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The Flow of Battle: Tips for Melee DPS Players
jzuska
Member Posts: 418
Reposted from an earlier fellow. All credit to Duty.
After spending much time on the Marauder, and getting killed while trying to run down ranged characters, I've started to notice a certain "flow" to most group vs group encounters in this game, and learning this flow I've come to, in my opinion, be very successful in most RvR encounters. I share here with melee beta testers as too often I see them suiciding into a zerg and getting nothing done. This mini-guide is specifically made for MDPS (melee DPS: the Marauder, Witch Elf, Witch Hunter, and White Lion) that are in a pug situation, although tanks could easily get a few pointers out of it too.
Before I get to the beefiest part of this mini-guide, let me give a few basic tips which supercede the things I have to say:
Vital Tips:
1. Healers are your lifeline. For myself, the difference in having a healer is having a tier 1 game of 8-16k damage vs a game with 25-40k damage. Healing is vital to every melee on the field. We're the most likely to get hit as tab target hits us first.
2. Never run strait into the zerg unless all the melee run in together. You will get tab targeted and focused down unless there are other melee (especially a shield tank) to absorb part of the damage for you. Running in all together is very effective, but takes some coordination that most pug groups aren't willing to display.
3. See who others are focusing, and assist in damaging their target.
4. Resists are your most important stat. Stack them over strength, weapon skill, toughness, anything. As a melee DPS your primary role is axing ranged guys, and they won't like to see you coming. (Keep in mind that even archer types use many skills that are reduced in damage by stacking resists).
5. Always maintain what we call "situational awareness." This is basically being aware of your surroundings. Very often it is wise to pan your camera around to check if you're about to be flanked, or what your enemy is about to do. Don't get too caught up in the frenzy of battle.
The Flow: How a Normal Battle Takes Place:
Two armies come across the field, both sides anxious to spill the blood of mortal enemies, when after what seems like a lifetime of waiting they clash...in a fury of spells and swords they tangle until one emerges victorious...
There is, however, a method to the madness and chaos of battle. There are 3 distinct stages in a battle, and understanding these stages is key to success as a melee class. We don't have the luxury of sitting back safely, and running to the zerg to kill a ranged character is often suicide...as we're focus fired and killed so fast that often our healers can't even keep up.
Stage 1: The Skirmish
When 2 armies first meet, melee are at their weakest. There are many people that can easily tab target you and kill you before your healers (if you have any!) are able to help you. It is during this period that you must be most careful. It is never wise to go chasing kills into the enemy zerg during this phase. Instead, let your ranged teammates do most of the work. They can pick at the enemy players from a safe distance until the enemy melee get antsy enough to charge forth. See, you're already playing like a master: you're letting kills come to you, on your territory, instead of chasing them.
Don't get too excited yet, in this stage it is required for your ranged teammates to do their part and out maneuver the enemy. You're looking to weaken the enemy little by little at this point...and having ranged players to pick at them little by little is perfect for the skirmish type warfare. So, defend those ranged guys! Throw a snare on those foolish melee charging them, and proceed to dps them as much as possible. Even if they're a tank, they're the safest thing to beat on, and with many ppl focusing them, they'll go down eventually.
Stage 2: Mid-Battle
After most, and ideally all, the enemy melee are dead or otherwise preoccupied, it's your time to shine. You have 2 options here, and it will depend on if you can avoid attention or are already under some fire. Always keep in mind that as a melee DPS, you're a hit and run type...be prepared to get out of a bad situation with all your escape moves and detaunts when things go bad.
If you can avoid attention, and are unlikely to be killed, you're in a VERY ideal spot to rampage through the enemy backline. The true danger in stage 1 is not that the ranged will focus you, but that the more patient melee AND ranged will focus you. Remember how I said resists are your most important stat? This is why...because you're going to be in the backline against casters. My marauder, with a shaman or zealot buffing me, has (on the character sheet) 90% or more to all resists. I doubt that will last much longer due to balance issues (and I don't think I even get 90% damage reduction, it just says that on the character sheet). 50% is good and will ensure your survival in most situations once you get the hang of it.
When you aren't going to draw attention of enemy melee, and decide it's a good time to charge the back line...do it from a flank. Don't charge through the middle of battle, they'll see you and you WILL draw attention. The order of who to kill first: squishy healers first (Archmage/Shaman, then RP/Zealot), then Squig Herders/Shadow Warriors depending on your faction, then casters. Be prepared to retreat if things get ugly...you should get at least 1 kill if you waited for a good moment, but you should retreat well before you're in danger of dying. Use detaunts and sprints to quickly get out of harm's way.
If you will attract attention, your gameplan has to change a bit. Either you are already getting hit, or have to cross the middle of the field and can't safely get to the casters in time. In this case, keep killing melee/defending your casters, or get behind a tank that happens to charge the caster line. You just have to be more cautious.
In either case, be very careful not to overextend out of your healer range. Don't go chasing kills when there are plenty more back closer to your support! 
Stage 3: End Game
By this time, one side usually has shown dominance and will clean up. Feel more free to be aggressive and run your enemies off the field, using snare when you notice them use Flee (or Charge! if you have it and need it to catch up). Still, keep your awareness and don't chase too much or it'll bite you without you expecting it. Be very wary of chasing into guards. It's frustrating dealing with guard huggers, but don't play on their terms...leave the area and help capture/defend another objective.
If both sides are relatively even still, then it's going to come down to focus fire. See who everyone else is hitting, and pick who is going to die quickest...then kill them. Overextending and staying behind tanks doesn't play nearly as big a role at this stage, as melee can't be killed quickly enough due to a lot of dps being dead. Just keep your focus fire, and play your best small group vs group game...because that is what this situation truly involves doing.
I hope you, the reader, have learned a trick or 2 here. A true master lets those kills come to him, he doesn't waste the energy and risk being destroyed by chasing kills. He patiently waits for the right moment, using cover and flanking for safety, to strike at casters at the right time. Happy hunting!
Comments
Interesting take on the stages of battle. different maps work different ways, but in open world PvP at least this seems like exactly how it works. the only part I disagree with is your kill order. shamans and archmages are near impossible to kill on your own because well, they didn't make healers pushovers in WAR. when fighting a well organized group I agree, Kill healers first. but when fighting a PuG, I suggest taking out nukers first, then squig/white lions.
Reason here is that in PuGs, healers will always heal themselves, but only sometimes heal their allies. attacking a healer means they will heal themselves and from playing my archmage, I know for a fact I can outheal any 1-2 players who are similar level to me. but if you attack a nuker who may already be hurting themself, the odds are pretty high you can score a kill before a healer notices who is dying. and those nukers HURT, so getting them out of the fight quick can really help.
Other than that, very informative post.
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i didnt write it it's a repost from beta. The bottom line is melee needs healers, and tanks need to guard healers/melee dps. Everyone works together in a cohesive unit.
i've seen it look like this on the battlefield
Healers
Ranged
Melee
Tanks
Tanks
Melee
Ranged
Healers
In fact, this is the optimal solution, most of the time. Healers have the greatest range 150 yards, follwed by ranged at 100 and melee/tanks with the shortest.
Thats only for non-melee healers right? What about WP or DoK?
Purpose in life is not to gain things, but experience. - Rover64dd
Melee healers are a different beast. I'd put them in the second row with the melee dps, since anytime they are on the front line they are target number 1. They may be close to the same survivabiltity as a tank (with fair gear/armor and heals), but since they are a healer, you will be focused on within seconds.
I actually know all these things at the back of my mind but when your team mates are being all squigly you just go " Oh what the heck" and run into battle because you know you're not there to stand around and wait to get hurt. Either way very informative post, if only i had an NPC healer that i could call upon at anytime my swordmaster would be unstoppable.
This is not a game.
Best advice i can give is please dont play melee classes, roll a nuker or healer like the rest of the pvpers! The reason destruction is the new alliance is the horrible composition of player classes, namely all the witchelves,mauraders,and chosen running around doing nothing uselful. Until people stop playing these classes in pvp Order will continue to dominate despite having fewer numbers. If you really want to play a close combat class play the disciple or warpriest, both good classes.
OP,
This sounds exactly like DAoC's RvR. I can hardly wait.
Tab target doesn't target nearest first. This is one thing in the game that I find to be pretty messed up and in need of fixing.
Tab target doesn't target nearest first. This is one thing in the game that I find to be pretty messed up and in need of fixing.
This is because TAB targeting cycles you throw available opponents. There's is also a command to target the nearest enemy, I believe N is the default hotkey. If you wished, you could simply switch these around and make TAB the hotkey for target nearest.
Tab target doesn't target nearest first. This is one thing in the game that I find to be pretty messed up and in need of fixing.
This is because TAB targeting cycles you throw available opponents. There's is also a command to target the nearest enemy, I believe N is the default hotkey. If you wished, you could simply switch these around and make TAB the hotkey for target nearest.
Thank you, I did not know that.
to start, I have a key pending for beta, but apparently i got it inputted just after an invite wave...
I'm slightly disappointed that my planned witch elf class may have difficulty keeping up in PvP, but as an experienced mdps player (from AC through scrapper in CoH to rogue in WoW) I'm hoping that I can pull it off without too much difficulty. I simply find that the most fun is to be had by being right up close and personal ripping into sombody, makes for more fast paced gameplay then sitting back nuking or healing.
Shil, the witch is wicked and I don't think you'll have any problem in RvR with her. I've played most classes in RvR and they were all fun to me and had their advantages and disadvantages, i saw no one class or type who owns overall. I've played both Order and Destruction and having an overwhelming amount of melee compared to ranged sure didn't stop the melee from gaining a upper hand in my opinion, but I'm guessing that will balance out in the end anyways.
Most classes seem fairly balanced and even in RVR or Scenarios if you use a little strategy and plan to your strengths. Two classes though, seem to be overpowered still. These are the Bright Wizard (ranged nuker dps killing machine from hell) and the Iron Breaker. The first is obvious; Mr. you get two or three of the Bright Wizards behind the melee folks and even the baddest tanks (Chosen or Black Orc) get whooped in a couple of spell attacks. The Iron breaker just seems unkillable if he has ANY healing support at all. Ya beat him down, he gets pinged with a heal or two and runs back t othe line. Maybe it balances a little more (or gets worse) at higher tiers but at tier 1 these two are the clear choices for Order PVP most effective classes. I think a little too effective a this point.
Tab target doesn't target nearest first. This is one thing in the game that I find to be pretty messed up and in need of fixing.
This is because TAB targeting cycles you throw available opponents. There's is also a command to target the nearest enemy, I believe N is the default hotkey. If you wished, you could simply switch these around and make TAB the hotkey for target nearest.
Thank you, I did not know that.
Something I figured out very quickly. I remapped 'Nearest' to TAB and 'Next target' to F. Has worked well for me.
Very good posts, love all the tips. I'll be rolling a BO so this all helps me to understand priorities on the battlefield, thz )
The Hammerfist Clan
Tab target doesn't target nearest first. This is one thing in the game that I find to be pretty messed up and in need of fixing.
This is because TAB targeting cycles you throw available opponents. There's is also a command to target the nearest enemy, I believe N is the default hotkey. If you wished, you could simply switch these around and make TAB the hotkey for target nearest.
Thank you, I did not know that.
You can do the same for friendlies. It works well for my warrior priest if your in a scenario or a pq and not in a formal group. I map it to the ~ button so I can cycle both targets types easily.
If there is an easier way please let me know... the WP is a lot of work when not in a formal group
after reading everyones input i cant wait to play my Black Orc, RvR going to be better than DAoC's every was. and thats saying something since the rvr there was amazing
thanks
Very nice start to playing a melee DPS. However, there is one key element that isn't really being discussed here. Depending on this key element, in addition to your healers, the 'flow' of battle can and does change dramatically from situation to situation.
- What I'm referring to are Tanks.
When a fight first breaks out, it is the tanks who determine the flow of battle. Similar to the tanks, the melee DPS should be paying attention to both:
A) What the tanks are doing.
&
Melee DPS, when a battle first is breaking out, has to be aware enough of his/her surroundings to make a split-second decision to:
A) Stay back, wait for the enemy to come to them, protect squishies (killing players before they can take out their ally squishies)
-or-
**Note:
not all melee DPS will do (A) or (B) in the same way, as some (marauder / white lion) have higher survivability than others (witch elf / hunter). Because of this, some melee dps classes may choose to 'ghost' (lag slightly behind) the melee players infront of them, or try flanking maneuvers (either defensively, or offensively).
This is still just a preliminary strategy, that I find helps in most situations (at least against PUGs). Against organized groups is an entirely different matter.
nice strats, ill try them in different games
This tends to be the way that it goes in RvR games - the people with the most situational awareness generally live longer. The ones who haven't realized that all of their allies are now 10 steps behind them are pretty much always the ones who get owned. Good reason to use the zoom feature.
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Only thing I can say about charging in to do aoe is start it off with a detaunt, and don't use concussion jolt right off the bat. What happens is everyone notices you right away and tab targets. Run in off the sides like your flanking so you don't get attention right away, start of with MoT then do a couple of demolitions, once you're being noticed and you see casters facing you seeming to be ready to attack...NOW hit concussion jolt, and start wailing on them with AoE.
Now If you don't see any heals being thrown your way, detaunt and start running back to the group, do this unless you feel like you can hurt the enemy enough where they'll be turning around to run away.
Remember if there are tanks in your group let them run in 1st, watch to see how many opponents are focusing fire on them, then do your job by entering the fight to assist.
And finally, always keep your eyes on your healers. And don't ever let any mele get on them.
It is definetly unfortunate that they didnt think much about melee and the renown points that you got while doing damage. Melee classes got a little jipped form the get go on this.
mmmmm dmg is the way to go...as a Marauder just roll monstrosity... use demolition, an aoe skill, and run through a big group, just keep punching the skill and u will rack up the dmg. u dont even really need to target, just find the closest light armored char and hit him and everything around him u will see dmg popping up everywhere...thats the lazy mans way.... easy exp...game over...
Oh Well done for resurrecting a YEAR OLD THREAD.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
The only tips in this game is fight when you are outnumbered your opponents.
As a witch hunter lv27, you will never able to win 1 vs 1 with a Destruction tank even 2-3 levels lower than you. In this game, there are food chain theory, A beats B, and B beats C something like that.
People playing Orders are free people with free will and most of the guild claimed themseoves as casual, friendly. And I never seen a Order guild use teamspeak/ventrilo or other voice software in game. Destruction may used teamspeak to play in the game and they are limited freedom in gameplay.
If you want to make a uber guild, choose Orders, your guild would be dominant in Warhammer.