Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
How to competely fail a beta test
Kandaje
Member Posts: 5
Greetings...
This is for the current generation of so-called game designers and quasi programmers who seem to be inflicting the online game genre with their still-borne abominations. It's just a simple list of V-8 moment rules of thumb, A.K.A. Common sense - that apparently is no longer quite so common...
Alpha testing is testing the interface - Not the content. If you're injecting new content every day - you're moving too fast.
Beta Testing is testing content and balance - Not the interface. If you're still mucking around with the interface - You're NOT in Beta - You're still in Alpha.
If your game is a FPS - primarily using mouse and keyboard, and you neglected to put an invert mouse check box choice in - You are doomed to failure. At least half the people on the planet - want the mouse to move the other way...
Every commercially acceptable operating system these days is based on a user modifiable windowed interface of some type. Why are you clowns still pretending user interfaces should be hard coded?
There is an ancient wisdom that says: Build your house on a foundation of rock. NOT sand. In other words - Get the interface down and working, all the little non-sexy details FIRST. Things like inventory management, user feedback to choices, collision detection, etc. Probably the single MOST important detail of ANY online game no matter what the genre is INVENTORY managment. If you screwed that up - your entire game is screwed. An example: NWN-1 Beautiful inventory system. NWN-2 - absolutely hideous inventory system - That's all it took for me to uninstall NWN2 - one look at the hideous inventory...
If your game is a Space game - Make this simple comparison: Are your Ships - basicly a 1964 Volkswagon beatle armed with a BB gun, running around in a walmart parking lot? (because nearly every space game is exactly just that). If it is - please- don't bother...
Nearly every online game these days, suffers from exactly the same problem. Uberism. Instead of rewarding cleverness, organizational skills, creativity and game play skills - virtually all games rely on an ever expanding absurdity threshhold. The Uber-Arms vs Uber-Armor Vs Uber-Mob race. AKA - Grinding. Requires no skill, and creates an unrealistic unsatisfying economic nightmare where as soon as you get the next uber thingy - everything less becomes worthless.
Any Skills based character system that allows anyone to get good at everything - is a BAD system.
In game Death - SHOULD mean that you have to start all over again with a new character - Otherwise, it's meaningless. Unfortunately, economic reality disallows that option in any game that one has to pay to play. But it WOULD tend to lead to more conservative and REALISTIC game play wouldn't it?
At last count - there are at least 117 known elements. Any trade game should take that simple fact into account...
If what you know about actual real world firearms is only what you know from movies and TV - make a pizza delivery game instead. - PLEASE???
I could go on - but, I've probably already lost 90% of the ADD crowd...
Comments
No. . .
_______
|___
\_______/
=
|X| \*........*/ |X|
|X|_________|X|
You wouldn't understand
Where to go with this one!
First off, there is so much opinion here that it's very hard to read without arguing several points. However, you border on being extremely well written and wanting to just spout nonsense. "Still-borne abominations"? If it wasn't for such interjections I would say it was a very well written piece. But then you start interjecting your opinion about permadeath which has nothing to do with your original statment.
And does every modern game really allow for a completely modifiable interface? It's not clear how far that is to go but if you mean adding the player's own features then there is another argument there.
All that aside, your point is pretty good (the original point) that game companies seem to go into beta with many issues that seem to be things that should have been fixed in alpha. You are also very right about such things as inventory management. I imagine anything that woudl be considered bare nuts and bolts systems would also fit.
So a hard post to read. It's not clear that you want to talk solely about "bad betas" and that you want to also discuss your more personal ideas about what makes a good game. Which I'm sure many won't agree with.
edit: I do agree with your assessment about skills based systems though. But that has nothing to do with the title of "failed betas".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Dear OP, the terms alpha and beta, when referring to game testing, are simply that. They are terms.
Most in the industry consider alpha to be a rough working copy, and beta to be playable platform.
I lost interest in your post when I realised you didn't know that.
Darwa is right.
Games played:
Runescape -------------- www.runescape.com
Magic of the Gods ------ www.magicofthegods.com
Saga of Ryzom ---------- www.ryzom.com
World of Warcraft ------- www.worldofwarcraft.com
A vivid and dynamic game engine is an important factor for the game to succeed. This will be a really important factor in order to get the natural flow shine through in making of the game.
Then when you have a good game engine prepared, you will have to make tools that are uber easy and fast to handle. The better the tools, the more chance you have of adding/modifying content and fixing bugs on the fly.
NOW to the most important factor of all things! The conscious thought patterns are very limited, and is said to only use 4-6% of your brain capacity. There is no way you will be able to create the next BIG game if you dont connect to the subconscious while working out the ideas. You need the right guys for this. The right guy would be able to know where hes ideas comes from, if it comes from the conscious limited patterns or the vivid and dynamic sunconscious patterns. This is EXTREMLY vital for your game to go beyond other games made today.
Now the bottom line, I have yet to see a game that utilize their fully potential yet. But the closest one in my opinion is World of Warcraft, which set a benchmark for everything from how interface, chat colors, smoothness and dynamic feel should be in a game. Still I would not recommend any game company to be enslaved by Blizzards model of success. And that is why it is so important to use your feel while putting your idea into reality.
Who knows, some day I may help people realize their full potential.
You lost your credibility, for me at least, when you emphasized "REALISTIC."
Just poor word choice; you should have stuck with a word such as "fun" or "enthralling." Then this reply of mine wouldn't exist.
---
What is forgotten is forever immortal.
Greetings...
What can I say - The only replies I get are from exactly the kind of commercial RUBES that the Game Developing communitiy just absolutely LOVES.. Idiots willing to hemmorrage cash to see their latest eye candy pets do tricks on screen....
Let's see - we have the Psuedo-Techno Guru who thinks that the terms Alpha and Beta are just meaningless nebulous terms that don't actually mean ANYTHING - and thus completely dismisses my entire argument.
Then we have the Pseudo- REALIST who thinks he knows the meaning of the term realism -
Let's see - I define realism in a game as "Suspension of disbelief" Factor - as in - As it works in the real world.... For example - In Anarchy Online, it's really hard to find a rifle that can shoot some supposedly-high tech nugget of whatamacallit further than I can fling a rock IN THE REAL WORLD - Now for you liberally educated MORONS - thats about 100 yards - however in AO - about the farthest range you are going to find in any weapon is 35 meters... Thats just under 40 yards. In the REAL WORLD - I can bullseye a coke bottle sized MOVING target (prairie dogs) at 700 yards with 19th century technology Gun-cotten driven lead slugs. As I said in my OP - If what you know about fire arms is based on what you learned watching TV - Dont even bother....
Again, when you actually PAY ATTENTION to the "in-game" speed of your typical "Car-Wars" Space Jockey, cattle car gallactica - Pig's in Space - type game, you'll discover that you're usually maxing your speed out at about 55 METERS per second - thats about the top speed of a 1964 Volkswagon - and your weapons range is about that of your typical bb gun that you can get in any walmart - in who's parking lot - the usual GALAXY is about as big as. Again, since most of you didn't actualy pay attention in sophomore chemistry and physics class - you morons probably arent aware of this simple lesson in REALITY...
And you morons are trying to argue that THAT'S realism,,,,
Well, maybe in YOUR deluded dissasociated worlds - It is...
Fact check: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_stage
Alpha: Send the software to internal QA teams.
Beta: Send the software to a limited or unlimited number of external users for testing.
As far as I know (in all my 10 years of software development experience) there are no hard and fast rules as to what can be changed when.
Life of an MMORPG "addict"
For 7 years, proving that if you quote "fuck" you won't get banned.
Greetings...
Well, in my THIRTY odd years of Software design and development - INCLUDING multiplayer games -
Once it's out of House - and actually ON-LINE taking customers and accounts recievables....
ALPHA-TESTING is working all the BUGS out of the interface.
BETA-TESTING is working on active content and play balance.
Maybe in your deluded universe - where you don't actually read what writen and just make unfounded assumptions and completely dismiss any given FACTS - it's a different story...
That's the problem with todays liberally educated, over-feminized morons... No ability to actually pay attention to what is happening around them. Just idiotic assumptions about what they FEEL SHOULD be going on.... Too many pillows - not enough rocks...
And you probably have no idea what I mean by that either.... <Sheesh>
Alpha and beta is not just for software, other bussiness use it too. Remeber the card game "Magic the gathering"? The apha of it had odd pictures randomly put out on them but you could still play it.
I know computer games that use the same way, the alpha is still supposed to be at least semi playable, it is the first testing of the mechanics. It is the game testing before the closed beta.
They are called alpha and beta because they test the same thing but the beta reach out to more players. Now they have also added the open beta to many game which takes in even more players but more seems like a comercial trick and to test the server capacity.
Now your company might have other terms than many other how things work but there is no reason to be rude because of that.
Greetings...
Tragic The Garnering - The Insipid card game that Dealt the Death blow to real Board and War games... This is the best you can come up with? The commercial destruction of mom and pop game stores all over the entire planet?
Hmm...
Well, the ONE thing you have to admit - I've certainly got your attention... heheheheehe
Look - I'm not talking about Colico cartridge games, or the various failed marketroid - "My Mexican Girlfriend" [Amiga] trash....
I was once (20 some odd years ago) a million dollar a year general (including games) software salesman - That's a heck of a LOT of commision! I might add! Manager of a national chain software store.... [Egghead Discount Software - Heck I even still have some of my old business cards!]
Havent you ever wondered WHY those kinds of stores are NO LONGER found anywhere except in the very biggest cities? They used to be everywhere for God's sakes...
It's because Software is now just what it always should have been -
To make a long story short - Free... What CAN'T you download/Torrent/Crack/hack etc.... For Free?
Unfortunately - The quality of the software has slipped a bit...
That's my point...
Is it because it's being ripped off? Well, the INDUSTRY would like you to think so - But that's not it....
I'll tell you why...
The Programmers these days are idiots...
Morons...
They don't have a freaking clue.
They never took the classes in Game Theory ( a REALLY difficult subject BTW - I DARE you to just go to your local library and actually READ a book on Game Theory - It isn't what you think it is...
Logic, etc... They've taken the language classes - but they are morons. Everything is pre-built - Prefabbed - They invent NOTHING...
They have NO clue what a GAME is... The ONLY thing they are concerned about is Profit.
And that's the problem.
YOU aren't doing your part -
The Equation is SUPPLY and DEMAND.
THEY Supply - You're supposed to demand but all YOU do is Consume - all the Shoveled Shite they want to toss your way. All the little incremental improvements - You got suckered into buying that $300 NEW Graphics card to play the EXACT same game you played 3 months ago!!! Only now it's got 500X the number of pixels and needs the new gollywogger pixel pumpers and Anistropic shaders...
But the GAME hasn't changed...
There is NO Game in the Box...
You fools...
First off, 30 years software developing experience? That would put you back in 1988. Basically back when most were using actual "floppy" disks. The real big shots used the new laser discs. Atari was king. Nintendo was just coming onto the horizon for many. There were few video games on the market, and none of them using a "massive" style of play.
I say all this, because I am calling you out on your lie right there. Your above post was nothing more than what many 14 year olds are crying for nowadays, and filled with "I want this, this, and this- and unless you make it the way I want to make it, you are a failed company". You also are older than 50, if you have even been doing this for 30 years. IBM, HP, and most other software companies were only taking people with graduate degrees in computer science at the time. Unless you were what Doogie Howser was based off of, again at the time, you don't know <edited>.
-----------------------
Tried- L2, Ryzom, WAR, DDO, PWI, Tab Rasa, Requiem, Champs, AA, JD, PWI, SUN, Dawntide
Played- SWG (pre-cu), AoC, VG, WoW, LoTRO,CoX, EQ2, DAOC, GW, PotBS, Aion, MO,APB, NASA, Fallen Earth, DCUO, Rift
Playing- EVE, Black Prophecy, TOR
Waiting for- Tera, Jumpgate Evo, WH40K, WWE, WOD, TSW
--
--
"Hey, if Activision liked it, then they should have put a ring on it," Double Fine President Tim Schafer said. "Oh great, now Beyonce is going to sue me too."
This guy can't be serious.
First of all, you want these games to have a very high level of "realism" Shooting guns and hitting targers 100s of yards a way may be accurate in real life. But its not fun or fair in an online game. Sitting on a hill and waiting for people to walk by in the distance and then shooting them while they can't even see you is not a mechanic that should exist in any game.
Perma-death... Where to begin... Everyone has died in MMOs. People work hard on their characters and eventually develop a sort of a "bond" with them, then they make a mistake and die and lose everything they've spent months getting... No, this is not a good MMO mechanic on any level. People often play games to have fun and get away from reality. Not to similate it.
As your definitions of Alpha and Beta testing...
Alpha testing is testing the implamentation of the UI, you are correct in that statement. However the game concent is also being tested in alpha and by the time Beta comes around, the game is nearly finished and should not have any large additions or changes. (Of course things can always happen. I.E. A mechanic in the game does not work well or is not fun when being used by a large population.)
Beta testing is the testing of the game for bugs, glitches server stress and the like. There will not be a lot of new content added to the game.
As for saying that "Any Skills based character system that allows anyone to get good at everything - is a BAD system." - That is purely your opinion. These systems allow people who are less skilled or have less time to play the game to be competitive with the skilled players or people who have no jobs... Sounds to me like you're someone who thinks you're better than everyone else and is tired of being killed by other players.
MUCH of your post is purely opinion, and many of your other statements are incorrect. Please don't pretend to be a game designer or tell others how to do their jobs. You clearly lack the necessary skills to do so.
You may be very knowledgeable about the internet, different computer languages and things to that nature. But these game companies are out to make a game that is most of all fun. Now I realise that people have different opinions on what is fun.(like you think permanent death is fun) However most people agree on a few things that are NOT fine. Perma death in a video game being one of them. Unfair advantages being another.
I do agree with you on one very important point that you made though... And this is a very, very large point.
They are concerned about profit! Yes, profit is what makes the world go round and the reason for just about EVERY business venture. The programmers themselves are not the ones so concerned about profit, its their bosses. The ones pulling the strings, and the investors most of all. The game HAS to make money, and to do that, It has to be fun.
- - "What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?" - -
Greetings...
No - I just want them to PLAY in a realistic fashion. When I pick up a Gun - I want to be able to do in the game, AT LEAST what I can do in REAL LIFE. My earlier example of the absurdity of Anarchy Online Or any other so called RPG - (no one ever actually ROLE plays - havent you noticed?) and it's Stones throw useless weapons. Or the standard Absurd volkswagon with a bb gun in a parking lot cattlecar gallactica pigs in space typical game...
There is NO critter on the entire planet earth that can survive even ONE well placed bullet using only 19th century technology - optical and chemical... NOT even the largest - The Blue Whale can take a perfectly placed bullet and live to tell the tale - Yet EVERY Online game these days is based on that Demonic representative - Gary Gygax's Tottally Absurd - HIT POINT system. It's completely and tottally USELESS and, I dare say - Unrealistic. No Sh&t - I celebrated that MF's Death last year - That demonic abomination did more damage to gaming than any other creature in all of hells history. Satan himself no doubt hold that hideous critter Gygax in a place of honor...
Critters - Including we clever monkeys, don't have hit points...
There is NO such thing as randomness in the universe...
The only DIE ROLLS that exist - are when you actually roll dice...
Every action and reaction that takes place is based on physical laws that can be easily and quickly computed with todays equipment - the ONLY this lacking is :
The INability of Today's Moronic programmers!!! Who failed Physics, chemestry and logic - yet somehow managed to pass C++ and got a job anyway - when they SHOULD be digging ditches and living on the river in a tent...
They invent nothing! There is NOTHING new - There are NO new games....
Tell me - Other than the usual financial quarterly improvement in eye candy ( that forces you to go out and hemorrage yet another $300 to upgrade your graphics card) - What is there really ANY difference between - Name the latest FPS that just got released yesterday - and DOOM 1 (Circa 1993) ...
I dare you to even consider that there are TOO many other comparisons to even mention... Except that idiot who thinks that Coleco cart games or PONG actually qualify as games....
Todays latest and greatest is just another made up pig of something invented nearly 20 years ago!!!
Back when MY generation was actively coding ....
When there were brains behind the fingers on the keyboards....
You script kiddy clowns today - You know nothing!!!!
And I blaim YOU -
You current crop of cash bleeders who joyously and willingly puke your hard earned federal reserve notes - to pay for this re-tread shovelware!!!
You have more money than sense.
It's YOUR fault that I'm not playing the games that I wanted to play 20 years ago!
LOL!!! hehehehehe
Where are the flying cars? We were promised Flying cars!!! <smirk>
Because it's YOU (collectively - not YOU personally) driving the moron market!! The Dumbed down to the lowest common denominator game!!! You have NO clue!!!
It's an interesting discussion at least - have you lately seen anything even approaching this level of thought and reasoning here lately? I mean don't we need a break from the usual Fanboise insanity? I'm just a little dissapointed that after what? 8 hours not even one of you clowns has come up with even a cogent counter-argument. That's just sad...
I stopped buying games 15 years ago... Because there is NO game in the box that I dont already have. That I didn't already buy (or invent myself) nearly 20 years ago.
You sad pathetic generation of fools. You have invented nothing. Your only accomplishment is putting makeup on some old pig...
Still you. First off, in 1988 Darpanet (that wasn't even the name of it, btw) was little more than a giant calculator analyzing a small spectrum of data signals being sent between very few navy ships and air force bases- all of which were close range and closer to being an "entranet" than an "internet". The net was in it's primordial infancy. You didn't do that in high school, because no high school in the country had a computer. More over, no garage in the country save one, had a computer that could fit into it. That one, happened to belong to a young William Gates- circa '81. And that was just barely.
2. There was no such thing as "email", even on military's "net" in 1981-2. There wasn't the storage copacity for anything like it on the on-board computers. Yes back then, the only computers around were the oversized Texas Instruments and IBMs that school kids today carry in their credit card holders. Now you want us to believe that some pimply faced 19 yr old (at best) in 1982, had a " superduper top secret meeting with G.I. Joe" to discuss how they are complete idiots and you are the god of computers, that you are the answer to all of their problems? Yea.... keep trying. If even half of the story were true, you would have been hired on the spot, then kept in a government basement for the next 30 years to continue to develop their most "superduper top secret" programs- at least as far as computer code goes. A more likely story would have been that you would have been found by a foriegn national (the soviets were REALLY trying hard for this kind of stuff back then), and ferreted off to their country where if you were not still working for them today, you would possibly be dead. Actually, that could have also happened in the U.S., but I digress.
Hacking only became a garage sport in the early 1990s. By none other than LISA enthusiasts. Now sir, you might have had the time to do a little research on the internets to sort of get your dates right, but your substance- is flat. Al Gore was more convincing than you, with his credentials.
Sorry Chuck, you are no Neo. And this is the last crumb I am feeding you.
-----------------------
Tried- L2, Ryzom, WAR, DDO, PWI, Tab Rasa, Requiem, Champs, AA, JD, PWI, SUN, Dawntide
Played- SWG (pre-cu), AoC, VG, WoW, LoTRO,CoX, EQ2, DAOC, GW, PotBS, Aion, MO,APB, NASA, Fallen Earth, DCUO, Rift
Playing- EVE, Black Prophecy, TOR
Waiting for- Tera, Jumpgate Evo, WH40K, WWE, WOD, TSW
--
--
"Hey, if Activision liked it, then they should have put a ring on it," Double Fine President Tim Schafer said. "Oh great, now Beyonce is going to sue me too."