What amazes me is the small-mindedness and general mulishness of Mark's attitude. Maybe that's why DAoC server population right this moment looks like this: Currently defending the realms:
1,391North America
2,015 GOA Europe
3,406 That's from the Camelot Herald. Those are not numbers to be proud of and, frankly, I'm surprise EA gave this guy as much free reign as they have. Unless there's a shift in management, this is the future of Warhammer and it won't take 7 years to get there. People have a lot more choices now and, as a poster above so aptly put it, once some people leave, they never look back.
You talking about the Camelot Herald ie: Dark Age of Camelot, or the WAR Herald for... Warhamer? Some scientists are now saying that they're two different games.
Those are the combined populations of all the DAoC server just a few minutes ago. To me, this speaks volumes because Mark likes to point to DAoC as evidence of Mythic's ability to run an MMORPG and justification for why they made some of the choices they did with WAR. I know DAoC has been around for a while, but best case server populations of less than 5000 players for a game focused on RvR is nothing to crow about.
As I've said before, I love the Warhammer IP and I'd really like to see the game take off and do well. Initially, I was even hoping that, yes, they'd take a big bite out of WoW's customer base but this attitude of "If you have a problem, just cancel" and the fact that Mythic doesn't care why really has my nose out of joint. I've got an $80 Collector's Edition sitting here from a company who was eager to sell it, but once they have my money, couldn't care less about me as a customer. Yes, I've cancelled and Mythic didn't even care enough to wonder why.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II "People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
What amazes me is the small-mindedness and general mulishness of Mark's attitude. Maybe that's why DAoC server population right this moment looks like this: Currently defending the realms:
1,391North America
2,015 GOA Europe
3,406 That's from the Camelot Herald. Those are not numbers to be proud of and, frankly, I'm surprise EA gave this guy as much free reign as they have. Unless there's a shift in management, this is the future of Warhammer and it won't take 7 years to get there. People have a lot more choices now and, as a poster above so aptly put it, once some people leave, they never look back.
I didn't want to be as obvious as your comments, but I tend to agree. They walked a very thin line and chose the path of we will do what we want. Very dangerous especially considering the volatile nature of players today. they will leave and never look back.
What amazes me is the small-mindedness and general mulishness of Mark's attitude. Maybe that's why DAoC server population right this moment looks like this: Currently defending the realms:
1,391North America
2,015 GOA Europe
3,406 That's from the Camelot Herald. Those are not numbers to be proud of and, frankly, I'm surprise EA gave this guy as much free reign as they have. Unless there's a shift in management, this is the future of Warhammer and it won't take 7 years to get there. People have a lot more choices now and, as a poster above so aptly put it, once some people leave, they never look back.
You talking about the Camelot Herald ie: Dark Age of Camelot, or the WAR Herald for... Warhamer? Some scientists are now saying that they're two different games.
Those are the combined populations of all the DAoC server just a few minutes ago. To me, this speaks volumes because Mark likes to point to DAoC as evidence of Mythic's ability to run an MMORPG and justification for why they made some of the choices they did with WAR. I know DAoC has been around for a while, but best case server populations of less than 5000 players for a game focused on RvR is nothing to crow about.
As I've said before, I love the Warhammer IP and I'd really like to see the game take off and do well. Initially, I was even hoping that, yes, they'd take a big bite out of WoW's customer base but this attitude of "If you have a problem, just cancel" and the fact that Mythic doesn't care why really has my nose out of joint. I've got an $80 Collector's Edition sitting here from a company who was eager to sell it, but once they have my money, couldn't care less about me as a customer. Yes, I've cancelled and Mythic didn't even care enough to wonder why.
I have as well. I would have liked to think they will do well, but not much has changed. I myself look with admiration at DAoC way back when, but when looking at it objectively the company and game weren't all that great. Was hoping for an improvement.
What amazes me is the small-mindedness and general mulishness of Mark's attitude. Maybe that's why DAoC server population right this moment looks like this: Currently defending the realms:
1,391North America
2,015 GOA Europe
3,406 That's from the Camelot Herald. Those are not numbers to be proud of and, frankly, I'm surprise EA gave this guy as much free reign as they have. Unless there's a shift in management, this is the future of Warhammer and it won't take 7 years to get there. People have a lot more choices now and, as a poster above so aptly put it, once some people leave, they never look back.
I didn't want to be as obvious as your comments, but I tend to agree. They walked a very thin line and chose the path of we will do what we want. Very dangerous especially considering the volatile nature of players today. they will leave and never look back.
P.S. I think the numbers are off
Those are Mythic's posted numbers. In fact, they shed a couple hundred players just since I copied and pasted it from their site. If anyone's remotely curious (or bored) you can see for yourself:
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II "People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
No apologies necessary, my friend. I had a hard time believing what I was reading myself. DAoC was my first MMO and full of potential. It's sad to see such a decline, especially when it's due to simple neglect.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II "People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
DAOC is kinda old you know ... I wouldn't play it just because of that most likely. Not because the graphics itself, but because of certain systems that we got accustomed in newer games that were just not present back in the day. Playing one today I feel like my hands are tied.
AO was my favortie MMO back in the day, however I went back to check it out a couple of months ago and I just couldn't play it anymore ... that is when I decided not to spoil all my good memories and just leave it there.
To get back to the point, DAOC imo is too old to be a good comparison to how WAR will work and DAOC numbers of active players mean exactly nothing. We will see ho WAR will manage in a month or two, it is definitely too early to start whining about how things will be or not be handled.
just a thought, having no forums yet may be a smaller problem, but good luck for new players in the future. tabula rasa recently reopened accounts again to motivate players to come back. cool, I thought, but after an almost endless search in 4 different forums where I wanted to check what changed in the last year (and how players reacted) I found almost nil or mostly outdated stuff. for me, as a customer, I have to think: "is this only a fracture of the playerbase? or am I really on THE biggest community site and the game is already that dead?".
forums were and will always be the central point for the community, splitting that up ("get of my lawn damn you!!!111") won't do the game & the community any good. but hey, at least the companys saved some pennys, yay.
(and talking about dirty forum, I once again would like to point towards the lotro forums. it's as simple as that: keep your house clean and the roaches won't show up).
Official forums are needed imho and not just used to vent. It's also used for players to share their adventures, crafters to help each other hone their skills and talk about their craft and so forth. Even in older games like SWG where you would think, everyone do is complain. You actually will find the majority of the post are to discuss about the game.
For me MMO's not having official forums is like Macys without shopping bags.
What did the official forums in WoW ever do useful? It was just a hangout for all the cry-babies and highly opinionated, arrogant, loud mouths. You need forums? There are a ton of forums for War already. You seek official technical info? There's an official Herald on the main site to let you know what's happening. Reading the replies in here reminds me why I try to avoid forums as much as possible. Both my intelligence and faith in humanity come under assault everytime.
The only reason that Mythic does not have forums is because they don't want to spend money to monitor them. Forums are a necessary evil, without them you don't get the feedback on issues. Sure you can use other site forums, but how do you pick which ones you monitor?
It is because the lack of their own forums they did not get around to correcting huge issues with DAoC until it was far too late. One of the reasons I don't play Mythic games anymore. They don't listen to the playerbase.
NotArkardLord of the Rings Online CorrespondentMemberPosts: 164
Very well said, Mark. You should know that most of us who have played DAoC understand that we do not need official forums to form a community. Communities are formed within the game, and while at this time, everyone's off doing their own thing, eventually things will settle down like they did in DAoC. Known players will be known within the game on their own server, and they don't need to go off posting "I KILLED X PLAYER 10 TIMES IN RVR LOLOLOL I'M SO GOOD" threads on any official forum.
Those who don't understand what a community is really like, or haven't played DAoC, as you said will vote with their credit card. Maybe they'll go back to reading awesome threads on the WoW forums such as:
Very well said, Mark. You should know that most of us who have played DAoC understand that we do not need official forums to form a community. Communities are formed within the game, and while at this time, everyone's off doing their own thing, eventually things will settle down like they did in DAoC. Known players will be known within the game on their own server, and they don't need to go off posting "I KILLED X PLAYER 10 TIMES IN RVR LOLOLOL I'M SO GOOD" threads on any official forum.
Those who don't understand what a community is really like, or haven't played DAoC, as you said will vote with their credit card. Maybe they'll go back to reading awesome threads on the WoW forums such as:
Oh wait, I don't agree. Why? Because War's in game chat system is clunky, buggy and just overall doesn't provide a communicative experience.
Personally, at this point I would just prefer a better in game chat system although I still would like an official forum. Problem is, how do I relay my distaste for their in game chat system? I guess I could submit feedback in game that will get lost in the millions or if there were a forum I could create a post for such an issue and hope to get many other users to support the same idea. An idea that is supported goes farther than just one person alone.
Sure, you are going to get people being rude on an official forum ... just as you will an unofficial. The only difference is that Mythic isn't the one having to moderate at that point. Also, if they actually read the unofficial forums as they claim to, they are going to read the same nasty posts as they would have on an official forum. One difference being, depending on the moderation rules of the site, the nasty posts may just stay there to continuously slap Mythic in the face.
What this is really about is accountability, money and laziness. They don't want to spend money on a forum when they can have unofficial sites do their work for them. Then, when people start posting reasonable requests/feedback, Mythic can simply claim not to have seen the posts and not been aware of the issues. In one swing they have given up accountability and shown how lazy they really are.
It's like a car manufacturer trying to sell a car without a warranty. They don't want to be accountable for the problems that may occur and have to spend revenue to fix the problems.
With an MMO, we get no warranty. Matter of fact, we have to sign an EULA telling us exactly what we CANNOT DO with the software we just spent our money on. So if anything, communication would have to substitute as our warranty. What is the best/easiest form of communication for an MMO??? A FORUM! Mythic is denying us of that form of communication, one that is available for every other MMO out there.
Lastly, Mark is just making things worse for himself if he is really so scared of "mean" posts because now everyone has even more of a reason to hate him.
NotArkardLord of the Rings Online CorrespondentMemberPosts: 164
Originally posted by Pyro2008
Originally posted by NotArkard
Very well said, Mark. You should know that most of us who have played DAoC understand that we do not need official forums to form a community. Communities are formed within the game, and while at this time, everyone's off doing their own thing, eventually things will settle down like they did in DAoC. Known players will be known within the game on their own server, and they don't need to go off posting "I KILLED X PLAYER 10 TIMES IN RVR LOLOLOL I'M SO GOOD" threads on any official forum. Those who don't understand what a community is really like, or haven't played DAoC, as you said will vote with their credit card. Maybe they'll go back to reading awesome threads on the WoW forums such as: 1. "LOLOL THORI'DAL WENT TO A ROGUE" 2. @LEGOLESS I PWNT U!!111! And so on, and so forth.
I couldn't agree with you more ...
Oh wait, I don't agree. Why? Because War's in game chat system is clunky, buggy and just overall doesn't provide a communicative experience.
Personally, at this point I would just prefer a better in game chat system although I still would like an official forum. Problem is, how do I relay my distaste for their in game chat system? I guess I could submit feedback in game that will get lost in the millions or if there were a forum I could create a post for such an issue and hope to get many other users to support the same idea. An idea that is supported goes farther than just one person alone.
Sure, you are going to get people being rude on an official forum ... just as you will an unofficial. The only difference is that Mythic isn't the one having to moderate at that point. Also, if they actually read the unofficial forums as they claim to, they are going to read the same nasty posts as they would have on an official forum. One difference being, depending on the moderation rules of the site, the nasty posts may just stay there to continuously slap Mythic in the face.
What this is really about is accountability, money and laziness. They don't want to spend money on a forum when they can have unofficial sites do their work for them. Then, when people start posting reasonable requests/feedback, Mythic can simply claim not to have seen the posts and not been aware of the issues. In one swing they have given up accountability and shown how lazy they really are.
It's like a car manufacturer trying to sell a car without a warranty. They don't want to be accountable for the problems that may occur and have to spend revenue to fix the problems.
With an MMO, we get no warranty. Matter of fact, we have to sign an EULA telling us exactly what we CANNOT DO with the software we just spent our money on. So if anything, communication would have to substitute as our warranty. What is the best/easiest form of communication for an MMO??? A FORUM! Mythic is denying us of that form of communication, one that is available for every other MMO out there.
Lastly, Mark is just making things worse for himself if he is really so scared of "mean" posts because now everyone has even more of a reason to hate him.
Sorry, that's completely incorrect. Not only is your car analogy a terrible comparison to what is actually going on here, you have a twisted perception of how in-game feedback works. First, the feedback system ensures that player feedback is ALWAYS received and NEVER overlooked. In a forum, you will have to fight with the tens of thousands of other people experiencing problems and constantly bumping your thread to make sure you're heard.
Not to mention, most people end up making ten thousand threads on the same issue because they can't use the "search" function.
A quick look around some fansite forums will show you quite the opposite about how the playerbase feels about official forums. Warhammer Alliance, for example, generally backs what Mark Jacobs is doing. Your generalization that every player is discontent with Mark's decision is not only a bold one to make without proof, but also completely wrong. If you took only 15 seconds to read around fansites or other community forums, you would see just how wrong you are.
The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.
Very well said, Mark. You should know that most of us who have played DAoC understand that we do not need official forums to form a community. Communities are formed within the game, and while at this time, everyone's off doing their own thing, eventually things will settle down like they did in DAoC. Known players will be known within the game on their own server, and they don't need to go off posting "I KILLED X PLAYER 10 TIMES IN RVR LOLOLOL I'M SO GOOD" threads on any official forum. Those who don't understand what a community is really like, or haven't played DAoC, as you said will vote with their credit card. Maybe they'll go back to reading awesome threads on the WoW forums such as: 1. "LOLOL THORI'DAL WENT TO A ROGUE" 2. @LEGOLESS I PWNT U!!111! And so on, and so forth.
I couldn't agree with you more ...
Oh wait, I don't agree. Why? Because War's in game chat system is clunky, buggy and just overall doesn't provide a communicative experience.
Personally, at this point I would just prefer a better in game chat system although I still would like an official forum. Problem is, how do I relay my distaste for their in game chat system? I guess I could submit feedback in game that will get lost in the millions or if there were a forum I could create a post for such an issue and hope to get many other users to support the same idea. An idea that is supported goes farther than just one person alone.
Sure, you are going to get people being rude on an official forum ... just as you will an unofficial. The only difference is that Mythic isn't the one having to moderate at that point. Also, if they actually read the unofficial forums as they claim to, they are going to read the same nasty posts as they would have on an official forum. One difference being, depending on the moderation rules of the site, the nasty posts may just stay there to continuously slap Mythic in the face.
What this is really about is accountability, money and laziness. They don't want to spend money on a forum when they can have unofficial sites do their work for them. Then, when people start posting reasonable requests/feedback, Mythic can simply claim not to have seen the posts and not been aware of the issues. In one swing they have given up accountability and shown how lazy they really are.
It's like a car manufacturer trying to sell a car without a warranty. They don't want to be accountable for the problems that may occur and have to spend revenue to fix the problems.
With an MMO, we get no warranty. Matter of fact, we have to sign an EULA telling us exactly what we CANNOT DO with the software we just spent our money on. So if anything, communication would have to substitute as our warranty. What is the best/easiest form of communication for an MMO??? A FORUM! Mythic is denying us of that form of communication, one that is available for every other MMO out there.
Lastly, Mark is just making things worse for himself if he is really so scared of "mean" posts because now everyone has even more of a reason to hate him.
Sorry, that's completely incorrect. Not only is your car analogy a terrible comparison to what is actually going on here, you have a twisted perception of how in-game feedback works. First, the feedback system ensures that player feedback is ALWAYS received and NEVER overlooked. In a forum, you will have to fight with the tens of thousands of other people experiencing problems and constantly bumping your thread to make sure you're heard.
Not to mention, most people end up making ten thousand threads on the same issue because they can't use the "search" function.
A quick look around some fansite forums will show you quite the opposite about how the playerbase feels about official forums. Warhammer Alliance, for example, generally backs what Mark Jacobs is doing. Your generalization that every player is discontent with Mark's decision is not only a bold one to make without proof, but also completely wrong. If you took only 15 seconds to read around fansites or other community forums, you would see just how wrong you are.
Sorry to say man but you are either blind or full of crap. You must not actually be reading the threads at warhammer alliance. Go to their forums and do a search for MARK. Most of the people there do NOT care for his views.
My car anaology was spot on. This article is mostly about accountability and again you wouldn't expect a car manufacturer to skip on their warranty. Just like you wouldn't expect an MMO to skip on their forum. The two just go hand in hand.
Additionally, there isn't competition on a forum unless your idea is just off the wall. Generally, when you get a following of people with the same impressions, the post is looked at in depth. If a post has a large enough following, it might even be stickied.
Lastly, having worked as a CSR for two major companies (which I will never do again) I have a little experience in how feedback is handled. True, I have not worked for Mythic so I don't know their practices first hand however if Mark is any indication of how things are handled ... it is the same as every other two places I worked. That is to say, we were told to flat out ignore most of the feedback unless it could be categorized under their current goals. Basically, if it didn't agree with the developers already laid out plans, ignore it.
Both Mythic and even even Funcom have expressed that their word is law and they already have a vision of how they want their game to be. We see how well that is going for Funcom....
i'm still wondering what mark jacobs has been doing that he's receiving death threats via official online forums?
we get it -- all of you hate wow forums. everyone that can ONLY bring up wow forums... i am so incredibly sorry for you and i totally pity you that you have only ever played wow and therefore your only experience with a game's official forums are with the blizznet kiddies on wow AND that those children have made you suffer so much.
truly, i pity you.
believe it or not, EVEN ON wow's forums... you have a forum for technical support. which, i'm willing to bet, has a number of helpful stickies which go into far more detail than you'll get on some static-faq, AND you'll have a number of intelligent people able to help you with technical issues... instead of having to wait days/weeks for someone to maybe get back to you via email.
even on wow's forums, there are a TON of class guides.
i'd repeat all the other benefits readily available on many forums
and i have to tell you, i have yet to see any of these death threats to which mark jacobs refers on ANY game's official forums.
so, sorry, but i will do as someone smart-assedly suggested and i'll speak with my credit card AND (bad) word of mouth.
oh and to those of you that talk about not having forums because of complaining and frustration posts made by customers -- WRONG... mark jacobs says those are to be expected and perfectly acceptable. it's the, and i quote, "death threats" that worries him.
i'm just curious... has anyone ever seen death threats on forums about mmo games?
let's just think about that for a moment. if i were to levy a death threat against a game developer... would i do it on a forum with thousands of daily posts, in the hopes the dev might read it?
or... would i find his/her email? if i were going about finding their email... how much more work would it be to get their work address/phone number? if i'm going about doing all of that.... wouldn't it just be a few minutes more to get their home address/phone number? heck, how many of those devs have online resumes and i could get all that information there?
if i WERE making a death threat... why in the world would i do it on a forum?
to sum it up... war is a decent game. i don't play daoc (after a couple of months back in the day) because i got tired of hunting information and trying to find a site that really was a centralized location for everything i wanted (yes, i expected what i find with pretty much all other mmo games). so yes, this is a deal breaker for that reason plus the blatant disrespect paid to me, the customer.
no, this is not a bloated feeling of self-worth. this is a basic customer service issue, with a lack of respect for me, the customer, tied into it.
it's an alright game, which is what daoc was. i'll give it a good 30 day run; but, honestly, i've no intention of scouring the internet for information all other MMOs have the common sense to host themselves and to provide a centralized location for all their customers to meet and discuss and whatever.
common sense and common courtesy are not too much to expect; lots of bugs can be overlooked in lieu of having these two items.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Sorry, that's completely incorrect. Not only is your car analogy a terrible comparison to what is actually going on here, you have a twisted perception of how in-game feedback works. First, the feedback system ensures that player feedback is ALWAYS received and NEVER overlooked. In a forum, you will have to fight with the tens of thousands of other people experiencing problems and constantly bumping your thread to make sure you're heard. Not to mention, most people end up making ten thousand threads on the same issue because they can't use the "search" function. A quick look around some fansite forums will show you quite the opposite about how the playerbase feels about official forums. Warhammer Alliance, for example, generally backs what Mark Jacobs is doing. Your generalization that every player is discontent with Mark's decision is not only a bold one to make without proof, but also completely wrong. If you took only 15 seconds to read around fansites or other community forums, you would see just how wrong you are.
orly? and those other forums are such great places eh?
luckily, i understand how to hit the "search" button and i seem to not be seeing what you're talking about. so um, let's take a look, shall we?
"Since the moderators decided that petition's shouldn't be allowed I'm throwing this topic back up without the petition part in it. So I guess we aren't allowed to /sign anymore. Please don't question the moderator's decision about closing the original thread. Stay on topic.This is a continuation of the older thread: http://www.warhammeralliance.com/for...ad.php?t=96890";
How many of you are a little disappointed Mythic hasn't even said a word about this frustrating issue so many of us have been forced to deal with?
Note for those of you who don't know about this: This stuttering/hitching issue is client side. It's most likely bad optimization for various hardware setups in peoples PC's. There have been countless temporary user fixes, but with most of them after playing the game for a few hours hitching/stuttering returns again.
Let your voice be heard! Feel free to discuss this widespread problem in order to bring it to Mythic's attention.
Also please stay on topic. No flaming! I want this thread to be the voice of all of us who want this fixed. Since there are so many other threads like this one, it would be best to keep all discussion here in this thread to make it easier for Mythic to keep track of the issue. Thanks.
good idea to not have official forums... it really sounds like everyone is backing mark jacobs 100% here! spot on call there m8! (that's ironic statements, just in case anyone didn't catch on.)
good thing there's no official forums, so that ea-mythic can ignore other game-breaking problems as well! ctd isn't that big a problem is it?
good thing people are having to google issues to see who else might be having CTD problems and/or fixes to them. yup, sounds like people are LOVING not having official forums where all this information would be readily available.
should i really continue to go down the list of just this ONE area -- technical support. which a company that just put out 1.5 million boxes at $50 each, can not be bothered with... something this blooming basic and where a centralized forum WOULD be the ideal place to cutdown on the constant barrage of ingame petitions and people going to that official faq/tech support thingie and sending emails via that because their (incredibly limited) helps DON'T help?
i know a technical forum where answers to your questions CAN be readily found must sound like an incredibly INTELLIGENT idea... that's because it IS an incredibly intelligent idea that pretty much all mmo-players take for granted because it is that filled with common sense AND intelligence that to NOT engage in this activity is easily mistaken for moronic stupidity of the worst kind.
here's a place where they're discussing what mark jacobs did/did not say about the cut classes and content (pre retail). it sounds like they're having issues finding exactly where mark had stated it (at least initially in the thread). too bad there's not just one place they could search and be confident that everything said by people like mark jacobs, could be located. again, common sense isn't all that common... and i'm still not seeing any of the death threats that mark gave as reason for not having official forums. where ARE all those death threats hiding?
ya know.. if i go to the COx forums, i can actually find stickies about what video cards work and tweaks for various video cards/settings, heck, even for different versions of windows... too bad mark jacobs doesn't feel that this sort of BASIC customer support should be easily and readily available to paying customers. but, please do support that you agree mark jacobs would be receiving death threats on those official forums. kudos for that!
tired of having to watch the opening video and scroll down/acknowledge the eula EVERY time you load up, and would just like to disable them? well... the devs are SUPPOSED to be going to forums like warhammeralliance, right? where's the dev/tech support for something else that should be basic customer support? dunno, let's check out THAT thread.
oh wait, i see what you're talking about, where everyone is agreeing with mark jacobs... mark made a comment someplace (not sure if they found it, or just paraphrased, damn if only everything was centrally located...) about how war will have to compete with the current wow, not the wow of 4 years ago; because current wow and current war are the choices that gamers are presented. so this must be to what you're referring when you say everyone on places like warhammeralliance.com are agreeing with mark jacobs, eh?
"user fixes are not curing lag"... the op starts with "this is ridiculously frustrating"... man, that TOTALLY sounds like someone incredibly happy with mark jacobs' decision to hide ea-mythic from the massive onslaught of death threats which having official forums OBVIOUSLY breeds. (that is ironic sarcasm.)
oops, before you say it... looks like they already went thru the available official channels and their experience (much like mine and other customers' experiences) was quite underwhelming and lacking.
i like the mark jacobs' quote in the below... if they're planning on giving players what they want... does that mean we WILL have a centralized location to find all we want to know about everything warhammer? oops, i guess i forgot that plethora of death threats that official forums would bring about.
has it sunk in how incredibly stupid his remarks along those lines is...as the reason for not having official forums... or should i ask everyone to google "deat threats made on gaming forums" and everyone can see what an incredibly threat/harrassment/abuse this problem is and how it's running rampant across all games on the intarw3bZ?
oh wait... he said (or maybe just implied, in case someone decides to do a semantics-nerd-rage-of-stupidity-and-ignorance on me) that was a reason daoc didn't do forums either... so it couldn't be that aussie thing, daoc's been around a lot longer than a few months.
oh well, i'm not seeing where warhammeralliance folks are all banding around mark jacobs; but i am seeing frustration there, as well as here, and other UNofficial forums, and ingame, a LOT ingame...
big ups for one of the defining moments of ignoring basic customer support goes to MARK JACOBS~!!!
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY~!!
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
my bad, those death threats WEREN'T on forums... like anyone who wants to make sure they ARE heard, this person went directly to the dev... so nope... still no death threats on forums, just made directly to people.
"They were all emails, and I think at least two of them were possibly serious! They actually left their email addresses on them, so we know who they came from... We had a PSP bug and someone said, 'We're going to send you a bomb and blow the studio up!' But, er, we can track that email."
in all seriousness, WHERE did this happen, these forum-made death threats, that mark jacobs actually sites that as a reason for not having official forums? or is he just full of poopie and making up "oooo da terrorists will git us wif da WMDs if we gotza official forums".
tell me again why people that make such uninformed and idiotic decisions hold positions where they are ALLOWED to make such decisions?
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Originally posted by tkobo A cop-out doesnt paint it with enough crap... What we have here ,is a VERY easy to see attempt at lessening the spread of harmful (to the game) information. Nothing less,nothing more.That they choose to cover it in PR crap, and serve it to the interviewer who just bobs and takes it as gospel, says more than people should need to know about them. For those perception challenged,they choose to not have a forum,becuase they understand thats where the information they dont want talked about would be........ And of course,this isnt the reason they admit to.No... no... its becuase they dont feel the forums would serve a useful purpose....all the while promoting the forums of the surrogates they use to spread their side of an issue ..... Becuase if they had their own forum, their control over the information would be direct and hence even some of the MMO fans would spot it.BUT with the forums they think work just fine, the forums they support,those forums hosted by surrogates,they can pretend to have a degree of seperation from the control while wielding it just the same.And some of you will buy it. Remember this is a Dev from the very same company who hired Lum, just to shut him up.And the head one at that. Barnum had nothing on these guys.Deception to make a sale......
You have it backwards. Dev controlled forums are easier to man handle than a network of fan sites. What's the first thing that happens when people start getting agnry on dev owned forums? Posts get locked, deleted, users get banned..
I suppose you think the devs are handing out money to the fan sites to spend their time playing forum nazi on their own boards? Talk to Wrenn at warhammerconflict, or any of the owners of fan sites and I think they'll laugh in your face.
Devs don't have that control over player owned forums, therefore by not having official forums they force the traffic to fan sites (which they don't control)
There is MORE flow of information via a fan site network than there would EVER be on an official forum. Think about it.
On the forums issue I am dissapointed about the not mentioning logical numbers in the interview before tackeling the abstract. He could've started with the standard, "only 10% ever use a forum board". The minority. He should've opened with that and then addressed the abstract.
AC2 Player RIP Final Death Jan 31st 2017
Refugee of Auberean
Refugee of Dereth
NotArkardLord of the Rings Online CorrespondentMemberPosts: 164
To the guy with the really long post with irrelevant links:
I don't know really know where you got the idea that I was talking about classes being cut, or technical issues, but on the actual subject I was talking about, it took me all of 3 seconds to find this:
While the entire playerbase may not agree with everything Mark Jacobs does(as I think your post tries to prove?), as far as the subject at hand here goes, they do.
Either way, I like you a little more than most since you can use the search function, even if it's to search for threads not relevant to the conversation.
As for tech support, most people will always get tech support from the players. Mythic does offer official support systems, but they'll never be as useful as talking to other players about the issues you're experiencing.
Searching around any official game forum for a few seconds will also show you just how much hand developers, or forum staff have in actually solving problems.
The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.
One more place for the usual suspects to go to bitch, piss and moan because the game doesn't cater specifically to them?
One more place for the legion of arm-chair design experts to rant on about how Mythic did "X Y and Z" all wrong and how they, the poster, would have done it better?
One more place for people to go, demand answers, demand changes, demand explanations and then proceed to bitch about how "Mythic doesn't listen to its players" when they aren't given personal attention?
One more place for any would-be decent thread to be reduced to flame-wars and mud-slinging because people can't seem to keep a thread on topic?
If the Devs, Mark and others are actively reading and posting on places like the Alliance site and so forth, then what's any more "official" about them posting that info on their own site. Is it because it makes it feel like you're "confronting them on their own turf"? An ego thing perhaps?
Look.. the guy's put it out there... Express dissatisfaction, express anger and disappointment.. just don't do it by using vulgarity, threats or blatant insults. For those expressing phony outrage at such a suggestion, ask yourself this one question.. If you're dissatisfied with a product you've bought at a store, do you go to the store and call them every word in the book, threaten them and degrade them over it? I sure as hell hope not, or I'd say you have some serious social or communication issues.
Wanna really send a message? Cancel your sub. How many people say that right on these and other forums? Vote with your wallet. Yet when Mark Jacobs says it, there are people who will find some way to twist it around and make it sound "suspect".
The world isn't going to end if Mythic doesn't have an official forum. There are others out there that do the job just as well and, over time, one will likely rise to become the "unofficial official forums" anyway. I've seen it happen with every other MMO I've played... including those that do have official forums.
I'd love to have the problems some folks must have on these forums if something like Mythic not having official forums for WAR is enough to get you so outraged.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Mark I suppose their is a small chance you may actually read this, so here goes. This may have been said already above I dont know I dont have the time to plow through all these forums. This concerns Mythics position on having official forums.
You have to realize here that you are punishing the 95%-99% of us that are reasonable and don't abuse the fourms, but would still like a place to go to discuss the game in a reasonable manner - both in general and server specific. I am sure one such place evolves somewhere out their in the web but do I have scour the web to find it? Can't you pick one and send people their - or better yet find a way to have forums that respect your views (which I agree with) but don't punish the overwhelmingly majority of your customers because of a few idiots?
If you applied the same mentality you have here to your game itself, you wouldn't let anyone play, because a few of us players turn out to gold farmers. Obviously, this is throwing out the baby with the bathwater and you are doing the same thing with your forum policy.
A simple approach to try - you get one account on the forums automatically created when you create your account, and there is no other way to get a write priv forum account. When you go to use the forum the first time, you get a big pop-up that doesn't have endless pages of legalese that no one ever reads but has a bulleted list of 4 or 5 simple sentence that basically say - be respectful and courteous when you use this forum or you will lose your forum write privs - period.
Warhammer is going mass market. You need to appeal to people who would like an EASY place to go for information who aren't going to spend the time tracking down anything about this on the web, but if you put a good resource in front of them they will use it, be happy, and keep using their credit card to vote that you are doing a good job.
Comments
You talking about the Camelot Herald ie: Dark Age of Camelot, or the WAR Herald for... Warhamer? Some scientists are now saying that they're two different games.
Those are the combined populations of all the DAoC server just a few minutes ago. To me, this speaks volumes because Mark likes to point to DAoC as evidence of Mythic's ability to run an MMORPG and justification for why they made some of the choices they did with WAR. I know DAoC has been around for a while, but best case server populations of less than 5000 players for a game focused on RvR is nothing to crow about.
As I've said before, I love the Warhammer IP and I'd really like to see the game take off and do well. Initially, I was even hoping that, yes, they'd take a big bite out of WoW's customer base but this attitude of "If you have a problem, just cancel" and the fact that Mythic doesn't care why really has my nose out of joint. I've got an $80 Collector's Edition sitting here from a company who was eager to sell it, but once they have my money, couldn't care less about me as a customer. Yes, I've cancelled and Mythic didn't even care enough to wonder why.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II
"People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
I didn't want to be as obvious as your comments, but I tend to agree. They walked a very thin line and chose the path of we will do what we want. Very dangerous especially considering the volatile nature of players today. they will leave and never look back.
P.S. I think the numbers are off
You talking about the Camelot Herald ie: Dark Age of Camelot, or the WAR Herald for... Warhamer? Some scientists are now saying that they're two different games.
Those are the combined populations of all the DAoC server just a few minutes ago. To me, this speaks volumes because Mark likes to point to DAoC as evidence of Mythic's ability to run an MMORPG and justification for why they made some of the choices they did with WAR. I know DAoC has been around for a while, but best case server populations of less than 5000 players for a game focused on RvR is nothing to crow about.
As I've said before, I love the Warhammer IP and I'd really like to see the game take off and do well. Initially, I was even hoping that, yes, they'd take a big bite out of WoW's customer base but this attitude of "If you have a problem, just cancel" and the fact that Mythic doesn't care why really has my nose out of joint. I've got an $80 Collector's Edition sitting here from a company who was eager to sell it, but once they have my money, couldn't care less about me as a customer. Yes, I've cancelled and Mythic didn't even care enough to wonder why.
I have as well. I would have liked to think they will do well, but not much has changed. I myself look with admiration at DAoC way back when, but when looking at it objectively the company and game weren't all that great. Was hoping for an improvement.
I didn't want to be as obvious as your comments, but I tend to agree. They walked a very thin line and chose the path of we will do what we want. Very dangerous especially considering the volatile nature of players today. they will leave and never look back.
P.S. I think the numbers are off
Those are Mythic's posted numbers. In fact, they shed a couple hundred players just since I copied and pasted it from their site. If anyone's remotely curious (or bored) you can see for yourself:
www.camelotherald.com/news/index.php
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II
"People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
My apologies Lord...my mistake.
No apologies necessary, my friend. I had a hard time believing what I was reading myself. DAoC was my first MMO and full of potential. It's sad to see such a decline, especially when it's due to simple neglect.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II
"People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
Well... after a review of most of the posts attached to this subject I'm amused that Mark's reasoning seems validated.
Enjoyed the interview Jon, looking forward to the continuation.
DAOC is kinda old you know ... I wouldn't play it just because of that most likely. Not because the graphics itself, but because of certain systems that we got accustomed in newer games that were just not present back in the day. Playing one today I feel like my hands are tied.
AO was my favortie MMO back in the day, however I went back to check it out a couple of months ago and I just couldn't play it anymore ... that is when I decided not to spoil all my good memories and just leave it there.
To get back to the point, DAOC imo is too old to be a good comparison to how WAR will work and DAOC numbers of active players mean exactly nothing. We will see ho WAR will manage in a month or two, it is definitely too early to start whining about how things will be or not be handled.
just a thought, having no forums yet may be a smaller problem, but good luck for new players in the future.
tabula rasa recently reopened accounts again to motivate players to come back. cool, I thought, but after an almost endless search in 4 different forums where I wanted to check what changed in the last year (and how players reacted) I found almost nil or mostly outdated stuff. for me, as a customer, I have to think: "is this only a fracture of the playerbase? or am I really on THE biggest community site and the game is already that dead?".
forums were and will always be the central point for the community, splitting that up ("get of my lawn damn you!!!111") won't do the game & the community any good. but hey, at least the companys saved some pennys, yay.
(and talking about dirty forum, I once again would like to point towards the lotro forums. it's as simple as that: keep your house clean and the roaches won't show up).
Official forums are needed imho and not just used to vent. It's also used for players to share their adventures, crafters to help each other hone their skills and talk about their craft and so forth. Even in older games like SWG where you would think, everyone do is complain. You actually will find the majority of the post are to discuss about the game.
For me MMO's not having official forums is like Macys without shopping bags.
Fight Me! http://zunarn.mybrute.com
What did the official forums in WoW ever do useful? It was just a hangout for all the cry-babies and highly opinionated, arrogant, loud mouths. You need forums? There are a ton of forums for War already. You seek official technical info? There's an official Herald on the main site to let you know what's happening. Reading the replies in here reminds me why I try to avoid forums as much as possible. Both my intelligence and faith in humanity come under assault everytime.
The only reason that Mythic does not have forums is because they don't want to spend money to monitor them. Forums are a necessary evil, without them you don't get the feedback on issues. Sure you can use other site forums, but how do you pick which ones you monitor?
It is because the lack of their own forums they did not get around to correcting huge issues with DAoC until it was far too late. One of the reasons I don't play Mythic games anymore. They don't listen to the playerbase.
Very well said, Mark. You should know that most of us who have played DAoC understand that we do not need official forums to form a community. Communities are formed within the game, and while at this time, everyone's off doing their own thing, eventually things will settle down like they did in DAoC. Known players will be known within the game on their own server, and they don't need to go off posting "I KILLED X PLAYER 10 TIMES IN RVR LOLOLOL I'M SO GOOD" threads on any official forum.
Those who don't understand what a community is really like, or haven't played DAoC, as you said will vote with their credit card. Maybe they'll go back to reading awesome threads on the WoW forums such as:
1. "LOLOL THORI'DAL WENT TO A ROGUE"
2. @LEGOLESS I PWNT U!!111!
And so on, and so forth.
The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.
I couldn't agree with you more ...
Oh wait, I don't agree. Why? Because War's in game chat system is clunky, buggy and just overall doesn't provide a communicative experience.
Personally, at this point I would just prefer a better in game chat system although I still would like an official forum. Problem is, how do I relay my distaste for their in game chat system? I guess I could submit feedback in game that will get lost in the millions or if there were a forum I could create a post for such an issue and hope to get many other users to support the same idea. An idea that is supported goes farther than just one person alone.
Sure, you are going to get people being rude on an official forum ... just as you will an unofficial. The only difference is that Mythic isn't the one having to moderate at that point. Also, if they actually read the unofficial forums as they claim to, they are going to read the same nasty posts as they would have on an official forum. One difference being, depending on the moderation rules of the site, the nasty posts may just stay there to continuously slap Mythic in the face.
What this is really about is accountability, money and laziness. They don't want to spend money on a forum when they can have unofficial sites do their work for them. Then, when people start posting reasonable requests/feedback, Mythic can simply claim not to have seen the posts and not been aware of the issues. In one swing they have given up accountability and shown how lazy they really are.
It's like a car manufacturer trying to sell a car without a warranty. They don't want to be accountable for the problems that may occur and have to spend revenue to fix the problems.
With an MMO, we get no warranty. Matter of fact, we have to sign an EULA telling us exactly what we CANNOT DO with the software we just spent our money on. So if anything, communication would have to substitute as our warranty. What is the best/easiest form of communication for an MMO??? A FORUM! Mythic is denying us of that form of communication, one that is available for every other MMO out there.
Lastly, Mark is just making things worse for himself if he is really so scared of "mean" posts because now everyone has even more of a reason to hate him.
I couldn't agree with you more ...
Oh wait, I don't agree. Why? Because War's in game chat system is clunky, buggy and just overall doesn't provide a communicative experience.
Personally, at this point I would just prefer a better in game chat system although I still would like an official forum. Problem is, how do I relay my distaste for their in game chat system? I guess I could submit feedback in game that will get lost in the millions or if there were a forum I could create a post for such an issue and hope to get many other users to support the same idea. An idea that is supported goes farther than just one person alone.
Sure, you are going to get people being rude on an official forum ... just as you will an unofficial. The only difference is that Mythic isn't the one having to moderate at that point. Also, if they actually read the unofficial forums as they claim to, they are going to read the same nasty posts as they would have on an official forum. One difference being, depending on the moderation rules of the site, the nasty posts may just stay there to continuously slap Mythic in the face.
What this is really about is accountability, money and laziness. They don't want to spend money on a forum when they can have unofficial sites do their work for them. Then, when people start posting reasonable requests/feedback, Mythic can simply claim not to have seen the posts and not been aware of the issues. In one swing they have given up accountability and shown how lazy they really are.
It's like a car manufacturer trying to sell a car without a warranty. They don't want to be accountable for the problems that may occur and have to spend revenue to fix the problems.
With an MMO, we get no warranty. Matter of fact, we have to sign an EULA telling us exactly what we CANNOT DO with the software we just spent our money on. So if anything, communication would have to substitute as our warranty. What is the best/easiest form of communication for an MMO??? A FORUM! Mythic is denying us of that form of communication, one that is available for every other MMO out there.
Lastly, Mark is just making things worse for himself if he is really so scared of "mean" posts because now everyone has even more of a reason to hate him.
Sorry, that's completely incorrect. Not only is your car analogy a terrible comparison to what is actually going on here, you have a twisted perception of how in-game feedback works. First, the feedback system ensures that player feedback is ALWAYS received and NEVER overlooked. In a forum, you will have to fight with the tens of thousands of other people experiencing problems and constantly bumping your thread to make sure you're heard.
Not to mention, most people end up making ten thousand threads on the same issue because they can't use the "search" function.
A quick look around some fansite forums will show you quite the opposite about how the playerbase feels about official forums. Warhammer Alliance, for example, generally backs what Mark Jacobs is doing. Your generalization that every player is discontent with Mark's decision is not only a bold one to make without proof, but also completely wrong. If you took only 15 seconds to read around fansites or other community forums, you would see just how wrong you are.
The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.
I couldn't agree with you more ...
Oh wait, I don't agree. Why? Because War's in game chat system is clunky, buggy and just overall doesn't provide a communicative experience.
Personally, at this point I would just prefer a better in game chat system although I still would like an official forum. Problem is, how do I relay my distaste for their in game chat system? I guess I could submit feedback in game that will get lost in the millions or if there were a forum I could create a post for such an issue and hope to get many other users to support the same idea. An idea that is supported goes farther than just one person alone.
Sure, you are going to get people being rude on an official forum ... just as you will an unofficial. The only difference is that Mythic isn't the one having to moderate at that point. Also, if they actually read the unofficial forums as they claim to, they are going to read the same nasty posts as they would have on an official forum. One difference being, depending on the moderation rules of the site, the nasty posts may just stay there to continuously slap Mythic in the face.
What this is really about is accountability, money and laziness. They don't want to spend money on a forum when they can have unofficial sites do their work for them. Then, when people start posting reasonable requests/feedback, Mythic can simply claim not to have seen the posts and not been aware of the issues. In one swing they have given up accountability and shown how lazy they really are.
It's like a car manufacturer trying to sell a car without a warranty. They don't want to be accountable for the problems that may occur and have to spend revenue to fix the problems.
With an MMO, we get no warranty. Matter of fact, we have to sign an EULA telling us exactly what we CANNOT DO with the software we just spent our money on. So if anything, communication would have to substitute as our warranty. What is the best/easiest form of communication for an MMO??? A FORUM! Mythic is denying us of that form of communication, one that is available for every other MMO out there.
Lastly, Mark is just making things worse for himself if he is really so scared of "mean" posts because now everyone has even more of a reason to hate him.
Sorry, that's completely incorrect. Not only is your car analogy a terrible comparison to what is actually going on here, you have a twisted perception of how in-game feedback works. First, the feedback system ensures that player feedback is ALWAYS received and NEVER overlooked. In a forum, you will have to fight with the tens of thousands of other people experiencing problems and constantly bumping your thread to make sure you're heard.
Not to mention, most people end up making ten thousand threads on the same issue because they can't use the "search" function.
A quick look around some fansite forums will show you quite the opposite about how the playerbase feels about official forums. Warhammer Alliance, for example, generally backs what Mark Jacobs is doing. Your generalization that every player is discontent with Mark's decision is not only a bold one to make without proof, but also completely wrong. If you took only 15 seconds to read around fansites or other community forums, you would see just how wrong you are.
Sorry to say man but you are either blind or full of crap. You must not actually be reading the threads at warhammer alliance. Go to their forums and do a search for MARK. Most of the people there do NOT care for his views.
My car anaology was spot on. This article is mostly about accountability and again you wouldn't expect a car manufacturer to skip on their warranty. Just like you wouldn't expect an MMO to skip on their forum. The two just go hand in hand.
Additionally, there isn't competition on a forum unless your idea is just off the wall. Generally, when you get a following of people with the same impressions, the post is looked at in depth. If a post has a large enough following, it might even be stickied.
Lastly, having worked as a CSR for two major companies (which I will never do again) I have a little experience in how feedback is handled. True, I have not worked for Mythic so I don't know their practices first hand however if Mark is any indication of how things are handled ... it is the same as every other two places I worked. That is to say, we were told to flat out ignore most of the feedback unless it could be categorized under their current goals. Basically, if it didn't agree with the developers already laid out plans, ignore it.
Both Mythic and even even Funcom have expressed that their word is law and they already have a vision of how they want their game to be. We see how well that is going for Funcom....
i'm still wondering what mark jacobs has been doing that he's receiving death threats via official online forums?
we get it -- all of you hate wow forums. everyone that can ONLY bring up wow forums... i am so incredibly sorry for you and i totally pity you that you have only ever played wow and therefore your only experience with a game's official forums are with the blizznet kiddies on wow AND that those children have made you suffer so much.
truly, i pity you.
believe it or not, EVEN ON wow's forums... you have a forum for technical support. which, i'm willing to bet, has a number of helpful stickies which go into far more detail than you'll get on some static-faq, AND you'll have a number of intelligent people able to help you with technical issues... instead of having to wait days/weeks for someone to maybe get back to you via email.
even on wow's forums, there are a TON of class guides.
i'd repeat all the other benefits readily available on many forums
and i have to tell you, i have yet to see any of these death threats to which mark jacobs refers on ANY game's official forums.
so, sorry, but i will do as someone smart-assedly suggested and i'll speak with my credit card AND (bad) word of mouth.
oh and to those of you that talk about not having forums because of complaining and frustration posts made by customers -- WRONG... mark jacobs says those are to be expected and perfectly acceptable. it's the, and i quote, "death threats" that worries him.
i'm just curious... has anyone ever seen death threats on forums about mmo games?
let's just think about that for a moment. if i were to levy a death threat against a game developer... would i do it on a forum with thousands of daily posts, in the hopes the dev might read it?
or... would i find his/her email? if i were going about finding their email... how much more work would it be to get their work address/phone number? if i'm going about doing all of that.... wouldn't it just be a few minutes more to get their home address/phone number? heck, how many of those devs have online resumes and i could get all that information there?
if i WERE making a death threat... why in the world would i do it on a forum?
to sum it up... war is a decent game. i don't play daoc (after a couple of months back in the day) because i got tired of hunting information and trying to find a site that really was a centralized location for everything i wanted (yes, i expected what i find with pretty much all other mmo games). so yes, this is a deal breaker for that reason plus the blatant disrespect paid to me, the customer.
no, this is not a bloated feeling of self-worth. this is a basic customer service issue, with a lack of respect for me, the customer, tied into it.
it's an alright game, which is what daoc was. i'll give it a good 30 day run; but, honestly, i've no intention of scouring the internet for information all other MMOs have the common sense to host themselves and to provide a centralized location for all their customers to meet and discuss and whatever.
common sense and common courtesy are not too much to expect; lots of bugs can be overlooked in lieu of having these two items.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
orly? and those other forums are such great places eh?
luckily, i understand how to hit the "search" button and i seem to not be seeing what you're talking about. so um, let's take a look, shall we?
http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99123&highlight=mark+jacobs
Still no confirmation from Mythic concerning the "stuttering/hitching" issue!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Since the moderators decided that petition's shouldn't be allowed I'm throwing this topic back up without the petition part in it. So I guess we aren't allowed to /sign anymore. Please don't question the moderator's decision about closing the original thread. Stay on topic.This is a continuation of the older thread: http://www.warhammeralliance.com/for...ad.php?t=96890";
How many of you are a little disappointed Mythic hasn't even said a word about this frustrating issue so many of us have been forced to deal with?
Note for those of you who don't know about this: This stuttering/hitching issue is client side. It's most likely bad optimization for various hardware setups in peoples PC's. There have been countless temporary user fixes, but with most of them after playing the game for a few hours hitching/stuttering returns again.
Let your voice be heard! Feel free to discuss this widespread problem in order to bring it to Mythic's attention.
Also please stay on topic. No flaming! I want this thread to be the voice of all of us who want this fixed. Since there are so many other threads like this one, it would be best to keep all discussion here in this thread to make it easier for Mythic to keep track of the issue. Thanks.
good idea to not have official forums... it really sounds like everyone is backing mark jacobs 100% here! spot on call there m8! (that's ironic statements, just in case anyone didn't catch on.)
good thing there's no official forums, so that ea-mythic can ignore other game-breaking problems as well! ctd isn't that big a problem is it?
http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84053&highlight=mark+jacobs
good thing people are having to google issues to see who else might be having CTD problems and/or fixes to them. yup, sounds like people are LOVING not having official forums where all this information would be readily available.
should i really continue to go down the list of just this ONE area -- technical support. which a company that just put out 1.5 million boxes at $50 each, can not be bothered with... something this blooming basic and where a centralized forum WOULD be the ideal place to cutdown on the constant barrage of ingame petitions and people going to that official faq/tech support thingie and sending emails via that because their (incredibly limited) helps DON'T help?
i know a technical forum where answers to your questions CAN be readily found must sound like an incredibly INTELLIGENT idea... that's because it IS an incredibly intelligent idea that pretty much all mmo-players take for granted because it is that filled with common sense AND intelligence that to NOT engage in this activity is easily mistaken for moronic stupidity of the worst kind.
here's a place where they're discussing what mark jacobs did/did not say about the cut classes and content (pre retail). it sounds like they're having issues finding exactly where mark had stated it (at least initially in the thread). too bad there's not just one place they could search and be confident that everything said by people like mark jacobs, could be located. again, common sense isn't all that common... and i'm still not seeing any of the death threats that mark gave as reason for not having official forums. where ARE all those death threats hiding?
http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118176&highlight=mark+jacobs
ya know.. if i go to the COx forums, i can actually find stickies about what video cards work and tweaks for various video cards/settings, heck, even for different versions of windows... too bad mark jacobs doesn't feel that this sort of BASIC customer support should be easily and readily available to paying customers. but, please do support that you agree mark jacobs would be receiving death threats on those official forums. kudos for that!
http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60716&highlight=mark+jacobs
tired of having to watch the opening video and scroll down/acknowledge the eula EVERY time you load up, and would just like to disable them? well... the devs are SUPPOSED to be going to forums like warhammeralliance, right? where's the dev/tech support for something else that should be basic customer support? dunno, let's check out THAT thread.
http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109047&highlight=mark+jacobs
oh wait, i see what you're talking about, where everyone is agreeing with mark jacobs... mark made a comment someplace (not sure if they found it, or just paraphrased, damn if only everything was centrally located...) about how war will have to compete with the current wow, not the wow of 4 years ago; because current wow and current war are the choices that gamers are presented. so this must be to what you're referring when you say everyone on places like warhammeralliance.com are agreeing with mark jacobs, eh?
http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119379&highlight=mark+jacobs
"user fixes are not curing lag"... the op starts with "this is ridiculously frustrating"... man, that TOTALLY sounds like someone incredibly happy with mark jacobs' decision to hide ea-mythic from the massive onslaught of death threats which having official forums OBVIOUSLY breeds. (that is ironic sarcasm.)
oops, before you say it... looks like they already went thru the available official channels and their experience (much like mine and other customers' experiences) was quite underwhelming and lacking.
http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96158&highlight=mark+jacobs
i like the mark jacobs' quote in the below... if they're planning on giving players what they want... does that mean we WILL have a centralized location to find all we want to know about everything warhammer? oops, i guess i forgot that plethora of death threats that official forums would bring about.
has it sunk in how incredibly stupid his remarks along those lines is...as the reason for not having official forums... or should i ask everyone to google "deat threats made on gaming forums" and everyone can see what an incredibly threat/harrassment/abuse this problem is and how it's running rampant across all games on the intarw3bZ?
http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115019&highlight=mark+jacobs
maybe jacobs saw this:
http://palgn.com.au/article.php?id=11748
oh wait... he said (or maybe just implied, in case someone decides to do a semantics-nerd-rage-of-stupidity-and-ignorance on me) that was a reason daoc didn't do forums either... so it couldn't be that aussie thing, daoc's been around a lot longer than a few months.
oh well, i'm not seeing where warhammeralliance folks are all banding around mark jacobs; but i am seeing frustration there, as well as here, and other UNofficial forums, and ingame, a LOT ingame...
big ups for one of the defining moments of ignoring basic customer support goes to MARK JACOBS~!!!
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY~!!
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
my bad, those death threats WEREN'T on forums... like anyone who wants to make sure they ARE heard, this person went directly to the dev... so nope... still no death threats on forums, just made directly to people.
"They were all emails, and I think at least two of them were possibly serious! They actually left their email addresses on them, so we know who they came from... We had a PSP bug and someone said, 'We're going to send you a bomb and blow the studio up!' But, er, we can track that email."
in all seriousness, WHERE did this happen, these forum-made death threats, that mark jacobs actually sites that as a reason for not having official forums? or is he just full of poopie and making up "oooo da terrorists will git us wif da WMDs if we gotza official forums".
tell me again why people that make such uninformed and idiotic decisions hold positions where they are ALLOWED to make such decisions?
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
What did the official forums in WoW ever do useful?
oh i don't know maybe get them 10 million+ subscribers
You have it backwards. Dev controlled forums are easier to man handle than a network of fan sites. What's the first thing that happens when people start getting agnry on dev owned forums? Posts get locked, deleted, users get banned..
I suppose you think the devs are handing out money to the fan sites to spend their time playing forum nazi on their own boards? Talk to Wrenn at warhammerconflict, or any of the owners of fan sites and I think they'll laugh in your face.
Devs don't have that control over player owned forums, therefore by not having official forums they force the traffic to fan sites (which they don't control)
There is MORE flow of information via a fan site network than there would EVER be on an official forum. Think about it.
On the forums issue I am dissapointed about the not mentioning logical numbers in the interview before tackeling the abstract. He could've started with the standard, "only 10% ever use a forum board". The minority. He should've opened with that and then addressed the abstract.
AC2 Player RIP Final Death Jan 31st 2017
Refugee of Auberean
Refugee of Dereth
To the guy with the really long post with irrelevant links:
I don't know really know where you got the idea that I was talking about classes being cut, or technical issues, but on the actual subject I was talking about, it took me all of 3 seconds to find this:
http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113345&highlight=Official+forums
While the entire playerbase may not agree with everything Mark Jacobs does(as I think your post tries to prove?), as far as the subject at hand here goes, they do.
Either way, I like you a little more than most since you can use the search function, even if it's to search for threads not relevant to the conversation.
As for tech support, most people will always get tech support from the players. Mythic does offer official support systems, but they'll never be as useful as talking to other players about the issues you're experiencing.
Searching around any official game forum for a few seconds will also show you just how much hand developers, or forum staff have in actually solving problems.
The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.
Frankly, what do they need an official forum for?
One more place for the usual suspects to go to bitch, piss and moan because the game doesn't cater specifically to them?
One more place for the legion of arm-chair design experts to rant on about how Mythic did "X Y and Z" all wrong and how they, the poster, would have done it better?
One more place for people to go, demand answers, demand changes, demand explanations and then proceed to bitch about how "Mythic doesn't listen to its players" when they aren't given personal attention?
One more place for any would-be decent thread to be reduced to flame-wars and mud-slinging because people can't seem to keep a thread on topic?
If the Devs, Mark and others are actively reading and posting on places like the Alliance site and so forth, then what's any more "official" about them posting that info on their own site. Is it because it makes it feel like you're "confronting them on their own turf"? An ego thing perhaps?
Look.. the guy's put it out there... Express dissatisfaction, express anger and disappointment.. just don't do it by using vulgarity, threats or blatant insults. For those expressing phony outrage at such a suggestion, ask yourself this one question.. If you're dissatisfied with a product you've bought at a store, do you go to the store and call them every word in the book, threaten them and degrade them over it? I sure as hell hope not, or I'd say you have some serious social or communication issues.
Wanna really send a message? Cancel your sub. How many people say that right on these and other forums? Vote with your wallet. Yet when Mark Jacobs says it, there are people who will find some way to twist it around and make it sound "suspect".
The world isn't going to end if Mythic doesn't have an official forum. There are others out there that do the job just as well and, over time, one will likely rise to become the "unofficial official forums" anyway. I've seen it happen with every other MMO I've played... including those that do have official forums.
I'd love to have the problems some folks must have on these forums if something like Mythic not having official forums for WAR is enough to get you so outraged.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Mark I suppose their is a small chance you may actually read this, so here goes. This may have been said already above I dont know I dont have the time to plow through all these forums. This concerns Mythics position on having official forums.
You have to realize here that you are punishing the 95%-99% of us that are reasonable and don't abuse the fourms, but would still like a place to go to discuss the game in a reasonable manner - both in general and server specific. I am sure one such place evolves somewhere out their in the web but do I have scour the web to find it? Can't you pick one and send people their - or better yet find a way to have forums that respect your views (which I agree with) but don't punish the overwhelmingly majority of your customers because of a few idiots?
If you applied the same mentality you have here to your game itself, you wouldn't let anyone play, because a few of us players turn out to gold farmers. Obviously, this is throwing out the baby with the bathwater and you are doing the same thing with your forum policy.
A simple approach to try - you get one account on the forums automatically created when you create your account, and there is no other way to get a write priv forum account. When you go to use the forum the first time, you get a big pop-up that doesn't have endless pages of legalese that no one ever reads but has a bulleted list of 4 or 5 simple sentence that basically say - be respectful and courteous when you use this forum or you will lose your forum write privs - period.
Warhammer is going mass market. You need to appeal to people who would like an EASY place to go for information who aren't going to spend the time tracking down anything about this on the web, but if you put a good resource in front of them they will use it, be happy, and keep using their credit card to vote that you are doing a good job.
It will help you make more money.