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WAR Collision Detection, is this video accurate?
Polarization
Member Posts: 1,410
http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=MtpSyhDgjYs
What exactly is happening here.
This was one of the major features that might lead me to try this game, but this video appears to show its not exactly working very well.
Anyone have an explanation for this?
Comments
This is intentional.
Collision detection works for a limited time only. If you keep pushing you will eventually go through your opponent (or ally).
I don't really know why this is so, but it's been announced and explained by the devs waay before the release.
I suppose it has some grounds in preventing possible exploits and making players move a bit more and/or employ a bit more advanced tactics like frontage depth etc. You can, for example, keep someone blocked for a long time but you do need to manoeuvre.
/add
.. and as for bugs in the second part of the video... yes, there are some, especially in scenarios (Stonetroll Crossing is especially bad) which is due exclusively to lag. For some reason scenarios have gotten extra laggy recently. No one knows why... or is talking about it.
Yes, that is how it's working. Some people think it's clients not updating positions quickly enough, others think it's intended so you can't block someone for more than a few seconds.
A few of many threads on it:
http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118783
http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114825
http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85054
I was under the impression the “pass threw” function was only going to be for allies to prevent griefing and blocking.
I did not releases it would also apply to enemy’s as well.
If that’s true its rather disappointing, I was hoping to see all the tactics that collision detection would support.
So you cant even hold ground at choke points with tanks because the enemy can pass threw you after a few seconds?
I have that happen to me occasionally, maybe once or twice a 5 hour session. Just depends on just how good your video card is and your RAM. I have heard several of my guildmates talk about it and the lag they get in Capital Cities and I go "What lag?" I got a pretty good puter so it doesn't happen that often.
Most of this comes from low end computers not being able to handle the Good Graphics. Mythic still needs to work on this part.
Thats what I thought also but I am not for sure. Pass through was only for allies.
Of course you can.
But you have to either
a) manoeuvre or
b) have defense a few ranks deep
Just imagine what a tank with 4+ dedicated healers would be? A totally impassable barrier - which is not good for the game. People would find a few easy solutions that would be unbeatable and the game would suffer. This way taking advantage of CD requires some use of skill.
I'm playing a Swordmaster and I can keep an enemy player pretty much rooted through maoeuvre, skills and CD. Using CD in combination with your skills becomes a challenging part of the game rather than just "I'm standing there imba healed. Ha ha ha."
I don't know. The whole collision thing was a big thing they talked about before release. I really hope it's a bug, else what is the point in playing a tank(for pvp that is)? You be better off playing a pure dps class then as the tank dps is shit at the moment, and probably intended aswell. More retardedness from shitty devs. Bah, those two things put a big damper on the enjoyment of the game.
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Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
So let me get this straight.
To perform the role of a tank when attempting to take advantage of CD I would have to constantly “maneuver”, which kind of negates the entire “hold ground” thing in my opinion.
Or I would have to be part of a group of players large enough to form a line of a “few ranks deep”, which sounds like the sort of situation that probably does not happen very often.
“Just imagine what a tank with 4+ dedicated healers would be? A totally impassable barrier”
That is exactly what I was expecting to be able to do if I played a tank with 4+ other players supporting me, but surely it would not be impassable if likewise at the same time 4+ dedicated ranged damage players attacked the healers instead of the tank?
Of course isn’t that more of a case of bad level design if a single player with support can block a chokepoint then a reason to limit enemy CD.
“which is not good for the game.”
Maybe, but having CD that seems almost pointless or at best a minor inconvenience is not good for the game in my opinion either.
Anyway I appreciate what your saying and the reasons for it, I suppose its just another game play versus realism decision or compromise.
But the incentive to play a tank if I did try the game has been severely reduced, I wanted to hold the gates to the keep or the castles during sieges or whatever and actually block the enemy, if people can just run threw you it seems almost pointless to try.
What exactly is the point of playing a tank if people can simply run threw you after a few seconds?
Cant all classes just ignore tanks completely and attack weaker classes behind them, after passing threw them?
Well there's no easy mode or "I win" tactics in this game. CD is working quite well and situationally it can get really important. I don't see any problem with it (except the scenario issues that have been cropping up recently) and I enjoy playing a tank.
It's just one of the things you have to factor in to be successful. You won't be able to hold 20 opponents on your own but you'll buy precious seconds for your healer or flag runner. In a tight situation you can hold off a host if you coordinate with your buddies, but it isn't omnipotent. You won't be a slab of concrete impassable to the multitude. Sorry. Just snare the guy and run in front of him. Hit him on the head a few times and taunt him. He'll take notice and probably retarget. The game requires quite a bit of thinking on one's feet. (forgive my pun)
.. and as for holding gates .. that's perfectly viable. If I got a bunch of BWs on the stairs, those seconds I buy them mean a lot of dead destros.
Collision detction in this game drives me batshit insane. One of the worst features if you ask me. I'm so sick of gettting stuck on everyone and their massive collision detection radius. Just forget the stupid collision detection and allow us to move freely...
I’m not looking for easy mode or I win tactics not sure how you got that impression.
I was thinking that using CD to your advantage would of been more of an advanced tactic that would of only of been really usefull by certain classes in certain situations with the right support, apparently not.
Are you perhaps going to tell me to go back to WoW next?
From the links provided and the video I fail to see how you can say “CD is working quite well”.
Anyway I might still try the game and I’m sure I would adapt as I have in every other game but still CD was toted as a feature, I just did not expect it to be CD for a few seconds only.
Thanks for you answers and everyone else’s.
But one more question
Does CD work in PVE against mobs and NPC’s or do they pass threw you as well?
I know for a fact collision detection works..especially in keep sieges. Even with the push through it only pushes you through 1 or maybe 2 toons if they're standing side by side. If your on a ramp and you have a ramp full of people standing close together you can NOT push through that. We use that tactic often to keep attackers out of our Keep...of course if they use ranged people or knock back abilities they do tend to eventually knock enough out of the way to attempt a surge through.
The push through mechanic is rather realistic if two people are fighting and you decide to run someone through you may not do it on the first try but by the second or third or maybe fourth try you should unless they'rea rock unsteadied them enough to push through You know like Red Rover.
CD is PVP only they've only advertised / hyped it as a PVP mechanic. It would be chaos if CD worked in PvE...not to mention make PvE pretty much UN enjoyable for everyone in a public quest.
Realistically you'd be dead if you run into the same defender 2-4 times to get past them ^^
lol Pheace yea ...true if they're armed.
Weird. It never seems to do that to me. I just get trapped, and die.
Complete, impenetrable, no limit CD would be overpowering IMO. I think they tried to strike a balance between having the mechanic for tactics while not allowing it to be an exploitable one.
I dont know what tanks your playing with, My highest dmg in a scenario was 39k as a rank 16 s/s chosen in stonetroll, tanks are not shit but those who are supposed to heal to keep us going - for the most part are = p
Nah, I'm not saying L2P or any such nonsense. What I'm saying is that from my personal perspective as a guy who uses CD for daily living (heh) it works quite well except in certain specific situations that have more to do with the game being not completely polished technically as of now.
In PvE CD doesn't work but I don't see it as a problem as well. Mobs are generally stupid and you can taunt them. Opposing players are of a different sort and CD works really well on them, especially if they loose their heads.
I'd like to point out another detail that really enhances CD in RvR - friendly collison detection. A lot of time it is the friendlies that are obstructing you more than the opposing players. Though I find it personally irritating it really does reward good, coordinated play and interaction between players. Nothing is more fun than slaughtering a packed zerg trying to get out of each other's CDs. As it should be, imo.
I agree its not only CD I want against enemy’s , I also think CD for allies is almost as important for the crowd or mob dynamics its creates and its associated gameplay.
I can now see its a “good” compromise (between full CD and no CD) for game play and balance reasons , like all “good” compromises neither side is happy.
Does not mean I still don’t want full CD at least for enemy’s but I can see that’s probably not going to happen.
I suppose I should appreciate that at least there is some form of CD, that’s certainly better then no CD at all.
I noticed that recently I'm having a sound problem. My sound will hitch when an effect sound is played, like spell effects and player emotes when they get hit in combat. when the sound hitches the game lags. It seems to be most noticable in scenarios when there's a lot of sounds being processed at once from combat.