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Name one mmo that doesn't contain a grind
Z3R01
Member UncommonPosts: 2,426
Grind = Repetative task done to achieve a goal.
Killing mobs for Xp = grind
Filling and refilling quest logs for rewards/Xp/gold = Grind
Crafting items over and over to have the ability to make better items over and over = Grind
Killing players in pvp over and over for loot/Xp/Some type of pvp currency = Grind
Running the same dungeon/PQ/BG/Arena/lair for a item/ability = grind
MMORPG= Grind, Once players relize this they will finally stop bitching about grinds in mmos.
Playing: Nothing
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Comments
I guess most people refer to grind games as games where you just grind your way to max level with no other content except killing stuff, where as in other games you have alot of other stuff to do.
Exactly. There are a few other things to do in most games, but they usually go back to relying on the grind anyways (such as crafting).
There are so many other things that games could involve in the play, but they don't. The problem is that developers come from making single player and multiplayer games, and they really don't understand anything outside of that box.
Players too. Most of them get lost as soon as you ask them to make a basic decision such as, "what shall I do"?
Once upon a time....
Eve?
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
well, there's a difference between a mind-numbing, painful grind, and an almost imperceptable grind.
IE, some games have systems in place that make the inevitable grind almost unnoticable, since you have having fun the entire time.
Then, there are other games where you want to eat your own face due to the pain and monotony.
SO, yeah...grind is an integral part of the MMO experience....however, it's implementation makes all the difference.
Take the Hecatomb TCG What Is Your Doom? quiz.
I Beleive Lord of the Rings Online would fit most of those besides the crafting part for weaponsmith, armorsmith and i think one other, but on my one level 50 character i had not had to grind at all if you got quest to do.
Abrahm, EVE has a grind for money, reputation, equipment, and/or materials, it does however skip out on the level grind, so it does earn some credit in that area.
Bear in mind though, going by this definition, nearly every single game in existence has a grind, and the few exceptions are some of the less complex FPSs and games as simple as Pong.
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Hemingway
Your definition of grind is horribly flawed.
Grind- must involve an unpleasant or work (labor) oriented element.An element that makes you overly realize and focus on what your doing.
Repetitive things can be very non-grinding when we enjoy them, and hence do them for that enjoyment.
The problem with MMOs is that the dev teams have little to no idea how to make them actually fun.Part of which is the "any monkey can win" approach.Becuase when winning is all but assured, there is no joy or thrill in it for very long.
They turn what could and should be accomplishment and fun, into grind.
Even losing can be fun,but of course its totally beyond them to accomplish this, since they cant even make winning fun.
I guess you could say it was a quest grind. But the quest were so good it didn't feel like a grind.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day.
And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
I think the problem is that people are wanting less grind these days where they can max level in a couple weeks.They play games with quick gratification and wonder why they get board with a game all of a sudden.A game where it might take a few years to max a characters level you would have a lot more pride in that charater and enjoy the game more,it would be more of a challenge and sense accomplishment.Sadly these games are going by the wayside.
...Long live Ac 1 before exp chains... !
Your post is wrong.
If it's wrong explain ur self.
If a grind is fun or not isn't the point.
The point is mmos are a grind I didn't say people didnt find repetative tasks fun.
Just cause you may enjoy a mmos grind doesnt mean it isnt called a grind.
I really don't see how my initial post was flawed, maybe someone can tell me why?
Eve has a Isk,crafting and reputaion grind and Lotro has a Quest and Crafting grind.
Let me ask you this, If we take the grind element out of MMOrpgs whats left? a loading screen?
Doesnt make much sense to complain about grind when the whole genre is one.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
Grind is caused due to a persons play style, it has nothing to do with the game but all to do with HOW a persons plays and perceives a game. But I already know for a fact that many do not understand this and will always blame a game for having grind, mainly due to their own playstyle.
MMORPG = NOT grind
Playstyle is what causes grind.
There is some grind in Lotro. I haven't played the game in over a year now, but I remember killing the same mobs for over a week to collect my legendary skill chapters. There was also trait grinding if you wanted specific traits for your character. Crafting wasn't so much a grind, but it was hyper competitive (upon release) so certain mats were hard to come by. Having said that, the quests in Lotro are great and the game as a whole feel much less grindy than most others. I have a lifetime sub so I'll probably pick up the game again when the exp comes out.
Doing something you don't enjoy to achieve a goal is exactly where the term grind came from. Even though people use the term far more loosely now, a grind is still doing something you do not like. If all you can see or do in an MMO is grind, then perhaps you should look for another type of entertainment.
While you are right, there are some games that are nothing but pure grind as the core game design, any game can be made into a grind. Some games however are entertaining enough that they aren't a grind to play.
Killing mobs for xp = grind? That covers just about every video game in existance doesn't it?
Grind = repetitive boring/monotonous task that you don't like to achieve a goal. The first part can be factual, the second part is completely subjective. Thus all MMO's contain a grind, or none of them do, depending on your point of view.
I should just copy, paste these responses.
Venge Sunsoar
Man you sure got me stumped on this one. I can't name an MMO that doesn't fit at least one or all the categories of grind you specified in the OP. Well that's awesome I guess if they provide a fun grind and other crap to do on the side I can keep on enjoying MMOs like I have been for years. Oh but wait I've never been one to complain about grind in the first place. If an MMO didn't have some kind of grind we'd all start out and max lvl with the best weapons and armor. And then you couldn't feel that satisfaction of being better then everyone else because you spent more time playing a game then they did.
Your post applies to any game in the world.
FPS: Kill xx enemy = Grind
Racing: Race the same track = Grind
RTS: Defeat the same fraction again and again = Grind
Games (no matter what kind) is a product to entertain for x hours by doing the same thing again and again.
If there were no "grind" games would only last 10 min, and 5 of them is the intro movie.
Second Life.
Remove levels and experience points and you wont have a grind but I guess that 99.6% of the people that reads this wouldnt like such a game, afterall you guys just love to reach for the max level and get the best equipment possible.
Your post applies to any game in the world.
FPS: Kill xx enemy = Grind
Racing: Race the same track = Grind
RTS: Defeat the same fraction again and again = Grind
Games (no matter what kind) is a product to entertain for x hours by doing the same thing again and again.
If there were no "grind" games would only last 10 min, and 5 of them is the intro movie.
thank you
"Grind"
I hate that word but it applies to many MMO's. I don't think its the fact that you need to do something repetitive so much as whether or not it is challenging and fun to do.
No one minds doing something repetitive if they enjoy it. We play games for pleasure and recreation fo rthe mostpart.
IMHO, MMORPGs have had a very difficult time packing the grind into something enjoyable and challenging to do. The kill task generators that most MMOs rely on don't really do anything but create a barrier to gameplay people would rather do in most cases. WoW is a great example. Leveling is such a pointless task, they may as well remove it as the game really starts once you hit level cap. So why have it?
Now that doesn't necessarily have to be the case. The problem from my standpoint is that to many MMOs are designed from the ground up with "endgame" as the focus. Leveling is nothing more then a boring and repetitive "grind" that doesn't really add anything to gameplay as it is currently designed. MMO's are suppose to be RPGs which are alternate fantasy worlds that you adventure in. MMOs are really nothing more then linear math manager programs these days and very poor virtual worlds. That is the core problem as I see. If you like to make numbers (faction points, honor points whatever), many MMOs are "fun" however if you are looking for living breathing worlds where you can adventure and have dynamic impact, do what you like (within the bounds of the game) progress how you like, you are more or less hosed.
Since MMO's are progression based, you are going to need to do something to progress. It really comes down to whether or not that is any fun / challenging and enjoyable. Killing 10 rats in 2 dozen different fantasy skinned games...probably not so much and youcan see that with the backlash on so many games that have launched in the last few years. But what is the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over but expecting different results? Isn't that what MMO devs are doing? I mean how many MMO's have we all played that really are basically the same the game but with with a slight twist on play with a new skin?
The problem with focusing on endgame is simply that, the game ends. Making faster, baser, unchallenging, mind numbing grinds to get to the end is just backwards thinking.
Dunno, maybe I'm wrong.
I like grinding. It separates the men from the ADD kids.
Not everyone wants to pay "first life" dollars to play a life simulator that is littered with phallic encounters around every other corner.
Second life is a really hard sell to be called a game.
Grind is a mindset.
Wurmonline puts the average asian grinder to shame when it comes to leveling speed, however I was always doing something so it was actually better than WoW was for me since the levels aren't the goal unless you make them(something world of everclone games force you to make the goal).
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
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