Interesting article that I will be sure to follow. I have not read ALL of the responses to this yet that are posted above me but a few things did catch my eye. First of all, my experience with EQ2 has been mostly very enjoyable. Those that complain that its too easy , stating it doesn't take long to level etc cannot possibly be playing the actual game. Anytime you spend all of your time grinding to lvl without enjoying the storyline behind the quests that you are doing you will lvl fast and miss the game. This is with any MMO or RPG or whatever out there. To these people I would wholeheartedly suggest they find a different kind of game. One they can finish and move on while still being somewhat sociable. I'm a lore freak. I love to read about what I am doing and immerse myself in the game. I fancy myself a writer and use my characters in EQ2 to help me work out storylines. This is my enjoyment. I've been playing EQ2 well over 3 years now. I am never borad unless I go over the same material too many time with several toons but I need to is look forward and SOE never disappoints with bringing in new content on a regular basis. To those looking for "end-game" , I don't see one in sight. To sum up Everquest 2's pluses and some small comparisons to WoW I have this to say; EQ2 is less cartoony in appearance providing a more enjoyable atmosphere for those of us who are not only older (30+) but hungry for a more "real fantasy" not a place that constantly reminds us we are in a game. We go to Norrath to escape the "grind" of our actual lives one we can control the outcomes somewhat better then our literal worlds but provides that fantasy element. I thought that was the whole point of a game. I could be wrong. The lore of EQ2 is quite vast and fascinating with some excellent writers behind the wheel. The content is constantly being worked up and expansions are almost yearly. Amazing graphics. The RoK expansion has some of the most memorable and well done sunrises and sunsets. They would rival the real world. EQ2 is not a hollow game there is stability behind the visual but There are always going to be problems and things a handful of people will complain about constantly but I find these are mostly younger new generation gamers. I would hope to educate my grandchildren better. My own personal complaints are small but do tend to irritate me as I RP my way through life. Why , for instance, can we not better interact without environments? Example; sitting in chairs. Were we able to actually do something more then look at the massive amounts of graphics in this area and arrange it like doll houses more people would gather together instead drifting past each other. There would be more of a point. Why doesn't Sony advertise better? I see Wow on every shelf even though it has so little content in comparison. It is difficult to back my own point of view to my friends and family when they can't even find the game anywhere let alone a single commercial. The media is battered and fired with world of warcraft. This alone infuriates me. This comment is turning into an article by itself so I will end it here. I'm sorry that you stumbled across the worst of Eq2's population, squeeky wheels that they are. I am with Marron up there when he/she said the following ; "because the majority of players do not want to lose an hour of playing time rebuilding their character due to an egregious death penalty. This silent majority is too busy playing and enjoying the game to post up on the forums (generally).' That would be me. You can find me on Oasis server. Say hello to Fallcon or Dawnrazor, just a razor slice of sunshine.
Well said my friend. I wish I had a character slot left I would love to explore Norrath with you.
Why does anyone hate EQ2? Overflow of hate from a mistake made by SOE/LEC. If the changes to EQ2 were made not under the shadow of the failings of SWG, then it would be no where near as strong. The changes might even be acceptable.
I agree. I was scratching my head when I read this article. It almost seems, nowadays, to simply hate SOE because its the "in' thing to do. EQ2, in my opinion, is a solid game with tons of content and can cater to the casual or the hardcore player at the same time.
What's funny to see is that before the NGE came along, EA was seen by many as the MMO devil with its killing of MMO titles and looked to SOE and EQ as the standard. Now the folks that hate SOE are looking to EA/Bioware to be their "savior" with their up and coming MMO. Funny how it comes full circle.
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
If you are among the crowd long enough you realize one thing: no matter what you do in the internet, there will always be jerks. I ignore them. Debating with people who are psychologically fixated in projecting all their hate and RL frustration on one object, in this case SOE, cant be argued with. It is a mental problem, and they need a therapist. Its a reflex, a programm. There is not talking to them. I know. I tried.
SOE is objective not a better or worse game company than any others. Period.
If anyone should hate SOE I should. Let's see; one of the first master Jedi on corbantis server...
This post has more truth in it than even the author probably realizes. This sense of entitlement is why people hate SOE, and yes, most of it is residue from what happened with SWG, tied together with the all too common misconception that this world and the people in it owe you something. The fact that this player, and thousands more like him, hang on to their 'accomplishments' (if you can call holo-grinding or village-grinding a Jedi an accomplishment) prior to the NGE like they're some sort of badge of honor is indicative of a mindset that is either unwilling or unable to adapt to change, and unable to comprehend basic fact that sometimes life sucks.
Yes, what SOE did to SWG was brutal, and ultimately unnecessary. Yes, those of us that were there from the beginning (and even those who came later) all lost something, whether it was time, friendships, money, or all of the above. What a lot of people also lost was their dignity, and their common sense, as they now hop from one forum to the next, foaming at the mouth towards anyone who doesn't agree that Sony is the anti-Christ.
I'm glad this poster that I quoted can at least separate EQ2 from what happened to his characters in SWG, but the way he begins his post is unfortunately a common thread that runs amok amongst the hordes of pissed off SWG vets who continue to feel urinated on by the gods because they lost their precious Elder Jedi and whatever else.
Sony has made some good games, and may even make a few more, no matter how much certain folks may wish otherwise. This is not coming from a Sony fanboy, although I'm sure those charges will be leveled shortly, but rather from someone who was burned by SWG, but was also able to move on, adapt, and not QQ about it for the next three years.
To the original poster, good luck navigating the hate if you choose to play, or write about, SOE games. I'm afraid it will always be there unless these SWG vets suffer a sudden breakout of common sense, as internet forums bring out the absolute worst in people more often than not.
I stopped reading after I noted a trend and I started counting.
SWG HAS BEEN MENTIONED 30 TIMES
Now maybe I'm the crazy one, but this was an article about EQ2. What I see happens is people burned from SWG laying blanket statements down about SOE ruining everything else. So fine. Lets talk SWG. I was a Bio Engineer and Creature Handler I was two professions that no longer exsisted when the NGE came out. I was mad and I quit that day.
But I wasn't so blinded by rage (Remember, it is a game) To realize two points. The team that makes SWG does not make EQ2. And I'm not even angry at the EQ2 team, they were doing what was told. LA was the one that wanted a carbon copy of World of Warcraft, they saw the numbers, LA wanted a piece of that. Lucasarts is far from innocent of exploiting a game and making a game for the garunteed profit "Star Wars" will bring in, no matter how good (or bad) it is.
So four years later players still complain about the evils of SOE. The evils which basically translate to one event that was more likely an act of Lucasarts then SOE. I moved on, I play EverQuest 2 and I enjoy it.
Your right that quote does do the trick, except not how you put it. Orginally EQ2 was its own game and was something people liked, then SOE decided they wanted money, obvious I suppose. Playing the game now feels dirty and unnatural. I Logged in and felt as if I was playing a very very shity WoW mod. Its sad that SOE ruined such a great game.
Maybe EQ3 will come one day and make its own mark.
EQ2 had it s niche game then decided when it was losing subs to WoW that they would incorporate ideas that WoW had in hopes that it would lead players to its game......The end result was a greatly dumbed down version of the original EQ2.......The one thing I learned when I played EQ1 was that SOE is definitely a business and they are in it for the money only......Most changes they make are for the benefit of the company not for the player.......I have to agree with the poster I quoted in that EQ2 now feels like your playing a bad WoW version.....Pretty much everything is soloable and the group content is too easy...... EQ2 was originally aimed at the more hardcore player but now is geared for the casual.
I am an exceptionally outspoken SOE "hater" if you want to call me that. I am frequently the first to bash the posts I find here, and my opinions are harsh and to the point...But first let me give you a little background about myself and my MMO history with SOE games..
I am male, 45 years old, own my own I.T. company and love gaming...My wife also plays MMOs. Currently we have 2 station access passes and bounce between EQ1 and EQ2. We did try Vangard for a short time and found it dissapointing. That was not SOEs fault and I have never bashed SOE for it. ....
I have been Playing SOE games (well Verant/989 games) since 1999 with the release of EQ1. I was a senior guide in the EQ1 guide program until SOE allowed the head of the program to grow power hungry and pissed off most of the guides to the point they left. Still, after that I LOVED SOE...I attended 6 EQ Fanfaires, I lived for the game. Finally after 5 years of playing hundreds of hours a month I took a break (at the release of PoP). When I returned 6 months later I found that many of my friends had become dis enchanted with the game because they were being forced to play for flags that only raiders could obtain. The game had become very linear and many people were pulling the plug. Some went to Dark Ages of Camelot, some waited for the release of EQ2. I continued to play until EQ2 release and then switched. Right from the start I knew EQ2 was going to be different...Not bad, just not the same...It was not as exciting as the first time I made my first EQ1 Barbarian Warrior and logged into Halas....But non the less I was going to give it a chance to win me over. I joined a casual guild, I made friends, I joined the community and learned how to tweak my toons...Still, it took me weeks to attain level 35 with my first character. During this time SOE was answering a lot of questions about the future of the game, what we could expect, and they were fixing a lot of bugs...One of the things that excited me the most was Smed's promise of 4-5 adventure packs per year and at least 2 expansions, with the level cap increasing to 100 within 2 years...WOW!! with a world growing at that rate we would never get bored and there would always be new content to explore! What a disappointment when it didn't happen....
Then the game started to morph....spirt shards were removed, trade skills were made a bit easier, almost all equipment was made attunable, classes were nerfed, sub classes were removed....It was clear that the game was being made easier....still it was fun...But we weren't seeing the promised adventure packs and expansions at the rate they were promised and when expansions and adventure packs were released, a large portion was rehashed NPC models and it was clear very little imagination was going into the development.
Server populations began to dwindle. There was a server merger after a little more than a year....compared to EQ1 that didn't not have a server merger due to declining player base until after the release of EQ2....basically almost 6 years...it was clear that players were dis-enchanted....still SOE did little to nothing to stop the exodus. Almost no advertising outside of gamer publications. A trip to the local software monger would show very few stores were even carrying EQ2 and it's expansions. Even when new expansions were released, stores like Best Buy and EB Games had limited numbers on hand. When I went to buy the retail box of KoS I had to go to 3 different Best Buys to get 2 copies. I was told that they only ordered 10 per store....I live in a very large metro area with 7 best buys within 30 minutes in any direction of me...So for 4 million people there were 70 copies??? And SOE wonders why they have so few players?
Then the price went up...WAY up....$30 a month for station passes....We were already paying $25 a month just so we could have more toon slots....The lack thereof was enough to agrivate a lot of people, SOEs unwillingness to give us more smacked of greed, and their excuse of not having enough disk space or data base storage just angered us more, because it just wasn't (isn't) true....Disk storage has never been less expensive than it is now...and with the decline in server population there is really no excuse for this except for money grubbing...
So expansions are released with a level cap increase only every 24 months, but only enough new content to explore for a few months at best...People started leaving for other games because of boredom. relative few players want to wait 20+ months to increase their levels, so server populations dropped, making it very hard on some servers to find groups....SO SOE released an expansion (RoK) that didn't really require full groups to progress to the next level cap...The made hundreds of super easy quests (with a few semi hard ones) that could be solo'ed for many classes, duo'ed for a healer and anyone else....Instead of fixing their lack of population, they just designed the game to be played with fewer people in the group...
So a few months after the release of RoK they introduce (with great fanfaire) 2 levels of "epic" weapons (which in itself is not possible, since only one weapon can be truly "epic") and we were told that NO ONE had been given any inside information as to where the starting quest NPCs were located or the strategy required to kill the bosses to obtain the weapons....Then Ne Plus Ultra on Guk server is awarded the Mythical version of the epic weapon 4 (that's FOUR) days after the release. it's found out that SOE devs spoon fed their members not only starting locations, but how to defeat the boss mobs by EXPLOITING abnormallities in the game code....When players complained on the official forums, SOE shut down the complainers with their Men In Black moderators and swept the entire episode under the rug. The cheating Devs continue to this day to not only work for SOE on the EQ2 project, but atleast one is still a member of Ne Plus Ultra...
Now lets look at the company outside of the game....They farmed out their GMs to another country where english (the language that most of their players speak) isn't the native tongue, the "GMs' there were given canned response letters to send to the players upon recieving a petition and most of the GMs didn't even play the game, let alone know how it worked. In game petitions took days to be answered, usually requiring several replies before the issue was settled. I personally had several petitions go completely unanswered. They attempted to fix this with more knowledgable GMS, but now many petitions still go unaswered or the repsonce recieved has little to do with the issue at hand. SOE has little to no customer service skills, and doesn't appear to think they require any. There is no in game support at all, no server GMS, no guides to speak of (the guides they do have are not there for customer support, they are there for in game events that rarely take place) Calling SOE about billing issues can take weeks to have corrected, and if you so much as whisper about their lack of customer service on their official forums, you will get a warning and your post will be deleted, locked or moved. The official forums are over moderated, and with few exceptions, if you post doesn't make the game sound like it's all duckies and bunnies it's moved to some obscure board, or removed. I personally have been baned from the boards because of my disention. I now post there with my wife's screen name, but I am very careful not to piss in SOEs ceral....too much..
I could go on and on about the reasons I have turned from SOE fanboi to a disgruntled soon to be ex customer but I won't bother. The bottom line is that SOE is a publicly held and traded company. Like all Sony products, EQ2 is out to earn a profit. Share holders and the board of directors won't stand for a product that doesn't. If enough people get fed up and leave, EQ2 will be terminated. It would serve SOE well to remember that customers make paydays possible. Their lack of concern for customer service, inability to keep their word, and their unwillingness to punish cheaters will be their demise.
So in a nut shell that should answer your question....Why the hate? because SOE has become a company out of touch with it's customers...Of course there will always be the fanboiz and bootlickers who think SOE can do no wrong, who will use any argument to justify what SOE does, or does not do...but in the end SOE will have to answer to the problems it created for itself....
I stopped reading after I noted a trend and I started counting.
And those of us who used to play SWG know what SOE thinks of their player base: Reading is hard...
As for EQ2, I had a Station Pass and played EQ2 for several months early after its launch. I quit for several reasons, drastic changes to the game play and being banned for asking for help from a moderator in the launchpad. The mod was ignoring pleas of help from several users (myself: the game client was crashing soon after launching and the entire GUI was "messed up") but appeared quite enthralled to talk about cupcakes. I remained logged into the launchpad for close to an hour and asked for help every 10-15 minutes, as well, I had sent 2 PM's to the mod about 20 minutes apart before being kicked from the channel without reason. When I logged back in, the mod was still talking about "cupcakes" (I am serious) and when I asked if I were able to get some help their direct responce was: If you ask for help one more time I am going to ban you!
Because of this treatment, even though it was prior to the "combt upgrade" & the "new game enhancements" in Star Wars Galaxies, I feel that my opinion and stance regarding SOE are sound. The irony is that SOE later committed Wire Fraud in an attempt to cashout on as many SWG subscribers as possible. These actions are well documented and fact.
I do not "hate", but nor will I forget. With this, I exercise my ability to affect this company in the best way that matters - word of mouth is a bitch!
If anyone should hate SOE I should. Let's see; one of the first master Jedi on corbantis server...
This post has more truth in it than even the author probably realizes. This sense of entitlement is why people hate SOE, and yes, most of it is residue from what happened with SWG, tied together with the all too common misconception that this world and the people in it owe you something. The fact that this player, and thousands more like him, hang on to their 'accomplishments' (if you can call holo-grinding or village-grinding a Jedi an accomplishment) prior to the NGE like they're some sort of badge of honor is indicative of a mindset that is either unwilling or unable to adapt to change, and unable to comprehend basic fact that sometimes life sucks.
Yes, what SOE did to SWG was brutal, and ultimately unnecessary. Yes, those of us that were there from the beginning (and even those who came later) all lost something, whether it was time, friendships, money, or all of the above. What a lot of people also lost was their dignity, and their common sense, as they now hop from one forum to the next, foaming at the mouth towards anyone who doesn't agree that Sony is the anti-Christ.
I'm glad this poster that I quoted can at least separate EQ2 from what happened to his characters in SWG, but the way he begins his post is unfortunately a common thread that runs amok amongst the hordes of pissed off SWG vets who continue to feel urinated on by the gods because they lost their precious Elder Jedi and whatever else.
Sony has made some good games, and may even make a few more, no matter how much certain folks may wish otherwise. This is not coming from a Sony fanboy, although I'm sure those charges will be leveled shortly, but rather from someone who was burned by SWG, but was also able to move on, adapt, and not QQ about it for the next three years.
To the original poster, good luck navigating the hate if you choose to play, or write about, SOE games. I'm afraid it will always be there unless these SWG vets suffer a sudden breakout of common sense, as internet forums bring out the absolute worst in people more often than not.
/salute
Jedijef,
You totally missunderstood my post. I am not a hater that is the point. I was pointing out that if anyone had a reason I do.I lost a lot more then the haters. I pointed out those accomplishments to show I put tons of time and effort into the game and was mad enough and rightfully so to leave the game. I do not hang onto accoplishment in games that is crazy they are just games. I do not hate SOE I still play one of their games. I was trying to make a point for this thread.
The point was, I was mad for a few days but got over it after all it is a game. With that said I probably would not play another SOE game because of poor customer serve and other issues not becasue of SWG something that happened years ago. Sorry maybe I did not word it right but I was trying to point out that hating a game is silly and a waste of time. You need to read the whole post in context of the original article. While you had a good response it has nothing to do with me, or how I play and view games. After all these are just that games. At my age I do not have time to hate anyone or anything hate is a waste of time no matter what context it is in. Sorry you misunderstood. By the way I have returned to try SWG a few time and never last more then a couple hours. Not because I hate SOE I simply think SWG in it's current form is a crappy game. That has nothing to do with what happened with NGE.
I am a card carrying, dues paying, registered and voting member of the SOE sucks club. We can start with the debacle that was SWG and move forward to EQII's condoned sales of items for real money. If you like their games, grats. I have a lifetime personal boycott and will never give them another dime.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Miustus, if you went to EQ2flames and could not understand why so many there "hate", then you did not research the recent past there. You might want to do so in a follow-up article.
Did anyone mention how the developers lied about implementing the Froglok quest (the one to unlock Frogloks as a playable race) for at least six months? SOE is a company that is outright hostile towards their customers. No company, that isn't a Hollywood caricature, should feel the need to decieve their customers to the extent that SOE has.
Here's a post I made a while back (actually a repost of a post from over a year ago):
Most of the information in that post is still current (I think the only major change is that the DCUO lead designer and producer have been replaced for the at least fourth and third time).
It used to be that EQ2's dev team and community personnel were the most customer friendly of any SOE product. That may still be the case, but after several folks moved on, the dev team and community personnel are now more in line with the rest of SOE, hostile towards their customers.
EQ2 is easily the second best WoW knockoff currently available (LotRO is the best WoW knockoff). The problems lie with the company's employees and especially the management that has fostered such hostility towards their customers. I've yet to see another company's president, in any industry, publicly state that his company needs to improve customer relations as many times as John Smedley has. Unfortunately, the changes Mr. Smedley has stated time and again need to be made have yet to materialize.
After coming back to EQ II for the free month, then paying for one month I have just cancelled my account (again). No I'm not going to start a "I hate EQII" post.. The reason I cancelled had to do with the cost of the game (in particular why are Australians changed AUD$22.99 when with the current exchange rate the US$14.99 comes out more like AUS$16.00).
The response I got from that question was varied depending on who in support answered.... from "there is a lag with the exchange rate" er, it would have to be something like a 5 year lag. To, "GST is added", which can't be right, I don't really see Sony filling out an Australian BAS form, and even so that's just 10%. And, maybe just a bit closer to the truth, "to stop US players from saying they are from Australia and avoiding tax".
But anyway, getting back to tropic… I stop playing EQ II not long after it was released due to the difficulty of soloing and the “slowness” of progression. Electing to play a Templar mainly solo maybe didn’t help.
When I was told about the free month’s return event I decided to try it again and was surprised to find it a much better game. In fact so many new things have been added the only really issue I had was trying to understand everything. If it wasn’t for the cost I would still be playing (instead I’ve returned to COH).
My point is that most people who quit don’t hate the game, and the people that post on forums that say they do are in the minority. My one suggestion would be have a detail exit survey for when people cancelled; you will get more relevant information for such a survey then reading the forums.
Ive been an avid fan of EQ from the times of Kunark, and decided to play EQ2 way later from its release due to being addicted to WoW for some time.
The only thing I just couldnt get buy was the performance, The BSOD (Blue Screens Of Death) just destroyed my game-play experience, It most likely was my system spec, but friends of mine with different systems were having the same problem ,with alot of others.
Besides that EQ2 was pretty fun and maybe one day will decide to try it yet again.
How precisely is Everquest 2 a World of Warcraft "knockoff?" Wasn't Everquest 2 released first?
Yep, SOE released the Beta version to the public, 2 weeks before Wow to get the jump on Blizzard. Unfortunately it took them a year to get the game out of beta, during which time they made a number of adjustments to make it more Wow like.
I DON'T WANT TO WASTE YEARS OF MY LIFE PLAYING A GAME THAT ALL OF A SUDDEN TURNS INTO ANOTHER GAME
That quote jumped out at me (it's in caps and red afterall...) and that seems to be a common complaint of SoE but didn't World of Warcraft do the same thing? It's been a while since that happened, but I was on a business trip at the time and came back to a different game and whining guildmates.
MMMOGs are "living entities" in a sense and do evolve and change. The EverQuest of 9 years ago isn't the EverQuest of today. The same applies for Ultima Online (they have Elves! Horror of horrors!)
Of course the SWG NGE is the HUGE black mark on SoE's report card and they do have more games published and are hence a larger target.
The only constant is change.
Notice: The views expressed in this post are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com or its management.
I was there at launch, and I have bought every expansion. I've given EQ2 many chances. The game is just soulless. At the beginning it was soulless, and it hasn't changed. There is a serious lack of depth in EQ2. The classes are boring, the gear is boring, and there is no one to group with do fun stuff with. Another major complaint I have is the combat. Its like my avatar is hopped up on meth during combat. The camera view is horrible.
Well sir.nobody can tell you different,it is your decision and all that matters .We can not sit here and tell you that you must like the game nope.HOWEVER ..everything you say you dislike about EQ2 is EXACTLY the same things you will see in 99% of all other MMORPG's and in most cases ,far worse.So what exactly is your point?that all MMORPG's are done badly?that i could accept,but targeting one game for that sort of displeasure is extremely unjust.Souless? again i don't get that one,EQ2 has more LORE than any game out there,that gives a game soul, character and meaning.
I will agree with there not being many players anymore to group and do fun stuff,but that is not a game design fault.I mean after all,the majority have chosen to play the exact same game in WOW but they get to enjoy a 12 colour palette for textures lol.People move to various games for many weird reasons a lot it being mere followers of there friends or just joining a game that claims to have a lot of players.Nowadays there is a much larger contingent joining F2P games,just because they have given up hope on finding that perfect game.
For myself if EQ2 had FFXI's battle system and dual class ability i would never search for another game ever.It would be IMO the perfect game.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I believe the hate is mainly due to the game one loved be changed to resemble something else - like SWG got "WoWified".
And as these changed games persist, the players that used to love them can persist with their hate.
But what I don't get is them replying to threads that have absolutely nothing to do with them (like a newbie asking for help) just to trash that game. To me, it's a bitter person, blinded by hate, wanting to drag everyone around them to the bottom of the pit where they find themselves.
I got game few days ago after playing list mediocre MMOs before EQ2 and I love it , it has so much content that equals at least 10 overhyped MMOs right now on the market, just got lv 20 and had a blast, didnt notice a problem with grouping and comunity is awesome
I have played EQ2 on and off since launch. I have tried every other major fantasy based mmorpg that has come out since and I keep going back to EQ2. Say what you want about it, it is a great game. Sure, there are things I would change, but there is far more to like about it than any other mmorpg I have tried so far. The community, the player base, puts all others to shame as far as atmosphere and friendliness are concerned. I see people here bashing it left and right everytime something positive is said about it and have to wonder how many of them played it for more than a week. i see now that most of it is spawned by a hatred of SOE in general. This game, or any other produced by SOE, will never get a fair shake from most of negative posters here. I have had issues with some of the things SOE has done myself, but I'm not going to let it ruin a good game for me. For those of you who tried it and just didn't like it, I can respect that.
Comments
Well said my friend. I wish I had a character slot left I would love to explore Norrath with you.
I agree. I was scratching my head when I read this article. It almost seems, nowadays, to simply hate SOE because its the "in' thing to do. EQ2, in my opinion, is a solid game with tons of content and can cater to the casual or the hardcore player at the same time.
What's funny to see is that before the NGE came along, EA was seen by many as the MMO devil with its killing of MMO titles and looked to SOE and EQ as the standard. Now the folks that hate SOE are looking to EA/Bioware to be their "savior" with their up and coming MMO. Funny how it comes full circle.
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
EQ2 is the best, the more solid and complete MMORPG out there.
People that can't see or understand that really have some problem...
If you are among the crowd long enough you realize one thing: no matter what you do in the internet, there will always be jerks. I ignore them. Debating with people who are psychologically fixated in projecting all their hate and RL frustration on one object, in this case SOE, cant be argued with. It is a mental problem, and they need a therapist. Its a reflex, a programm. There is not talking to them. I know. I tried.
SOE is objective not a better or worse game company than any others. Period.
This post has more truth in it than even the author probably realizes. This sense of entitlement is why people hate SOE, and yes, most of it is residue from what happened with SWG, tied together with the all too common misconception that this world and the people in it owe you something. The fact that this player, and thousands more like him, hang on to their 'accomplishments' (if you can call holo-grinding or village-grinding a Jedi an accomplishment) prior to the NGE like they're some sort of badge of honor is indicative of a mindset that is either unwilling or unable to adapt to change, and unable to comprehend basic fact that sometimes life sucks.
Yes, what SOE did to SWG was brutal, and ultimately unnecessary. Yes, those of us that were there from the beginning (and even those who came later) all lost something, whether it was time, friendships, money, or all of the above. What a lot of people also lost was their dignity, and their common sense, as they now hop from one forum to the next, foaming at the mouth towards anyone who doesn't agree that Sony is the anti-Christ.
I'm glad this poster that I quoted can at least separate EQ2 from what happened to his characters in SWG, but the way he begins his post is unfortunately a common thread that runs amok amongst the hordes of pissed off SWG vets who continue to feel urinated on by the gods because they lost their precious Elder Jedi and whatever else.
Sony has made some good games, and may even make a few more, no matter how much certain folks may wish otherwise. This is not coming from a Sony fanboy, although I'm sure those charges will be leveled shortly, but rather from someone who was burned by SWG, but was also able to move on, adapt, and not QQ about it for the next three years.
To the original poster, good luck navigating the hate if you choose to play, or write about, SOE games. I'm afraid it will always be there unless these SWG vets suffer a sudden breakout of common sense, as internet forums bring out the absolute worst in people more often than not.
/salute
I stopped reading after I noted a trend and I started counting.
SWG HAS BEEN MENTIONED 30 TIMES
Now maybe I'm the crazy one, but this was an article about EQ2. What I see happens is people burned from SWG laying blanket statements down about SOE ruining everything else. So fine. Lets talk SWG. I was a Bio Engineer and Creature Handler I was two professions that no longer exsisted when the NGE came out. I was mad and I quit that day.
But I wasn't so blinded by rage (Remember, it is a game) To realize two points. The team that makes SWG does not make EQ2. And I'm not even angry at the EQ2 team, they were doing what was told. LA was the one that wanted a carbon copy of World of Warcraft, they saw the numbers, LA wanted a piece of that. Lucasarts is far from innocent of exploiting a game and making a game for the garunteed profit "Star Wars" will bring in, no matter how good (or bad) it is.
So four years later players still complain about the evils of SOE. The evils which basically translate to one event that was more likely an act of Lucasarts then SOE. I moved on, I play EverQuest 2 and I enjoy it.
EQ2 had it s niche game then decided when it was losing subs to WoW that they would incorporate ideas that WoW had in hopes that it would lead players to its game......The end result was a greatly dumbed down version of the original EQ2.......The one thing I learned when I played EQ1 was that SOE is definitely a business and they are in it for the money only......Most changes they make are for the benefit of the company not for the player.......I have to agree with the poster I quoted in that EQ2 now feels like your playing a bad WoW version.....Pretty much everything is soloable and the group content is too easy...... EQ2 was originally aimed at the more hardcore player but now is geared for the casual.
I am an exceptionally outspoken SOE "hater" if you want to call me that. I am frequently the first to bash the posts I find here, and my opinions are harsh and to the point...But first let me give you a little background about myself and my MMO history with SOE games..
I am male, 45 years old, own my own I.T. company and love gaming...My wife also plays MMOs. Currently we have 2 station access passes and bounce between EQ1 and EQ2. We did try Vangard for a short time and found it dissapointing. That was not SOEs fault and I have never bashed SOE for it. ....
I have been Playing SOE games (well Verant/989 games) since 1999 with the release of EQ1. I was a senior guide in the EQ1 guide program until SOE allowed the head of the program to grow power hungry and pissed off most of the guides to the point they left. Still, after that I LOVED SOE...I attended 6 EQ Fanfaires, I lived for the game. Finally after 5 years of playing hundreds of hours a month I took a break (at the release of PoP). When I returned 6 months later I found that many of my friends had become dis enchanted with the game because they were being forced to play for flags that only raiders could obtain. The game had become very linear and many people were pulling the plug. Some went to Dark Ages of Camelot, some waited for the release of EQ2. I continued to play until EQ2 release and then switched. Right from the start I knew EQ2 was going to be different...Not bad, just not the same...It was not as exciting as the first time I made my first EQ1 Barbarian Warrior and logged into Halas....But non the less I was going to give it a chance to win me over. I joined a casual guild, I made friends, I joined the community and learned how to tweak my toons...Still, it took me weeks to attain level 35 with my first character. During this time SOE was answering a lot of questions about the future of the game, what we could expect, and they were fixing a lot of bugs...One of the things that excited me the most was Smed's promise of 4-5 adventure packs per year and at least 2 expansions, with the level cap increasing to 100 within 2 years...WOW!! with a world growing at that rate we would never get bored and there would always be new content to explore! What a disappointment when it didn't happen....
Then the game started to morph....spirt shards were removed, trade skills were made a bit easier, almost all equipment was made attunable, classes were nerfed, sub classes were removed....It was clear that the game was being made easier....still it was fun...But we weren't seeing the promised adventure packs and expansions at the rate they were promised and when expansions and adventure packs were released, a large portion was rehashed NPC models and it was clear very little imagination was going into the development.
Server populations began to dwindle. There was a server merger after a little more than a year....compared to EQ1 that didn't not have a server merger due to declining player base until after the release of EQ2....basically almost 6 years...it was clear that players were dis-enchanted....still SOE did little to nothing to stop the exodus. Almost no advertising outside of gamer publications. A trip to the local software monger would show very few stores were even carrying EQ2 and it's expansions. Even when new expansions were released, stores like Best Buy and EB Games had limited numbers on hand. When I went to buy the retail box of KoS I had to go to 3 different Best Buys to get 2 copies. I was told that they only ordered 10 per store....I live in a very large metro area with 7 best buys within 30 minutes in any direction of me...So for 4 million people there were 70 copies??? And SOE wonders why they have so few players?
Then the price went up...WAY up....$30 a month for station passes....We were already paying $25 a month just so we could have more toon slots....The lack thereof was enough to agrivate a lot of people, SOEs unwillingness to give us more smacked of greed, and their excuse of not having enough disk space or data base storage just angered us more, because it just wasn't (isn't) true....Disk storage has never been less expensive than it is now...and with the decline in server population there is really no excuse for this except for money grubbing...
So expansions are released with a level cap increase only every 24 months, but only enough new content to explore for a few months at best...People started leaving for other games because of boredom. relative few players want to wait 20+ months to increase their levels, so server populations dropped, making it very hard on some servers to find groups....SO SOE released an expansion (RoK) that didn't really require full groups to progress to the next level cap...The made hundreds of super easy quests (with a few semi hard ones) that could be solo'ed for many classes, duo'ed for a healer and anyone else....Instead of fixing their lack of population, they just designed the game to be played with fewer people in the group...
So a few months after the release of RoK they introduce (with great fanfaire) 2 levels of "epic" weapons (which in itself is not possible, since only one weapon can be truly "epic") and we were told that NO ONE had been given any inside information as to where the starting quest NPCs were located or the strategy required to kill the bosses to obtain the weapons....Then Ne Plus Ultra on Guk server is awarded the Mythical version of the epic weapon 4 (that's FOUR) days after the release. it's found out that SOE devs spoon fed their members not only starting locations, but how to defeat the boss mobs by EXPLOITING abnormallities in the game code....When players complained on the official forums, SOE shut down the complainers with their Men In Black moderators and swept the entire episode under the rug. The cheating Devs continue to this day to not only work for SOE on the EQ2 project, but atleast one is still a member of Ne Plus Ultra...
Now lets look at the company outside of the game....They farmed out their GMs to another country where english (the language that most of their players speak) isn't the native tongue, the "GMs' there were given canned response letters to send to the players upon recieving a petition and most of the GMs didn't even play the game, let alone know how it worked. In game petitions took days to be answered, usually requiring several replies before the issue was settled. I personally had several petitions go completely unanswered. They attempted to fix this with more knowledgable GMS, but now many petitions still go unaswered or the repsonce recieved has little to do with the issue at hand. SOE has little to no customer service skills, and doesn't appear to think they require any. There is no in game support at all, no server GMS, no guides to speak of (the guides they do have are not there for customer support, they are there for in game events that rarely take place) Calling SOE about billing issues can take weeks to have corrected, and if you so much as whisper about their lack of customer service on their official forums, you will get a warning and your post will be deleted, locked or moved. The official forums are over moderated, and with few exceptions, if you post doesn't make the game sound like it's all duckies and bunnies it's moved to some obscure board, or removed. I personally have been baned from the boards because of my disention. I now post there with my wife's screen name, but I am very careful not to piss in SOEs ceral....too much..
I could go on and on about the reasons I have turned from SOE fanboi to a disgruntled soon to be ex customer but I won't bother. The bottom line is that SOE is a publicly held and traded company. Like all Sony products, EQ2 is out to earn a profit. Share holders and the board of directors won't stand for a product that doesn't. If enough people get fed up and leave, EQ2 will be terminated. It would serve SOE well to remember that customers make paydays possible. Their lack of concern for customer service, inability to keep their word, and their unwillingness to punish cheaters will be their demise.
So in a nut shell that should answer your question....Why the hate? because SOE has become a company out of touch with it's customers...Of course there will always be the fanboiz and bootlickers who think SOE can do no wrong, who will use any argument to justify what SOE does, or does not do...but in the end SOE will have to answer to the problems it created for itself....
And those of us who used to play SWG know what SOE thinks of their player base: Reading is hard...
As for EQ2, I had a Station Pass and played EQ2 for several months early after its launch. I quit for several reasons, drastic changes to the game play and being banned for asking for help from a moderator in the launchpad. The mod was ignoring pleas of help from several users (myself: the game client was crashing soon after launching and the entire GUI was "messed up") but appeared quite enthralled to talk about cupcakes. I remained logged into the launchpad for close to an hour and asked for help every 10-15 minutes, as well, I had sent 2 PM's to the mod about 20 minutes apart before being kicked from the channel without reason. When I logged back in, the mod was still talking about "cupcakes" (I am serious) and when I asked if I were able to get some help their direct responce was: If you ask for help one more time I am going to ban you!
Because of this treatment, even though it was prior to the "combt upgrade" & the "new game enhancements" in Star Wars Galaxies, I feel that my opinion and stance regarding SOE are sound. The irony is that SOE later committed Wire Fraud in an attempt to cashout on as many SWG subscribers as possible. These actions are well documented and fact.
I do not "hate", but nor will I forget. With this, I exercise my ability to affect this company in the best way that matters - word of mouth is a bitch!
This post has more truth in it than even the author probably realizes. This sense of entitlement is why people hate SOE, and yes, most of it is residue from what happened with SWG, tied together with the all too common misconception that this world and the people in it owe you something. The fact that this player, and thousands more like him, hang on to their 'accomplishments' (if you can call holo-grinding or village-grinding a Jedi an accomplishment) prior to the NGE like they're some sort of badge of honor is indicative of a mindset that is either unwilling or unable to adapt to change, and unable to comprehend basic fact that sometimes life sucks.
Yes, what SOE did to SWG was brutal, and ultimately unnecessary. Yes, those of us that were there from the beginning (and even those who came later) all lost something, whether it was time, friendships, money, or all of the above. What a lot of people also lost was their dignity, and their common sense, as they now hop from one forum to the next, foaming at the mouth towards anyone who doesn't agree that Sony is the anti-Christ.
I'm glad this poster that I quoted can at least separate EQ2 from what happened to his characters in SWG, but the way he begins his post is unfortunately a common thread that runs amok amongst the hordes of pissed off SWG vets who continue to feel urinated on by the gods because they lost their precious Elder Jedi and whatever else.
Sony has made some good games, and may even make a few more, no matter how much certain folks may wish otherwise. This is not coming from a Sony fanboy, although I'm sure those charges will be leveled shortly, but rather from someone who was burned by SWG, but was also able to move on, adapt, and not QQ about it for the next three years.
To the original poster, good luck navigating the hate if you choose to play, or write about, SOE games. I'm afraid it will always be there unless these SWG vets suffer a sudden breakout of common sense, as internet forums bring out the absolute worst in people more often than not.
/salute
Jedijef,
You totally missunderstood my post. I am not a hater that is the point. I was pointing out that if anyone had a reason I do.I lost a lot more then the haters. I pointed out those accomplishments to show I put tons of time and effort into the game and was mad enough and rightfully so to leave the game. I do not hang onto accoplishment in games that is crazy they are just games. I do not hate SOE I still play one of their games. I was trying to make a point for this thread.
The point was, I was mad for a few days but got over it after all it is a game. With that said I probably would not play another SOE game because of poor customer serve and other issues not becasue of SWG something that happened years ago. Sorry maybe I did not word it right but I was trying to point out that hating a game is silly and a waste of time. You need to read the whole post in context of the original article. While you had a good response it has nothing to do with me, or how I play and view games. After all these are just that games. At my age I do not have time to hate anyone or anything hate is a waste of time no matter what context it is in. Sorry you misunderstood. By the way I have returned to try SWG a few time and never last more then a couple hours. Not because I hate SOE I simply think SWG in it's current form is a crappy game. That has nothing to do with what happened with NGE.
Thank you all for your comments. I'm getting more and more input here.
And excuse the screenshot. My editor wants me to take them and put them in the articles, and I'm not too bright with them.
The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.
I am a card carrying, dues paying, registered and voting member of the SOE sucks club. We can start with the debacle that was SWG and move forward to EQII's condoned sales of items for real money. If you like their games, grats. I have a lifetime personal boycott and will never give them another dime.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Miustus, if you went to EQ2flames and could not understand why so many there "hate", then you did not research the recent past there. You might want to do so in a follow-up article.
www.eq2flames.com/hall-flames/22038-how-will.html
www.eq2flames.com/general-gameplay/22153-recap-summarization-recent-events.html
www.eq2flames.com/general-gameplay/22758-why-all-hate-little-perspecitve.html
Did anyone mention how the developers lied about implementing the Froglok quest (the one to unlock Frogloks as a playable race) for at least six months? SOE is a company that is outright hostile towards their customers. No company, that isn't a Hollywood caricature, should feel the need to decieve their customers to the extent that SOE has.
Here's a post I made a while back (actually a repost of a post from over a year ago):
www.mpog.com/discussion2.cfm
Most of the information in that post is still current (I think the only major change is that the DCUO lead designer and producer have been replaced for the at least fourth and third time).
It used to be that EQ2's dev team and community personnel were the most customer friendly of any SOE product. That may still be the case, but after several folks moved on, the dev team and community personnel are now more in line with the rest of SOE, hostile towards their customers.
EQ2 is easily the second best WoW knockoff currently available (LotRO is the best WoW knockoff). The problems lie with the company's employees and especially the management that has fostered such hostility towards their customers. I've yet to see another company's president, in any industry, publicly state that his company needs to improve customer relations as many times as John Smedley has. Unfortunately, the changes Mr. Smedley has stated time and again need to be made have yet to materialize.
After coming back to EQ II for the free month, then paying for one month I have just cancelled my account (again). No I'm not going to start a "I hate EQII" post.. The reason I cancelled had to do with the cost of the game (in particular why are Australians changed AUD$22.99 when with the current exchange rate the US$14.99 comes out more like AUS$16.00).
Ive been an avid fan of EQ from the times of Kunark, and decided to play EQ2 way later from its release due to being addicted to WoW for some time.
The only thing I just couldnt get buy was the performance, The BSOD (Blue Screens Of Death) just destroyed my game-play experience, It most likely was my system spec, but friends of mine with different systems were having the same problem ,with alot of others.
Besides that EQ2 was pretty fun and maybe one day will decide to try it yet again.
How precisely is Everquest 2 a World of Warcraft "knockoff?" Wasn't Everquest 2 released first?
The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.
It sure was but only about a week. To WoW fanbois everything is a WoW "Knockoff". As I see it EQ2 and WoW both borrowed from Asheron's Call.
Yep, SOE released the Beta version to the public, 2 weeks before Wow to get the jump on Blizzard. Unfortunately it took them a year to get the game out of beta, during which time they made a number of adjustments to make it more Wow like.
That quote jumped out at me (it's in caps and red afterall...) and that seems to be a common complaint of SoE but didn't World of Warcraft do the same thing? It's been a while since that happened, but I was on a business trip at the time and came back to a different game and whining guildmates.
MMMOGs are "living entities" in a sense and do evolve and change. The EverQuest of 9 years ago isn't the EverQuest of today. The same applies for Ultima Online (they have Elves! Horror of horrors!)
Of course the SWG NGE is the HUGE black mark on SoE's report card and they do have more games published and are hence a larger target.
The only constant is change.
Notice: The views expressed in this post are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com or its management.
The more things change, the more they stay the same, eh?
The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.
Well sir.nobody can tell you different,it is your decision and all that matters .We can not sit here and tell you that you must like the game nope.HOWEVER
..everything you say you dislike about EQ2 is EXACTLY the same things you will see in 99% of all other MMORPG's and in most cases ,far worse.So what exactly is your point?that all MMORPG's are done badly?that i could accept,but targeting one game for that sort of displeasure is extremely unjust.Souless? again i don't get that one,EQ2 has more LORE than any game out there,that gives a game soul, character and meaning.
I will agree with there not being many players anymore to group and do fun stuff,but that is not a game design fault.I mean after all,the majority have chosen to play the exact same game in WOW but they get to enjoy a 12 colour palette for textures lol.People move to various games for many weird reasons a lot it being mere followers of there friends or just joining a game that claims to have a lot of players.Nowadays there is a much larger contingent joining F2P games,just because they have given up hope on finding that perfect game.
For myself if EQ2 had FFXI's battle system and dual class ability i would never search for another game ever.It would be IMO the perfect game.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I believe the hate is mainly due to the game one loved be changed to resemble something else - like SWG got "WoWified".
And as these changed games persist, the players that used to love them can persist with their hate.
But what I don't get is them replying to threads that have absolutely nothing to do with them (like a newbie asking for help) just to trash that game. To me, it's a bitter person, blinded by hate, wanting to drag everyone around them to the bottom of the pit where they find themselves.
I got game few days ago after playing list mediocre MMOs before EQ2 and I love it , it has so much content that equals at least 10 overhyped MMOs right now on the market, just got lv 20 and had a blast, didnt notice a problem with grouping and comunity is awesome
I have played EQ2 on and off since launch. I have tried every other major fantasy based mmorpg that has come out since and I keep going back to EQ2. Say what you want about it, it is a great game. Sure, there are things I would change, but there is far more to like about it than any other mmorpg I have tried so far. The community, the player base, puts all others to shame as far as atmosphere and friendliness are concerned. I see people here bashing it left and right everytime something positive is said about it and have to wonder how many of them played it for more than a week. i see now that most of it is spawned by a hatred of SOE in general. This game, or any other produced by SOE, will never get a fair shake from most of negative posters here. I have had issues with some of the things SOE has done myself, but I'm not going to let it ruin a good game for me. For those of you who tried it and just didn't like it, I can respect that.