Of course such a game is never coming out, because no game will ever have every feature you like, and none fo the features you don't like. Even if you design it yourself it's not going to be like that because of budget and technology constraints.
really? so you don't think another game developer could make SWG PreNGE? hmm funny since that game was out already.
Because thats my ideal sandbox game (with obvious bug fixes and maybe drop the Star Wars name and Jedi)
No, do you? What are the chances that some developer is going to make an exact copy of SWG, only without Jedi?
my point was that the game was already made so the "technical constraints and budget" excuse is pretty much debunked.
Of course such a game is never coming out, because no game will ever have every feature you like, and none fo the features you don't like. Even if you design it yourself it's not going to be like that because of budget and technology constraints.
really? so you don't think another game developer could make SWG PreNGE? hmm funny since that game was out already.
Because thats my ideal sandbox game (with obvious bug fixes and maybe drop the Star Wars name and Jedi)
No, do you? What are the chances that some developer is going to make an exact copy of SWG, only without Jedi?
my point was that the game was already made so the "technical constraints and budget" excuse is pretty much debunked.
Well, you're rather missing the point. I doubt you personally will find the same budget used to make SWG, so that you can reconstruct it, minus the Star Wars IP and Jedi.
You're missing the fact that most MMORPGs don't get everything in their release they intended, even SWG, because they run out of money. I think SWG intended to have a few more features, and definitely more content before release, but like most projects they had a finite budget.
My point is, even if you were making an MMORPG, you too would have a finite budget, adn chances are you would have to stop development at some point before every feature, and all content you had originally designed was in the game. Even GOOD releases don't get to all the features and all the content they originally intended to put in the game. Even WoW didn't have all the features and content fthey had originally planned when they released.
The point is, we all have this idea of what the perfect game might be, and a lot of people call that perfect ideal a "sandbox", but there is no concrete definition of what a sandbox MMORPG is.
So there's no technical constraints for your perfect game. That's great. Someone else's ideal sandbox is not going to be an exact copy fo SWG, and it may indeed run into technical constraints.
I think SANDBOX has become a term which now means, my own personal game design.
That's why people like sandbox games, because when they use that term, they mean the game which has the features I like, and does not have the features I don't like.
For example, some people think a sandbox game must have skills not levels. Others think a sandbox game can just as easily have levels as skills. Neither one, skills or levels, makes a game a sandbox, or precludes it from being a sandbox. ...
Ppls like sandbox gameplay because of almost infinite freedom and the diverse gameplay because of this. Such games advance infinitely.
So in your perfect sandbox game, you can gain skill levels infinitely?
Wow Gill at 45 how can you be so clueless? Anywho I'm done there is no point trying to show you the error of your ways you cant even see the forest all you see is trees Sandbox=MY SIG and thats the end of that chapter!
Ok, I got that you looked and my profile and assumed the birthday there was accurate, but that's about it. The rest seems rather incoherent.
Of course such a game is never coming out, because no game will ever have every feature you like, and none fo the features you don't like. Even if you design it yourself it's not going to be like that because of budget and technology constraints.
really? so you don't think another game developer could make SWG PreNGE? hmm funny since that game was out already.
Because thats my ideal sandbox game (with obvious bug fixes and maybe drop the Star Wars name and Jedi)
No, do you? What are the chances that some developer is going to make an exact copy of SWG, only without Jedi?
my point was that the game was already made so the "technical constraints and budget" excuse is pretty much debunked.
Well, you're rather missing the point. I doubt you personally will find the same budget used to make SWG, so that you can reconstruct it, minus the Star Wars IP and Jedi.
You're missing the fact that most MMORPGs don't get everything in their release they intended, even SWG, because they run out of money. I think SWG intended to have a few more features, and definitely more content before release, but like most projects they had a finite budget.
My point is, even if you were making an MMORPG, you too would have a finite budget, adn chances are you would have to stop development at some point before every feature, and all content you had originally designed was in the game. Even GOOD releases don't get to all the features and all the content they originally intended to put in the game. Even WoW didn't have all the features and content fthey had originally planned when they released.
The point is, we all have this idea of what the perfect game might be, and a lot of people call that perfect ideal a "sandbox", but there is no concrete definition of what a sandbox MMORPG is.
So there's no technical constraints for your perfect game. That's great. Someone else's ideal sandbox is not going to be an exact copy fo SWG, and it may indeed run into technical constraints.
whether i could get the budget is irrelevant ... SWG was done, it was done quite a few years ago so it can be done.
as for your last statement, no shit someone elses vision might be different than mine did you figure that out all by yourself? I'll turn it around and say I think you are underestimating the technology out there. Hell a few years ago i didnt think MMOs would be possible then i heard of UO and EQ and was simply amazed. I never though you could have a online war of 300+ people yet Planetside did exactly that. And with the popularity the MMO genre has drawn I'm sure game companies will throw larger and larger budgets together.
Of course such a game is never coming out, because no game will ever have every feature you like, and none fo the features you don't like. Even if you design it yourself it's not going to be like that because of budget and technology constraints.
really? so you don't think another game developer could make SWG PreNGE? hmm funny since that game was out already.
Because thats my ideal sandbox game (with obvious bug fixes and maybe drop the Star Wars name and Jedi)
No, do you? What are the chances that some developer is going to make an exact copy of SWG, only without Jedi?
my point was that the game was already made so the "technical constraints and budget" excuse is pretty much debunked.
Well, you're rather missing the point. I doubt you personally will find the same budget used to make SWG, so that you can reconstruct it, minus the Star Wars IP and Jedi.
You're missing the fact that most MMORPGs don't get everything in their release they intended, even SWG, because they run out of money. I think SWG intended to have a few more features, and definitely more content before release, but like most projects they had a finite budget.
My point is, even if you were making an MMORPG, you too would have a finite budget, adn chances are you would have to stop development at some point before every feature, and all content you had originally designed was in the game. Even GOOD releases don't get to all the features and all the content they originally intended to put in the game. Even WoW didn't have all the features and content fthey had originally planned when they released.
The point is, we all have this idea of what the perfect game might be, and a lot of people call that perfect ideal a "sandbox", but there is no concrete definition of what a sandbox MMORPG is.
So there's no technical constraints for your perfect game. That's great. Someone else's ideal sandbox is not going to be an exact copy fo SWG, and it may indeed run into technical constraints.
whether i could get the budget is irrelevant ... SWG was done, it was done quite a few years ago so it can be done.
as for your last statement, no shit someone elses vision might be different than mine did you figure that out all by yourself? I'll turn it around and say I think you are underestimating the technology out there. Hell a few years ago i didnt think MMOs would be possible then i heard of UO and EQ and was simply amazed. I never though you could have a online war of 300+ people yet Planetside did exactly that. And with the popularity the MMO genre has drawn I'm sure game companies will throw larger and larger budgets together.
hell EVE is a sandbox and its doing very well.
Ok, congratulations.
You know exactly what you want, it's SWG without Jedi, adn that is considered a sand box game.
You are the exception to the rule, of people requesting sandbox games, but really just wanting a huge list of features they like, whether that make it necessarily a "sandbox" game or not, or people that think Darkfall will have every game mechanic they like, when we dont' actually know ANY of the game mechanics in Darkfall, because they aren't described anywhere at all.
You're right, it won't be hard to make a duplicate of SWG. Hopefully someone will do it. It seems like if you could do it with a reasonable budget you could do just fine, since you know there's at least a decent following out there for a game like that.
They dont want sandbox games, what they want is SWG or UO. There has been quite a few sandbox games released over the years, yet they dont play these games and whine how there isnt a game that caters to them.
Sandbox whiners go play in your sandboxes and stop complaining.
They dont want sandbox games, what they want is SWG or UO. There has been quite a few sandbox games released over the years, yet they dont play these games and whine how there isnt a game that caters to them. Sandbox whiners go play in your sandboxes and stop complaining.
That's because we want a brand spanking new AAA fantasy sandbox mmo not an old or bug ridden game.
We will stop complaining about it when someone releases one.
Of course such a game is never coming out, because no game will ever have every feature you like, and none fo the features you don't like. Even if you design it yourself it's not going to be like that because of budget and technology constraints.
really? so you don't think another game developer could make SWG PreNGE? hmm funny since that game was out already.
Because thats my ideal sandbox game (with obvious bug fixes and maybe drop the Star Wars name and Jedi)
No, do you? What are the chances that some developer is going to make an exact copy of SWG, only without Jedi?
my point was that the game was already made so the "technical constraints and budget" excuse is pretty much debunked.
Well, you're rather missing the point. I doubt you personally will find the same budget used to make SWG, so that you can reconstruct it, minus the Star Wars IP and Jedi.
You're missing the fact that most MMORPGs don't get everything in their release they intended, even SWG, because they run out of money. I think SWG intended to have a few more features, and definitely more content before release, but like most projects they had a finite budget.
My point is, even if you were making an MMORPG, you too would have a finite budget, adn chances are you would have to stop development at some point before every feature, and all content you had originally designed was in the game. Even GOOD releases don't get to all the features and all the content they originally intended to put in the game. Even WoW didn't have all the features and content fthey had originally planned when they released.
The point is, we all have this idea of what the perfect game might be, and a lot of people call that perfect ideal a "sandbox", but there is no concrete definition of what a sandbox MMORPG is.
So there's no technical constraints for your perfect game. That's great. Someone else's ideal sandbox is not going to be an exact copy fo SWG, and it may indeed run into technical constraints.
whether i could get the budget is irrelevant ... SWG was done, it was done quite a few years ago so it can be done.
as for your last statement, no shit someone elses vision might be different than mine did you figure that out all by yourself? I'll turn it around and say I think you are underestimating the technology out there. Hell a few years ago i didnt think MMOs would be possible then i heard of UO and EQ and was simply amazed. I never though you could have a online war of 300+ people yet Planetside did exactly that. And with the popularity the MMO genre has drawn I'm sure game companies will throw larger and larger budgets together.
hell EVE is a sandbox and its doing very well.
Ok, congratulations.
You know exactly what you want, it's SWG without Jedi, adn that is considered a sand box game.
You are the exception to the rule, of people requesting sandbox games, but really just wanting a huge list of features they like, whether that make it necessarily a "sandbox" game or not, or people that think Darkfall will have every game mechanic they like, when we dont' actually know ANY of the game mechanics in Darkfall, because they aren't described anywhere at all.
You're right, it won't be hard to make a duplicate of SWG. Hopefully someone will do it. It seems like if you could do it with a reasonable budget you could do just fine, since you know there's at least a decent following out there for a game like that.
Features do not a sandbox game make.
If you can't see past game mechanics / features you will never understand what sandbox means.
I think SANDBOX has become a term which now means, my own personal game design.
That's why people like sandbox games, because when they use that term, they mean the game which has the features I like, and does not have the features I don't like.
For example, some people think a sandbox game must have skills not levels. Others think a sandbox game can just as easily have levels as skills. Neither one, skills or levels, makes a game a sandbox, or precludes it from being a sandbox. ...
Ppls like sandbox gameplay because of almost infinite freedom and the diverse gameplay because of this. Such games advance infinitely.
So in your perfect sandbox game, you can gain skill levels infinitely?
OMG no, just check EvE and will see what I mean. Too sad its not in fantasy world , if it was thats the perfect sandbox game.
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration ______\m/_____ LordOfDarkDesire
It sounds like you don't quite get the concept of sandbox. The features you are describing are just fluff. Sandbox is a style game where the objectives are not predefined by the developer, you are given a world with some minimal predefined rulesets and you make your own game in it. Like a childs sandbox, which is just a box of sand, the actual game comes from the childs imagination and doesn't have a set objective such as Ludo for instance.
This is the most accurate definition of a sandbox game I heard so far. You nailed it!
It sounds like you don't quite get the concept of sandbox. The features you are describing are just fluff. Sandbox is a style game where the objectives are not predefined by the developer, you are given a world with some minimal predefined rulesets and you make your own game in it. Like a childs sandbox, which is just a box of sand, the actual game comes from the childs imagination and doesn't have a set objective such as Ludo for instance.
I never heard of Ludo, so I can't comment about that.
But I think YOU are missing the point that people on this forum are looking for a sandbox GAME, not just a sandbox.
A Game has to have some objective, or it's not a game. Posters on MMORPG.Com aren't just looking for a box of sand. If that was the cause, they'd be happy with Second Life.
Players are looking for a GAME to play in the sandbox, not just a sandbox with no game.
Nah I'm sorry a sandbox game is exactly what Blodpls described. It has nothing to do about "having all the features you want" or "being the perfect game".
It sounds like you don't quite get the concept of sandbox. The features you are describing are just fluff. Sandbox is a style game where the objectives are not predefined by the developer, you are given a world with some minimal predefined rulesets and you make your own game in it. Like a childs sandbox, which is just a box of sand, the actual game comes from the childs imagination and doesn't have a set objective such as Ludo for instance.
This is the most accurate definition of a sandbox game I heard so far. You nailed it!
I agree, this is a sandbox.
Most important feature to a sandbox MMO, in my opinion, is the city building. The cities, the settlements, the outposts, whichever.
Just like the Sand Castle in a sand box can be the focus of everyones attention, so too can city building in a sandbox MMO.
And in a game with no levels, or classes, the PvP combat, risk/reward system would be much more dynamic then many people have ever experienced.
No longer is the "gear" the number one objective, but location of settlements and cities, and what resources they control.
Imagine Shadowbane without any classes, or levels. Where the risk of randomly killing someone was greater then the reward. Thats pretty much a solid sandbox at that point.
"The public is wonderfully tolerant. It forgives everything except genius." -Oscar Wilde
Well I have personal experience in this comment because i played in sandboxes all the time as a kid! I think sandbox is sandbox, it is open ended, it has a set structure, but that set structure is very open and non-linear, allowing more roam, and more possibilities with those set "skills" or "levels" If the people think sandbox means, "What I personally want" than that is just a molded form of the at true sandbox is, that is asking for the specifics, like the little shovels or castle buckets, or maybe a tractor for the sandbox, yeah im talking about a actual sandbox right now. Thats just a interior design, and doesnt do the term "sandbox" any justice
Well I have personal experience in this comment because i played in sandboxes all the time as a kid! I think sandbox is sandbox, it is open ended, it has a set structure, but that set structure is very open and non-linear, allowing more roam, and more possibilities with those set "skills" or "levels" If the people think sandbox means, "What I personally want" than that is just a molded form of the at true sandbox is, that is asking for the specifics, like the little shovels or castle buckets, or maybe a tractor for the sandbox, yeah im talking about a actual sandbox right now. Thats just a interior design, and doesnt do the term "sandbox" any justice
Well I have personal experience in this comment because i played in sandboxes all the time as a kid! I think sandbox is sandbox, it is open ended, it has a set structure, but that set structure is very open and non-linear, allowing more roam, and more possibilities with those set "skills" or "levels" If the people think sandbox means, "What I personally want" than that is just a molded form of the at true sandbox is, that is asking for the specifics, like the little shovels or castle buckets, or maybe a tractor for the sandbox, yeah im talking about a actual sandbox right now. Thats just a interior design, and doesnt do the term "sandbox" any justice
Cute and true .
I love Denshing's post and love blodpls's post on page one and totally agree. A sandbox game for me is a game that im not forced to take a certain path, i can be creative as much as i want like in a real sandbox, i dont have to make a castle i can make a fraking mound if i want. Yes there will be objectives and quests but you dont have to do them, there will be a set story you can follow or you could take your own path and just chill like in a sandbox once again* you can use the shovel but you can also use your hands. Another thing in a sandbox game would be that there is little restriction but not a hole lot like the walls of a sandbox.
Also when I read everybodies posts on here they all talk about freedom, but in different ways so if I were to describe a Sandbox game by sayings its freedom then I would be incorrect because what one persons description of freedom is different from anothers description. And in a real sandbox how could you call that free, when I use to play in the sandbox there were rules like no throwing sand at the neighbors or dont play with the water in the sandbox.
Everyones description of a sandbox is there own or someone elses it doesn't matter but I think people should stop, and actually ask them selves,"Why do they call it a fraking SANDBOX in the first place?" and then they might have a better idea to what a sandbox game really is. Also you see posts like sandbox games have skill no classes or visa versa or i want housing or a sandbox is what i want and not what I dont want. If you ask me thats pretty childish...lol like a sandbox loljk.
------------------------------ END ------------------------------ (names used in previous games) -Desitre -Desiboy -Verra -Auroras Borealis -Scaven ------------------------------ looking forward to... Bioware's MMORPG Stargate ------------------------------
Sandbox is what all MMORPGs should be. IMO its what makes the genre unique. When you log onto a server it should be completely different than the one you usually play on. The players should shape the environment. I think Oblivion is a good example of what a sandbox could be. You could have a linear path of quests and such like most games but you could also have fun and never even do one single quest.
Sandbox is what all MMORPGs should be. IMO its what makes the genre unique. When you log onto a server it should be completely different than the one you usually play on. The players should shape the environment. I think Oblivion is a good example of what a sandbox could be. You could have a linear path of quests and such like most games but you could also have fun and never even do one single quest.
Oblivion isn't a sandbox game.
You become leader of the mage guild, kill the necromancer leader and your effect on the world is zero and there are still necromancers running around oblivious to the fact that their great leader is dead.
If it were really a sandbox game, and you wanted to be the leader of the "mage's guild" you wouldn't have to do Quest A followed by Quest B followed by Quest C followed by Quest D E F G H I J K L... You could create an uprising among the necromancers to overthrow the mage's guild leader, or you could just go around killing mages until the mage's guild can't take it anymore and they accept you as leader.
It's a questing game. Sure the spell crafting is great, and the NPC scripting is better, and the graphics are beautiful but it is NOT a sandbox game.
I think SANDBOX has become a term which now means, my own personal game design.
That's why people like sandbox games, because when they use that term, they mean the game which has the features I like, and does not have the features I don't like.
For example, some people think a sandbox game must have skills not levels. Others think a sandbox game can just as easily have levels as skills. Neither one, skills or levels, makes a game a sandbox, or precludes it from being a sandbox. Or, some people like games when you do something over and over and that increases your skill, like I swing my sword a million times, my sword swinging skill gets better. And THAT's what they mean by "sandbox". Other people think there should be FFA PvP everywhere, and THAT makes a sandbox. Others think it's about the ability to build a house anywhere, or craft everything in the game, or no NpC's and a completely player based economy. When someone says, I'm waiting on DarkFall because I like a Sandbox game, what they mean is this. Darkfall doesn't describe any of it's game mechanics, and no one has ever played it, so you don't know what htey are.
So, if you like skills that increase with use, well, I'll just imagine Darkfall has that. If you like skill points you can spend, I'll just imagine Darkfall has that. If you like to be able to build a "tank mage" I'll just imagine Darkfall has that. If you think you shouldn't be able to build a "tank Mage" I'll imagine there are game mechanics that prevent that. Basically, I'll just imagine whatever features I like, and I'll think they are in Darkfall. Whatever features I personally don't like, I"ll imagine they are not in Darkfall. Therefore, it's always going to be the perfect game, because it will always have whatever you like, and none of what you don't like. And that's what "sandbox" means now. A game that has everything I personally like, and nothing I personally don't like. Of course such a game is never coming out, because no game will ever have every feature you like, and none fo the features you don't like. Even if you design it yourself it's not going to be like that because of budget and technology constraints.
Sandbox is what all MMORPGs should be. IMO its what makes the genre unique. When you log onto a server it should be completely different than the one you usually play on. The players should shape the environment. I think Oblivion is a good example of what a sandbox could be. You could have a linear path of quests and such like most games but you could also have fun and never even do one single quest.
Oblivion isn't a sandbox game.
You become leader of the mage guild, kill the necromancer leader and your effect on the world is zero and there are still necromancers running around oblivious to the fact that their great leader is dead.
If it were really a sandbox game, and you wanted to be the leader of the "mage's guild" you wouldn't have to do Quest A followed by Quest B followed by Quest C followed by Quest D E F G H I J K L... You could create an uprising among the necromancers to overthrow the mage's guild leader, or you could just go around killing mages until the mage's guild can't take it anymore and they accept you as leader.
It's a questing game. Sure the spell crafting is great, and the NPC scripting is better, and the graphics are beautiful but it is NOT a sandbox game.
I think this shows how people focus on different areas of gameplay, when referring to a "sandbox" game.
Some people focus on the world, and being able to change the world, like in this example overthrowing the Mages guild and becoming it's new leader, or destroying it, or making it the most powerful guild in the world, etc.
Other people focus on their character, which is why they think only games with "skills" are a sandbox, so they can shoot lightening spells, wear armor, wield a sword, turn invisible, fish, and build a boat.
But if you're focused on the world, obviously you could overturn the mages guild even if you couldn't turn invisible or fish.
It sounds like you don't quite get the concept of sandbox. The features you are describing are just fluff. Sandbox is a style game where the objectives are not predefined by the developer, you are given a world with some minimal predefined rulesets and you make your own game in it. Like a childs sandbox, which is just a box of sand, the actual game comes from the childs imagination and doesn't have a set objective such as Ludo for instance.
I never heard of Ludo, so I can't comment about that.
But I think YOU are missing the point that people on this forum are looking for a sandbox GAME, not just a sandbox.
A Game has to have some objective, or it's not a game. Posters on MMORPG.Com aren't just looking for a box of sand. If that was the cause, they'd be happy with Second Life.
Players are looking for a GAME to play in the sandbox, not just a sandbox with no game.
Nah I'm sorry a sandbox game is exactly what Blodpls described. It has nothing to do about "having all the features you want" or "being the perfect game".
Then it already exists. It's called Second Life. But that has no appeal for me. If you can do ANYTHING, then there's no game.
For me its about freedom. And i think you need to have skills in a sandbox MMO for that. This is why: In SWG, my gf played a entertainer. She worked with house interiour and disigning clothes. And thanks to a skillsystem, she could do that from day one. And didnt have to kill one mob. She was not interested in the of the other parts of the game, and dint have to play them. So i mreally agree with the OP. With sandbox you can pick the parts you like, without beeing forced to play everything (as in a level system).
IMO, it wouldn't make any difference if there were skills or classes. Some could just play an entertainer class, instead of picking entertainer skills.
If you can get ALL skills, then everyone will be exactly the same, because everyone will have ALL skills. That means you can't be anything you want, it means theres' really only one type of character, the type with all the skills in the game, and that's what every single player will be.
If you can't get ALL skills, then you end up with templates, which aren't any different than classes really, especially the way MMO's are doing the hybrid classes these days, like in City of Heroes, or in WAR.
Templates are nothing as classes. If there is 1000 skills in a game, and you can pick maybe 150. Then you can use the skills to build an almost uniqe character with 106 skills. The other 44 you dont even need...if you dont want to.
And what about everyone will be the same?? Thats lame thinking. Thats as saying everyone want s to be a crafter/soldier/priest/medic/archer/pirate/clown or whatever. People play whatever they want in sandbox MMOs. And they are free to ignore the rest.
And if my gf had played a entertainer class, she wouldent be able to get involved with some soldiers in a manhunt if she wanted to.
Comments
really? so you don't think another game developer could make SWG PreNGE? hmm funny since that game was out already.
Because thats my ideal sandbox game (with obvious bug fixes and maybe drop the Star Wars name and Jedi)
No, do you? What are the chances that some developer is going to make an exact copy of SWG, only without Jedi?
my point was that the game was already made so the "technical constraints and budget" excuse is pretty much debunked.
really? so you don't think another game developer could make SWG PreNGE? hmm funny since that game was out already.
Because thats my ideal sandbox game (with obvious bug fixes and maybe drop the Star Wars name and Jedi)
No, do you? What are the chances that some developer is going to make an exact copy of SWG, only without Jedi?
my point was that the game was already made so the "technical constraints and budget" excuse is pretty much debunked.
Well, you're rather missing the point. I doubt you personally will find the same budget used to make SWG, so that you can reconstruct it, minus the Star Wars IP and Jedi.
You're missing the fact that most MMORPGs don't get everything in their release they intended, even SWG, because they run out of money. I think SWG intended to have a few more features, and definitely more content before release, but like most projects they had a finite budget.
My point is, even if you were making an MMORPG, you too would have a finite budget, adn chances are you would have to stop development at some point before every feature, and all content you had originally designed was in the game. Even GOOD releases don't get to all the features and all the content they originally intended to put in the game. Even WoW didn't have all the features and content fthey had originally planned when they released.
The point is, we all have this idea of what the perfect game might be, and a lot of people call that perfect ideal a "sandbox", but there is no concrete definition of what a sandbox MMORPG is.
So there's no technical constraints for your perfect game. That's great. Someone else's ideal sandbox is not going to be an exact copy fo SWG, and it may indeed run into technical constraints.
Ppls like sandbox gameplay because of almost infinite freedom and the diverse gameplay because of this. Such games advance infinitely.
So in your perfect sandbox game, you can gain skill levels infinitely?
Ok, I got that you looked and my profile and assumed the birthday there was accurate, but that's about it. The rest seems rather incoherent.
really? so you don't think another game developer could make SWG PreNGE? hmm funny since that game was out already.
Because thats my ideal sandbox game (with obvious bug fixes and maybe drop the Star Wars name and Jedi)
No, do you? What are the chances that some developer is going to make an exact copy of SWG, only without Jedi?
my point was that the game was already made so the "technical constraints and budget" excuse is pretty much debunked.
Well, you're rather missing the point. I doubt you personally will find the same budget used to make SWG, so that you can reconstruct it, minus the Star Wars IP and Jedi.
You're missing the fact that most MMORPGs don't get everything in their release they intended, even SWG, because they run out of money. I think SWG intended to have a few more features, and definitely more content before release, but like most projects they had a finite budget.
My point is, even if you were making an MMORPG, you too would have a finite budget, adn chances are you would have to stop development at some point before every feature, and all content you had originally designed was in the game. Even GOOD releases don't get to all the features and all the content they originally intended to put in the game. Even WoW didn't have all the features and content fthey had originally planned when they released.
The point is, we all have this idea of what the perfect game might be, and a lot of people call that perfect ideal a "sandbox", but there is no concrete definition of what a sandbox MMORPG is.
So there's no technical constraints for your perfect game. That's great. Someone else's ideal sandbox is not going to be an exact copy fo SWG, and it may indeed run into technical constraints.
whether i could get the budget is irrelevant ... SWG was done, it was done quite a few years ago so it can be done.
as for your last statement, no shit someone elses vision might be different than mine did you figure that out all by yourself? I'll turn it around and say I think you are underestimating the technology out there. Hell a few years ago i didnt think MMOs would be possible then i heard of UO and EQ and was simply amazed. I never though you could have a online war of 300+ people yet Planetside did exactly that. And with the popularity the MMO genre has drawn I'm sure game companies will throw larger and larger budgets together.
hell EVE is a sandbox and its doing very well.
really? so you don't think another game developer could make SWG PreNGE? hmm funny since that game was out already.
Because thats my ideal sandbox game (with obvious bug fixes and maybe drop the Star Wars name and Jedi)
No, do you? What are the chances that some developer is going to make an exact copy of SWG, only without Jedi?
my point was that the game was already made so the "technical constraints and budget" excuse is pretty much debunked.
Well, you're rather missing the point. I doubt you personally will find the same budget used to make SWG, so that you can reconstruct it, minus the Star Wars IP and Jedi.
You're missing the fact that most MMORPGs don't get everything in their release they intended, even SWG, because they run out of money. I think SWG intended to have a few more features, and definitely more content before release, but like most projects they had a finite budget.
My point is, even if you were making an MMORPG, you too would have a finite budget, adn chances are you would have to stop development at some point before every feature, and all content you had originally designed was in the game. Even GOOD releases don't get to all the features and all the content they originally intended to put in the game. Even WoW didn't have all the features and content fthey had originally planned when they released.
The point is, we all have this idea of what the perfect game might be, and a lot of people call that perfect ideal a "sandbox", but there is no concrete definition of what a sandbox MMORPG is.
So there's no technical constraints for your perfect game. That's great. Someone else's ideal sandbox is not going to be an exact copy fo SWG, and it may indeed run into technical constraints.
whether i could get the budget is irrelevant ... SWG was done, it was done quite a few years ago so it can be done.
as for your last statement, no shit someone elses vision might be different than mine did you figure that out all by yourself? I'll turn it around and say I think you are underestimating the technology out there. Hell a few years ago i didnt think MMOs would be possible then i heard of UO and EQ and was simply amazed. I never though you could have a online war of 300+ people yet Planetside did exactly that. And with the popularity the MMO genre has drawn I'm sure game companies will throw larger and larger budgets together.
hell EVE is a sandbox and its doing very well.
Ok, congratulations.
You know exactly what you want, it's SWG without Jedi, adn that is considered a sand box game.
You are the exception to the rule, of people requesting sandbox games, but really just wanting a huge list of features they like, whether that make it necessarily a "sandbox" game or not, or people that think Darkfall will have every game mechanic they like, when we dont' actually know ANY of the game mechanics in Darkfall, because they aren't described anywhere at all.
You're right, it won't be hard to make a duplicate of SWG. Hopefully someone will do it. It seems like if you could do it with a reasonable budget you could do just fine, since you know there's at least a decent following out there for a game like that.
They dont want sandbox games, what they want is SWG or UO. There has been quite a few sandbox games released over the years, yet they dont play these games and whine how there isnt a game that caters to them.
Sandbox whiners go play in your sandboxes and stop complaining.
That's because we want a brand spanking new AAA fantasy sandbox mmo not an old or bug ridden game.
We will stop complaining about it when someone releases one.
really? so you don't think another game developer could make SWG PreNGE? hmm funny since that game was out already.
Because thats my ideal sandbox game (with obvious bug fixes and maybe drop the Star Wars name and Jedi)
No, do you? What are the chances that some developer is going to make an exact copy of SWG, only without Jedi?
my point was that the game was already made so the "technical constraints and budget" excuse is pretty much debunked.
Well, you're rather missing the point. I doubt you personally will find the same budget used to make SWG, so that you can reconstruct it, minus the Star Wars IP and Jedi.
You're missing the fact that most MMORPGs don't get everything in their release they intended, even SWG, because they run out of money. I think SWG intended to have a few more features, and definitely more content before release, but like most projects they had a finite budget.
My point is, even if you were making an MMORPG, you too would have a finite budget, adn chances are you would have to stop development at some point before every feature, and all content you had originally designed was in the game. Even GOOD releases don't get to all the features and all the content they originally intended to put in the game. Even WoW didn't have all the features and content fthey had originally planned when they released.
The point is, we all have this idea of what the perfect game might be, and a lot of people call that perfect ideal a "sandbox", but there is no concrete definition of what a sandbox MMORPG is.
So there's no technical constraints for your perfect game. That's great. Someone else's ideal sandbox is not going to be an exact copy fo SWG, and it may indeed run into technical constraints.
whether i could get the budget is irrelevant ... SWG was done, it was done quite a few years ago so it can be done.
as for your last statement, no shit someone elses vision might be different than mine did you figure that out all by yourself? I'll turn it around and say I think you are underestimating the technology out there. Hell a few years ago i didnt think MMOs would be possible then i heard of UO and EQ and was simply amazed. I never though you could have a online war of 300+ people yet Planetside did exactly that. And with the popularity the MMO genre has drawn I'm sure game companies will throw larger and larger budgets together.
hell EVE is a sandbox and its doing very well.
Ok, congratulations.
You know exactly what you want, it's SWG without Jedi, adn that is considered a sand box game.
You are the exception to the rule, of people requesting sandbox games, but really just wanting a huge list of features they like, whether that make it necessarily a "sandbox" game or not, or people that think Darkfall will have every game mechanic they like, when we dont' actually know ANY of the game mechanics in Darkfall, because they aren't described anywhere at all.
You're right, it won't be hard to make a duplicate of SWG. Hopefully someone will do it. It seems like if you could do it with a reasonable budget you could do just fine, since you know there's at least a decent following out there for a game like that.
Features do not a sandbox game make.
If you can't see past game mechanics / features you will never understand what sandbox means.
Ppls like sandbox gameplay because of almost infinite freedom and the diverse gameplay because of this. Such games advance infinitely.
So in your perfect sandbox game, you can gain skill levels infinitely?
OMG no, just check EvE and will see what I mean. Too sad its not in fantasy world
, if it was thats the perfect sandbox game.
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration
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LordOfDarkDesire
This is the most accurate definition of a sandbox game I heard so far. You nailed it!
I think your misunderstanding the real definition of a sandbox.
What can you create in a sandbox? Anything you can imagine
Risk, freedom, reward, player driven content = endless possibilities
Although if you have no imagination whatsoever then go play a game where someone holds your hand.
I never heard of Ludo, so I can't comment about that.
But I think YOU are missing the point that people on this forum are looking for a sandbox GAME, not just a sandbox.
A Game has to have some objective, or it's not a game. Posters on MMORPG.Com aren't just looking for a box of sand. If that was the cause, they'd be happy with Second Life.
Players are looking for a GAME to play in the sandbox, not just a sandbox with no game.
Nah I'm sorry a sandbox game is exactly what Blodpls described. It has nothing to do about "having all the features you want" or "being the perfect game".
This is the most accurate definition of a sandbox game I heard so far. You nailed it!
I agree, this is a sandbox.
Most important feature to a sandbox MMO, in my opinion, is the city building. The cities, the settlements, the outposts, whichever.
Just like the Sand Castle in a sand box can be the focus of everyones attention, so too can city building in a sandbox MMO.
And in a game with no levels, or classes, the PvP combat, risk/reward system would be much more dynamic then many people have ever experienced.
No longer is the "gear" the number one objective, but location of settlements and cities, and what resources they control.
Imagine Shadowbane without any classes, or levels. Where the risk of randomly killing someone was greater then the reward. Thats pretty much a solid sandbox at that point.
"The public is wonderfully tolerant. It forgives everything except genius."
-Oscar Wilde
Well I have personal experience in this comment because i played in sandboxes all the time as a kid! I think sandbox is sandbox, it is open ended, it has a set structure, but that set structure is very open and non-linear, allowing more roam, and more possibilities with those set "skills" or "levels" If the people think sandbox means, "What I personally want" than that is just a molded form of the at true sandbox is, that is asking for the specifics, like the little shovels or castle buckets, or maybe a tractor for the sandbox, yeah im talking about a actual sandbox right now. Thats just a interior design, and doesnt do the term "sandbox" any justice
I love Denshing's post and love blodpls's post on page one and totally agree. A sandbox game for me is a game that im not forced to take a certain path, i can be creative as much as i want like in a real sandbox, i dont have to make a castle i can make a fraking mound if i want. Yes there will be objectives and quests but you dont have to do them, there will be a set story you can follow or you could take your own path and just chill like in a sandbox once again* you can use the shovel but you can also use your hands. Another thing in a sandbox game would be that there is little restriction but not a hole lot like the walls of a sandbox.
Also when I read everybodies posts on here they all talk about freedom, but in different ways so if I were to describe a Sandbox game by sayings its freedom then I would be incorrect because what one persons description of freedom is different from anothers description. And in a real sandbox how could you call that free, when I use to play in the sandbox there were rules like no throwing sand at the neighbors or dont play with the water in the sandbox.
Everyones description of a sandbox is there own or someone elses it doesn't matter but I think people should stop, and actually ask them selves,"Why do they call it a fraking SANDBOX in the first place?" and then they might have a better idea to what a sandbox game really is. Also you see posts like sandbox games have skill no classes or visa versa or i want housing or a sandbox is what i want and not what I dont want. If you ask me thats pretty childish...lol like a sandbox loljk.
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END
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(names used in previous games)
-Desitre -Desiboy -Verra -Auroras Borealis -Scaven
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looking forward to...
Bioware's MMORPG
Stargate
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If i can build my own world then its a sandbox.
Oblivion isn't a sandbox game.
You become leader of the mage guild, kill the necromancer leader and your effect on the world is zero and there are still necromancers running around oblivious to the fact that their great leader is dead.
If it were really a sandbox game, and you wanted to be the leader of the "mage's guild" you wouldn't have to do Quest A followed by Quest B followed by Quest C followed by Quest D E F G H I J K L... You could create an uprising among the necromancers to overthrow the mage's guild leader, or you could just go around killing mages until the mage's guild can't take it anymore and they accept you as leader.
It's a questing game. Sure the spell crafting is great, and the NPC scripting is better, and the graphics are beautiful but it is NOT a sandbox game.
Asheron's Call 1 is the best sandbox MMORPG
Oblivion isn't a sandbox game.
You become leader of the mage guild, kill the necromancer leader and your effect on the world is zero and there are still necromancers running around oblivious to the fact that their great leader is dead.
If it were really a sandbox game, and you wanted to be the leader of the "mage's guild" you wouldn't have to do Quest A followed by Quest B followed by Quest C followed by Quest D E F G H I J K L... You could create an uprising among the necromancers to overthrow the mage's guild leader, or you could just go around killing mages until the mage's guild can't take it anymore and they accept you as leader.
It's a questing game. Sure the spell crafting is great, and the NPC scripting is better, and the graphics are beautiful but it is NOT a sandbox game.
I think this shows how people focus on different areas of gameplay, when referring to a "sandbox" game.
Some people focus on the world, and being able to change the world, like in this example overthrowing the Mages guild and becoming it's new leader, or destroying it, or making it the most powerful guild in the world, etc.
Other people focus on their character, which is why they think only games with "skills" are a sandbox, so they can shoot lightening spells, wear armor, wield a sword, turn invisible, fish, and build a boat.
But if you're focused on the world, obviously you could overturn the mages guild even if you couldn't turn invisible or fish.
I never heard of Ludo, so I can't comment about that.
But I think YOU are missing the point that people on this forum are looking for a sandbox GAME, not just a sandbox.
A Game has to have some objective, or it's not a game. Posters on MMORPG.Com aren't just looking for a box of sand. If that was the cause, they'd be happy with Second Life.
Players are looking for a GAME to play in the sandbox, not just a sandbox with no game.
Nah I'm sorry a sandbox game is exactly what Blodpls described. It has nothing to do about "having all the features you want" or "being the perfect game".
Then it already exists. It's called Second Life. But that has no appeal for me. If you can do ANYTHING, then there's no game.
I like PvP games. It would be fun to see a design that works well, where the players determine the factions, instead of RvR.
I suppose they've done that already in EVE, but unfortunately I don't want to play a game as a spaceship.
I also don't like the idea of gaining power just for subscribing, like in EVE. I'd rather you only gained power when you played the game.
IMO, it wouldn't make any difference if there were skills or classes. Some could just play an entertainer class, instead of picking entertainer skills.
If you can get ALL skills, then everyone will be exactly the same, because everyone will have ALL skills. That means you can't be anything you want, it means theres' really only one type of character, the type with all the skills in the game, and that's what every single player will be.
If you can't get ALL skills, then you end up with templates, which aren't any different than classes really, especially the way MMO's are doing the hybrid classes these days, like in City of Heroes, or in WAR.
Templates are nothing as classes. If there is 1000 skills in a game, and you can pick maybe 150. Then you can use the skills to build an almost uniqe character with 106 skills. The other 44 you dont even need...if you dont want to.
And what about everyone will be the same?? Thats lame thinking. Thats as saying everyone want s to be a crafter/soldier/priest/medic/archer/pirate/clown or whatever. People play whatever they want in sandbox MMOs. And they are free to ignore the rest.
And if my gf had played a entertainer class, she wouldent be able to get involved with some soldiers in a manhunt if she wanted to.