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Put your boots on to wade thru the New Smedley interview
JestorRodo
Member UncommonPosts: 2,642
Q&A with Sony Online Entertainment’s John Smedley on making online games
Peter Suciu | September 26th, 2008
John Smedley grew up playing the “Dungeons & Dragons” fantasy-role playing board game during lunch. Today he’s president of Sony Online Entertainment. Smedley was in New York to give the keynote at the inaugural New York Games Conference, which was under extremely tight security. But it turned out they weren’t there to protect Smedley or the conference – Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the president of Iran, was actually staying at the hotel across the street. That was the backdrop as Peter Suciu, a longtime video game writer in New York, sat down to talk with Smedley about the future of online games.
VB: Sony’s EverQuest was once the most popular, most talked about online role-playing game, but its been eclipsed by World of Warcraft. Do you ever see a way that an EverQuest property can recapture that top spot and regain the crown?
JS: EverQuest is a franchise that we have a lot of faith in, it’s been around 10 years now and we’ve released “EverQuest 2″ very successfully. We’ve run both games very profitably, and they’ve made a lot of money. More importantly they’ve made a lot of players very happy. So yes, we’re investing in the EverQuest franchise for the future. And you’ll see more EverQuest games in the future. We liked the look of the crown, and we’d like to put that back on.
VB: So maybe there will be a South Park episode centered around EverQuest?
JS: It is my dream! That was one of the funniest South Park episodes [featuring World of Warcraft], and that might just have been the best South Park episode ever. Look, I’m a fan of what the guys at Blizzard are doing. I’m super impressed with World of Warcraft. So to get on South Park, that and [The Colbert Report], are the dreams.
VB: All the of the most successful MMOs have had a fantasy element. The success of those games is something that not even “Sims Online” or even “Star Wars” could match, so why is the fantasy element such a draw for gamers?
JS: It has more to do with the gameplay in them, and in the case of Star Wars I think that is an IP that can reach millions and millions of people. From our perspective, at least while we were creating, it was a different time and a place. But what we’ve seen is that gameplay has evolved so quickly to become a bit more of the casual play and less of the super hardcore that we had started with EverQuest. So that’s something we’re adapting to, and that’s why we have [the free upocming MMO] “Free Realms” and we have “DC Universe Online” and why we have The Agency. We’re broadening out our demographic to be sure that we have games that fit in a lot of different genres, and therefore appeal to a wider range of gamers. I think it is possible to do big games that don’t have to be in the fantasy space.
VB: We’ve even seen fantasy games show up, such as “Dungeons & Dragons Online,” a property that has been around longer than EverQuest or World of Warcraft yet it didn’t reach that mass appeal, why?
JS: A lot of that is a matter of quality too. You have to have some new and something really cool to appeal to people. But there have been a lot of what I would consider high caliber and high quality games that haven’t done terribly well. What it takes to have that extra spark is making sure that you take the time to do the releases right. That is something we’re focused on. We’ve been invested in this game Free Realms since 2005 and we have the best in class for free MMOs. It is coming out in January, and we’re really proud of that.
VB: What can you tell us about Free Realms?
JS: Free Realms isn’t exactly high fantasy. I’d say it is more whimsical fantasy. Think of the movie Shrek, and you wouldn’t be too far off. It is that kind of irreverent humor set in a fantasy world. But we still think that high fantasy has a key pillar spot in our company. We want to continue to invest in that, and we are doing so very actively.
VB: Costs are rising in the MMO space, but are we seeing enough players to support the games for the developers to stay profitable?
JS: First and foremost, you have to make great games. But a close second to that is run your business smart and profitably, and that’s something we’ve been doing for many years. We believe very strongly that you have the investment spending with huge negatives. And now I see a lot of venture money going to this space and a lot of it is going into chasing World of Warcraft, and what we should be focusing on is what is the next best thing. Now we’ve seen some games come in at the low, low cost and there have been some very good examples of that, such as Eve Online. They started very small with that and its grown very well. But I think we’ll see the Warhammer Onlines, and the next EverQuests. These are the high budget brands just like there are summer movie blockbusters. I think that is going to be the norm.
VB: What about other revenue streams? Is in-game advertising something we’ll see more of in the future?
JS: Sure, it already is. We’ve been partnered with Massive for a while on PlanetSide and Matrix Online. It’s making money for us, but it is a small revenue stream. Over time it will grow and the key to making it grow is putting it in front of players so that don’t piss them off. We’ve been careful not to be rude to them. If you think of the movie Bladerunner that is the ultimate way to do in-game advertising.
VB: Will we have professional gamers doing a NASCAR-like thing where they get sponsors, and sell branding on their avatars?
JS: Sure. Absolutely. In fact [in a yet to be announced game], we’ve set up some of the top gamers in that space with exactly something like that. The sad part of professional gaming is that most of them have failed. Someone puts up a bunch of money into the next gaming league, and a gamer wins $100,000 and then you two years later you don’t hear anything about that. I think what it is going to take is games that have a much wider appeal, and even World of Warcraf doesn’t have that wide of appeal. It is going to take games that have tens of millions of players, because that’s a cable audience. Now you may have the World Series on Gaming on CBS but it was on Sunday morning. That’s cool that it was on CBS, but it was so early so who was watching. But who would have thought that World Series of Poker would be on TV? Times change. When we’re hearing that 97 percent of kids in this country play games sooner or later games will have an impact when those kids are adults.
VB: And for now, where do the consoles fit in with the MMO space?
JS: Consoles for us are about the broadening the user base out, so that an audience that doesn’t typically see these sorts of games do see it. Most console gamers have PCs but the studies show that they spend most of their time gaming on their console. And so what we want to do is introduce them to these kinds of games. We think that is the simplest way.
VB: Finally, given the state of economy, is now a good time for MMOs? Will we see a “Snow Crash” effect where people might do stuff in their online adventures that they can’t do in the real world, or at least obtain stuff they might not be able to buy in the real world?
JS: What is funny about online gaming is how much people do it. Think of those players that play 20 or more hours a week, and the value they’re getting for $14.99 a month. It is a place to go that is cheaper. They don’t have to go out to a movie and buy a lot of soda or take part in other activities that cost a lot of money. It is a good spot for people that have a money issues. [Snowcrash], I think so and hope so. Maybe not quite that view of the world, but I hope we get to that level of tech. Of course without the social ills that happen because of it. But I think we can avoid that. ENDQuote
In knowing all we know , I can not help reading this without laughing.
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Comments
You are an odd duck.
Its the company I keep, Enough about me - What do you thnk about this bold face lie -
"First and foremost, you have to make great games. But a close second to that is run your business smart and profitably, and that’s something we’ve been doing for many years. -Smed"
SOE - use to have about a Million players - Now they have less then half that amount. Thats a far cry from smart and Profitably over these many years - SOE Died the day WoW appeared .
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except for the fact they're making MILLIONS in their Online division? And that they run, not 1, not 2... not even 3... but like 6 games that are all turning profit?
...and counting?
...how does that equate to "died", where it's the past tense of the current form "dying" which it is also NOT doing?
I think SOE is doing pretty good, if I had a successful company like that I'd be pretty proud.
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title.
"When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
But losing more then half of your customers is not smart and far less profitably then having over a Million of them -
To draw a comparison,WArhammer has over a half a million customers and its been out for only a few weeks now , SOE has to run 6 games to have then same amount of players - thats not smart nor profitable.
SOE is not as profitable as you think - I would sure love to see a balance sheet on them.
Unaware of the Jestor?
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I about blew my coffee out my nose.
Smed is a friggin' idiot.
Wow they're going to be investing into everquest... Seems like they are going to be making another one with a bigger number...
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
Thats the only move that makes sense sense its their Landmark franchise but they are still SOE . I don't expect much from this. DCUO and the Agency is SOE's future. Free Realms not so much.
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Sony is a publicly traded company, you can look at their quarterly balance sheet anytime you feel like it - And the online games division is usually the most profitable.
Warhammer has been out less than a week, not "a few weeks". Let's see how many it has in 2-3 months, when all the subscription bills start coming in.
WOW has by far the largest number of subscribers, but their profit margin per customer is much less, due mainly to so many cheap subs in China etc. So while Blizzard might have 10x the subscribers,they are not making anything near 10x as much money.
Sony is a publicly traded company, you can look at their quarterly balance sheet anytime you feel like it - And the online games division is usually the most profitable. Can you prove that by Sony Balance sheet? No , you can not - SOE financial numbers are buried deeper then the Ark of the Covenant in the desert government warehouse.
Warhammer has been out less than a week, not "a few weeks". Let's see how many it has in 2-3 months, when all the subscription bills start coming in. I was also counting the beta period as well which is one of the reasons for Warhammers quick success
WOW has by far the largest number of subscribers, but their profit margin per customer is much less, due mainly to so many cheap subs in China etc. So while Blizzard might have 10x the subscribers,they are not making anything near 10x as much money.
But they are making money off of SOE's mistakes and much more money then SOE Ever made with just one game.
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Yeah a company is definitly dying when they are ready to release yet 3 new games to the market, SOE must be in big trouble to be able to pull that of.
Still I am wondering why you keep advertising so much for the company you dislike?
Yeah a company is definitly dying when they are ready to release yet 3 new games to the market, SOE must be in big trouble to be able to pull that of.
Still I am wondering why you keep advertising so much for the company you dislike?
Everyones got to have a hobby , mine use to be the Pre-CU of SWG - whats yours?
Unaware of the Jestor?
http://about.me/JestorRodo/
Friends enjoy his classic Vblog - https://www.facebook.com/GoodOldReliableNathan
As for Smedleys interview, that man should be in politics, he does know how to spin doesn't he.
Yeah a company is definitly dying when they are ready to release yet 3 new games to the market, SOE must be in big trouble to be able to pull that of.
Still I am wondering why you keep advertising so much for the company you dislike?
Everyones got to have a hobby , mine use to be the Pre-CU of SWG - whats yours?
Gaming.
but from all MMORPG's ever played and or tested, same here pre-cu SWG, not one MMORPG has gotten me as that game did and I am pretty sure no MMORPG will do thatat leastt not within the next 3/5 years, even so I firmly believe that it will take another 3/5 years before they even can start making THAT MMORPG I will truly enjoy again, sure i can enjoy a few here and there but none offers the depth we players couldcreatetour selfss as SWG did.
Yeah a company is definitly dying when they are ready to release yet 3 new games to the market, SOE must be in big trouble to be able to pull that of.
Still I am wondering why you keep advertising so much for the company you dislike?
Everyones got to have a hobby , mine use to be the Pre-CU of SWG - whats yours?
Gaming.
but from all MMORPG's ever played and or tested, same here pre-cu SWG, not one MMORPG has gotten me as that game did and I am pretty sure no MMORPG will do thatat leastt not within the next 3/5 years, even so I firmly believe that it will take another 3/5 years before they even can start making THAT MMORPG I will truly enjoy again, sure i can enjoy a few here and there but none offers the depth we players couldcreatetour selfss as SWG did.
And that is the shame of it all.
Unaware of the Jestor?
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Are you new to MMO?
SoE is full of greedy and untalented folks right now, the few talented folks from SoE have long moved on.
SoE now basically bails out companies in trouble for a low price and makes a profit at the cost of the game, gameplay and their customer.
Are you new to MMO?
SoE is full of greedy and untalented folks right now, the few talented folks from SoE have long moved on.
SoE now basically bails out companies in trouble for a low price and makes a profit at the cost of the game, gameplay and their customer.
Well I'm not, you seem to proof you are new with that reply.
Free Realms is an Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game (MMORPG) being developed by Sony Online Entertainment (SOE) set in a humorous kid friendly fantasy-themed world[1] for the PC and PlayStation 3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Realms
The Agency is a spy-themed massively multiplayer online shooter. It is being developed and published by Sony Online Entertainment studios in Seattle for Windows and PlayStation 3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Agency_(video_game)
DC Universe Online or DCUO is an MMO being developed by Sony Online's Austin studio. Jim Lee serves as the game's Executive Creative Director, along with Ale Garza, Carlos D'Anda, and Scott Iwahashi. EverQuest developers Chris Cao and Shawn Lord are also involved.
Besides i was not talking about the developers I was mainly stating a fact that if a company is that much trouble why is it MAKING 3 new MMORPG, regardless what their target audience is they are making them, also regardless what I personaly feel about SOE or their games they are making those 3 afcourse with outside sources aswell but still the company is heavy involved with all three of the upcoming titles they are going to release.
These two things caught my attention the most. Firstly, that comment by smed is absolutely hilarious. You have to be kidding me. If there was a book written about making good games, or a book about how to run run a smart business, I guarantee that smed would fall into the "How not to" sections of BOTH of those books, and he tries to claim that it is one of his companies strong points. Wow...
And for that first comment, wtf? What is the interviewer talking about?
Yes, you have WoW which is a massive success and fantasy based, but beyond that... ? How many of the most successful P2P games are fantasy? Not counting WAR because it is recently released and it's numbers will die down in a bit, what else is there? Lotr wasn't very successful, DDO wasn't very successful. Wasn't Eve online second or third for most western subscriptions? Didn't SWG used to have more subs than most of the fantasy games out now? The fact that there is SO many fantasy games doens't mean they are the most successful, but simply the most abundant.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
These two things caught my attention the most. Firstly, that comment by smed is absolutely hilarious. You have to be kidding me. If there was a book written about making good games, or a book about how to run run a smart business, I guarantee that smed would fall into the "How not to" sections of BOTH of those books, and he tries to claim that it is one of his companies strong points. Wow...
And for that first comment, wtf? What is the interviewer talking about?
Yes, you have WoW which is a massive success and fantasy based, but beyond that... ? How many of the most successful P2P games are fantasy? Not counting WAR because it is recently released and it's numbers will die down in a bit, what else is there? Lotr wasn't very successful, DDO wasn't very successful. Wasn't Eve online second or third for most western subscriptions? Didn't SWG used to have more subs than most of the fantasy games out now? The fact that there is SO many fantasy games doens't mean they are the most successful, but simply the most abundant.
The interviewer was like a trainer throwing a fish to the Smedley Seal.
Unaware of the Jestor?
http://about.me/JestorRodo/
Friends enjoy his classic Vblog - https://www.facebook.com/GoodOldReliableNathan
Sony is a publicly traded company, you can look at their quarterly balance sheet anytime you feel like it - And the online games division is usually the most profitable.
Warhammer has been out less than a week, not "a few weeks". Let's see how many it has in 2-3 months, when all the subscription bills start coming in.
WOW has by far the largest number of subscribers, but their profit margin per customer is much less, due mainly to so many cheap subs in China etc. So while Blizzard might have 10x the subscribers,they are not making anything near 10x as much money.
'not making anything near 10x as much money'
Don't be too sure to that. Ever hear of economy of scale.
you realize that SOE is in complete financial security right now that they're bringing in so much money... right?
Also, if you're refering to SWG (which we all know you are)... it was well documented that at the time of the NGE the game was hemoraging players. Not just losing them, they were leaving in the thousands, per month, ANYWAYS. It was intended to revitalize the crowd to the new market of players that opened up.
Yes, it failed. New ventures and changes to companies sometimes fail.
Did it ruin SOE? no.
Did it ruin LA? no.
Did it ruin your game? in your mind, yeah.
Does your triad against the parent Publisher effect anything in the slightest? no.
Are your posts funny? YUP! But only because it just shows how incredibly pathetic gamers are sometimes...
YEARS later you're taking this change out on Developers who probably were in College with a dream to work in the game Industry, who had absolutely NOTHING to do with it. Right now some poor kid (term used lightly) is sitting at his Cubical at SOE programming a patch for a game possibly. He just wants to do his job, but you'd spit on him probably because he's inadvertently part of your personal vendetta against the company he works for.
You're not hurting SOE. They've already labeled you as clinicly insane probably... if I was SOE, I'd probably have done that too.
If you want a response you should try formal letters that are well written and articulated. Citing bad and good points, and remain calm, but steadfast, in the face of rejection and adversity.
If you want to continue your completely worthless attempts at bashing a multimillion dollar corporation who's well established, and growing, by all means. However, the longer time goes on, the less anybody will listen to you... and the less anybody will actually remember what you're talking about...
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title.
"When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
there is no denying that SOE is a profitable company. but most people think their games suck...others like it, and there are enough people who like it to make it profitable.
they are profitable because they buy up dying games, re-assign the devs or fire them, and just sponge $$ from the remaining player base.
SOE is the MMO graveyard....and if a game's not dead yet when they "acquire" it, they finish it off.
Yup- "I'm not going to tell you I suck at my job, so we have been, are and always will be successful because of my leadership". Blarg.
I played EQ for years and watched them treat players like sheep to be sheared while nerfing the uniqueness of each character until you were forced into a lockstep party formation.
Then I played EQ2 for years and watched them do even more blatant sheep-shearing and individuality-crushing, not to mention totally insulting idiocies ("Gigglegibber goblins" - omfg) that made us all out as having the mentality of 11-year-old girls.
Along the way I played Planetside for years and watched them just ignore it until it was almost dead, then appoint devs that just threw anything handy into the game to say they "updated the gameplay", and now they're trying to turn it into UT or something - like that doesn't both kill the only uniqueness the game has, plus put an oooollldd game into the arena against the newest and best like COD4. Yah, good luck with that strategy SOE.
The only conclusion I can reach is that they are exactly what they say they are - a corporation that buys properties and makes money off of them. And that's it. They are not a game company, which is about making fun happen for people in exchange for money.
In their minds, having us buy tickets, then line up neatly and wait until they choose to dispense fun is a perfect business.
In my mind, the only reason to play a virtual character in a virtual world is to experience having the opportunity to choose my own fun, whenever and wherever I want. My particular choices for fun are challenges that require me to explore, discover, overcome obstacles and difficulties that tax both my character and me, and be rewarded for my success.
SOE has proven 3x over that no matter who they assign, they are just the wrong company to be in charge of games. They should get out of the business and go do real estate or something instead, and leave entertainment to people who understand what their customers want.
"Also, if you're refering to SWG (which we all know you are)... it was well documented that at the time of the NGE the game was hemoraging players. Not just losing them, they were leaving in the thousands, per month, ANYWAYS. It was intended to revitalize the crowd to the new market of players that opened up."
Above, is the biggest load of nonsense I have seen in a while. SWG was doing quite well when they introduced NGE, servers were packed. I was playing then, there were as many players joining as leaving. In fact, many were returning as they had just released a pretty good expansion pack. As to the servers now, you can actually count the number of players on some servers, there are that few.
Can't agree more with the OP. Smedley has lead SOE into a mediocre position when they once dominated the genre. If these latest games aren't super successful, you can bet he will be gone.
I still rank Smedley as the most clueless executive in the genre, at least at a major company. He has consistently followed one bad decision after another. I am not enthralled with any of these new games they have on tap. As long as Smedley is at SOE they will be just another has been.