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Population Imbalances
Hpnotiq
Member Posts: 64
With my friend in the game, (curse you CE!) I was able to see that Destruction has about a 2:1 ratio over Order. This initally will cause problems with lower level RvR.
For all of you DAOC Veterans, you know what will happen. They will have bonuses to EXP and RvR points to draw more Order members. Mid-range, this will help. But...
Long run. Something is wrong. Are the order character races weak? Is it the classes? Both? I think Mythic may have to make a class adjustment so an order class will be the "flavor of the moment" to boost the numbers.
Thoughts?
Comments
The classes are very balanced.
However, there is a large consensus that the Destruction Characters are just "more cool".
The High Elves in particular have taken a lot of heat from some people on a number of grounds. Some people don't like the Tolkienesque male elves, who don't appear "masculine enough" for some. Because of the looks in the tabletop Warhammer, which WAR follows, most of the High Elf Classes, including The Tank class, wear robes, which is another problem for those with masculinity issues.
Also, most of the female High Elf faces are horrible, so the race doesn't even win points for "eye candy".
I think Mythic was mindful of the population imbalance in WoW favoring Alliance and wanted to make Destruction more appealing. For some, this went to far.
For players open to either side, Order now has a clear advantage in that server queues for order are smaller or non-existent and queues for scenarios will be shorter.
Of course, Destruction will have an advantage in non-Scenario RvR unless the imbalances are fixed.
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I think Destro armor looks more appealing than Order's, thus it may be a factor in the roll.
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I havent seen population be a factor in winning, at least in Scenarios. Really depends on organization and smart playing.
I just think not enough people have read the books. For me, reading about the Chaos made me not even want to go near Destruction. Not like I won't try it out, but...
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Not in the short term, no.
I n the long term, even with queues, numbers do tell simply in the form of 'replacement' and 'fresh' players. Mythic is going to need to keep its eye on the ball here. Amazingly, a lot of people I knew were too used to WOW as well and simply assumed htat Order would be highly populated and Destruction underplayed. I kept trying to tell them how the opposite was going to be true of WAR -- but they're so diggong on Chaos and the Greenskins thatt they rolled anyways. Seems they're hardly alone.
I think its too early to make such an assumption, its just CE, next is SE, then the game goes live to the world, hence your gonna have 10x more the people playing after sept.18, so lets just wait a few weeks and see how the population is then, i think it will not be a problem at all,
i am gonna wait and see myself. i think a lot will roll order at full release. evil seems to have effects on some people so they will always roll the "good guys"
Actually, as far as I've seen, on some of the servers Dest and Order are even, and some of the servers (RP ones it seems more likely) the Order side actually outnumbers Dest! In addition, when Dest does outnumber Order, it doesn't appear to be anywhere near 2:1. Usually Order is High and Dest is Full with a small queue.
Besides, this is CE preorder codes only, Standard preorders go in tuesday, and everyone else comes in thursday. With presumably only 1/3 of the population in the game, we shouldn't worry too much about population balance just yet (and it isn't even that bad now).
You should also take note that the people who preordered the CE are more the "hardcore" crowd, where as the more casual crowd tends to flock more to the "good" side (atleast they appear to in WoW). This means the numbers could easily skew the other direction once normal people are playing and not just all us degenerates obsessed with the game
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I agree with you but the CE hardly represent 1/3 of the population in game. there were only 60k units shipped and hopefully that would not be 1/3
Can't wait till tomarrow.....Still trying to decide Warrior Priest/Archmage or Bright Wizard tho lol;)
in open beta order seemed to outnumber destruction
either way...........
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Scenarios have a set limit of players that can enter. 10vs10, 15vs15, etc. This is a way to ensure balance effectively. World PvP is where populations can be problematic. It can be hard or impossible to overcome a 2:1 ratio
I'm in a pretty rough place... I like the idea of playing the underdog just as much as I want to play a Chosen, a Disciple of Khaine, and a Marauder. Not many of the order classes appeal to me. Warpriest might, but I'd rather just tank than worry about healing and melee.
Shadow Warrior is a possibility, though I want to try something different than Ranged DPS.
White Lion is interesting too, though I dunno if I feel like having ANOTHER pet...
(If you can't tell, I used to be a Night Elf Hunter)
Dwarves don't appeal to me, and the Bright Wizard is a little too flashy for my tastes.
Leaves very few choices and even less destro, and I'm kinda worried I'll be stuck queing just for my tastes.
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From what I've read, it seems the servers aren't set to have their full caps caps available yet, so a lot of these queues should be lessened in the near future. Likely more servers will be raised, too. Just so long as they're not raised prematurely - before the incentive of joining the side with less population is removed.
Really, more people should be wiling to even out the teams more. Sure, I can understand how High Elves seem a tad... overly posh. This sort of fits the whole "better than thou" mindset of High Elves, really. However, the Empire and Dwarves having nothing wrong with them. Heck, Dwarves are probably the coolest race in the game.
I figure a lot of people who are piling up on Destruction right now are doing so because htey figure it's the "winning" team. In that case, they deserve every bit of queue sitting suffering they're getting. A pity they're dragging the legit players down with them.
I guess I'll soon see. Midnight EST... 3 or 4 hours depending on if that's -4 or -3 from PST. (-4, I think.)
Haha, yeah. I think I'm going to be one of the very few High Elf players, which is in a way nice since I won't have as many people looking exactly like me. To be honest I think alot of the high elf male characters look rather good (I'm loving the shadow warrior and white lion look, hell even the swordmaster looks good without the helmet), but I guess that's of a smaller opinion to what most are thinking.
Amen!
Let 'em fill up the queues. More green skins to slay!
Yep - this is striking; what were they thinking making these female high elves so incredibly ugly.
So we get ugly dwarves, ugly elves and bland empire without (to the uninformed) its most appealing class - knight of the blazing sun.
Plus people assume destro = horde, which were superior.
It however ebb and flow.
But, as one of the mindless majority who will roll destro, I am doing so because destro is SO much more appealing.
a) Greenskins are funny. b) Chaos are nutty. c) Dark Elves are sexy. Funny sexy and deranged? Bring it on!
vs Boringly stumpy (dwarves). Efffete and ugly (elves). I can see Empire as having more character... if only they were more .. hmm.. zealous. Maybe they are... I did not play it enough.
But at first blush the destro starting zones are also more interesting. Which also skews initial impressions.
Which said, I do like the bright wizard look - very manic.
Well I don't know aobut you guys but Im tired of playing Elves and such. Thats why im rolling a greenkin. Thats probobly why others are rolling Destruction as well.
When they reintroduce the pulled 4 classes it will even out some. The two order classes pulled were pretty cool and will help draw people to the Order side. The knight in particular will bring alot of the converts over who want to play a badass tank class.
As mentioned before, it's really down to the "cool factor". As an example, I went to the tier 1 Order v Chaos scenario last night, 12 v 12, and there were 6 Chaos Chosen. Understandable really coz they look great. Pretty sure thing will settle down in time though.
This thread made me sad because I'm part of the problem. During my limited play in beta I was dead set on rolling a bright wizard. Then the evil struck and I was tempted to play a Witch Elf. Even though I had two very specific rules about never playing a female toon and NEVER playing an elf race - I broke them both and haven't looked back. I still have discomfort vibing with the toon but the amout of order @ss I get to serve up is just...just... *tear*. It's so beautiful man. All I need is an emote to lick my dagger and I truly believe I'll want for nothing else...excpet a melee snare.
*If* they reintroduce all those classes it'll be at least 6 months down the line most likely, by that time pops will have settled already and have deep roots with their side.