sources, when it was all just a sham and both sides don't want to actually do anything.
Will this wench have a stroke or a heart attack already.
Amazing.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
Also, Nanci now supports some off shore drilling versus the wind turbines.....like that is cleaner than Wind power??
Huh?
The entire rational behind all of that hardly makes any sense. Seriously enigma, you need to stop posting this stuff. I lose sanity points each time I read crap like that.
I'm stationed in Germany and they have those stupid windmills all over the place. Our country is so far behind with this whole energy thing its not funny. My house I live in is partially solar powered (heat and hot water) I mean, everyones house here has some degree of solar power. Its silly. In fact the German government subsidised my cost. I'll send you some pictures if you want some time. I'll click a few this weekend.
In the US people are still skeptical about solar and wind energy and here its commonplace for decades now. My utilities are stupid cheap compared to wen I owned a house in Chicago 8 years ago. Go figure.
I live in Europe too, and in my country there are lots and lots of wind turbines. They are clean and all, and a good income for the towns that allow them to be build in their hills, but you pay a price: they have a big visual impact and many people are not happy about it. Haven't heard many complains about the trees though.
i have less faith in congress then i do in President Bush. I am tired of this Bullshit thats goin on down there.
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maybe theres some nasty bits of pork in there. or the dems don't have enough of it in the bill.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
exactly. Its for a cleaner environment and better alternative for energy but there is a sacrifice...the secenary. I am willing to take that sacrifice. Pelosi's reasoning of not wanting wind turbines is because of the trees that would be cut down to make way for the wiring from the turbine to the factory.
I swear, Congress must be trying to keep their "lowest approval score in US history" awefully hard.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
I thought you already had the worlds largest solar and wind powered generation facilities already?
I always drive past it on my way to Vegas.
The problem for me is not so much the effects on the landscape, but the effects on the economy.
Wind powr and solar power are not only very expensive but inefficient.
Solar power stations are only profitable on the equator and wind power is either government subsidised or not in operation at all.
Add to this that the power output is not reliable, and you still need to have a conventional back-up power station online and it really ceases to be anything like cost effective.
I don't think anyone is currently in the mood to have their energy bills raised again.
Wind and solar are not the answers to our energy problems. Like Baff said, they are both very expensive and inefficient.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
yeah but if a multi billionaire is offering hundreds of acres and 1/3 of his savings to start the project, its a better start than Obama's "let's not gice tax breaks to oil companies"
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Maybe I fail to see something here. All my research suggests otherwise. Can you tell me why this is inefficient? Our wind corridor has constant winds of around 10 or more MPH all the time, this energy from wind powered would convert that force into a ton of power and it is all renewable energy. The energy is almost constant with wind turbine if it is used in a windy area like where they proposed it.
Can you also explain how a SOLAR ARRAY GRID would be inefficient also. The research shows with that new system it would cut the power generated by conventional powerplant by 30%. It would always be in the sun and it moves also to the suns location using motors below the big panels. The size is over 10 football fields wide btw. Australia is already started this system. It would be in the mid west area along that corridor which has lots of areas nobody can see unless you walk or fly across so it wouldn't be an eye sore. Plus it would be located under a no fly zone area I believe.
Who let you in the VIP section?
I have to agree with Tyres here.
Also, Jay Leno has his own solar powered garage. That garage produces SO much energy, he actually sells it to the Electrical Company.
It can be done. It will take sacrifices and a Congress that is Bi Partisan but it can be done.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Maybe I fail to see something here. All my research suggests otherwise. Can you tell me why this is inefficient? Our wind corridor has constant winds of around 10 or more MPH all the time, this energy from wind powered would convert that force into a ton of power and it is all renewable energy. The energy is almost constant with wind turbine if it is used in a windy area like where they proposed it.
Can you also explain how a SOLAR ARRAY GRID would be inefficient also. The research shows with that new system it would cut the power generated by conventional powerplant by 30%. It would always be in the sun and it moves also to the suns location using motors below the big panels. The size is over 10 football fields wide btw. Australia is already started this system. It would be in the mid west area along that corridor which has lots of areas nobody can see unless you walk or fly across so it wouldn't be an eye sore. Plus it would be located under a no fly zone area I believe.
I wasn't even going to touch that one. Neither him nor Baff know WTF they are talking about.
I guess I can take down my solar panels on my roof that have been there for the last 6 years powering my house.
umm how much energy would be used to create the batteries that the solar panels use/charge whatever it's called?
i was under the impression ( meaning i thought this i dont KNOW if its real or not) that wind and solar lost all their beneits when the battery(whereever it is in the process) was taken into account, just because the MASSIVE amout of energy lost making it + the completely un-reuseable toxic waste they create when they have to be replaced.
For example ,
I read somewhere a while back ( no idea i think i was reading some old mag in a Dr office sorry so take it with grain of salt if i got confused about this part , its been a few months since i read this) , that the newest GM plant is energy neutral , but the draw back is that the waste products to keep it there are going to be worse than if they had just used normal steam/coal provided electricity , plus they will pile up as there is nothing to do with it but store it , breaking the by products down requires even more energy that they provided in their shelf-life.
That might have been an editorial too so i not sure its real , fact or even a truth. But it stuck with me and thats the impression ive had since then. That the techonolgy of wind/solar is viable with lots of work just not right at this minute.
i say fine lets do solar and wind , and anything else we can get our hands on , we wont really know until we try it.
edit to place things in correct order lol
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
Wind power is a good idea, if America could put up enough to make a difference then that would mean less oil would be needed not only from abroad but from American soil too. Also i have to say that wind turbines look quite striking in the Fens here in the UK. And it has been proven that such technology can provide enough energy to cut down on oil and gas dependancy by a large margin. Of course it takes a few but it CAN be done [10 billion i think for the UK].
The excuse that Nanci is giving sounds at best ill informed.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
Maybe I fail to see something here. All my research suggests otherwise. Can you tell me why this is inefficient? Our wind corridor has constant winds of around 10 or more MPH all the time, this energy from wind powered would convert that force into a ton of power and it is all renewable energy. The energy is almost constant with wind turbine if it is used in a windy area like where they proposed it.
Can you also explain how a SOLAR ARRAY GRID would be inefficient also. The research shows with that new system it would cut the power generated by conventional powerplant by 30%. It would always be in the sun and it moves also to the suns location using motors below the big panels. The size is over 10 football fields wide btw. Australia is already started this system. It would be in the mid west area along that corridor which has lots of areas nobody can see unless you walk or fly across so it wouldn't be an eye sore. Plus it would be located under a no fly zone area I believe.
If you invest the same money you plan to use to buy windmills and solar panels into a savings account, the return you will see on the money is larger than if you buy a windmill or solar panel and sell the electricity it produces.
It is costing you money to run, not saving it.
If you invest the same money in a more traditional power generation system (not nuclear), the electricity produced will make you a significant profit.
It is not that solar and wind power are incapable of producing electricity, it is that they are incapable of producing it cheapily.
Efficiancy.
Wind does not give a constant speed.
Sunlight is effected by cloudy days and daylight savings. In winter when fuel is in higher demand a solar power array produces less, and at night time, it produces none at all.
In order to compensate for the 30% fluctuation, a conventional powerplant must still be left running. Conventional power plants take time to start up and get going at full capacity, so if you want to avoid a shortfall, (powercuts), on cloudy days or when you are becalmed for 5 minutes, you must keep extra power stations online and generating anyway.
The 30% reduction to load on the national grid is not a guarenteable, reliable 30%. It fluctuates. So while it may lower the overall load on the powerplant by 30% you still can't switch that powerplant off. It's a false economy.
The 30% you are generating not only costs more to produce than if you generated it via conventional methods, it does not completely negate the need for a conventional generator to be running anyway. so instead of just paying the cheapest rate to produce that 30%, you are paying the most expensive rate and the cheapest rate for a substantial porportion of your energy production..
Rest assured the instant they can make solar power and wind power economically attractive to use, you won't be needing any government campaigns to aid it's adoption.
While we all hope that technological strides will make this day come soon, it is not here yet.
NB Mass production is often cited as a means to lower the cost of solar and wind power.If solar or wind power uses rare materials in it's construction, (such as Gold, Platinum and Paladium for example) this actually raises it's overall costs.
@ tax breaks for oil producers....
It is important to realise that they pay vast amounts of tax.
In my country domestically produced oil pays 200% tax by the time it hits the pump. Which means that however much money the oil companies turnover (not profit) our government recieves twice this.
This has two knock-on effects.
No.1 oil fields that would otherwise be profitable to exploit are not economically viable. There is less oil being pumped.
No.2 Instead of re-investing in local oil fields, oil companies look abroad for countries with a more favourable tax regime. Tax revenue is lost, domestic industry moves abroad creating local unemployment.
Tax breaks greatly reduce our dependance on foriegn oil imports. Our domestic reserves increase with every reduction in production cost (and also with every global increase in price).
I'd tend to agree with this. Again, pinch of salt, as it was about 10 years ago now, but when we had solar panels installed on our roof (did the water+heating), we were told by the installation guy to be 'under no false impression that this is good for the environment. Even the most efficient solar panels take more energy in their creation than they can produce in their first 25 years of operation under 100% perfect conditions.' Britain is certainly not perfect conditions, as this year's summer has proven.
Global warming - my arse! (Not starting a debate, just taking the piss).
As to the OP: ROFL @ Nanci taking another step toward proving just how fucking stupid she is. I can't help but wonder if there is ANYONE in the entire country that has her support. This falls somewhere between political posturing and the 'environmentalists' proving that they've got someone else's economic interests at heart too, if you get my meaning.
Bah another Fenlander.
Me too. (Hobein is another local).
The first girl I ever snogged was my sister. How about you?
I like Windmills, old and new.
On my horizon, the view from this room, there is a working 19th centrury windmill standing next to a giant BT telecoms tower. A modern windmill built next to that would hardly spoil my view, but would in fact improve it I think. Although more than one would likely upset me, as would the noise.
I like those offshore wind farms better.
Energy diversity aside, I think that the whole point of renewable energy is to save the enviroment. Nanci has a point. If you are damaging the enviroment to save the enviroment, it strikes me as an own goal.
We all want to live somewhere nice, if a giant powerplant in your backyard ruins your personal enviroment, no amount of hippies crying "save the enviroment" is going to impress you.
There are other aspects to enviromentalism than just carbon dioxide reduction, (although trees are well known for being the worlds greatest carbon dioxide sink).
Saving the enviroment starts at home, if you save your little patch of it, and I save mine, and everyone else saves theirs, we've got the whole world covered right there.
What I don't want is a complete moron who lives in the city trying to save my enviroment.