Group Deaths

dsorrent · October 2004

I was just thinking about the death system with EQ2 and how you share your debt with your team. I think this is a good idea, however, I can already see it now that people will be monitoring the health of their team mates and if someone gets low on health, some players will drop out of the group so they don't get any penalty. I wonder if the devs took this into consideration or if you can't disband from your group in a locked encounter? What if someone logs off in the middle of the battle, do they still share the debt?

Just some things I've been thinking about..

Billius8 · October 2004

Originally posted by dsorrent

I was just thinking about the death system with EQ2 and how you share your debt with your team. I think this is a good idea, however, I can already see it now that people will be monitoring the health of their team mates and if someone gets low on health, some players will drop out of the group so they don't get any penalty. I wonder if the devs took this into consideration or if you can't disband from your group in a locked encounter? What if someone logs off in the middle of the battle, do they still share the debt?

Just some things I've been thinking about..

The group death penalty, in my opinion, breaks more things than it fixes. Sure, a player not doing his job can get another player killed. However, I find that most folks who die in game pretty much do so from not paying attention. The group penalty may push folks away from grouping with unknown players.

Perhaps EQ2 will start out with this rule, then nerf it out in a patch if it proves disruptive.

jimhus · October 2004

Originally posted by Billius8

The group death penalty, in my opinion, breaks more things than it fixes. Sure, a player not doing his job can get another player killed. However, I find that most folks who die in game pretty much do so from not paying attention. The group penalty may push folks away from grouping with unknown players.
Perhaps EQ2 will start out with this rule, then nerf it out in a patch if it proves disruptive.

Last I read, it was an option for the group: not mandatory.

Has this changed?

aeric67 · October 2004

Option? Keep it or leave it, don't make it a toggle.

That's like those people that tell radar-haters to just turn it off. If it's necessary in the context of gameplay, then why should I turn it off? If it's not necessary, then why have it in the first place?

seouls · October 2004

One thing I was wondering is do dead players get extra debt as more of their group dies off? Sure its fair that way but if your dead there is nothing you could do to save a mate from bitting it. Also if you have a compleat wipe then thats debtx6? Or would it be like one solo death in that case?

I do be leave that the group pent is manditory though I could be wrong.

Xira · October 2004

Originally posted by seouls
One thing I was wondering is do dead players get extra debt as more of their group dies off? Sure its fair that way but if your dead there is nothing you could do to save a mate from bitting it. Also if you have a compleat wipe then thats debtx6? Or would it be like one solo death in that case?
I do be leave that the group pent is manditory though I could be wrong.

Actually, IF dead players do not get extra debt, then being the last one to die will be _WORSE_ than solo death.

Say there's a group of 3 people...1st one pops like a baloon. LastGuy gets 1/3 debt. 2nd the cleric falls over, lastguy gets 1/2 solo exp debt. Now Lastguy himself dies, and he gets full exp debt for solo dieing. Brining his debt total up to almost 2X a solo death....Several times the debt of the first guy to die.

Giveing the dead more debt is the only way to make it fair:)

jimothypetro · October 2004

There isn't a toggle for it, right now it is mandatory.

Also, you're right, dead people do get XP debt if their group dies.

The only problem with this is that if you invite someone, and they die trying to get to you, everyone gets XP debt. Overall I think it is a good system, though.

And last I checked you could leave a group while in a battle, but that was ~4 patches ago.

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"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
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IowaYeti · October 2004

very interesting topic, thx to all for the info... can't wait to see what the "dealio" will be at launch.

~Yeti
...Role Player since before D&D had their first hardcover books. (Simple and Advanced Editions rules!)

dsorrent · October 2004

Originally posted by jimothypetro

There isn't a toggle for it, right now it is mandatory.
Also, you're right, dead people do get XP debt if their group dies.
The only problem with this is that if you invite someone, and they die trying to get to you, everyone gets XP debt. Overall I think it is a good system, though.
And last I checked you could leave a group while in a battle, but that was ~4 patches ago.
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"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
-- Ken Olson, chairman of Digital Equipment Corp, 1977

Thanks for the info.. If you get a chance, test that out? Group with some guys, and let one of them die but before they do, drop out of the group and see if you get any debt.. It would be interesting to see... Well, that is if your not some uber level and it will take forever to work off the XP debt..

Thanks!

Aeonsoul · October 2004

From what I understand of the group xp debt share, debt is split in relation to a normal solo death. For example, you're in a full party of 6 players. One person dies, so everyone gets an xp debt that is 1/6 of a normal single person's SOLO xp debt. If all 6 party members die, everyone shares a normal SOLO xp debt for one death.

I'll put it in numbers if this helps any. Let's say a normal debt for a level 20 character who is hunting solo is 1000xp when they die. When that person is in a full group of 6 and they die, they get 1/6 of 1000xp as their debt, so their debt would be 167xp. Not only would the person who died get the 167xp debt, but the entire party would. So in effect all they are doing is spreading the debt over the 6 party members instead of one person being solely responsible for the debt. If all 6 people in the party die all at once, or in succession then the full debt of 1000xp is given to the entire party.

Personally, I like the idea. People should now be much more concerned about keeping their party alive if they want to make any progress and this will give everyone much more incentive to do their jobs properly. If they don't do their jobs properly, people simply won't group with them.

gruempy · October 2004

One thing I was wondering is do dead players get extra debt as more of their group dies off? Sure its fair that way but if your dead there is nothing you could do to save a mate from bitting it. Also if you have a compleat wipe then thats debtx6? Or would it be like one solo death in that case?

As far as I have read, debt works like this:

When a player dies an amount of debt is created. The player who died takes half of that debt which can be reduced with a rez. The other half is split evenly amongst the group and can not be reduced with a rez.

So the player that dies in a group of 6 ends up with 7/12th of the debt while everyone else ends up with 1/12th.

If every in the party wiped then the above player would have their 7/12th from there death plus 5 time 1/12 from everyone else resulting in full debt from one death (as with everyone else).

dsorrent · October 2004

Originally posted by Aeonsoul

From what I understand of the group xp debt share, debt is split in relation to a normal solo death. For example, you're in a full party of 6 players. One person dies, so everyone gets an xp debt that is 1/6 of a normal single person's SOLO xp debt. If all 6 party members die, everyone shares a normal SOLO xp debt for one death.
I'll put it in numbers if this helps any. Let's say a normal debt for a level 20 character who is hunting solo is 1000xp when they die. When that person is in a full group of 6 and they die, they get 1/6 of 1000xp as their debt, so their debt would be 167xp. Not only would the person who died get the 167xp debt, but the entire party would. So in effect all they are doing is spreading the debt over the 6 party members instead of one person being solely responsible for the debt. If all 6 people in the party die all at once, or in succession then the full debt of 1000xp is given to the entire party.
Personally, I like the idea. People should now be much more concerned about keeping their party alive if they want to make any progress and this will give everyone much more incentive to do their jobs properly. If they don't do their jobs properly, people simply won't group with them.

This is my understanding as well. I'm just curious if just before 1 of the 6 dies, someone drops out making it a 5 party group. Now is the death 1/5th and distributed to the 5 people or does it keep track of who was involved from the start of the battle.

Loneshadow · October 2004

I like the idea. Tanks take the most risk and its only far they all share in his death.

If someone drops from group before someone dies will start finding it hard to find a group at all.

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Loneshadow<Supreme Dragon>
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