Lets talk about vaporware. Like DNF, the phantom console, etc. Here is the wiki definition of vaporware:
Vaporware is a somewhat derogatory term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar software/hardware product. The term implies unwarranted optimism, an as yet unannounced abandonment of a project, or sometimes even deception; that is, it may imply that the announcer knows that product development is in too early a stage to support responsible statements about its completion date, feature set, or even feasibility. However, most vaporware would not be considered a hoax since the makers have a genuine intention to create their product, even if it ultimately never materializes. Products with unspecified release dates or long development times that outwardly demonstrate regular, verifiable progress in production are not normally labelled vaporware.
So, if you had the slightest idea what you were blabbering about, you'd see several things:
1. DF obviously fits the definiton of vaporware. Hell, it should be listed as an example.
2. The title of "vaporware" has already been earned. DF could magically reach 100% completion tonight and come out tomorrow. It would still be vaporware.
3. Financial reality may be setting in...since it is fairly clear that DF is not a hoax, the game eventually has to be a) abandoned or b) released. B is more attractive as it means SOME money can be recouped.
4. Same thing happend w/ VG between Microsoft and SOE. We all know what VG was like at release, and it definitely had well-documented development and an extended closed / open beta.
5. Something usually does come out of vaporware...the phantom console / service became...the phantom lapboard.
So, short version: Yes, its vaporware. It either will be eventually abandoned, or will be released in a horrid state simply to get some of the money invested back. No, it doesn't matter which happens.
Now, kindly STFU and return to fantasy land.
quoting and highlighting the 2 funniest parts of your post - the part that disproves your theory that you yourself quoted, and the part where you pwn yourself.
Javac, please read what is in the blue...Then show me how the eight years of development on Darkfall have been verified...Really...Show me an ounce of evidence other than quoted statements of Tasos (who isn't the most trustworthy of men) that backs your claim.
I apologize Javac, but Darkfall is vaporware, and will continue to be so until it is released. Even THEN it can still be considered vaporware if the game is far from the standards set by Adventurine.
But really, what does a label mean? Fucking nothing, idiot. The fact is we've another promise to wait for, and we still don't have that video we were waiting on... Fucking shit...
I read what's in blue and....
"Products with unspecified release dates or long development times that outwardly demonstrate regular, verifiable progress in production are not normally labelled vaporware."
Your "definition" do not classify DF as VW. Why ? Because a releasedate has never been published.
--- And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there. John Smedley, SOE
yea definitely a niche game, and the fans of DF wouldnt have it any other way. What makes these games great is the community and the fact that game is designed to appease a specific audience, so that audience is obviously going to love it. WoW is a great game. It is. Sorry but it is. Is it my kind of game? I played it because it was fun and my guild needed a new game. Is it my kind of game? Nope. WoW is a game with a very low barrier of entry which business wise is insanely smart and they obviously know what they are doing. And some people want nothing more out of a MMO, and thats great for them. But DF's feature list is just drooltastic for some of us. I personally love the sandboxy structure of EVE and played it for awhile, but im definitely more into the fantasy setting or at least being able to see my character and interact on a world rather than the sci-fi aspect. Minus SWG pre-nge...we played the hell out of that game and i miss it.
How funny is this? Why did you say anything else, this is the important part you said. If cookie cutter/ low barrier of entry is insanely smart and obvious they know what they are doing then from that we can safely say Darkfall's production is insanely stupid and obviously they have no idea what they are doing, since its more of less the opposite of WoW.
wow...its like he didnt even bother to read my post, and just scanned for a part where he could troll. I like this, means they are getting even more nervous.
yea definitely a niche game, and the fans of DF wouldnt have it any other way. What makes these games great is the community and the fact that game is designed to appease a specific audience, so that audience is obviously going to love it. WoW is a great game. It is. Sorry but it is. Is it my kind of game? I played it because it was fun and my guild needed a new game. Is it my kind of game? Nope. WoW is a game with a very low barrier of entry which business wise is insanely smart and they obviously know what they are doing. And some people want nothing more out of a MMO, and thats great for them. But DF's feature list is just drooltastic for some of us. I personally love the sandboxy structure of EVE and played it for awhile, but im definitely more into the fantasy setting or at least being able to see my character and interact on a world rather than the sci-fi aspect. Minus SWG pre-nge...we played the hell out of that game and i miss it.
How funny is this? Why did you say anything else, this is the important part you said. If cookie cutter/ low barrier of entry is insanely smart and obvious they know what they are doing then from that we can safely say Darkfall's production is insanely stupid and obviously they have no idea what they are doing, since its more of less the opposite of WoW.
wow...its like he didnt even bother to read my post, and just scanned for a part where he could troll. I like this, means they are getting even more nervous.
Are you retarded?
/sarcasm Yes, you are right. I only read the middle sentence of your post and then posted. /endsarcasm
Does that make any sense to read a random sentence in the middle and post? I read everything everyone has said, the sad thing is you don't read your OWN post. You clearly say its smart to make a game appeal to lots of people yet you think an oldschool hardcore niche is going to work.
What am I nervous about? If this game doesn't come out, I am not affected. If it comes out and its the best game ever, I am not affected. You just rant troll and nervous words and don't know what you are talking.about.
About DARDKFAIL, it's not going to happen. And if it does, it will be so bad it will make lolcats cry. And this is very bad.
So your saying that Darkfall only has 2 possiable outcomes? Not releasing or sucking on release?
How did you come up with that... what about 2 more opinions... It is great on release or it is playable on release?
You trolls are amazing.... Last week It was "it will never come out, its vaporware"... this week its "It will suck on release or not come out at all." Way to cover your asses.
Please do us all a favor and dont play Darkfall on release, the last thing we need is a bunch of cry babies on the forums because they died and lost all there stuff.
what i think is amazing are the fanboys...they belive every lie darckfail says
What Lie? can you prove they lied? No you can't. Tasos has said many things that never happened but every game goes though that during Developement.
lol yoa just shot yourself in the foot.
no one has faild to meet so many prmises as that guy
They were never promises. They were projections. Projections change. I never saw Tasos promise anything.
yea definitely a niche game, and the fans of DF wouldnt have it any other way. What makes these games great is the community and the fact that game is designed to appease a specific audience, so that audience is obviously going to love it. WoW is a great game. It is. Sorry but it is. Is it my kind of game? I played it because it was fun and my guild needed a new game. Is it my kind of game? Nope. WoW is a game with a very low barrier of entry which business wise is insanely smart and they obviously know what they are doing. And some people want nothing more out of a MMO, and thats great for them. But DF's feature list is just drooltastic for some of us. I personally love the sandboxy structure of EVE and played it for awhile, but im definitely more into the fantasy setting or at least being able to see my character and interact on a world rather than the sci-fi aspect. Minus SWG pre-nge...we played the hell out of that game and i miss it.
How funny is this? Why did you say anything else, this is the important part you said. If cookie cutter/ low barrier of entry is insanely smart and obvious they know what they are doing then from that we can safely say Darkfall's production is insanely stupid and obviously they have no idea what they are doing, since its more of less the opposite of WoW.
wow...its like he didnt even bother to read my post, and just scanned for a part where he could troll. I like this, means they are getting even more nervous.
Are you retarded?
/sarcasm Yes, you are right. I only read the middle sentence of your post and then posted. /endsarcasm
Does that make any sense to read a random sentence in the middle and post? I read everything everyone has said, the sad thing is you don't read your OWN post. You clearly say its smart to make a game appeal to lots of people yet you think an oldschool hardcore niche is going to work.
What am I nervous about? If this game doesn't come out, I am not affected. If it comes out and its the best game ever, I am not affected. You just rant troll and nervous words and don't know what you are talking.about.
Was the retarded part really neccesary ? Also I'm interested to know how you came to the conclusion that "Darkfall's production is insanely stupid and obviously they have no idea what they are doing, since its more of less the opposite of WoW. ".
DF (probably) less development costs than WoW and need less subs to be successful. There is also something to be said about loyalty. A smaller group of fans are easier to please than a greater group. Your statement is in my eyes flawed.
WoW may be a quality product but it is also boring. Their customer service is "unpersonal" at best. I like a game where I can "hang" with the devs. WoW has grown to big for that.
You may not be affected but you are wasting your time with a game you will not play.
--- And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there. John Smedley, SOE
Hi Tdog, guilds coming along nicely. It's a little early, but ya need to be patient with this kind of stuff, eh? Oh right, the post. On with the discussion!
So your saying that Darkfall only has 2 possiable outcomes? Not releasing or sucking on release? The chances of DF having a decent release are very slim. Beta for a month, then release? One month, especially with all of these "features" that DF has.. I'm very doubtful. Professional testers are nice, but you need more than 10-200 people to test a game; especially with all of Darkfall's "features" How did you come up with that... what about 2 more opinions... It is great on release or it is playable on release? As I said above, that seems like a slim chance. Beta is important..isn't that what you do an an intern? You trolls are amazing.... Last week It was "it will never come out, its vaporware"... this week its "It will suck on release or not come out at all." Way to cover your asses. There's a possibility of vaporware; although it is a less of a chance than before. There is nothing wrong with changing the arguement, especially when things happen this suddenly. Honestly, if DF releases, I don't see a good release. But, I guess that makes me a troll thinking differently. Please do us all a favor and dont play Darkfall on release, the last thing we need is a bunch of cry babies on the forums because they died and lost all there stuff. hehe. I played a full loot game for six years, and I'm going to begin playing another one if I like the free version and can join a decent village. I've died and lost so many valuable things, but I stick around. Aren't you the one who says not to generalize?
The point is you haters are just changing your story to fit the latest news. Its is not vaporware now that we have a date for beta, so now it will have a bad release. It would be one thing if you haters said that Darkfall is going to be a crap game on release, then you would be fine... But when you say over and over that Darkfall is a hoax, its vaporware, it will never release, then we find out this information and all of you change your arguement to fit it.
Its like saying Well the Detroit Red Wings suck and will never win a playoff game, then after they win there first playoff game, coming back and saying well they will never win a championship. Its pretty much makes your arguement worthless because you cant stick to your guns.
Us so called fanbois have never changed our arguement that Darkfall is real and it will release why should you hates be able to adapt your arguement to fit the current news everytime some news comes along?
Glad the guilds going well... CoS is going well. Mike, your not a troll because you have a different opinion, your a troll because all you are doing is creating a useless arguement based on the information at hand, as that information changes, so does your arguement. That is trolling.
I've never said Darkfall is a hoax, might have said so a long time ago, but my opinion is and has been for a long time, that the game will not launch with all features included and/or working. *shrugs*
And I'm still not sure if the free playtesting will actually come to pass, but I'm willing to give that the benefit of doubt for now. Anyway, that's that. No, DF is not a hoax. It will eventually release (when is still up in the air), but it won#t be the game they promised.
I've never said Darkfall is a hoax, might have said so a long time ago, but my opinion is and has been for a long time, that the game will not launch with all features included and/or working. *shrugs*
And I'm still not sure if the free playtesting will actually come to pass, but I'm willing to give that the benefit of doubt for now. Anyway, that's that. No, DF is not a hoax. It will eventually release (when is still up in the air), but it won#t be the game they promised.
What hell is with this promised bullshit? The Developers never promied anything. NOTHING WAS OR IS PROMISED.
Its like saying Mythic lied to everyone because they are not going to release the game with all cities and classes they "promised".
Common sense is a great tool, too bad you have none.
I've never said Darkfall is a hoax, might have said so a long time ago, but my opinion is and has been for a long time, that the game will not launch with all features included and/or working. *shrugs*
And I'm still not sure if the free playtesting will actually come to pass, but I'm willing to give that the benefit of doubt for now. Anyway, that's that. No, DF is not a hoax. It will eventually release (when is still up in the air), but it won#t be the game they promised.
What hell is with this promised bullshit? The Developers never promied anything. NOTHING WAS OR IS PROMISED.
Its like saying Mythic lied to everyone because they are not going to release the game with all cities and classes they "promised".
Common sense is a great tool, too bad you have none.
First. Calm down. I did not insult anyone here, so there's no reason for you to start insulting me.
Second, they have a feature set they promised. And yes, I was not particularly thrilled when WAR cut 4 cities and classes either. I was not thrilled when AoC launched without promised DX10. People like you and Aragon cried the loudest and pointed fingers yelling about broken promises when that happened.
But with DF it's OK? Tasos can say what he wants and as long as any kind of product is released that's all right? *smirk* Way to go.
Anyway, I see a feature list on their site and features Tasos "mentioned" in his updates. Those are the things I am talking about. And I am certain that not all of those will be in the game or they will be broken/unfinished.
Go on and insult me for that. Rather curious if you ask me.
yea definitely a niche game, and the fans of DF wouldnt have it any other way. What makes these games great is the community and the fact that game is designed to appease a specific audience, so that audience is obviously going to love it. WoW is a great game. It is. Sorry but it is. Is it my kind of game? I played it because it was fun and my guild needed a new game. Is it my kind of game? Nope. WoW is a game with a very low barrier of entry which business wise is insanely smart and they obviously know what they are doing. And some people want nothing more out of a MMO, and thats great for them. But DF's feature list is just drooltastic for some of us. I personally love the sandboxy structure of EVE and played it for awhile, but im definitely more into the fantasy setting or at least being able to see my character and interact on a world rather than the sci-fi aspect. Minus SWG pre-nge...we played the hell out of that game and i miss it.
How funny is this? Why did you say anything else, this is the important part you said. If cookie cutter/ low barrier of entry is insanely smart and obvious they know what they are doing then from that we can safely say Darkfall's production is insanely stupid and obviously they have no idea what they are doing, since its more of less the opposite of WoW.
wow...its like he didnt even bother to read my post, and just scanned for a part where he could troll. I like this, means they are getting even more nervous.
Are you retarded?
/sarcasm Yes, you are right. I only read the middle sentence of your post and then posted. /endsarcasm
Does that make any sense to read a random sentence in the middle and post? I read everything everyone has said, the sad thing is you don't read your OWN post. You clearly say its smart to make a game appeal to lots of people yet you think an oldschool hardcore niche is going to work.
What am I nervous about? If this game doesn't come out, I am not affected. If it comes out and its the best game ever, I am not affected. You just rant troll and nervous words and don't know what you are talking.about.
Was the retarded part really neccesary ? Also I'm interested to know how you came to the conclusion that "Darkfall's production is insanely stupid and obviously they have no idea what they are doing, since its more of less the opposite of WoW. ".
DF (probably) less development costs than WoW and need less subs to be successful. There is also something to be said about loyalty. A smaller group of fans are easier to please than a greater group. Your statement is in my eyes flawed.
WoW may be a quality product but it is also boring. Their customer service is "unpersonal" at best. I like a game where I can "hang" with the devs. WoW has grown to big for that.
You may not be affected but you are wasting your time with a game you will not play.
I don't know, was it necessary? I apparently felt it was.
A smaller group of fans doesn't mean they are easier to please, that opinion holds no facts. it depends on the group of people.
You like a game where you can "hang" with the devs? Then you are barking up the wrong tree. Darkfall devs rarely let you know what's going on and if they ever do say something, its normally a lie.
And I won't bring back the retarded statement but OF COURSE my statement was flawed. I was showing comical humor, which leads me to your last comment... I follow darkfall to watch and comment on the fans that blindly follow this game. So no, I am not wasting my time, I am being entertained.
I've never said Darkfall is a hoax, might have said so a long time ago, but my opinion is and has been for a long time, that the game will not launch with all features included and/or working. *shrugs*
And I'm still not sure if the free playtesting will actually come to pass, but I'm willing to give that the benefit of doubt for now. Anyway, that's that. No, DF is not a hoax. It will eventually release (when is still up in the air), but it won#t be the game they promised.
What hell is with this promised bullshit? The Developers never promied anything. NOTHING WAS OR IS PROMISED.
Its like saying Mythic lied to everyone because they are not going to release the game with all cities and classes they "promised".
Common sense is a great tool, too bad you have none.
First. Calm down. I did not insult anyone here, so there's no reason for you to start insulting me.
Second, they have a feature set they promised. And yes, I was not particularly thrilled when WAR cut 4 cities and classes either. I was not thrilled when AoC launched without promised DX10. People like you and Aragon cried the loudest and pointed fingers yelling about broken promises when that happened.
But with DF it's OK? Tasos can say what he wants and as long as any kind of product is released that's all right? *smirk* Way to go.
Anyway, I see a feature list on their site and features Tasos "mentioned" in his updates. Those are the things I am talking about. And I am certain that not all of those will be in the game or they will be broken/unfinished.
Go on and insult me for that. Rather curious if you ask me.
I was not the loudest when they said that by any means. I understand what your saying but you and others keep saying Tasos lied. That is simply not true.
The whole point is that right now all the vaporware naysayers were proven wrong, its that simple.
Now You can go though all my post if you wish but I never said Darkfall would be perfect at launch, that is just not how MMORPGs work. Now personally I think they will have everything on their feature list ready at launch because it would be suicide if they did not. I think they are smart enough to realize anything less then a full feature list would doom their game from the start.
Whether Darkfall releases in good shape or not is not the issue here. The issue here is that the Vaporware trolls are wrong and are now change there story. That is the point I am making.
Sorry for insult you but I am sick of trolls and naysayers posting "Facts" from their opinions, it gets old quickly.
I've never said Darkfall is a hoax, might have said so a long time ago, but my opinion is and has been for a long time, that the game will not launch with all features included and/or working. *shrugs*
And I'm still not sure if the free playtesting will actually come to pass, but I'm willing to give that the benefit of doubt for now. Anyway, that's that. No, DF is not a hoax. It will eventually release (when is still up in the air), but it won#t be the game they promised.
What hell is with this promised bullshit? The Developers never promied anything. NOTHING WAS OR IS PROMISED.
Its like saying Mythic lied to everyone because they are not going to release the game with all cities and classes they "promised".
Common sense is a great tool, too bad you have none.
First. Calm down. I did not insult anyone here, so there's no reason for you to start insulting me.
Second, they have a feature set they promised. And yes, I was not particularly thrilled when WAR cut 4 cities and classes either. I was not thrilled when AoC launched without promised DX10. People like you and Aragon cried the loudest and pointed fingers yelling about broken promises when that happened.
But with DF it's OK? Tasos can say what he wants and as long as any kind of product is released that's all right? *smirk* Way to go.
Anyway, I see a feature list on their site and features Tasos "mentioned" in his updates. Those are the things I am talking about. And I am certain that not all of those will be in the game or they will be broken/unfinished.
Go on and insult me for that. Rather curious if you ask me.
I was not the loudest when they said that by any means. I understand what your saying but you and others keep saying Tasos lied. That is simply not true.
The whole point is that right now all the vaporware naysayers were proven wrong, its that simple.
Now You can go though all my post if you wish but I never said Darkfall would be perfect at launch, that is just not how MMORPGs work. Now personally I think they will have everything on their feature list ready at launch because it would be suicide if they did not. I think they are smart enough to realize anything less then a full feature list would doom their game from the start.
Whether Darkfall releases in good shape or not is not the issue here. The issue here is that the Vaporware trolls are wrong and are now change there story. That is the point I am making.
Sorry for insult you but I am sick of trolls and naysayers posting "Facts" from their opinions, it gets old quickly.
I'm not posting facts. It is clearly an opinion. And I am sorry for implying you when I spoke of those people jeering and cheering and pointing fingers when features were cut from other games.
Anyway, I am not saying anything else but that I believe that DF will not launch as it is currently described on the website or in the developer journals. Full Stop. Nothing more, nothing less.
As for the naysayers and trolls...well, yeah. They get ridiculous...just like the other side of the medal does too at times. No sense in being angry about that though. Sit back, relax and see what will be m8! Cheers!
Hi Tdog, guilds coming along nicely. It's a little early, but ya need to be patient with this kind of stuff, eh? Oh right, the post. On with the discussion!
So your saying that Darkfall only has 2 possiable outcomes? Not releasing or sucking on release? The chances of DF having a decent release are very slim. Beta for a month, then release? One month, especially with all of these "features" that DF has.. I'm very doubtful. Professional testers are nice, but you need more than 10-200 people to test a game; especially with all of Darkfall's "features" How did you come up with that... what about 2 more opinions... It is great on release or it is playable on release? As I said above, that seems like a slim chance. Beta is important..isn't that what you do an an intern? You trolls are amazing.... Last week It was "it will never come out, its vaporware"... this week its "It will suck on release or not come out at all." Way to cover your asses. There's a possibility of vaporware; although it is a less of a chance than before. There is nothing wrong with changing the arguement, especially when things happen this suddenly. Honestly, if DF releases, I don't see a good release. But, I guess that makes me a troll thinking differently. Please do us all a favor and dont play Darkfall on release, the last thing we need is a bunch of cry babies on the forums because they died and lost all there stuff. hehe. I played a full loot game for six years, and I'm going to begin playing another one if I like the free version and can join a decent village. I've died and lost so many valuable things, but I stick around. Aren't you the one who says not to generalize?
The point is you haters are just changing your story to fit the latest news. Its is not vaporware now that we have a date for beta, so now it will have a bad release. It would be one thing if you haters said that Darkfall is going to be a crap game on release, then you would be fine... But when you say over and over that Darkfall is a hoax, its vaporware, it will never release, then we find out this information and all of you change your arguement to fit it.
Its like saying Well the Detroit Red Wings suck and will never win a playoff game, then after they win there first playoff game, coming back and saying well they will never win a championship. Its pretty much makes your arguement worthless because you cant stick to your guns.
Us so called fanbois have never changed our arguement that Darkfall is real and it will release why should you hates be able to adapt your arguement to fit the current news everytime some news comes along?
Glad the guilds going well... CoS is going well. Mike, your not a troll because you have a different opinion, your a troll because all you are doing is creating a useless arguement based on the information at hand, as that information changes, so does your arguement. That is trolling.
Changing your argument to take into account newfound information is not trolling, it's the smart thing to do in all areas. Or are you suggesting that one should not change one's argument in lieu of new information in order to keep it valid? Debating does not have memory. It doesn't matter if someone was wrong the last 99 times, you can't logically justify simply dismissing their 100th argument based on that history. It's possible they were wrong on the hoax argument (just possible because even though announcements have been made, there's still no beta or game yet) it doesn't make a different argument from them invalid.
Even if you don't agree with their new position, you're not arguing against it, you're arguing against the holders of the position because of their old argument. Argue why the game will be released with all its promised/stated/listed/mentioned/once talked about features.
I don't know, was it necessary? I apparently felt it was.
You apparantly have no clue how to debate then. And the fasttrack to my ignorelist and possible ban. yeah re-po-rt-ed
A smaller group of fans doesn't mean they are easier to please, that opinion holds no facts. it depends on the group of people.
It's not an opinion is a counterargument. Big isn't neccessary better.
You like a game where you can "hang" with the devs? Then you are barking up the wrong tree. Darkfall devs rarely let you know what's going on and if they ever do say something, its normally a lie.
I don't think so. Just look at who they prefer to show the game to. It's gamers, not press. As for the lying part, what lies are you talking about ? Are you still sore about those missed beta dates ? Really ?
And I won't bring back the retarded statement but OF COURSE my statement was flawed. I was showing comical humor, which leads me to your last comment...
What kind of humor exactly would that be? Irony, satire ?
I follow darkfall to watch and comment on the fans that blindly follow this game. So no, I am not wasting my time, I am being entertained.
Me too, trollslaying keeps me young and healthy.
--- And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there. John Smedley, SOE
The whole point is that right now all the vaporware naysayers were proven wrong, its that simple.
------------------
They have? In what way? How?
Darkfall launched already? no it didn't.
For all you know this AudioVisual company could have a fat ass clause in this agreement with Aventurine that states they are able to pull out at anytime they feel like it for whatever reason which I am pretty sure they do....
Or it could very well say that if this "pilot test" does not go as planned they could pull out..
NOTHING is guranteed until the money is in the bank. Darkfalls success at this point is FAR from being guranteed.
All you do is take shit at face value with this thing which is what most fanboys constantly do because that's how THEY WANT it to be.
Shall I list for you all the names of games that were cancelled in Beta?
Darkfall is no where even remotely near launching. That you can be guranteed of. And if it does launch this year it will be a train wreck.
Do you even begin to understand what kind of MADNESS will begin once they actually allow thousands of people to break their 100% unproven code???
Or do you REALLY think that Darkfall with it's completely unproven engine , completely unproven Net code is going to be the first game in history to have a Beta with absolutely no problems what so ever?
You people live in a fucken fairy world that Tasos built for you...... well at least not yet..
Xris, are you still angry about AoC? What is with your "Failcom" graphic? For a troll slayer, such as you claim to be, it seems rather hypocritical to be trolling Funcom fans.
Xris, are you still angry about AoC? What is with your "Failcom" graphic? For a troll slayer, such as you claim to be, it seems rather hypocritical to be trolling Funcom fans.
Theo, you should know by now that a fanboi is a subgroup of trolls. As they say one game's fanboi, is another game's troll.
--- And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there. John Smedley, SOE
Hi Tdog, guilds coming along nicely. It's a little early, but ya need to be patient with this kind of stuff, eh? Oh right, the post. On with the discussion!
So your saying that Darkfall only has 2 possiable outcomes? Not releasing or sucking on release? The chances of DF having a decent release are very slim. Beta for a month, then release? One month, especially with all of these "features" that DF has.. I'm very doubtful. Professional testers are nice, but you need more than 10-200 people to test a game; especially with all of Darkfall's "features" How did you come up with that... what about 2 more opinions... It is great on release or it is playable on release? As I said above, that seems like a slim chance. Beta is important..isn't that what you do an an intern? You trolls are amazing.... Last week It was "it will never come out, its vaporware"... this week its "It will suck on release or not come out at all." Way to cover your asses. There's a possibility of vaporware; although it is a less of a chance than before. There is nothing wrong with changing the arguement, especially when things happen this suddenly. Honestly, if DF releases, I don't see a good release. But, I guess that makes me a troll thinking differently. Please do us all a favor and dont play Darkfall on release, the last thing we need is a bunch of cry babies on the forums because they died and lost all there stuff. hehe. I played a full loot game for six years, and I'm going to begin playing another one if I like the free version and can join a decent village. I've died and lost so many valuable things, but I stick around. Aren't you the one who says not to generalize?
The point is you haters are just changing your story to fit the latest news. Its is not vaporware now that we have a date for beta, so now it will have a bad release. It would be one thing if you haters said that Darkfall is going to be a crap game on release, then you would be fine... But when you say over and over that Darkfall is a hoax, its vaporware, it will never release, then we find out this information and all of you change your arguement to fit it.
Its like saying Well the Detroit Red Wings suck and will never win a playoff game, then after they win there first playoff game, coming back and saying well they will never win a championship. Its pretty much makes your arguement worthless because you cant stick to your guns.
Us so called fanbois have never changed our arguement that Darkfall is real and it will release why should you hates be able to adapt your arguement to fit the current news everytime some news comes along?
Glad the guilds going well... CoS is going well. Mike, your not a troll because you have a different opinion, your a troll because all you are doing is creating a useless arguement based on the information at hand, as that information changes, so does your arguement. That is trolling.
Changing your argument to take into account newfound information is not trolling, it's the smart thing to do in all areas. Or are you suggesting that one should not change one's argument in lieu of new information in order to keep it valid? Debating does not have memory. It doesn't matter if someone was wrong the last 99 times, you can't logically justify simply dismissing their 100th argument based on that history. It's possible they were wrong on the hoax argument (just possible because even though announcements have been made, there's still no beta or game yet) it doesn't make a different argument from them invalid.
Even if you don't agree with their new position, you're not arguing against it, you're arguing against the holders of the position because of their old argument. Argue why the game will be released with all its promised/stated/listed/mentioned/once talked about features.
See that is bullshit, if you can change your arguement everytime new information is released then you can never be wrong..
The naysayers were wrong, the beta will be released in Oct 2008. That made their vaporware/hoax arguement wrong... I have not seen one hater/troll state that fact, now they just changed their story to the game will suck on release.
So what your saying is that as long as they change their arguement to fit the latest news then they were never wrong in the first place? If someone was wrong on their arguement 99 times then got 1 right, guess what they are still wrong most of the time. Logic is simple my friend. Logically they were wrong about the vaporware/hoax arguement, now if they admit they were wrong and then state their new position, I would be fine with that but that is not the case here.
If you can't understand what is wrong with that then their is no reason to keep talking to you.
Originally posted by TdogSkal The whole point is that right now all the vaporware naysayers were proven wrong, its that simple. ------------------
They have? In what way? How? Darkfall launched already? no it didn't. For all you know this AudioVisual company could have a fat ass clause in this agreement with Aventurine that states they are able to pull out at anytime they feel like it for whatever reason which I am pretty sure they do.... Or it could very well say that if this "pilot test" does not go as planned they could pull out.. NOTHING is guranteed until the money is in the bank. Darkfalls success at this point is FAR from being guranteed. All you do is take shit at face value with this thing which is what most fanboys constantly do because that's how THEY WANT it to be. Shall I list for you all the names of games that were cancelled in Beta? Darkfall is no where even remotely near launching. That you can be guranteed of. And if it does launch this year it will be a train wreck. Do you even begin to understand what kind of MADNESS will begin once they actually allow thousands of people to break their 100% unproven code??? Or do you REALLY think that Darkfall with it's completely unproven engine , completely unproven Net code is going to be the first game in history to have a Beta with absolutely no problems what so ever? You people live in a fucken fairy world that Tasos built for you...... well at least not yet..
"Or it could very well say that if this "pilot test" does not go as planned they could pull out" and that is fine but with that pilot test it proves its not vaporware... all I am saying
I never said Darkfall is going to be successful or be perfect on release, I simply said Darkfall is not a hoax or vaporware.
What cannot you not understand... you are talking about two different things... a game releasing and not being complete shit and a game that is not real.
The game is real, we know that. We know they are planning to release a Beta in Oct 2008. Darkfall is not vaporware, end of arguement. Vaporware trolls are wrong...
Now whether Darkfall is successful or feature complete or what state its in on release is a whole another topic which is not the point. The point being its not Vaporware.
See that is bullshit, if you can change your arguement everytime new information is released then you can never be wrong.. The naysayers were wrong, the beta will be released in Oct 2008. That made their vaporware/hoax arguement wrong... I have not seen one hater/troll state that fact, now they just changed their story to the game will suck on release. So what your saying is that as long as they change their arguement to fit the latest news then they were never wrong in the first place? If someone was wrong on their arguement 99 times then got 1 right, guess what they are still wrong most of the time. Logic is simple my friend. Logically they were wrong about the vaporware/hoax arguement, now if they admit they were wrong and then state their new position, I would be fine with that but that is not the case here. If you can't understand what is wrong with that then their is no reason to keep talking to you.
QFT
This is how Fortune tellers work, it's how Dictators keep their populations believing what they want them to believe, it's how Sony remains one of the largest companies in the world, oh, wait, no they just lie, cheat and steal, but hey, they're as bad as the other two.
seriously let the game launch and let the chips fall where they may. if the game succeeds good, if it doesnt, doesnt change the fact that we can always go to a new MMO to troll, flame, or preach about . we all got options.
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
Hi Tdog, guilds coming along nicely. It's a little early, but ya need to be patient with this kind of stuff, eh? Oh right, the post. On with the discussion!
So your saying that Darkfall only has 2 possiable outcomes? Not releasing or sucking on release? The chances of DF having a decent release are very slim. Beta for a month, then release? One month, especially with all of these "features" that DF has.. I'm very doubtful. Professional testers are nice, but you need more than 10-200 people to test a game; especially with all of Darkfall's "features" How did you come up with that... what about 2 more opinions... It is great on release or it is playable on release? As I said above, that seems like a slim chance. Beta is important..isn't that what you do an an intern? You trolls are amazing.... Last week It was "it will never come out, its vaporware"... this week its "It will suck on release or not come out at all." Way to cover your asses. There's a possibility of vaporware; although it is a less of a chance than before. There is nothing wrong with changing the arguement, especially when things happen this suddenly. Honestly, if DF releases, I don't see a good release. But, I guess that makes me a troll thinking differently. Please do us all a favor and dont play Darkfall on release, the last thing we need is a bunch of cry babies on the forums because they died and lost all there stuff. hehe. I played a full loot game for six years, and I'm going to begin playing another one if I like the free version and can join a decent village. I've died and lost so many valuable things, but I stick around. Aren't you the one who says not to generalize?
The point is you haters are just changing your story to fit the latest news. Its is not vaporware now that we have a date for beta, so now it will have a bad release. It would be one thing if you haters said that Darkfall is going to be a crap game on release, then you would be fine... But when you say over and over that Darkfall is a hoax, its vaporware, it will never release, then we find out this information and all of you change your arguement to fit it.
Its like saying Well the Detroit Red Wings suck and will never win a playoff game, then after they win there first playoff game, coming back and saying well they will never win a championship. Its pretty much makes your arguement worthless because you cant stick to your guns.
Us so called fanbois have never changed our arguement that Darkfall is real and it will release why should you hates be able to adapt your arguement to fit the current news everytime some news comes along?
Glad the guilds going well... CoS is going well. Mike, your not a troll because you have a different opinion, your a troll because all you are doing is creating a useless arguement based on the information at hand, as that information changes, so does your arguement. That is trolling.
Changing your argument to take into account newfound information is not trolling, it's the smart thing to do in all areas. Or are you suggesting that one should not change one's argument in lieu of new information in order to keep it valid? Debating does not have memory. It doesn't matter if someone was wrong the last 99 times, you can't logically justify simply dismissing their 100th argument based on that history. It's possible they were wrong on the hoax argument (just possible because even though announcements have been made, there's still no beta or game yet) it doesn't make a different argument from them invalid.
Even if you don't agree with their new position, you're not arguing against it, you're arguing against the holders of the position because of their old argument. Argue why the game will be released with all its promised/stated/listed/mentioned/once talked about features.
See that is bullshit, if you can change your arguement everytime new information is released then you can never be wrong..
The naysayers were wrong, the beta will be released in Oct 2008. That made their vaporware/hoax arguement wrong... I have not seen one hater/troll state that fact, now they just changed their story to the game will suck on release.
So what your saying is that as long as they change their arguement to fit the latest news then they were never wrong in the first place? If someone was wrong on their arguement 99 times then got 1 right, guess what they are still wrong most of the time. Logic is simple my friend. Logically they were wrong about the vaporware/hoax arguement, now if they admit they were wrong and then state their new position, I would be fine with that but that is not the case here.
If you can't understand what is wrong with that then their is no reason to keep talking to you.
Where did I say that changing your arguments meant you weren't wrong in the past? Are you reading my posts? If you're wrong, you're wrong, but that doesn't make your next argument wrong as well. I said it doesn't matter how wrong or how many times one person has been wrong in the past, it doesn't make their new arguments invalid. Logic is not statistics or viceversa.
And while probable, do not forget that they haven't yet been proven wrong yet. The only way that argument can be proven wrong is for DF to release commercially.
Instead of dismissing their arguments of the game being unsatisfactory on release by pointing out who they are and how you believe they were wrong on their last argument, argue against the game being unsatisfactory. If you feel you've won the hoax argument, there's no need to bring it up (unless you take pleasure from that, but that's not debating, that's just gloating a bit too soon), and you can't use that as a detractor for their current argument.
If you keep your feelings away from reading the post, you will notice that I am not arguing for either side here. I am just asking you to debate properly and logically.
Hi Tdog, guilds coming along nicely. It's a little early, but ya need to be patient with this kind of stuff, eh? Oh right, the post. On with the discussion!
So your saying that Darkfall only has 2 possiable outcomes? Not releasing or sucking on release? The chances of DF having a decent release are very slim. Beta for a month, then release? One month, especially with all of these "features" that DF has.. I'm very doubtful. Professional testers are nice, but you need more than 10-200 people to test a game; especially with all of Darkfall's "features" How did you come up with that... what about 2 more opinions... It is great on release or it is playable on release? As I said above, that seems like a slim chance. Beta is important..isn't that what you do an an intern? You trolls are amazing.... Last week It was "it will never come out, its vaporware"... this week its "It will suck on release or not come out at all." Way to cover your asses. There's a possibility of vaporware; although it is a less of a chance than before. There is nothing wrong with changing the arguement, especially when things happen this suddenly. Honestly, if DF releases, I don't see a good release. But, I guess that makes me a troll thinking differently. Please do us all a favor and dont play Darkfall on release, the last thing we need is a bunch of cry babies on the forums because they died and lost all there stuff. hehe. I played a full loot game for six years, and I'm going to begin playing another one if I like the free version and can join a decent village. I've died and lost so many valuable things, but I stick around. Aren't you the one who says not to generalize?
The point is you haters are just changing your story to fit the latest news. Its is not vaporware now that we have a date for beta, so now it will have a bad release. It would be one thing if you haters said that Darkfall is going to be a crap game on release, then you would be fine... But when you say over and over that Darkfall is a hoax, its vaporware, it will never release, then we find out this information and all of you change your arguement to fit it.
Its like saying Well the Detroit Red Wings suck and will never win a playoff game, then after they win there first playoff game, coming back and saying well they will never win a championship. Its pretty much makes your arguement worthless because you cant stick to your guns.
Us so called fanbois have never changed our arguement that Darkfall is real and it will release why should you hates be able to adapt your arguement to fit the current news everytime some news comes along?
Glad the guilds going well... CoS is going well. Mike, your not a troll because you have a different opinion, your a troll because all you are doing is creating a useless arguement based on the information at hand, as that information changes, so does your arguement. That is trolling.
Changing your argument to take into account newfound information is not trolling, it's the smart thing to do in all areas. Or are you suggesting that one should not change one's argument in lieu of new information in order to keep it valid? Debating does not have memory. It doesn't matter if someone was wrong the last 99 times, you can't logically justify simply dismissing their 100th argument based on that history. It's possible they were wrong on the hoax argument (just possible because even though announcements have been made, there's still no beta or game yet) it doesn't make a different argument from them invalid.
Even if you don't agree with their new position, you're not arguing against it, you're arguing against the holders of the position because of their old argument. Argue why the game will be released with all its promised/stated/listed/mentioned/once talked about features.
See that is bullshit, if you can change your arguement everytime new information is released then you can never be wrong..
The naysayers were wrong, the beta will be released in Oct 2008. That made their vaporware/hoax arguement wrong... I have not seen one hater/troll state that fact, now they just changed their story to the game will suck on release.
So what your saying is that as long as they change their arguement to fit the latest news then they were never wrong in the first place? If someone was wrong on their arguement 99 times then got 1 right, guess what they are still wrong most of the time. Logic is simple my friend. Logically they were wrong about the vaporware/hoax arguement, now if they admit they were wrong and then state their new position, I would be fine with that but that is not the case here.
If you can't understand what is wrong with that then their is no reason to keep talking to you.
Where did I say that changing your arguments meant you weren't wrong in the past? Are you reading my posts? If you're wrong, you're wrong, but that doesn't make your next argument wrong as well. I said it doesn't matter how wrong or how many times one person has been wrong in the past, it doesn't make their new arguments invalid. Logic is not statistics or viceversa.
And while probable, do not forget that they haven't yet been proven wrong yet. The only way that argument can be proven wrong is for DF to release commercially.
Instead of dismissing their arguments of the game being unsatisfactory on release by pointing out who they are and how you believe they were wrong on their last argument, argue against the game being unsatisfactory. If you feel you've won the hoax argument, there's no need to bring it up (unless you take pleasure from that, but that's not debating, that's just gloating a bit too soon), and you can't use that as a detractor for their current argument.
If you keep your feelings away from reading the post, you will notice that I am not arguing for either side here. I am just asking you to debate properly and logically.
No logical debate will deny statistics, so I hate to say it, but just because locic dictates that because someone's arguement was not right before can not by any means dismiss the that persons next arguement is illogical in it's ignorance of statistics.
Even logic has it's limits on the grounds of chaos theory vs. statistics.
Comments
You're not a very bright one, are you?
Lets talk about vaporware. Like DNF, the phantom console, etc. Here is the wiki definition of vaporware:
Vaporware is a somewhat derogatory term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar software/hardware product. The term implies unwarranted optimism, an as yet unannounced abandonment of a project, or sometimes even deception; that is, it may imply that the announcer knows that product development is in too early a stage to support responsible statements about its completion date, feature set, or even feasibility. However, most vaporware would not be considered a hoax since the makers have a genuine intention to create their product, even if it ultimately never materializes. Products with unspecified release dates or long development times that outwardly demonstrate regular, verifiable progress in production are not normally labelled vaporware.
So, if you had the slightest idea what you were blabbering about, you'd see several things:
1. DF obviously fits the definiton of vaporware. Hell, it should be listed as an example.
2. The title of "vaporware" has already been earned. DF could magically reach 100% completion tonight and come out tomorrow. It would still be vaporware.
3. Financial reality may be setting in...since it is fairly clear that DF is not a hoax, the game eventually has to be a) abandoned or b) released. B is more attractive as it means SOME money can be recouped.
4. Same thing happend w/ VG between Microsoft and SOE. We all know what VG was like at release, and it definitely had well-documented development and an extended closed / open beta.
5. Something usually does come out of vaporware...the phantom console / service became...the phantom lapboard.
So, short version: Yes, its vaporware. It either will be eventually abandoned, or will be released in a horrid state simply to get some of the money invested back. No, it doesn't matter which happens.
Now, kindly STFU and return to fantasy land.
quoting and highlighting the 2 funniest parts of your post - the part that disproves your theory that you yourself quoted, and the part where you pwn yourself.
Javac, please read what is in the blue...Then show me how the eight years of development on Darkfall have been verified...Really...Show me an ounce of evidence other than quoted statements of Tasos (who isn't the most trustworthy of men) that backs your claim.
I apologize Javac, but Darkfall is vaporware, and will continue to be so until it is released. Even THEN it can still be considered vaporware if the game is far from the standards set by Adventurine.
But really, what does a label mean? Fucking nothing, idiot. The fact is we've another promise to wait for, and we still don't have that video we were waiting on... Fucking shit...
I read what's in blue and....
"Products with unspecified release dates or long development times that outwardly demonstrate regular, verifiable progress in production are not normally labelled vaporware."
Your "definition" do not classify DF as VW. Why ? Because a releasedate has never been published.
---
And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.
John Smedley, SOE
How funny is this? Why did you say anything else, this is the important part you said. If cookie cutter/ low barrier of entry is insanely smart and obvious they know what they are doing then from that we can safely say Darkfall's production is insanely stupid and obviously they have no idea what they are doing, since its more of less the opposite of WoW.
wow...its like he didnt even bother to read my post, and just scanned for a part where he could troll. I like this, means they are getting even more nervous.
---sig---
Click this for lulz: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/173737/page/6
How funny is this? Why did you say anything else, this is the important part you said. If cookie cutter/ low barrier of entry is insanely smart and obvious they know what they are doing then from that we can safely say Darkfall's production is insanely stupid and obviously they have no idea what they are doing, since its more of less the opposite of WoW.
wow...its like he didnt even bother to read my post, and just scanned for a part where he could troll. I like this, means they are getting even more nervous.
Are you retarded?
/sarcasm Yes, you are right. I only read the middle sentence of your post and then posted. /endsarcasm
Does that make any sense to read a random sentence in the middle and post? I read everything everyone has said, the sad thing is you don't read your OWN post. You clearly say its smart to make a game appeal to lots of people yet you think an oldschool hardcore niche is going to work.
What am I nervous about? If this game doesn't come out, I am not affected. If it comes out and its the best game ever, I am not affected. You just rant troll and nervous words and don't know what you are talking.about.
So your saying that Darkfall only has 2 possiable outcomes? Not releasing or sucking on release?
How did you come up with that... what about 2 more opinions... It is great on release or it is playable on release?
You trolls are amazing.... Last week It was "it will never come out, its vaporware"... this week its "It will suck on release or not come out at all." Way to cover your asses.
Please do us all a favor and dont play Darkfall on release, the last thing we need is a bunch of cry babies on the forums because they died and lost all there stuff.
what i think is amazing are the fanboys...they belive every lie darckfail says
What Lie? can you prove they lied? No you can't. Tasos has said many things that never happened but every game goes though that during Developement.
lol yoa just shot yourself in the foot.
no one has faild to meet so many prmises as that guy
They were never promises. They were projections. Projections change. I never saw Tasos promise anything.
Sooner or Later
How funny is this? Why did you say anything else, this is the important part you said. If cookie cutter/ low barrier of entry is insanely smart and obvious they know what they are doing then from that we can safely say Darkfall's production is insanely stupid and obviously they have no idea what they are doing, since its more of less the opposite of WoW.
wow...its like he didnt even bother to read my post, and just scanned for a part where he could troll. I like this, means they are getting even more nervous.
Are you retarded?
/sarcasm Yes, you are right. I only read the middle sentence of your post and then posted. /endsarcasm
Does that make any sense to read a random sentence in the middle and post? I read everything everyone has said, the sad thing is you don't read your OWN post. You clearly say its smart to make a game appeal to lots of people yet you think an oldschool hardcore niche is going to work.
What am I nervous about? If this game doesn't come out, I am not affected. If it comes out and its the best game ever, I am not affected. You just rant troll and nervous words and don't know what you are talking.about.
Was the retarded part really neccesary ? Also I'm interested to know how you came to the conclusion that "Darkfall's production is insanely stupid and obviously they have no idea what they are doing, since its more of less the opposite of WoW.
".
DF (probably) less development costs than WoW and need less subs to be successful. There is also something to be said about loyalty. A smaller group of fans are easier to please than a greater group. Your statement is in my eyes flawed.
WoW may be a quality product but it is also boring. Their customer service is "unpersonal" at best. I like a game where I can "hang" with the devs. WoW has grown to big for that.
You may not be affected but you are wasting your time with a game you will not play.
---
And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.
John Smedley, SOE
The point is you haters are just changing your story to fit the latest news. Its is not vaporware now that we have a date for beta, so now it will have a bad release. It would be one thing if you haters said that Darkfall is going to be a crap game on release, then you would be fine... But when you say over and over that Darkfall is a hoax, its vaporware, it will never release, then we find out this information and all of you change your arguement to fit it.
Its like saying Well the Detroit Red Wings suck and will never win a playoff game, then after they win there first playoff game, coming back and saying well they will never win a championship. Its pretty much makes your arguement worthless because you cant stick to your guns.
Us so called fanbois have never changed our arguement that Darkfall is real and it will release why should you hates be able to adapt your arguement to fit the current news everytime some news comes along?
Glad the guilds going well... CoS is going well. Mike, your not a troll because you have a different opinion, your a troll because all you are doing is creating a useless arguement based on the information at hand, as that information changes, so does your arguement. That is trolling.
Sooner or Later
I've never said Darkfall is a hoax, might have said so a long time ago, but my opinion is and has been for a long time, that the game will not launch with all features included and/or working. *shrugs*
And I'm still not sure if the free playtesting will actually come to pass, but I'm willing to give that the benefit of doubt for now. Anyway, that's that. No, DF is not a hoax. It will eventually release (when is still up in the air), but it won#t be the game they promised.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
What hell is with this promised bullshit? The Developers never promied anything. NOTHING WAS OR IS PROMISED.
Its like saying Mythic lied to everyone because they are not going to release the game with all cities and classes they "promised".
Common sense is a great tool, too bad you have none.
Sooner or Later
What hell is with this promised bullshit? The Developers never promied anything. NOTHING WAS OR IS PROMISED.
Its like saying Mythic lied to everyone because they are not going to release the game with all cities and classes they "promised".
Common sense is a great tool, too bad you have none.
First. Calm down. I did not insult anyone here, so there's no reason for you to start insulting me.
Second, they have a feature set they promised. And yes, I was not particularly thrilled when WAR cut 4 cities and classes either. I was not thrilled when AoC launched without promised DX10. People like you and Aragon cried the loudest and pointed fingers yelling about broken promises when that happened.
But with DF it's OK? Tasos can say what he wants and as long as any kind of product is released that's all right? *smirk* Way to go.
Anyway, I see a feature list on their site and features Tasos "mentioned" in his updates. Those are the things I am talking about. And I am certain that not all of those will be in the game or they will be broken/unfinished.
Go on and insult me for that. Rather curious if you ask me.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
How funny is this? Why did you say anything else, this is the important part you said. If cookie cutter/ low barrier of entry is insanely smart and obvious they know what they are doing then from that we can safely say Darkfall's production is insanely stupid and obviously they have no idea what they are doing, since its more of less the opposite of WoW.
wow...its like he didnt even bother to read my post, and just scanned for a part where he could troll. I like this, means they are getting even more nervous.
Are you retarded?
/sarcasm Yes, you are right. I only read the middle sentence of your post and then posted. /endsarcasm
Does that make any sense to read a random sentence in the middle and post? I read everything everyone has said, the sad thing is you don't read your OWN post. You clearly say its smart to make a game appeal to lots of people yet you think an oldschool hardcore niche is going to work.
What am I nervous about? If this game doesn't come out, I am not affected. If it comes out and its the best game ever, I am not affected. You just rant troll and nervous words and don't know what you are talking.about.
Was the retarded part really neccesary ? Also I'm interested to know how you came to the conclusion that "Darkfall's production is insanely stupid and obviously they have no idea what they are doing, since its more of less the opposite of WoW.
".
DF (probably) less development costs than WoW and need less subs to be successful. There is also something to be said about loyalty. A smaller group of fans are easier to please than a greater group. Your statement is in my eyes flawed.
WoW may be a quality product but it is also boring. Their customer service is "unpersonal" at best. I like a game where I can "hang" with the devs. WoW has grown to big for that.
You may not be affected but you are wasting your time with a game you will not play.
I don't know, was it necessary? I apparently felt it was.
A smaller group of fans doesn't mean they are easier to please, that opinion holds no facts. it depends on the group of people.
You like a game where you can "hang" with the devs? Then you are barking up the wrong tree. Darkfall devs rarely let you know what's going on and if they ever do say something, its normally a lie.
And I won't bring back the retarded statement but OF COURSE my statement was flawed. I was showing comical humor, which leads me to your last comment... I follow darkfall to watch and comment on the fans that blindly follow this game. So no, I am not wasting my time, I am being entertained.
What hell is with this promised bullshit? The Developers never promied anything. NOTHING WAS OR IS PROMISED.
Its like saying Mythic lied to everyone because they are not going to release the game with all cities and classes they "promised".
Common sense is a great tool, too bad you have none.
First. Calm down. I did not insult anyone here, so there's no reason for you to start insulting me.
Second, they have a feature set they promised. And yes, I was not particularly thrilled when WAR cut 4 cities and classes either. I was not thrilled when AoC launched without promised DX10. People like you and Aragon cried the loudest and pointed fingers yelling about broken promises when that happened.
But with DF it's OK? Tasos can say what he wants and as long as any kind of product is released that's all right? *smirk* Way to go.
Anyway, I see a feature list on their site and features Tasos "mentioned" in his updates. Those are the things I am talking about. And I am certain that not all of those will be in the game or they will be broken/unfinished.
Go on and insult me for that. Rather curious if you ask me.
I was not the loudest when they said that by any means. I understand what your saying but you and others keep saying Tasos lied. That is simply not true.
The whole point is that right now all the vaporware naysayers were proven wrong, its that simple.
Now You can go though all my post if you wish but I never said Darkfall would be perfect at launch, that is just not how MMORPGs work. Now personally I think they will have everything on their feature list ready at launch because it would be suicide if they did not. I think they are smart enough to realize anything less then a full feature list would doom their game from the start.
Whether Darkfall releases in good shape or not is not the issue here. The issue here is that the Vaporware trolls are wrong and are now change there story. That is the point I am making.
Sorry for insult you but I am sick of trolls and naysayers posting "Facts" from their opinions, it gets old quickly.
Sooner or Later
What hell is with this promised bullshit? The Developers never promied anything. NOTHING WAS OR IS PROMISED.
Its like saying Mythic lied to everyone because they are not going to release the game with all cities and classes they "promised".
Common sense is a great tool, too bad you have none.
First. Calm down. I did not insult anyone here, so there's no reason for you to start insulting me.
Second, they have a feature set they promised. And yes, I was not particularly thrilled when WAR cut 4 cities and classes either. I was not thrilled when AoC launched without promised DX10. People like you and Aragon cried the loudest and pointed fingers yelling about broken promises when that happened.
But with DF it's OK? Tasos can say what he wants and as long as any kind of product is released that's all right? *smirk* Way to go.
Anyway, I see a feature list on their site and features Tasos "mentioned" in his updates. Those are the things I am talking about. And I am certain that not all of those will be in the game or they will be broken/unfinished.
Go on and insult me for that. Rather curious if you ask me.
I was not the loudest when they said that by any means. I understand what your saying but you and others keep saying Tasos lied. That is simply not true.
The whole point is that right now all the vaporware naysayers were proven wrong, its that simple.
Now You can go though all my post if you wish but I never said Darkfall would be perfect at launch, that is just not how MMORPGs work. Now personally I think they will have everything on their feature list ready at launch because it would be suicide if they did not. I think they are smart enough to realize anything less then a full feature list would doom their game from the start.
Whether Darkfall releases in good shape or not is not the issue here. The issue here is that the Vaporware trolls are wrong and are now change there story. That is the point I am making.
Sorry for insult you but I am sick of trolls and naysayers posting "Facts" from their opinions, it gets old quickly.
I'm not posting facts. It is clearly an opinion. And I am sorry for implying you when I spoke of those people jeering and cheering and pointing fingers when features were cut from other games.
Anyway, I am not saying anything else but that I believe that DF will not launch as it is currently described on the website or in the developer journals. Full Stop. Nothing more, nothing less.
As for the naysayers and trolls...well, yeah. They get ridiculous...just like the other side of the medal does too at times. No sense in being angry about that though. Sit back, relax and see what will be m8! Cheers!
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
The point is you haters are just changing your story to fit the latest news. Its is not vaporware now that we have a date for beta, so now it will have a bad release. It would be one thing if you haters said that Darkfall is going to be a crap game on release, then you would be fine... But when you say over and over that Darkfall is a hoax, its vaporware, it will never release, then we find out this information and all of you change your arguement to fit it.
Its like saying Well the Detroit Red Wings suck and will never win a playoff game, then after they win there first playoff game, coming back and saying well they will never win a championship. Its pretty much makes your arguement worthless because you cant stick to your guns.
Us so called fanbois have never changed our arguement that Darkfall is real and it will release why should you hates be able to adapt your arguement to fit the current news everytime some news comes along?
Glad the guilds going well... CoS is going well. Mike, your not a troll because you have a different opinion, your a troll because all you are doing is creating a useless arguement based on the information at hand, as that information changes, so does your arguement. That is trolling.
Changing your argument to take into account newfound information is not trolling, it's the smart thing to do in all areas. Or are you suggesting that one should not change one's argument in lieu of new information in order to keep it valid? Debating does not have memory. It doesn't matter if someone was wrong the last 99 times, you can't logically justify simply dismissing their 100th argument based on that history. It's possible they were wrong on the hoax argument (just possible because even though announcements have been made, there's still no beta or game yet) it doesn't make a different argument from them invalid.
Even if you don't agree with their new position, you're not arguing against it, you're arguing against the holders of the position because of their old argument. Argue why the game will be released with all its promised/stated/listed/mentioned/once talked about features.
I don't know, was it necessary? I apparently felt it was.
You apparantly have no clue how to debate then. And the fasttrack to my ignorelist and possible ban. yeah re-po-rt-ed
A smaller group of fans doesn't mean they are easier to please, that opinion holds no facts. it depends on the group of people.
It's not an opinion is a counterargument. Big isn't neccessary better.
You like a game where you can "hang" with the devs? Then you are barking up the wrong tree. Darkfall devs rarely let you know what's going on and if they ever do say something, its normally a lie.
I don't think so. Just look at who they prefer to show the game to. It's gamers, not press. As for the lying part, what lies are you talking about ? Are you still sore about those missed beta dates ? Really ?
And I won't bring back the retarded statement but OF COURSE my statement was flawed. I was showing comical humor, which leads me to your last comment...
What kind of humor exactly would that be? Irony, satire ?
I follow darkfall to watch and comment on the fans that blindly follow this game. So no, I am not wasting my time, I am being entertained.
Me too, trollslaying keeps me young and healthy.
---
And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.
John Smedley, SOE
Originally posted by TdogSkal
The whole point is that right now all the vaporware naysayers were proven wrong, its that simple.
------------------
They have? In what way? How?
Darkfall launched already? no it didn't.
For all you know this AudioVisual company could have a fat ass clause in this agreement with Aventurine that states they are able to pull out at anytime they feel like it for whatever reason which I am pretty sure they do....
Or it could very well say that if this "pilot test" does not go as planned they could pull out..
NOTHING is guranteed until the money is in the bank. Darkfalls success at this point is FAR from being guranteed.
All you do is take shit at face value with this thing which is what most fanboys constantly do because that's how THEY WANT it to be.
Shall I list for you all the names of games that were cancelled in Beta?
Darkfall is no where even remotely near launching. That you can be guranteed of. And if it does launch this year it will be a train wreck.
Do you even begin to understand what kind of MADNESS will begin once they actually allow thousands of people to break their 100% unproven code???
Or do you REALLY think that Darkfall with it's completely unproven engine , completely unproven Net code is going to be the first game in history to have a Beta with absolutely no problems what so ever?
You people live in a fucken fairy world that Tasos built for you...... well at least not yet..
Xris, are you still angry about AoC? What is with your "Failcom" graphic? For a troll slayer, such as you claim to be, it seems rather hypocritical to be trolling Funcom fans.
Theo, you should know by now that a fanboi is a subgroup of trolls. As they say one game's fanboi, is another game's troll.
---
And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.
John Smedley, SOE
The point is you haters are just changing your story to fit the latest news. Its is not vaporware now that we have a date for beta, so now it will have a bad release. It would be one thing if you haters said that Darkfall is going to be a crap game on release, then you would be fine... But when you say over and over that Darkfall is a hoax, its vaporware, it will never release, then we find out this information and all of you change your arguement to fit it.
Its like saying Well the Detroit Red Wings suck and will never win a playoff game, then after they win there first playoff game, coming back and saying well they will never win a championship. Its pretty much makes your arguement worthless because you cant stick to your guns.
Us so called fanbois have never changed our arguement that Darkfall is real and it will release why should you hates be able to adapt your arguement to fit the current news everytime some news comes along?
Glad the guilds going well... CoS is going well. Mike, your not a troll because you have a different opinion, your a troll because all you are doing is creating a useless arguement based on the information at hand, as that information changes, so does your arguement. That is trolling.
Changing your argument to take into account newfound information is not trolling, it's the smart thing to do in all areas. Or are you suggesting that one should not change one's argument in lieu of new information in order to keep it valid? Debating does not have memory. It doesn't matter if someone was wrong the last 99 times, you can't logically justify simply dismissing their 100th argument based on that history. It's possible they were wrong on the hoax argument (just possible because even though announcements have been made, there's still no beta or game yet) it doesn't make a different argument from them invalid.
Even if you don't agree with their new position, you're not arguing against it, you're arguing against the holders of the position because of their old argument. Argue why the game will be released with all its promised/stated/listed/mentioned/once talked about features.
See that is bullshit, if you can change your arguement everytime new information is released then you can never be wrong..
The naysayers were wrong, the beta will be released in Oct 2008. That made their vaporware/hoax arguement wrong... I have not seen one hater/troll state that fact, now they just changed their story to the game will suck on release.
So what your saying is that as long as they change their arguement to fit the latest news then they were never wrong in the first place? If someone was wrong on their arguement 99 times then got 1 right, guess what they are still wrong most of the time. Logic is simple my friend. Logically they were wrong about the vaporware/hoax arguement, now if they admit they were wrong and then state their new position, I would be fine with that but that is not the case here.
If you can't understand what is wrong with that then their is no reason to keep talking to you.
Sooner or Later
"Or it could very well say that if this "pilot test" does not go as planned they could pull out" and that is fine but with that pilot test it proves its not vaporware... all I am saying
I never said Darkfall is going to be successful or be perfect on release, I simply said Darkfall is not a hoax or vaporware.
What cannot you not understand... you are talking about two different things... a game releasing and not being complete shit and a game that is not real.
The game is real, we know that. We know they are planning to release a Beta in Oct 2008. Darkfall is not vaporware, end of arguement. Vaporware trolls are wrong...
Now whether Darkfall is successful or feature complete or what state its in on release is a whole another topic which is not the point. The point being its not Vaporware.
Seriously its not that hard to understand.
Sooner or Later
QFT
This is how Fortune tellers work, it's how Dictators keep their populations believing what they want them to believe, it's how Sony remains one of the largest companies in the world, oh, wait, no they just lie, cheat and steal, but hey, they're as bad as the other two.
seriously let the game launch and let the chips fall where they may. if the game succeeds good, if it doesnt, doesnt change the fact that we can always go to a new MMO to troll, flame, or preach about
. we all got options.
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
The point is you haters are just changing your story to fit the latest news. Its is not vaporware now that we have a date for beta, so now it will have a bad release. It would be one thing if you haters said that Darkfall is going to be a crap game on release, then you would be fine... But when you say over and over that Darkfall is a hoax, its vaporware, it will never release, then we find out this information and all of you change your arguement to fit it.
Its like saying Well the Detroit Red Wings suck and will never win a playoff game, then after they win there first playoff game, coming back and saying well they will never win a championship. Its pretty much makes your arguement worthless because you cant stick to your guns.
Us so called fanbois have never changed our arguement that Darkfall is real and it will release why should you hates be able to adapt your arguement to fit the current news everytime some news comes along?
Glad the guilds going well... CoS is going well. Mike, your not a troll because you have a different opinion, your a troll because all you are doing is creating a useless arguement based on the information at hand, as that information changes, so does your arguement. That is trolling.
Changing your argument to take into account newfound information is not trolling, it's the smart thing to do in all areas. Or are you suggesting that one should not change one's argument in lieu of new information in order to keep it valid? Debating does not have memory. It doesn't matter if someone was wrong the last 99 times, you can't logically justify simply dismissing their 100th argument based on that history. It's possible they were wrong on the hoax argument (just possible because even though announcements have been made, there's still no beta or game yet) it doesn't make a different argument from them invalid.
Even if you don't agree with their new position, you're not arguing against it, you're arguing against the holders of the position because of their old argument. Argue why the game will be released with all its promised/stated/listed/mentioned/once talked about features.
See that is bullshit, if you can change your arguement everytime new information is released then you can never be wrong..
The naysayers were wrong, the beta will be released in Oct 2008. That made their vaporware/hoax arguement wrong... I have not seen one hater/troll state that fact, now they just changed their story to the game will suck on release.
So what your saying is that as long as they change their arguement to fit the latest news then they were never wrong in the first place? If someone was wrong on their arguement 99 times then got 1 right, guess what they are still wrong most of the time. Logic is simple my friend. Logically they were wrong about the vaporware/hoax arguement, now if they admit they were wrong and then state their new position, I would be fine with that but that is not the case here.
If you can't understand what is wrong with that then their is no reason to keep talking to you.
Where did I say that changing your arguments meant you weren't wrong in the past? Are you reading my posts? If you're wrong, you're wrong, but that doesn't make your next argument wrong as well. I said it doesn't matter how wrong or how many times one person has been wrong in the past, it doesn't make their new arguments invalid. Logic is not statistics or viceversa.
And while probable, do not forget that they haven't yet been proven wrong yet. The only way that argument can be proven wrong is for DF to release commercially.
Instead of dismissing their arguments of the game being unsatisfactory on release by pointing out who they are and how you believe they were wrong on their last argument, argue against the game being unsatisfactory. If you feel you've won the hoax argument, there's no need to bring it up (unless you take pleasure from that, but that's not debating, that's just gloating a bit too soon), and you can't use that as a detractor for their current argument.
If you keep your feelings away from reading the post, you will notice that I am not arguing for either side here. I am just asking you to debate properly and logically.
The point is you haters are just changing your story to fit the latest news. Its is not vaporware now that we have a date for beta, so now it will have a bad release. It would be one thing if you haters said that Darkfall is going to be a crap game on release, then you would be fine... But when you say over and over that Darkfall is a hoax, its vaporware, it will never release, then we find out this information and all of you change your arguement to fit it.
Its like saying Well the Detroit Red Wings suck and will never win a playoff game, then after they win there first playoff game, coming back and saying well they will never win a championship. Its pretty much makes your arguement worthless because you cant stick to your guns.
Us so called fanbois have never changed our arguement that Darkfall is real and it will release why should you hates be able to adapt your arguement to fit the current news everytime some news comes along?
Glad the guilds going well... CoS is going well. Mike, your not a troll because you have a different opinion, your a troll because all you are doing is creating a useless arguement based on the information at hand, as that information changes, so does your arguement. That is trolling.
Changing your argument to take into account newfound information is not trolling, it's the smart thing to do in all areas. Or are you suggesting that one should not change one's argument in lieu of new information in order to keep it valid? Debating does not have memory. It doesn't matter if someone was wrong the last 99 times, you can't logically justify simply dismissing their 100th argument based on that history. It's possible they were wrong on the hoax argument (just possible because even though announcements have been made, there's still no beta or game yet) it doesn't make a different argument from them invalid.
Even if you don't agree with their new position, you're not arguing against it, you're arguing against the holders of the position because of their old argument. Argue why the game will be released with all its promised/stated/listed/mentioned/once talked about features.
See that is bullshit, if you can change your arguement everytime new information is released then you can never be wrong..
The naysayers were wrong, the beta will be released in Oct 2008. That made their vaporware/hoax arguement wrong... I have not seen one hater/troll state that fact, now they just changed their story to the game will suck on release.
So what your saying is that as long as they change their arguement to fit the latest news then they were never wrong in the first place? If someone was wrong on their arguement 99 times then got 1 right, guess what they are still wrong most of the time. Logic is simple my friend. Logically they were wrong about the vaporware/hoax arguement, now if they admit they were wrong and then state their new position, I would be fine with that but that is not the case here.
If you can't understand what is wrong with that then their is no reason to keep talking to you.
Where did I say that changing your arguments meant you weren't wrong in the past? Are you reading my posts? If you're wrong, you're wrong, but that doesn't make your next argument wrong as well. I said it doesn't matter how wrong or how many times one person has been wrong in the past, it doesn't make their new arguments invalid. Logic is not statistics or viceversa.
And while probable, do not forget that they haven't yet been proven wrong yet. The only way that argument can be proven wrong is for DF to release commercially.
Instead of dismissing their arguments of the game being unsatisfactory on release by pointing out who they are and how you believe they were wrong on their last argument, argue against the game being unsatisfactory. If you feel you've won the hoax argument, there's no need to bring it up (unless you take pleasure from that, but that's not debating, that's just gloating a bit too soon), and you can't use that as a detractor for their current argument.
If you keep your feelings away from reading the post, you will notice that I am not arguing for either side here. I am just asking you to debate properly and logically.
No logical debate will deny statistics, so I hate to say it, but just because locic dictates that because someone's arguement was not right before can not by any means dismiss the that persons next arguement is illogical in it's ignorance of statistics.
Even logic has it's limits on the grounds of chaos theory vs. statistics.