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A few basic Career reviews
Yunbei
Member Posts: 898
Ok, this is very basic stuff, mostly dedicated to those who havent been in any beta or who are unsure what to roll. I solely played Order classes (I will call them classes as any bloke likely will), and just briefly tested Destro classes, so I cant say about them.
BRIGHT WIZARD: That was my first class, because like many I thought it was cool to blast fire around. It sure looks cool, and in PVE you will be quite strong. If you enjoy BW in PVP depends entirely on one sole factor: at what time do you play? A BW is only useful with a BIG group of people. Sure, he can be helpful somewhat in small groups, but in PVP you will usually be targetted VERY fast by the enemy, because you stand out more than any other class, and they know you are dead with 2 good hits. So you NEED a high tolerance towards dying. I got the impression that the high vulnerability is not really balanced by the damage or overall RVR impact, so he LOOKS strong but in real I didnt find him so strong, quite on the contrary - at least if Destro knows how to play, BW is not really that decisive in large battles. Its really more the fancy effect. If you play in times with many on, you will have a blast, but if you prefer to play at odd times you can FORGET PVP at all with the BW.
WITCH HUNTER: I must admit the WH felt even more useless in PVP than the BW. Imagine you are a Rogue without a real stealth, then you have Witch Hunter. You do good dmg, but you have to get close, and like BW you need a big tolerance against much death. I find the Witch Hunter a bit more useful in RVR, because he stands a bit longer, but his bíg damage is all with gathering accusation over time, and you need to be able to handle good timing. I didnt find the gameplay as remarkable as the name hints, and quite a letdown tbh.
WARRIOR PRIEST: I felt the WP was the most robust healing class, meaning he can stand against enemies longer since he is almost a tank. The downside is, most heals need toi gather "zeal" (I played the German version, not sure how its called in English). You create "zeal" by attacking, so unlike the other healers, you MUST fight in the front line to gather the "zeal" points to heal! You cant stay back like other healers. Its a good class, but the coordination between attacking, healing others AND healing yourself is quite a lot to do.
IRONBREAKER: This is the most easy to play, straightforward class. He is a tank. Sure you can put "grudges" on your teammates, but you must be grouped, which often in open RVR is not the case. I guess it is the strongest tank of Order, considerably stronger and easier to play than the Swordmaster. There is only one downside: its a Dwarf. 
RUNE PRIEST: The Rune Priester is the Dwarven Healer; he can also dish out ok demage. IMO he is not as weak in combat as the Elven Archmage, but not that strong than the Warrior Priest. Personally I found this my favourite Healer Class, he had the best survivability of the three Healers as I played them. Like the Ironbreaker he is a robust and easy to play class, no pools or balance issues to take care of, just dish out heals. Easy to play.
ENGINEER: The Engineer is the Dwarven damage dealer. I didnt play him a lot, so take it with a grain of salt. He is neat. The best thing about him is, he can place defense turrets, so a hand full of them might defend a path or a strategic point, which makes them very valuable in PVP - that is IF your side is coordinating their doings! Overall nothing fancy, but ok. No real stengths or downsides.
ARCHMAGE: This is the Elven healer, and IMO the strongest when it comes to the heals themselves, but most vulnerable when someone gets toe to toe with you. Archmages have a balance-o-meter, which imo made the healing and everything a bit tricky. In the heat of a battle it may be difficult to watch all those balancing influences, and I dont like to stare at my icon and balance-meter all the time. You need a good concentration to play him well, but if you do, he is the strongest healer out there for Order.
SWORD MASTER: This is the Elven tank, tho I felt he was more a crossover between tank and damage dealer. No matter if you use 2handed sword or 1hand and shield, he was dead much faster than the ironbreaker. Also all of his attacks are build in three phases. You need to follow them, and in phase one you only do phase one attacks, in phase 2 only phase 2 attacks and so with 3. I was unable to reach a point where I could do this without staring at the icon bar, so I think this is the worst Order class IMO. It needs HIGH concentration and the output in dmg and tanking skill is sub par even when you do it well. Besides for the fancy feeling I cant recommend this class. If you wanna tank you are stuck with Ironbreaker in my book.
SHADOW WARRIOR: Archer, why cant they just call him Archer? Its an Elf and a damage dealer, and one of the best. He does damage like the Bright Wizard but does not die so fast than the BW. I felt he was way superior to BW, but the animations of the ranged combat are boring and trash. He is however the best DPS class of order since he also survives close combat if need be.
WHITE LION: This is Order's pet class, a guy with medium close combat skills and a pet. Along the higher levels you can built either your pet up, yourself or build both your pet and yourself balanced. The good thing in PVP is, you are likely the last to be targetted and usually underestimated. To be really useful you need to go along with your pet, but I found that even the pet alone can help turn a battle, if you for instance send it against some healer who then is distracted a while or along with your pet defend the healer and damage dealers in the backline when some Orc or Squiq breaks through. Its a very versatile class, where you can fight from afar and close up. I was surprised it was such fun to play, and I can recommend this class. The only slightly annoying thing was the constant running noise of the pet, and I hope they allow us to deactivate that at will. (Also there is no working "call back" I found. Once you send off the pet you cant call it back, at least the button which indicates it, does not work. Dunno if thats intended or going to change, but its annoying as it is.)
In the end you must chose a class which you enjoy to play, not what is fancy. Keep in mind, this is entirely my personal experience.
Comments
Thanks for review..always nice to get other people's input. The white lion is fun but the pet was driving me nuts. The way I called him back was hotkey passive so after he attacks ..hit passive and he seems to break away. Of course all commands seem a little less responsive than they should be.
I didn't see any of the problems you had with Swordmaster, but then again I haven't played an Ironbreaker.
Though, I have played a Chosen and my only complaint is that I like both of them so much I can't just pick one for live.
For the stance attacks, it's only three stances/tiers of abilities. You really don't have to look at the icons. Just do one attack, then the next, then the next. Put your most commonly used "default" string on 1-3 and then add in flavor or situational skills (like the snare) on 4 or 5 or whereever. As long as you've got the AP to burn you can permanently have the +25% parry up which is a huge bonus against all melee. I simply never felt that squishy in PVE or PVP so long as I had something to hit to keep the parry buff up.
Simply put: there are two kind of classes, those who need to coordinate ther attacks, like balance or combustion, and classes who dont have such concepts. In PVP hurry I found those without just much easier to play.
And BW is just way overhyped. He is fun to play yes, but FAR from having that impact in RVR as claimed. Thats just my impression however.
Very well written, well done.
MAGA
Thumbs up
thank you, this will be very helpfull when chosing character in headstart..
It's CE headstart tomorrow and I still can't pick a side, let alone a class - which is pretty much related.
The problem is that I've enjoyed more than a few classes on either side: Black Orc and Swordmaster, Disciple of Khaine and Warrior Priest, Shaman and Archmage; Sorceress but not Bright Wizard and then Engineer but not Magus... Now I'm even less sure than I was before beta
saying you cant play swordmaster means 2 things.. im good.. or you suck..
ill stick with first option.. cuz i know i am.. i never stared at that stance icon.. well maybe on lvl 2
when it was new and was like wtf..
i didnt play ironbreaker so i cant compare.. but i was far from pushover.. even if dwarf tank is stronger it will get sorted out in future
and witchunter.. i did play that char as my second highest.. only reason i stoped him.. cuz im more of tank guy.
hes good for pvp. if you atleast smart.. yes if you rush into 5 of them. and LIKE BURN HERETIC . that wont rly work.. chase down healers.. runers.. flank them.. well played hes real battle turner..
You put it in less polite ways that I would, teh. Maybe we have some testosterone poisoning, yes?
Either way, yes, if you are nimble, have very good reaction and all you may use Swordmaster better than I did. But the fact stands you get the same tanking qualities with Ironbreaker without the need to focus on all that stance dancing. Its as good, IMVPO better as tank and easier to play, so what is there to chose??
If you prefer to get the same with more difficult handling, go on, take that Swordmaster. Yes, you can make something of everything, if you are focussed and have quick reaction. I was more speaking from the perspective of the PVP-all-average-guy.
Hehe, I kinda felt the same way...played both, thought both was cool...then I thought, do I want to play someone in a dress or someone in the best-looking armor in the game.
And I came into a conclusion.
*Swordmaster kills Chosen*
*Chosen replies* "At least I die in some really cool armor while you brag about our manhood in a baby-blue dress."
To Crybabies: Uhm...if a game pisses you off, don't play it - duh.
To Crybabies - Part 2: If you want a game to suit all your needs, start off by going to college to become a Game Designer.
Emo User Award: busdriver, for his love of Britney Spears - The Prize - Winning Posts
I guess the Dwarfs will really be the saviour of Order indeeed. One of the things that make or break a RVR battle is the existence/performance of healers more than anything else, mark my words. I had entered a RVR with a Wizard, and we didnt get a foothold. Then I swapped to my Rune Priest, and even tho it was just one healer, it heightened our chances significantly, and I am far from being a good PVPer. Just having some folks LAST can really turn a battle entirely, more than any other class.
For me it was the class I enjoyed PVP the most, which is very funny since Dwarves and Healers both are usually on the bottom on my list, teh. But I was proud that every time I *did* die (which was rarely enough) it was only by half a dozen or more Destro players zerging me at the same time. Didnt dare to cross me unless 5:1 or more, hrhr, and that was a very, very cool experience.
I found Archmage not so fun, but I heard some claim he is very strong. All those taking care of balance kinda irritated me. But maybe I try it again.
Its a good write up.. Only thing I question is that you base RvR effectiveness on how long you survive? I think BW's get targetted so fast because , for the main reason, they hurt like hell... They put fear into the melee ranks from a distance.. Their point in RvR isnt really survival, but to cause as much damage as possible in a single life as they possibly can.. They can burn alot of stuff down in minutes and if alot of them bind together and perhaps "call targets" it is tragedy for the other side as they can pretty much insta kill someone.
I like the way they did the classes in this game because everyone has a role.. They didn't balance it for "solo" pvp.. Its meant to be as a group, and anyone that tries to solo a group at RVR , will find that they are always going to be at a disadvantage and of course die alot...
Very nice class review.......TY
Heh I played a RP and an AM and decided to go wtih the AM, he healed as much as the RP and did 3 times the dmg the way I play.
My point is it is more important to find a class that fits your playstyle than one that other people say is strong.
Warrior Priest does not equal a WoW paladin. They are completely different playstyles. Both are just as challenging in PvP.
WoW pallys cast seals (30 second buffs) and judgements on foes. After that they auto attack and let their passive abilities do most of the damage. Depending on how you spec, you could get 1 or 2 direct attacks you can spam. The WoW pally is focused on healing usually. When people start to die, they stop auto attackign and cast heals with really long cast timers. They have no regen spells. They have invulnerability shields they can cast on themselves or allies. The pallys also come with a large assortment of quick and easy to cast buffs that last a good amount of time and give players a really nice boost in stats.
Warrior Priest is all about setting a defense target and wailing on the enemy to buff your defense target and heal him. They have many regen moves and a few long casting time abilities. You cannot healbot as a WP as you could a WoW paladin. You are not a tank like a WoW paladin. Your DPS is much higher than the standard WoW paladin. Lastly you do not have quick castable buffs to hand out in battle. The Runepriest does that.
My prob with the BW was, on my servers there were plenty more Destro, and with a Destro overhang in open RVR they can just run past the tank line and kill you. They know it, and they know every kill counts for them. If the numbers are equal in a scenario its something different, but in open RVR BW has just way too little survivability once he is focussed. Its a pity, since its a fun class, but just a little bit too much running back from "graveyard" in my book.
Maybe in higher tiers it changes, but I never felt to have a big impact on the battle; I dont understand the nerf BW calls AT ALL. If any change then he needs more crowd control, not less. Maybe a push back like the Aoc-Mitra Priest.
I guess its my personal frustration. BW was my first choice I wanted to play, and I was dead dead dead with it, more than with any other classes.
frankly , i disagree with you on Swordmaster COMPLETELY.
With a 2 hander, i topped the dmg charts almost every single time in scenarios. The only times I would be beaten was by BWs.
heck, i can even prove it.
uploaded a screenie i took: http://uppix.net/4/9/f/88294d57681ddeade94595304e29e.jpg
My name's Goa...you can see i have the most dmg output and that i'm a swordmaster (icon to the left of my nae
oh yeah, and swordmasters get this ability (at rank 16) called 'gusting wind'.... it's an AOE knockback (about 3/4 as potent as the ironbreaker's) which you can spam every 10 seconds.
Swordmasters also get a tactic which adds a knockback effect to your perfect balance attacks as well.
And there's anther ability which you can spam every 5 seconds, which gives you 25% parry.... so if you're using a shield, that about 55% dmg mitigated. Not including resists, morale abilities (a rank 2 one which gives you a 100% block rate for 10 secs) and a blade enchantment which gives a 25% chance to proc a 150 hp shield.............
At rank 32, they get heaven's wings.... which lets you jump 100ft and snare everything within 20 feet. I haven't tried it, as I only got up to level 17, but i think it'll be very useful.
And most importantly, their armour looks sick! Here's a more recent screenie of my char (has an epic sword): http://uppix.net/d/f/6/c64faa6bd08557659477a4b1c42e2.jpg
Thanks for this post. I can always use a llittle more mental fodder for my ever-raging alt-a-holicism.
That said, I'm looking over Yunbei's original post now, and I'm thinking to myself, "wow, this guy still doesn't know how to play." I can't blame him, it's a new game and he hasn't really played it for very long yet. Still, this is just bandying around misinformation: it's misconception correction time!
But first, one thing I should point out is that a lot of Warhammer Onine classes are late blooming class. You don't start out with your core abilities - you won't have them until 10-15 or so. You can look ahead on the trainer, that's what I did, along with reading the official write-ups to better understand these classes. These experiences of mine are tempered with dabbling a bit into these classes and playing alongside them.
BRIGHT WIZARD
Yunbei's impression: Dies a lot, not that influential to PvP.
My impression: Can die a lot if you get in range of too many enemies. Play them from maximum range, focusing fire on targets being attacked by your fellow party members. I've played PvP matches where well-played Bright Wizards make a tremendous difference. These are the most focused damage-dealers on the Force of Order side, and it shows.
WITCH HUNTER
Yunbei's impression: Even less useful than Bright Wizards because they have no stealth and don't do as much damage while not being that much more durable.
My impression: While both Bright Wizards and Witch Hunters are damage doers, Witch Hunters are a bit more diverisified. They have a good variety of debuffs and other effects that can subtly shift the balance of combat. Not for newbies who don't understand the value of debuffs.
WARRIOR PRIEST
Yunbei's impression: Healers who are interesting because they need to fight on the front lines.
My impression: I agree. Interesting things about the Warrior/Priests is that they're actually a combination of healer and tank in one. Unlike the Paladins in WoW, Warrior Priests are fully potency healers.
IRONBREAKER
Yunbei's impression: They're tanks with abilities I didn't get to use because I wasn't grouped.
My impression: Group. Also, I'm pretty sure you can use your oathbound buffs on any friendly faction member, not just those in your current group. Those oathbound abilities are incredibly effective - perhaps even nerf-worthy effective, as two IronBreakers with eachother under oathbound protection are very hard to kill.
RUNE PRIEST
Yunbei's impression: Good healing, okay offense. Weaker than warrior priest, stronger than archmage. Easy to play.
My impression: MMORPGs are about balance, and Mythic is good at making MMORPGs - there's no "weaker" or "stronger" here, just different. All the healers have good healing and okay offense - WO:AR is interestingly balanced that way: everybody can do some damage. Rune Priests do have some sophistication in that you have to consider who gets what kind of rune. Some runes have to be manually activated by the players they are cast on.
ENGINEER
Yunbei's impression: I didn't play them, they look neat, and they have neat defensive power.
My impression; I did play them. Their turrets are more offensive than defensive in nature, though they can distract enemies. Engineers are mostly mid-ranged DPS, best taking down enemies fast with a combination of grenades, turrets, and rifleshot.
ARCHMAGE
Yunbei's impression: Most vulnerable, best healer, have a balance meter but I didn't explain what it did.
My impression: All healers are equally good at healing, the ArchMage tends to favor Healing Over Time. They're an interesting healer implementation in that nuking builds "tranqulity" and healing builds "force" and as soon as you swtich you burn all the points you aquired (up to 5) to make that spell more effectve. So they're basically a healer with an excuse to nuke, and if people whine at you that you weren't healing them constantly you've got a good reason: I was nuking so I could heal you better!
SWORD MASTER
Yunbei's impression: Tank with a funky 3-stage attack thing. I can't recommend him as a Tank.
My impression: Again, there is no 'better" or "worse" - all tanks are equally capable of tanking. The Swordmaster's techniques are a little trickier because they get certain sword enchantments or moves htey can perform that bolster their vulnerability by procing damage shields. They need to execute their attacks in an order of "Normal -> Improved Balanced -> Perfect Balance -> Normal" for optimum efficiency. They don't seem like a very good tank until they pick up some better armor, defensive proc buffs, and defensive moves about level 7ish or so.
SHADOW WARRIOR
Yunbei's impression: He's just an archer, and Bright Wizards do more damage. WTF?
My Impression: You're making the same mistake here as you did with Witch Hunters, and that's not surprisingly considering the Shadow Warrior and Witch Hunter are actually quite similar. They do good damage at range, and can fight in melee, but their real advantage is in using debufs and other effects to tip the tide of battle. The Shadow Warrior in particular has it seared right on their forehead: Their specialty is situational diversity. They switch stances to transform themselves into different roles, and to play a Shadow Warrior well waht you do is be aware of the flow of combat and where you need to be. If you only play them as an archer, you're playing them wrong.
WHITE LION
Yunbei's Impression: Medium range, any-right fighter. Easily underestimated in PvP. Fun.
My Impression: I didn't play this one, but I played alongside them. They're branded as a close range, "Melee DPS" class and that seems to be their forte: sic the pet on somebody, and combine the pet's damage with your long axe to bring the foe down quick. You can send the pet off to fight opponents at long range if you're too afraid to close. Very popular class towards the end of beta, it looks like most agree they're fun to play.
A couple points about swordmaster.
1) It is easy to misjudge their damage because they have a lot of DoTs
2) The shield has a huge effect on survivability
3) SM has a lot more PBAOE than IB
4) Almost all perfect balance attacks take zero AP, therfore the SM can be fairly efficient at chaining attacks very quickly in a long fight.
5) blade enchants are easily overlooked but are very important. They can do a whole lot of things. Abosrb damage, AoE debuffs, cause damage, heal your group etc.
The SM is not great at burst damage and if you want any burst damage to speak of you need to use a ggreatsword, but even then it nothing to write home about. But they are great skirmishers. You can offload tons of snares and DoT and survive to either run away or go guard someone. And in a long fight you do not need to nurse your AP as much as some other classes, so you can continuously do your thing.
My thoughts on Bright Wizard and RvR
* Yes, fragile when alone. But, if backed up by a healer, can down a Tank two levels higher (if the Tank is alone). Healers make all the difference.
* When I stay back, and stay alert, and stay on the move, I survive a lot more. When I stand in one place to get 'my' kill, then I attract a LOT of attention.
* I die by my own hand more than my enemies. Keep forgetting to purge Combustion. And when a 100% Combustion charge blows, it isn't pretty.
* But, at 100% Combustion, my fireballs do a heck of a lot of damage. And, yes, they do attract a lot of attention. But, if the Chaos are all over me, then they are not paying attention to my team-mates. More than once I have died, only to see my attacker(s) fall soon after.
So, have not yet made up my mind on playing the Bright Wizard. As a level 8 PvP newb, I had 80 RvR ungrouped (but with lots of other folks, of course) kills. So, I see this as a very powerfull class. The only thing I would ask is a >little< less of a chance for self-immolation at 100% Combustion.
Good Hunting
Just a note, what I've found was that the Fire Wizard and other similar support classes are far more useful in groups, where they hang back and kind of.. 'snipe' the enemy. Found myself far more effective when attempting to do that.
Other than that, great reviews! Cheers mate!
"BRIGHT WIZARD: That was my first class, because like many I thought it was cool to blast fire around. It sure looks cool, and in PVE you will be quite strong. If you enjoy BW in PVP depends entirely on one sole factor: at what time do you play? A BW is only useful with a BIG group of people. Sure, he can be helpful somewhat in small groups, but in PVP you will usually be targetted VERY fast by the enemy, because you stand out more than any other class, and they know you are dead with 2 good hits. So you NEED a high tolerance towards dying. I got the impression that the high vulnerability is not really balanced by the damage or overall RVR impact, so he LOOKS strong but in real I didnt find him so strong, quite on the contrary - at least if Destro knows how to play, BW is not really that decisive in large battles. Its really more the fancy effect. If you play in times with many on, you will have a blast, but if you prefer to play at odd times you can FORGET PVP at all with the BW."
I couldn't disagree more. I played the Bright Wizard to level 12 (RR11), and once I recieved that smoke shield ability and the other buff that reduces pushback and increases armor, I hardly ever died. It only got easier from there once I recieved the PBAOE snare (firecage I think). I topped the damage charts (and kill charts) in scenarios and never really died at all. I could stand toe to toe with tanks and even marauders and witch elves. Even in the RVR areas I was kicking major butt.
Mind you, I'm not a hardcore player. I struggle with keybinds, and often forget what button to press or activate an ability I shouldn't at the wrong time, but I found if I could just keep my distance and remember to pop my shields I would do just fine. I can't imagine the kind of havoc a skilled player could wreak with this class, and I most definitely beleive that they'll be nerfed some time after the release.
Ok I admit out of frustration from endless dying I stopped playing at level 9 my BW. Maybe with Firecage and other things its better, but he is still a glass cannon.
As to Swordmaster: generally he may be a good tank, BUT: I found myself always staring at the icons to check in what of the three phases I was. I just didnt get a hang of it and always ended up in senseless button mashing. As I said, it needs someone with a good coordination to use its skills fully. I found Ironbreaker MUCH easier to get the same tanking quality, maybe - but that was just my feeling - even a bit better. My Ironbreaker was almost impossible to take down unless by a DOZEN of enemies and I never mastered Swordmaster anything close to that since those phases make it difficult.