Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
RvR & PvP, the Point Is?
grimfall
Member UncommonPosts: 1,153
I am a little confused by the systems I am hearing described for WAR.
I understand you have PVE , with PVE levels and PVE gear.
Do PVE levels and gear have anyting to do with PVP?
If a player is lvl PVE 40 with the best PVE gear he can find, but PVP level 1, would he be equal to another player from the other side who is PVE1, PVP1 when it comes to PVP (or RVR)?
******************************************
Second issue. Realm points vs PVE
From WoW a lot of people complained that you could get good PVE gear and use that to dominate PVP. So they implemented PVP points and gear bought with those points.
This is what I don't understand. What's the difference between a player being at disadvantage in PVP between them being at disadvantage because they haven't 'ground' PVE content versus having 'ground' PVP content?
In either case you have players who play a lot with better gear than a player who is just starting PVP.
*****************************************
Third issue.
What's the point of the taking over the capital city in RVR PVP? What advantage does it give you? Does it give you a PVP advantage (the rich getting richer) or give you a PVE adnvatage (the reverse of the WoW complaint) or does it not do anything at all, in which case what is the point?
I am not trolling or hating I am just trying to have my understanding clearified before I decide if I get this game.
Comments
Honor, competition, teamwork, bragging rights, advancement of your character, and knowing that you are fighting, defeating, and besting a living thing and not some code.
What's 'advancement of your character 'mean?
Try reading up a little more. It definately doesn't mean "phat arena lewtz" if that is what you are asking.
ColdSun
Though you can choose to go to either end of the spectrum (all PvE or all PvP) the encouraged route in WAR is to do both. So, yes, PvE will have something to do with PvP. You have 40 levels, PvE and PvP. But you also have PvP ranks that go up to level 80 (do you start gaining them from level 1 or level 40? I thought they started at level 40, not too sure about this one.) It's an incentive to keep playing after you've hit max level.
In your second question do you mean that if you grind PvE gear, it's the same as grinding PvP gear? You'll still have better gear than new players? Well, you get experience from PvPing so there won't be any "twinks" like in WoW. This means that each level will only have a certain level of gear that can be the best, until of course level 40. Now, at that point, gear will make a difference...but the important thing to note is WAR is only about 35% gear dependant, unlike WoW which is about 90%.
Okay, question three. The point is mainly realm pride, but also great loot and the ability to run the three dungeons that are inside the enemy's capital city (for the PvErs - this is an example of how PvE and PvP are intertwined). It presents an opportunity for the best gear through the King fight, and it's just your ultimate goal...it's what the previous four Tiers lead up to.
You wouldn't let all your hard work go to waste just because you choose not to raid the capital, would you?
Seriously though, what is the point? With no death penalty, benefits, winning or losing loses meaning. Sure, if the game is done well the combat will be fun and there will be good times to be had, but how long do you think that will last?
What's the purpose of playing? What will drive you to log in once you reached max level and played for a few weeks/months?
Not being argumentative here, genuinely looking to see what the motivations will be.
-----
The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
The answer is something you've never experienced unless you've played DAoC for a while. It's something I genuinely hope (and believe) they've represented in WAR.
Let's just say that in WAR, it's not all about you. You won't want to do things only for yourself. There's something else working in the background that'll determine your actions, unless you are very selfish. But even then, you'll find out that working as a team - a realm - will do more for you than you could do for yourself.
Reknown abilities, rank gear, bonuses for holding certain territory, and most of all - bragging rights that the other side has been crushed. If you are used to the selfish reward system of WoW, where everyone is out for themselves and getting the next piece of phat lewt gear, you might not like WAR. This game is about teamwork and realm pride.
ColdSun
I cant speak to anything past tier 2 but early on the gear in PvE seems about equal to PvP gear. Point and case A green staff I found in PvE in tier1 was better than any tier1 PvP gear I could get. Also found a blue sword for DoK's in PvE that was better than any PvP gear in tier1. Once you hit level 10 realm rank6 you can go to a tier2 keep and get a major upgrade in gear. To get to rr6 though you looking at probably around 10 scenarios tops or an hour or two of good solid open world RvR.
If your purly playing PvE and have no intention of doing RvR thats fine. Your gear will look similar and be on par with RvR armor. If you RvR you gear is going to be on par with PvE PLUS you have the experiance of your skills vs. other players and not NPC's.
Yea ull get lvl 40 in a few weeks/months or whatever, but good luck gettting RR 80 in that time.. itll take you waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay longer than that
so you ur driven to get lv40 RR80, ull be playing WAR for much longer than a few months
Character advancement from RvR includes normal rank XP, renown rank XP, and gold. Also when your side owns keeps the best vendors for armor and weapons for your class becomes available. There are definite advantages to winning, and holding keeps.
Regular advancement has 40 ranks and can be raised in PVE, Public Quests, Scenarios, RvR, PvP, etc.
Renown or PVP advancement has 80 ranks and can be raised in Scenarios, RvR, and PvP. Capturing objectives and winning area has a much higher reward than just killing players, but it is all rewarded.
Regular rank levels raise stats, and let you purchase class skills. Renown rank let's you further customize your character with skills, bonuses, stats, etc.
It is hard to explain if you haven't played DaoC or WAR, but if you ever do I am sure you will understand.
Issue 1 PvE levels apply to PvP too...you can't go to a Tier 4 area and fight and expect to survive longer than a second if your not level 30 - 40. I'm guessing here but from what I've seen the LvL 40 PvE Dungeon gear is equivilant to the Realm Rank 40 gear. It should be enough for you to compete and quickly gain more ranks so that you can buy the higher Ranked gear (all gear is viable for PvE & PvP there's really not a major difference like in WoW). Renown Gear at high 41+ is going to be the best gear in the game next to dungeon gear. Not sure how much better it is but I expect it to be semi significant compared to Pve gear..just not so much so that you won't be able to compete since you'l be working in Teams / Groups and not as an individual those that try to fight on their own in a massive battle end up dead in WAR. I've competed just fine in the plain white noobie gear at lvl 1 against lvl 10s thats kinda how little gear matters to an extent. You won't have as huge of a statistical focus on gear like you do in WoW but it certaintly helps to have something worth fighting for.
Issue 2 I'm not sure you grasping the point here...in WAR PvP & PvE both matter...both activities garner you XP points so you gain levels. So Leveling is NOT a restricted PvE activity. Only PVP gains you Realm Points, realm points will NOT go towards Career Mastery & level progression. You gain a realm point and you can use it or savei t to buy Stats & Tactics (RvR only tactics). Your also thinking too Gear based..gear is incredibly easy to get I mean I had a full set of Greens and a couple of blues by level 8. Gaining Renown Rank allows players to buy specific types of Gear that is comparable if not better IMHO than PvE gear. But sets of PvE gear how ever are perfectly usuable in PvP & vice versa. You have to stop thinking Gear and think more about mental skill and Team work.
If you've only started PvPing at end Game instead of pvping from level 1 like everyone else you'll be at a disadvantage because you've not been learning the ropes of how PvP in an RvR environment works thats why they made PvP a viable tract from level 1. You can do Open World RvR & Scenarios from the beginning the system buffers you with HP points so you don't die too quickly there's no reason to pve your way through the entire game & skip learning how the PVP system works until the end unless you want too.
Issue 3 If you want the highest end PVE & PVP content in the game you'll fight ilke hell to take the enemy cities and keep the enemy from getting yours. The King Instance & PQ's give the highest of the highest in the PvE gear. It also gains your Realm a TON of points to increase your City's worth (city's gain levels, more content & gear becomes available in your city if it levels and by content I mean the higher end Dungeons etc). This isn't a me me me game you really gotta think team team team...do you really want to sit around and watch the enemy take over your city and leave you with a black market vendor?
There are benifits. However minor they are there. Such as a buff that you gain more exp/inf/renown that lasts an hour when your capital city levels up.
Sacking the capital is what your working twords. Believe me, thoes cities are freaking huge and its not going to be an easy task to do everything an enemy city has to offer in one sitting.
I understand what your saying. What keeps millions of people playing WoW once they get there 6th toon to 70? They are having fun. (please lets not start a flame on WoW ect, they are having fun and thats the bottom line)
Why keep playing WAR once you hit level 40? Its simple. If your having fun keep playing. If your not having fun odds are you didnt make it to level 40. Level really means squat if your having fun.
I can't speak for WAR, because I wasn't in beta.
The point in DAoC was realm pride, noteriety, and gaining realm ranks which lead to more unique skills. You took over towers/keeps, because they were your enemies. Not because you got a trinket that made you immune to death.
Gaining realm ranks, did little for pve, although it did have some nice advantages. In fact, before ToA expansion there was hardly any reason for a RvR players to PvE. RvR and PvE players coexisted, and were happy. It wasn't until the ToA expansion when they added all the PvE crap did DAoC fail. We used to have servers that topped 2500 back then. I look forward to those days again.
The same could be said for any game really. In DAoC, at maximum level, you had objectives for each realm which provided the whole realm increased gold, xp, greater offensive, etc. By taking a series of towers and keeps, you would eventually open up the main keep which held this artifact. It wasn't as much about just touching it, you actually had to take it back to your main keep or else you it would float around the battlefield until it ended up back home (or timed out as I recall, might be wrong on that one).
In addition to this, you could do dungeons, do pvp in some dungeons, or raid certain areas of the land. In conjunction with the keeps, depending on what you owned, certain PVP dungeons would be available to you, each RVR area had their own entrance from their safe zones, which where only opened when they owned the dungeon, otherwise you would have to run out into RVR land to get to your entrance to the dungeon. Keep in mind these dungeon's are massive, and it adds another element of intensity when your farming/raiding and are always on the look out for other players.
Now take what I've said, and add in public quests, better raiding systems, and a better additional RVR goals, and you pretty much have your answer. At the end its pretty much whatever you want to do. You are not always going to be deligated to "just raid dungeon/area X forever and ever" you can raid, join in public quests, RVR, PVP, doing mini PVP games, etc. There is a variety of things to do, this is war
Of course I'm just going by what I've read, so I have a feeling someone will be correcting me on the WAR stuff.
_____________________________
http://mmofriendslist.com
100% free
I have a question for anyone who's played the beta: Is the PvP leveling fun? Or does it feel like you're grinding out gear/ranks like it did in WoW?
And I understand the opinion of it being more rewarding because you're not only playing for yourself, but at the same time...I don't pay $15 a month so someone else can have a good time. I realize that makes me sound like an ass. I'm not saying that others shouldn't have a good time, or that I try to ruin others' experiences. And I'm most DEFINITELY not saying I enjoy griefing. I'm just saying most people also get entertainment from bettering their character in some way, so I understand the whole "what's the point" and "what do I get out of it" mentality. I wouldn't necessarily consider that selfish so much as I would say that the most fun you can have in a game like this is when there are risks. The more you have to gain and lose, the better it is when you're rewarded.
Anyways, just my two cents.
The fact you only have to go into the PVP once to start up your renown ranking is amazing because (if you are selfish) you can just sit back and do PVE while you get renown points because other players are taking keeps. I've reached Renown rank 10 without doing much, although i did go and try to take a keep on my own once....got ganked by a group of white lions..meh.
This is not a game.
You have to actualy be online at the time the keep is taken to get those points you got lucky most of the time you won't be on or in the area that keeps are affecting until after its already happened. You can't coast your way to RR 80.
Thanks for the more detailed answers.
I don't know if that much PVP is what I want to get in to, but if the various issues I see over at youtube are tightened up, I may give it a try.
ya I kinda have the same concerns as the OP and even posted on this, PvP can only be fun for so long, then it gets kinda repititious(spelling), Like to spend hours and hours after a few months of playing all in the name of honour or bragging rights?? well that may be fun in the first few months, but in the long run that will get..well ...bah boring really....I love to pvp dont get me wrong, but i do like very much a good strong PvE environment as well, i feel the mixture of both are crucial for 'long term' success in any Mmo, now i am not sure how the PvE is in Warhammer, or if they got some awsome big bosses that require a strong raid group to do?...but a mixture of pve and pvp makes it all the more funner.
WAR has a good strong mixture of both maybe you should look into the End GAme activities like Dungeons and the City Activities. You have to PvP to take the City but once the city is taken you can continue PvPing to keep it or go after the PvE events that you open up. The game is based aroudn RvR / PvP with this intertwining layer of PvE. You can't 100 percent accomplish true endgame without Both PvE & PVP.
Infact the only way you can eer say you've 100 percent completed everything in the game is by doing Both Activities.
Thanks a lot for the answers, exactly what I was looking for. I can see there are goals worth fighting for. Wether those goals and benefits will be enough to give longevity to the players remains to be seen but they certainly seem good enough to kick the fight off.
I do have another question linked to this though, for those in beta able to answer. Are there command structures in place which allow you to earn the right to communicate with certain players within your realm (say all group leaders etc) to better manipulate the troops and combine efforts accross all players? Or is the chat system limited to a server wide 'shout' allowing you talk to everyone, meaning most will have turned it off within minutes of the chuck norris chat begining?
Again thanks in advance.
-----
The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
You nkow I'm not sure about that...I knwo there are Guild Halls that have rooms only Guild Leaders can go to but as for a coordination channel ... hmm I know like if your in a Warband (4 6 man parties) you can easily communicate on the /warband channel..THERE IS however all sorts of channels that everyone can see but the enemy can't understand you. I'll have to check out the chat box more closely but I would think you'd be able to make your own channel and invite just team leaders for coordination purposes.
You can ONLY access some endgame PvE content IF, your realm has sieged the Capital City. Thus in order to get to some dungeons, and some raid content, you have to have control of that territory
http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/home/flash/2008-07_podcast.html
check out that video for information on the purpose of RvR