yea definitely a niche game, and the fans of DF wouldnt have it any other way. What makes these games great is the community and the fact that game is designed to appease a specific audience, so that audience is obviously going to love it.
WoW is a great game. It is. Sorry but it is. Is it my kind of game? I played it because it was fun and my guild needed a new game. Is it my kind of game? Nope. WoW is a game with a very low barrier of entry which business wise is insanely smart and they obviously know what they are doing. And some people want nothing more out of a MMO, and thats great for them.
But DF's feature list is just drooltastic for some of us. I personally love the sandboxy structure of EVE and played it for awhile, but im definitely more into the fantasy setting or at least being able to see my character and interact on a world rather than the sci-fi aspect. Minus SWG pre-nge...we played the hell out of that game and i miss it.
Saying you're going to release a game and actually doing it are two completely different things. So calm down DF fans because nothing has been presented to the public yet Your gloating is a bit premature. Is this game vaporware? Probably not. Will this game release with all the great claims of the devs? Most assuredly not. Will this game be a p.o.s? Damn good chance. Once again as others have said... If this game comes out in all it's glory as the fanboys and devs have claimed. Then I too will come back to these boards and say I was wrong.
im sooo not letting some trolls off on this. you, i have no idea about, so of course ill just believe that you have always thought the game was real, just crappy.
but sorry trolls, you are not allowed to say what the above poster said. the vast vast minority of DF skeptics have stated the opinion you just made. the vast majority have called it vaporware and never going to release...NEVER. or its a big hoax.
sorry but ya dont get to have your credibility back by saying it must be in bad shape. you ignored all the clear signs and piggybacked on wild theories because it was popular and sounded cool to call it vaporware.
And it doesnt have to release in a glorious wave of mmo goodness...it just has to have a solid release (stability wise) that is typical of the genre and have most of the features that was stated it would have. If they say before we put any money into it...hey ships are still in, but cannons need some tweaking and didnt make it, then that hardly makes it a failure because it left out some features.
I challenge you to find any post I made claiming DF was vaporware. You won't find one, because I never said it was. I in my opinion think the devs really wanted to make an excellent game. But for lack of many things (experience and money among others) they got in over their heads and here is where we are now.
So please don't categorize me. You just look like a fool.
Saying you're going to release a game and actually doing it are two completely different things. So calm down DF fans because nothing has been presented to the public yet Your gloating is a bit premature. Is this game vaporware? Probably not. Will this game release with all the great claims of the devs? Most assuredly not. Will this game be a p.o.s? Damn good chance. Once again as others have said... If this game comes out in all it's glory as the fanboys and devs have claimed. Then I too will come back to these boards and say I was wrong.
im sooo not letting some trolls off on this. you, i have no idea about, so of course ill just believe that you have always thought the game was real, just crappy.
but sorry trolls, you are not allowed to say what the above poster said. the vast vast minority of DF skeptics have stated the opinion you just made. the vast majority have called it vaporware and never going to release...NEVER. or its a big hoax.
sorry but ya dont get to have your credibility back by saying it must be in bad shape. you ignored all the clear signs and piggybacked on wild theories because it was popular and sounded cool to call it vaporware.
And it doesnt have to release in a glorious wave of mmo goodness...it just has to have a solid release (stability wise) that is typical of the genre and have most of the features that was stated it would have. If they say before we put any money into it...hey ships are still in, but cannons need some tweaking and didnt make it, then that hardly makes it a failure because it left out some features.
I challenge you to find any post I made claiming DF was vaporware. You won't find one, because I never said it was. I in my opinion think the devs really wanted to make an excellent game. But for lack of many things (experience and money among others) they got in over their heads and here is where we are now.
So please don't categorize me. You just look like a fool.
you have no base for that kind of theory so why dont you give it a rest?
So lets let me get this Straight. The haters are now claiming that it is not Vaporware but that the game will be shitty and it is being rushed out the door.
Hmmm I dont know what to say.... Its amazing that last week these same people were trolling about how long Darkfall is taking and because its been 7 years its vaporware... now after 7 years its beening rushed out the door. Priceless
Make up your mind haters... is it Vaporware because of the long development cycle or is being rushed out the door because of its long development cycle?
Logging into MMORPG.com - 0 dollars
Reading the Darkfall forum - 0 dollars
Debating with trolls - 0 dollars
Watching the trolls change their story to fit the latest news - priceless
I love those guys that, from behind a computer screen, make the goal of their life to "save people from bad ass MMORPG devs" We all thank you and all the one like you that throw garbage to a "game" just to save us that excited wait for a new cool game. I thank you all to kill the joy and happiness we can have waiting for a "different" game I will never enough thank you for just ruin every single post where we gather to cheerfully share new info about the game I definitely thank you to remember me that the world sux people is just a bunch of lier and most of the time all everybody care is money... I for sure am so blind and stupid to need YOU remind me all this... so if you ever see me smile or just enjoy something please come and punch my face and remind me that life sux!
I gotta love those people that save me from being a little happy.
The best attempt to shed light on the consequences of troll attitude ever. wow you just have spoken of the feelings of thousands in 7 sentences in the most effective way.
So lets let me get this Straight. The haters are now claiming that it is not Vaporware but that the game will be shitty and it is being rushed out the door. Hmmm I dont know what to say.... Its amazing that last week these same people were trolling about how long Darkfall is taking and because its been 7 years its vaporware... now after 7 years its beening rushed out the door. Priceless Make up your mind haters... is it Vaporware because of the long development cycle or is being rushed out the door because of its long development cycle? Logging into MMORPG.com - 0 dollars Reading the Darkfall forum - 0 dollars Debating with trolls - 0 dollars Watching the trolls change their story to fit the latest news - priceless
So lets let me get this Straight. The haters are now claiming that it is not Vaporware but that the game will be shitty and it is being rushed out the door. Hmmm I dont know what to say.... Its amazing that last week these same people were trolling about how long Darkfall is taking and because its been 7 years its vaporware... now after 7 years its beening rushed out the door. Priceless Make up your mind haters... is it Vaporware because of the long development cycle or is being rushed out the door because of its long development cycle? Logging into MMORPG.com - 0 dollars Reading the Darkfall forum - 0 dollars Debating with trolls - 0 dollars Watching the trolls change their story to fit the latest news - priceless
You're not a very bright one, are you?
Lets talk about vaporware. Like DNF, the phantom console, etc. Here is the wiki definition of vaporware:
Vaporware is a somewhat derogatory term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar software/hardware product. The term implies unwarranted optimism, an as yet unannounced abandonment of a project, or sometimes even deception; that is, it may imply that the announcer knows that product development is in too early a stage to support responsible statements about its completion date, feature set, or even feasibility. However, most vaporware would not be considered a hoax since the makers have a genuine intention to create their product, even if it ultimately never materializes. Products with unspecified release dates or long development times that outwardly demonstrate regular, verifiable progress in production are not normally labelled vaporware.
So, if you had the slightest idea what you were blabbering about, you'd see several things:
1. DF obviously fits the definiton of vaporware. Hell, it should be listed as an example.
2. The title of "vaporware" has already been earned. DF could magically reach 100% completion tonight and come out tomorrow. It would still be vaporware.
3. Financial reality may be setting in...since it is fairly clear that DF is not a hoax, the game eventually has to be a) abandoned or b) released. B is more attractive as it means SOME money can be recouped.
4. Same thing happend w/ VG between Microsoft and SOE. We all know what VG was like at release, and it definitely had well-documented development and an extended closed / open beta.
5. Something usually does come out of vaporware...the phantom console / service became...the phantom lapboard.
So, short version: Yes, its vaporware. It either will be eventually abandoned, or will be released in a horrid state simply to get some of the money invested back. No, it doesn't matter which happens.
yea definitely a niche game, and the fans of DF wouldnt have it any other way. What makes these games great is the community and the fact that game is designed to appease a specific audience, so that audience is obviously going to love it. WoW is a great game. It is. Sorry but it is. Is it my kind of game? I played it because it was fun and my guild needed a new game. Is it my kind of game? Nope. WoW is a game with a very low barrier of entry which business wise is insanely smart and they obviously know what they are doing. And some people want nothing more out of a MMO, and thats great for them. But DF's feature list is just drooltastic for some of us. I personally love the sandboxy structure of EVE and played it for awhile, but im definitely more into the fantasy setting or at least being able to see my character and interact on a world rather than the sci-fi aspect. Minus SWG pre-nge...we played the hell out of that game and i miss it.
I'm with you and im in that small minority, but the problem with niche is msall minority. How many niche games have lived on? The prolbem with these games is that the community is so small, there is no funding, and the game eventually goes the way of the doe doe.
But then again, i guess UO is still going. I can't believe people still play it
How much more obvious can it be? They are kicking this thing out the door. It's so obvious. Just look at the facts. They signed away their rights to a "publisher" who has absolutely no experience in video games. Gave them right to the ENTIRE world. Who does that if they have options? Nobody. Because they had no other options. They are claiming the game will launch in 2008. How long can a beta be when theres less then 4 months left in the year? A few short weeks at most? They are booting this out.. Just like Ubisoft finally did to Shadowbane. Bug ridden and outdated. My congrats go out to Aventurine.
If they have signed the entire rights away then this is ominous news for the game as nobody would do such a thing unless it sucked.
It's not very clear if thats what they have actually done, will have to wait for more details.
It does look very suspicious though. I am looking forward to this game and even I admit it.
I agree - the game is being rushed out. How can I say that, when the game has been in dev since 2000? Simple. They have given a release date before they have had a significant beta test. That, my friends, is bass-ackwards. It is called a test for a reason - you dont know the outcome.
On one hand, they say the game will release within 2008. On the other hand, they say the beta will run as long as needed. Doesnt anyone else see the problem with those statements? In a worst case scenerio, they cant both be true. Hell, it would not even take a worst case scenerio, as they only left themselves a few months. I would expect 6 months to be a VERY short beta for a game as complex as DF.
I would speculate that the powers that be (the money guys) have said enough is enough. I expect launch in 2008, ready or not. Most likely, not.
For you fans out there, dont get all cranky on me. Of course I might be wrong. The other scenerio is that the game is ready, public beta will run smoothly, and launch will be on time AND good. But occam's razor usually cuts true, so I will go with the scenerio that does not require perfection in every step along the way to release.
I agree - the game is being rushed out. How can I say that, when the game has been in dev since 2000? Simple. They have given a release date before they have had a significant beta test. That, my friends, is bass-ackwards. It is called a test for a reason - you dont know the outcome. On one hand, they say the game will release within 2008. On the other hand, they say the beta will run as long as needed. Doesnt anyone else see the problem with those statements? In a worst case scenerio, they cant both be true. Hell, it would not even take a worst case scenerio, as they only left themselves a few months. I would expect 6 months to be a VERY short beta for a game as complex as DF. I would speculate that the powers that be (the money guys) have said enough is enough. I expect launch in 2008, ready or not. Most likely, not. For you fans out there, dont get all cranky on me. Of course I might be wrong. The other scenerio is that the game is ready, public beta will run smoothly, and launch will be on time AND good. But occam's razor usually cuts true, so I will go with the scenerio that does not require perfection in every step along the way to release.
They haven't given us a release date, except for the 2008 estimate. It's the beta date indeed. Also, the beta will mostly be a PR trial of the game, not an actual test. The game has been in closed beta for a long time now, where most of the actual testing has been done.
I'm not sure, but I believe I read something about payed-beta testers. If this is true, I think it will honestly be for the best. I'm not sure though. I don't recall where I read it at. I'll have to find the link. I hope so. It'd be nice to see its on its way to completetion. I believe a few months ago they officially announced their stock. So, something has to be going on.
I'm amazed that men like you can be so shallow, thick and slow. There is not a man among you who will care whether I come or go....not one...not one of you
I'm not sure, but I believe I read something about payed-beta testers. If this is true, I think it will honestly be for the best. I'm not sure though. I don't recall where I read it at. I'll have to find the link. I hope so. It'd be nice to see its on its way to completetion. I believe a few months ago they officially announced their stock. So, something has to be going on.
Yes, the closed beta has professional testers only. The "beta" for us, will be a promotional pilot test for most of the part.
Is this endless debate remarkable? Both sides putting up such a lengthy argument and yet after years, it is still the same old stalemate. Why?
Simple, because aventurine has NOT issued any materials worthy of substance. Long text of words, frequently through unidentifiable persons, fans friends, whoever he is we never know. Or claims from the developer, in broad brush text : AIs that help beta test. How does it work? How does it help, in which aspect?
So the rest of the people here can argue and talk and argue and talk. But no one can disprove anyone b/c no one can prove anything.
This leads to the final proposition here: aventurine is not stupid, the tasos or whoever he is is not stupid. He is very clever, he blow his horn and then bury himself deep in the ground, occasionally yelling and making some smoke or dust thru his hell hole. We can never prove he is right or wrong, we never know who where he is. We never know anything, and for 7 years we know nothing.
How long will this last? God knows, or maybe even god does not know. Keep the argument going. Its just like a soap opera, watch and forget.
They haven't given us a release date, except for the 2008 estimate. It's the beta date indeed. Also, the beta will mostly be a PR trial of the game, not an actual test. The game has been in closed beta for a long time now, where most of the actual testing has been done.
They said the game will launch within 2008, with public beta proceeding it by a few weeks. If you want to get picky, the latest possible release date within 2008 would be Dec 31.
Yes, they have been in closed beta. A longer one than normal. That still will not be a substitute for large scale testing, IMO. They will be in for a rude awakening if they rely too heavily on tools and simulations.
And we can be fairly confident the "pro testers" largely consist of the local college interns they were recruiting.
All this makes it tough for me to have a warm fuzzy about the state of the game. YMMV.
So lets let me get this Straight. The haters are now claiming that it is not Vaporware but that the game will be shitty and it is being rushed out the door.
Hmmm I dont know what to say.... Its amazing that last week these same people were trolling about how long Darkfall is taking and because its been 7 years its vaporware... now after 7 years its beening rushed out the door. Priceless
Make up your mind haters... is it Vaporware because of the long development cycle or is being rushed out the door because of its long development cycle?
Logging into MMORPG.com - 0 dollars
Reading the Darkfall forum - 0 dollars
Debating with trolls - 0 dollars
Watching the trolls change their story to fit the latest news - priceless
So lets let me get this Straight. The haters are now claiming that it is not Vaporware but that the game will be shitty and it is being rushed out the door. Hmmm I dont know what to say.... Its amazing that last week these same people were trolling about how long Darkfall is taking and because its been 7 years its vaporware... now after 7 years its beening rushed out the door. Priceless Make up your mind haters... is it Vaporware because of the long development cycle or is being rushed out the door because of its long development cycle? Logging into MMORPG.com - 0 dollars Reading the Darkfall forum - 0 dollars Debating with trolls - 0 dollars Watching the trolls change their story to fit the latest news - priceless
You're not a very bright one, are you?
Lets talk about vaporware. Like DNF, the phantom console, etc. Here is the wiki definition of vaporware:
Vaporware is a somewhat derogatory term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar software/hardware product. The term implies unwarranted optimism, an as yet unannounced abandonment of a project, or sometimes even deception; that is, it may imply that the announcer knows that product development is in too early a stage to support responsible statements about its completion date, feature set, or even feasibility. However, most vaporware would not be considered a hoax since the makers have a genuine intention to create their product, even if it ultimately never materializes. Products with unspecified release dates or long development times that outwardly demonstrate regular, verifiable progress in production are not normally labelled vaporware.
So, if you had the slightest idea what you were blabbering about, you'd see several things:
1. DF obviously fits the definiton of vaporware. Hell, it should be listed as an example.
2. The title of "vaporware" has already been earned. DF could magically reach 100% completion tonight and come out tomorrow. It would still be vaporware.
3. Financial reality may be setting in...since it is fairly clear that DF is not a hoax, the game eventually has to be a) abandoned or b) released. B is more attractive as it means SOME money can be recouped.
4. Same thing happend w/ VG between Microsoft and SOE. We all know what VG was like at release, and it definitely had well-documented development and an extended closed / open beta.
5. Something usually does come out of vaporware...the phantom console / service became...the phantom lapboard.
So, short version: Yes, its vaporware. It either will be eventually abandoned, or will be released in a horrid state simply to get some of the money invested back. No, it doesn't matter which happens.
Now, kindly STFU and return to fantasy land.
quoting and highlighting the 2 funniest parts of your post - the part that disproves your theory that you yourself quoted, and the part where you pwn yourself.
So lets let me get this Straight. The haters are now claiming that it is not Vaporware but that the game will be shitty and it is being rushed out the door. Hmmm I dont know what to say.... Its amazing that last week these same people were trolling about how long Darkfall is taking and because its been 7 years its vaporware... now after 7 years its beening rushed out the door. Priceless Make up your mind haters... is it Vaporware because of the long development cycle or is being rushed out the door because of its long development cycle? Logging into MMORPG.com - 0 dollars Reading the Darkfall forum - 0 dollars Debating with trolls - 0 dollars Watching the trolls change their story to fit the latest news - priceless
So lets let me get this Straight. The haters are now claiming that it is not Vaporware but that the game will be shitty and it is being rushed out the door. Hmmm I dont know what to say.... Its amazing that last week these same people were trolling about how long Darkfall is taking and because its been 7 years its vaporware... now after 7 years its beening rushed out the door. Priceless Make up your mind haters... is it Vaporware because of the long development cycle or is being rushed out the door because of its long development cycle? Logging into MMORPG.com - 0 dollars Reading the Darkfall forum - 0 dollars Debating with trolls - 0 dollars Watching the trolls change their story to fit the latest news - priceless
You're not a very bright one, are you?
Lets talk about vaporware. Like DNF, the phantom console, etc. Here is the wiki definition of vaporware:
Vaporware is a somewhat derogatory term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar software/hardware product. The term implies unwarranted optimism, an as yet unannounced abandonment of a project, or sometimes even deception; that is, it may imply that the announcer knows that product development is in too early a stage to support responsible statements about its completion date, feature set, or even feasibility. However, most vaporware would not be considered a hoax since the makers have a genuine intention to create their product, even if it ultimately never materializes. Products with unspecified release dates or long development times that outwardly demonstrate regular, verifiable progress in production are not normally labelled vaporware.
So, if you had the slightest idea what you were blabbering about, you'd see several things:
1. DF obviously fits the definiton of vaporware. Hell, it should be listed as an example.
2. The title of "vaporware" has already been earned. DF could magically reach 100% completion tonight and come out tomorrow. It would still be vaporware.
3. Financial reality may be setting in...since it is fairly clear that DF is not a hoax, the game eventually has to be a) abandoned or b) released. B is more attractive as it means SOME money can be recouped.
4. Same thing happend w/ VG between Microsoft and SOE. We all know what VG was like at release, and it definitely had well-documented development and an extended closed / open beta.
5. Something usually does come out of vaporware...the phantom console / service became...the phantom lapboard.
So, short version: Yes, its vaporware. It either will be eventually abandoned, or will be released in a horrid state simply to get some of the money invested back. No, it doesn't matter which happens.
Now, kindly STFU and return to fantasy land.
quoting and highlighting the 2 funniest parts of your post - the part that disproves your theory that you yourself quoted, and the part where you pwn yourself.
Javac, please read what is in the blue...Then show me how the eight years of development on Darkfall have been verified...Really...Show me an ounce of evidence other than quoted statements of Tasos (who isn't the most trustworthy of men) that backs your claim.
I apologize Javac, but Darkfall is vaporware, and will continue to be so until it is released. Even THEN it can still be considered vaporware if the game is far from the standards set by Adventurine.
But really, what does a label mean? Fucking nothing, idiot. The fact is we've another promise to wait for, and we still don't have that video we were waiting on... Fucking shit...
------------------------------- It's honestly like everyone logs onto WoW, and games like WoW, just to masturbate. Everyone plays by themselves, and when they don't, they get what they want and get off. ------------------------------- Originally posted by atziluth... Ah yes when the unreasonable are faced with reason they must resort to personal attacks...When you are ready to move up from the kids table you can talk with the grown ups.
That definition of vaporware was written for Darkfall! I always thought vaporware meant hoax, but apparently not. There have been no demonstrations of verifiable progress, just a bit of carrot-dangling. It's not the same at all. They use verifiable for a reason. Tasos has given as little as he can while keeping the gullible happy.
Comments
yea definitely a niche game, and the fans of DF wouldnt have it any other way. What makes these games great is the community and the fact that game is designed to appease a specific audience, so that audience is obviously going to love it.
WoW is a great game. It is. Sorry but it is. Is it my kind of game? I played it because it was fun and my guild needed a new game. Is it my kind of game? Nope. WoW is a game with a very low barrier of entry which business wise is insanely smart and they obviously know what they are doing. And some people want nothing more out of a MMO, and thats great for them.
But DF's feature list is just drooltastic for some of us. I personally love the sandboxy structure of EVE and played it for awhile, but im definitely more into the fantasy setting or at least being able to see my character and interact on a world rather than the sci-fi aspect. Minus SWG pre-nge...we played the hell out of that game and i miss it.
---sig---
Click this for lulz: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/173737/page/6
im sooo not letting some trolls off on this. you, i have no idea about, so of course ill just believe that you have always thought the game was real, just crappy.
but sorry trolls, you are not allowed to say what the above poster said. the vast vast minority of DF skeptics have stated the opinion you just made. the vast majority have called it vaporware and never going to release...NEVER. or its a big hoax.
sorry but ya dont get to have your credibility back by saying it must be in bad shape. you ignored all the clear signs and piggybacked on wild theories because it was popular and sounded cool to call it vaporware.
And it doesnt have to release in a glorious wave of mmo goodness...it just has to have a solid release (stability wise) that is typical of the genre and have most of the features that was stated it would have. If they say before we put any money into it...hey ships are still in, but cannons need some tweaking and didnt make it, then that hardly makes it a failure because it left out some features.
I challenge you to find any post I made claiming DF was vaporware. You won't find one, because I never said it was. I in my opinion think the devs really wanted to make an excellent game. But for lack of many things (experience and money among others) they got in over their heads and here is where we are now.
So please don't categorize me. You just look like a fool.
Ebonhawk,
Re-read my post slowly. Edit your post. And no apology necessary
---sig---
Click this for lulz: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/173737/page/6
im sooo not letting some trolls off on this. you, i have no idea about, so of course ill just believe that you have always thought the game was real, just crappy.
but sorry trolls, you are not allowed to say what the above poster said. the vast vast minority of DF skeptics have stated the opinion you just made. the vast majority have called it vaporware and never going to release...NEVER. or its a big hoax.
sorry but ya dont get to have your credibility back by saying it must be in bad shape. you ignored all the clear signs and piggybacked on wild theories because it was popular and sounded cool to call it vaporware.
And it doesnt have to release in a glorious wave of mmo goodness...it just has to have a solid release (stability wise) that is typical of the genre and have most of the features that was stated it would have. If they say before we put any money into it...hey ships are still in, but cannons need some tweaking and didnt make it, then that hardly makes it a failure because it left out some features.
I challenge you to find any post I made claiming DF was vaporware. You won't find one, because I never said it was. I in my opinion think the devs really wanted to make an excellent game. But for lack of many things (experience and money among others) they got in over their heads and here is where we are now.
So please don't categorize me. You just look like a fool.
you have no base for that kind of theory so why dont you give it a rest?
So lets let me get this Straight. The haters are now claiming that it is not Vaporware but that the game will be shitty and it is being rushed out the door.
Hmmm I dont know what to say.... Its amazing that last week these same people were trolling about how long Darkfall is taking and because its been 7 years its vaporware... now after 7 years its beening rushed out the door. Priceless
Make up your mind haters... is it Vaporware because of the long development cycle or is being rushed out the door because of its long development cycle?
Logging into MMORPG.com - 0 dollars
Reading the Darkfall forum - 0 dollars
Debating with trolls - 0 dollars
Watching the trolls change their story to fit the latest news - priceless
Sooner or Later
The best attempt to shed light on the consequences of troll attitude ever. wow you just have spoken of the feelings of thousands in 7 sentences in the most effective way.
Long Story
This is so much on spot thats its amazing.
Good one mate.
You're not a very bright one, are you?
Lets talk about vaporware. Like DNF, the phantom console, etc. Here is the wiki definition of vaporware:
Vaporware is a somewhat derogatory term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar software/hardware product. The term implies unwarranted optimism, an as yet unannounced abandonment of a project, or sometimes even deception; that is, it may imply that the announcer knows that product development is in too early a stage to support responsible statements about its completion date, feature set, or even feasibility. However, most vaporware would not be considered a hoax since the makers have a genuine intention to create their product, even if it ultimately never materializes. Products with unspecified release dates or long development times that outwardly demonstrate regular, verifiable progress in production are not normally labelled vaporware.
So, if you had the slightest idea what you were blabbering about, you'd see several things:
1. DF obviously fits the definiton of vaporware. Hell, it should be listed as an example.
2. The title of "vaporware" has already been earned. DF could magically reach 100% completion tonight and come out tomorrow. It would still be vaporware.
3. Financial reality may be setting in...since it is fairly clear that DF is not a hoax, the game eventually has to be a) abandoned or b) released. B is more attractive as it means SOME money can be recouped.
4. Same thing happend w/ VG between Microsoft and SOE. We all know what VG was like at release, and it definitely had well-documented development and an extended closed / open beta.
5. Something usually does come out of vaporware...the phantom console / service became...the phantom lapboard.
So, short version: Yes, its vaporware. It either will be eventually abandoned, or will be released in a horrid state simply to get some of the money invested back. No, it doesn't matter which happens.
Now, kindly STFU and return to fantasy land.
I'm with you and im in that small minority, but the problem with niche is msall minority. How many niche games have lived on? The prolbem with these games is that the community is so small, there is no funding, and the game eventually goes the way of the doe doe.
But then again, i guess UO is still going. I can't believe people still play it
it will probly hjave a subscription base comparable to eves
If they have signed the entire rights away then this is ominous news for the game as nobody would do such a thing unless it sucked.
It's not very clear if thats what they have actually done, will have to wait for more details.
It does look very suspicious though. I am looking forward to this game and even I admit it.
I agree - the game is being rushed out. How can I say that, when the game has been in dev since 2000? Simple. They have given a release date before they have had a significant beta test. That, my friends, is bass-ackwards. It is called a test for a reason - you dont know the outcome.
On one hand, they say the game will release within 2008. On the other hand, they say the beta will run as long as needed. Doesnt anyone else see the problem with those statements? In a worst case scenerio, they cant both be true. Hell, it would not even take a worst case scenerio, as they only left themselves a few months. I would expect 6 months to be a VERY short beta for a game as complex as DF.
I would speculate that the powers that be (the money guys) have said enough is enough. I expect launch in 2008, ready or not. Most likely, not.
For you fans out there, dont get all cranky on me. Of course I might be wrong. The other scenerio is that the game is ready, public beta will run smoothly, and launch will be on time AND good. But occam's razor usually cuts true, so I will go with the scenerio that does not require perfection in every step along the way to release.
They haven't given us a release date, except for the 2008 estimate. It's the beta date indeed. Also, the beta will mostly be a PR trial of the game, not an actual test. The game has been in closed beta for a long time now, where most of the actual testing has been done.
I'm not sure, but I believe I read something about payed-beta testers. If this is true, I think it will honestly be for the best. I'm not sure though. I don't recall where I read it at. I'll have to find the link. I hope so. It'd be nice to see its on its way to completetion. I believe a few months ago they officially announced their stock. So, something has to be going on.
I'm amazed that men like you can be so shallow, thick and slow. There is not a man among you who will care whether I come or go....not one...not one of you
Yes, the closed beta has professional testers only. The "beta" for us, will be a promotional pilot test for most of the part.
Is this endless debate remarkable? Both sides putting up such a lengthy argument and yet after years, it is still the same old stalemate. Why?
Simple, because aventurine has NOT issued any materials worthy of substance. Long text of words, frequently through unidentifiable persons, fans friends, whoever he is we never know. Or claims from the developer, in broad brush text : AIs that help beta test. How does it work? How does it help, in which aspect?
So the rest of the people here can argue and talk and argue and talk. But no one can disprove anyone b/c no one can prove anything.
This leads to the final proposition here: aventurine is not stupid, the tasos or whoever he is is not stupid. He is very clever, he blow his horn and then bury himself deep in the ground, occasionally yelling and making some smoke or dust thru his hell hole. We can never prove he is right or wrong, we never know who where he is. We never know anything, and for 7 years we know nothing.
How long will this last? God knows, or maybe even god does not know. Keep the argument going. Its just like a soap opera, watch and forget.
They said the game will launch within 2008, with public beta proceeding it by a few weeks. If you want to get picky, the latest possible release date within 2008 would be Dec 31.
Yes, they have been in closed beta. A longer one than normal. That still will not be a substitute for large scale testing, IMO. They will be in for a rude awakening if they rely too heavily on tools and simulations.
And we can be fairly confident the "pro testers" largely consist of the local college interns they were recruiting.
All this makes it tough for me to have a warm fuzzy about the state of the game. YMMV.
LOL@OP
LOL
LOL
LOL
LOL
That's all I have to contribute.
Originally posted by TdogSkal
So lets let me get this Straight. The haters are now claiming that it is not Vaporware but that the game will be shitty and it is being rushed out the door.
Hmmm I dont know what to say.... Its amazing that last week these same people were trolling about how long Darkfall is taking and because its been 7 years its vaporware... now after 7 years its beening rushed out the door. Priceless
Make up your mind haters... is it Vaporware because of the long development cycle or is being rushed out the door because of its long development cycle?
Logging into MMORPG.com - 0 dollars
Reading the Darkfall forum - 0 dollars
Debating with trolls - 0 dollars
Watching the trolls change their story to fit the latest news - priceless
QFT.
A gem, good sir. A gem.
i think shadowbane isnt the best example.... think of irth online as a better one.
i would recommend to read the full story at ganked.com because i think it shows a few similarities to DF.
but as everyone here, i hope it will be sth. different, sth. new...
You're not a very bright one, are you?
Lets talk about vaporware. Like DNF, the phantom console, etc. Here is the wiki definition of vaporware:
Vaporware is a somewhat derogatory term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar software/hardware product. The term implies unwarranted optimism, an as yet unannounced abandonment of a project, or sometimes even deception; that is, it may imply that the announcer knows that product development is in too early a stage to support responsible statements about its completion date, feature set, or even feasibility. However, most vaporware would not be considered a hoax since the makers have a genuine intention to create their product, even if it ultimately never materializes. Products with unspecified release dates or long development times that outwardly demonstrate regular, verifiable progress in production are not normally labelled vaporware.
So, if you had the slightest idea what you were blabbering about, you'd see several things:
1. DF obviously fits the definiton of vaporware. Hell, it should be listed as an example.
2. The title of "vaporware" has already been earned. DF could magically reach 100% completion tonight and come out tomorrow. It would still be vaporware.
3. Financial reality may be setting in...since it is fairly clear that DF is not a hoax, the game eventually has to be a) abandoned or b) released. B is more attractive as it means SOME money can be recouped.
4. Same thing happend w/ VG between Microsoft and SOE. We all know what VG was like at release, and it definitely had well-documented development and an extended closed / open beta.
5. Something usually does come out of vaporware...the phantom console / service became...the phantom lapboard.
So, short version: Yes, its vaporware. It either will be eventually abandoned, or will be released in a horrid state simply to get some of the money invested back. No, it doesn't matter which happens.
Now, kindly STFU and return to fantasy land.
quoting and highlighting the 2 funniest parts of your post - the part that disproves your theory that you yourself quoted, and the part where you pwn yourself.
QFA
You're not a very bright one, are you?
Lets talk about vaporware. Like DNF, the phantom console, etc. Here is the wiki definition of vaporware:
Vaporware is a somewhat derogatory term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar software/hardware product. The term implies unwarranted optimism, an as yet unannounced abandonment of a project, or sometimes even deception; that is, it may imply that the announcer knows that product development is in too early a stage to support responsible statements about its completion date, feature set, or even feasibility. However, most vaporware would not be considered a hoax since the makers have a genuine intention to create their product, even if it ultimately never materializes. Products with unspecified release dates or long development times that outwardly demonstrate regular, verifiable progress in production are not normally labelled vaporware.
So, if you had the slightest idea what you were blabbering about, you'd see several things:
1. DF obviously fits the definiton of vaporware. Hell, it should be listed as an example.
2. The title of "vaporware" has already been earned. DF could magically reach 100% completion tonight and come out tomorrow. It would still be vaporware.
3. Financial reality may be setting in...since it is fairly clear that DF is not a hoax, the game eventually has to be a) abandoned or b) released. B is more attractive as it means SOME money can be recouped.
4. Same thing happend w/ VG between Microsoft and SOE. We all know what VG was like at release, and it definitely had well-documented development and an extended closed / open beta.
5. Something usually does come out of vaporware...the phantom console / service became...the phantom lapboard.
So, short version: Yes, its vaporware. It either will be eventually abandoned, or will be released in a horrid state simply to get some of the money invested back. No, it doesn't matter which happens.
Now, kindly STFU and return to fantasy land.
quoting and highlighting the 2 funniest parts of your post - the part that disproves your theory that you yourself quoted, and the part where you pwn yourself.
Javac, please read what is in the blue...Then show me how the eight years of development on Darkfall have been verified...Really...Show me an ounce of evidence other than quoted statements of Tasos (who isn't the most trustworthy of men) that backs your claim.
I apologize Javac, but Darkfall is vaporware, and will continue to be so until it is released. Even THEN it can still be considered vaporware if the game is far from the standards set by Adventurine.
But really, what does a label mean? Fucking nothing, idiot. The fact is we've another promise to wait for, and we still don't have that video we were waiting on... Fucking shit...
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It's honestly like everyone logs onto WoW, and games like WoW, just to masturbate. Everyone plays by themselves, and when they don't, they get what they want and get off.
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Originally posted by atziluth...
Ah yes when the unreasonable are faced with reason they must resort to personal attacks...When you are ready to move up from the kids table you can talk with the grown ups.
That definition of vaporware was written for Darkfall! I always thought vaporware meant hoax, but apparently not. There have been no demonstrations of verifiable progress, just a bit of carrot-dangling. It's not the same at all. They use verifiable for a reason. Tasos has given as little as he can while keeping the gullible happy.
lol these guys make my heart smile
---sig---
Click this for lulz: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/173737/page/6