and in response to knives i think your being a little closed minded about this. why couldent quests ever be different i see no obsticle stopping them from becoming more interesting and fun to do apart from the fact the developers carnt be botherd
yea I know Im closed minded, but I honestly don't see any other way they could make quests for thousands of peopel to enjoy at the ssame time, but anyways that's why I try to keep as far away from mmorpg's quests as possible.
those into quests that say go out and kill stuff are good in their own way, they are basic and strait to the point for the casual gamer, most ppl dont like spending a couple hours wandering around until they randomly stumble upon another clue or item that they needed to be looking for. also your missing that major point that almost all of these go out and kill stuff quests are merely SIDE QUESTS, and if you bothered to do the main story quest you would realize that the games have an actual story if you bother to take the time and go thru with it
I like a quest when its not so much for xp but an actual item...
If you like a challenge try the quests in AO. They give you almost no info about where to go just subtle hints about what or who you are looking for. Most of the NPCs don't just come out and say what they want. So the quests are considerably more challenging.
It was never geared toward leveling it was a quest to get some rare Item that only the people who figured out the quest had. It gave a sense of accomplishment and a usually powerful item that everyone else coveted after they saw it.
If only there weren't websites full of spoilers and walk throughs for these fantastic quests then there would still be something fun and challenging about them. I personally believe that if you went through a complicated quest and achieved your goal GOOD FOR YOU. Just don't go posting how you did it on some website or run around telling everyone else how to do it. You worked for it now let them.
ROLEPLAYERS UNITE!!!!!
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
I find no problem to the Quests/Tasks that are of the Hunt/Kill/Retrieve variety. The rewards are usually lackluster though. I mean killing 10-100 left handed dinglefloppers to acquire 5 red belts from them and my reward is 2 minor healing potions, those of which I've already gotten 20+ of from the hunt/kill portion is silly. Make the rewards better, not necessarilly the quests. In all honesty, wouldn't most grinders... I mean gamers kill many many monsters anyway? I know I would.
Originally posted by starman999 If only there weren't websites full of spoilers and walk throughs for these fantastic quests then there would still be something fun and challenging about them. I personally believe that if you went through a complicated quest and achieved your goal GOOD FOR YOU. Just don't go posting how you did it on some website or run around telling everyone else how to do it. You worked for it now let them.
ROLEPLAYERS UNITE!!!!!
Sadly, there is lots of people who want these spoilers to be there as they can't be bothered to explore/adventure for themselves and just want to get it done with as quick as possible to get their reward.
MMOs tend to attract a different audience than singleplayer RPGs. While in normal RPGs the story/exploration is the focus, MMOs are much more competitive and hence the playstyle is different.
As for the quests, I guess if they introduced challenging/storyrelated quests from lvl 1, they would soon run out of ideas, so they save that for high level content.
Such as I remember being an axeman and the legends of some powerful lightning stilifi being hidden in the dessert.
silifi of crimson stars
Or hidden quests like the nexus armor that was in the middle of the direlands
ah. yes. the good ol' armor that's been surpassed by the newer armor now looked upon as "newbie junk"
For crying out loud, they are supposed to be brain dead simple. Wait till you start doing elite and instance quests, quite a bit better.
If you consider them a part of the "newbie tutorial" then sure. I don't see why people have to be treated like they have an IQ of 46... I can usually figure out a game without going through the tutorial and sometimes I don't even bother with it. I rarely get involved in what games call "quests" too, but still I agree with seraph that they should be more than just "click this number of times and press this button so many times and then get a reward". quests (in my opinion) should never be accomplished with ease. They should be hard tasks for those who feel like accepting them.
if you are supposed to quest for a "lost gem of ancient power" to restore the world then it should take more than days of killing & leveling. it should count in the factors of your character's skill and your skill & wit as a human being. and... there should not be another of these "all mighty and precious gems" for the next group to come around so they can auction it off to trade in for some experience or a health elixir.
"As the eagle was killed by the arrow winged with his own feather, so the hand of the world is wounded by its own skill." - Helen Keller
"Put your foot where your mouth is." - Wisdom from my grandfather "Paper or plastic? ... because I'm afraid I'll have to suffocate you unless you put this bag on your head..." - Ethnitrek AC1: Wierding from Harvestgain
Ahh, yep, thats what it was. I remember reading something about it actually in the game manual. Was cool how they sort of built a type of legend for things like that.
ah. yes. the good ol' armor that's been surpassed by the newer armor now looked upon as "newbie junk"
Newbie junk? I remember when there was only one per server so about 5-6 sets of them in all. And them being sold on ebay for about 3 grand. I quit in about 01 or so. So obviously alot has changed, and it seems for some stuff, not for the better.
"As the eagle was killed by the arrow winged with his own feather, so the hand of the world is wounded by its own skill." - Helen Keller
ok. As for whoever said in WoW the elite quests are actually indepth and largely different from others. Partially thats true, but it still feels like the rest. Kill 10 wolves. Ok, done, take back, get reward, get nother quest. Now kill 10 dire wolves. Return, reward, nother quest. Now elite quest, and go kill named werewolf. Now you get big bad armor that every other single newbie at your level is gonna have.
Not fun.
The only way I can really see quests as fun and feeling accomplished. Is to either have something like the lineage chronicles, except some tweaking.
Such as tons of minor quests that can't be done more then once. Which then lead upto bigger quests. Then bigger, etc. Which effectively actually change the game world. It would also be nice to see destructible buildings, monsters raiding.
I'd start to like to see non-static spawns, roaming bands of bandits that actually have high intelligence, killing you, and actually looting your corpse (Lets face it. Bandits kill you. And they're going to let you come back and let you get your loot?)
Or you could have PvP type quests. If i remember correctly the older style horizons boasted of an ability to actually take over land. And the whole race-war bit added incentive as to actually attack. But for the sick and twisted PvP'er in us, you'd be able to actually attack your own kind, but with consequences along the lines of guards KoS'ing you.
Personally I think there are many solutions to the problem, the thing of it though is. People pay for the EQ cookie-cutter crap. And as long as they do, they're going to keep on comin out with the clones with better graphics. And sucking in the newbies and their money. While the vets are inadvertently screwed.
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
Man... I love testing a really polished game to lvl 5, doing one quest then coming here to complain about how easy the noob quests are. It makes me feel great knowing that people are wanting to try while I whine about what I have!
So obviously alot has changed, and it seems for some stuff, not for the better.
heh. I quit around the time they came out with al 280+ amuli (not counting in armor tinkering skill which can raise a piece of armor's al up to +200)
I love testing a really polished game to lvl 5, doing one quest then coming here to complain about how easy the noob quests are.
The problem is that no quest should really be easy. Of course, I know that a lot of games these days misuse the word 'quest'. or so my opinion is.. one dictionary definition of the word 'quest' that would fit in a midieval setting is: an adventurous expedition undertaken by a knight or knights to secure or achieve something. Having said that, let's do the adventurous expedition to achieve a couple pig snouts for a meager reward.
"As the eagle was killed by the arrow winged with his own feather, so the hand of the world is wounded by its own skill." - Helen Keller
"Put your foot where your mouth is." - Wisdom from my grandfather "Paper or plastic? ... because I'm afraid I'll have to suffocate you unless you put this bag on your head..." - Ethnitrek AC1: Wierding from Harvestgain
Originally posted by Righty Man... I love testing a really polished game to lvl 5, doing one quest then coming here to complain about how easy the noob quests are. It makes me feel great knowing that people are wanting to try while I whine about what I have! Oh...wait wait... thats the first guy, not me...
Hmmm.."the first guy"...well - can't be me since I'm not a guy! LOl.
However, just in case - I don't believe I ever mentioned in the post a particular game. And the particular quest I patterned the example after was not a lvl 5 newbie quest. Though that doesnt really matter. My point is that almost all quests are blase.
How about a couple more examples from other games?
i forget who but the guy who said that it would be better if quests had an actual effect on the game world was on to something i think..... did someone say that or am i just listening to the voices in my head again?
what....no.....NO i will not kill everybody.......go away voices leave me alone.....
Quests: These are eqic things for long lost artifacts or world changing events, people undertake these for fame and glory and true power.
Missions: These are what most games call "quests", you do these for some simple item and money/XP
Tasks: These you do because you have to, either someone is telling you to do it or the game forces you to do it. There can be tasks that are bigger then quests, but if you are forced to do them they are still tasks, like AO faction raids.
Now please lets all lobby so that each thing get its real name?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Annekynn Who the heck at blizzard is going to spend lots of time making good NEWBIE quests.
only the smart ones.
Newbie quests should be the most immersive and attention grabbing as newbies are the highest rated group to leave a mmorpg versus high end/level users.
Originally posted by WizGamer Now hear me out, its just an opinion, I don't want yours. .
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
as newbies are the highest rated group to leave a mmorpg versus high end/level users.
yeah. not that hard of a point to see, but kudos to you enigma for having spoken it. Usually the first impressions of a game are the lasting impressions. I still remember my first impressions from the first massive online games I've played. they were all very good.
"As the eagle was killed by the arrow winged with his own feather, so the hand of the world is wounded by its own skill." - Helen Keller
"Put your foot where your mouth is." - Wisdom from my grandfather "Paper or plastic? ... because I'm afraid I'll have to suffocate you unless you put this bag on your head..." - Ethnitrek AC1: Wierding from Harvestgain
Newbie quests should be the most immersive and attention grabbing as newbies are the highest rated group to leave a mmorpg versus high end/level users.
Originally posted by WizGamer Now hear me out, its just an opinion, I don't want yours. .
Exactly. Two of the reaons that got me so hooked on AC1 was the PvP on darktide, and the quests throughout the game. Almost every quest I did was mysterious, fun, and being probably the most famous axe-man on the server (And one of the very few, axe wasn't a very popular skill).
From Brogords Axe, to exploring the new isles. Although I think server population may tie in as well, when you have 5000 people on one server and all of them camping a spawn for a quest or good exp...It doesn't feel like...magic.
Perfect example, play as an undead or nightelf when open beta, or at retail in WoW. Kill X amount of creatures, kill named creature. The mediocrity is to rend your eyes to shreds. Especially no matter how long I played that game in open beta, no matter what class or race. Was sad. And this is how most quests are.
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
Originally posted by jimhus A lot of ORPG are falling into this rut. While I have no problem with KillTasks per se - they should not be the quickest way to level. Group hunting should be the quickest, then Tasks, then solo hunting, then quests (in my opinion only). Quests should provide lore and equipment primarily.
Err how about they all give about the same XP and no one way is better than the other, that way the player can choose the way he/she likes to play
Originally posted by Rock_Rard heh, If "the good ol' days of EQ questing" is what you want... then start a new char in EQ damnit! simply don''t play the new games if you don't like them I hate posts like this
umm...the original poster got his quest from Wow...not from EQ. He's upset with the quality of quests today
Originally posted by WizGamer Now hear me out, its just an opinion, I don't want yours. .
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
I find questing in single player RPGs more satisfying overall than the typical quests in MMORPGs, especially those generated by the player community in Neverwinter Nights' modules, or even from classics like the Baldurs Gate series, Planescape, Fallout, and Knights of the Old Republic. True, fedex-type mission is still present, but they're wrapped within interesting, thought-provoking, and oftentimes emotional stories. Although other types of quests are available, a commitment to a rousing story never diminishes. Many of these stories offer me a variety of choices and consequences of my actions. Some story plots are part of an ongoing saga or major story arc, and some stories are short self-contained tales, but the mini-stories combined as whole add to the rich layer of a game's storytelling.
I would rather a game have 100 "meaningful, fun, and entertaining" quests than 2000+ meaningless, dull, and boring quests. Both WoW and EQ2 suffer from this.
FFXI was probably best at quests/missions. Many of the quests were kind of dull.. go kill mob X, collect Y, etc., but the missions were GREAT. There were only about 30 of them at release, and a few more added on with expansion packs, but they ahd so much content in one quest it could easily take you a few days.
When a quest doesn't have great rewards, yet people still do them for the fun of it, then you know it's a great quest(which is exactly what FFXI missions were like).
I haven't done a single quest in EQ2 or WoW that I would do again if it wasn't for the reward.
----------------------------------
"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home." -- Ken Olson, chairman of Digital Equipment Corp, 1977
----------------------------------
"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home." -- Ken Olson, chairman of Digital Equipment Corp, 1977
Comments
and in response to knives i think your being a little closed minded about this. why couldent quests ever be different i see no obsticle stopping them from becoming more interesting and fun to do apart from the fact the developers carnt be botherd
dammit! people keep posting while im typing and then it looks like im still on an old topic
lol
yea I know Im closed minded, but I honestly don't see any other way they could make quests for thousands of peopel to enjoy at the ssame time, but anyways that's why I try to keep as far away from mmorpg's quests as possible.
those into quests that say go out and kill stuff are good in their own way, they are basic and strait to the point for the casual gamer, most ppl dont like spending a couple hours wandering around until they randomly stumble upon another clue or item that they needed to be looking for. also your missing that major point that almost all of these go out and kill stuff quests are merely SIDE QUESTS, and if you bothered to do the main story quest you would realize that the games have an actual story if you bother to take the time and go thru with it
well everybody's entitled to there own oppinion and i guess a bunch of gamers bitching on a web fourm aint gona change anything
I like a quest when its not so much for xp but an actual item...
If you like a challenge try the quests in AO. They give you almost no info about where to go just subtle hints about what or who you are looking for. Most of the NPCs don't just come out and say what they want. So the quests are considerably more challenging.
It was never geared toward leveling it was a quest to get some rare Item that only the people who figured out the quest had. It gave a sense of accomplishment and a usually powerful item that everyone else coveted after they saw it.
If only there weren't websites full of spoilers and walk throughs for these fantastic quests then there would still be something fun and challenging about them. I personally believe that if you went through a complicated quest and achieved your goal GOOD FOR YOU. Just don't go posting how you did it on some website or run around telling everyone else how to do it. You worked for it now let them.
ROLEPLAYERS UNITE!!!!!
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
I find no problem to the Quests/Tasks that are of the Hunt/Kill/Retrieve variety. The rewards are usually lackluster though. I mean killing 10-100 left handed dinglefloppers to acquire 5 red belts from them and my reward is 2 minor healing potions, those of which I've already gotten 20+ of from the hunt/kill portion is silly. Make the rewards better, not necessarilly the quests. In all honesty, wouldn't most grinders... I mean gamers kill many many monsters anyway? I know I would.
Sadly, there is lots of people who want these spoilers to be there as they can't be bothered to explore/adventure for themselves and just want to get it done with as quick as possible to get their reward.
MMOs tend to attract a different audience than singleplayer RPGs. While in normal RPGs the story/exploration is the focus, MMOs are much more competitive and hence the playstyle is different.
As for the quests, I guess if they introduced challenging/storyrelated quests from lvl 1, they would soon run out of ideas, so they save that for high level content.
Such as I remember being an axeman and the legends of some powerful lightning stilifi being hidden in the dessert.
silifi of crimson stars
Or hidden quests like the nexus armor that was in the middle of the direlands
ah. yes. the good ol' armor that's been surpassed by the newer armor now looked upon as "newbie junk"
For crying out loud, they are supposed to be brain dead simple. Wait till you start doing elite and instance quests, quite a bit better.
If you consider them a part of the "newbie tutorial" then sure. I don't see why people have to be treated like they have an IQ of 46... I can usually figure out a game without going through the tutorial and sometimes I don't even bother with it. I rarely get involved in what games call "quests" too, but still I agree with seraph that they should be more than just "click this number of times and press this button so many times and then get a reward". quests (in my opinion) should never be accomplished with ease. They should be hard tasks for those who feel like accepting them.
if you are supposed to quest for a "lost gem of ancient power" to restore the world then it should take more than days of killing & leveling. it should count in the factors of your character's skill and your skill & wit as a human being. and... there should not be another of these "all mighty and precious gems" for the next group to come around so they can auction it off to trade in for some experience or a health elixir.
"As the eagle was killed by the arrow winged with his own feather, so the hand of the world is wounded by its own skill." - Helen Keller
"Put your foot where your mouth is." - Wisdom from my grandfather
"Paper or plastic? ... because I'm afraid I'll have to suffocate you unless you put this bag on your head..." - Ethnitrek
AC1: Wierding from Harvestgain
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
Man... I love testing a really polished game to lvl 5, doing one quest then coming here to complain about how easy the noob quests are. It makes me feel great knowing that people are wanting to try while I whine about what I have!
Oh...wait wait... thats the first guy, not me...
So obviously alot has changed, and it seems for some stuff, not for the better.
heh. I quit around the time they came out with al 280+ amuli (not counting in armor tinkering skill which can raise a piece of armor's al up to +200)
I love testing a really polished game to lvl 5, doing one quest then coming here to complain about how easy the noob quests are.
The problem is that no quest should really be easy. Of course, I know that a lot of games these days misuse the word 'quest'. or so my opinion is.. one dictionary definition of the word 'quest' that would fit in a midieval setting is: an adventurous expedition undertaken by a knight or knights to secure or achieve something. Having said that, let's do the adventurous expedition to achieve a couple pig snouts for a meager reward.
"As the eagle was killed by the arrow winged with his own feather, so the hand of the world is wounded by its own skill." - Helen Keller
"Put your foot where your mouth is." - Wisdom from my grandfather
"Paper or plastic? ... because I'm afraid I'll have to suffocate you unless you put this bag on your head..." - Ethnitrek
AC1: Wierding from Harvestgain
Hmmm.."the first guy"...well - can't be me since I'm not a guy! LOl.
However, just in case - I don't believe I ever mentioned in the post a particular game. And the particular quest I patterned the example after was not a lvl 5 newbie quest. Though that doesnt really matter. My point is that almost all quests are blase.
How about a couple more examples from other games?
Ooohh challenging! Lol....feel free however to disagree!
i forget who but the guy who said that it would be better if quests had an actual effect on the game world was on to something i think..... did someone say that or am i just listening to the voices in my head again?
what....no.....NO i will not kill everybody.......go away voices leave me alone.....
Shouldnt these things be renamed somehow?
Like:
Quests: These are eqic things for long lost artifacts or world changing events, people undertake these for fame and glory and true power.
Missions: These are what most games call "quests", you do these for some simple item and money/XP
Tasks: These you do because you have to, either someone is telling you to do it or the game forces you to do it. There can be tasks that are bigger then quests, but if you are forced to do them they are still tasks, like AO faction raids.
Now please lets all lobby so that each thing get its real name?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
good idear if a game could split up the categorys of the tasks/quests/missons in game it would help alot
only the smart ones.
Newbie quests should be the most immersive and attention grabbing as newbies are the highest rated group to leave a mmorpg versus high end/level users.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
as newbies are the highest rated group to leave a mmorpg versus high end/level users.
yeah. not that hard of a point to see, but kudos to you enigma for having spoken it. Usually the first impressions of a game are the lasting impressions. I still remember my first impressions from the first massive online games I've played. they were all very good.
"As the eagle was killed by the arrow winged with his own feather, so the hand of the world is wounded by its own skill." - Helen Keller
"Put your foot where your mouth is." - Wisdom from my grandfather
"Paper or plastic? ... because I'm afraid I'll have to suffocate you unless you put this bag on your head..." - Ethnitrek
AC1: Wierding from Harvestgain
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
I'd rather go 'quest' for 10 pigs feet and feel I have something to acomplish then to kill rats simply for the sake of leveling.
Prob why there is a quest to kill rats in Quenos and West Freeport... so it wouldn't feel as trivial as it actually was.
Former Stress Tester of WoW
Realmreaver formally of EQ, SWG, FFXI and WoW.
Malis/Pirotess of PSO.
Some named of Diablo 1 and 2
Grendel Kinguard of GW.
heh,
If "the good ol' days of EQ questing" is what you want... then start a new char in EQ damnit!
simply don''t play the new games if you don't like them
EDIT: WoW fanboi here so disregard if you want to
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
I would rather a game have 100 "meaningful, fun, and entertaining" quests than 2000+ meaningless, dull, and boring quests. Both WoW and EQ2 suffer from this.
FFXI was probably best at quests/missions. Many of the quests were kind of dull.. go kill mob X, collect Y, etc., but the missions were GREAT. There were only about 30 of them at release, and a few more added on with expansion packs, but they ahd so much content in one quest it could easily take you a few days.
When a quest doesn't have great rewards, yet people still do them for the fun of it, then you know it's a great quest(which is exactly what FFXI missions were like).
I haven't done a single quest in EQ2 or WoW that I would do again if it wasn't for the reward.
----------------------------------
"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
-- Ken Olson, chairman of Digital Equipment Corp, 1977
----------------------------------
"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
-- Ken Olson, chairman of Digital Equipment Corp, 1977