Hi Tdog, guilds coming along nicely. It's a little early, but ya need to be patient with this kind of stuff, eh? Oh right, the post. On with the discussion!
So your saying that Darkfall only has 2 possiable outcomes? Not releasing or sucking on release? The chances of DF having a decent release are very slim. Beta for a month, then release? One month, especially with all of these "features" that DF has.. I'm very doubtful. Professional testers are nice, but you need more than 10-200 people to test a game; especially with all of Darkfall's "features" How did you come up with that... what about 2 more opinions... It is great on release or it is playable on release? As I said above, that seems like a slim chance. Beta is important..isn't that what you do an an intern? You trolls are amazing.... Last week It was "it will never come out, its vaporware"... this week its "It will suck on release or not come out at all." Way to cover your asses. There's a possibility of vaporware; although it is a less of a chance than before. There is nothing wrong with changing the arguement, especially when things happen this suddenly. Honestly, if DF releases, I don't see a good release. But, I guess that makes me a troll thinking differently. Please do us all a favor and dont play Darkfall on release, the last thing we need is a bunch of cry babies on the forums because they died and lost all there stuff. hehe. I played a full loot game for six years, and I'm going to begin playing another one if I like the free version and can join a decent village. I've died and lost so many valuable things, but I stick around. Aren't you the one who says not to generalize?
The point is you haters are just changing your story to fit the latest news. Its is not vaporware now that we have a date for beta, so now it will have a bad release. It would be one thing if you haters said that Darkfall is going to be a crap game on release, then you would be fine... But when you say over and over that Darkfall is a hoax, its vaporware, it will never release, then we find out this information and all of you change your arguement to fit it.
Its like saying Well the Detroit Red Wings suck and will never win a playoff game, then after they win there first playoff game, coming back and saying well they will never win a championship. Its pretty much makes your arguement worthless because you cant stick to your guns.
Us so called fanbois have never changed our arguement that Darkfall is real and it will release why should you hates be able to adapt your arguement to fit the current news everytime some news comes along?
Glad the guilds going well... CoS is going well. Mike, your not a troll because you have a different opinion, your a troll because all you are doing is creating a useless arguement based on the information at hand, as that information changes, so does your arguement. That is trolling.
Changing your argument to take into account newfound information is not trolling, it's the smart thing to do in all areas. Or are you suggesting that one should not change one's argument in lieu of new information in order to keep it valid? Debating does not have memory. It doesn't matter if someone was wrong the last 99 times, you can't logically justify simply dismissing their 100th argument based on that history. It's possible they were wrong on the hoax argument (just possible because even though announcements have been made, there's still no beta or game yet) it doesn't make a different argument from them invalid.
Even if you don't agree with their new position, you're not arguing against it, you're arguing against the holders of the position because of their old argument. Argue why the game will be released with all its promised/stated/listed/mentioned/once talked about features.
See that is bullshit, if you can change your arguement everytime new information is released then you can never be wrong..
The naysayers were wrong, the beta will be released in Oct 2008. That made their vaporware/hoax arguement wrong... I have not seen one hater/troll state that fact, now they just changed their story to the game will suck on release.
So what your saying is that as long as they change their arguement to fit the latest news then they were never wrong in the first place? If someone was wrong on their arguement 99 times then got 1 right, guess what they are still wrong most of the time. Logic is simple my friend. Logically they were wrong about the vaporware/hoax arguement, now if they admit they were wrong and then state their new position, I would be fine with that but that is not the case here.
If you can't understand what is wrong with that then their is no reason to keep talking to you.
Where did I say that changing your arguments meant you weren't wrong in the past? Are you reading my posts? If you're wrong, you're wrong, but that doesn't make your next argument wrong as well. I said it doesn't matter how wrong or how many times one person has been wrong in the past, it doesn't make their new arguments invalid. Logic is not statistics or viceversa.
And while probable, do not forget that they haven't yet been proven wrong yet. The only way that argument can be proven wrong is for DF to release commercially.
Instead of dismissing their arguments of the game being unsatisfactory on release by pointing out who they are and how you believe they were wrong on their last argument, argue against the game being unsatisfactory. If you feel you've won the hoax argument, there's no need to bring it up (unless you take pleasure from that, but that's not debating, that's just gloating a bit too soon), and you can't use that as a detractor for their current argument.
If you keep your feelings away from reading the post, you will notice that I am not arguing for either side here. I am just asking you to debate properly and logically.
Did you read my post at all? because I never said that there new arguement would not be valid because their old one was wrong.. what I am saying is that they have not admitted that they were wrong on their last arguement and are now saying that the game will release but it will be shitty.
Do you understand the problem with that? To have a new arguement, you either have to admit you were wrong on the last one or prove you were right.
You cannot just change your last arguement to fit in with the new information. Their first arguement was wrong, NONE of them have even said that, they just choose to pick a new arguement to make them look right again.
Nobody can argue that the game will be unsatisfactory because we have not played the game yet, we do know the game is real and will start a beta in Oct 2008. So the Vaporware/hoax arguement was wrong. Now what state the game is come release is still up in the AIR and nobody can say it will be good or bad yet with any kind of facts.
Do you get it? I dont care about their new debate until we finish the last debate. And after being called a ton of different things because I beleive Darkfall is real, your dam right I get pleasure for rubbing their face in it.
I'm betting it will be released by the end of the year, and that it will be a really god game, but you never really know until you play it. My question is, where do the user-submitted screen shots coming from?
Originally posted by TdogSkal Did you read my post at all? because I never said that there new arguement would not be valid because their old one was wrong.. what I am saying is that they have not admitted that they were wrong on their last arguement and are now saying that the game will release but it will be shitty. Do you understand the problem with that? To have a new arguement, you either have to admit you were wrong on the last one or prove you were right. You cannot just change your last arguement to fit in with the new information. Their first arguement was wrong, NONE of them have even said that, they just choose to pick a new arguement to make them look right again. Nobody can argue that the game will be unsatisfactory because we have not played the game yet, we do know the game is real and will start a beta in Oct 2008. So the Vaporware/hoax arguement was wrong. Now what state the game is come release is still up in the AIR and nobody can say it will be good or bad yet with any kind of facts. Do you get it? I dont care about their new debate until we finish the last debate. And after being called a ton of different things because I beleive Darkfall is real, your dam right I get pleasure for rubbing their face in it.
Oh I read it. What I read from this one though, is that you're unwilling to consider their new argument until you get some sort of self-served closure on the old one by way of admission of defeat from the so called trolls. So basically you just decided to ignore it, which is, of course, your prerogative. By the way, I must again warn you that you haven't proven them wrong yet. That can't happen until the game releases commercially, regardless of announcements, so you won't hear any admissions of defeat from anyone yet. If you choose to wait for release or cancellation before you argue quality, again that's your prerogative, but trolls have already moved on to that, and you can't dismiss (just ignore, thus not comment on) their arguments by saying you expect them to do anything unrelated to the argument itself before it can be valid.
No logical debate will deny statistics, so I hate to say it, but just because locic dictates that because someone's arguement was not right before can not by any means dismiss the that persons next arguement is illogical in it's ignorance of statistics. Even logic has it's limits on the grounds of chaos theory vs. statistics.
This is where we disagree. Then again, I'm talking about a strictly logical debate, argument for argument, not debater for debater. Logic can't have memory or be influenced by past results, or it won't be completely objective. Logic isn't based on statistics, or I could logically argue that any given person is chinese. Much like the kid who cried wolf parable, just because someone has been wrong/lying most of the time, you can't logically dismiss their new argument as wrong or invalid. I have no idea what chaos theory has to do with anything we've been talking about, do you really know what it is?
Please do us all a favor and dont play Darkfall on release, the last thing we need is a bunch of cry babies on the forums because they died and lost all there stuff.
That's actually one more reason the game could fail. No one will pay to play it if it actually does release because of it's gameplay style.
It's basically just like Asheron's Call 1 on the Dark tide server and no one ever used to play there either.. always empty because of it's hardcore style... It drives people away.. doesn't attract them.
Wouldn't it be funny if the game actually launches with everything they say and it ends up failing because of it's style of play?
Either way.. Darkfall will never have a huge population because of how they built it. And that may very well be it's final undoing.
Irony at it's best.
Darkfall does not need a big population. Something along the line of EvE works for me and most other players looking at Darkfall.
Also Darkfall has never been prompted as a WOW killer or the next big MMO. It has always been a niche game and it will always be a niche game... Most people that want to play it are hoping that it is the start of bring the MMO genre back from the "Dark Ages" we are currently in.
For a moment I thought you are the owner or company financing this project. You do not need a big population, you can keep losing money and run a game called darkfall with only 10 subscribers. I am rich enough to pay you $50million and care not about recouping my investment.
Why would an investor develop a game knowing that there will be few followers? They have too much spare money to waste and they need to please the few PVPers who have no other games to play. Oh really? Speechless ...
Originally posted by TdogSkal Did you read my post at all? because I never said that there new arguement would not be valid because their old one was wrong.. what I am saying is that they have not admitted that they were wrong on their last arguement and are now saying that the game will release but it will be shitty. Do you understand the problem with that? To have a new arguement, you either have to admit you were wrong on the last one or prove you were right. You cannot just change your last arguement to fit in with the new information. Their first arguement was wrong, NONE of them have even said that, they just choose to pick a new arguement to make them look right again. Nobody can argue that the game will be unsatisfactory because we have not played the game yet, we do know the game is real and will start a beta in Oct 2008. So the Vaporware/hoax arguement was wrong. Now what state the game is come release is still up in the AIR and nobody can say it will be good or bad yet with any kind of facts. Do you get it? I dont care about their new debate until we finish the last debate. And after being called a ton of different things because I beleive Darkfall is real, your dam right I get pleasure for rubbing their face in it.
Oh I read it. What I read from this one though, is that you're unwilling to consider their new argument until you get some sort of self-served closure on the old one by way of admission of defeat from the so called trolls. So basically you just decided to ignore it, which is, of course, your prerogative. By the way, I must again warn you that you haven't proven them wrong yet. That can't happen until the game releases commercially, regardless of announcements, so you won't hear any admissions of defeat from anyone yet. If you choose to wait for release or cancellation before you argue quality, again that's your prerogative, but trolls have already moved on to that, and you can't dismiss (just ignore, thus not comment on) their arguments by saying you expect them to do anything unrelated to the argument itself before it can be valid.
Yes I agree.
Darkfall has proven nothing so far. Announcing a new video is not a proof. Its an annoucement. Defunct companies and dead gov't typically make a lot of announcement down to the moment of its downfall.
Likewise, making a video is not the same thing as making a game, much less a game with so much being promised. So much has been said and so little done over the course of 7 years+. If I can still hold faith in such a soap opera, every fortune teller on earth will come knocking on my door tomorrow.
Originally posted by TdogSkal Did you read my post at all? because I never said that there new arguement would not be valid because their old one was wrong.. what I am saying is that they have not admitted that they were wrong on their last arguement and are now saying that the game will release but it will be shitty. Do you understand the problem with that? To have a new arguement, you either have to admit you were wrong on the last one or prove you were right. You cannot just change your last arguement to fit in with the new information. Their first arguement was wrong, NONE of them have even said that, they just choose to pick a new arguement to make them look right again. Nobody can argue that the game will be unsatisfactory because we have not played the game yet, we do know the game is real and will start a beta in Oct 2008. So the Vaporware/hoax arguement was wrong. Now what state the game is come release is still up in the AIR and nobody can say it will be good or bad yet with any kind of facts. Do you get it? I dont care about their new debate until we finish the last debate. And after being called a ton of different things because I beleive Darkfall is real, your dam right I get pleasure for rubbing their face in it.
Oh I read it. What I read from this one though, is that you're unwilling to consider their new argument until you get some sort of self-served closure on the old one by way of admission of defeat from the so called trolls. So basically you just decided to ignore it, which is, of course, your prerogative. By the way, I must again warn you that you haven't proven them wrong yet. That can't happen until the game releases commercially, regardless of announcements, so you won't hear any admissions of defeat from anyone yet. If you choose to wait for release or cancellation before you argue quality, again that's your prerogative, but trolls have already moved on to that, and you can't dismiss (just ignore, thus not comment on) their arguments by saying you expect them to do anything unrelated to the argument itself before it can be valid.
Yes I agree.
Darkfall has proven nothing so far. Announcing a new video is not a proof. Its an annoucement. Defunct companies and dead gov't typically make a lot of announcement down to the moment of its downfall.
Likewise, making a video is not the same thing as making a game, much less a game with so much being promised. So much has been said and so little done over the course of 7 years+. If I can still hold faith in such a soap opera, every fortune teller on earth will come knocking on my door tomorrow.
Originally posted by TdogSkal Did you read my post at all? because I never said that there new arguement would not be valid because their old one was wrong.. what I am saying is that they have not admitted that they were wrong on their last arguement and are now saying that the game will release but it will be shitty. Do you understand the problem with that? To have a new arguement, you either have to admit you were wrong on the last one or prove you were right. You cannot just change your last arguement to fit in with the new information. Their first arguement was wrong, NONE of them have even said that, they just choose to pick a new arguement to make them look right again. Nobody can argue that the game will be unsatisfactory because we have not played the game yet, we do know the game is real and will start a beta in Oct 2008. So the Vaporware/hoax arguement was wrong. Now what state the game is come release is still up in the AIR and nobody can say it will be good or bad yet with any kind of facts. Do you get it? I dont care about their new debate until we finish the last debate. And after being called a ton of different things because I beleive Darkfall is real, your dam right I get pleasure for rubbing their face in it.
Oh I read it. What I read from this one though, is that you're unwilling to consider their new argument until you get some sort of self-served closure on the old one by way of admission of defeat from the so called trolls. So basically you just decided to ignore it, which is, of course, your prerogative. By the way, I must again warn you that you haven't proven them wrong yet. That can't happen until the game releases commercially, regardless of announcements, so you won't hear any admissions of defeat from anyone yet. If you choose to wait for release or cancellation before you argue quality, again that's your prerogative, but trolls have already moved on to that, and you can't dismiss (just ignore, thus not comment on) their arguments by saying you expect them to do anything unrelated to the argument itself before it can be valid.
Yes I agree.
Darkfall has proven nothing so far. Announcing a new video is not a proof. Its an annoucement. Defunct companies and dead gov't typically make a lot of announcement down to the moment of its downfall.
Likewise, making a video is not the same thing as making a game, much less a game with so much being promised. So much has been said and so little done over the course of 7 years+. If I can still hold faith in such a soap opera, every fortune teller on earth will come knocking on my door tomorrow.
Laughing out loud, You SIR ARE aware that the "announced video" is already released?
and to the good fellow Silvarch, go and look up the term vaporware, since the definition of the term does not fit Darkfall Online, you have been proven wrong. Here I'll help you with a link aswell http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
***************************** I have nothing clever to say.
How much more obvious can it be? They are kicking this thing out the door. It's so obvious. Just look at the facts. They signed away their rights to a "publisher" who has absolutely no experience in video games. Gave them right to the ENTIRE world. Who does that if they have options? Nobody. Because they had no other options. They are claiming the game will launch in 2008. How long can a beta be when theres less then 4 months left in the year? A few short weeks at most? They are booting this out.. Just like Ubisoft finally did to Shadowbane. Bug ridden and outdated. My congrats go out to Aventurine.
Just about every MMO signs with a publisher, including the most successful ones. But yeah you're right(got any kind of facts at all?) they are def just kicking this game out the door after 8 years of development. Why can't they just take their time?!
What game did you play that had an open beta that lasted 4 months?
LMFAO. Great news! I hope that real people get to play this game in October. I cannot wait to see the reviews of Darkfall after its thrown out in the massive pile of crap that it will no doubt be. Then we can finally compare the reviews and the games "Age of Conan" vs "Darkfall" since all these Darkfall fans have been so persistent in trashing Age of Conan and even calling it a "hoax" here. Can't wait to see all of the promised features of Darkfall functional and running as Tasos has told us. LMAO. Oh boy this is gonna be good. This game is gonna make Dark and Light and Mourning look great in contrast. It is good to see that Adventurine has finally given up on this game now though and that all the fans will finally get their bubbles busted and realize that their dreams have been ohhh so unrealistic. I honestly can't wait for this. The shit is truly gonna hit the fan. And it will be fun to watch this time around.
- Zaxx
I never really thought we'd see the day when some tool named "Tasos Flambouras" became a religious icon and symbol of so much blind faith. If only people believed in things like "love" and "peace" as much as they do this guy, man.. would we have a better, safer world.
How are our dreams unrealistic? UO to this date still probalby had the most freedom of any game and it was one of the firsts. Not our fault everyone has fallen into the WoW era and forgot what real MMOs where made of.
How much more obvious can it be? They are kicking this thing out the door. It's so obvious. Just look at the facts. They signed away their rights to a "publisher" who has absolutely no experience in video games. Gave them right to the ENTIRE world. Who does that if they have options? Nobody. Because they had no other options. They are claiming the game will launch in 2008. How long can a beta be when theres less then 4 months left in the year? A few short weeks at most? They are booting this out.. Just like Ubisoft finally did to Shadowbane. Bug ridden and outdated. My congrats go out to Aventurine.
Just about every MMO signs with a publisher, including the most successful ones. But yeah you're right(got any kind of facts at all?) they are def just kicking this game out the door after 8 years of development. Why can't they just take their time?!
What game did you play that had an open beta that lasted 4 months?
What MMO have you played that was of "average"(not even saying good) quality, that at 4 months from release had 3 videos, NO ONE has played it, and had a Publisher who has never published games?
Originally posted by TdogSkal Did you read my post at all? because I never said that there new arguement would not be valid because their old one was wrong.. what I am saying is that they have not admitted that they were wrong on their last arguement and are now saying that the game will release but it will be shitty. Do you understand the problem with that? To have a new arguement, you either have to admit you were wrong on the last one or prove you were right. You cannot just change your last arguement to fit in with the new information. Their first arguement was wrong, NONE of them have even said that, they just choose to pick a new arguement to make them look right again. Nobody can argue that the game will be unsatisfactory because we have not played the game yet, we do know the game is real and will start a beta in Oct 2008. So the Vaporware/hoax arguement was wrong. Now what state the game is come release is still up in the AIR and nobody can say it will be good or bad yet with any kind of facts. Do you get it? I dont care about their new debate until we finish the last debate. And after being called a ton of different things because I beleive Darkfall is real, your dam right I get pleasure for rubbing their face in it.
Oh I read it. What I read from this one though, is that you're unwilling to consider their new argument until you get some sort of self-served closure on the old one by way of admission of defeat from the so called trolls. So basically you just decided to ignore it, which is, of course, your prerogative. By the way, I must again warn you that you haven't proven them wrong yet. That can't happen until the game releases commercially, regardless of announcements, so you won't hear any admissions of defeat from anyone yet. If you choose to wait for release or cancellation before you argue quality, again that's your prerogative, but trolls have already moved on to that, and you can't dismiss (just ignore, thus not comment on) their arguments by saying you expect them to do anything unrelated to the argument itself before it can be valid.
Yes I agree.
Darkfall has proven nothing so far. Announcing a new video is not a proof. Its an annoucement. Defunct companies and dead gov't typically make a lot of announcement down to the moment of its downfall.
Likewise, making a video is not the same thing as making a game, much less a game with so much being promised. So much has been said and so little done over the course of 7 years+. If I can still hold faith in such a soap opera, every fortune teller on earth will come knocking on my door tomorrow.
Laughing out loud, You SIR ARE aware that the "announced video" is already released?
and to the good fellow Silvarch, go and look up the term vaporware, since the definition of the term does not fit Darkfall Online, you have been proven wrong. Here I'll help you with a link aswell http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
Dear nileq, it seems you are misunderstanding a lot of things. Am I part of the group that has been said to have been proven wrong? No. Do I believe they have a game? Yes, I always have. Do I believe it's vaporware in spite, or even because of what's been said about it? Yes. Although my last two answers may seem mutually exclusive, they're not, and I will use the article you so kindly provided (apparently without reading it) to demonstrate how it is so.
Do see the types section of the vaporware article that you linked? Especifically the "obsolete on delivery", "overambitious hype" and especially the "falling short of expectations" types of vaporware? Darkfall has yet to prove it isn't either of those. So you see, even if/when it does release it could still end up being vaporware by the very definition you heralded. If you want to be anal, it hasn't yet released, so it hasn't proved it's not vaporware (the existential kind) at all, but since I actually do believe they have a game, I won't argue that.
So as you see, no one has been proven wrong yet, except for those who said the video wouldn't be released on August or at all. Only once the beta is playable then those who said or thought the game did exist will have been proven wrong. Only once the game releases, those who said or thought it wouldn't release would be wrong. Only once the game proves to be of great quality and everything people expected and have everything it was claimed to have then those who think otherwise would be wrong. Until then their guesses are as valid (if not equally probable) as yours.
I love how they say that they took waaaay to long to develop this game, then all the sudden it is they are kicking this game out the door, so what is it, they are taking to long, or releasing to soon, I am so confused.
ohhh yeah! I'm soooo nervous that the game will succeed and be so great! I'd hate to have a game like Darkfall promises to be available for me to play! ROTF.
Not nervous at all buddy. I hope like hell I am wrong and all you fans are right.
But I'm not wrong. The shit's gonna hit the fan BIGTIME, and this time, with this game... I'm not gonna be one of the sad little faces disappointed and shattered. I'm gonna kick back and watch it all as a big comedy and self entertainment.
Again, trust me... I hope that I am wrong - And in the tiny sliver of chances that I am, I will be the first one here admitting to such. And then I'll be logging back into the game moments later! lol.
- Zaxx
Well given that Funcom got away with this sorta behavior without a class action lawsuit filed against them, I would say you might just be right Zaxx. Maybe it will be crap and rushed to GOLD before its ready.
On the other hand I could give a crap, because I play ryzom with beer when I get home every night. So until I can get a free trial of ANY GAME, I wont be preordering ANYTHING.
if this releases with full loot, skills, and working merchants, well, hell i'll pay2beta it. i've done that for lesser games. i'm not going to point the finger and say "unfinished", because Shadowbane was (and still is) the most unfinished MMO ever, and it's probably my favorite
if it's vaporware, then fuck them, but i'll admit i was a little impressed by that vid. they didn't hide the shortcomings, and really they even used them to a degree, in a kinda campy Shadowbane way. that made me happy. also, music aside, this is a game video done right (music is just a personal gripe, and i can easily fix that by pressing play on my winamp). obv it's all staged, but it didn't look or feel "on-rails"
if the infrastructure- the barebones even- to support all of the things featured in the video, even minimally, exists in the release, i'll buy it. and everyone who loves PVP should too, because you're not going to get anything else in the near future
Jesus Christ was a good guy. he may or may not have been the savior. is the PVP community really in the position to crucify the good guy, just because he might not be the son of God? last time i checked, this year's MMO prospects include Warhammer Online and some more asian grindfests. hate to do a 180, but if DF comes, i'm all up innit
if this releases with full loot, skills, and working merchants, well, hell i'll pay2beta it. i've done that for lesser games. i'm not going to point the finger and say "unfinished", because Shadowbane was (and still is) the most unfinished MMO ever, and it's probably my favorite if it's vaporware, then fuck them, but i'll admit i was a little impressed by that vid. they didn't hide the shortcomings, and really they even used them to a degree, in a kinda campy Shadowbane way. that made me happy. also, music aside, this is a game video done right (music is just a personal gripe, and i can easily fix that by pressing play on my winamp). obv it's all staged, but it didn't look or feel "on-rails" if the infrastructure- the barebones even- to support all of the things featured in the video, even minimally, exists in the release, i'll buy it. and everyone who loves PVP should too, because you're not going to get anything else in the near future Jesus Christ was a good guy. he may or may not have been the savior. is the PVP community really in the position to crucify the good guy, just because he might not be the son of God? last time i checked, this year's MMO prospects include Warhammer Online and some more asian grindfests. hate to do a 180, but if DF comes, i'm all up innit
How much more obvious can it be? They are kicking this thing out the door. It's so obvious. Just look at the facts. They signed away their rights to a "publisher" who has absolutely no experience in video games. Gave them right to the ENTIRE world. Who does that if they have options? Nobody. Because they had no other options. They are claiming the game will launch in 2008. How long can a beta be when theres less then 4 months left in the year? A few short weeks at most? They are booting this out.. Just like Ubisoft finally did to Shadowbane. Bug ridden and outdated. My congrats go out to Aventurine.
Originally posted by TdogSkal Did you read my post at all? because I never said that there new arguement would not be valid because their old one was wrong.. what I am saying is that they have not admitted that they were wrong on their last arguement and are now saying that the game will release but it will be shitty. Do you understand the problem with that? To have a new arguement, you either have to admit you were wrong on the last one or prove you were right. You cannot just change your last arguement to fit in with the new information. Their first arguement was wrong, NONE of them have even said that, they just choose to pick a new arguement to make them look right again. Nobody can argue that the game will be unsatisfactory because we have not played the game yet, we do know the game is real and will start a beta in Oct 2008. So the Vaporware/hoax arguement was wrong. Now what state the game is come release is still up in the AIR and nobody can say it will be good or bad yet with any kind of facts. Do you get it? I dont care about their new debate until we finish the last debate. And after being called a ton of different things because I beleive Darkfall is real, your dam right I get pleasure for rubbing their face in it.
Oh I read it. What I read from this one though, is that you're unwilling to consider their new argument until you get some sort of self-served closure on the old one by way of admission of defeat from the so called trolls. So basically you just decided to ignore it, which is, of course, your prerogative. By the way, I must again warn you that you haven't proven them wrong yet. That can't happen until the game releases commercially, regardless of announcements, so you won't hear any admissions of defeat from anyone yet. If you choose to wait for release or cancellation before you argue quality, again that's your prerogative, but trolls have already moved on to that, and you can't dismiss (just ignore, thus not comment on) their arguments by saying you expect them to do anything unrelated to the argument itself before it can be valid.
Yes I agree.
Darkfall has proven nothing so far. Announcing a new video is not a proof. Its an annoucement. Defunct companies and dead gov't typically make a lot of announcement down to the moment of its downfall.
Likewise, making a video is not the same thing as making a game, much less a game with so much being promised. So much has been said and so little done over the course of 7 years+. If I can still hold faith in such a soap opera, every fortune teller on earth will come knocking on my door tomorrow.
Laughing out loud, You SIR ARE aware that the "announced video" is already released?
and to the good fellow Silvarch, go and look up the term vaporware, since the definition of the term does not fit Darkfall Online, you have been proven wrong. Here I'll help you with a link aswell http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
Dear nileq, it seems you are misunderstanding a lot of things. Am I part of the group that has been said to have been proven wrong? No. Do I believe they have a game? Yes, I always have. Do I believe it's vaporware in spite, or even because of what's been said about it? Yes. Although my last two answers may seem mutually exclusive, they're not, and I will use the article you so kindly provided (apparently without reading it) to demonstrate how it is so.
Do see the types section of the vaporware article that you linked? Especifically the "obsolete on delivery", "overambitious hype" and especially the "falling short of expectations" types of vaporware? Darkfall has yet to prove it isn't either of those. So you see, even if/when it does release it could still end up being vaporware by the very definition you heralded. If you want to be anal, it hasn't yet released, so it hasn't proved it's not vaporware (the existential kind) at all, but since I actually do believe they have a game, I won't argue that.
So as you see, no one has been proven wrong yet, except for those who said the video wouldn't be released on August or at all. Only once the beta is playable then those who said or thought the game did exist will have been proven wrong. Only once the game releases, those who said or thought it wouldn't release would be wrong. Only once the game proves to be of great quality and everything people expected and have everything it was claimed to have then those who think otherwise would be wrong. Until then their guesses are as valid (if not equally probable) as yours.
Well as you yourself state in your reply :
-"Darkfall has yet to prove it isn't either of those"
-" it could still end up being vaporware"
-"If you want to be anal, it hasn't yet released, so it hasn't proved it's not vaporware " <<-- Well this is my point. You say you have the right to lable it Vapourware, on the grounds that you havent played it yet..
Well there are to ways a vapourware product can end up:
1. Cancelled and not delivered at all.
2. Delivered in a bad state, not delivering on almost anything that was promised.
Since it has yet to be cancelled, and you SIR have yet to play it, you CANNOT label it Vapourware.
I could go on and make references to alot of games (all that as of today is announced and not yet gone gold) including WAR (games has been cancelled in beta before). And by your logic lable them all Vapourware, but that has been done to death in these forums.
It is quite simple really.
***************************** I have nothing clever to say.
LMFAO. Great news! I hope that real people get to play this game in October. I cannot wait to see the reviews of Darkfall after its thrown out in the massive pile of crap that it will no doubt be. Then we can finally compare the reviews and the games "Age of Conan" vs "Darkfall" since all these Darkfall fans have been so persistent in trashing Age of Conan and even calling it a "hoax" here. Can't wait to see all of the promised features of Darkfall functional and running as Tasos has told us. LMAO. Oh boy this is gonna be good. This game is gonna make Dark and Light and Mourning look great in contrast. It is good to see that Adventurine has finally given up on this game now though and that all the fans will finally get their bubbles busted and realize that their dreams have been ohhh so unrealistic. I honestly can't wait for this. The shit is truly gonna hit the fan. And it will be fun to watch this time around.
- Zaxx
I never really thought we'd see the day when some tool named "Tasos Flambouras" became a religious icon and symbol of so much blind faith. If only people believed in things like "love" and "peace" as much as they do this guy, man.. would we have a better, safer world.
Weren't you one of the people hyping up D&L back in the day? Or is my memory not serving me well?
To the OP, you clearly know very little about the history of the game, or you'd have never made yourself look that naive on purpose.
I think its funny that so many people still point at the development timeframe of several years as "too long". Meanwhile, we have all of these other MMOs launching prematurely after 4-5 year dev timeframes and they are completely broken and f#$ked up. So in those cases people say "ITS NOT READY YET", then in this case when the timeline is longer its "OMFG ITS TOO LONG!!". When you look at the feature list for DF vs some of the other games, it becomes no surprise that they would have a longer dev cycle. Time will tell whether or not they succeeded.
Comments
Wait, what did I miss? Where is this new proof of DF releasing again?
-----
The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
The point is you haters are just changing your story to fit the latest news. Its is not vaporware now that we have a date for beta, so now it will have a bad release. It would be one thing if you haters said that Darkfall is going to be a crap game on release, then you would be fine... But when you say over and over that Darkfall is a hoax, its vaporware, it will never release, then we find out this information and all of you change your arguement to fit it.
Its like saying Well the Detroit Red Wings suck and will never win a playoff game, then after they win there first playoff game, coming back and saying well they will never win a championship. Its pretty much makes your arguement worthless because you cant stick to your guns.
Us so called fanbois have never changed our arguement that Darkfall is real and it will release why should you hates be able to adapt your arguement to fit the current news everytime some news comes along?
Glad the guilds going well... CoS is going well. Mike, your not a troll because you have a different opinion, your a troll because all you are doing is creating a useless arguement based on the information at hand, as that information changes, so does your arguement. That is trolling.
Changing your argument to take into account newfound information is not trolling, it's the smart thing to do in all areas. Or are you suggesting that one should not change one's argument in lieu of new information in order to keep it valid? Debating does not have memory. It doesn't matter if someone was wrong the last 99 times, you can't logically justify simply dismissing their 100th argument based on that history. It's possible they were wrong on the hoax argument (just possible because even though announcements have been made, there's still no beta or game yet) it doesn't make a different argument from them invalid.
Even if you don't agree with their new position, you're not arguing against it, you're arguing against the holders of the position because of their old argument. Argue why the game will be released with all its promised/stated/listed/mentioned/once talked about features.
See that is bullshit, if you can change your arguement everytime new information is released then you can never be wrong..
The naysayers were wrong, the beta will be released in Oct 2008. That made their vaporware/hoax arguement wrong... I have not seen one hater/troll state that fact, now they just changed their story to the game will suck on release.
So what your saying is that as long as they change their arguement to fit the latest news then they were never wrong in the first place? If someone was wrong on their arguement 99 times then got 1 right, guess what they are still wrong most of the time. Logic is simple my friend. Logically they were wrong about the vaporware/hoax arguement, now if they admit they were wrong and then state their new position, I would be fine with that but that is not the case here.
If you can't understand what is wrong with that then their is no reason to keep talking to you.
Where did I say that changing your arguments meant you weren't wrong in the past? Are you reading my posts? If you're wrong, you're wrong, but that doesn't make your next argument wrong as well. I said it doesn't matter how wrong or how many times one person has been wrong in the past, it doesn't make their new arguments invalid. Logic is not statistics or viceversa.
And while probable, do not forget that they haven't yet been proven wrong yet. The only way that argument can be proven wrong is for DF to release commercially.
Instead of dismissing their arguments of the game being unsatisfactory on release by pointing out who they are and how you believe they were wrong on their last argument, argue against the game being unsatisfactory. If you feel you've won the hoax argument, there's no need to bring it up (unless you take pleasure from that, but that's not debating, that's just gloating a bit too soon), and you can't use that as a detractor for their current argument.
If you keep your feelings away from reading the post, you will notice that I am not arguing for either side here. I am just asking you to debate properly and logically.
Did you read my post at all? because I never said that there new arguement would not be valid because their old one was wrong.. what I am saying is that they have not admitted that they were wrong on their last arguement and are now saying that the game will release but it will be shitty.
Do you understand the problem with that? To have a new arguement, you either have to admit you were wrong on the last one or prove you were right.
You cannot just change your last arguement to fit in with the new information. Their first arguement was wrong, NONE of them have even said that, they just choose to pick a new arguement to make them look right again.
Nobody can argue that the game will be unsatisfactory because we have not played the game yet, we do know the game is real and will start a beta in Oct 2008. So the Vaporware/hoax arguement was wrong. Now what state the game is come release is still up in the AIR and nobody can say it will be good or bad yet with any kind of facts.
Do you get it? I dont care about their new debate until we finish the last debate. And after being called a ton of different things because I beleive Darkfall is real, your dam right I get pleasure for rubbing their face in it.
Sooner or Later
Did someone say idle speculation??
I'm betting it will be released by the end of the year, and that it will be a really god game, but you never really know until you play it. My question is, where do the user-submitted screen shots coming from?
probably just copied from the main DF forums screenshot gallery
---sig---
Click this for lulz: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/173737/page/6
Oh I read it. What I read from this one though, is that you're unwilling to consider their new argument until you get some sort of self-served closure on the old one by way of admission of defeat from the so called trolls. So basically you just decided to ignore it, which is, of course, your prerogative. By the way, I must again warn you that you haven't proven them wrong yet. That can't happen until the game releases commercially, regardless of announcements, so you won't hear any admissions of defeat from anyone yet. If you choose to wait for release or cancellation before you argue quality, again that's your prerogative, but trolls have already moved on to that, and you can't dismiss (just ignore, thus not comment on) their arguments by saying you expect them to do anything unrelated to the argument itself before it can be valid.
This is where we disagree. Then again, I'm talking about a strictly logical debate, argument for argument, not debater for debater. Logic can't have memory or be influenced by past results, or it won't be completely objective. Logic isn't based on statistics, or I could logically argue that any given person is chinese. Much like the kid who cried wolf parable, just because someone has been wrong/lying most of the time, you can't logically dismiss their new argument as wrong or invalid. I have no idea what chaos theory has to do with anything we've been talking about, do you really know what it is?
That's actually one more reason the game could fail. No one will pay to play it if it actually does release because of it's gameplay style.
It's basically just like Asheron's Call 1 on the Dark tide server and no one ever used to play there either.. always empty because of it's hardcore style... It drives people away.. doesn't attract them.
Wouldn't it be funny if the game actually launches with everything they say and it ends up failing because of it's style of play?
Either way.. Darkfall will never have a huge population because of how they built it. And that may very well be it's final undoing.
Irony at it's best.
Darkfall does not need a big population. Something along the line of EvE works for me and most other players looking at Darkfall.
Also Darkfall has never been prompted as a WOW killer or the next big MMO. It has always been a niche game and it will always be a niche game... Most people that want to play it are hoping that it is the start of bring the MMO genre back from the "Dark Ages" we are currently in.
For a moment I thought you are the owner or company financing this project. You do not need a big population, you can keep losing money and run a game called darkfall with only 10 subscribers. I am rich enough to pay you $50million and care not about recouping my investment.
Why would an investor develop a game knowing that there will be few followers? They have too much spare money to waste and they need to please the few PVPers who have no other games to play. Oh really? Speechless ...
Oh I read it. What I read from this one though, is that you're unwilling to consider their new argument until you get some sort of self-served closure on the old one by way of admission of defeat from the so called trolls. So basically you just decided to ignore it, which is, of course, your prerogative. By the way, I must again warn you that you haven't proven them wrong yet. That can't happen until the game releases commercially, regardless of announcements, so you won't hear any admissions of defeat from anyone yet. If you choose to wait for release or cancellation before you argue quality, again that's your prerogative, but trolls have already moved on to that, and you can't dismiss (just ignore, thus not comment on) their arguments by saying you expect them to do anything unrelated to the argument itself before it can be valid.
Yes I agree.
Darkfall has proven nothing so far. Announcing a new video is not a proof. Its an annoucement. Defunct companies and dead gov't typically make a lot of announcement down to the moment of its downfall.
Likewise, making a video is not the same thing as making a game, much less a game with so much being promised. So much has been said and so little done over the course of 7 years+. If I can still hold faith in such a soap opera, every fortune teller on earth will come knocking on my door tomorrow.
Oh I read it. What I read from this one though, is that you're unwilling to consider their new argument until you get some sort of self-served closure on the old one by way of admission of defeat from the so called trolls. So basically you just decided to ignore it, which is, of course, your prerogative. By the way, I must again warn you that you haven't proven them wrong yet. That can't happen until the game releases commercially, regardless of announcements, so you won't hear any admissions of defeat from anyone yet. If you choose to wait for release or cancellation before you argue quality, again that's your prerogative, but trolls have already moved on to that, and you can't dismiss (just ignore, thus not comment on) their arguments by saying you expect them to do anything unrelated to the argument itself before it can be valid.
Yes I agree.
Darkfall has proven nothing so far. Announcing a new video is not a proof. Its an annoucement. Defunct companies and dead gov't typically make a lot of announcement down to the moment of its downfall.
Likewise, making a video is not the same thing as making a game, much less a game with so much being promised. So much has been said and so little done over the course of 7 years+. If I can still hold faith in such a soap opera, every fortune teller on earth will come knocking on my door tomorrow.
im just going to smile
Oh I read it. What I read from this one though, is that you're unwilling to consider their new argument until you get some sort of self-served closure on the old one by way of admission of defeat from the so called trolls. So basically you just decided to ignore it, which is, of course, your prerogative. By the way, I must again warn you that you haven't proven them wrong yet. That can't happen until the game releases commercially, regardless of announcements, so you won't hear any admissions of defeat from anyone yet. If you choose to wait for release or cancellation before you argue quality, again that's your prerogative, but trolls have already moved on to that, and you can't dismiss (just ignore, thus not comment on) their arguments by saying you expect them to do anything unrelated to the argument itself before it can be valid.
Yes I agree.
Darkfall has proven nothing so far. Announcing a new video is not a proof. Its an annoucement. Defunct companies and dead gov't typically make a lot of announcement down to the moment of its downfall.
Likewise, making a video is not the same thing as making a game, much less a game with so much being promised. So much has been said and so little done over the course of 7 years+. If I can still hold faith in such a soap opera, every fortune teller on earth will come knocking on my door tomorrow.
Laughing out loud, You SIR ARE aware that the "announced video" is already released?
Here I'll help you out: http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=64217 Go download
and to the good fellow Silvarch, go and look up the term vaporware, since the definition of the term does not fit Darkfall Online, you have been proven wrong. Here I'll help you with a link aswell http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
*****************************
I have nothing clever to say.
Just about every MMO signs with a publisher, including the most successful ones. But yeah you're right(got any kind of facts at all?) they are def just kicking this game out the door after 8 years of development. Why can't they just take their time?!
What game did you play that had an open beta that lasted 4 months?
How are our dreams unrealistic? UO to this date still probalby had the most freedom of any game and it was one of the firsts. Not our fault everyone has fallen into the WoW era and forgot what real MMOs where made of.
www.scarybadguys.com
Just about every MMO signs with a publisher, including the most successful ones. But yeah you're right(got any kind of facts at all?) they are def just kicking this game out the door after 8 years of development. Why can't they just take their time?!
What game did you play that had an open beta that lasted 4 months?
What MMO have you played that was of "average"(not even saying good) quality, that at 4 months from release had 3 videos, NO ONE has played it, and had a Publisher who has never published games?
Oh I read it. What I read from this one though, is that you're unwilling to consider their new argument until you get some sort of self-served closure on the old one by way of admission of defeat from the so called trolls. So basically you just decided to ignore it, which is, of course, your prerogative. By the way, I must again warn you that you haven't proven them wrong yet. That can't happen until the game releases commercially, regardless of announcements, so you won't hear any admissions of defeat from anyone yet. If you choose to wait for release or cancellation before you argue quality, again that's your prerogative, but trolls have already moved on to that, and you can't dismiss (just ignore, thus not comment on) their arguments by saying you expect them to do anything unrelated to the argument itself before it can be valid.
Yes I agree.
Darkfall has proven nothing so far. Announcing a new video is not a proof. Its an annoucement. Defunct companies and dead gov't typically make a lot of announcement down to the moment of its downfall.
Likewise, making a video is not the same thing as making a game, much less a game with so much being promised. So much has been said and so little done over the course of 7 years+. If I can still hold faith in such a soap opera, every fortune teller on earth will come knocking on my door tomorrow.
Laughing out loud, You SIR ARE aware that the "announced video" is already released?
Here I'll help you out: http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=64217 Go download
and to the good fellow Silvarch, go and look up the term vaporware, since the definition of the term does not fit Darkfall Online, you have been proven wrong. Here I'll help you with a link aswell http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
Dear nileq, it seems you are misunderstanding a lot of things. Am I part of the group that has been said to have been proven wrong? No. Do I believe they have a game? Yes, I always have. Do I believe it's vaporware in spite, or even because of what's been said about it? Yes. Although my last two answers may seem mutually exclusive, they're not, and I will use the article you so kindly provided (apparently without reading it) to demonstrate how it is so.
Do see the types section of the vaporware article that you linked? Especifically the "obsolete on delivery", "overambitious hype" and especially the "falling short of expectations" types of vaporware? Darkfall has yet to prove it isn't either of those. So you see, even if/when it does release it could still end up being vaporware by the very definition you heralded. If you want to be anal, it hasn't yet released, so it hasn't proved it's not vaporware (the existential kind) at all, but since I actually do believe they have a game, I won't argue that.
So as you see, no one has been proven wrong yet, except for those who said the video wouldn't be released on August or at all. Only once the beta is playable then those who said or thought the game did exist will have been proven wrong. Only once the game releases, those who said or thought it wouldn't release would be wrong. Only once the game proves to be of great quality and everything people expected and have everything it was claimed to have then those who think otherwise would be wrong. Until then their guesses are as valid (if not equally probable) as yours.
i guess every single mmorpg since uo/ac-dt was vaporware then, since they certainly didnt live up to my expectations.
Khael[SUN]
SUN - peekayin since pong
Webdeveloper on:
http://www.guildofsun.com
http://www.bloodmonarchy.com
I love how they say that they took waaaay to long to develop this game, then all the sudden it is they are kicking this game out the door, so what is it, they are taking to long, or releasing to soon, I am so confused.
ohhh yeah! I'm soooo nervous that the game will succeed and be so great! I'd hate to have a game like Darkfall promises to be available for me to play! ROTF.
Not nervous at all buddy. I hope like hell I am wrong and all you fans are right.
But I'm not wrong. The shit's gonna hit the fan BIGTIME, and this time, with this game... I'm not gonna be one of the sad little faces disappointed and shattered. I'm gonna kick back and watch it all as a big comedy and self entertainment.
Again, trust me... I hope that I am wrong - And in the tiny sliver of chances that I am, I will be the first one here admitting to such. And then I'll be logging back into the game moments later! lol.
- Zaxx
Well given that Funcom got away with this sorta behavior without a class action lawsuit filed against them, I would say you might just be right Zaxx. Maybe it will be crap and rushed to GOLD before its ready.
On the other hand I could give a crap, because I play ryzom with beer when I get home every night. So until I can get a free trial of ANY GAME, I wont be preordering ANYTHING.
-Lum
Originally posted by Orthedos
So the rest of the people here can argue and talk and argue and talk. But no one can disprove anyone b/c no one can prove anything.
Very true.
But one way or another, we only have a few more months to wait.
if this releases with full loot, skills, and working merchants, well, hell i'll pay2beta it. i've done that for lesser games. i'm not going to point the finger and say "unfinished", because Shadowbane was (and still is) the most unfinished MMO ever, and it's probably my favorite
if it's vaporware, then fuck them, but i'll admit i was a little impressed by that vid. they didn't hide the shortcomings, and really they even used them to a degree, in a kinda campy Shadowbane way. that made me happy. also, music aside, this is a game video done right (music is just a personal gripe, and i can easily fix that by pressing play on my winamp). obv it's all staged, but it didn't look or feel "on-rails"
if the infrastructure- the barebones even- to support all of the things featured in the video, even minimally, exists in the release, i'll buy it. and everyone who loves PVP should too, because you're not going to get anything else in the near future
Jesus Christ was a good guy. he may or may not have been the savior. is the PVP community really in the position to crucify the good guy, just because he might not be the son of God? last time i checked, this year's MMO prospects include Warhammer Online and some more asian grindfests. hate to do a 180, but if DF comes, i'm all up innit
What he said.
Darkfall has been in development for 7 years
How is it being rushed?
Oh I read it. What I read from this one though, is that you're unwilling to consider their new argument until you get some sort of self-served closure on the old one by way of admission of defeat from the so called trolls. So basically you just decided to ignore it, which is, of course, your prerogative. By the way, I must again warn you that you haven't proven them wrong yet. That can't happen until the game releases commercially, regardless of announcements, so you won't hear any admissions of defeat from anyone yet. If you choose to wait for release or cancellation before you argue quality, again that's your prerogative, but trolls have already moved on to that, and you can't dismiss (just ignore, thus not comment on) their arguments by saying you expect them to do anything unrelated to the argument itself before it can be valid.
Yes I agree.
Darkfall has proven nothing so far. Announcing a new video is not a proof. Its an annoucement. Defunct companies and dead gov't typically make a lot of announcement down to the moment of its downfall.
Likewise, making a video is not the same thing as making a game, much less a game with so much being promised. So much has been said and so little done over the course of 7 years+. If I can still hold faith in such a soap opera, every fortune teller on earth will come knocking on my door tomorrow.
Laughing out loud, You SIR ARE aware that the "announced video" is already released?
Here I'll help you out: http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=64217 Go download
and to the good fellow Silvarch, go and look up the term vaporware, since the definition of the term does not fit Darkfall Online, you have been proven wrong. Here I'll help you with a link aswell http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
Dear nileq, it seems you are misunderstanding a lot of things. Am I part of the group that has been said to have been proven wrong? No. Do I believe they have a game? Yes, I always have. Do I believe it's vaporware in spite, or even because of what's been said about it? Yes. Although my last two answers may seem mutually exclusive, they're not, and I will use the article you so kindly provided (apparently without reading it) to demonstrate how it is so.
Do see the types section of the vaporware article that you linked? Especifically the "obsolete on delivery", "overambitious hype" and especially the "falling short of expectations" types of vaporware? Darkfall has yet to prove it isn't either of those. So you see, even if/when it does release it could still end up being vaporware by the very definition you heralded. If you want to be anal, it hasn't yet released, so it hasn't proved it's not vaporware (the existential kind) at all, but since I actually do believe they have a game, I won't argue that.
So as you see, no one has been proven wrong yet, except for those who said the video wouldn't be released on August or at all. Only once the beta is playable then those who said or thought the game did exist will have been proven wrong. Only once the game releases, those who said or thought it wouldn't release would be wrong. Only once the game proves to be of great quality and everything people expected and have everything it was claimed to have then those who think otherwise would be wrong. Until then their guesses are as valid (if not equally probable) as yours.
Well as you yourself state in your reply :
-"Darkfall has yet to prove it isn't either of those"
-" it could still end up being vaporware"
-"If you want to be anal, it hasn't yet released, so it hasn't proved it's not vaporware " <<-- Well this is my point. You say you have the right to lable it Vapourware, on the grounds that you havent played it yet..
Well there are to ways a vapourware product can end up:
1. Cancelled and not delivered at all.
2. Delivered in a bad state, not delivering on almost anything that was promised.
Since it has yet to be cancelled, and you SIR have yet to play it, you CANNOT label it Vapourware.
I could go on and make references to alot of games (all that as of today is announced and not yet gone gold) including WAR (games has been cancelled in beta before). And by your logic lable them all Vapourware, but that has been done to death in these forums.
It is quite simple really.
*****************************
I have nothing clever to say.
Weren't you one of the people hyping up D&L back in the day? Or is my memory not serving me well?
To the OP, you clearly know very little about the history of the game, or you'd have never made yourself look that naive on purpose.
I think its funny that so many people still point at the development timeframe of several years as "too long". Meanwhile, we have all of these other MMOs launching prematurely after 4-5 year dev timeframes and they are completely broken and f#$ked up. So in those cases people say "ITS NOT READY YET", then in this case when the timeline is longer its "OMFG ITS TOO LONG!!".
When you look at the feature list for DF vs some of the other games, it becomes no surprise that they would have a longer dev cycle. Time will tell whether or not they succeeded.
{{e10{{e10
