The time effort and years of effort here , prove that collateral content and the game is in development. I just cannot believe that the effort invested in DF is just a scam too much evidence to prove otherwise which is available for anyone who can be bothered to see.
You fail to realize that if you take ALL of the darkfall media EVER released it would not take a handful of experienced developers any longer than a few weeks to produce.
It would not take more than 4 experienced programmers 1 full year to build tools and a rendering engine.
So in reality over the last 7 years we have seen maybe about 1.6 years worth of work.
So I ask you. What have they been doing the other 90% of the time?
They have yet to show that 90% of this games features even EXIST let alone actually functioning properly.
The time effort and years of effort here , prove that collateral content and the game is in development. I just cannot believe that the effort invested in DF is just a scam too much evidence to prove otherwise which is available for anyone who can be bothered to see.
You fail to realize that if you take ALL of the darkfall media EVER released it would not take a handful of experienced developers any longer than a few weeks to produce.
It would not take more than 4 experienced programmers 1 full year to build tools and a rendering engine.
So in reality over the last 7 years we have seen maybe about 1.6 years worth of work.
So I ask you. What have they been doing the other 90% of the time?
They have yet to show that 90% of this games features even EXIST let alone actually functioning properly.
youa gree with anything negative about df so /shrug
Originally posted by CreepingDoom Originally posted by downtoearth I wouldnt say that brannoc in irc was just saying the vid will be out this month might not be on a friday tho. and he also saying its good enough for people to shit there pants even maybe twice. lol man i feel sorry for you guys. i bet we willa t least se epublic ttesting start /clan beta
I feel sorry for people that take the word of a company that repeatedly lies to its fans. But thats just me. Keep on feeling sorry, because when nothing happens again this year, you'll still blindly follow the game as if it was the next messiah into the new year and beyond. Its just the way truely foolish people are, no fault of your own I'm sure.
amen!!!! Ya I said the same thing kinda back in 04...and look at us today...its amusing how these guys keep blindly following DF like its going to be the next revolution in games....maybe back in 01...but not now lol. Keep it up guys...ill just place my lawn chair on the sidelines and watch the fireworks....i should have enough popcorn to last me till then :P
The point is that anyone can make a video of some 3d characters running around. It doesn't prove that it's a GAME. Now, the vast quantities of WAR material out there means the probability of WAR existing is pretty high, whereas ONE "in game" video would prove nothing at all. So a darkfall in game video wouldn't be much of a proof either.
I agree, videoes doesn't prove anything. That said, Aventurine isn't making this video to prove anything, they are making a video to please their fans. Where is the proof you say ? Well, you'll find it out for yourself when you play the fully functionally game. For free.
I think they need to prove a lot, and this is why they are doing the video, also to show something to the investors, if there is any, or future investors. Pleasing the fans? well yes, but not the main reason.
But I don't think Darkfall is going to happen ever, so doesn't matter. Let's please the fans
The point is that anyone can make a video of some 3d characters running around. It doesn't prove that it's a GAME. Now, the vast quantities of WAR material out there means the probability of WAR existing is pretty high, whereas ONE "in game" video would prove nothing at all. So a darkfall in game video wouldn't be much of a proof either.
I agree, videoes doesn't prove anything. That said, Aventurine isn't making this video to prove anything, they are making a video to please their fans. Where is the proof you say ? Well, you'll find it out for yourself when you play the fully functionally game. For free.
I think they need to prove a lot, and this is why they are doing the video, also to show something to the investors, if there is any, or future investors. Pleasing the fans? well yes, but not the main reason.
But I don't think Darkfall is going to happen ever, so doesn't matter. Let's please the fans
you really think there lieing LOL ok they mite be lieing about some things but there just some things you cant lie about
In game video wouldnt be much proof? Yea, if they release in game video I bet they would all be sitting in a room laughing, "Lets spend another few million $ to just string these ppl along and make them think we have a real game. That way we can reap all the benefits of creating all this stuf for no reason. Muahahaha."
Makes perfect sense to me too, i bet they all sit around making bets on who can tear up hundred dollar bills the fastest also.
Yeah, because it couldn't be that they have been trying to make a game, but have gotten way over their heads and are floundering trying to figure out what to do with the work they do have. In the mean time they have been living off money from investors and now off a 5 million dollar loan.
The people who have a reasonable assumption about Darkfall, don't think they woke up one day and saod "let's scam the world for no reason today." Like most failed business they are exsisting by going increasingly in debt.
do you read these posts or just the last few lines?
we werent even talking about wether or not they will finish the game, i also have my doubts.
he said, ingame video isnt proof that a game EXISTS. That is stupid if there is ingame video then uh.....yes a game exists.
Do you actually read what people are responding to? I was obviously responding to this commnet:
" "Lets spend another few million $ to just string these ppl along and make them think we have a real game. That way we can reap all the benefits of creating all this stuf for no reason. Muahahaha.""
I agree, videoes doesn't prove anything. That said, Aventurine isn't making this video to prove anything, they are making a video to please their fans. Where is the proof you say ? Well, you'll find it out for yourself when you play the fully functionally game. For free.
If they aren't making a video to prove the game exists, then they're idiots, considering nearly everyone has, at best, doubts, and at worst thinks the whole thing is a fraud.
And I had thought they were planning on charging for the game. So they're having problems giving away a game that's [supposedly] releasing five years later than planned.
Hmm, how can they release a game 5 years ago when game started being developed 5 years ago?
Didnt you know they totally restarted developing after merge late 2002? Totally new game world, new game engine, new coding.
The time effort and years of effort here , prove that collateral content and the game is in development. I just cannot believe that the effort invested in DF is just a scam too much evidence to prove otherwise which is available for anyone who can be bothered to see.
You fail to realize that if you take ALL of the darkfall media EVER released it would not take a handful of experienced developers any longer than a few weeks to produce.
It would not take more than 4 experienced programmers 1 full year to build tools and a rendering engine.
So in reality over the last 7 years we have seen maybe about 1.6 years worth of work.
So I ask you. What have they been doing the other 90% of the time?
They have yet to show that 90% of this games features even EXIST let alone actually functioning properly.
I guess they been developing the game instead of over hyping like Funcom did.
That make me way more comfortable then the Funcom approach did. I told the AoC fans the truth abouth that shitty game many months before the bubble bursted. Did they believe me? Nope. They were to much of fans to even consider it.
Overhyping is something that should draw alarmbells not developing the game like Darkfall team does and staying true to there initial ideas. Let the game speak on its strength when it arrives. And remember, you dont have to pay a dime before you tested it out, sounds fair to me.
I wouldnt say that brannoc in irc was just saying the vid will be out this month might not be on a friday tho.
and he also saying its good enough for people to shit there pants even maybe twice.
lol man i feel sorry for you guys.
i bet we willa t least se epublic ttesting start /clan beta
I feel sorry for people that take the word of a company that repeatedly lies to its fans.
But thats just me.
Keep on feeling sorry, because when nothing happens again this year, you'll still blindly follow the game as if it was the next messiah into the new year and beyond. Its just the way truely foolish people are, no fault of your own I'm sure.
amen!!!! Ya I said the same thing kinda back in 04...and look at us today...its amusing how these guys keep blindly following DF like its going to be the next revolution in games....maybe back in 01...but not now lol. Keep it up guys...ill just place my lawn chair on the sidelines and watch the fireworks....i should have enough popcorn to last me till then :P
Darkfall of today have been in development from midsummer 2003. Its not that a long time for a game of Darkfalls caliber. 5 years is a quite common development time for a large MMORPG. And you have to remember that Aventurine isnt as a big company as Blizzard. So id say they developed Darkfall quite fast.
What you have to do is to read up on the game my friend cause you lack alot of info on it.
Darkfall is kinda like God. The believers will fight to the death to defend the idea that it exists. The haters say there is no proof and therefore it doesn't exist. Neither side can prove the other wrong... lol
One does not have to prove a negative. The burden of proof lies with the claimant of the positive. This is what's referred to as a "logical fallacy", specifically "negative proof".
negative proof, the fallacy of appealing to lack of proof of the negative, is a logical fallacy of the following form:
"X is true because there is no proof that X is false."
It is asserted that a proposition is true, only because it has not been proven false. The negative proof fallacy often occurs in the debate of the existence of supernatural phenomena, in the following form:
"A supernatural force must exist, because there is no proof that it does not exist".
dude........dude, dude.....i do enjoy reading discussions, i do enjoy reading clever as well as dumb comments or points of view, but plz: Do not quote something (or better said, just a part of it) you do not seem to comprehend at all, lemme help you out:
using the system of NEGATIVE PROOF is an naturally logical as long as observations do NOT show obvious mechanisms or empirical data underlining the opposite......so in our case (concerning the release of the game darkfall), observations show at least obvious mechanisms that (empirically, which in our case means through prropability and statistics) put the ball very much into the vaporware court. coz: There have been other companies undertaking similar *strategies* to keep their fanbase while trying to find financial aid in, to start with, at least complete their project...well while looking for investors, being able to show off a thriving fanbase helps in doing that.....doing that over such a long time, does give the impression that they are not really successfull with that.
statistically seen, they all were vaporware in the end....
For about, i really dunno, lets say 5 years not being able to show a REAL gameplay video, does underline the claim of vaporware....well let me tell you that: ppl who know will propably agree with me: creating a 3d enviroment and let some 3d characters do a little bit stuff, running around, swinging sword, waving hand and so on, is NOT REALLY WORK....creating average quality animations and grafics is not that difficult, even i can do that even though that is not my speciality and am not really good in it.
lets say they have a complete world, grafics, characters, even items and so on, if the programmers and designers were just close of being that mad and really try to do that stuff they promised the game will have, than i can tell you that: They will be debugging there code till santorini erupts again.....
dont get me wrong, it is possible.....with the right ressources and time..........dont think aventurine does have that, well....time at least they seem to have
At the end let me tell you this, to not get hopes completely down xD : To me it seems, even the fact they moved to greece, that most guys there at aventurine are fans, just clever and skilled young guys with an idea, but more or less fun in head than anything else (they stated they moved to greece coz of taxes, which is a plain lie..i am half greek half german and have lived in both countries, lemme tell u this: taxes are actually high.....nevertheless..they propably moved there coz the initial team came from norway, and greece rules......xD..ok, there are lots of bright minded young programmers in greece, very talented guys (maybe that was the reason to move there? just kiddin)....well working with a team which partially consists of greek guys slows down everything, those ppl tend to care more for there next island trip than there work, believe me i know what i am talking about, that is not a joke, that is a factor for every company employing greek guys in greece....maybe it will release, we just need to w8 10 more years
so to sum up: no one can really say if that game will be released or not, but atleast to me it is most likely that they wont be able to do it......lets see...
Darkfall is kinda like God. The believers will fight to the death to defend the idea that it exists. The haters say there is no proof and therefore it doesn't exist. Neither side can prove the other wrong... lol
One does not have to prove a negative. The burden of proof lies with the claimant of the positive. This is what's referred to as a "logical fallacy", specifically "negative proof".
negative proof, the fallacy of appealing to lack of proof of the negative, is a logical fallacy of the following form:
"X is true because there is no proof that X is false."
It is asserted that a proposition is true, only because it has not been proven false. The negative proof fallacy often occurs in the debate of the existence of supernatural phenomena, in the following form:
"A supernatural force must exist, because there is no proof that it does not exist".
dude........dude, dude.....i do enjoy reading discussions, i do enjoy reading clever as well as dumb comments or points of view, but plz: Do not quote something (or better said, just a part of it) you do not seem to comprehend at all, lemme help you out:
using the system of NEGATIVE PROOF is an naturally logical as long as observations do NOT show obvious mechanisms or empirical data underlining the opposite......so in our case (concerning the release of the game darkfall), observations show at least obvious mechanisms that (empirically, which in our case means through prropability and statistics) put the ball very much into the vaporware court. coz: There have been other companies undertaking similar *strategies* to keep their fanbase while trying to find financial aid in, to start with, at least complete their project...well while looking for investors, being able to show off a thriving fanbase helps in doing that.....doing that over such a long time, does give the impression that they are not really successfull with that.
statistically seen, they all were vaporware in the end....
For about, i really dunno, lets say 5 years not being able to show a REAL gameplay video, does underline the claim of vaporware....well let me tell you that: ppl who know will propably agree with me: creating a 3d enviroment and let some 3d characters do a little bit stuff, running around, swinging sword, waving hand and so on, is NOT REALLY WORK....creating average quality animations and grafics is not that difficult, even i can do that even though that is not my speciality and am not really good in it.
lets say they have a complete world, grafics, characters, even items and so on, if the programmers and designers were just close of being that mad and really try to do that stuff they promised the game will have, than i can tell you that: They will be debugging there code till santorini erupts again.....
dont get me wrong, it is possible.....with the right ressources and time..........dont think aventurine does have that, well....time at least they seem to have
At the end let me tell you this, to not get hopes completely down xD : To me it seems, even the fact they moved to greece, that most guys there at aventurine are fans, just clever and skilled young guys with an idea, but more or less fun in head than anything else (they stated they moved to greece coz of taxes, which is a plain lie..i am half greek half german and have lived in both countries, lemme tell u this: taxes are actually high.....nevertheless..they propably moved there coz the initial team came from norway, and greece rules......xD..ok, there are lots of bright minded young programmers in greece, very talented guys (maybe that was the reason to move there? just kiddin)....well working with a team which partially consists of greek guys slows down everything, those ppl tend to care more for there next island trip than there work, believe me i know what i am talking about, that is not a joke, that is a factor for every company employing greek guys in greece....maybe it will release, we just need to w8 10 more years
so to sum up: no one can really say if that game will be released or not, but atleast to me it is most likely that they wont be able to do it......lets see...
Damn!
Its been a while since a saw a so well written post here on the DF forum! Nice done. Hope this sets the standard for the nearert weeks....atleast.
Darkfall is kinda like God. The believers will fight to the death to defend the idea that it exists. The haters say there is no proof and therefore it doesn't exist. Neither side can prove the other wrong... lol
One does not have to prove a negative. The burden of proof lies with the claimant of the positive. This is what's referred to as a "logical fallacy", specifically "negative proof".
negative proof, the fallacy of appealing to lack of proof of the negative, is a logical fallacy of the following form:
"X is true because there is no proof that X is false."
It is asserted that a proposition is true, only because it has not been proven false. The negative proof fallacy often occurs in the debate of the existence of supernatural phenomena, in the following form:
"A supernatural force must exist, because there is no proof that it does not exist".
There have been other companies undertaking similar *strategies* to keep their fanbase while trying to find financial aid in, to start with, at least complete their project...well while looking for investors, being able to show off a thriving fanbase helps in doing that.....doing that over such a long time, does give the impression that they are not really successfull with that.
Aragon100: Hmm didnt know they had financial problems? Can you direct me to some info or maybe some nice looking quotes where we all can share youre tremendous insight in the company called Aventurine?=)
statistically seen, they all were vaporware in the end....
Aragon100: For Aventurine to fit into any statistic comparasion with other vaporware games you have to back your statement of finacial difficulties with some real info on the matter. So far i havent seen anything of it. And you know what, you wont be able to deliver any.=)
So where is that info of yours on financial problems for Aventurine? Or did you just take it out of thin air? If so its not backing your credibility, dude.=)
For about, i really dunno, lets say 5 years not being able to show a REAL gameplay video, does underline the claim of vaporware....well let me tell you that: ppl who know will propably agree with me: creating a 3d enviroment and let some 3d characters do a little bit stuff, running around, swinging sword, waving hand and so on, is NOT REALLY WORK....creating average quality animations and grafics is not that difficult, even i can do that even though that is not my speciality and am not really good in it.
Aragon100: Its a wellknown priority from Aventurine not to put funds or developer time into PR. They make the game as good as they can and let it speak on its strength. As Tasos so well put it in one of his Dev Journals "Giant budgets and giant advertising campaigns demand giant paydays". So the order of priority is wellknown and wether you approve with it or not isnt what make Tasos loose his sleep during nights.=) Personally i think Aventurine made the right choice since theyre a smaller game developing company and there money should go to developing, not making up hype by costly advertising campaigns. If the game is good it will have players.
Just look what happens when you do it the other way arround like Funcom did. Huge bankloans to pay back and soon no money coming their way when all the players left the sinking ship called Age of Conan.=) Its called bankrupcy and suit them just right.
At the end let me tell you this, to not get hopes completely down xD :
Aragon100: ROFL. You think anything youre making up here, yes making up, will let anyone down?=) If so you really take yourself way to seriously. Would be alot more interesting with some facts backing your wall of text that really says very little when you dissecate it.=)
To me it seems, even the fact they moved to greece, that most guys there at aventurine are fans, just clever and skilled young guys with an idea, but more or less fun in head than anything else (they stated they moved to greece coz of taxes, which is a plain lie..i am half greek half german and have lived in both countries, lemme tell u this: taxes are actually high.....nevertheless..they propably moved there coz the initial team came from norway, and greece rules......xD..ok, there are lots of bright minded young programmers in greece, very talented guys (maybe that was the reason to move there? just kiddin)....well working with a team which partially consists of greek guys slows down everything, those ppl tend to care more for there next island trip than there work, believe me i know what i am talking about, that is not a joke, that is a factor for every company employing greek guys in greece....maybe it will release, we just need to w8 10 more years
Aragon100: Its way, way cheaper to live in Greece then in Norway. Salaries is way lower. Rent is lower. Didnt you know that Norway is one of the most expensive countries in the world to live in?=) So it was a really smart move to move to Greece. Way cheaper to develop a game in Greece. And dont forget the nice food.=)
so to sum up: no one can really say if that game will be released or not, but atleast to me it is most likely that they wont be able to do it......lets see...
Aragon100: So to sum it up: no one can really say if Darkfall will be released or not, but at least to me it is most likely that they will be able to pull it through.....lets see....
Darkfall is kinda like God. The believers will fight to the death to defend the idea that it exists. The haters say there is no proof and therefore it doesn't exist. Neither side can prove the other wrong... lol
One does not have to prove a negative. The burden of proof lies with the claimant of the positive. This is what's referred to as a "logical fallacy", specifically "negative proof".
negative proof, the fallacy of appealing to lack of proof of the negative, is a logical fallacy of the following form:
"X is true because there is no proof that X is false."
It is asserted that a proposition is true, only because it has not been proven false. The negative proof fallacy often occurs in the debate of the existence of supernatural phenomena, in the following form:
"A supernatural force must exist, because there is no proof that it does not exist".
dude........dude, dude.....i do enjoy reading discussions, i do enjoy reading clever as well as dumb comments or points of view, but plz: Do not quote something (or better said, just a part of it) you do not seem to comprehend at all, lemme help you out:
using the system of NEGATIVE PROOF is an naturally logical as long as observations do NOT show obvious mechanisms or empirical data underlining the opposite......so in our case (concerning the release of the game darkfall), observations show at least obvious mechanisms that (empirically, which in our case means through prropability and statistics) put the ball very much into the vaporware court. coz: There have been other companies undertaking similar *strategies* to keep their fanbase while trying to find financial aid in, to start with, at least complete their project...well while looking for investors, being able to show off a thriving fanbase helps in doing that.....doing that over such a long time, does give the impression that they are not really successfull with that.
statistically seen, they all were vaporware in the end....
For about, i really dunno, lets say 5 years not being able to show a REAL gameplay video, does underline the claim of vaporware....well let me tell you that: ppl who know will propably agree with me: creating a 3d enviroment and let some 3d characters do a little bit stuff, running around, swinging sword, waving hand and so on, is NOT REALLY WORK....creating average quality animations and grafics is not that difficult, even i can do that even though that is not my speciality and am not really good in it.
lets say they have a complete world, grafics, characters, even items and so on, if the programmers and designers were just close of being that mad and really try to do that stuff they promised the game will have, than i can tell you that: They will be debugging there code till santorini erupts again.....
dont get me wrong, it is possible.....with the right ressources and time..........dont think aventurine does have that, well....time at least they seem to have
At the end let me tell you this, to not get hopes completely down xD : To me it seems, even the fact they moved to greece, that most guys there at aventurine are fans, just clever and skilled young guys with an idea, but more or less fun in head than anything else (they stated they moved to greece coz of taxes, which is a plain lie..i am half greek half german and have lived in both countries, lemme tell u this: taxes are actually high.....nevertheless..they propably moved there coz the initial team came from norway, and greece rules......xD..ok, there are lots of bright minded young programmers in greece, very talented guys (maybe that was the reason to move there? just kiddin)....well working with a team which partially consists of greek guys slows down everything, those ppl tend to care more for there next island trip than there work, believe me i know what i am talking about, that is not a joke, that is a factor for every company employing greek guys in greece....maybe it will release, we just need to w8 10 more years
so to sum up: no one can really say if that game will be released or not, but atleast to me it is most likely that they wont be able to do it......lets see...
Damn!
Its been a while since a saw a so well written post here on the DF forum! Nice done. Hope this sets the standard for the nearert weeks....atleast.
Really? What did i miss?=)
Too me it was a wall of text saying nothing. Just about all he said was inaccurate too.
dont get upset, i wont comment on everthing u replied to my statement, but let me tell u this:
why do u want me to proof aventurine have financial problems? i never said that directly.......keep ur triggerfinger in ur holster and reread......all i did was stating that this behaviour is typical, (not only for game developers) if they have financial problems....so all i do is implying that there is a high propability that they do have problems like that....so there is nothing to proof for me there
one thing i dont want to let slip through unnoticed is ur statement concerning norway and greece: norway is expensive, but let me clear that out: developers come from norway, there is the whole world to choose,now ill give u sth to think about: between norway and greece is denmark, netherlands, belgium, germany, Poland!, austria, switzerland, Kroatia, Macedonia and so on...........of all this countrys mentioned, i can tell u something for sure: regarding rent and cost for living i KNOW greece is more expensive than germany, Poland, Macedonia..in all aspects,,,i ASSUME its more expensive than Croatia, others are indeed more expensive or i dont really know to make assumptions.....so u see? cannot have been the money......
edit: and btw...u do speak of FACTS and FACTS and AGAIN FACTS alot of times here.....why do u want me to give u so many facts? dont u get enough FACTS from aventurine regarding Darkfall?
u seam to play it hard and loose with the word FACTS.
@aragon100 dont get upset, i wont comment on everthing u replied to my statement, but let me tell u this: why do u want me to proof aventurine have financial problems? i never said that directly.......keep ur triggerfinger in ur holster and reread......all i did was stating that this behaviour is typical, (not only for game developers) if they have financial problems....so all i do is implying that there is a high propability that they do have problems like that....so there is nothing to proof for me there True you did make up a nice little story that Aventurine "most likely" must have financial difficulties. Problem with that story is that neither you nor me have any info regarding the accuracy behind your little story. So infact they could have some backup from Sheik Mohammed from Quatar that for some reason really loves sandbox MMORPG games. Its as a accurate story as yours. one thing i dont want to let slip through unnoticed is ur statement concerning norway and greece: norway is expensive, but let me clear that out: developers come from norway, there is the whole world to choose,now ill give u sth to think about: between norway and greece is denmark, netherlands, belgium, germany, Poland!, austria, switzerland, Kroatia, Macedonia and so on...........of all this countrys mentioned, i can tell u something for sure: regarding rent and cost for living i KNOW greece is more expensive than germany, Poland, Macedonia..in all aspects,,,i ASSUME its more expensive than Croatia, others are indeed more expensive or i dont really know to make assumptions.....so u see? cannot have been the money...... Thing is they didnt get any offer from those other countries you mention above. So i guess the Greece offer that was something from the real world was the best of them.=) I give you this again. http://www.finfacts.ie/costofliving.htm
Here you have a nice link of how cheap Athens was to live in late 2002 when Razorwax moved to Greece and merged with Aventurine.
So i guess the Greece offer that was something from the real world was the best of them.=)
They didn't get any "offer" from Greece. Aventurine IS Razorwax.
They lied straight through their teeth years ago about getting a "publisher" in Greece.
Aventurine was formed in 2002.. it was a start-up company that Razowax STARTED UP and moved off to Greece because they were too broke to develop in Norway...
Fast forward 4 years later and Razorwax files for bankruptcy... I wonder where that $500,000 investment they got in Norway went too?????
So i guess the Greece offer that was something from the real world was the best of them.=)
They didn't get any "offer" from Greece. Aventurine IS Razorwax.
They lied straight through their teeth years ago about getting a "publisher" in Greece.
Aventurine was formed in 2002.. it was a start-up company that Razowax STARTED UP and moved off to Greece because they were too broke to develop in Norway...
Fast forward 4 years later and Razorwax files for bankruptcy... I wonder where that $500,000 investment they got in Norway went too?????
Tasos's pocket?
ROFL- its so easy to proof you wrong that i do it with one hand behind my back this time.
And here is the statement that informs us they did close a deal with the already existing company called Aventurine based in Greece. So Razorwax didnt create Aventurine.
LOL - Aventurine SA was created October 2002 in Greece. As early as mid-December, 2002, Razorwax had closed a deal with a Greek publisher that we would all later know as Aventurine[9]. Within months, and by February 2003, Razorwax had cut its ties with Intermedia Invest and planned on moving its locale to Greece.
You must read up on the history abit more dude. If your knowledge of the game is this bad what else did you misunderstand? That the game will rock maybe?
[QUOTE] As early as mid-December, 2002, Razorwax had closed a deal with a Greek publisher that we would all later know as Aventurine[9]. Within months, and by February 2003, Razorwax had cut its ties with Intermedia Invest and planned on moving its locale to Greece. Trond Heier had a few choice words to say of the exchange, wishing Razorwax well in their endeavors, and lamenting only slightly the 3million kronor loss he accrued from the investment in an interview with VG.no[10]. Today, beyond sticking it to Microsoft[11], it appears Trond Heier's financial ties to Darkfall are severed. Although they were quite apprehensive about the whole thing at the start, it seems as though the 60 million kronor investment in Intermedia Invest paid off, at least for us Darkfall fans, and the excitement and tenacity of Simon Yuen really makes him out to be one heck of a cool guy[12,1]. [/QUOTE]
@aragon100 dont get upset, i wont comment on everthing u replied to my statement, but let me tell u this: why do u want me to proof aventurine have financial problems? i never said that directly.......keep ur triggerfinger in ur holster and reread......all i did was stating that this behaviour is typical, (not only for game developers) if they have financial problems....so all i do is implying that there is a high propability that they do have problems like that....so there is nothing to proof for me there
one thing i dont want to let slip through unnoticed is ur statement concerning norway and greece: norway is expensive, but let me clear that out: developers come from norway, there is the whole world to choose,now ill give u sth to think about: between norway and greece is denmark, netherlands, belgium, germany, Poland!, austria, switzerland, Kroatia, Macedonia and so on...........of all this countrys mentioned, i can tell u something for sure: regarding rent and cost for living i KNOW greece is more expensive than germany, Poland, Macedonia..in all aspects,,,i ASSUME its more expensive than Croatia, others are indeed more expensive or i dont really know to make assumptions.....so u see? cannot have been the money......
edit: and btw...u do speak of FACTS and FACTS and AGAIN FACTS alot of times here.....why do u want me to give u so many facts? dont u get enough FACTS from aventurine regarding Darkfall? u seam to play it hard and loose with the word FACTS.
Aragorn is happy to a point with the info provided by the developers, you obviously aren't or are just trolling.
Your previous post was interesting but added no value to the debate, not saying something directly in your own words is owning up to the FACT that you inferred exactly that... now thats a FACT.
They have a dream, the development of DF is being done on a tight budget nothing wrong with that. The game will just take longer to deliver, well some may say it is a problem but the MMO genre hasn't really moved forward gameplay wise since UO from a sandbox perspective. IT has got prettier but not much more what DF offers will provide a valid playing mechanism for years from now so in that respect the game will not be outdated as it will have real gameplay elements..
So wheres the rush, the DF developers are skilled individuals have enough funding to keep the development ticking over. Everything Tasos says is with respect to a development cycles, and as anyone knows complex ones can go round in circles and change scope at a minutes notice. In these cases you are normally accountable to whoever provides the budget ... so backers and the guys themselves.
So who are they accountable to...no one here thats for sure. Untill the game releases and there are paying customers DF are doing it right. They give info as per the development cycle out of courtesy not out of any binding need people seem to ignore this and just fire out demands.
I think a lot of time and effort has been put into DF and in that respect it exists no doubt about that, If it releases as a fully functioning MMO thats up for debate.
But Darkfall as an entity does exist and is being developed by Aventurine.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Sorry to break the news to you but MMORPG's are not built on "dreams". They are built on huge financial backing and loads of talent.
And based on the info to date - Aventurine has neither.
This is your way to share "news" with us.
And i quote -
[QUOTE] GMny : They didn't get any "offer" from Greece. Aventurine IS Razorwax.
They lied straight through their teeth years ago about getting a "publisher" in Greece.
Aventurine was formed in 2002.. it was a start-up company that Razowax STARTED UP and moved off to Greece because they were too broke to develop in Norway...
Fast forward 4 years later and Razorwax files for bankruptcy... I wonder where that $500,000 investment they got in Norway went too?????
Tasos's pocket? [/QUOTE]
This was my answer to you and still i havent got any respond from you, wonder why? Were you wrong or?
[QUOTE] Aragon100 : ROFL- its so easy to proof you wrong that i do it with one hand behind my back this time.
And here is the statement that informs us they did close a deal with the already existing company called Aventurine based in Greece. So Razorwax didnt create Aventurine.
LOL - Aventurine SA was created October 2002 in Greece. As early as mid-December, 2002, Razorwax had closed a deal with a Greek publisher that we would all later know as Aventurine[9]. Within months, and by February 2003, Razorwax had cut its ties with Intermedia Invest and planned on moving its locale to Greece.
You must read up on the history abit more dude. If your knowledge of the game is this bad what else did you misunderstand? That the game will rock maybe?
[QUOTE] As early as mid-December, 2002, Razorwax had closed a deal with a Greek publisher that we would all later know as Aventurine[9]. Within months, and by February 2003, Razorwax had cut its ties with Intermedia Invest and planned on moving its locale to Greece. Trond Heier had a few choice words to say of the exchange, wishing Razorwax well in their endeavors, and lamenting only slightly the 3million kronor loss he accrued from the investment in an interview with VG.no[10]. Today, beyond sticking it to Microsoft[11], it appears Trond Heier's financial ties to Darkfall are severed. Although they were quite apprehensive about the whole thing at the start, it seems as though the 60 million kronor investment in Intermedia Invest paid off, at least for us Darkfall fans, and the excitement and tenacity of Simon Yuen really makes him out to be one heck of a cool guy[12,1]. [/QUOTE]
Considering you seem to have very poor knowledge on the game Darkfall i take your knowledge on the game and ability to draw conclusions on the game Darkfall very lightly.
I wouldnt say that brannoc in irc was just saying the vid will be out this month might not be on a friday tho. and he also saying its good enough for people to shit there pants even maybe twice. lol man i feel sorry for you guys. i bet we willa t least se epublic ttesting start /clan beta
I feel sorry for people that take the word of a company that repeatedly lies to its fans. But thats just me. Keep on feeling sorry, because when nothing happens again this year, you'll still blindly follow the game as if it was the next messiah into the new year and beyond. Its just the way truely foolish people are, no fault of your own I'm sure.
amen!!!! Ya I said the same thing kinda back in 04...and look at us today...its amusing how these guys keep blindly following DF like its going to be the next revolution in games....maybe back in 01...but not now lol. Keep it up guys...ill just place my lawn chair on the sidelines and watch the fireworks....i should have enough popcorn to last me till then :P
Darkfall of today have been in development from midsummer 2003. Its not that a long time for a game of Darkfalls caliber. 5 years is a quite common development time for a large MMORPG. And you have to remember that Aventurine isnt as a big company as Blizzard. So id say they developed Darkfall quite fast. What you have to do is to read up on the game my friend cause you lack alot of info on it.
God..either you never passed the reading lessons in school when you were a kid, or hooked on phonics was a complete scam, but if you didnt really noticed i said "back in 04" which even though that was when i joined MMORPG.com, i have been a extensive follower of Darkfall since...so basically i have the same "info" as you do....and keep in mind one thing...I was a HUGE supporter of the game before i even joined this site. God man....you need to read up more on the game yourself before you judge someone like me "friend"
OH!! and this whole..."i know more than u do" crap wont get anyone here very far....for all that has been following the game since the beginning (like myself) and has been following the forums as much as i have (i do have an account there..just under a diff name) then those people will know about as much info as i do and any one else.
Sorry to break the news to you but MMORPG's are not built on "dreams". They are built on huge financial backing and loads of talent.
And based on the info to date - Aventurine has neither.
You haven't got a clue , and please don't quote out of context it just makes you look a bigger fool than you already are. Their dream = design philosophy , approach , vision ... of which I see no major evidence they have deviated from.
I don't need you to tell me how the development cycle for an MMO works , keep taking things out of context but it will not work on me at some point you may add something constructive but until you do you will just keep on failing. (TROLL on)
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
I wouldnt say that brannoc in irc was just saying the vid will be out this month might not be on a friday tho.
and he also saying its good enough for people to shit there pants even maybe twice.
lol man i feel sorry for you guys.
i bet we willa t least se epublic ttesting start /clan beta
I feel sorry for people that take the word of a company that repeatedly lies to its fans.
But thats just me.
Keep on feeling sorry, because when nothing happens again this year, you'll still blindly follow the game as if it was the next messiah into the new year and beyond. Its just the way truely foolish people are, no fault of your own I'm sure.
amen!!!! Ya I said the same thing kinda back in 04...and look at us today...its amusing how these guys keep blindly following DF like its going to be the next revolution in games....maybe back in 01...but not now lol. Keep it up guys...ill just place my lawn chair on the sidelines and watch the fireworks....i should have enough popcorn to last me till then :P
Darkfall of today have been in development from midsummer 2003. Its not that a long time for a game of Darkfalls caliber. 5 years is a quite common development time for a large MMORPG. And you have to remember that Aventurine isnt as a big company as Blizzard. So id say they developed Darkfall quite fast.
What you have to do is to read up on the game my friend cause you lack alot of info on it.
God..either you never passed the reading lessons in school when you were a kid, or hooked on phonics was a complete scam, but if you didnt really noticed i said "back in 04" which even though that was when i joined MMORPG.com, i have been a extensive follower of Darkfall since...so basically i have the same "info" as you do....and keep in mind one thing...I was a HUGE supporter of the game before i even joined this site. God man....you need to read up more on the game yourself before you judge someone like me "friend"
I joined Darkfall forum as number 22 the year 2001 out of the 54573 members we have today so i can say pretty safely i followed the game longer then you. I definetly have more knowledge in the game since you dont even seem to know about there restart 2003.
Game were just about totally restarted midsummer 2003 and if you want a quote contest in the matter, just ask.
"If you tear down your house completely and rebuild it then you count the age of the building from the day you restarted building your new home"
Just out of curiosity, what is the next revolution in games as you see it? Age of Conan wasnt. Warhammer is WoW2. Darkfall seems way more a revolution to me then those two.
The Thread is so funny - i had to laugh several times about the posts; it is a good example for a absolutely pointless discussion. Darkfall Hahaha - Buhahahahaha; maybe there is a Darkfall on the devs harddrives but there is no way that it can compete with the current mmos. The only thing that i know is that a bunch of guys who thought that they would be competent enough to program a game spent way to much money on that project with no result. I am sure it wasnt only their own money; that means, there is someone out there who wants his money back - and of course some extra cash. But how to do this without a released game. Its simple paying credits with a new loan from someone else. But how to get the necessary creditworthiness? Thats not that simple and requires some skills in the field of storytelling and figurepainting. But it seems like the team is at least capable of that. So your questioning yourself what the devs are doing all the time and why there is no progress in the game development. The reason is that they are currently programming other stuff as well; perhaps business software or a screensaver with glitter and naked girls to create some turnover and to pay at least the interests of the various credits they have collected so far to calm the private and institutional investors. I am quite sure that this company has a serious problem with its liquidity and that it will sooner or later be object of prosecution due to insolvency protraction.
Comments
You fail to realize that if you take ALL of the darkfall media EVER released it would not take a handful of experienced developers any longer than a few weeks to produce.
It would not take more than 4 experienced programmers 1 full year to build tools and a rendering engine.
So in reality over the last 7 years we have seen maybe about 1.6 years worth of work.
So I ask you. What have they been doing the other 90% of the time?
They have yet to show that 90% of this games features even EXIST let alone actually functioning properly.
You fail to realize that if you take ALL of the darkfall media EVER released it would not take a handful of experienced developers any longer than a few weeks to produce.
It would not take more than 4 experienced programmers 1 full year to build tools and a rendering engine.
So in reality over the last 7 years we have seen maybe about 1.6 years worth of work.
So I ask you. What have they been doing the other 90% of the time?
They have yet to show that 90% of this games features even EXIST let alone actually functioning properly.
youa gree with anything negative about df so /shrug
I feel sorry for people that take the word of a company that repeatedly lies to its fans.
But thats just me.
Keep on feeling sorry, because when nothing happens again this year, you'll still blindly follow the game as if it was the next messiah into the new year and beyond. Its just the way truely foolish people are, no fault of your own I'm sure.
amen!!!! Ya I said the same thing kinda back in 04...and look at us today...its amusing how these guys keep blindly following DF like its going to be the next revolution in games....maybe back in 01...but not now lol. Keep it up guys...ill just place my lawn chair on the sidelines and watch the fireworks....i should have enough popcorn to last me till then :P
I agree, videoes doesn't prove anything. That said, Aventurine isn't making this video to prove anything, they are making a video to please their fans. Where is the proof you say ? Well, you'll find it out for yourself when you play the fully functionally game. For free.
I think they need to prove a lot, and this is why they are doing the video, also to show something to the investors, if there is any, or future investors. Pleasing the fans? well yes, but not the main reason.
But I don't think Darkfall is going to happen ever, so doesn't matter. Let's please the fans
I agree, videoes doesn't prove anything. That said, Aventurine isn't making this video to prove anything, they are making a video to please their fans. Where is the proof you say ? Well, you'll find it out for yourself when you play the fully functionally game. For free.
I think they need to prove a lot, and this is why they are doing the video, also to show something to the investors, if there is any, or future investors. Pleasing the fans? well yes, but not the main reason.
But I don't think Darkfall is going to happen ever, so doesn't matter. Let's please the fans
you really think there lieing LOL ok they mite be lieing about some things but there just some things you cant lie about
In game video wouldnt be much proof? Yea, if they release in game video I bet they would all be sitting in a room laughing, "Lets spend another few million $ to just string these ppl along and make them think we have a real game. That way we can reap all the benefits of creating all this stuf for no reason. Muahahaha."
Makes perfect sense to me too, i bet they all sit around making bets on who can tear up hundred dollar bills the fastest also.
Yeah, because it couldn't be that they have been trying to make a game, but have gotten way over their heads and are floundering trying to figure out what to do with the work they do have. In the mean time they have been living off money from investors and now off a 5 million dollar loan.
The people who have a reasonable assumption about Darkfall, don't think they woke up one day and saod "let's scam the world for no reason today." Like most failed business they are exsisting by going increasingly in debt.
do you read these posts or just the last few lines?
we werent even talking about wether or not they will finish the game, i also have my doubts.
he said, ingame video isnt proof that a game EXISTS. That is stupid if there is ingame video then uh.....yes a game exists.
Do you actually read what people are responding to? I was obviously responding to this commnet:
" "Lets spend another few million $ to just string these ppl along and make them think we have a real game. That way we can reap all the benefits of creating all this stuf for no reason. Muahahaha.""
If they aren't making a video to prove the game exists, then they're idiots, considering nearly everyone has, at best, doubts, and at worst thinks the whole thing is a fraud.
And I had thought they were planning on charging for the game. So they're having problems giving away a game that's [supposedly] releasing five years later than planned.
Hmm, how can they release a game 5 years ago when game started being developed 5 years ago?
Didnt you know they totally restarted developing after merge late 2002? Totally new game world, new game engine, new coding.
You fail to realize that if you take ALL of the darkfall media EVER released it would not take a handful of experienced developers any longer than a few weeks to produce.
It would not take more than 4 experienced programmers 1 full year to build tools and a rendering engine.
So in reality over the last 7 years we have seen maybe about 1.6 years worth of work.
So I ask you. What have they been doing the other 90% of the time?
They have yet to show that 90% of this games features even EXIST let alone actually functioning properly.
I guess they been developing the game instead of over hyping like Funcom did.
That make me way more comfortable then the Funcom approach did. I told the AoC fans the truth abouth that shitty game many months before the bubble bursted. Did they believe me? Nope. They were to much of fans to even consider it.
Overhyping is something that should draw alarmbells not developing the game like Darkfall team does and staying true to there initial ideas. Let the game speak on its strength when it arrives. And remember, you dont have to pay a dime before you tested it out, sounds fair to me.
I feel sorry for people that take the word of a company that repeatedly lies to its fans.
But thats just me.
Keep on feeling sorry, because when nothing happens again this year, you'll still blindly follow the game as if it was the next messiah into the new year and beyond. Its just the way truely foolish people are, no fault of your own I'm sure.
amen!!!! Ya I said the same thing kinda back in 04...and look at us today...its amusing how these guys keep blindly following DF like its going to be the next revolution in games....maybe back in 01...but not now lol. Keep it up guys...ill just place my lawn chair on the sidelines and watch the fireworks....i should have enough popcorn to last me till then :P
Darkfall of today have been in development from midsummer 2003. Its not that a long time for a game of Darkfalls caliber. 5 years is a quite common development time for a large MMORPG. And you have to remember that Aventurine isnt as a big company as Blizzard. So id say they developed Darkfall quite fast.
What you have to do is to read up on the game my friend cause you lack alot of info on it.
One does not have to prove a negative. The burden of proof lies with the claimant of the positive. This is what's referred to as a "logical fallacy", specifically "negative proof".
negative proof, the fallacy of appealing to lack of proof of the negative, is a logical fallacy of the following form:
It is asserted that a proposition is true, only because it has not been proven false. The negative proof fallacy often occurs in the debate of the existence of supernatural phenomena, in the following form:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_proof
dude........dude, dude.....i do enjoy reading discussions, i do enjoy reading clever as well as dumb comments or points of view, but plz: Do not quote something (or better said, just a part of it) you do not seem to comprehend at all, lemme help you out:
using the system of NEGATIVE PROOF is an naturally logical as long as observations do NOT show obvious mechanisms or empirical data underlining the opposite......so in our case (concerning the release of the game darkfall), observations show at least obvious mechanisms that (empirically, which in our case means through prropability and statistics) put the ball very much into the vaporware court. coz: There have been other companies undertaking similar *strategies* to keep their fanbase while trying to find financial aid in, to start with, at least complete their project...well while looking for investors, being able to show off a thriving fanbase helps in doing that.....doing that over such a long time, does give the impression that they are not really successfull with that.
statistically seen, they all were vaporware in the end....
For about, i really dunno, lets say 5 years not being able to show a REAL gameplay video, does underline the claim of vaporware....well let me tell you that: ppl who know will propably agree with me: creating a 3d enviroment and let some 3d characters do a little bit stuff, running around, swinging sword, waving hand and so on, is NOT REALLY WORK....creating average quality animations and grafics is not that difficult, even i can do that even though that is not my speciality and am not really good in it.
lets say they have a complete world, grafics, characters, even items and so on, if the programmers and designers were just close of being that mad and really try to do that stuff they promised the game will have, than i can tell you that: They will be debugging there code till santorini erupts again.....
dont get me wrong, it is possible.....with the right ressources and time..........dont think aventurine does have that, well....time at least they seem to have
At the end let me tell you this, to not get hopes completely down xD : To me it seems, even the fact they moved to greece, that most guys there at aventurine are fans, just clever and skilled young guys with an idea, but more or less fun in head than anything else (they stated they moved to greece coz of taxes, which is a plain lie..i am half greek half german and have lived in both countries, lemme tell u this: taxes are actually high.....nevertheless..they propably moved there coz the initial team came from norway, and greece rules......xD..ok, there are lots of bright minded young programmers in greece, very talented guys (maybe that was the reason to move there? just kiddin)....well working with a team which partially consists of greek guys slows down everything, those ppl tend to care more for there next island trip than there work, believe me i know what i am talking about, that is not a joke, that is a factor for every company employing greek guys in greece....maybe it will release, we just need to w8 10 more years
so to sum up: no one can really say if that game will be released or not, but atleast to me it is most likely that they wont be able to do it......lets see...
One does not have to prove a negative. The burden of proof lies with the claimant of the positive. This is what's referred to as a "logical fallacy", specifically "negative proof".
negative proof, the fallacy of appealing to lack of proof of the negative, is a logical fallacy of the following form:
It is asserted that a proposition is true, only because it has not been proven false. The negative proof fallacy often occurs in the debate of the existence of supernatural phenomena, in the following form:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_proof
dude........dude, dude.....i do enjoy reading discussions, i do enjoy reading clever as well as dumb comments or points of view, but plz: Do not quote something (or better said, just a part of it) you do not seem to comprehend at all, lemme help you out:
using the system of NEGATIVE PROOF is an naturally logical as long as observations do NOT show obvious mechanisms or empirical data underlining the opposite......so in our case (concerning the release of the game darkfall), observations show at least obvious mechanisms that (empirically, which in our case means through prropability and statistics) put the ball very much into the vaporware court. coz: There have been other companies undertaking similar *strategies* to keep their fanbase while trying to find financial aid in, to start with, at least complete their project...well while looking for investors, being able to show off a thriving fanbase helps in doing that.....doing that over such a long time, does give the impression that they are not really successfull with that.
statistically seen, they all were vaporware in the end....
For about, i really dunno, lets say 5 years not being able to show a REAL gameplay video, does underline the claim of vaporware....well let me tell you that: ppl who know will propably agree with me: creating a 3d enviroment and let some 3d characters do a little bit stuff, running around, swinging sword, waving hand and so on, is NOT REALLY WORK....creating average quality animations and grafics is not that difficult, even i can do that even though that is not my speciality and am not really good in it.
lets say they have a complete world, grafics, characters, even items and so on, if the programmers and designers were just close of being that mad and really try to do that stuff they promised the game will have, than i can tell you that: They will be debugging there code till santorini erupts again.....
dont get me wrong, it is possible.....with the right ressources and time..........dont think aventurine does have that, well....time at least they seem to have
At the end let me tell you this, to not get hopes completely down xD : To me it seems, even the fact they moved to greece, that most guys there at aventurine are fans, just clever and skilled young guys with an idea, but more or less fun in head than anything else (they stated they moved to greece coz of taxes, which is a plain lie..i am half greek half german and have lived in both countries, lemme tell u this: taxes are actually high.....nevertheless..they propably moved there coz the initial team came from norway, and greece rules......xD..ok, there are lots of bright minded young programmers in greece, very talented guys (maybe that was the reason to move there? just kiddin)....well working with a team which partially consists of greek guys slows down everything, those ppl tend to care more for there next island trip than there work, believe me i know what i am talking about, that is not a joke, that is a factor for every company employing greek guys in greece....maybe it will release, we just need to w8 10 more years
so to sum up: no one can really say if that game will be released or not, but atleast to me it is most likely that they wont be able to do it......lets see...
Damn!
Its been a while since a saw a so well written post here on the DF forum! Nice done. Hope this sets the standard for the nearert weeks....atleast.
One does not have to prove a negative. The burden of proof lies with the claimant of the positive. This is what's referred to as a "logical fallacy", specifically "negative proof".
negative proof, the fallacy of appealing to lack of proof of the negative, is a logical fallacy of the following form:
It is asserted that a proposition is true, only because it has not been proven false. The negative proof fallacy often occurs in the debate of the existence of supernatural phenomena, in the following form:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_proof
There have been other companies undertaking similar *strategies* to keep their fanbase while trying to find financial aid in, to start with, at least complete their project...well while looking for investors, being able to show off a thriving fanbase helps in doing that.....doing that over such a long time, does give the impression that they are not really successfull with that.
Aragon100: Hmm didnt know they had financial problems? Can you direct me to some info or maybe some nice looking quotes where we all can share youre tremendous insight in the company called Aventurine?=)
statistically seen, they all were vaporware in the end....
Aragon100: For Aventurine to fit into any statistic comparasion with other vaporware games you have to back your statement of finacial difficulties with some real info on the matter. So far i havent seen anything of it. And you know what, you wont be able to deliver any.=)
So where is that info of yours on financial problems for Aventurine? Or did you just take it out of thin air? If so its not backing your credibility, dude.=)
For about, i really dunno, lets say 5 years not being able to show a REAL gameplay video, does underline the claim of vaporware....well let me tell you that: ppl who know will propably agree with me: creating a 3d enviroment and let some 3d characters do a little bit stuff, running around, swinging sword, waving hand and so on, is NOT REALLY WORK....creating average quality animations and grafics is not that difficult, even i can do that even though that is not my speciality and am not really good in it.
Aragon100: Its a wellknown priority from Aventurine not to put funds or developer time into PR. They make the game as good as they can and let it speak on its strength. As Tasos so well put it in one of his Dev Journals "Giant budgets and giant advertising campaigns demand giant paydays". So the order of priority is wellknown and wether you approve with it or not isnt what make Tasos loose his sleep during nights.=) Personally i think Aventurine made the right choice since theyre a smaller game developing company and there money should go to developing, not making up hype by costly advertising campaigns. If the game is good it will have players.
Just look what happens when you do it the other way arround like Funcom did. Huge bankloans to pay back and soon no money coming their way when all the players left the sinking ship called Age of Conan.=) Its called bankrupcy and suit them just right.
At the end let me tell you this, to not get hopes completely down xD :
Aragon100: ROFL. You think anything youre making up here, yes making up, will let anyone down?=) If so you really take yourself way to seriously. Would be alot more interesting with some facts backing your wall of text that really says very little when you dissecate it.=)
To me it seems, even the fact they moved to greece, that most guys there at aventurine are fans, just clever and skilled young guys with an idea, but more or less fun in head than anything else (they stated they moved to greece coz of taxes, which is a plain lie..i am half greek half german and have lived in both countries, lemme tell u this: taxes are actually high.....nevertheless..they propably moved there coz the initial team came from norway, and greece rules......xD..ok, there are lots of bright minded young programmers in greece, very talented guys (maybe that was the reason to move there? just kiddin)....well working with a team which partially consists of greek guys slows down everything, those ppl tend to care more for there next island trip than there work, believe me i know what i am talking about, that is not a joke, that is a factor for every company employing greek guys in greece....maybe it will release, we just need to w8 10 more years
Aragon100: Its way, way cheaper to live in Greece then in Norway. Salaries is way lower. Rent is lower. Didnt you know that Norway is one of the most expensive countries in the world to live in?=) So it was a really smart move to move to Greece. Way cheaper to develop a game in Greece. And dont forget the nice food.=)
http://www.finfacts.ie/costofliving.htm
so to sum up: no one can really say if that game will be released or not, but atleast to me it is most likely that they wont be able to do it......lets see...
Aragon100: So to sum it up: no one can really say if Darkfall will be released or not, but at least to me it is most likely that they will be able to pull it through.....lets see....
One does not have to prove a negative. The burden of proof lies with the claimant of the positive. This is what's referred to as a "logical fallacy", specifically "negative proof".
negative proof, the fallacy of appealing to lack of proof of the negative, is a logical fallacy of the following form:
It is asserted that a proposition is true, only because it has not been proven false. The negative proof fallacy often occurs in the debate of the existence of supernatural phenomena, in the following form:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_proof
dude........dude, dude.....i do enjoy reading discussions, i do enjoy reading clever as well as dumb comments or points of view, but plz: Do not quote something (or better said, just a part of it) you do not seem to comprehend at all, lemme help you out:
using the system of NEGATIVE PROOF is an naturally logical as long as observations do NOT show obvious mechanisms or empirical data underlining the opposite......so in our case (concerning the release of the game darkfall), observations show at least obvious mechanisms that (empirically, which in our case means through prropability and statistics) put the ball very much into the vaporware court. coz: There have been other companies undertaking similar *strategies* to keep their fanbase while trying to find financial aid in, to start with, at least complete their project...well while looking for investors, being able to show off a thriving fanbase helps in doing that.....doing that over such a long time, does give the impression that they are not really successfull with that.
statistically seen, they all were vaporware in the end....
For about, i really dunno, lets say 5 years not being able to show a REAL gameplay video, does underline the claim of vaporware....well let me tell you that: ppl who know will propably agree with me: creating a 3d enviroment and let some 3d characters do a little bit stuff, running around, swinging sword, waving hand and so on, is NOT REALLY WORK....creating average quality animations and grafics is not that difficult, even i can do that even though that is not my speciality and am not really good in it.
lets say they have a complete world, grafics, characters, even items and so on, if the programmers and designers were just close of being that mad and really try to do that stuff they promised the game will have, than i can tell you that: They will be debugging there code till santorini erupts again.....
dont get me wrong, it is possible.....with the right ressources and time..........dont think aventurine does have that, well....time at least they seem to have
At the end let me tell you this, to not get hopes completely down xD : To me it seems, even the fact they moved to greece, that most guys there at aventurine are fans, just clever and skilled young guys with an idea, but more or less fun in head than anything else (they stated they moved to greece coz of taxes, which is a plain lie..i am half greek half german and have lived in both countries, lemme tell u this: taxes are actually high.....nevertheless..they propably moved there coz the initial team came from norway, and greece rules......xD..ok, there are lots of bright minded young programmers in greece, very talented guys (maybe that was the reason to move there? just kiddin)....well working with a team which partially consists of greek guys slows down everything, those ppl tend to care more for there next island trip than there work, believe me i know what i am talking about, that is not a joke, that is a factor for every company employing greek guys in greece....maybe it will release, we just need to w8 10 more years
so to sum up: no one can really say if that game will be released or not, but atleast to me it is most likely that they wont be able to do it......lets see...
Damn!
Its been a while since a saw a so well written post here on the DF forum! Nice done. Hope this sets the standard for the nearert weeks....atleast.
Really? What did i miss?=)
Too me it was a wall of text saying nothing. Just about all he said was inaccurate too.
@aragon100
dont get upset, i wont comment on everthing u replied to my statement, but let me tell u this:
why do u want me to proof aventurine have financial problems? i never said that directly.......keep ur triggerfinger in ur holster and reread......all i did was stating that this behaviour is typical, (not only for game developers) if they have financial problems....so all i do is implying that there is a high propability that they do have problems like that....so there is nothing to proof for me there
one thing i dont want to let slip through unnoticed is ur statement concerning norway and greece: norway is expensive, but let me clear that out: developers come from norway, there is the whole world to choose,now ill give u sth to think about: between norway and greece is denmark, netherlands, belgium, germany, Poland!, austria, switzerland, Kroatia, Macedonia and so on...........of all this countrys mentioned, i can tell u something for sure: regarding rent and cost for living i KNOW greece is more expensive than germany, Poland, Macedonia..in all aspects,,,i ASSUME its more expensive than Croatia, others are indeed more expensive or i dont really know to make assumptions.....so u see? cannot have been the money......
edit: and btw...u do speak of FACTS and FACTS and AGAIN FACTS alot of times here.....why do u want me to give u so many facts? dont u get enough FACTS from aventurine regarding Darkfall?
u seam to play it hard and loose with the word FACTS.
Here you have a nice link of how cheap Athens was to live in late 2002 when Razorwax moved to Greece and merged with Aventurine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_cities
They didn't get any "offer" from Greece. Aventurine IS Razorwax.
They lied straight through their teeth years ago about getting a "publisher" in Greece.
Aventurine was formed in 2002.. it was a start-up company that Razowax STARTED UP and moved off to Greece because they were too broke to develop in Norway...
Fast forward 4 years later and Razorwax files for bankruptcy... I wonder where that $500,000 investment they got in Norway went too?????
Tasos's pocket?
They didn't get any "offer" from Greece. Aventurine IS Razorwax.
They lied straight through their teeth years ago about getting a "publisher" in Greece.
Aventurine was formed in 2002.. it was a start-up company that Razowax STARTED UP and moved off to Greece because they were too broke to develop in Norway...
Fast forward 4 years later and Razorwax files for bankruptcy... I wonder where that $500,000 investment they got in Norway went too?????
Tasos's pocket?
ROFL- its so easy to proof you wrong that i do it with one hand behind my back this time.
http://company.mmosite.com/aventurine/index.shtml
And here is the statement that informs us they did close a deal with the already existing company called Aventurine based in Greece. So Razorwax didnt create Aventurine.
http://www.anvilsociety.com/wax/news2.htm
LOL - Aventurine SA was created October 2002 in Greece. As early as mid-December, 2002, Razorwax had closed a deal with a Greek publisher that we would all later know as Aventurine[9]. Within months, and by February 2003, Razorwax had cut its ties with Intermedia Invest and planned on moving its locale to Greece.
You must read up on the history abit more dude. If your knowledge of the game is this bad what else did you misunderstand? That the game will rock maybe?
http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/editorials/3222-Surly-s-Column-State-of-the-Game-Darkfall-Razorwax-and-Aventurin
[QUOTE] As early as mid-December, 2002, Razorwax had closed a deal with a Greek publisher that we would all later know as Aventurine[9]. Within months, and by February 2003, Razorwax had cut its ties with Intermedia Invest and planned on moving its locale to Greece. Trond Heier had a few choice words to say of the exchange, wishing Razorwax well in their endeavors, and lamenting only slightly the 3million kronor loss he accrued from the investment in an interview with VG.no[10]. Today, beyond sticking it to Microsoft[11], it appears Trond Heier's financial ties to Darkfall are severed. Although they were quite apprehensive about the whole thing at the start, it seems as though the 60 million kronor investment in Intermedia Invest paid off, at least for us Darkfall fans, and the excitement and tenacity of Simon Yuen really makes him out to be one heck of a cool guy[12,1]. [/QUOTE]
Anyone referring to this as 'Darkfail' yet?
Ahh .. sorry I couldn't resist. *hangs head in shame.*
Aragorn is happy to a point with the info provided by the developers, you obviously aren't or are just trolling.
Your previous post was interesting but added no value to the debate, not saying something directly in your own words is owning up to the FACT that you inferred exactly that... now thats a FACT.
They have a dream, the development of DF is being done on a tight budget nothing wrong with that. The game will just take longer to deliver, well some may say it is a problem but the MMO genre hasn't really moved forward gameplay wise since UO from a sandbox perspective. IT has got prettier but not much more what DF offers will provide a valid playing mechanism for years from now so in that respect the game will not be outdated as it will have real gameplay elements..
So wheres the rush, the DF developers are skilled individuals have enough funding to keep the development ticking over. Everything Tasos says is with respect to a development cycles, and as anyone knows complex ones can go round in circles and change scope at a minutes notice. In these cases you are normally accountable to whoever provides the budget ... so backers and the guys themselves.
So who are they accountable to...no one here thats for sure. Untill the game releases and there are paying customers DF are doing it right. They give info as per the development cycle out of courtesy not out of any binding need people seem to ignore this and just fire out demands.
I think a lot of time and effort has been put into DF and in that respect it exists no doubt about that, If it releases as a fully functioning MMO thats up for debate.
But Darkfall as an entity does exist and is being developed by Aventurine.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Sorry to break the news to you but MMORPG's are not built on "dreams". They are built on huge financial backing and loads of talent.
And based on the info to date - Aventurine has neither.
Sorry to break the news to you but MMORPG's are not built on "dreams". They are built on huge financial backing and loads of talent.
And based on the info to date - Aventurine has neither.
This is your way to share "news" with us.
And i quote -
[QUOTE] GMny : They didn't get any "offer" from Greece. Aventurine IS Razorwax.
They lied straight through their teeth years ago about getting a "publisher" in Greece.
Aventurine was formed in 2002.. it was a start-up company that Razowax STARTED UP and moved off to Greece because they were too broke to develop in Norway...
Fast forward 4 years later and Razorwax files for bankruptcy... I wonder where that $500,000 investment they got in Norway went too?????
Tasos's pocket? [/QUOTE]
This was my answer to you and still i havent got any respond from you, wonder why? Were you wrong or?
[QUOTE] Aragon100 : ROFL- its so easy to proof you wrong that i do it with one hand behind my back this time.
http://company.mmosite.com/aventurine/index.shtml
And here is the statement that informs us they did close a deal with the already existing company called Aventurine based in Greece. So Razorwax didnt create Aventurine.
http://www.anvilsociety.com/wax/news2.htm
LOL - Aventurine SA was created October 2002 in Greece. As early as mid-December, 2002, Razorwax had closed a deal with a Greek publisher that we would all later know as Aventurine[9]. Within months, and by February 2003, Razorwax had cut its ties with Intermedia Invest and planned on moving its locale to Greece.
You must read up on the history abit more dude. If your knowledge of the game is this bad what else did you misunderstand? That the game will rock maybe?
http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/editorials/3222-Surly-s-Column-State-of-the-Game-Darkfall-Razorwax-and-Aventurin
[QUOTE] As early as mid-December, 2002, Razorwax had closed a deal with a Greek publisher that we would all later know as Aventurine[9]. Within months, and by February 2003, Razorwax had cut its ties with Intermedia Invest and planned on moving its locale to Greece. Trond Heier had a few choice words to say of the exchange, wishing Razorwax well in their endeavors, and lamenting only slightly the 3million kronor loss he accrued from the investment in an interview with VG.no[10]. Today, beyond sticking it to Microsoft[11], it appears Trond Heier's financial ties to Darkfall are severed. Although they were quite apprehensive about the whole thing at the start, it seems as though the 60 million kronor investment in Intermedia Invest paid off, at least for us Darkfall fans, and the excitement and tenacity of Simon Yuen really makes him out to be one heck of a cool guy[12,1]. [/QUOTE]
Considering you seem to have very poor knowledge on the game Darkfall i take your knowledge on the game and ability to draw conclusions on the game Darkfall very lightly.
God..either you never passed the reading lessons in school when you were a kid, or hooked on phonics was a complete scam, but if you didnt really noticed i said "back in 04" which even though that was when i joined MMORPG.com, i have been a extensive follower of Darkfall since...so basically i have the same "info" as you do....and keep in mind one thing...I was a HUGE supporter of the game before i even joined this site. God man....you need to read up more on the game yourself before you judge someone like me "friend"
OH!! and this whole..."i know more than u do" crap wont get anyone here very far....for all that has been following the game since the beginning (like myself) and has been following the forums as much as i have (i do have an account there..just under a diff name) then those people will know about as much info as i do and any one else.
Sorry to break the news to you but MMORPG's are not built on "dreams". They are built on huge financial backing and loads of talent.
And based on the info to date - Aventurine has neither.
You haven't got a clue , and please don't quote out of context it just makes you look a bigger fool than you already are. Their dream = design philosophy , approach , vision ... of which I see no major evidence they have deviated from.
I don't need you to tell me how the development cycle for an MMO works , keep taking things out of context but it will not work on me at some point you may add something constructive but until you do you will just keep on failing. (TROLL on)
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
I feel sorry for people that take the word of a company that repeatedly lies to its fans.
But thats just me.
Keep on feeling sorry, because when nothing happens again this year, you'll still blindly follow the game as if it was the next messiah into the new year and beyond. Its just the way truely foolish people are, no fault of your own I'm sure.
amen!!!! Ya I said the same thing kinda back in 04...and look at us today...its amusing how these guys keep blindly following DF like its going to be the next revolution in games....maybe back in 01...but not now lol. Keep it up guys...ill just place my lawn chair on the sidelines and watch the fireworks....i should have enough popcorn to last me till then :P
Darkfall of today have been in development from midsummer 2003. Its not that a long time for a game of Darkfalls caliber. 5 years is a quite common development time for a large MMORPG. And you have to remember that Aventurine isnt as a big company as Blizzard. So id say they developed Darkfall quite fast.
What you have to do is to read up on the game my friend cause you lack alot of info on it.
God..either you never passed the reading lessons in school when you were a kid, or hooked on phonics was a complete scam, but if you didnt really noticed i said "back in 04" which even though that was when i joined MMORPG.com, i have been a extensive follower of Darkfall since...so basically i have the same "info" as you do....and keep in mind one thing...I was a HUGE supporter of the game before i even joined this site. God man....you need to read up more on the game yourself before you judge someone like me "friend"
I joined Darkfall forum as number 22 the year 2001 out of the 54573 members we have today so i can say pretty safely i followed the game longer then you. I definetly have more knowledge in the game since you dont even seem to know about there restart 2003.
Game were just about totally restarted midsummer 2003 and if you want a quote contest in the matter, just ask.
"If you tear down your house completely and rebuild it then you count the age of the building from the day you restarted building your new home"
Just out of curiosity, what is the next revolution in games as you see it? Age of Conan wasnt. Warhammer is WoW2. Darkfall seems way more a revolution to me then those two.
The Thread is so funny - i had to laugh several times about the posts; it is a good example for a absolutely pointless discussion. Darkfall Hahaha - Buhahahahaha; maybe there is a Darkfall on the devs harddrives but there is no way that it can compete with the current mmos. The only thing that i know is that a bunch of guys who thought that they would be competent enough to program a game spent way to much money on that project with no result. I am sure it wasnt only their own money; that means, there is someone out there who wants his money back - and of course some extra cash. But how to do this without a released game. Its simple paying credits with a new loan from someone else. But how to get the necessary creditworthiness? Thats not that simple and requires some skills in the field of storytelling and figurepainting. But it seems like the team is at least capable of that. So your questioning yourself what the devs are doing all the time and why there is no progress in the game development. The reason is that they are currently programming other stuff as well; perhaps business software or a screensaver with glitter and naked girls to create some turnover and to pay at least the interests of the various credits they have collected so far to calm the private and institutional investors. I am quite sure that this company has a serious problem with its liquidity and that it will sooner or later be object of prosecution due to insolvency protraction.
Best regards