NotArkardLord of the Rings Online CorrespondentMemberPosts: 164
Why do people insist on waiting it out until higher levels to see how awesome the game is? Obviously, the lower levels are the ones that should be targetted to keep the player interested, there's no reason for someone who is growing bored at level 5 to stick it out to level 5,000 so they can begin to experience the glorious world you're describing. Chances are, if you don't like the game as a lowbie, you're not going to like it in the later levels. Conversely, if you do stick around and force yourself to play until that "meaningful tier/level" and you end up not liking the content at that point, then you're going to hate yourself, and hate the game; you'll turn into one of those people with a personal vendetta for a game, and nobody likes those guys.
It sounds like the strongest point this game has, from what I read of the posts here is that it's simplistic PvP. It's just a war? Big deal. There are no stun mechanics? So someone getting hit with the hilt of your sword will shake it off as if he was made of steel himself? Someone getting hit with a mace or a flail to the head will apparently walk it off in the world of WAR. Don't they have pistols in the game, too? Now, I don't claim to be an expert, nor have I ever been shot, but I imagine the force of the blow would cause you to stagger at least.
"For example, it took WoW months to implement battlegrounds, which serve no real purpose other than getting you better gear. WAR has them right from the start, and they benefit everyone -- you personally, your guild, and your whole faction."
How is this argument even relevant? I don't play WoW anymore, but I have played it since the old days and only stopped about a year ago. WoW is a game that is centered around gear, and so it makes sense that by PvPing, you obtain... [i]better gear[/i]. WAR is a game centered around faction play, and so it makes sense that by PvPing you...well, you see where I'm going with this, right?
That argument in no way proves WAR has anything more than WoW did at launch, since the argument can be used that WoW had gear, in the same way WAR will have PvP at launch, the two things the two game are based around. See how little sense that makes?
I have played DAoC, so I should like WAR. I think. I'm still not convinced, though. It sounds like the best argument this game has is that it's made by the same guys that made DAoC. That's about it. I liked DAoC just because it was DAoC, though, not because it was WAR. I'm certainly not going to like WAR because it tries to be like DAoC, because it DOES NOT. It tries to be like WoW, and I've had enough of that for a while.
The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.
Lol, you re impossible i answered all you need above. MYTHIC DOESN T WANT A CC CENTRIC GAME. They ve said many times why go find out for yourself why and how many people are responding that it s a good thing. You re little opinion on this matter probably doesn t effect Mythics thoughts on this matter one bit.
No you didn't answer. You dodge the question.
Every time I am asking for a very specific answer why CC is bad, there is no answer. Except for the guy who gave a very good answer in the blocking thing, but all the rest is "hype" and "believe".
Lesser possibilites for CC in a PvP fight is less. Nothing more.
I just wanted to hear that. Less is less not more.
-----------------------------------------------
Next : RvR: what is it ? Again "less for more" theory. : some "high objective far surpassing other games".
Let's analyse....
Black against white, Good versus Evil, Chaos against Order, Red against Blue.
RvR and pride primes everything - even personal gear; Ok?
But in this case Stratego is the ultimate RvR game isn't it ?
Catch the final capitol. And then what ? --- ?
Recatch it ? What's the catch of recatching it? Re-recatching it?
Here is the heart of RvR and why it won't hold intrest for long in MMORPG's. Add the massive CC lacking zerg fests and why would a player play after 3 months catching the recatched capitol?
AoC died of this very poor end game "catch the castle thing" and WAR offers indeed less than less.
The only long term motivation in an MMORPG is the avatar (players) build. Nothing more .... nothing less.
Lol, you re impossible i answered all you need above. MYTHIC DOESN T WANT A CC CENTRIC GAME. They ve said many times why go find out for yourself why and how many people are responding that it s a good thing. You re little opinion on this matter probably doesn t effect Mythics thoughts on this matter one bit.
No you didn't answer. You dodge the question. Every time I am asking for a very specific answer why CC is bad, there is no answer. Except for the guy who gave a very good answer in the blocking thing, but all the rest is "hype" and "believe". Lesser possibilites for CC in a PvP fight is less. Nothing more. I just wanted to hear that. Less is less not more. ----------------------------------------------- Next : RvR: what is it ? Again "less for more" theory. : some "high objective far surpassing other games". Let's analyse.... Black against white, Good versus Evil, Chaos against Order, Red against Blue. RvR and pride primes everything - even personal gear; Ok? But in this case Stratego is the ultimate RvR game isn't it ? Catch the final capitol. And then what ? --- ? Recatch it ? What's the catch of recatching it? Re-recatching it? Here is the heart of RvR and why it won't hold intrest for long in MMORPG's. Add the massive CC lacking zerg fests and why would a player play after 3 months catching the recatched capitol? AoC died of this very poor end game "catch the castle thing" and WAR offers indeed less than less. The only long term motivation in an MMORPG is the avatar (players) build. Nothing more .... nothing less.
DAOC was popular much longer than 3 months...
I played WoW off and on for 4 years and I almost never did a PvE raid. Generally I would level to max, get bored and quit and restart a new character. That is how I assume I'll play WAR as well. An endless gear chase(raids/arena) or AA grind(EQ) is not really an end game motivation for me, it is just boring.
Why do people insist on waiting it out until higher levels to see how awesome the game is? Obviously, the lower levels are the ones that should be targetted to keep the player interested, there's no reason for someone who is growing bored at level 5 to stick it out to level 5,000 so they can begin to experience the glorious world you're describing.
Um, Age of Conan did exactly what you're asking for. Once people found out that the beginning of the game was the best part, they left.
WoW also did what you're asking for. Yep, people stuck around. And now they're bored to tears because they've gotten to the end game and found that there's no depth.
WAR is giving you the end game from the very start. But it's a scaled down version. As you advance your character, more and more options open up. This makes the game increasingly compelling.
Do I think that the start of the game could be better? Yes. Do I think that it's bad of them to have a game that shows more depth the farther you go? Not at all.
Lol, you re impossible i answered all you need above. MYTHIC DOESN T WANT A CC CENTRIC GAME. They ve said many times why go find out for yourself why and how many people are responding that it s a good thing. You re little opinion on this matter probably doesn t effect Mythics thoughts on this matter one bit.
No you didn't answer. You dodge the question.
Every time I am asking for a very specific answer why CC is bad, there is no answer. Except for the guy who gave a very good answer in the blocking thing, but all the rest is "hype" and "believe".
Lesser possibilites for CC in a PvP fight is less. Nothing more.
I just wanted to hear that. Less is less not more.
-----------------------------------------------
Next : RvR: what is it ? Again "less for more" theory. : some "high objective far surpassing other games".
Let's analyse....
Black against white, Good versus Evil, Chaos against Order, Red against Blue.
RvR and pride primes everything - even personal gear; Ok?
But in this case Stratego is the ultimate RvR game isn't it ?
Catch the final capitol. And then what ? --- ?
Recatch it ? What's the catch of recatching it? Re-recatching it?
Here is the heart of RvR and why it won't hold intrest for long in MMORPG's. Add the massive CC lacking zerg fests and why would a player play after 3 months catching the recatched capitol?
AoC died of this very poor end game "catch the castle thing" and WAR offers indeed less than less.
The only long term motivation in an MMORPG is the avatar (players) build. Nothing more .... nothing less.
He is just trolling for fun , making up stuff to ask so it looks like he is doing something other than trolling , he is just leveling up his forum troll skills, let him be .
There is nothing less about WaR only more , again go play/troll another game this one isnt for you mr OMG i cant play without cc , how is it fun ? its not fun geting cc'd , and its not fun killing someone you have cc'd. Its not lacking cc and its not a zerg , get you fact straight before an attempted trolling . AoC sieging died becouse it never worked , and only got worse with every patch.
The only long term motivation in an MMORPG is the avatar (players) build. Nothing more .... nothing less.
Wrong. It's the only one you're used to seeing. There's a difference.
Age of Conan proved that groups can be strongly motivated in the long term as well. Look at the number of people willing to put endless hours of grinding into building their guild cities. Cities which are essentially meaningless, which was one reason why AoC flopped in the end.
Warhammer offers the following:
Personal advancement.
Guild advancement.
City advancement.
Both of the latter directly impact your personal advancement. WAR's guild advancement is meaningful because it opens up more possibilities for everyone in the guild. WAR's city advancement is meaningful because it opens up more possibilities for everyone in the realm. Granted, players are going to be the most excited about their personal character advancement. Get in a good guild, though, and you'll see a LOT of enthusiasm about the guild's accomplishments; especially since those accomplishments get rewarded by the game. From there you'll start seeing guild rivalries as they compete to have the biggest impact on a realm level. There is a ton more than pride in one's own character to get excited about in WAR.
Um, Age of Conan did exactly what you're asking for. Once people found out that the beginning of the game was the best part, they left. WoW also did what you're asking for. Yep, people stuck around. And now they're bored to tears because they've gotten to the end game and found that there's no depth. WAR is giving you the end game from the very start. But it's a scaled down version. As you advance your character, more and more options open up. This makes the game increasingly compelling. Do I think that the start of the game could be better? Yes. Do I think that it's bad of them to have a game that shows more depth the farther you go? Not at all.
Again ALWAYS the same principle: you are speaking of MORE with LESS offering.
End game of WAR: capture the stratego flag (sorry capitol).
So 1 capitol WIPES the floor completely of 70 + highly developped Raids or dungeons.
It wipes out the numorous capitols that can be be freely raided in Wow and it wipes the floor with any other playing style possible except to bang the heads and conquer the captured Capitol and same Keeps.
It wipes out all other kinds of PvP styles like Arena and wipes out everything an MMORPG stood for in these last 10 years (professions included).
OP said: he wanted MORE to find in WAR.
And all you say : well less is more....b ecsue of RvR ?!? because of Stratego ???
Sorry to tell you its more like Daoc + Warhammer. It has plenty of CC , im only 15 in war but i get cc all the time , its usualy a snare/root/Kb , no it doesnt have a lockdown cc where you can kill people without them being able to defend their self, you actualy have to play this game but thats what makes the pvp in this game sooooo much better than most games , those type of complete cc ability have no reason at all to be anywhere close to a pvp game , including almost everything you listed as "pvp" features ( which they are not) NO THERE IS NO I WIN CC BUTTON, MIGHT TRY ANOTHER GAME FOR THAT CHEAP SHIT>
So tell me: what PLENTY of CC are in it and for how long/
I expect a list here:
and no short cuts and 4 or 5 letter words like cheap and shit.
Here's one item for you:
Collision Detection. Enemy players cannot move through you. That means you can set up shield walls, choke points, etc.
Try putting a row of tanks in a hallway. Then have a couple engineers or magus set up their turrets/pets behind that, along with some casters and healers. Then laugh and sell tickets as the enemy tries to get by.
Part of my point here is that no single character is going to be able to rule the battlefield. Solid tactics and group strategy will be where it's at in this game. We're not seeing much of that in open beta for the simple reason that everyone is too googly-eyed and scatter brained. Once the game goes live and real guilds form, you're going to start seeing more and more play by skilled teams. And when you put a solid team of tier 2 or higher players together, they will be able to exert a terrific amount of control between them.
A well placed and suicidal Witch Elf or Witch Hunter can turn the tide of a battle. You know all those pesky Bright Wizards? A Witch Elf can easily dispatch two or three of them before the group decides that the psychotic Elf needs to go down. With no AoE damage the tanks can easily push the group back.
Turning the tide of a battle doesn't equate to ruling the battlefield with crowd control. The debate as a whole here has been about crowd control. Which, ironically wasn't even mentioned in the OP's post.
With the way the trolling has been I like to read what I want. Kind of like selective hearing. . .only with forum reading.
It's a Jeep thing. . . _______ |___| \_______/ = |||||| = |X| \*........*/ |X| |X|_________|X| You wouldn't understand
NotArkardLord of the Rings Online CorrespondentMemberPosts: 164
Originally posted by aurick
Originally posted by NotArkard
Why do people insist on waiting it out until higher levels to see how awesome the game is? Obviously, the lower levels are the ones that should be targetted to keep the player interested, there's no reason for someone who is growing bored at level 5 to stick it out to level 5,000 so they can begin to experience the glorious world you're describing.
Um, Age of Conan did exactly what you're asking for. Once people found out that the beginning of the game was the best part, they left.
WoW also did what you're asking for. Yep, people stuck around. And now they're bored to tears because they've gotten to the end game and found that there's no depth.
WAR is giving you the end game from the very start. But it's a scaled down version. As you advance your character, more and more options open up. This makes the game increasingly compelling.
Do I think that the start of the game could be better? Yes. Do I think that it's bad of them to have a game that shows more depth the farther you go? Not at all.
So you're agreeing with me? Age of Conan and World of Warcraft did it right. Age of Conan's first few levels were an amazing experience, and although the game started to take a turn for the worse at the higher levels, it managed to keep people playing for that long, didn't it? We all know Age of Conan's dead, so there's no real point in even discussing how much that game failed at everything it said it was going to do. Instead, let's talk about a more successful game: World of Warcraft.
The end-game experience, as you described, lacks depth in every aspect. It is awful. Twenty-five chimps that know how to avoid an eye-beam or an orb can successfully complete everything Blizzard throws at them. Having said that, a lot of people love it. They repeat the same instances on and on and on and on and on, and contrary to the idea you seem to have, they are absolutely not bored. Some people seek more, but if WoW can retain 10 million active subscribers, it's for a reason.
Think about this for a second: World of Warcraft executed the low level experience extremely well, it convinced people that the end-game would be as good as the early levels they so thoroughly enjoyed. Because of this, there's a large amount of people that make it to level 70, and begin raiding with people they met along the way, or people they met at level 70, ensuring that their account remains active for many, many months to come. Some, after a few months decide that the game is awful and extremely boring. Maybe they leave, maybe they stick around. Mostly they stick around. The reasons are unknown to me, but hey, paying subscribers, right?
If you don't get the early levels right, you're going to have a lot less people interested in seeing what surprises lie ahead. It shouldn't be a matter of: "Man, these first few levels are awful, let me just play for 30 more to see if it gets any better." That's just ridiculous, and most people don't think that way. This isn't a problem for you, per se, but if EA Mythic decides to open up 40 servers a la Age of Conan and have 10,000 active subscribers in each, with little over 300 people on during peak hours, then you may find the game becoming increasingly bland over time. Or maybe you like that kind of thing. Who knows?
The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.
Um, Age of Conan did exactly what you're asking for. Once people found out that the beginning of the game was the best part, they left. WoW also did what you're asking for. Yep, people stuck around. And now they're bored to tears because they've gotten to the end game and found that there's no depth. WAR is giving you the end game from the very start. But it's a scaled down version. As you advance your character, more and more options open up. This makes the game increasingly compelling. Do I think that the start of the game could be better? Yes. Do I think that it's bad of them to have a game that shows more depth the farther you go? Not at all.
Again ALWAYS the same principle: you are speaking of MORE with LESS offering.
End game of WAR: capture the stratego flag (sorry capitol).
So 1 capitol WIPES the floor completely of 70 + highly developped Raids or dungeons.
It wipes out the numorous capitols that can be be freely raided in Wow and it wipes the floor with any other playing style possible except to bang the heads and conquer the captured Capitol and same Keeps.
It wipes out all other kinds of PvP styles like Arena and wipes out everything an MMORPG stood for in these last 10 years (professions included).
OP said: he wanted MORE to find in WAR.
And all you say : well less is more....b ecsue of RvR ?!? because of Stratego ???
Don't understand it.
Tell you what. Go back to WoW for the next five years. Then come check out WAR.
All these awesome "More" features that you're now talking about weren't even in WoW at launch. Yet you expect WAR to have them at launch? WoW didn't have raids. WoW didn't have battlegrounds. WoW still doesn't have city sieging or any sieging at all. WoW still doesn't have meaningful world PvP objectives.
This is really getting idiotic. The AoC forums were full of people justifying how little that game had at launch by the fact that "WoW has had five years's head start." Now people are bashing this game because it doesn't have features at launch that WoW took years to implement. Can we say "double standards", anyone?
WAR has more at launch than WoW did. It's got a helluva lot more at launch than AoC did. The devs have already stated that there's a lot planned for after launch. The fact that WAR has more to start with gives me reason to believe that it will grow to be a very big and popular game.
Your problem is that you're getting hung up on the minutiae of your itemized lists -- "How many crowd control abilities does WAR have compared to WoW?" -- and missing the big picture of a game where players can genuinely affect the entire world.
Obviously what it has now isn't enough for you. Fine. Go play your game and let us play ours. Come back and check WAR out later. Just stop being an ass.
Have you played WAR to end game? No. Yet you're assuming you'll be disappointed with it because it doesn't tally up on those little lists of yours. I HAVE played WoW to end game. Several times. And gotten bored to tears every time becaue the end game is nothing more than rep grinds and raid repetition against bosses so predictable that many guilds won't even raid until their little plugins can be updated with the new "I Win" strategy.
It's obvious from your posts that you fall into one of two categories:
A) You're bored with WoW and now want something different. But it had better be exactly the same.
You're bored with WoW and now want something with a bigger itemized list (which, by the way, you want someone else to compile for you). More dungeons. More raids. More battlegrounds. More armor sets. More of everything. In which case you're doomed to a life of disappointment because no new game is ever going to be able to release with more than a game that's been financed by millions of players for 5 years.
Tell you what. Go back to WoW for the next five years. Then come check out WAR.All these awesome "More" features that you're now talking about weren't even in WoW at launch. Yet you expect WAR to have them at launch? WoW didn't have raids. WoW didn't have battlegrounds. WoW still doesn't have city sieging or any sieging at all. WoW still doesn't have meaningful world PvP objectives.
This is really getting idiotic. The AoC forums were full of people justifying how little that game had at launch by the fact that "WoW has had five years's head start." Now people are bashing this game because it doesn't have features at launch that WoW took years to implement. Can we say "double standards", anyone?
Was going to comment on the AoC thing on 2 fronts..
Agree above about content. Everybody compares to WoW, well, yes, WoW has 4+ years of content built on top of it. At launch it had NOTHING, no PvP, Raids, BGs, nothing just slow level to 60 and UBRS! Wewt!
AoC: Same thing, people expect a game with 5 years worth of content on release, it doesn't happen that way. Forget the insane level of misguided hate towards Funcom, AoC needs the same amount of "grow" time other MMO's do. Funcom's problem, they tried to do too much with too little, and it backfired.
But,. the flip side...
WAR on the other hand, seems to be a step backwards in all directions.. I don't need to elaborate, because rational, educated, and thought-out posts saying anything negative about somebody's beloved game they've never played is frowned upon here. And I'm not turning this into another b*tch fest of which MMO's "pee-pee" is larger than the others...
Point being... WAR is a new pair of shoes on old feet. I've tried it, I've attempted to "get into it" multiple times. I feel no drawn, no attraction to it, no compelling reason to continue playing. It's the same drab quests, the same slow combat, and the same as every other game I've played before. Sure, somebody will tell me I'm retarded, don't know what I'm talking about, blah blah blah.. Well, I DO Know what I'm talking about, cause I'm talking about what matters to me. I dislike WAR, not because it's a bad game, I'm sure it's an amazing game to many people, but it's just not going to be MY game...
But, you can quote me on this, as I'm sure it will be relevant in the coming weeks...
AoC forums were filled with this same shyte of "ZOMG BEST GAME EVER" euphoria right around the middle of May... Even about 2 weeks after release, AoC was still being praised as the best thing since sliced bread. Of course after players played past the level cap imposed in the betas, after people saw the content, got bored, that outlook changed.. quickly. Immediately everybody screamed and cried and let their hate be known...
Why will WAR be any different? </end>
Hey TSW Players http://www.unfair.co/ for Mission guides, Lore Locations and stuff....
The CC categories in WAR are: Knock-back, knock-down, stun, root, snare and silence. They can be single target or AE. For a complete list of abilities check: www.wardb.com There is a crapload at Rank40. Do not forget tactics that add CC to non-CC abilities and morales for a comprehensive list. The average duration is 5sec.
Debuffs (such as CC) and buffs can be dispelled/purged by alot of classes as counter measures.
Your list of WoW content is right down misleading. The very feature that you hail with regard to WoW - gear releases every 6 months - kill alot of old content. Less so today than in vanilla WoW with the badge system - but badge grinds are among the least innovative features I have seen since it is a pure grind and nothing else. It does however give the non-raiders an opportunity to not be too far behind the hard-core raiders. When I was playing WoW seriously in TBC it had on average 2 raid dungeons to offer me (first SSC plus TK, later MH and BT - in the end one raid dungeon SW). That was it. And many were in that situation. It is not bad, but it is a reality very far from your '70 dungeons' bollocks.
At release WoW had: Plenty of content from level 1 to 60 with a low content period from 40 to 60 however (but it was ok - not really perfect though). As end-game it had: Stratholme, Scholomance and LBRS as 5-mans, UBRS as a small raid and MC as a large raid. There was no PvP content. This was a good amount of content since it meant that people could level to 60 and there was stuff to do once there to have fun. So a few months of content out of the box.
At release WAR has: Plenty of content from Rank1 to 40 (actually better coverage than WoW). As end-game it has: Bastion stair and Lost Vale as PvE dungeons (roughly a full both side Stratholme run each in size so larger than Scholo for example) and city PvE dungeons (small PvE dungeons), and PvP end-game in 3 pairings (9 zones of the same size as the average WoW zone) and 1 capitol city siege (per side). Each capitol city unlocks several 6-man dungeons and three major raid dungeons (small - including the 'king' encounter). The PvP system has gear ladders etc in ofc. So WAR also has a few months of solid content to plow through at launch which is a good thing.
So can you stop to spew all that propaganda crap like smoke rings from your behind? The proof of the pudding lies in Mythic's ability to add content in a few months time (just like Blizzard did), but out of the box it has a great amount of content.
Again ALWAYS the same principle: you are speaking of MORE with LESS offering.
End game of WAR: capture the stratego flag (sorry capitol).
So 1 capitol WIPES the floor completely of 70 + highly developped Raids or dungeons.
It wipes out the numorous capitols that can be be freely raided in Wow and it wipes the floor with any other playing style possible except to bang the heads and conquer the captured Capitol and same Keeps.
It wipes out all other kinds of PvP styles like Arena and wipes out everything an MMORPG stood for in these last 10 years (professions included).
OP said: he wanted MORE to find in WAR.
And all you say : well less is more....b ecsue of RvR ?!? because of Stratego ???
You over simplify War's content to make it seem like other games have more, which is how you try to mislead people, kinda like telling a lie.
If you were truthful, the amount of content in Warhammer, (not even released yet) compared to WoW (4 year old game) is much closer than you try to make it out to be. In fact that a game that is releasing next week has even close to the same amount of content of WoW is staggering, makes the WoW dev's seem lazy.
So to answer your troll, Warhammer as close to the same amount of content, Warhammer has better quality content, so thats why they are realeasing it and thats why we bought the game.
Rage - Head Honcho of the Revilers "Ragemore and Whine Less"
@Team fortress: The CC categories in WAR are: Knock-back, knock-down, stun, root, snare and silence. They can be single target or AE. For a complete list of abilities check: www.wardb.com There is a crapload at Rank40. Do not forget tactics that add CC to non-CC abilities and morales for a comprehensive list. The average duration is 5sec. Debuffs (such as CC) and buffs can be dispelled/purged by alot of classes as counter measures. Your list of WoW content is right down misleading. The very feature that you hail with regard to WoW - gear releases every 6 months - kill alot of old content. Less so today than in vanilla WoW with the badge system - but badge grinds are among the least innovative features I have seen since it is a pure grind and nothing else. It does however give the non-raiders an opportunity to not be too far behind the hard-core raiders. When I was playing WoW seriously in TBC it had on average 2 raid dungeons to offer me (first SSC plus TK, later MH and BT - in the end one raid dungeon SW). That was it. And many were in that situation. It is not bad, but it is a reality very far from your '70 dungeons' bollocks. At release WoW had: Plenty of content from level 1 to 60 with a low content period from 40 to 60 however (but it was ok - not really perfect though). As end-game it had: Stratholme, Scholomance and LBRS as 5-mans, UBRS as a small raid and MC as a large raid. There was no PvP content. This was a good amount of content since it meant that people could level to 60 and there was stuff to do once there to have fun. So a few months of content out of the box. At release WAR has: Plenty of content from Rank1 to 40 (actually better coverage than WoW). As end-game it has: Bastion stair and Lost Vale as PvE dungeons (roughly a full both side Stratholme run each in size so larger than Scholo for example) and city PvE dungeons (small PvE dungeons), and PvP end-game in 3 pairings (9 zones of the same size as the average WoW zone) and 1 capitol city siege (per side). Each capitol city unlocks several 6-man dungeons and three major raid dungeons (small - including the 'king' encounter). The PvP system has gear ladders etc in ofc. So WAR also has a few months of solid content to plow through at launch which is a good thing. So can you stop to spew all that propaganda crap like smoke rings from your behind? The proof of the pudding lies in Mythic's ability to add content in a few months time (just like Blizzard did), but out of the box it has a great amount of content.
Tx for the extensive answer.
As you know I appreciate this: a constructive post without using 4 letter words and needless Wow bashing is so much better.
I wanted a game based on Warhammer fantasy roleplaying game, a game without levels where you could walk the street of Middenheim, travel the Reich on a boat and with lots of RPG feeling.
We didnt get that, we got "Dark age of Altdorf" instead, many of you probably love that but I am dissapointed anyways.I am a huge fan of the old GW game and it kinda felt like when Hollywood makes a movie about a book.
I am not impressed by the roleplaying factor in LOTRO either for that matter, I miss the RPG factor of Biowares "Neverwinter nights" (not Ataris shitty sequel).
Tell you what. Go back to WoW for the next five years. Then come check out WAR.All these awesome "More" features that you're now talking about weren't even in WoW at launch. Yet you expect WAR to have them at launch? WoW didn't have raids. WoW didn't have battlegrounds. WoW still doesn't have city sieging or any sieging at all. WoW still doesn't have meaningful world PvP objectives.
This is really getting idiotic. The AoC forums were full of people justifying how little that game had at launch by the fact that "WoW has had five years's head start." Now people are bashing this game because it doesn't have features at launch that WoW took years to implement. Can we say "double standards", anyone?
Was going to comment on the AoC thing on 2 fronts..
Agree above about content. Everybody compares to WoW, well, yes, WoW has 4+ years of content built on top of it. At launch it had NOTHING, no PvP, Raids, BGs, nothing just slow level to 60 and UBRS! Wewt!
AoC: Same thing, people expect a game with 5 years worth of content on release, it doesn't happen that way. Forget the insane level of misguided hate towards Funcom, AoC needs the same amount of "grow" time other MMO's do. Funcom's problem, they tried to do too much with too little, and it backfired.
But,. the flip side...
WAR on the other hand, seems to be a step backwards in all directions.. I don't need to elaborate, because rational, educated, and thought-out posts saying anything negative about somebody's beloved game they've never played is frowned upon here. And I'm not turning this into another b*tch fest of which MMO's "pee-pee" is larger than the others...
Point being... WAR is a new pair of shoes on old feet. I've tried it, I've attempted to "get into it" multiple times. I feel no drawn, no attraction to it, no compelling reason to continue playing. It's the same drab quests, the same slow combat, and the same as every other game I've played before. Sure, somebody will tell me I'm retarded, don't know what I'm talking about, blah blah blah.. Well, I DO Know what I'm talking about, cause I'm talking about what matters to me. I dislike WAR, not because it's a bad game, I'm sure it's an amazing game to many people, but it's just not going to be MY game...
But, you can quote me on this, as I'm sure it will be relevant in the coming weeks...
AoC forums were filled with this same shyte of "ZOMG BEST GAME EVER" euphoria right around the middle of May... Even about 2 weeks after release, AoC was still being praised as the best thing since sliced bread. Of course after players played past the level cap imposed in the betas, after people saw the content, got bored, that outlook changed.. quickly. Immediately everybody screamed and cried and let their hate be known...
Why will WAR be any different? </end>
Thank you for a well articulated post.
I was one of the people extolling AoC's virtues -- until I got to level 55 and discovered how much content was broken or just plain missing. But I have several reasons to believe that WAR will be different:
WAR's NDA was lifted a few weeks ago. AoC's beta NDA has never been lifted to this day.
AoC's open beta was level limited. WAR's open beta is not.
AoC focused on the first 20 levels almost to the exclusion of anything else. WAR hasn't exactly neglected the first tier of content, but they have recognized that players get past that stuff pretty fast. By the accounts I've read from people who've gotten to higher tiers, along with the bit of tier 2 content I've seen so far, WAR has focused heavily on the content that will keep players hooked at later levels. I guess they're relying on word of mouth to get people hooked at earlier levels. Probably not the best idea, but still better than what AoC did.
AoC's open beta performed like ass. WAR's open beta is performing like a game that's ready for release but is now being heavily stressed to determine load balances and the like. That's not to say it's bug free. Only that it's not the bug-filled disaster that AoC proved to be, even after the "miracle patch".
AoC's representatives are notorious at this point for secrecy, lies and double talk. WAR's representatives have so far demonstrated themselves to be very honest and open.
I don't for a moment believe that WAR will be the game that unhorses WoW. Frankly, I think the only company that's ever going to be able to do that is Blizzard. But I'm not looking for an MMO equivalent of the Second Coming. All I'm looking for is a game that will have more actual meat at the end game. WoW's end game is nothing but grinding. Grind for rep. Grind for gear. Finished with that last grind? Here's a new one. WAR is offering what looks to be a very dynamic end game. Only time will tell if it will prove to be what I'm really looking for. But unlike some of these people, I'm not basing any assumptions on the first few levels.
Tx for the extensive answer. As you know I appreciate this: a constructive post without using 4 letter words and needless Wow bashing is so much better.
Thanks for your reply. I am sorry for my use of the words 'bollocks' , 'spewing' and 'behind' but I got a bit emotional
@Team fortress: The CC categories in WAR are: Knock-back, knock-down, stun, root, snare and silence. They can be single target or AE. For a complete list of abilities check: www.wardb.com There is a crapload at Rank40. Do not forget tactics that add CC to non-CC abilities and morales for a comprehensive list. The average duration is 5sec. Debuffs (such as CC) and buffs can be dispelled/purged by alot of classes as counter measures. Your list of WoW content is right down misleading. The very feature that you hail with regard to WoW - gear releases every 6 months - kill alot of old content. Less so today than in vanilla WoW with the badge system - but badge grinds are among the least innovative features I have seen since it is a pure grind and nothing else. It does however give the non-raiders an opportunity to not be too far behind the hard-core raiders. When I was playing WoW seriously in TBC it had on average 2 raid dungeons to offer me (first SSC plus TK, later MH and BT - in the end one raid dungeon SW). That was it. And many were in that situation. It is not bad, but it is a reality very far from your '70 dungeons' bollocks. At release WoW had: Plenty of content from level 1 to 60 with a low content period from 40 to 60 however (but it was ok - not really perfect though). As end-game it had: Stratholme, Scholomance and LBRS as 5-mans, UBRS as a small raid and MC as a large raid. There was no PvP content. This was a good amount of content since it meant that people could level to 60 and there was stuff to do once there to have fun. So a few months of content out of the box. At release WAR has: Plenty of content from Rank1 to 40 (actually better coverage than WoW). As end-game it has: Bastion stair and Lost Vale as PvE dungeons (roughly a full both side Stratholme run each in size so larger than Scholo for example) and city PvE dungeons (small PvE dungeons), and PvP end-game in 3 pairings (9 zones of the same size as the average WoW zone) and 1 capitol city siege (per side). Each capitol city unlocks several 6-man dungeons and three major raid dungeons (small - including the 'king' encounter). The PvP system has gear ladders etc in ofc. So WAR also has a few months of solid content to plow through at launch which is a good thing. So can you stop to spew all that propaganda crap like smoke rings from your behind? The proof of the pudding lies in Mythic's ability to add content in a few months time (just like Blizzard did), but out of the box it has a great amount of content.
Two little niggles with your post:
Molten Core was not in the game at release. It didn't come until about 6 months later.
You don't list Onyxia. Technically, that wasn't in at release either. But it came out before MC, which is why I mention it.
Two little niggles with your post: Molten Core was not in the game at release. It didn't come until about 6 months later. You don't list Onyxia. Technically, that wasn't in at release either. But it came out before MC, which is why I mention it. So the truth is that WoW had no raids at release.
Actually MC was in but had alot of balance issues. When I stepped in there trash never respawned and had quite short respawn timers as an example. It was pretty painful (but fun for a masochist like me).
WAR is doing it right in my opinion. They release with a core game and can always add other elements later. This is basically what LOTRO did, adding in cool stuff after release that added more to the game.
Graphics in WAR is a mixed bag. I am hoping that with release, graphics are bumped up a notch without losing performance. WOW and LOTRO crafting are boring. I think for more fun crafting, SWG or Saga of Ryzom. Armor in WAR so far looks pretty badass though and you can dye stuff which is very nice.
As for combat, LOTRO combat is boring and WOW pvp was not that fun owing to class imbalances.
I wanted LOTRO's RP stuff, the story line, the lore, the music, and the outfits.
I wanted WoW's raiding, WoW's PvP features, stealth, fear, feign death, charge, blink and so on.
WoW and LOTRO's execellent PvE questing.
And WAR's RvR.
I expected WAR to have all this.
Why does WAR have so little? People keep telling me that minimalism is good. I don't see it. I expect more from a new game, not less that games that are four years old.
1st of all if it had WoW type raiding i would never have wanted to play it.
Wow's pvp/features sucks soo bad that im glad its nothing like it.
It doesn't have so little, and crowd control abilities are cheap ways to win as well as stealth.
In WAR it's really about WAR...not some stupid little sheep or fear turning the tides of the battle.
Finally a FUN new MMO...Really all i can say is WoW is old and boring as hell, i can't even force myself to play WOTLK beta anymore it's just sooooo lame.
Try playing Order for a while. I know a lot of people are really excited about this game, but generally they are Destruction players who are happy as clams because they are at the moment nearly unbeatable in PvP. Try playing Order. It will give you a whole other viewpoint on the game.
I play destruction because the order classes dont appeal to me. If they did i would have been playing order no matter what. I played alliance most of the years in WoW so i can tolerate just about any situation without crying. I was also a red in UO for a couple years and was outnumbered by alot as well and still had just a good of a time.
I wanted LOTRO's RP stuff, the story line, the lore, the music, and the outfits. I wanted WoW's raiding, WoW's PvP features, stealth, fear, feign death, charge, blink and so on. WoW and LOTRO's execellent PvE questing. And WAR's RvR. I expected WAR to have all this. Why does WAR have so little? People keep telling me that minimalism is good. I don't see it. I expect more from a new game, not less that games that are four years old.
1st of all if it had WoW type raiding i would never have wanted to play it.
Wow's pvp/features sucks soo bad that im glad its nothing like it.
It doesn't have so little, and crowd control abilities are cheap ways to win as well as stealth.
In WAR it's really about WAR...not some stupid little sheep or fear turning the tides of the battle.
Finally a FUN new MMO...Really all i can say is WoW is old and boring as hell, i can't even force myself to play WOTLK beta anymore it's just sooooo lame.
The basic question was simple:
Why does WAR have so little? And all you can come up with is even more "little words" which don't mean a thing.
Words like "sucks" "bad" "CC is "cheap" "stupid" are hardly answers to his question.
The above words are meaningless answers to his questions.
Sorry, it is what it is.... no matter what the word size is.
I went by the description of what HE wanted. Its not my fault he thinks WAR is a small game when its actually pretty huge...not my fault either he didnt check out more of the content.
If you need a dictionary please send me a pm and ill send you a link to an online dictionary ...
Cuz i'll say it again it really all is what it is in WoW...Sucks,bad,CC is cheap, Stupid,...best description ever on one line i'd say.
I wanted LOTRO's RP stuff, the story line, the lore, the music, and the outfits. I wanted WoW's raiding, WoW's PvP features, stealth, fear, feign death, charge, blink and so on. WoW and LOTRO's execellent PvE questing. And AoC's graphics (we are in 2008-2009 aren't we?) And WAR's RvR. I expected WAR to have all this. Why does WAR have so little? People keep telling me that minimalism is good. I don't see it. I expect more from a new game, not less that games that are four years old.
I wanted LOTRO's RP stuff, the story line, the lore, the music, and the outfits. I wanted WoW's raiding, WoW's PvP features, stealth, fear, feign death, charge, blink and so on. WoW and LOTRO's execellent PvE questing. And WAR's RvR. I expected WAR to have all this. Why does WAR have so little? People keep telling me that minimalism is good. I don't see it. I expect more from a new game, not less that games that are four years old.
Lets see here... why doesnt WAR have the features of WoW and LOTR:O... hrmmm...
Oh oh! I know!... Because... ITS WAR?!... Not WoW/LOTR:O.
Comments
Why do people insist on waiting it out until higher levels to see how awesome the game is? Obviously, the lower levels are the ones that should be targetted to keep the player interested, there's no reason for someone who is growing bored at level 5 to stick it out to level 5,000 so they can begin to experience the glorious world you're describing. Chances are, if you don't like the game as a lowbie, you're not going to like it in the later levels. Conversely, if you do stick around and force yourself to play until that "meaningful tier/level" and you end up not liking the content at that point, then you're going to hate yourself, and hate the game; you'll turn into one of those people with a personal vendetta for a game, and nobody likes those guys.
It sounds like the strongest point this game has, from what I read of the posts here is that it's simplistic PvP. It's just a war? Big deal. There are no stun mechanics? So someone getting hit with the hilt of your sword will shake it off as if he was made of steel himself? Someone getting hit with a mace or a flail to the head will apparently walk it off in the world of WAR. Don't they have pistols in the game, too? Now, I don't claim to be an expert, nor have I ever been shot, but I imagine the force of the blow would cause you to stagger at least.
"For example, it took WoW months to implement battlegrounds, which serve no real purpose other than getting you better gear. WAR has them right from the start, and they benefit everyone -- you personally, your guild, and your whole faction."
How is this argument even relevant? I don't play WoW anymore, but I have played it since the old days and only stopped about a year ago. WoW is a game that is centered around gear, and so it makes sense that by PvPing, you obtain... [i]better gear[/i]. WAR is a game centered around faction play, and so it makes sense that by PvPing you...well, you see where I'm going with this, right?
That argument in no way proves WAR has anything more than WoW did at launch, since the argument can be used that WoW had gear, in the same way WAR will have PvP at launch, the two things the two game are based around. See how little sense that makes?
I have played DAoC, so I should like WAR. I think. I'm still not convinced, though. It sounds like the best argument this game has is that it's made by the same guys that made DAoC. That's about it. I liked DAoC just because it was DAoC, though, not because it was WAR. I'm certainly not going to like WAR because it tries to be like DAoC, because it DOES NOT. It tries to be like WoW, and I've had enough of that for a while.
The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.
No you didn't answer. You dodge the question.
Every time I am asking for a very specific answer why CC is bad, there is no answer. Except for the guy who gave a very good answer in the blocking thing, but all the rest is "hype" and "believe".
Lesser possibilites for CC in a PvP fight is less. Nothing more.
I just wanted to hear that. Less is less not more.
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Next : RvR: what is it ? Again "less for more" theory. : some "high objective far surpassing other games".
Let's analyse....
Black against white, Good versus Evil, Chaos against Order, Red against Blue.
RvR and pride primes everything - even personal gear; Ok?
But in this case Stratego is the ultimate RvR game isn't it ?
Catch the final capitol. And then what ? --- ?
Recatch it ? What's the catch of recatching it? Re-recatching it?
Here is the heart of RvR and why it won't hold intrest for long in MMORPG's. Add the massive CC lacking zerg fests and why would a player play after 3 months catching the recatched capitol?
AoC died of this very poor end game "catch the castle thing" and WAR offers indeed less than less.
The only long term motivation in an MMORPG is the avatar (players) build. Nothing more .... nothing less.
DAOC was popular much longer than 3 months...
I played WoW off and on for 4 years and I almost never did a PvE raid. Generally I would level to max, get bored and quit and restart a new character. That is how I assume I'll play WAR as well. An endless gear chase(raids/arena) or AA grind(EQ) is not really an end game motivation for me, it is just boring.
Um, Age of Conan did exactly what you're asking for. Once people found out that the beginning of the game was the best part, they left.
WoW also did what you're asking for. Yep, people stuck around. And now they're bored to tears because they've gotten to the end game and found that there's no depth.
WAR is giving you the end game from the very start. But it's a scaled down version. As you advance your character, more and more options open up. This makes the game increasingly compelling.
Do I think that the start of the game could be better? Yes. Do I think that it's bad of them to have a game that shows more depth the farther you go? Not at all.
No you didn't answer. You dodge the question.
Every time I am asking for a very specific answer why CC is bad, there is no answer. Except for the guy who gave a very good answer in the blocking thing, but all the rest is "hype" and "believe".
Lesser possibilites for CC in a PvP fight is less. Nothing more.
I just wanted to hear that. Less is less not more.
-----------------------------------------------
Next : RvR: what is it ? Again "less for more" theory. : some "high objective far surpassing other games".
Let's analyse....
Black against white, Good versus Evil, Chaos against Order, Red against Blue.
RvR and pride primes everything - even personal gear; Ok?
But in this case Stratego is the ultimate RvR game isn't it ?
Catch the final capitol. And then what ? --- ?
Recatch it ? What's the catch of recatching it? Re-recatching it?
Here is the heart of RvR and why it won't hold intrest for long in MMORPG's. Add the massive CC lacking zerg fests and why would a player play after 3 months catching the recatched capitol?
AoC died of this very poor end game "catch the castle thing" and WAR offers indeed less than less.
The only long term motivation in an MMORPG is the avatar (players) build. Nothing more .... nothing less.
He is just trolling for fun , making up stuff to ask so it looks like he is doing something other than trolling , he is just leveling up his forum troll skills, let him be .
There is nothing less about WaR only more , again go play/troll another game this one isnt for you mr OMG i cant play without cc , how is it fun ? its not fun geting cc'd , and its not fun killing someone you have cc'd. Its not lacking cc and its not a zerg , get you fact straight before an attempted trolling . AoC sieging died becouse it never worked , and only got worse with every patch.
Wrong. It's the only one you're used to seeing. There's a difference.
Age of Conan proved that groups can be strongly motivated in the long term as well. Look at the number of people willing to put endless hours of grinding into building their guild cities. Cities which are essentially meaningless, which was one reason why AoC flopped in the end.
Warhammer offers the following:
Personal advancement.
Guild advancement.
City advancement.
Both of the latter directly impact your personal advancement. WAR's guild advancement is meaningful because it opens up more possibilities for everyone in the guild. WAR's city advancement is meaningful because it opens up more possibilities for everyone in the realm. Granted, players are going to be the most excited about their personal character advancement. Get in a good guild, though, and you'll see a LOT of enthusiasm about the guild's accomplishments; especially since those accomplishments get rewarded by the game. From there you'll start seeing guild rivalries as they compete to have the biggest impact on a realm level. There is a ton more than pride in one's own character to get excited about in WAR.
Again ALWAYS the same principle: you are speaking of MORE with LESS offering.
End game of WAR: capture the stratego flag (sorry capitol).
So 1 capitol WIPES the floor completely of 70 + highly developped Raids or dungeons.
It wipes out the numorous capitols that can be be freely raided in Wow and it wipes the floor with any other playing style possible except to bang the heads and conquer the captured Capitol and same Keeps.
It wipes out all other kinds of PvP styles like Arena and wipes out everything an MMORPG stood for in these last 10 years (professions included).
OP said: he wanted MORE to find in WAR.
And all you say : well less is more....b ecsue of RvR ?!? because of Stratego ???
Don't understand it.
So tell me: what PLENTY of CC are in it and for how long/
I expect a list here:
and no short cuts and 4 or 5 letter words like cheap and shit.
Here's one item for you:
Collision Detection. Enemy players cannot move through you. That means you can set up shield walls, choke points, etc.
Try putting a row of tanks in a hallway. Then have a couple engineers or magus set up their turrets/pets behind that, along with some casters and healers. Then laugh and sell tickets as the enemy tries to get by.
Part of my point here is that no single character is going to be able to rule the battlefield. Solid tactics and group strategy will be where it's at in this game. We're not seeing much of that in open beta for the simple reason that everyone is too googly-eyed and scatter brained. Once the game goes live and real guilds form, you're going to start seeing more and more play by skilled teams. And when you put a solid team of tier 2 or higher players together, they will be able to exert a terrific amount of control between them.
A well placed and suicidal Witch Elf or Witch Hunter can turn the tide of a battle. You know all those pesky Bright Wizards? A Witch Elf can easily dispatch two or three of them before the group decides that the psychotic Elf needs to go down. With no AoE damage the tanks can easily push the group back.
Turning the tide of a battle doesn't equate to ruling the battlefield with crowd control.
The debate as a whole here has been about crowd control. Which, ironically wasn't even mentioned in the OP's post.
With the way the trolling has been I like to read what I want. Kind of like selective hearing. . .only with forum reading.
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You wouldn't understand
Um, Age of Conan did exactly what you're asking for. Once people found out that the beginning of the game was the best part, they left.
WoW also did what you're asking for. Yep, people stuck around. And now they're bored to tears because they've gotten to the end game and found that there's no depth.
WAR is giving you the end game from the very start. But it's a scaled down version. As you advance your character, more and more options open up. This makes the game increasingly compelling.
Do I think that the start of the game could be better? Yes. Do I think that it's bad of them to have a game that shows more depth the farther you go? Not at all.
So you're agreeing with me? Age of Conan and World of Warcraft did it right. Age of Conan's first few levels were an amazing experience, and although the game started to take a turn for the worse at the higher levels, it managed to keep people playing for that long, didn't it? We all know Age of Conan's dead, so there's no real point in even discussing how much that game failed at everything it said it was going to do. Instead, let's talk about a more successful game: World of Warcraft.
The end-game experience, as you described, lacks depth in every aspect. It is awful. Twenty-five chimps that know how to avoid an eye-beam or an orb can successfully complete everything Blizzard throws at them. Having said that, a lot of people love it. They repeat the same instances on and on and on and on and on, and contrary to the idea you seem to have, they are absolutely not bored. Some people seek more, but if WoW can retain 10 million active subscribers, it's for a reason.
Think about this for a second: World of Warcraft executed the low level experience extremely well, it convinced people that the end-game would be as good as the early levels they so thoroughly enjoyed. Because of this, there's a large amount of people that make it to level 70, and begin raiding with people they met along the way, or people they met at level 70, ensuring that their account remains active for many, many months to come. Some, after a few months decide that the game is awful and extremely boring. Maybe they leave, maybe they stick around. Mostly they stick around. The reasons are unknown to me, but hey, paying subscribers, right?
If you don't get the early levels right, you're going to have a lot less people interested in seeing what surprises lie ahead. It shouldn't be a matter of: "Man, these first few levels are awful, let me just play for 30 more to see if it gets any better." That's just ridiculous, and most people don't think that way. This isn't a problem for you, per se, but if EA Mythic decides to open up 40 servers a la Age of Conan and have 10,000 active subscribers in each, with little over 300 people on during peak hours, then you may find the game becoming increasingly bland over time. Or maybe you like that kind of thing. Who knows?
The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.
Again ALWAYS the same principle: you are speaking of MORE with LESS offering.
End game of WAR: capture the stratego flag (sorry capitol).
So 1 capitol WIPES the floor completely of 70 + highly developped Raids or dungeons.
It wipes out the numorous capitols that can be be freely raided in Wow and it wipes the floor with any other playing style possible except to bang the heads and conquer the captured Capitol and same Keeps.
It wipes out all other kinds of PvP styles like Arena and wipes out everything an MMORPG stood for in these last 10 years (professions included).
OP said: he wanted MORE to find in WAR.
And all you say : well less is more....b ecsue of RvR ?!? because of Stratego ???
Don't understand it.
Tell you what. Go back to WoW for the next five years. Then come check out WAR.
All these awesome "More" features that you're now talking about weren't even in WoW at launch. Yet you expect WAR to have them at launch? WoW didn't have raids. WoW didn't have battlegrounds. WoW still doesn't have city sieging or any sieging at all. WoW still doesn't have meaningful world PvP objectives.
This is really getting idiotic. The AoC forums were full of people justifying how little that game had at launch by the fact that "WoW has had five years's head start." Now people are bashing this game because it doesn't have features at launch that WoW took years to implement. Can we say "double standards", anyone?
WAR has more at launch than WoW did. It's got a helluva lot more at launch than AoC did. The devs have already stated that there's a lot planned for after launch. The fact that WAR has more to start with gives me reason to believe that it will grow to be a very big and popular game.
Your problem is that you're getting hung up on the minutiae of your itemized lists -- "How many crowd control abilities does WAR have compared to WoW?" -- and missing the big picture of a game where players can genuinely affect the entire world.
Obviously what it has now isn't enough for you. Fine. Go play your game and let us play ours. Come back and check WAR out later. Just stop being an ass.
Have you played WAR to end game? No. Yet you're assuming you'll be disappointed with it because it doesn't tally up on those little lists of yours. I HAVE played WoW to end game. Several times. And gotten bored to tears every time becaue the end game is nothing more than rep grinds and raid repetition against bosses so predictable that many guilds won't even raid until their little plugins can be updated with the new "I Win" strategy.
It's obvious from your posts that you fall into one of two categories:
A) You're bored with WoW and now want something different. But it had better be exactly the same.
Was going to comment on the AoC thing on 2 fronts..
Agree above about content. Everybody compares to WoW, well, yes, WoW has 4+ years of content built on top of it. At launch it had NOTHING, no PvP, Raids, BGs, nothing just slow level to 60 and UBRS! Wewt!
AoC: Same thing, people expect a game with 5 years worth of content on release, it doesn't happen that way. Forget the insane level of misguided hate towards Funcom, AoC needs the same amount of "grow" time other MMO's do. Funcom's problem, they tried to do too much with too little, and it backfired.
But,. the flip side...
WAR on the other hand, seems to be a step backwards in all directions.. I don't need to elaborate, because rational, educated, and thought-out posts saying anything negative about somebody's beloved game they've never played is frowned upon here. And I'm not turning this into another b*tch fest of which MMO's "pee-pee" is larger than the others...
Point being... WAR is a new pair of shoes on old feet. I've tried it, I've attempted to "get into it" multiple times. I feel no drawn, no attraction to it, no compelling reason to continue playing. It's the same drab quests, the same slow combat, and the same as every other game I've played before. Sure, somebody will tell me I'm retarded, don't know what I'm talking about, blah blah blah.. Well, I DO Know what I'm talking about, cause I'm talking about what matters to me. I dislike WAR, not because it's a bad game, I'm sure it's an amazing game to many people, but it's just not going to be MY game...
But, you can quote me on this, as I'm sure it will be relevant in the coming weeks...
AoC forums were filled with this same shyte of "ZOMG BEST GAME EVER" euphoria right around the middle of May... Even about 2 weeks after release, AoC was still being praised as the best thing since sliced bread. Of course after players played past the level cap imposed in the betas, after people saw the content, got bored, that outlook changed.. quickly. Immediately everybody screamed and cried and let their hate be known...
Why will WAR be any different? </end>
Hey TSW Players http://www.unfair.co/ for Mission guides, Lore Locations and stuff....
@Team fortress:
The CC categories in WAR are: Knock-back, knock-down, stun, root, snare and silence. They can be single target or AE. For a complete list of abilities check: www.wardb.com There is a crapload at Rank40. Do not forget tactics that add CC to non-CC abilities and morales for a comprehensive list. The average duration is 5sec.
Debuffs (such as CC) and buffs can be dispelled/purged by alot of classes as counter measures.
Your list of WoW content is right down misleading. The very feature that you hail with regard to WoW - gear releases every 6 months - kill alot of old content. Less so today than in vanilla WoW with the badge system - but badge grinds are among the least innovative features I have seen since it is a pure grind and nothing else. It does however give the non-raiders an opportunity to not be too far behind the hard-core raiders. When I was playing WoW seriously in TBC it had on average 2 raid dungeons to offer me (first SSC plus TK, later MH and BT - in the end one raid dungeon SW). That was it. And many were in that situation. It is not bad, but it is a reality very far from your '70 dungeons' bollocks.
At release WoW had: Plenty of content from level 1 to 60 with a low content period from 40 to 60 however (but it was ok - not really perfect though). As end-game it had: Stratholme, Scholomance and LBRS as 5-mans, UBRS as a small raid and MC as a large raid. There was no PvP content. This was a good amount of content since it meant that people could level to 60 and there was stuff to do once there to have fun. So a few months of content out of the box.
At release WAR has: Plenty of content from Rank1 to 40 (actually better coverage than WoW). As end-game it has: Bastion stair and Lost Vale as PvE dungeons (roughly a full both side Stratholme run each in size so larger than Scholo for example) and city PvE dungeons (small PvE dungeons), and PvP end-game in 3 pairings (9 zones of the same size as the average WoW zone) and 1 capitol city siege (per side). Each capitol city unlocks several 6-man dungeons and three major raid dungeons (small - including the 'king' encounter). The PvP system has gear ladders etc in ofc. So WAR also has a few months of solid content to plow through at launch which is a good thing.
So can you stop to spew all that propaganda crap like smoke rings from your behind? The proof of the pudding lies in Mythic's ability to add content in a few months time (just like Blizzard did), but out of the box it has a great amount of content.
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Again ALWAYS the same principle: you are speaking of MORE with LESS offering.
End game of WAR: capture the stratego flag (sorry capitol).
So 1 capitol WIPES the floor completely of 70 + highly developped Raids or dungeons.
It wipes out the numorous capitols that can be be freely raided in Wow and it wipes the floor with any other playing style possible except to bang the heads and conquer the captured Capitol and same Keeps.
It wipes out all other kinds of PvP styles like Arena and wipes out everything an MMORPG stood for in these last 10 years (professions included).
OP said: he wanted MORE to find in WAR.
And all you say : well less is more....b ecsue of RvR ?!? because of Stratego ???
Don't understand it.
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The answer to your question is simple.
Quality is better than Quantity.
You over simplify War's content to make it seem like other games have more, which is how you try to mislead people, kinda like telling a lie.
If you were truthful, the amount of content in Warhammer, (not even released yet) compared to WoW (4 year old game) is much closer than you try to make it out to be. In fact that a game that is releasing next week has even close to the same amount of content of WoW is staggering, makes the WoW dev's seem lazy.
So to answer your troll, Warhammer as close to the same amount of content, Warhammer has better quality content, so thats why they are realeasing it and thats why we bought the game.
Rage - Head Honcho of the Revilers
"Ragemore and Whine Less"
Tx for the extensive answer.
As you know I appreciate this: a constructive post without using 4 letter words and needless Wow bashing is so much better.
I wanted a game based on Warhammer fantasy roleplaying game, a game without levels where you could walk the street of Middenheim, travel the Reich on a boat and with lots of RPG feeling.
We didnt get that, we got "Dark age of Altdorf" instead, many of you probably love that but I am dissapointed anyways.I am a huge fan of the old GW game and it kinda felt like when Hollywood makes a movie about a book.
I am not impressed by the roleplaying factor in LOTRO either for that matter, I miss the RPG factor of Biowares "Neverwinter nights" (not Ataris shitty sequel).
y the hell would u start playing a game wanting it to be like others
when i popped in cod4 for the first time i didnt go
YES I HOPE THIS GAME IS LIKE CSS AND BATTLEFIELD PUT TOGETHER
no ididnt
so y would i here
u crazy
Was going to comment on the AoC thing on 2 fronts..
Agree above about content. Everybody compares to WoW, well, yes, WoW has 4+ years of content built on top of it. At launch it had NOTHING, no PvP, Raids, BGs, nothing just slow level to 60 and UBRS! Wewt!
AoC: Same thing, people expect a game with 5 years worth of content on release, it doesn't happen that way. Forget the insane level of misguided hate towards Funcom, AoC needs the same amount of "grow" time other MMO's do. Funcom's problem, they tried to do too much with too little, and it backfired.
But,. the flip side...
WAR on the other hand, seems to be a step backwards in all directions.. I don't need to elaborate, because rational, educated, and thought-out posts saying anything negative about somebody's beloved game they've never played is frowned upon here. And I'm not turning this into another b*tch fest of which MMO's "pee-pee" is larger than the others...
Point being... WAR is a new pair of shoes on old feet. I've tried it, I've attempted to "get into it" multiple times. I feel no drawn, no attraction to it, no compelling reason to continue playing. It's the same drab quests, the same slow combat, and the same as every other game I've played before. Sure, somebody will tell me I'm retarded, don't know what I'm talking about, blah blah blah.. Well, I DO Know what I'm talking about, cause I'm talking about what matters to me. I dislike WAR, not because it's a bad game, I'm sure it's an amazing game to many people, but it's just not going to be MY game...
But, you can quote me on this, as I'm sure it will be relevant in the coming weeks...
AoC forums were filled with this same shyte of "ZOMG BEST GAME EVER" euphoria right around the middle of May... Even about 2 weeks after release, AoC was still being praised as the best thing since sliced bread. Of course after players played past the level cap imposed in the betas, after people saw the content, got bored, that outlook changed.. quickly. Immediately everybody screamed and cried and let their hate be known...
Why will WAR be any different? </end>
Thank you for a well articulated post.
I was one of the people extolling AoC's virtues -- until I got to level 55 and discovered how much content was broken or just plain missing. But I have several reasons to believe that WAR will be different:
I don't for a moment believe that WAR will be the game that unhorses WoW. Frankly, I think the only company that's ever going to be able to do that is Blizzard. But I'm not looking for an MMO equivalent of the Second Coming. All I'm looking for is a game that will have more actual meat at the end game. WoW's end game is nothing but grinding. Grind for rep. Grind for gear. Finished with that last grind? Here's a new one. WAR is offering what looks to be a very dynamic end game. Only time will tell if it will prove to be what I'm really looking for. But unlike some of these people, I'm not basing any assumptions on the first few levels.
Thanks for your reply. I am sorry for my use of the words 'bollocks' , 'spewing' and 'behind' but I got a bit emotional
Two little niggles with your post:
Molten Core was not in the game at release. It didn't come until about 6 months later.
You don't list Onyxia. Technically, that wasn't in at release either. But it came out before MC, which is why I mention it.
So the truth is that WoW had no raids at release.
Actually MC was in but had alot of balance issues. When I stepped in there trash never respawned and had quite short respawn timers as an example. It was pretty painful (but fun for a masochist like me).
WAR is doing it right in my opinion. They release with a core game and can always add other elements later. This is basically what LOTRO did, adding in cool stuff after release that added more to the game.
Graphics in WAR is a mixed bag. I am hoping that with release, graphics are bumped up a notch without losing performance. WOW and LOTRO crafting are boring. I think for more fun crafting, SWG or Saga of Ryzom. Armor in WAR so far looks pretty badass though and you can dye stuff which is very nice.
As for combat, LOTRO combat is boring and WOW pvp was not that fun owing to class imbalances.
1st of all if it had WoW type raiding i would never have wanted to play it.
Wow's pvp/features sucks soo bad that im glad its nothing like it.
It doesn't have so little, and crowd control abilities are cheap ways to win as well as stealth.
In WAR it's really about WAR...not some stupid little sheep or fear turning the tides of the battle.
Finally a FUN new MMO...Really all i can say is WoW is old and boring as hell, i can't even force myself to play WOTLK beta anymore it's just sooooo lame.
Try playing Order for a while. I know a lot of people are really excited about this game, but generally they are Destruction players who are happy as clams because they are at the moment nearly unbeatable in PvP. Try playing Order. It will give you a whole other viewpoint on the game.
I play destruction because the order classes dont appeal to me. If they did i would have been playing order no matter what. I played alliance most of the years in WoW so i can tolerate just about any situation without crying. I was also a red in UO for a couple years and was outnumbered by alot as well and still had just a good of a time.
1st of all if it had WoW type raiding i would never have wanted to play it.
Wow's pvp/features sucks soo bad that im glad its nothing like it.
It doesn't have so little, and crowd control abilities are cheap ways to win as well as stealth.
In WAR it's really about WAR...not some stupid little sheep or fear turning the tides of the battle.
Finally a FUN new MMO...Really all i can say is WoW is old and boring as hell, i can't even force myself to play WOTLK beta anymore it's just sooooo lame.
The basic question was simple:
Why does WAR have so little? And all you can come up with is even more "little words" which don't mean a thing.
Words like "sucks" "bad" "CC is "cheap" "stupid" are hardly answers to his question.
The above words are meaningless answers to his questions.
Sorry, it is what it is.... no matter what the word size is.
I went by the description of what HE wanted. Its not my fault he thinks WAR is a small game when its actually pretty huge...not my fault either he didnt check out more of the content.
If you need a dictionary please send me a pm and ill send you a link to an online dictionary ...
Cuz i'll say it again it really all is what it is in WoW...Sucks,bad,CC is cheap, Stupid,...best description ever on one line i'd say.
There, you forgot that one
Lets see here... why doesnt WAR have the features of WoW and LOTR:O... hrmmm...
Oh oh! I know!... Because... ITS WAR?!... Not WoW/LOTR:O.