I don't find clicking through loot to ID it fun. The fact is most people use Decal to ID loot, which clearly shows that I am not alone in my feelings. If people resort to using Decal for a task then something is wrong. The devs need to learn to make it fun or simplify the process so it does not require Decal.
I like MMOs to be fun, not tedious life simulations. You don't fight monsters, cast spells, or use icons to identify real life objects, so don't use realism as an excuse.
Jaguar, I have to disagree with most of what you have said. You are talking about simplifying and streamlining many parts of the game. I love Asheron's Call because I am a lover of complexity. I don't want my hand held through a game. I was actually saddened when they implemented prismatic tapers, and increased buff durations because they took away layers of complexity. Yes, the old component system was a pain with all the different components you had to worry about, but it somehow made the magic system feel more... genuine.
Jaguar, I humbly ask you to let us nerds have at least one ridiculously complex mmorpg. In a gaming industry increasingly chasing the casual market, players like me feel alienated.
Random loot is a major staple of the AC franchise. I don't like the interface for AC for looking at loot (I don't use decal). AC2 was pretty simple, kill a mob random loot drops, very easy to check stats. You never knew if you were going to get that really special item.
Bear with me, I have some weird ideas I'd like to see.
Must haves:
- A similar combat system to the one in use now. Maybe it should have a small picture of the targeted entity instead of High/Med/Low, to let you target general areas... head, hands.
- Huge seamless world.
- Ability to play solo if you want (something like DDO's quests, having an option to pick Solo/Easy/etc. was awesome I thought).
- A quest panel that shows you quest timers, and basic info relating to quests that have been completed. This should not hold your hand.
- Must be skill based and not class based. I for some reason or another hate class based games, they never have enough customization available. It is for this reason that I can't get into any other MMO I've tried. I also appreciate the fact that I can make a Mace/Thrown Weapons/Lockpick character if I see fit to do so.
- An actual use for the Deception skill.
- An easy to understand/use allegiance panel. AC1's was great, but I thought it would be cool to have an allegiance map accessible.
- A way to play through the game without NEEDING magic. It should be possible to be a mage, or a melee, or anything inbetween if you want. Needing to be 3-school was great, but it got kinda tiring, felt like I was playing a mage that just so happened to fight with his hands.
- Vaugue as hell quest directions. Low though my IQ may be, I like to be made to think, instead of being told "Meet so-and-so at 52.3N and 23.4E"
- AC2-like crafting. Making my own equipment was completely bad-ass. My character made that club with his own hands!
- Live events. Hell. Yes.
- Hollow weapons. Take that newbie wearing a robe.
Must not haves:
- Friendliness to 3rd party apps.
- Housing system similar to AC1's. In the early days of the game I enjoyed being able to run through the wildreness for hours and just find new stuff. Running into a housing complex every 2 minutes ruined that for me. Lone wildreness houses were always pretty cool though, like the one near Lin or the one on the N. Land-bridge.
- Grandpatron xp.
- +Melee D on wands.
- A hand-holding map. AC's map was originally so vauge you couldn't tell what town you were looking at.
- Majors, so that every single person needs a majors suit.
Things I just think would be cool but wouldn't be terribly upset not to see:
- Ability to make your character left or right handed. As a lefty I feel discriminated against!
- During character creation, allow for height/weight changes. Character customization is very important to me for some reason, makes me get more into my character.
- An innovative healing system, repair broken bones, cuts, etc. (Metal Gear Solid 3?)
- An item appraisal system similar to that of early AC, if you pick something up, no way to know whether it's good or not. It always made finding items more exciting.
- Mapping of dungeons as your run through. Maybe something simialr to that of Diablo or even Etrian Odyssey would be awesome.
- Truly unique equipment / items; maybe just for the first people to run through a quest. Would give great incentive to explore. Keep them balanced, but make them have some extra bad-assery to them.
- Make different weapon sets have their own pros/cons. Dagger should be so fast you can hardly see it, but be weak and cause bleed-out damage. Mace could be slow, strong, and crush bones or break shields. Keep the elemental weapons. Maybe add poison, holy, etc. to the mix.
This is all I can think of off the top of my head. I think about this crap too much.
I like that thinking outside of the box Jaguar. without thinking outside of the box, new features would never be implemented to any game
id have faith in Turbine to keep the dynamic that AC1 had in attempt of recreating an AC3 because so much player feedback is available on the MMORPG forums and the Turbine AC forums... You want AC3 to be more based on AC2 than AC1?
Ac3 should for most be based on ac2 and some little things that made ac1 great,but mostly continuing with evolving ac2 not ac1.
Ac2 was a great game, but ac1 fanbois wanted a game almost similar to ac1 with grafics upgrade:(
If they would have wait 1 more year and released it complete with hero addon and better performance and better advertising AC2 would still excist.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Well, just seeing as AC2 failed horribly, it would seem to me it would make better sense to base it more off of AC1, as it has been going for a long long time now. I think it'd make much more sense to add little things from AC2. AC2 was a completely different game. With a similar name, everyone was expecting a similar experience, and when it came to be a (from what I remember) moreso class based game, no one really stayed into it for very long; myself included. I'm totally open for a new experience, but it just wasn't in line with what I was expecting.
Well, just seeing as AC2 failed horribly, it would seem to me it would make better sense to base it more off of AC1, as it has been going for a long long time now. I think it'd make much more sense to add little things from AC2. AC2 was a completely different game. With a similar name, everyone was expecting a similar experience, and when it came to be a (from what I remember) moreso class based game, no one really stayed into it for very long; myself included. I'm totally open for a new experience, but it just wasn't in line with what I was expecting.
Arn't you generalizing alittle bit?
Imo, Turbine went the right direction from AC1 to AC2, but their execution was horrible! AC2 didn't fail because of the "new skilltree", crafting or any other aspect that sets the two Dereth games apart, it was because AC2 was almost unplayable at launch.
P.S If I had a penny for everytime a disgruntled AC1 fan bashed AC2, i'd be a rich man today...(not aimed at you Darillus)
Arn't you generalizing alittle bit? Imo, Turbine went the right direction from AC1 to AC2, but their execution was horrible! AC2 didn't fail because of the "new skilltree", crafting or any other aspect that sets the two Dereth games apart, it was because AC2 was almost unplayable at launch. P.S If I had a penny for everytime a disgruntled AC1 fan bashed AC2, i'd be a rich man today...(not aimed at you Darillus)
I probably am generalizing a bit too much. I actually really really liked AC2, but my computer was too garbage at that point to play it with graphics turned to anything but bare minimum. That's what really killed it for me; that and I remember I couldn't figure the allegiance/faction system out. Also, I thought the crafting system was totally bad-ass.
Now that I think about it, I've had this computer since before AC2 came out......... probably time to upgrade; hahahahaha.
I'm starting to think a of poeple on this thread haven't played AC in a while..
First off: Buff levels based on player level.
BS. At level 9 with spec life magic, I could cast level 5's. This was self buffed. I should not be penalized becase someone who doesn't spec life magic can't.
Next: Buff bots. -- Re-introducing spell reasearch is a great idea. Also, eliminating third party apps would get rid of buff bots. Third party apps are what spoiled the game. Not buff bots.
Lastly, you talk about it being a pain in the ass to have to buff each piece of armor individually. this was fixed. You now click on your avatar and cast the spell. It will cast it on all available pieces at 50 mana + each additional piece. A full buff cycle now takes LESS THAN 4 minutes for ONE HOUR buffs. This is on a melee with trained life/item/creature.
If you want to limit the total amount of buffs a player can have, go play AO. It's an old school game. Quite a bit of fun.. and it has buff restrctions.
I'm starting to think a of poeple on this thread haven't played AC in a while..
First off: Buff levels based on player level. BS. At level 9 with spec life magic, I could cast level 5's. This was self buffed. I should not be penalized becase someone who doesn't spec life magic can't. Next: Buff bots. -- Re-introducing spell reasearch is a great idea. Also, eliminating third party apps would get rid of buff bots. Third party apps are what spoiled the game. Not buff bots. Lastly, you talk about it being a pain in the ass to have to buff each piece of armor individually. this was fixed. You now click on your avatar and cast the spell. It will cast it on all available pieces at 50 mana + each additional piece. A full buff cycle now takes LESS THAN 4 minutes for ONE HOUR buffs. This is on a melee with trained life/item/creature.
If you want to limit the total amount of buffs a player can have, go play AO. It's an old school game. Quite a bit of fun.. and it has buff restrctions.
Not sure how much of this post was directed at me. I know I made a suggestion about buff restrictions, but it was not based on level, instead it was based on a skill. That way mages would get the better end of the stick and others hopefully wouldn't be as reliant on buffs as they were.
I know I suggested a fix to item magic. Wasn't aware they had changed it at all.
I don't think it is a secret that many of us haven't played AC in quite some time o_O
For your last comment, I have played AO and I did not like it. Funny thing is, even with ACs obvious problems, it was the best MMO out there, even to the current MMO standards. That's my opinion at least.
It's pretty sad to see people asking for a streamlined AC3. It should be an AC game, not a WoW-wannabe.
I agree with a lot of what have been said here. The complexity of AC was wonderful. It wasn't all about reaching "the end" as most new mmorpgs are today. I like that that. It wasn't all about completing it all as fast as possible.
Imo they should stick to the "school" system regarding spells etc. To me it seems stupid having to spec in certain skills in other games. But devs today seems to have bigger greed than balls and creativity. Newer games are so dumbed down it makes me sick.
Mages in a lot of games can only spec in one "line" of magic for example and that's plain stupid. That feature alone prevents all the resistances on armor. If a mage can only cast Frost magic, ofc you can't have monster and/or players who are basically immune to frost.
A mage should be able to cast various kinds of spells like in AC1. That allows the mage to learn stuff as his adventures take him through the game and use the best suited spell against the monsters he meets.
Turbine needs to learn from their other games. When I started playing AC1, I met some cool people around Shoushi and Hebian but when they introduced Allegiance Mansions and the market place, they completely killed the towns, the sub/hub (depending on server. ) and the community as a whole.
The towns were deserted and that was just plain annoying.
I kinda like the idea of allegiance/guild/tribe mansions, but not at the expense of the community. If they want to implement stuff like that again, they need to find a new way of doing it.
The same thing goes for the personal housing. The houses and apartments weren't really that bad and didn't hurt the community like the mansions did but they took up so much space and added so many portals that the roads and areas between cities died. In my early AC days, I would usually meet someone if I ran from Shoushi to Hebian but not near the end of my time there. It was all empty. That really killed my fun.
I don't like the idea of quest XP either tbh. If you want to get better at using your sword (or whatever), you should go use it! Collecting plants for a NPC and then getting XP to raise your sword skill is retarded! (to put it in the nicest way possible.)
People seem to forget what made mmorpgs stand out in the gaming world these days. They weren't about finishing the game, hitting max level as fast as possible, raiding constantly or anything like that. They were all about the "life" of the character. In AC the GAME was fun. In WoW (etc) the road from 1-70 (or whatever max level is today) was a pointless time sink. The game started when you hit the max and started raiding/PvPing. They might as well let you create max level characters from the beginning in those games.
When a game becomes all about reaching the end asap, people will always whine about something. If they have to kill stuff for a day, they whine about "horrible grinding". If another class/type of character can level faster than they can at a specific level range, they will be screaming for the nerf bat etc.
Because AC was all about THE ROAD to the higher levels, it didn't really matter all that much if one guy had a patron powerleveling him for a day and another guy didn't. It didn't break any game balance like it would if the same thing was possible in the newer mmorpgs.
Also, because the max level wasn't the point of the whole game, the community was a lot nicer and more helpful than in games such as WoW. In WoW everyone is always in a hurry. If they're not making XP/raiding/farming/PvPing, they're wasting their time. It wasn't like that in AC1. Remember the LS outside Hebian? You would often see a group of people standing there talking about some random topic and you could almost always count on someone helping you on a corpse rescue mission if you asked them politely. Good luck finding the same attitude in the new games.
I'm not sure what to do about the buffing issue though. I mean, I agree about them being too powerful but limiting them depending of the target character seems kinda wrong/weird. The spell is cast by the caster. Not the target. The level/power of the spell should kinda be based on the caster and not the target then. Hehe But something would have to be changed.
Auction House? Well, I don't really like the idea too much. In principle it's a handy and interesting way of selling stuff but it also adds a lot of greed and makes things a lot easier for gold sellers. They don't have to spend any time selling their stuff. They can just put their turtle shells (or whatever) up for sale and go back to farming more.
In AC you would often just sell your loot unless it was really good. Then a lower level could buy it from the shop if they wanted. For a fair (ish) price. Imagine an AH.. People would just put everything up there instead and for a much higher price. That's what happens in other mmorpgs anyway. The greed takes over and leaves the newbies with some big item problems.
Items in general..
I don't mind them adding more "stats" to some items really. A 2-7 UA weapon with SK IV and HS V on it was in fact just a 2-7 UA weapon. It was no better than a 2-7 UA weapon with Quickness I on it because everyone buffed over the stats anyway.
I just don't want to see "set items" or "uniques" being the best items though. A game becomes insanely boring when everyone is running around looking like clones because that ONE set of armor is so much better than anything else.
The best items should probably not be crafted either. Not that I mind crafting but I realize that not everyone enjoys crafting and they shouldn't be forced to craft or pay insane amounts to the greedy crafters. The insane greed should be prevented as much as possible. I mean, ofc a godly item is going to be expensive but if things go the same way as in other mmorpgs the prices on moderately decent items will be stupid as well. It's like some people seem to think that items suddenly turns godly because THEY touched them.
And I agree with whoever posted the thing about bind on pickup/equip items. It's a stupid idea and shouldn't be in any game.
Ok, it might be fair enough on quest rewards. I mean, if I get a medal for doing something in a war, I can't just pass it on to my mate either. It was for me.. For MY actions.
Jaguar, I have to disagree with most of what you have said. You are talking about simplifying and streamlining many parts of the game. I love Asheron's Call because I am a lover of complexity. I don't want my hand held through a game. I was actually saddened when they implemented prismatic tapers, and increased buff durations because they took away layers of complexity. Yes, the old component system was a pain with all the different components you had to worry about, but it somehow made the magic system feel more... genuine. Jaguar, I humbly ask you to let us nerds have at least one ridiculously complex mmorpg. In a gaming industry increasingly chasing the casual market, players like me feel alienated.
Agreed Asheron's Call was not that horrid AC2 thing.
We have a dozen restrictive, confined, controlled, Skill tree, linear, EQ-classed, wow-morphs to choose from . If Asheron's Call 3 were to follow down that sheep path, I see no reason to make it at all.
I never want to see a skill tree again, in any game. I never want to see forced teaming through half-baked character classes again, ever. But alas, ever since turbine didn't advertize Asheron's Call the market was left open for EQ to become the archetype for the MMORPG. We are suffering for this mistake to this very day.
Asheron's Call 3 Requires:
Open Skill Choices & Character Stats.
Random Loot Generation
Spells - Buff Spells, Debuff Spells, Heal Spells, Drain Spells, Banes Spells, Spells Spells Spells... you get the picture.
What Asheron's Call 3 Needs to Keep Out:
XP Chains!
3rd Party Programs (and with that the Bots)!
Skill Trees and rediculous forced teaming through poor character skills!
Endgame crap! Asheron's Call didn't need endgame because the game was the game! Most of the MMORPGs I have played from WoW to Tablua Rasa to Warhammer to LotRO etc. the game play isn't very interesting. A dungeon is small and the critters come one at a time and I tap keys - slowly running out of one of my bars, hoping that the bar wont run out before the critter dies. There are few ways to change the battle. You start with X-amount of some stat and play the attrition game against the enemy's health bar. Boring.
Asheron's Call had multiple critters attacking at once, running in from the sides, forcing you to take cover around corners (where the other games the mobs just ghost through the wall or your shield and attack anyhow) Every other game I have played was just globs of mobs standing in little clusters so that you would fight one, rest, fight one, rest, fight one rest - I HATE that style of play. Anyhow, back to the Must Not Have List...
Balancing for PvP! (The Fool's Errand of all modern games) Two classes that are different can not ever be balanced. Don't try, don't even think about it, it ruins every game that gives it a momentary thought.
Puntuation Mark Missions! These missions are pathetic; running between punctuation marks, down a blinking, lighted trail marked on the ground and on your map is not a quest and should never ever garner someone XP. I hate pizza delivery missions and that is all there are now in the post EQ-Wow games.
People forget that holding back hoards of creatures, blocking hallways while your team flees with their buffs falling, fighting shadows that have invaded your cities, exploring dungeons (Sometimes for hours!), loosing your body, going to some point on the map because you have never been there and have no clue what you will find, running for your life through forrests to try and reach a portal or lifestone...
These things were Asheron's Call. These things have never been in other games and if they are not going to be in AC3 then don't bother wasting our time.
"The reality of the poor in America isn't the difference between The Haves and The Have Nots, it is the difference between The Haves and The Have Lots."
Jaguar, I have to disagree with most of what you have said. You are talking about simplifying and streamlining many parts of the game. I love Asheron's Call because I am a lover of complexity. I don't want my hand held through a game. I was actually saddened when they implemented prismatic tapers, and increased buff durations because they took away layers of complexity. Yes, the old component system was a pain with all the different components you had to worry about, but it somehow made the magic system feel more... genuine. Jaguar, I humbly ask you to let us nerds have at least one ridiculously complex mmorpg. In a gaming industry increasingly chasing the casual market, players like me feel alienated.
Agreed Asheron's Call was not that horrid AC2 thing.
We have a dozen restrictive, confined, controlled, Skill tree, linear, EQ-classed, wow-morphs to choose from . If Asheron's Call 3 were to follow down that sheep path, I see no reason to make it at all.
I never want to see a skill tree again, in any game. I never want to see forced teaming through half-baked character classes again, ever. But alas, ever since turbine didn't advertize Asheron's Call the market was left open for EQ to become the archetype for the MMORPG. We are suffering for this mistake to this very day.
Asheron's Call 3 Requires:
Open Skill Choices & Character Stats.
Random Loot Generation
Spells - Buff Spells, Debuff Spells, Heal Spells, Drain Spells, Banes Spells, Spells Spells Spells... you get the picture.
What Asheron's Call 3 Needs to Keep Out:
XP Chains!
3rd Party Programs (and with that the Bots)!
Skill Trees and rediculous forced teaming through poor character skills!
Endgame crap! Asheron's Call didn't need endgame because the game was the game! Most of the MMORPGs I have played from WoW to Tablua Rasa to Warhammer to LotRO etc. the game play isn't very interesting. A dungeon is small and the critters come one at a time and I tap keys - slowly running out of one of my bars, hoping that the bar wont run out before the critter dies. There are few ways to change the battle. You start with X-amount of some stat and play the attrition game against the enemy's health bar. Boring.
Asheron's Call had multiple critters attacking at once, running in from the sides, forcing you to take cover around corners (where the other games the mobs just ghost through the wall or your shield and attack anyhow) Every other game I have played was just globs of mobs standing in little clusters so that you would fight one, rest, fight one, rest, fight one rest - I HATE that style of play. Anyhow, back to the Must Not Have List...
Balancing for PvP! (The Fool's Errand of all modern games) Two classes that are different can not ever be balanced. Don't try, don't even think about it, it ruins every game that gives it a momentary thought.
Puntuation Mark Missions! These missions are pathetic; running between punctuation marks, down a blinking, lighted trail marked on the ground and on your map is not a quest and should never ever garner someone XP. I hate pizza delivery missions and that is all there are now in the post EQ-Wow games.
People forget that holding back hoards of creatures, blocking hallways while your team flees with their buffs falling, fighting shadows that have invaded your cities, exploring dungeons (Sometimes for hours!), loosing your body, going to some point on the map because you have never been there and have no clue what you will find, running for your life through forrests to try and reach a portal or lifestone...
These things were Asheron's Call. These things have never been in other games and if they are not going to be in AC3 then don't bother wasting our time.
I like a lot of your guys ideas in this thread...I just have one question....is there a leak somewhere about an AC3 being made or are we just having fun....don't tease me like this you bastages!
I remember backing myself into a corner so my back couldn't get hit while dozens of Othoi attacked me...Dozens and it was all in a days work. The overwhelming amount of mobs you had to fight and the frantic breakneck pacing of the combat was a blast. Jumping across a chasm was a completely viable and common escape from mobs.
No other MMO I have ever played had the level of freedom AC had. I miss the days of old AC when the world was alive with players.
But it had its share of crippling issues also. A quest journal would have been nice. If you were unable to play for a week or more who the frick could remember what the heck they were doing? Third party apps. The Doom of AC. Once they let these bad boys in bots were the order of the day. Buff bots, Trade bots, Portal bots, combat bots....the bot issue was pathetic and STILL to this day, Turbine has done nothing to improve the game to make the use of bots unnecessary. The interface is from Hell itself. The Chat system is total garbage, The magic system, while interesting, was about as easy to weild as a six foot long 2x4 in a knife fight. (especially in the days of 3 or 4 backpacks full of regents) It took upwards of 10 (ten) minutes for a party to buff up or re-buff. The Combat end of magic was "ok" but the utility end of it....yikes. No rez made death in a group a BIG pain in the ass as you had to get back to your party through the now respawned dungeon or whatever, sometimes it was impossible to get back because of doors or levers. And last but not least...the XP chains. These pretty much ruined the spirit of the game.
The salvage system was a great way to solve the loot vs crafted issue many MMO's have. Many games loot out weighs crafting. In AC you could modify much of your loot by using salvage from basically deconstructing other looted items making some really awesome stuff.
IMHO, IF there was an AC3 they would need to retain the sense of total freedom and excitement AC has but really smooth out the mechanics of the gameplay.
AC just needs a new graphic engine, new sounds but not different sounds (thedeath and combat screams were SO freaking funny... UGH UGH UGH from blunt arrows was great), and a new continent.
I hated hollow weapons and banes, I personaloly would do something with that.
I had a dream (pipe dream) of hitting the Powerball and buying the game, remaking it with FEW changes and calling it Asheron's Revenge.
hell, even a fresh PVP server would get me back to AC in a flash. Now, you just cant compete with 9-year maxed out characters.
Item drop on death = more forthought and better teamwork.
Vassal Patron system... Priceless needs an anti-exploit however.
Discovering spells/ recipes... Sets AC apart from everything.
Buffing... nothing like being prepared.
Botting ... ucm = bad, merchants, portals and buffers not that bad.
BoP items... Soulbinding an Item should cost a rediculous amount, and prevent that item from normal repairs.
Cities need to be more dynamic... areas should be guild claimable, other areas close by serve as hubs, merchants and such. "players should be able to make some money by buying in one town and selling in others, this should also subsidise player crafting" the more trade coming into a city the cheaper the mats are.
Eve like world
AOC like melee / combos
Cloth map, just like the old ultimas.
no coordinate system
instead of a quest log, have a search-able NPC chat log.
Items need description even though random. Like old time games , you pick up the longsword, it feels weightless the runes begin to glow as you handle it. upon drawing the blade to fend off the bunneh!!! forces and energies unknown lunge the sword into Bob your vassal. heh...
Comments
I don't find clicking through loot to ID it fun. The fact is most people use Decal to ID loot, which clearly shows that I am not alone in my feelings. If people resort to using Decal for a task then something is wrong. The devs need to learn to make it fun or simplify the process so it does not require Decal.
I like MMOs to be fun, not tedious life simulations. You don't fight monsters, cast spells, or use icons to identify real life objects, so don't use realism as an excuse.
Jaguar, I have to disagree with most of what you have said. You are talking about simplifying and streamlining many parts of the game. I love Asheron's Call because I am a lover of complexity. I don't want my hand held through a game. I was actually saddened when they implemented prismatic tapers, and increased buff durations because they took away layers of complexity. Yes, the old component system was a pain with all the different components you had to worry about, but it somehow made the magic system feel more... genuine.
Jaguar, I humbly ask you to let us nerds have at least one ridiculously complex mmorpg. In a gaming industry increasingly chasing the casual market, players like me feel alienated.
Random loot is a major staple of the AC franchise. I don't like the interface for AC for looking at loot (I don't use decal). AC2 was pretty simple, kill a mob random loot drops, very easy to check stats. You never knew if you were going to get that really special item.
Bear with me, I have some weird ideas I'd like to see.
Must haves:
- A similar combat system to the one in use now. Maybe it should have a small picture of the targeted entity instead of High/Med/Low, to let you target general areas... head, hands.
- Huge seamless world.
- Ability to play solo if you want (something like DDO's quests, having an option to pick Solo/Easy/etc. was awesome I thought).
- A quest panel that shows you quest timers, and basic info relating to quests that have been completed. This should not hold your hand.
- Must be skill based and not class based. I for some reason or another hate class based games, they never have enough customization available. It is for this reason that I can't get into any other MMO I've tried. I also appreciate the fact that I can make a Mace/Thrown Weapons/Lockpick character if I see fit to do so.
- An actual use for the Deception skill.
- An easy to understand/use allegiance panel. AC1's was great, but I thought it would be cool to have an allegiance map accessible.
- A way to play through the game without NEEDING magic. It should be possible to be a mage, or a melee, or anything inbetween if you want. Needing to be 3-school was great, but it got kinda tiring, felt like I was playing a mage that just so happened to fight with his hands.
- Vaugue as hell quest directions. Low though my IQ may be, I like to be made to think, instead of being told "Meet so-and-so at 52.3N and 23.4E"
- AC2-like crafting. Making my own equipment was completely bad-ass. My character made that club with his own hands!
- Live events. Hell. Yes.
- Hollow weapons. Take that newbie wearing a robe.
Must not haves:
- Friendliness to 3rd party apps.
- Housing system similar to AC1's. In the early days of the game I enjoyed being able to run through the wildreness for hours and just find new stuff. Running into a housing complex every 2 minutes ruined that for me. Lone wildreness houses were always pretty cool though, like the one near Lin or the one on the N. Land-bridge.
- Grandpatron xp.
- +Melee D on wands.
- A hand-holding map. AC's map was originally so vauge you couldn't tell what town you were looking at.
- Majors, so that every single person needs a majors suit.
Things I just think would be cool but wouldn't be terribly upset not to see:
- Ability to make your character left or right handed. As a lefty I feel discriminated against!
- During character creation, allow for height/weight changes. Character customization is very important to me for some reason, makes me get more into my character.
- An innovative healing system, repair broken bones, cuts, etc. (Metal Gear Solid 3?)
- An item appraisal system similar to that of early AC, if you pick something up, no way to know whether it's good or not. It always made finding items more exciting.
- Mapping of dungeons as your run through. Maybe something simialr to that of Diablo or even Etrian Odyssey would be awesome.
- Truly unique equipment / items; maybe just for the first people to run through a quest. Would give great incentive to explore. Keep them balanced, but make them have some extra bad-assery to them.
- Make different weapon sets have their own pros/cons. Dagger should be so fast you can hardly see it, but be weak and cause bleed-out damage. Mace could be slow, strong, and crush bones or break shields. Keep the elemental weapons. Maybe add poison, holy, etc. to the mix.
This is all I can think of off the top of my head. I think about this crap too much.
Ac3 should for most be based on ac2 and some little things that made ac1 great,but mostly continuing with evolving ac2 not ac1.
Ac2 was a great game, but ac1 fanbois wanted a game almost similar to ac1 with grafics upgrade:(
If they would have wait 1 more year and released it complete with hero addon and better performance and better advertising AC2 would still excist.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Well, just seeing as AC2 failed horribly, it would seem to me it would make better sense to base it more off of AC1, as it has been going for a long long time now. I think it'd make much more sense to add little things from AC2. AC2 was a completely different game. With a similar name, everyone was expecting a similar experience, and when it came to be a (from what I remember) moreso class based game, no one really stayed into it for very long; myself included. I'm totally open for a new experience, but it just wasn't in line with what I was expecting.
Arn't you generalizing alittle bit?
Imo, Turbine went the right direction from AC1 to AC2, but their execution was horrible! AC2 didn't fail because of the "new skilltree", crafting or any other aspect that sets the two Dereth games apart, it was because AC2 was almost unplayable at launch.
P.S If I had a penny for everytime a disgruntled AC1 fan bashed AC2, i'd be a rich man today...(not aimed at you Darillus
)
I probably am generalizing a bit too much. I actually really really liked AC2, but my computer was too garbage at that point to play it with graphics turned to anything but bare minimum. That's what really killed it for me; that and I remember I couldn't figure the allegiance/faction system out. Also, I thought the crafting system was totally bad-ass.
Now that I think about it, I've had this computer since before AC2 came out......... probably time to upgrade; hahahahaha.
I'm starting to think a of poeple on this thread haven't played AC in a while..
First off: Buff levels based on player level.
BS. At level 9 with spec life magic, I could cast level 5's. This was self buffed. I should not be penalized becase someone who doesn't spec life magic can't.
Next: Buff bots. -- Re-introducing spell reasearch is a great idea. Also, eliminating third party apps would get rid of buff bots. Third party apps are what spoiled the game. Not buff bots.
Lastly, you talk about it being a pain in the ass to have to buff each piece of armor individually. this was fixed. You now click on your avatar and cast the spell. It will cast it on all available pieces at 50 mana + each additional piece. A full buff cycle now takes LESS THAN 4 minutes for ONE HOUR buffs. This is on a melee with trained life/item/creature.
If you want to limit the total amount of buffs a player can have, go play AO. It's an old school game. Quite a bit of fun.. and it has buff restrctions.
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Not sure how much of this post was directed at me. I know I made a suggestion about buff restrictions, but it was not based on level, instead it was based on a skill. That way mages would get the better end of the stick and others hopefully wouldn't be as reliant on buffs as they were.
I know I suggested a fix to item magic. Wasn't aware they had changed it at all.
I don't think it is a secret that many of us haven't played AC in quite some time o_O
For your last comment, I have played AO and I did not like it. Funny thing is, even with ACs obvious problems, it was the best MMO out there, even to the current MMO standards. That's my opinion at least.
It's pretty sad to see people asking for a streamlined AC3. It should be an AC game, not a WoW-wannabe.
) and the community as a whole.
I agree with a lot of what have been said here. The complexity of AC was wonderful. It wasn't all about reaching "the end" as most new mmorpgs are today. I like that that. It wasn't all about completing it all as fast as possible.
Imo they should stick to the "school" system regarding spells etc. To me it seems stupid having to spec in certain skills in other games. But devs today seems to have bigger greed than balls and creativity. Newer games are so dumbed down it makes me sick.
Mages in a lot of games can only spec in one "line" of magic for example and that's plain stupid. That feature alone prevents all the resistances on armor. If a mage can only cast Frost magic, ofc you can't have monster and/or players who are basically immune to frost.
A mage should be able to cast various kinds of spells like in AC1. That allows the mage to learn stuff as his adventures take him through the game and use the best suited spell against the monsters he meets.
Turbine needs to learn from their other games. When I started playing AC1, I met some cool people around Shoushi and Hebian but when they introduced Allegiance Mansions and the market place, they completely killed the towns, the sub/hub (depending on server.
The towns were deserted and that was just plain annoying.
I kinda like the idea of allegiance/guild/tribe mansions, but not at the expense of the community. If they want to implement stuff like that again, they need to find a new way of doing it.
The same thing goes for the personal housing. The houses and apartments weren't really that bad and didn't hurt the community like the mansions did but they took up so much space and added so many portals that the roads and areas between cities died. In my early AC days, I would usually meet someone if I ran from Shoushi to Hebian but not near the end of my time there. It was all empty. That really killed my fun.
I don't like the idea of quest XP either tbh. If you want to get better at using your sword (or whatever), you should go use it! Collecting plants for a NPC and then getting XP to raise your sword skill is retarded! (to put it in the nicest way possible.)
People seem to forget what made mmorpgs stand out in the gaming world these days. They weren't about finishing the game, hitting max level as fast as possible, raiding constantly or anything like that. They were all about the "life" of the character. In AC the GAME was fun. In WoW (etc) the road from 1-70 (or whatever max level is today) was a pointless time sink. The game started when you hit the max and started raiding/PvPing. They might as well let you create max level characters from the beginning in those games.
When a game becomes all about reaching the end asap, people will always whine about something. If they have to kill stuff for a day, they whine about "horrible grinding". If another class/type of character can level faster than they can at a specific level range, they will be screaming for the nerf bat etc.
Because AC was all about THE ROAD to the higher levels, it didn't really matter all that much if one guy had a patron powerleveling him for a day and another guy didn't. It didn't break any game balance like it would if the same thing was possible in the newer mmorpgs.
Also, because the max level wasn't the point of the whole game, the community was a lot nicer and more helpful than in games such as WoW. In WoW everyone is always in a hurry. If they're not making XP/raiding/farming/PvPing, they're wasting their time. It wasn't like that in AC1. Remember the LS outside Hebian? You would often see a group of people standing there talking about some random topic and you could almost always count on someone helping you on a corpse rescue mission if you asked them politely. Good luck finding the same attitude in the new games.
I'm not sure what to do about the buffing issue though. I mean, I agree about them being too powerful but limiting them depending of the target character seems kinda wrong/weird. The spell is cast by the caster. Not the target. The level/power of the spell should kinda be based on the caster and not the target then. Hehe But something would have to be changed.
Auction House? Well, I don't really like the idea too much. In principle it's a handy and interesting way of selling stuff but it also adds a lot of greed and makes things a lot easier for gold sellers. They don't have to spend any time selling their stuff. They can just put their turtle shells (or whatever) up for sale and go back to farming more.
In AC you would often just sell your loot unless it was really good. Then a lower level could buy it from the shop if they wanted. For a fair (ish) price. Imagine an AH.. People would just put everything up there instead and for a much higher price. That's what happens in other mmorpgs anyway. The greed takes over and leaves the newbies with some big item problems.
Items in general..
I don't mind them adding more "stats" to some items really. A 2-7 UA weapon with SK IV and HS V on it was in fact just a 2-7 UA weapon. It was no better than a 2-7 UA weapon with Quickness I on it because everyone buffed over the stats anyway.
I just don't want to see "set items" or "uniques" being the best items though. A game becomes insanely boring when everyone is running around looking like clones because that ONE set of armor is so much better than anything else.
The best items should probably not be crafted either. Not that I mind crafting but I realize that not everyone enjoys crafting and they shouldn't be forced to craft or pay insane amounts to the greedy crafters. The insane greed should be prevented as much as possible. I mean, ofc a godly item is going to be expensive but if things go the same way as in other mmorpgs the prices on moderately decent items will be stupid as well. It's like some people seem to think that items suddenly turns godly because THEY touched them.
And I agree with whoever posted the thing about bind on pickup/equip items. It's a stupid idea and shouldn't be in any game.
Ok, it might be fair enough on quest rewards. I mean, if I get a medal for doing something in a war, I can't just pass it on to my mate either. It was for me.. For MY actions.
I just want AC with today's graphics.
Agreed Asheron's Call was not that horrid AC2 thing.
We have a dozen restrictive, confined, controlled, Skill tree, linear, EQ-classed, wow-morphs to choose from . If Asheron's Call 3 were to follow down that sheep path, I see no reason to make it at all.
I never want to see a skill tree again, in any game. I never want to see forced teaming through half-baked character classes again, ever. But alas, ever since turbine didn't advertize Asheron's Call the market was left open for EQ to become the archetype for the MMORPG. We are suffering for this mistake to this very day.
Asheron's Call 3 Requires:
Open Skill Choices & Character Stats.
Random Loot Generation
Spells - Buff Spells, Debuff Spells, Heal Spells, Drain Spells, Banes Spells, Spells Spells Spells... you get the picture.
What Asheron's Call 3 Needs to Keep Out:
XP Chains!
3rd Party Programs (and with that the Bots)!
Skill Trees and rediculous forced teaming through poor character skills!
Endgame crap! Asheron's Call didn't need endgame because the game was the game! Most of the MMORPGs I have played from WoW to Tablua Rasa to Warhammer to LotRO etc. the game play isn't very interesting. A dungeon is small and the critters come one at a time and I tap keys - slowly running out of one of my bars, hoping that the bar wont run out before the critter dies. There are few ways to change the battle. You start with X-amount of some stat and play the attrition game against the enemy's health bar. Boring.
Asheron's Call had multiple critters attacking at once, running in from the sides, forcing you to take cover around corners (where the other games the mobs just ghost through the wall or your shield and attack anyhow) Every other game I have played was just globs of mobs standing in little clusters so that you would fight one, rest, fight one, rest, fight one rest - I HATE that style of play. Anyhow, back to the Must Not Have List...
Balancing for PvP! (The Fool's Errand of all modern games) Two classes that are different can not ever be balanced. Don't try, don't even think about it, it ruins every game that gives it a momentary thought.
Puntuation Mark Missions! These missions are pathetic; running between punctuation marks, down a blinking, lighted trail marked on the ground and on your map is not a quest and should never ever garner someone XP. I hate pizza delivery missions and that is all there are now in the post EQ-Wow games.
People forget that holding back hoards of creatures, blocking hallways while your team flees with their buffs falling, fighting shadows that have invaded your cities, exploring dungeons (Sometimes for hours!), loosing your body, going to some point on the map because you have never been there and have no clue what you will find, running for your life through forrests to try and reach a portal or lifestone...
These things were Asheron's Call. These things have never been in other games and if they are not going to be in AC3 then don't bother wasting our time.
"The reality of the poor in America isn't the difference between The Haves and The Have Nots, it is the difference between The Haves and The Have Lots."
Agreed Asheron's Call was not that horrid AC2 thing.
We have a dozen restrictive, confined, controlled, Skill tree, linear, EQ-classed, wow-morphs to choose from . If Asheron's Call 3 were to follow down that sheep path, I see no reason to make it at all.
I never want to see a skill tree again, in any game. I never want to see forced teaming through half-baked character classes again, ever. But alas, ever since turbine didn't advertize Asheron's Call the market was left open for EQ to become the archetype for the MMORPG. We are suffering for this mistake to this very day.
Asheron's Call 3 Requires:
Open Skill Choices & Character Stats.
Random Loot Generation
Spells - Buff Spells, Debuff Spells, Heal Spells, Drain Spells, Banes Spells, Spells Spells Spells... you get the picture.
What Asheron's Call 3 Needs to Keep Out:
XP Chains!
3rd Party Programs (and with that the Bots)!
Skill Trees and rediculous forced teaming through poor character skills!
Endgame crap! Asheron's Call didn't need endgame because the game was the game! Most of the MMORPGs I have played from WoW to Tablua Rasa to Warhammer to LotRO etc. the game play isn't very interesting. A dungeon is small and the critters come one at a time and I tap keys - slowly running out of one of my bars, hoping that the bar wont run out before the critter dies. There are few ways to change the battle. You start with X-amount of some stat and play the attrition game against the enemy's health bar. Boring.
Asheron's Call had multiple critters attacking at once, running in from the sides, forcing you to take cover around corners (where the other games the mobs just ghost through the wall or your shield and attack anyhow) Every other game I have played was just globs of mobs standing in little clusters so that you would fight one, rest, fight one, rest, fight one rest - I HATE that style of play. Anyhow, back to the Must Not Have List...
Balancing for PvP! (The Fool's Errand of all modern games) Two classes that are different can not ever be balanced. Don't try, don't even think about it, it ruins every game that gives it a momentary thought.
Puntuation Mark Missions! These missions are pathetic; running between punctuation marks, down a blinking, lighted trail marked on the ground and on your map is not a quest and should never ever garner someone XP. I hate pizza delivery missions and that is all there are now in the post EQ-Wow games.
People forget that holding back hoards of creatures, blocking hallways while your team flees with their buffs falling, fighting shadows that have invaded your cities, exploring dungeons (Sometimes for hours!), loosing your body, going to some point on the map because you have never been there and have no clue what you will find, running for your life through forrests to try and reach a portal or lifestone...
These things were Asheron's Call. These things have never been in other games and if they are not going to be in AC3 then don't bother wasting our time.
I like a lot of your guys ideas in this thread...I just have one question....is there a leak somewhere about an AC3 being made or are we just having fun....don't tease me like this you bastages!
I remember backing myself into a corner so my back couldn't get hit while dozens of Othoi attacked me...Dozens and it was all in a days work. The overwhelming amount of mobs you had to fight and the frantic breakneck pacing of the combat was a blast. Jumping across a chasm was a completely viable and common escape from mobs.
No other MMO I have ever played had the level of freedom AC had. I miss the days of old AC when the world was alive with players.
But it had its share of crippling issues also. A quest journal would have been nice. If you were unable to play for a week or more who the frick could remember what the heck they were doing? Third party apps. The Doom of AC. Once they let these bad boys in bots were the order of the day. Buff bots, Trade bots, Portal bots, combat bots....the bot issue was pathetic and STILL to this day, Turbine has done nothing to improve the game to make the use of bots unnecessary. The interface is from Hell itself. The Chat system is total garbage, The magic system, while interesting, was about as easy to weild as a six foot long 2x4 in a knife fight. (especially in the days of 3 or 4 backpacks full of regents) It took upwards of 10 (ten) minutes for a party to buff up or re-buff. The Combat end of magic was "ok" but the utility end of it....yikes. No rez made death in a group a BIG pain in the ass as you had to get back to your party through the now respawned dungeon or whatever, sometimes it was impossible to get back because of doors or levers. And last but not least...the XP chains. These pretty much ruined the spirit of the game.
The salvage system was a great way to solve the loot vs crafted issue many MMO's have. Many games loot out weighs crafting. In AC you could modify much of your loot by using salvage from basically deconstructing other looted items making some really awesome stuff.
IMHO, IF there was an AC3 they would need to retain the sense of total freedom and excitement AC has but really smooth out the mechanics of the gameplay.
AC just needs a new graphic engine, new sounds but not different sounds (thedeath and combat screams were SO freaking funny... UGH UGH UGH from blunt arrows was great), and a new continent.
I hated hollow weapons and banes, I personaloly would do something with that.
I had a dream (pipe dream) of hitting the Powerball and buying the game, remaking it with FEW changes and calling it Asheron's Revenge.
hell, even a fresh PVP server would get me back to AC in a flash. Now, you just cant compete with 9-year maxed out characters.
heh,
Great days were these...
AC3
Lugians Tummeroks and Humans... great stuff.
Item drop on death = more forthought and better teamwork.
Vassal Patron system... Priceless needs an anti-exploit however.
Discovering spells/ recipes... Sets AC apart from everything.
Buffing... nothing like being prepared.
Botting ... ucm = bad, merchants, portals and buffers not that bad.
BoP items... Soulbinding an Item should cost a rediculous amount, and prevent that item from normal repairs.
Cities need to be more dynamic... areas should be guild claimable, other areas close by serve as hubs, merchants and such. "players should be able to make some money by buying in one town and selling in others, this should also subsidise player crafting" the more trade coming into a city the cheaper the mats are.
Eve like world
AOC like melee / combos
Cloth map, just like the old ultimas.
no coordinate system
instead of a quest log, have a search-able NPC chat log.
Items need description even though random. Like old time games , you pick up the longsword, it feels weightless the runes begin to glow as you handle it. upon drawing the blade to fend off the bunneh!!! forces and energies unknown lunge the sword into Bob your vassal. heh...