Some people Don't realise DarkFall is FFA PvP and RvR with full loot.

GrayGhost79 · September 2008

ok I wrote this in Reply to another post and have seen this enough to think more need to hear it so I gave it, it's own thread.

People seem to forget a point, DarkFall is FFA PvP/RvR with full loot.

Alfar - Count as a sort of a realm on there own. They get a penalty* for killing other Alfar and alignment bonuses for killing any other race.

Mihirm & Orcs - Count as another realm sort of as well. They can kill any other race and recieve alignment rewards but can't kill each other without recieving penalty*

Humans, Dwarves and Mirdain - Count as yet a 3rd Realm sort of. They can kill any other race besides each other and recieve an alignment buff, kill each other they recieve penalty*

*Penalty for killing an allied race is the following.

1) Your flagged as a criminal and can freely be killed by your once allied races.

2) can not enter towns that were once friendly to you without getting attacked by guards and or other players.

3) NPC's that were once friendly to you will no longer barter with you, give you quests or allow you to learn skills from them.

The only way to bring your alignment back up is by killing races that arent within your races alliance.

This does not effect clans that are at war with another clan. They may kill the other clan members without any penalties even if there of the same race or an allied race. Your clan must have declared War for there to be no penalty.

As for the FFA PvP. Well there are no safe zones as long as people don't mind the penalty they may attack you anywhere. This does make the fair game for anyone though and NPC guards will attack them if they see them and NPC's will no longer deal with them if they were of an Allied race. If they arent of an allied race and are an enemy race they will be attacked on sight if they visit a town friendly to your race or your allied races.

This limits the ammount of Ganking that will happen to some extent which is great.

So yes DarkFall is FFA PvP

And Yes DarkFall is RvR it's just a much more complicated and intruiging RvR than has currently been seen in other MMORPG's and some either don't know this or don't understand it yet.

To me this gives a certain Difficulty to the Races.

The saffest Race's to play = Human, Dwarf and Mirdain. You have more friendly towns and less enemy races.

The meduim safety races = Orcs and Mihirm. You have more friendly area's than Alfar and less enemy races.

The least safe race to play = Alfar. Every other race is an Enemy and you have the least ammount of friendly towns. I am playing an Alfar. Why? lol simple, no matter who I kill I will get an alignment + muah haa haa haa haa. Well as long as there not another Alfar.

The difference with DarkFalls semi RvRvR style is there are no zones battles take place anywhere any time in a large seamless world. There are no set battle grounds, well there is one... It's called Agon..... lol. Its FFA PvP with a unique factions style semi RvRvR system.

Edited to Add a bit of clarrification on what I meant.

This is actualy alot more free than the FFA PvP system of UO in many ways

The way to look at it is

The Law of Humans, Mirdains and Dwarves.

Do not kill Dwarve's, Humans or Mirdains. If you do you will be frowned apon by NPC's and a penalty free target for players that are Human, Mirdain or Dwarf.

You may kill our enemies and we will celebrate you. These are Orc's, Mihirm and Alfar. (This is the part UO did not have. You get to kill these guys without being frowned apon oO)

If you do break the law and kill a Dwarf, Human or Mirdain the only way to get back into our good graces is by killing our enemies. (This allows those that have killed those of there own kind or friendly races to redeem themselves)

The Law of Orc's and Mihirm:

Do not kill Orcs or Mihirm. If you do you will be frowned apon by NPC's and become penalty free targets for players that are Orc and Mihirm.

You may kill our enemies and we will celebrate you. These are Humans, Mirdain, Dwarves and Alfar.

If you do break the law and kill Orc's or Mihirm the only way to redeem yourself is by killing our enemies.

The law of the Alfar:

Do not kill Alfar. If you do you will be frowned apon by NPC's and penalty free kill by players that play Alfar.

You may kill any other race and we will celebrate you.

If you do break the law and kill another Alfar the only way to get back into our good graces is by killing our enemies.

The system doesnt make it Non FFA PvP or limited FFA PvP. It's actually alot more free than past FFA PvP systems. You are still free to kill who you wish, but instead of getting a penalty for killing anyone that isn't a murderer, you only get a penalty for killing someone that is friendly to your race as far as the world is concerned. This is about as meaningful as PvP can get. You can kill anyone you wish like any other FFA PvP system but instead of recieving a penalty for killing anyone you only get a penalty for killing a race that is considerd friendly to yours.

UO = Killing anyone that isn't a murderer flags you as a murderer.

AoC = (If and when they implement it oO) Flags you as a criminal any time you kill or attack someone that is so many levels lower than you.

DF = Flags you ONLY if you kill your race or a race considerd Friendly to yours.

This style of system encourages ganking and discourages it at the same time. I find that extremely whicked. It seems very well thought out to please alot of people.

Some are going to kill any race - This is given, but in DarkFall this number is going to be alot lower than other FFA PvP's for the simple fact that they can get penalty free kills on enemy races oO.....

Some are only going to kill enemy race's - This is where alot of your Gankers are be. Why kill people that give penalties like any other FFA PvP system when you can kill people that not only do not flag you but raise your alignment or w/e with your people and races friendly to it?

This never takes away the option to kill your own kind or those friendly to it. It gives a penalty for doing so like any other FFA PvP but at the same time gives you people to kill that are penalty free. To me this is pure win. This system actually sounds like it had alot of thought behind it. You have the same penalty system that is semi Standard with any FFA PvP system but a whole lot more freedom.

You can kill some freely and be celebrated and you kill some that will cause you to be frowned apon. It's completely your choice. It's a standard penalty system with an extreme twist that won me over the minute I heard about it. I hope breaking it down this way made it make a bit more sense and I didn't just confuse everyone lol.

FFA PvP though = Free for all Player versus Player. There are no safe zones. You can kill them in town, if there guilded, any where any time. DarkFall more than meets this requirement lol.

GundamAce · September 2008

Actually, I did a series of polls at forumfall that suggest it will be safest to play in the Ork alliance. Right now it looks like they'll be far more interested in maintaining their allignment than the Human alliance will be.

GrayGhost79 · September 2008

Originally posted by GundamAce

Actually, I did a series of polls at forumfall that suggest it will be safest to play in the Ork alliance. Right now it looks like they'll be far more interested in maintaining their allignment than the Human alliance will be.

I am merely reffering to game mechanic wise. People's opinions change alot the mechanics are what they are. The fact that you won't be able to use towns or NPC's will take it's toll on alot of people especialy with out the standard Alt char unless you purchase an additional account.

Shoko_Lied · September 2008

This would not be the first time a MMO has been based heavily on PVP, but with penaltis and incentives to not kill you're own Kin. The atmosphere in those games arent too bad, for the most part you can walk around relevently safe with your own race. I am trying to remember what MMO/game did this. Or at least did part of this. Oh yeah. AOC. The 1 similar element i remember. When walking around doing quests or hunting, you are often red to people and they are red to you, but often more than not, you just leave them alone. Of course you can gank them if you like, but there is often player understanding, and they go about there business. I think with the added "Negative hit to alignment" and the becoming "contested to your own" You will se alot less inter racial gankage. It will happen, its just it wont seem like a complete ingame FFA right in the home town. Of course at the initial release of the game, they will be body's flying every direction, but after the community settles down, it wont be nearly as bad. But there will alwayys be a "risk" taken when anywhere. Oh yes, I forgot the other game i was thinking about. WoW had this sense in some parts. Say you where in neutral "gadgetzan" Every single alliance and horde where still contested to eachother, but it was not a complete mess of destruction because if you attacked an opposing member you would get raped by neutral guards. Also when questing in open contested areas, there where often times with a inconceivable high level player would run by me able to completely blow me away in 1 hit, and they would just wave and keep on going. This situation happened about half the time, the other half they would gank me. So I would say probly 50% of people with the option to gank you will not, and the other half probly will think about it and then rape you. Thinking about it, WoW was pretty carebare compared to DF, so saying if it was a 50% chance of being ganked in WoW, id say it would be much higher, 80%+ or something, but thats whats so nice because in, they cant even do that much if they dont have real "skill" Or at least you as the newbie will have an option of going down with a good fight. And thats just outside of the towns are areas, but the land is so vast, you could probly lead a ganker on a cat and mouse chase for hours.

Morrdread · September 2008

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

ok I wrote this in Reply to another post and have seen this enough to think more need to hear it so I gave it, it's own thread.
People seem to forget a point, DarkFall is FFA PvP/RvR with full loot.
Alfar - Count as a sort of a realm on there own. They get a penalty* for killing other Alfar and alignment bonuses for killing any other race.
Mihirm & Orcs - Count as another realm sort of as well. They can kill any other race and recieve alignment rewards but can't kill each other without recieving penalty*
Humans, Dwarves and Mirdain - Count as yet a 3rd Realm sort of. They can kill any other race besides each other and recieve an alignment buff, kill each other they recieve penalty*
*Penalty for killing an allied race is the following.
1) Your flagged as a criminal and can freely be killed by your once allied races.
2) can not enter towns that were once friendly to you without getting attacked by guards and or other players.
3) NPC's that were once friendly to you will no longer barter with you, give you quests or allow you to learn skills from them.
The only way to bring your alignment back up is by killing races that arent within your races alliance.
This does not effect clans that are at war with another clan. They may kill the other clan members without any penalties even if there of the same race or an allied race. Your clan must have declared War for there to be no penalty.
As for the FFA PvP. Well there are no safe zones as long as people don't mind the penalty they may attack you anywhere. This does make the fair game for anyone though and NPC guards will attack them if they see them and NPC's will no longer deal with them if they were of an Allied race. If they arent of an allied race and are an enemy race they will be attacked on sight if they visit a town friendly to your race or your allied races.
This limits the ammount of Ganking that will happen to some extent which is great.
So yes DarkFall is FFA PvP
And Yes DarkFall is RvR it's just a much more complicated and intruiging RvR than has currently been seen in other MMORPG's and some either don't know this or don't understand it yet.
To me this gives a certain Difficulty to the Races.
The saffest Race's to play = Human, Dwarf and Mirdain. You have more friendly towns and less enemy races.
The meduim safety races = Orcs and Mihirm. You have more friendly area's than Alfar and less enemy races.
The least safe race to play = Alfar. Every other race is an Enemy and you have the least ammount of friendly towns. I am playing an Alfar. Why? lol simple, no matter who I kill I will get an alignment + muah haa haa haa haa. Well as long as there not another Alfar.

I think id would better be worded Faction vs faction, because there will be no seperate zones or servers to compete with in an seperate instanced area. saying RvR will turn off alot of people who want nothing to do with instancing.

Faction vs Faction. All in 1 zoneless world, competeing only against people in that server.

Boreil · September 2008

In some ways yes it can be seen as an RvR game ,but its not restricted to this type of gameplay , eq2/wow are more rvr games that DF. In DF you are not stuck with your faction , clans can have any race they chose in their guild , and being "kos" to your own race and city's isnt the end of the world , you can rely on player /clan citys to ge by in the world , and many "all race " clans will do this . Yes its faction-v-faction or race-v-race or realm-v-realm how ever you wanna see it , but its the players decision, while there are 3 distinct "realms" if your looking just at the races that are friendly with other,but players will chose their own path, many making their own "realms" .

GrayGhost79 · September 2008

Originally posted by denshing

This would not be the first time a MMO has been based heavily on PVP, but with penaltis and incentives to not kill you're own Kin. The atmosphere in those games arent too bad, for the most part you can walk around relevently safe with your own race. I am trying to remember what MMO/game did this. Or at least did part of this. Oh yeah. AOC. The 1 similar element i remember. When walking around doing quests or hunting, you are often red to people and they are red to you, but often more than not, you just leave them alone. Of course you can gank them if you like, but there is often player understanding, and they go about there business. I think with the added "Negative hit to alignment" and the becoming "contested to your own" You will se alot less inter racial gankage. It will happen, its just it wont seem like a complete ingame FFA right in the home town. Of course at the initial release of the game, they will be body's flying every direction, but after the community settles down, it wont be nearly as bad. But there will alwayys be a "risk" taken when anywhere.

AoC has no penalty for killing your own kind....AoC doesn't have any form of meaningful PvP at all imo and no I never said it was a completely unique concept but the fact it is combining RvR with FFA PvP and full loot was. I honestly can't think of another game that has done this. There may be one or two out there but I've never heard of it. You are correct about bodies flying everywhere right after launch though lol or Public beta after that alot will come down. The risk needs to always be there, it's what gives gameplay that edge. At any moment you may be killed and looted, even in town (Although not very likely).

AoC is a has taken features from other games and combined them very baddily imo so it's a bad comparison. Combat system from DDR ( Dance Dance Revolution) There's even a vid of a guy using a DDR pad to play AoC lol.

Kyleran · September 2008

So what your really saying is, Darkfall is not FFA PVP, but rather a controlled PVP environment.

This isn't a bad thing, and few games don't have some sort of control on PVP, just a matter of degree is all. Yes, I know, you can kill members of your own alliance, so that technically makes it FFA, but I consider penalties such as this limitations on a player's freedom, hence less of a FFA game than it could be.

Old school Mordred server in DAOC was more of a FFA PVP server, you could kill anyone, of any race at any time outside of the main cities except for your own guildmates.

ghoul31 · September 2008

I don't like the racial penalties. This game is supposed to be about freedom. You should be able to kill anyone you want. You should be able to make allies with whoever you want. You shouldn't have automatic allies

Boreil · September 2008

Originally posted by ghoul31

I don't like the racial penalties. This game is supposed to be about freedom. You should be able to kill anyone you want. You should be able to make allies with whoever you want. You shouldn't have automatic allies

The freedom is in the players hands , some races are friendly with other and some are not , but its not like your in some forced permanent alliance, and a faction system and penalty's for killing friendly races unpravoked only makes sense .

You can go to a Hooters and sure they are friendly with you , but they are not your "ally", they are not "on your side" and if you start Pk'ing Hooters girls im pretty sure you aint getting back in .

There will be many clans with all kinds of racial combo's , specialy RP clans. you will see all ork clans who kill marhim and maybe even other orks just based on their RP backgrounds , or all elf guild who attack any race based on Rp reason or dwarf/human guild ho dont elfs or elf/human guild's who dont like dwarfs , there will be alfair who mingle with any race , or some who dont like any race , including their own outside their own clan , the possibilitys are vast thats where the freedom comes in . The races that are friends by default are just backing for the world and how it works and how the lore background is, the rest is up to us .

GrayGhost79 · September 2008

Originally posted by Kyleran

So what your really saying is, Darkfall is not FFA PVP, but rather a controlled PVP environment.
This isn't a bad thing, and few games don't have some sort of control on PVP, just a matter of degree is all. Yes, I know, you can kill members of your own alliance, so that technically makes it FFA, but I consider penalties such as this limitations on a player's freedom, hence less of a FFA game than it could be.
Old school Mordred server in DAOC was more of a FFA PVP server, you could kill anyone, of any race at any time outside of the main cities except for your own guildmates.