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Anyone else think the combat will become dull?
chryses
Member UncommonPosts: 1,453
Ok dont take this as a flame and for the record I dont mind the combat in WAR...for now.
The issue I have currently is that the best tactic I have found in a scenario is to run around in circles swinging my sword and thats about it. When I play my wizard the only option is to sit behind the tanks and shoot missiles into the enemy. Positioning is hard because you simply don't run fast enough and if you get attacked by someone much more powerful you have about 1% chance of running away so you just might as well stand there and take it. The whole concept in WAR is great but I feel combat is pretty much dumbed right down so that any fool can play it. The morale boost is a nice touch but hardly ground breaking. My biggest concern is seeing longevity in this combat system the way it is. I have seen zero tactics besides using superior numbers to swarm and from what I can tell there is no damage splash if you swing near other players like you see in AoC. Darkfall requires accurate shooting and actual aiming so WAR seems a little too simplified for me right now. Anyone else feel the same way?
Comments
No, I find the combat fun and refreshing. My wife and I are really into it.
Always change your signature.
Well the big diffrence with war's combat is, on the surface theres no strategy needed, you never really run out of action points, so it seems like a no brainer and that it will get boring.
with RvR and fighting human players, however, its not about using a conservative order of skills so that you dont waste action points, its all about what you and your team uses.
this game is team based strategy, not solo skill use strategy, although once you get a good amount of skills, youll find the skill use strategy there.
i think if the players of this game get boring, in tearms of the RvR turning into a solo kill spree then yes the combat will get boring.
i have faith that soon lots of guilds will pop up, and most players will use team based strategies in the scenarios and open field RvR.
nothings going to get boring with an ever changing requirement to use various strategies and teamwork.
if this game was a solo pve grinder, then yes the combat will get boring very quick, luckily its not.
i think that once tanks start using the player collision to their advantage, and dps's start to find their rols as not a solo kill machine, things will start to get very interesting. Right now, most of the players are using the team of one strategy, which has to be getting boring.
It's an MMO...combat is combat no matter what bells and whistles you try to put on it. Swing the sword, cast the spell, throw the dagger, cast the aoe...what else is there? It could be click on target....hit 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,etc. Or like AOC, click on target push the up arrow, left arrow, right arrow and mash the 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,etc. What else can you possibly do in an mmo to make it more exciting?
Exactly how many MMORPGS have you played? I ask because your post is, well just a bit dumb. Real time FPS style aiming does not work well in mass fights in an RPG setting, IMO.
I'm tired of seeing stuff about tactics not winning the day, it's and RPG game not an SAS simulation. It's about using your given spells and abilities against another set of abilities, and in a way that works in order to win. Numbers will always be a big advantage.
I'm so glad I am not an MMO developer these days, you people demand so much from an already well defined and refined genre. You guys seem to have no understanding of the term genre.
/rant off
Very true, the only thing i can think of to make this boring combination of repetative skill use more exciting is to use them in a team using a strategy, while your enemy is a living thinking human, and his team has a strategy for you. Thats where theres the potential for always new excitement.
You can mash the correct numbers all you want in warhammer, if your team isnt setup right, and your not working togethers, all your going to accomplish is a loss for you side with a bunch of pvp kills.
Very true, the only thing i can think of to make this boring combination of repetative skill use more exciting is to use them in a team using a strategy, while your enemy is a living thinking human, and his team has a strategy for you. Thats where theres the potential for always new excitement.
You can mash the correct numbers all you want in warhammer, if your team isnt setup right, and your not working togethers, all your going to accomplish is a loss for you side with a bunch of pvp kills.
LOTRO
well honestly i think it depends on how much you like pvping, personally i don't care for it so much, WAR gives you some things to fight for but in the end i have to ask myself, do i really wanna keep pvping the same things over and over again, its basically why i rarely pvp in WoW..dont really care for the repititiveness of it all.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
And your PvE encounters that are scripted end up any different?
@OP: Anyways, you don't run around swinging your sword the whole time. If you do that, you will be hit w/ auto-turn abilities. Learn how to counter that game mechanic by keeping their COF in the opposite direction - It will force keyboard turners to learn what a mouse is and how to look with it or they will be perfected by you. Also, you're not moving any faster or slower than anybody else majority of the time, so when you're talking about positioning, I see that you're just an average player. Positioning is ridiculously easy in this game, as I die no more than once if I don't have to sacrifice myself to get an objective completed in the game as a healer. As a melee I die either 2 or 3 times depending on how crappy my pug healers are and I generally come out with 1-3 most damage and killing blows.
As a ranged DPS it's so easy to kite in this game that it's slightly boring to play one honestly. If you people understood that kiting starts when people get into clipping range, then you would not have as many problems with death. If I'm a melee and I see a group in front of me, instantly I want to either kill a healer or a ranged DPS such as a caster. However, my target will instantly change if I'm being pre-kited because it's pointless to chase someone who is pre-kiting, no ifs ands or buts because it will lead to me extending past my healer's range. Now, that leaves me with the tanks which means nobody's going to die very soon. At the point that I am forced to turn around, you get to turn around and kill whoever is on your tanks, much like in PvE. Your healers have instant healing so they can heal while kiting until they get a chance to drop their big bombs.
That is how an encounter works out 9/10. Play a game such as DAoC or Shadowbane and this elementary stuff will blow your mind. No matter what, you will always end up alive longer than the rest of your scrubby pug if you learn how to pre-kite and do jump shots from WoW. To do this you jump into the air, spin your mouse as fast as possible to face your target while you cast an instant spell (making sure to land in the direction you were running/jumping), then when you land, jump again and whip your mouse around again to make sure that your character is facing them so that the instant spell will go off instead of giving you COF errors.
There's too much to explain, but I don't have to because you will figure out all of the micro games occurring within each battle. It's a battle of pushing, pulling, and space. It's a simple and complex thing at the same time.
Give it a try, come back, then let me know how you did.
Oh, and call for a BG (bodyguard) if you end up needing one. It's called Guard in this game and all the tanks get it. Cuts your received damage in half. Good for times when you're snared and know you will start getting hit.
Enjoy.
And your PvE encounters that are scripted end up any different?
@OP: Anyways, you don't run around swinging your sword the whole time. If you do that, you will be hit w/ auto-turn abilities. Learn how to counter that game mechanic by keeping their COF in the opposite direction - It will force keyboard turners to learn what a mouse is and how to look with it or they will be perfected by you. Also, you're not moving any faster or slower than anybody else majority of the time, so when you're talking about positioning, I see that you're just an average player. Positioning is ridiculously easy in this game, as I die no more than once if I don't have to sacrifice myself to get an objective completed in the game as a healer. As a melee I die either 2 or 3 times depending on how crappy my pug healers are and I generally come out with 1-3 most damage and killing blows.
As a ranged DPS it's so easy to kite in this game that it's slightly boring to play one honestly. If you people understood that kiting starts when people get into clipping range, then you would not have as many problems with death. If I'm a melee and I see a group in front of me, instantly I want to either kill a healer or a ranged DPS such as a caster. However, my target will instantly change if I'm being pre-kited because it's pointless to chase someone who is pre-kiting, no ifs ands or buts because it will lead to me extending past my healer's range. Now, that leaves me with the tanks which means nobody's going to die very soon. At the point that I am forced to turn around, you get to turn around and kill whoever is on your tanks, much like in PvE. Your healers have instant healing so they can heal while kiting until they get a chance to drop their big bombs.
That is how an encounter works out 9/10. Play a game such as DAoC or Shadowbane and this elementary stuff will blow your mind. No matter what, you will always end up alive longer than the rest of your scrubby pug if you learn how to pre-kite and do jump shots from WoW. To do this you jump into the air, spin your mouse as fast as possible to face your target while you cast an instant spell (making sure to land in the direction you were running/jumping), then when you land, jump again and whip your mouse around again to make sure that your character is facing them so that the instant spell will go off instead of giving you COF errors.
Give it a try, come back, then let me know how you did.
Oh, and call for a BG (bodyguard) if you end up needing one. It's called Guard in this game and all the tanks get it. Cuts your received damage in half. Good for times when you're snared and know you will start getting hit.
Enjoy.
and that's why i rarely raid either, i do quests, i like the questing in wow and war, they are nothing spectacular but i like them and i usually just explore the worlds, but as you mention that pve encounters yeah i agree they are repetitive and its why i tend to avoid them, not saying its a bad thing, people just need to decide for themselves.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
Yes, I foresaw that this 'style' game wasn't for me during beta. I always purchase the retail box anyhow and thought I might see what it was like with a few more people to play with. It was the same.
Perhaps worse, actually. At least in beta people were trying to team together and figure things out.
Anyhow, the combat doesn't get any better. It is an old old old game design. Yeah Yeah, the little fanbois are all stamping their little feeties yelling that "That is Warhammer! That is the style! You don't understand!"
Perhaps the computers and/or servers are not yet up to the task of large RvR battles with quality character movement, interesting skills and spells etc etc etc. Whatever the case, Warhammer fails.
On a side note to the poster a few above... There have been MMORPGs that had more interesting combat. I remember casting WarMagic Debuffs to make the enemy fizzle their spells. Cast away their wisdom and intellect so they had to use much lower level spells against me...
... I remember casting harm and drain spells to drain away their mana or stamina dunring combat. I would cast slow and weakness on them so they could hardly move when the weight of their armor and backpack came crashing down on them...
Yep, there are MUCH better ways of doing combat. Warhammer simply is an old game with nothing new to make combat interesting.
"The reality of the poor in America isn't the difference between The Haves and The Have Nots, it is the difference between The Haves and The Have Lots."
Exactly how many MMORPGS have you played? I ask because your post is, well just a bit dumb. Real time FPS style aiming does not work well in mass fights in an RPG setting, IMO.
I'm tired of seeing stuff about tactics not winning the day, it's and RPG game not an SAS simulation. It's about using your given spells and abilities against another set of abilities, and in a way that works in order to win. Numbers will always be a big advantage.
I'm so glad I am not an MMO developer these days, you people demand so much from an already well defined and refined genre. You guys seem to have no understanding of the term genre.
/rant off
To answer your first question, I have played too many MMO's and across all genres. The issue I have with WAR right now is that combat is too much swing swing swing. I know I will get flamed for this but I prefer Tabula Rasa over this because it was a lot more fluid and the skills were different and fun. EVE is so complicated that you cant just rush in shooting otherwise you will be owned. Jumpgate is a simulation so aiming is essential, AoC has button pushing but the feat tree creates some interesting combos and you actually need to do something in it, Neocron had some nice action and once again pretty fluid. Vanguard was ok with the skills but I had an issue with everyone having the same skills at the same level.
I do LIKE the morale boost, the career paths etc etc. I am just saying that from playing a fair bit this week I have noticed that the best tactic right now is running around swinging madly. Maybe at higher levels the skills will kick in but right now I am already running back to AoC for some decent combat. Just an observation and not knockin anyone who likes the darn game either.
Try out Spellborn to find out that
Really, It could be more intresting, almost all MMOs got the same system and there are many options. We could use the same system to swing your sword as in Oblivion for one.
Its no difference over any other one of theese games to be honest. Playing engineer is tricky as hell though since you are so bad in general. So I dont know about the other classes.
But I played EQ2 alot and enjoyed that PvP and this is only ... uh, 10 times better on the PvP part.
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
Everyone can say the combat will become stale -- ANY combat will become stale if you've consistently played it before.
That being said, your hotbar is the same in this game as pretty much every fantasy MMO. The skills have changed, the tactics have and will change. Tier 2 scenarios will rock your feeble Tier 1 world if thats all you've played.
Personal experience and tactics mean nothing without a group and each class is essentially built to protect another class, with particular abilities to assist in such.
You can argue and complain that one game is better then another but its personal opinion. You can say AoC has great combat or Spellborn will revolutionize MMO combat if you think you're fooling anyone. The combat is basically the same, just with a new gimmick.
Will Darkfall be different? Probably in some form or another, but people like all different kinds of pies.
Personally I think Warhammer has the best tasting pie I've had in a a long time. I think my particular class roll keeps the game exciting and entertaining, and my combat knowledge will only grow with my game experience. When I've come to the proverbial brick wall, I'll try another class. The special abilities make things different enough for me to be entertaining and challenging to become skillful in the correct usage of the classes that I choose to play.
Sounds like you aren't working with anyone. Get a WP to block people in melee and put a HoT on your wizard and see what happens.
Yeah I can axe a sorc with my tank because i can bust their root and snare them forever. So what? This isn't Mortal Combat or Tekken.
I held 3 tanks off an AM the other night using AoE KB and collision. Whittled one of em down and killed him. AM ran around and I screened she healed and nuked some and I whacked and disrupted.
You think its easy to block three different players at once?
You are just swinging your sword around? That is all you do? Do you lose alot? Because you should.
Yeah if you don't use any teamwork and attack randomly the combat will seem to not be very good.
Uh so the Rune preist Morale 2 that drains 200 AP and the Sword Master Sapping strike that drain 10 AP per second for 5 seconds with a 10s cooldown. Those um they don't count?
Why are there so many people with no clue what the game has who think they are the smart ones? Right they were in Beta so they must have actually taken the time to try out all the moves. Hardly.
I don't mind if people are tired of auto-target combat. But please actually have some idea of how Warhammer's auto-target combat actually works and what it actually offers if you want to criticize it so you don't get egg on yoru face. I have often criticized auto-target combat. But I am tired of people who think they are smarter than Mythic and being completely frigging wrong and obviously bad players.
And please get a grasp of the tactics if you are running around getting chased all the time with no help or randomly siwnging your sword. Or want to drain AP and thinking it impossible, the problem is you not the game.