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PvP in EQ2 as an Expansion?
aeric67
Member UncommonPosts: 798
in Everquest II
I had this epiphany that is probably obvious to others, but the whole good/evil backdrop in EQ2 is setting itself up to be a huge opportunity for PvP. I could see an expansion in the works down the road.
The framework for PvP is already there:
- All races can be any class, so no side has a disadvantage of class omission
- Classes are balanced from an archetype standpoint, which simplifies PvP balancing
- Opposing cities with lore that emphasizes conflict
- Player can only choose one city or the other, with a quest needed to change sides
Some of the items above are almost pointless to have unless they add PvP at some juncture. I can imagine an expansion ala City of Villians. Make the PvE well fleshed out, then add PvP later. Thoughts?
Comments
From what I read on the official site, is that they are not dealing with PvP at all atm...and have never come out and commited to it ever being included. There have been many hot debates on the subject actually on the forums of several sites.
So...if someone were definately wanting a game with PvP in it, then EQ2 might not be the one to set their hopes up on, lest they get discouraged later on. IMO
Maybe later...maybe not.
If it's not a big deal either way...go for it. I am ...the game looks very cool to me!
Regards,
RA
ps - I would "enjoy" PvP in activities such as duels (both parties consenting) or known PvP areas where you would knowingly take your chances. But not Open PvP...because from my experience it turns into nothing but Higher lvl characters "griefing" the lower lvl (new players most of the time) and not honerable PvP but PKing (player Killing) IMO
Guess we'll just have to see what happens in the long run. I just wouldn't buy EQ2 just on the hope that PvP will be included...sometime in the future.
"It'll be dark soon."
"Aye...that it will."
Yes me too. I will play with PvP or not. Normally, though, I prefer very little PvP since that usually means that the PvE content is shortchanged, but if they add it later that wouldn't be the case (at least for the initial content).
It remains to be seen, but one cannot help but think those items I listed and others I didn't list are there for a reason that isn't obvious now. PvP seems plausible or perhaps RvR... or something totally different.
I appreciate your topic and your ideas! Thanks for the post!
RA
"It'll be dark soon."
"Aye...that it will."
This is somewhat true. Yes, any race and can be any class. But, one cannot be say, a Dark Elf Warden living in Freeport. Some classes are Qeynos (good) only, some are Freeport (evil) only, and there are some neutral classes that will be available to both cities.
-Loc
This is somewhat true. Yes, any race and can be any class. But, one cannot be say, a Dark Elf Warden living in Freeport. Some classes are Qeynos (good) only, some are Freeport (evil) only, and there are some neutral classes that will be available to both cities.
The Dark Elf can be a Fury instead. I guess I should have been more specific, but the point was that no side is lacking relative class capacity, which is conducive to PvP.
This makes a lot of sense.
One cannot help but wonder if there was some solid planning in from the start with the whole good vs. evil emphasis. They could have easily had a great PvE game with two starting locations that didn't emphasis this--just a starting location and that's it. The fact that one is good and one is evil, and that you can't go into the opposite one without a betrayal, suggests some sort of PvP later. Whether it's a special-rules server or added to the whole game, who knows. Knowing Sony, it will probably be a server thing.
I guess in EQ1, there were good and evil cities, but here it is just too obvious. Too hard to overlook the "why".
I've never designed a published game, but I can imagine the complexities of doing both PvE and PvP. I might even argue that they are mutually exclusive in most cases.
But don't get me wrong. I don't want or need to have PvP in EQ2. I never played it in EQ1 until--just as you said--I was getting bored with the game.
EQ2 is for carebears, case closed
--
Best to Worst list of MMOs :
Bought : AO, EVE, PS, Lineage II, Lineage, Neocron, StarPeace, Horizons, DAOC
Tried : WoW, Guild Wars, EQ2, Ryzom, SWG, AC2, E&B, RO, The Sims Online, EQ, Shadowbane
--
Best to Worst list of MMOs :
Bought : AO, EVE, PS, Lineage II, Lineage, Neocron, StarPeace, Horizons, DAOC
Tried : WoW, Guild Wars, EQ2, Ryzom, CoH, SWG, AC2, E&B, RO, The Sims Online, EQ, Shadowbane
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Control is an illusion!
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Control is an illusion!
Wow, where to begin....I will try to keep my opinion short (as I want to say SO much).
1) PvP is not just for griefers. Its an easy tool for greifers to use. But if someone wants to annoy someone else in a game, they don't need PvP to do it. There are MANY other ways. Luckily, one easy solution. LOG OUT and come on with a different character. Then go back after a little while.
2) PvP is a balancing nightmare; but, to say it has NO place in ANY PvE game? That is a generalist statement that is wholly inacurate. I enjoy PvE tremendously, and I spend most of my time in PvE endevours in the games I play. However, that being said, I have done alot of PvP in my day. It was never my intention to cause people grief, or to "lord" over anyone. I did it as a change of pace still playing the game and the character that I want to play. And the excitement is a different type. You never know what strategies another player might come up with. And in some games, PvP can add even more to the lore of the game. EQ2 has tremendous potential for PvP to expand its lore.
3) PvP is not needed in EQ2. Correct! Its not! And I think forcing people to do it would be a mistake. But I seriously don't see SOE doing that. They didnt in EQ1 or SWG. It was always optional. However, depending on the rule structure, if they create a PvP server, I would more than likely play there. If they give the PvP activity actual impact on the lore (such as: the tides of war, good vs evil) then it can give players an even greater feel of impacting the world.
4) PvPers are all little kids who should go play WoW? Hmmm, thats a statement I would expect from a bigot. How little understanding or openmindedness does that show. I am not a little kid, I don't want to grief anyone, nor do I want to play WoW. I am a PvPer and I do want to play EQ2. PvP is not a deal breaker for me, I will play regardless. But I would like the option.
There's more I would like to say, but its already too long. And I think I hear my boss coming down the hallway!
I sincerely hope I didn't offend anyone. I just don't like to hear PvPers always getting such a bad beating on their reputations. I have known many quality PvPers who were also great PvEers.
Everything born must die. All that is, will come to ruin. This is the essence of Doom. So sayeth the Doomsayer.
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Everything born must die. All that is, will come to ruin. This is the essence of Doom. So sayeth the Doomsayer.
Nicely put Doomsayer!!! Just a few things I want to add:
News flash Rhoklaw. Have you not seen the polls on this site? Nearly 40% of players say PVP is the best part of a MMORPG while only 25% hate it. Obviously you don't have common sense. Hmm. 40% of the MMORPG community won't play or even try EQ2 because there isn't any PVP. Which is why most of the people who left EQ2 because of no PVP will go to WoW. Knowing SOE and their love for money will say, "Hmmm were missing out on a huge part of the MMORPG community which would otherwise play our game." And if you don't like PVP quit your flaming. They have baby bluebie servers on EQ for you guys. For the rest of us (40% that love PVP +35% of players that don't mind PVP) will join the EQ2 servers that do have PVP. I'm only flaming back at those who complain about PVP. There's gonna be servers for PVP and non-PVP like EQ1. GUARANTEED. I don't care what you think about EQ2 developers saying that PVP isn't even on their discussion table. Just like in EQ1, they will put PVP in once they get PVE settled. Not at launch but they will eventually whether it be a couples months, a year, or longer.
Well, if they do put it in, there certainly isn't much of a better foundation to start from. If I didn't already know better, I'd have assumed PvP was a big part of EQ2 from the marketing imagery alone.
As far as the compelling number of people who demand PvP, I think you are overstating that sentiment. Just because people "don't mind" PvP, doesn't mean they will play on a PvP server. I would actually fall into that group, but I "don't mind" that EQ2 will not have PvP at launch either. Also, since the polls didn't expound on that 40% (or whatever) that love PvP, you don't know how many of those love PvP and those that love PvP and will not play a game without it.
Either way, it's nitpicking. EQ2 as it stands will have a grand following for damn sure. So will WoW. I just love having the choice!
Really a moot point this whole thread, SOE has never succeeded at PVP/PVE together. You just have to look at EQ and SWG to see that. So they're sticking with PVE which is easier to balance without having to worry about PVP, good choice IMO.
Once again, you make an outrageous statement about PvPers.
80% of PvPers are griefers and cheaters? Where do you get that? That's an insane statement, and I don't want to make any assumptions, but it sounds like a statement made by someone who has suffered in the PvP side of games. I NEVER cheated...never had any mod programs running to help me, hell, I never even use a BOT. And sometimes I would whipe the floor with someone and they would cry out, he MUST be cheating!
Just because someone has handed you your ass, doesn't mean they are cheating. I know people do cheat, and alot of times its in regard to PvP, but I have even seen PvEer cheat. The truth is, that some people will do whatever they can to get an advantage.
As for griefers, I said this before, PvP is not a requirement for that. Yes, I have known griefers in PvP but not to any larger degree than in PvE, with KSers, tellspammers, etc.
One last suggestion, what kind of PvPers your game has playing has alot to do with how the PvP is implemented in the game. In Shadowbane, yes...greifers o'plenty in the PvP. DAoC not too much, the RvR frontier was so large, and the realms so populated, that it was hard for people to grief well. I mean, battles were fast and furious, and squad/army based. So too many people fighting at once cut down on how well someone could concentrate their griefing behavior on 1 specific target.
In short, there are probably more griefers/cheaters that are PvPers than those that are just PvEers. However, they exist on both sides, and the number of PvPers that are cheaters/greifers is NOWHERE near 80%. There is no conclusive way anyone could figure out what the percentage was anyway. And I am sure, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that it much lower than that.
Everything born must die. All that is, will come to ruin. This is the essence of Doom. So sayeth the Doomsayer.
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Everything born must die. All that is, will come to ruin. This is the essence of Doom. So sayeth the Doomsayer.
What will he do next?