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Is WAR a speciality/niche game or not?
Yunbei
Member Posts: 898
First, currently I am having a blast playing WAR, despite some problems, after finding the right class WAR is enjoyable. it is solid, good gameplay. (Oh and besides I dont play WOW, just for the record, I am an old EQ2/VG type of gamer.)
However, one of the things I wonder while I now played some character to Level 10+ is, if WAR is just another speciality/niche game like PotBS or Tabula Rasa? Despite the fact that there is PVE and PVP, the RVR thing is clearly the thing which dominates the entire design. One of the things I always loved in MMOs was the idea to have a second, alternate world where it would be interesting to live in, have your house and city, go on socializing, make a picnic with friends at a serene lake after a battle in some dangerous zone. Something I loved the old SWG and still hold this game as prolly the best MMO I have played so far. It was a WORLD to live in.
So far there is war everywhere. As Mythic said, but hearing it and seeing it are two entirely different things. While sure it is very exciting, I vividly recall Tabula Rasa was the same. In the first 3 weeks or so it was exciting and fun to be in war everywhere. But people need contrast. The war needs a reason, a place pr an ideal you are fighting for, and that is what so far I miss in WAR. Even in the halls of the Dwarfs where you start war is at your pub's doorstep. Personally, I would prefer to have more places of NOT war, of peace. Some peaceful meadow with butterflies and bunnies to make the war more stand out, to have this "aww this is the good place I defend", this is the "home" I am fighting for. As it is, the world feels very unhomely to me, and while I love the excitement now, I wonder how long the feeling of being in a world where war is everywhere can keep me.
WAR seems to me like it specialized on ONE aspect and highlighted that a lot. That aspect is done great, but I wonder if such a focussed game really can be more than another niche, and those who will stay in WAR for a longer time are just only those die-hard, plantside PVP-geeks? When I started games like SWG or EQ2 it was with the perspective of YEARS to live in those worlds, because they were an entire cosmos. I just dont see me playing WAR that long. What is there is good, no doubt, but I wonder about the other things which are NOT there, thats where I have doubts atm.
Comments
Yes its a niche game. Just like every other MMO on the market. Some will argue with me on that point but the fact is everyone enjoys diffrent games for diffrent reasons thus, niche. Most games have one or two things they do verry well.
I think it is. I kinda agree, though...
Going to the major city of my faction helped a lot with immersion and cause.
That will only help so much, but you should check it out if you haven't
I don't see it as a niche game, per se. To me the game has very broad appeal and supports many play preferences.
That being said, I agree with most of what you wrote. There does need to be some areas of untouched beauty, or fatigue with the setting will set in very quickly for some people.
I also relate on the "something nice worth fighting for" sentiment.
You put into words one of my areas of concern for the game.
I'm praying that there are some areas or even full zones where nature itself holds sway, rather than the factions. Some as sanctuary and others where both armies fear to tread due to protective forces, ferocious fauna or because they belong to forces not in the fight.
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I think it may be a hit amongst the casual gamers.
O_o o_O
I concur that WAR was built on a broad scope, just as WoW was. They want to hit everyone from the casual soloers to the hardcore PvP crowd, along with people who have never played an MMO in their lives.
While I haven't made it above 10 yet, the later content just makes me more anxious. It sounds like it tries to place an increasing emphasis on PvP as the game goes on, but you still never *need* to do it. It has crafting to mess around with, though as far as I'm aware, the beta only had three Gathering professions and Apothecary available; I hate potion brewing in most games since I never use 'em, but I spent maybe an hour just messing around with Cultivation to use up my massive hoard of seeds and then turning them into potions. One of them even procced a rare item to create a dye somewhere along the line. Then there's the interesting idea of leveling up your capital city, though I believe that's related to PvP content too. And let's not forget just messing around with Tome of Knowledge unlocks.
While WAR's specialty is PvP, and I hear at this time it's the only thing to really do at endgame, it's by no means a specialty game in itself.
It will be #2 behind WoW.
It is really a very good game.
With lots for everyone.
And an easy entry into PvP for PvE players.
WAR will eclipse all other games, except for WoW.
Which has a 3 year headstart.
No problem though, plenty of room for WoW, LotRO, EQ2 etc.
Good Hunting
In one of the videos by Paul (I think) he is talking about the foundation that WAR is built around. Basically he emphasizes the game is in a constant state of war and the idea was to pick up a weapon and fight to survive or just get slaughtered, and from there the game was built. Basically I think the PvE mechanics are alot of fun, but I really think the game was built on RvR.
For instance from 1-10 did you ever step foot in an instance dungeon? Most of the grouping and big loot pve stuff came from the fun of PQ raids. Also the fact that the game has a whole npc for Renown gear starting at the very first Rank and renown level gives you another route of gear.
Will there be places to stop and smell the flowers, I'm really not sure, even the capital cities will be capable of coming under siege. I think this one is going to play heavily on RvR while leaving PvE elements for storyline and lore. If you ever looked at your tome you'd see they have put mountains of information about everything in there for you to unlock. I also think that the title unlocking will be enjoyable. I've seen some people in beta who have completed a bestiary line and got a cloak to wear for it.
All in all I say give it a try on release if you like, I used to play EQ2 and came here out of curiosity and enjoy this gameplay better, but I played on Nagafen pvp server.
EDIT: Didn't mention many PvE elements, but there seems to be an interesting crafting system to play with. I haven't tried it out myself though. I also think that the game will be friendly to both realms and will try to introduce PvE into the war concepts. Things like the guild levels and rewards will be fun. I'm sure alot of people think it would be neat to have guild tactics, standards, and the like. And again as I said above the PQ system seems to be very popular and encourages people to work together and not be a stranger.
I would also like to mention the guilds that work up their levels will get access to the guild instance where you can meet together with alliances and such. (It's listed as a reward on the levels) They also get a guild teleport (also in the rewards) So maybe that could be a neat place to hang out at as well.
I would say it's niche game. But I think it is going to be a popular niche game.
I'd go farther and say just like every other game in the market--not just MMOs.
The blurring of the line between PvE and RvR is clearly a design goal here. I find it a much more honest approach than the one where you get to PvE for 60 levels and then the game you played (and pressumably liked) for 6 months is over and you may or may not enjoy this new end-game it has morphed into.
Even Mythic's DAoC (at the beginning before there were any battlegrounds) was old-fashioned in the separation of PvE and RvR into things that happened in totally different areas and at different levels. With WAR it's like Mythic is saying "RvR is fun! There's no need to separate it from PvE. Here, we'll show you."
I love the fact that RvR permanent buff rewards happen right from the very beginning of the game. In every MMO I've played, RvR is an end-game thing and you don;t start "training" those perks until then--making them useless for the leveling you are through with. Here those nice buffs to HPs or Int or whatever are yours for the taking early. Same thing with the gear you can get.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
WAR is a game that I enjoy very much. I'm hardcore, when it comes down to it. I love getting way into games, I like to PvP when the PvP is really good, and really the customization what with Renown training and tree specialization and swappable tactics and all that jazz just make me very happy.
My girlfriend has no use for most of that stuff. This is a girl who says 'It'll go away eventually anyway' when I tell her she can buy off her massive death penalty. She doesn't care about systems, she doesn't care that much about most of the things I think really make WAR shine; she likes playing PvE, and she dislikes other people in her games to the point where she doesn't even play with -me- most of the time, and she's yelling and screaming whenever she is.
She's playing PvP now, which is something she's never done.
This game seems like it kind of lets folks who don't like some things about MMOs just kind of come in and do their deal. It seems like there's a lot for everyone, even people who are more Final Fantasy fans than anything else, like my girlfriend. I'm hardcore and I like it. She's so softcore that she stops playing this and goes to Inspector Parker and hunt-n-find Reflexive Arcade games, and she still hops in and enjoys axing people up while her lion chews 'em.
My roommate is one of the best WoW PvPers on the planet, and a friend of mine was literally the number one hunter anywhere in the world. This is a guy who worked at the Domino's near my house and literally posted a video in the forums that got Hunters hotfixed within four hours. He makes suggestions for fixes and the devs either come to the same conclusions or they take his advice; I don't know which, but either way, the fucking guy has pull and brains, and -he- likes it, too.
So there you go. It doesn't seem nichey. From my small personal experience it seems as though it has something for everyone.
I don't see WAR surpassing WoW in numbers. But me personally i love the game. BETA got me thinking of the many hours of DAoC i played and i personally cannot wait for the release.
With that said, i also have had a hard time trying to get my friends whom i have gamed with for 10 years or so to even try WAR. i think that is what you will see with WAR. i believfe WAR will be a solid #2 behind WoW but isn't going to touch those numbers. which is fine with me other then i realize more customers, more money to do exciting things down the road.
But yes it will be a niche game, but like someone said above, all MMO's are niche games anyways
Some clarifications: I didnt mean niche in the sense of "played by only few". I have no idea how many will play it, since many features live and die by the players and NEED players to attend to them - like the famous Public Quests. I meant niche in the sense of the target audience, those who loved Planetside and loved to loose themselves in PVP battles for ages.
What IMVPO WAR is underdeveloped is everything that is NOT war, the social, the crafting, the player hubs where you meet and greet, the housing, all those less warlike features which make other MMOs worlds contrary to WAR who merely is a huge battlefield as I see it. A great and fun to partake battlefield, but that "whole world simulation" games like EQ2, VG or WOW created I just do not see yet in WAR. A view by and large shared by the Eurogamers review, to whom I fully agree. They rated WAR 8/10, which I agree with a big BUT. Which is more or less what I said, too.
www.eurogamer.net/article.php
Another thing I am over the fence is this carrot-hook nosing gameplay, like LOTRO. You are always led to Disneyland-like themeparks. Sure, you always have something to do, but with the very linear layout, it lacks the world-feeling I have in a game like Vanguard. I always feel like led with a carrot in WAR, and there is zero reason ever to go back to where you were before. I enjoy WAR atm, but I am not sure how those things will limit the fun to playing the game 2-3 months and then go away.
Sorry to dissapoint you but WOW is the biggest linear game atm. available + VG is also still a themepark game. They are not simulators or sandbox games ( sandbox is less then a virtual simulator because you don't wanna play a simulator, trust me, that get's old) i think what you want is a combination of both. Sandbox and linear. Unfortunately, WAR is a themepark game, just like all other generic mmo's to date.
Vanguard feels more open because things are random , however , it is not a sandbox because you cannot affect the world.
EVE by example is a sandbox mmo and DFO , ER,Fallen earth and mortal online ( upcoming mmo's) are sandbox games to.
WAR is a themepark game 100%.
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the old days, the days of gold.
representer of euhporium, shade/amity , high member of the council.
played
UO,M59,EVE,L2,AC,GW,WOW,LOTRO,SWG pre cu/nge,COH/COV, VG,TR,L1, POTBS,Neocron 1 and 2, DAOC pre TOA and age of conan
playing: EVE ONLINE
Waiting for Earthrise, FE, bioware mmo, guild wars 2, DFO , mortal online , the chronicles of spellborn
There's so many stupid comments in this post that I'm not going to touch them.
WAR is a niche RvR game - its DAoC2 plain and simple. It appeals to people who would play DaoC if it didnt have the same graphics as quake1. People wanting an intense PvE game will be dissappointed and people wanting WoW will be dissappointed and struggle to make the comparison once they're actually played the game.
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Note: PlayNC will refuse to allow you access to your account if you forget your password and can't provide a scanned image of the product key for the first product you purchased..... LOL
I always said Warhammer would be kind of a niche game, as the OP highlighted, WAR focus mainly in RVR, marginalising all other aspects of a MMO.
The majority of players will play it for not more than 3 months, after that the population of War will decrease steadily.
It will still have a good customer base but not anywhere near WoW.
WoW, like it or not is the complete MMO. You can do anything you want to do, although no feature is the best out there.
WoW is a Jack of all trade, and that's why it is so succesfull.
Warhammer does RvR excellently, but there is nothing else besides that.
What I see in Warhammer Online is unique because it is a niche game that functions well as a generalist game.
Mythic has pionerred the "realm versus realm" approach to PvP, and what we see in Warhammer Online is an incredibly detailed implementation of it. This is probably the most advanced implementation of MMORPG PvP implementation to be found anywhere.
And yet...
The way they ease players into it makes me think that even a PvE player would be able to participate and enjoy it.
The thing is, I played DAOC but I never became involved in Realm versus Realm because all that PvP overhead is more than I can usually deal with. Leave me the hell alone, I'm grinding XP over here.
I played Warhammer Online and suddenly I can enjoy the PvP. The way they entice me into it with the easy access to scenarios has made me a PvP believer where, in most MMORPGs, I'd steer clear of what's just a poorly implemented grief-fest.
So, again, what we have here is not a specialty/niche game nor a generalist game, but rather a specialty/niche game that can function as a generalist game.
Remarkably, it does this without diminishing the potency of its niche.
There's so many stupid comments in this post that I'm not going to touch them.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
1) Social concerns and player hubs - you've got your whole realm to take care of... not to mention the capital cities that level and advance through your and your realm mates' efforts. What else could you ask for?
2) linearity... the game has a radically different structure once you enter T3 and especially T4. It is a completely different ball-game there. Three parallel battlefronts to take care of requiring realm-wide coordination. The vast majority of content is conditionally available exclusively through concentrated player action encompassing the whole server. That's very far from your linear EQ themeride thing.
Yes, it is a niche. So what? Trying to stir up trouble where there isn't any.
They have a goal in mind, 500,000 subscribers as the break even point. It looks like they are in a position to get that. 6 years ago, 500,000 subs would be massive. It's only when looking at the current market that 500,000 is too small.
I wish them the best.
Loving the game so far, Few bugs but thats what Beta is about getting those bug reports in and sorting them out before it goes live, is it a niche game ? who knows only time will really tell, but for me its the most fun I've had since SWG (pre CU)
I think niche, although mainstream niche. I think like Tabula Rasa.
I think Yunbei hit the nail on the head. Great job Yunbie! I am an old WoW player and was really looking forward to trying this game.
The RVR and PVP is terribly fun, I love how you can jump right into it from level 1 and gain a kind of "rep", drops, and exp all in one go! Nice work with that idea Warhammer people.
BUT, I really enjoy PVE too and all this constant war stuff is getting on my nerves a bit and I have only been playing a few weeks. I long for a relaxing farming session just me and some poor mob type strolling around a beautiful peaceful landscape. I MISS a changing landscape as well. The different areas seem to all look the same. I know though that they wanted to stay true to the Warhammer lore so I guess Peacefull fields of purple and blue grass are not going to happen in this game.
I miss farming for drops. So far in questing Im just getting tons of seeds and animal parts. When a valueable item does drop and it's usable I find my appearance does not change at all when I equip it. 8 levels on my current class experiment with a rune priest and I look exactly the same as when I started. I can dye the dress i have, a nice thing, but it's the same old dress no matter what and every other Dwarf female has it.
The Tome is fabulous, I expected it to make PVE fun but even the great innovation that is the Tome cannot overcome the annoying ever-present depressing war environment. Im going to stick with it a bit longer just for the sake of the Tome. I WANT to like this game if only because of the tome.
Crafting seems interesting. They had some great ideas with that as well. I love how they added "discoveries" to all the crafting professions.
There is a lot to admire in this game, they had some really great ideas, It MAY grow into a PVP lovers ultimate game but at the moment it is a little to war-torn to relax in. NOT for everyone. They did such a great job though...I wonder if we can talk them into making a more PVE game for us?
Other Major grip: To many quest hubs and NO WAY to get from hub to hub but walk? You can fly to other warcamps but there is only one warcamp per race i think? Look to do quite a bit of walking.
Favorite things: They are wonderful with their customers, They really obviously thought a lot about how to motivate PVP and PVE players. They saw the gaps that other games didn't cover and did a really smash up job of filling those giving this game unique aspects that were saddly lacking until now. Also the guild tools are amazing too! They did so many things that WoW players have been begging for for years its downright sad. Im rooting for this game, It may not be for me but it ROCKS! Try it.
This is exactly why I say WAR is an easy game. The only true challenge in this game is trying to suck at it, which is nearly impossible. That is why people will love it.
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"Fixed it. Because that wall of text attacked me, killed me and looted my body..."
-George "sniperg" Light
This is exactly why I say WAR is an easy game. The only true challenge in this game is trying to suck at it, which is nearly impossible. That is why people will love it.
QFT
Lol.