Personal jabs truly are uncalled for, anyone can be an internet tough guy, but in response to the thread question (and the poll), looks like releasing it now, IS the majority choice. I just wanna play, whether it comes out Nov like planned, or later, there WILL be bugs, there always are. As with all online, continually updated MMORPG's, there will be more bugs to develop as well. If you like the game, stick with it, if not, find another. There is most certainly no Eutopia in online gaming.... we can always dream.
Hmmm... I remember these arguments when SWG was in beta.. ultimately the fanboyss that wanted the game ~NOW~ won out.. and that destroyed the game. The developers have a list of features that they want to get in the game, and get perfected and balanced before the release date (in SWG's case.. because of fanboy's begging for release many of those features weren't in the game at release, and had buggy implementations much later on.. and that game still seeks combat balance). The game should be released when it was absolutely ready, and while their is no utopia, and no absolutely bug free mmorpg out there, it would be unwise to release a game knowing it has bugs, and knowing that many of the release features aren't even in the game yet, and if that's the case right now with EQ2, then as a customer I personally would feel ripped off buying a half complete game, and then paying month after month hoping the originally promised features were being implemented. The president of SoE recently stated the game is about 70% complete, let's wait until it's 100% complete.
Originally posted by IowaYeti Personal jabs truly are uncalled for, anyone can be an internet tough guy,
agreed but Enigma225 was just asking for it with his paragraph of threats lol..Im actually proud that coldmeat took it was well as I did. Heh, if someone said that to me, well...I would TURN GREEN!
Originally posted by WizGamer Now hear me out, its just an opinion, I don't want yours. .
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
a very fair opinion jd, and after reading it, I agree, wow, you might very well have just made me realize why I cancelled my 3 (all more than a year old) SWG accts lol thx bud....
En1Gma, lol yeah I hear ya, it was taken quite well despite... cheers to him as well. I was harrassed recently on here beyond reproach, but it's over now, thank goodness. Tips a Colt 45 to ya both... hehe
Originally posted by En1Gma Originally posted by IowaYetiPersonal jabs truly are uncalled for, anyone can be an internet tough guy, agreed but Enigma225 was just asking for it with his paragraph of threats lol..Im actually proud that coldmeat took it was well as I did. Heh, if someone said that to me, well...I would TURN GREEN!
In responce to Yeti, yes I am in beta. I'm just not going to stress over every little thing I say concerning the game. It's not as if I'm selling copies of the client on the street corner, or posting maps, and something of that sort. I speak my mind, whether it's about video games, politics, whatever. And if they feel like removing me for what I have to say here, or on the beta boards, so be it.
Oh, and I think my bit of sarcasm in my reply to the 'other' Enigma' was well within bounds after the hope you burn remark. The rest of his post I could've cared less about, as far as insulting me goes.
04.09.25 SOE started seriously working EQ2 with the Velous expansion back in Dec 2000. They tested the engine update with the Lucin expansion Dec 2001. They tested CS options Feb/Mar '02 (Legends & subscription increase.) They got down to scripting with the PoP expansion Oct '02. They hoped to start the beta by Aug '03 but problems with instancing forced the LDoN expansion to flesh out those problems Sept '03, instead they resorted to in-house server alpha testing ( < 1400 testers.) Hopes were high to get to beta testing early 2004, instead they did LoE and promised beta slots to those that bought that RtS expansion ( more dev $.) By this time more than 80 % of the old EQ guys had been pushed out & replaced with swg guys. Hence EQ2 going in an entirely new direction/ "vision" compared to Verant's EQ. They started letting in Legends people about Jul '04 and by sept had over 4,000 in the beta. By mid sept they were even leting in euro types and LoE people. Recently Pres Smeadly indicated the "open beta" is soon, (that got huge #s freaking out about if or when they would get their invite,) since SOE has to send something to the CD & DVD pressers to get the product ready (2 to 3 weeks before) for packaging/ shipping/ retail ... that does not leave much time for beta testing, much less stress testing. Big problem with old EQ players will be the stiff audio capabilities EQ2 requires, as sound is a huge imersion factor. Many are still using 1990s integrated motherboard sound, and quite a few still use MX type cheapo GF2 gpu, and near 1GHz cpu. Imo, the bigest complaint those familiar with EQ will have will be the new CS in EQ2. Be advised, no more Guide showing up in 10 to 15 minutes to fix a problem you are having in game, more like 2 weeks, IF big IF the complaint 'ticket' actually gets bothered with. You know a problem posted in the EQ forum would get burried pages deep in just a day, figure what a similar bbs will have with 15 servers that generate near 100 problems a hour (ie. 100 X 24 X 15 = 36,000) will stack up daily!! Likely they will do like they did with swg, only one complaint at a time, instead of multible complaint/problem/tickets.
Wait until it's ready. Releasing a game of this magnitude that's not complete causes far more problems than it's worth. Pushing the game forward throws off the entire game. Time that could've been spent adding new materials (zones, loot, voices, skills, etc) is spent fixing bugs that the dev. team didn't have time to correct properly. Band-aid patches are constant and often make things worse than they were originally, "nerfing" becomes rampant all across the board, as dev's try frantically to balance out the classes before people quit the game. Nothing but bad things can really result, just think of it as the longer you wait, the better the game becomes. I'd wait until next year if I knew the game was improving on a constant basis.
SWG, started playing Day 1...or oops, I should say Day 2...or maybe it was Day 3...can't remember because you see the servers spent most of the time down or you couldn't get registered, or your client crashed during character creation. So, Day 2 or 3 finally got in game...can yah spell lag? Running through the cities was akin to crawling through mollasses. But god forbid the fanboi's not get their game now now now! The game sucked from the word "Go". Did I like it, yeah. I had fun for hte first couple of weeks until I maxxed out my toon in a couple of professions and then I spent most of my time actively trying to find something new and interesting and fun to do. Combat was borked. Seemed like every week some new class or combo was the shizznle(is that even a word?). So you had all the hardcore gamers migrating from bounty hunter, to pistoleer, to animal controllers, to commando, back to bounty hunter, to smuggler, to whatever the leet profession is now.
The game had so many problems it wasn't even funny. SoE was constantly playing catch up to implement things they wanted/gamers wanted/LucasArts wanted. Daily server downtimes of hours or more. Borked bots, pets, npcs, missions, theme parks.
Even if SWG fixed all of the problems they have, became the most lauded game on the internet, received outstanding reviews in all the computer magazines, and was the only thing people on the street talked about...I would still never go back. The game left such a bad taste in my mouth and I really really anticipated that game and was looking forward to it for months.
The moral here: People don't play broken games...they endure them and hope they get better. Sadly, they rarely get fixed...only more broken.
A lot of people aren't loyal enough to wait months and months for a game to come out. And even more people aren't patient at all and drop a game after their first free month is up if a game is too buggy. They don't want to push it because too many people will say, "Wow too buggy, lets try WoW.", and lose those folks that are in between the two games.
Probably why they aren't launching an Open Beta is to keep people on the edge of their seats. Most people think beta is the way the game will be, and always be. In stress tests they are totally right however, at least on how it will be for a good while. By not allowing a gigantic amount of people into beta and open beta they keep people from judging the game early and getting a free peak at the game. Why let people try a game for free when they would rather make you pay $50 to try it out.
i think i speak for almost everyone when i say, it BETTER BE OUT on 15th, hell i wouldn't mind paying for it now even lol just as long as i can crave this everlasting addiction...................:)
I look forward to the NDA being lifted in the next week or two so we can get some down and dirty assessments on the state of the game. With their current release date they have maybe a month of working on it before it must ship off to CD land, then they are left with what they can download patch from there on out until release.
I don't know what their strategy is. These days many games, like WoW, seem to use a huge extended open beta not just for bug fixing but for publicity. The long beta lets the fansites start rolling out in force and the hype build, ect. If EQ2 is going to follow that model then I bet this release date will definately be pushed back. But if they are just being tight lipped, sticking to a short open beta just for load testing, then it could still come out the Nov 15th easy.
Guess we will find out, but I definately would like a working game upon release rather than a rush job. I still have nightmares of playing the opening days of AO's release. The Horror... the horror...
Originally posted by bhug Imo, the bigest complaint those familiar with EQ will have will be the new CS in EQ2. Be advised, no more Guide showing up in 10 to 15 minutes to fix a problem you are having in game, more like 2 weeks, IF big IF the complaint 'ticket' actually gets bothered with. You know a problem posted in the EQ forum would get burried pages deep in just a day, figure what a similar bbs will have with 15 servers that generate near 100 problems a hour (ie. 100 X 24 X 15 = 36,000) will stack up daily!! Likely they will do like they did with swg, only one complaint at a time, instead of multible complaint/problem/tickets.
Bhug,
It sounds like you know what you're talking about, and I've thought about CS issues also. CS was not a strong suit in EQ1, and it sounds like that will get worse in EQ2. I'm excited about the game, and not particularly concerned with glitches, but bad CS on legitimate issues can put a damper on things even for the most enthusiastic supporter. Any idea how SOE plans to address this issue?
Personally I agree with what some of the others said; releasing a game of this magnitude (or any game for that matter) before it has been thoroughly tested is stupendious. However, I would like to hear what you guys think regarding expansions - will they release 100+ expansions as they did with EQ1?
I never played EQ1 (I played Ultima Online instead ) But I couldn't help notice the massive amounts of expansions littering some of my gaming friends floors. I hope they will keep them to a minimum.
-Sirian
- Most certainly the power harnessed from within will aid you in times of need dear brother.
- Most certainly the power harnessed from within will aid you in times of need dear brother.
Releasing the game early would result in a horrible game experience in which everyone who wasn't a die-hard fanboi would quit, and the game would ultimately fail or never live up to its true potential (i.e. AO). I know how badly you guys want to play this game, but its just selfish to want them to release it with the bugs, lack of content, balancing issues etc. of its current state. In fact, I would be really surprised if its ready by nov 15, but they might still release it then because of holiday season and wanting to jump the gun on other games.
Interesting the way things are shaping up for the release of two ultra MMORPG's this winter. Is there an advantage to be the first one to release? I think there may be if the release is in fact polished and ready to play without a lot of bugs and crap like has been foisted on us by unnamed titles to numerous to mention. Of course the two titles I refer to are EQ2 and WOW. EQ has the advantage of the most sucessfull online RPG to date! This alone almost guarantees several hundred thousand intial subscribers. SWG had a huge intial subscriber base but has deteriorated from there because of a premature poorly thoughtout release. Hopefully SOE has learned from this serious mistake. The original EQ was released with only UO as any real competition. There is a lot of competition currently making top quality initial releases all the more important. There main contender for subscribers is going to be WOW without a doubt. WOW has no NDA so the information on this game has been freeflowing from the getgo. It's beta has been an open book that any who care to delve through can find out what is usually hidden by the developers. I commend Blizzard for this fresh approach to game development, letting it all hang out so to speak, and giving the entire community a looksee into the process of beta. SOE on the otherhand has implemented the NDA style of beta, with very little information freeflowing unless filtered by the development team. This is the safe approach to be sure, just interesting to note that there main competition has broken this mold of secretive worldbuilding. The reason this style concerns me can be summed in in one word.............Horizons.........nuff said. I have tried out numerous MMORPG's that I left in less than a month. I have never gone back to one of these after deciding that they weren't for me initially. A smooth polished.......playable launch is imperitive in this competitive atmosphere. I'm not a fanboy of any particular game, but I am most deffinitly a MMORPG fanboy and look foward to my next foray into an alternate reality. I will be getting WOW for sure just because I know more about it! Time will tell how long I stay.
All you need to do is look at the latest news posting on this site for Horizons, and you'll see what a pushed release gets you...
This game should be released when it's ready... 100k sales and LASTING subs after Christmas is worth MUCH more than 50k sales and cancelled subs AT Christmas.
We always want a mmorpg to come out fast and if it comes out with problems we are fast to attack it.
I myself am very guilty of it.I joined the AO chatroom when it first opened like close to 2 years or so before launch.
I was one of those that really looked forward to AO and would push the developers anytime they came into the chatroom to rush the game to release no matter the state and fix it then(sorry Tore Andre).
Basically i so looked forward to this game i was sure i would stick thru anything.You know what after 3 weeks from release i was a notorious troll and new found hater of AO.
To be honest i think it was a great game but like all humans i hit my breaking point with the issues it had.
And i left never to return again after the second month.
And so did many AO fans.Basically any mmorpg should look and say is this game fit for release before doing it.
Listening to the fans to push out a mmorpg asap has never proven to be a right decision.
Originally posted by Enigma225 The only true game I ever was obsesed and loved was EQ because all my friends played it. After awile EQ stared to become ruined with all the expansions and economy flucuations that all of us quit. Another thing I really miss the grouping in EQ before PoP came out because they were actually groups all over the place and they were really fun to fight in. At this point in time I have waited long enough for EQ 2 and I would love to start lvling despite the game not being perfect yet I the kind of person who can suffer the bugs. I really just want to start lvling and learn the basics of the game + I know everyone who is going to get into EQ 2 would purchase the game if it came out today despit the bugs. What im really hoping for is a November 15th release despite it being perfect ... I hope all you EQ fans agree that this game needs to come out soon or were gona go bonkers! At least I know I am =P
EVERYTHING about this is true. Inflation kicked in on EQlive and it was ok but people could tell it was getting bad. I posted the statement (about 6months ago) on eqii.com about the release of EQ2 should be sooner rather then later, and Morgard quoted me and told me that they wanted everything to flow and everything to make sence (lore stuff). I also stated that they could fix everything during routine server checks and fixes, but he didn't like that either.
However, I really really really want EQ2 to come out very soon. I even purchased an entirely new system for the game to come out.
I am ready for EQ2. Im sure there will be alot of stuff that is not complete, but Im sure its alot more complete that alot of other releases that came before it!
Comments
~Yeti
~Yeti
agreed but Enigma225 was just asking for it with his paragraph of threats lol..Im actually proud that coldmeat took it was well as I did. Heh, if someone said that to me, well...I would TURN GREEN!
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
~Yeti
~Yeti
~Yeti
~Yeti
In responce to Yeti, yes I am in beta. I'm just not going to stress over every little thing I say concerning the game. It's not as if I'm selling copies of the client on the street corner, or posting maps, and something of that sort. I speak my mind, whether it's about video games, politics, whatever. And if they feel like removing me for what I have to say here, or on the beta boards, so be it.
Oh, and I think my bit of sarcasm in my reply to the 'other' Enigma' was well within bounds after the hope you burn remark. The rest of his post I could've cared less about, as far as insulting me goes.
04.09.25
SOE started seriously working EQ2 with the Velous expansion back in Dec 2000. They tested the engine update with the Lucin expansion Dec 2001. They tested CS options Feb/Mar '02 (Legends & subscription increase.) They got down to scripting with the PoP expansion Oct '02. They hoped to start the beta by Aug '03 but problems with instancing forced the LDoN expansion to flesh out those problems Sept '03, instead they resorted to in-house server alpha testing ( < 1400 testers.) Hopes were high to get to beta testing early 2004, instead they did LoE and promised beta slots to those that bought that RtS expansion ( more dev $.) By this time more than 80 % of the old EQ guys had been pushed out & replaced with swg guys. Hence EQ2 going in an entirely new direction/ "vision" compared to Verant's EQ.
They started letting in Legends people about Jul '04 and by sept had over 4,000 in the beta. By mid sept they were even leting in euro types and LoE people. Recently Pres Smeadly indicated the "open beta" is soon, (that got huge #s freaking out about if or when they would get their invite,) since SOE has to send something to the CD & DVD pressers to get the product ready (2 to 3 weeks before) for packaging/ shipping/ retail ... that does not leave much time for beta testing, much less stress testing.
Big problem with old EQ players will be the stiff audio capabilities EQ2 requires, as sound is a huge imersion factor. Many are still using 1990s integrated motherboard sound, and quite a few still use MX type cheapo GF2 gpu, and near 1GHz cpu.
Imo, the bigest complaint those familiar with EQ will have will be the new CS in EQ2. Be advised, no more Guide showing up in 10 to 15 minutes to fix a problem you are having in game, more like 2 weeks, IF big IF the complaint 'ticket' actually gets bothered with. You know a problem posted in the EQ forum would get burried pages deep in just a day, figure what a similar bbs will have with 15 servers that generate near 100 problems a hour (ie. 100 X 24 X 15 = 36,000) will stack up daily!! Likely they will do like they did with swg, only one complaint at a time, instead of multible complaint/problem/tickets.
~Yeti
~Yeti
-Elos the Sage
-Elos the Sage
I say wait.
You need examples. Fine.
AO and SWG.
SWG, started playing Day 1...or oops, I should say Day 2...or maybe it was Day 3...can't remember because you see the servers spent most of the time down or you couldn't get registered, or your client crashed during character creation. So, Day 2 or 3 finally got in game...can yah spell lag? Running through the cities was akin to crawling through mollasses. But god forbid the fanboi's not get their game now now now! The game sucked from the word "Go". Did I like it, yeah. I had fun for hte first couple of weeks until I maxxed out my toon in a couple of professions and then I spent most of my time actively trying to find something new and interesting and fun to do. Combat was borked. Seemed like every week some new class or combo was the shizznle(is that even a word?). So you had all the hardcore gamers migrating from bounty hunter, to pistoleer, to animal controllers, to commando, back to bounty hunter, to smuggler, to whatever the leet profession is now.
The game had so many problems it wasn't even funny. SoE was constantly playing catch up to implement things they wanted/gamers wanted/LucasArts wanted. Daily server downtimes of hours or more. Borked bots, pets, npcs, missions, theme parks.
Even if SWG fixed all of the problems they have, became the most lauded game on the internet, received outstanding reviews in all the computer magazines, and was the only thing people on the street talked about...I would still never go back. The game left such a bad taste in my mouth and I really really anticipated that game and was looking forward to it for months.
The moral here: People don't play broken games...they endure them and hope they get better. Sadly, they rarely get fixed...only more broken.
Faydeaway
A lot of people aren't loyal enough to wait months and months for a game to come out. And even more people aren't patient at all and drop a game after their first free month is up if a game is too buggy. They don't want to push it because too many people will say, "Wow too buggy, lets try WoW.", and lose those folks that are in between the two games.
Probably why they aren't launching an Open Beta is to keep people on the edge of their seats. Most people think beta is the way the game will be, and always be. In stress tests they are totally right however, at least on how it will be for a good while. By not allowing a gigantic amount of people into beta and open beta they keep people from judging the game early and getting a free peak at the game. Why let people try a game for free when they would rather make you pay $50 to try it out.
I would be very happy if theyd just start selling copies now, with bugs and all. I would be very happy with paying for beta.
I look forward to the NDA being lifted in the next week or two so we can get some down and dirty assessments on the state of the game. With their current release date they have maybe a month of working on it before it must ship off to CD land, then they are left with what they can download patch from there on out until release.
I don't know what their strategy is. These days many games, like WoW, seem to use a huge extended open beta not just for bug fixing but for publicity. The long beta lets the fansites start rolling out in force and the hype build, ect. If EQ2 is going to follow that model then I bet this release date will definately be pushed back. But if they are just being tight lipped, sticking to a short open beta just for load testing, then it could still come out the Nov 15th easy.
Guess we will find out, but I definately would like a working game upon release rather than a rush job. I still have nightmares of playing the opening days of AO's release. The Horror... the horror...
Bhug,
It sounds like you know what you're talking about, and I've thought about CS issues also. CS was not a strong suit in EQ1, and it sounds like that will get worse in EQ2. I'm excited about the game, and not particularly concerned with glitches, but bad CS on legitimate issues can put a damper on things even for the most enthusiastic supporter. Any idea how SOE plans to address this issue?
Minxx
Minxx
Personally I agree with what some of the others said; releasing a game of this magnitude (or any game for that matter) before it has been thoroughly tested is stupendious. However, I would like to hear what you guys think regarding expansions - will they release 100+ expansions as they did with EQ1?
I never played EQ1 (I played Ultima Online instead
) But I couldn't help notice the massive amounts of expansions littering some of my gaming friends floors. I hope they will keep them to a minimum.
-Sirian
- Most certainly the power harnessed from within will aid you in times of need dear brother.
- Most certainly the power harnessed from within will aid you in times of need dear brother.
Releasing the game early would result in a horrible game experience in which everyone who wasn't a die-hard fanboi would quit, and the game would ultimately fail or never live up to its true potential (i.e. AO). I know how badly you guys want to play this game, but its just selfish to want them to release it with the bugs, lack of content, balancing issues etc. of its current state. In fact, I would be really surprised if its ready by nov 15, but they might still release it then because of holiday season and wanting to jump the gun on other games.
Interesting the way things are shaping up for the release of two ultra MMORPG's this winter. Is there an advantage to be the first one to release? I think there may be if the release is in fact polished and ready to play without a lot of bugs and crap like has been foisted on us by unnamed titles to numerous to mention.
Of course the two titles I refer to are EQ2 and WOW. EQ has the advantage of the most sucessfull online RPG to date! This alone almost guarantees several hundred thousand intial subscribers. SWG had a huge intial subscriber base but has deteriorated from there because of a premature poorly thoughtout release. Hopefully SOE has learned from this serious mistake.
The original EQ was released with only UO as any real competition. There is a lot of competition currently making top quality initial releases all the more important. There main contender for subscribers is going to be WOW without a doubt. WOW has no NDA so the information on this game has been freeflowing from the getgo. It's beta has been an open book that any who care to delve through can find out what is usually hidden by the developers. I commend Blizzard for this fresh approach to game development, letting it all hang out so to speak, and giving the entire community a looksee into the process of beta.
SOE on the otherhand has implemented the NDA style of beta, with very little information freeflowing unless filtered by the development team. This is the safe approach to be sure, just interesting to note that there main competition has broken this mold of secretive worldbuilding. The reason this style concerns me can be summed in in one word.............Horizons.........nuff said.
I have tried out numerous MMORPG's that I left in less than a month. I have never gone back to one of these after deciding that they weren't for me initially. A smooth polished.......playable launch is imperitive in this competitive atmosphere.
I'm not a fanboy of any particular game, but I am most deffinitly a MMORPG fanboy and look foward to my next foray into an alternate reality.
I will be getting WOW for sure just because I know more about it! Time will tell how long I stay.
All you need to do is look at the latest news posting on this site for Horizons, and you'll see what a pushed release gets you...
This game should be released when it's ready... 100k sales and LASTING subs after Christmas is worth MUCH more than 50k sales and cancelled subs AT Christmas.
We always want a mmorpg to come out fast and if it comes out with problems we are fast to attack it.
I myself am very guilty of it.I joined the AO chatroom when it first opened like close to 2 years or so before launch.
I was one of those that really looked forward to AO and would push the developers anytime they came into the chatroom to rush the game to release no matter the state and fix it then(sorry Tore Andre
).
Basically i so looked forward to this game i was sure i would stick thru anything.You know what after 3 weeks from release i was a notorious troll and new found hater of AO.
To be honest i think it was a great game but like all humans i hit my breaking point with the issues it had.
And i left never to return again after the second month.
And so did many AO fans.Basically any mmorpg should look and say is this game fit for release before doing it.
Listening to the fans to push out a mmorpg asap has never proven to be a right decision.
EVERYTHING about this is true. Inflation kicked in on EQlive and it was ok but people could tell it was getting bad. I posted the statement (about 6months ago) on eqii.com about the release of EQ2 should be sooner rather then later, and Morgard quoted me and told me that they wanted everything to flow and everything to make sence (lore stuff). I also stated that they could fix everything during routine server checks and fixes, but he didn't like that either.
However, I really really really want EQ2 to come out very soon. I even purchased an entirely new system for the game to come out.
