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Please, before anyone says that this topic has been done before, etc, this is a forum and the point of it is for discussion, not for me to click on a search engine and do research.
I know there have been a lot of theological conversations on this site, but I have yet to get an answer to a question that has been bothering me for some time now.
What with the exciting experiment to find the Higs particle about to happen in Cern, then I thought there was no better time to ask this question. You see, I was brought up in a catholic family, and went to a strict catholic school. For all of the church's attempts to indoctrinate me, I always felt as though something was not right. So even as a kid, the poor logic of the Christian faith did not add up to me. As an adult I began to get interested in Cosmology, and I have always wondered what is out there, and if there is a higher power.
Now please bear in mind that I have no agenda. I can honestly say that I am envious of people who have religion in their lives. It may be that they are misguided and deluded, but with this delusion they have the comfort of thinking that there is a God, and that when they die they will go to Heaven. They seem happy and content, and I truly wish that I could believe in religion, but there are just so many inaccuracies. The most glaring, and inaccurate piece of the Chrstian faith, is the actual 'keystone', that being The Bible. It is because of this that I cannot accept the religion I was brought up in.
Now in this day and age I am aghast at the level of sub-standard intelligence in our society, where people can believe in the beliefs of Creationism. People who really belive the world is only several thousand years old!
I expect anyone who has any level of intelligence and understanding to accept that The Big Bang as it was coined, is now an excepted fact of scientific knowledge. Yes it began as a theory, but no scientist worth his salt would denounce it today.
So the teachings of The Bible most be wrong. There was no Adam and Eve. There was no Noah and his arc. In fact most of the Old Testament is inaccurate.
My question is simple, and one I truly hope somebody can answer to my satisfaction.
If I do not believe in Adam and Eve, and I do not believe in a lot of the things in the Old Testament, can I still be a practicing Christian, and if I can, how so without me being a hypocrite?
Please do not take any offence from what I have written, as none is meant. I respect everyone's right to believe in what they want. My sole agenda is that I am at a point in my life when I am trying to make sense of life and everything to do with it. I am currently an Agnostic, as I do not know what to believe! Yes, I think there might be a God but I do not think that it is the same one as in The Bible. Yes, I think there really was a man called Jesus Christ, and that he really did believe he was the Son of God, but no, I don't think he actually was. I think that the Bible was written in a time when all of the things written in The Bible were easily accepted by people, as it pre-dates modern science and the level of man's understanding. Now in more enlightened times, I cannot see how The Bible can be accepted as factual.
I know I have waffled on for a lot, and I am only really looking for an answer to that above question, without any side-tracking. Please stick to the question posed. The question being;
If I do not believe in Adam and Eve, and I do not believe in a lot of the things in the Old Testament, can I still be a practicing Christian, and if I can, how so without me being a hypocrite?
Thanks in advance for anyone who replies.
Comments
I think you probably could be. You'd just have to be one of those Christians who doesn't interpret the Bible in a literal way.
But I can't give a long winded answer because although my parents were nominally Christians they never talked about it or went to church so I grew up in a religious vacuum. I'm basically agnostic myself.
Yes, you can be Christian, you just cannot be Jewish.
The Old Testament is out, the New Testament is in. Forget Adam and Eve, Noah, Moses, and the Ten Commandments, they're all horsepucky.
All you need to know is that Jesus died for your sins, and that you will be admitted to heaven based on belief, not actions.
"God gave us reason, not religion."
I got an idea.
Get in a quiet place, close your eyes and ask God to reveal himself to you. No, I don't think the clouds will part and a finger from heaven will touch you, but you might just get some inner peace and an idea of what the difference between MAN's religion and a relationship with God is.
ALL religion is made by mere men. worthless in every area.
Faith, relationship, love...these things matter much more.
I do believe in the big bang. God said let there be light and "BANG" the universe started.
There are Christians, such as myself and many others, that take a more OLD earth view and it doesn't really contradict scripture if you take time to examine the words.
here's a link with some interesting articles...
http://www.reasons.org/ These folks have been around a long time. Just about EVERY topic in there u can imagine, including the ones you asked about.
Ignore the supernatural stuff (to include all the afterlife nonsense), and all the stuff in the Bible to explain how the world came to be.
Understand that much of it is allegory, not to be taken literally. This requires some examination, meditation, and thinking.
Concentrate on the teachings of the Torah and of Jesus, as you would those of the Buddah.
Concentrate on the teachings of how to interact with others and lead a righteous and happy life.
There's a lot of good stuff in there but it's drowned out by all the supernatural horseshit.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
My professor once said that Earth was created by accident and so was religion. If certain things never happened then we would not be here right now, so it is hard to believe in something when the evidence is there. This is not a debate by me and to show all the evidence why we are here by accident because it would cause to many of you to . I believe in something like others but my supreme being doesn't exist in a Bible and has stupid stories. Think about the LHC Cern tests coming up, we can end all life on earth. The possibility is there.
I think we are all God because we can make life and take it. At anytime you can go up to someone and take their life, we can make life also at anytime but that takes 9 months to deliver the finished package. For me just thinking about that since I was taught religion when I was younger does not add up for me. But I still believe in a creator of something, just not some old book that says believe this and that. Besides the Bible was made I believe and my professor for a reason to keep people in line. So that people can be governed easier and make peaceful judgment calls.
We are advanced beings, we can think and talk, therefore; it is reasonable to suggest that we would look to reasons why we exist. I doubt other animals not human are praying and looking for why they exist. All I know is if you believe in something then do it, but don't let others say you can't unless you believe in a stories told by great authors of the Bible.
You can still keep your faith, just take out the nonesense and your fine.
If I offended anyone here please let me know so I can delete my message.
Who let you in the VIP section?
Mind you one needs to keep a open mind. Much of the early stuff people claim is false, or true is simply not understood by our limited and varying opinions of science. Be sure, there is more then one scientific opinion of whats fact. I keep a open mind and believe that essentially large hunks of the early bible are quite literal. Just from the point of perspective we cant perhaps ever understand. That shouldn't deter you from exploring your spiritual beliefs. Explore, learn and read. Eventually youll come to YOUR conclusion. Eventually youll be somewhat satisfied.
Frankly I've been in a bit of a running argument with God for the last three years. One I've been losing all to often. Yet he always seems to keep me on this odd but enjoyable course*Shrugs* Enjoy your religion, the alternative makes the prospect of gehena*Death* Seem pleasurable.
The only thing I can add is that the Bible is not complete. The Bible you read and know today has been changed with varying books. The church (meaning the Roman Catholic Church) canonized the current Bible to fit their agenda. There were previous canonized versions which contained differing books, some of which are not included in the current version because they are to conflicting with the church's interests.
One book that used to be in the Torah (the Old Testament) described Lilith, the first woman. Eve was second. It's a very interesting read. Why did they not include it? Because Lilith was created from the earth as Adam and was equal, not dependent upon him for life as Eve.
My take on this is (and you might have heard of it in the past, I don't really know) is that it's ultimately about the faith more than the religion. For the latter, there's always the danger of following the "rules" and the structures without really knowing what the story behind it is. The heart of Christianity lies really in the heart of people - if they want to commit their lives to God, then so be it. It's not about the traditions they follow or the food that they eat in the end.
_ASD
Follow the golden rule and you can't go wrong.
So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets
Do to others as you would have them do to you.
newearth.org/frontier/grmain.html interesting article concerning the Golden rule
Going to use a couple qutoes from another thread I just used a little while ago.
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God;
because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason,
than that of blind-folded fear...
Do not be frightened from this inquiry
from any fear of its consequences.
If it ends in the belief that there is no God,
you will find incitements to virtue
in the comfort and pleasantness you feel in its exercise..." -Thomas Jefferson
"[My views on Christianity] are the result of a life of inquiry & reflection, and very different from that anti-Christian system imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. To the corruptions of Christianity I am indeed opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human excellence; & believing he never claimed any other." -Thomas Jefferson
^ his thoughs of the Catholic Church of the time and why he strongly beleived that church (not religon, or God, organized Church) and state should be seperate. Two fold, keep the Church out of the state and to keep the state out of the church.
btw, you do know the father of the Big Bang Theroy was a Catholic Priest right? Father Georges Lemaître, Einstien called him a fool. The universe comming from one atom in all... created
I've said this before, and I'll say it again. Christianity, true Christianity, is not about following any books or rules. It's about living your life with compassion, with nonviolence, supporting those that need help, but not judging those who have done wrong. Christianity is following the teachings of Jesus. Christianity is not about forcing people to accept Jesus, as you know as a raised catholic, the only requirements for getting into heaven are living a good and righteous life. Christianity believes that Jesus was sent by some force, to bring a message to the people of Earth, a message of peace and tolerance. And that because he was trusted by this force to bring such an important message, he is the messiah. If you have read the bible cover to cover, go to church every week, but do not embrace and live by the teachings of Jesus, then you are not a Christian. But as long as you live by those teachings, even if you have never read the bible, even if you never go to church, you can still be a good Christian.
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"Capitalism is currently working as intended."
No man can tell you how to conduct your relationship with god. Men and women must find their own truth's and follow accordingly. There are many ways to be a Christian and to find salvation; continue to search your own thoughts and convictions, this is where the truth lies.
It's all nonsense, you dont need religion to be a good person, you dont need to believe in god too have a moral compus.
You just need to know that the bible is a fairy tale, used to govern early man. The way the bible and other religious belief is used as a crutch in todays society is getting out of hand, especially since the bible contradicts itself at every turn.
All you need to do is, believe whoever the story of jesus was based off of is a good when, he has some good views, but dont take it to that finatical level. Just know the difference between right and wrong and do teh rest for yourself.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
"The Bible is wrong, so can I be a Christian"
Well if having a religious tag hung around your neck is so important, you can be whatever you want.
My question would be this, if you don't basically believe the Bible is "right" (faith / belief) why do you want to be Christian (or any of its divergent forms)?
What do you think is right?
Religion is a man made thing, join whatever "club" you like best. None of them have anything to do with God or spirituality. Its just different groups arguing about who's version / interpretation of a book (that people wrote) is correct. Muslim / Judeism / Christianity all derive from the Old Testament. It's all the same damn base thing.
But if you want a religious tag to wear you can call yourself whatever you like, go buy a little sysmbol to dangle from your neck do whatever rituals they require you to do and shazam, you are in the club.
If it brings you comfort then go for it. However its not going to answer your questions about God, life the universe and everything.
So basically, all of the people who answered who were religious said that it was not important if The Bible was accurate! Or some said that it was allegory and not meant to be taken literally, which by the way is wrong, the whole point of Jesus' life is that he died on the cross to save us from the sin committed by Adam and Eve. The Bible IS meant to be taken literally, and that is my problem with it.
Probably the most important choice you can make is to accept (or not) a religion. How on Earth am I supposed to surrender all rational thoughts I have and accept a faith, whose own members say that it is not important that their core (being The Bible) is not accurate!
I'm sorry but the more and more I ask people about this subject, the more convinved I am that it is all a load of garbage!
To put it simply, religion is politics. You must choose which you wish to be associated with based upon the teachings and dogma of that particular religion.
I suggest you research Deism. In short, Deists believe there is a God, but God does not meddle in the affairs of human life. The mantra of Deists is "God gave us reason, not religion".
You cannot read a religious book without also learning the history of when it was written. The Bible was plagiarized from various sources as was the Quran. The 10 commandments (which was actually a lot more than 10) were picked from the Code of Hammurabi. The story of Noah was based upon the Epic of Gilgamesh.
Believe what you want, but do not settle and do not believe simply because someone claims to be a religious teacher. That does not make them right.