Personally I've always found it funny that pepple try to blame the current status on MMO's to graphical emphisis. This makes about as much sense as most of the MMO's devs.
The artist that develop this part of an MMO (or any game) don't have anything to do with the rest of the design. Its a non factor on the overall design of the game. If you want to look at limited customer base due to requirements... then... ok.
Ever notice something about the MMO industry? Such as 90%+ of the games are copying the exact same formula. Toss in the fact that some copy it better than others. Do any of these people even know why they are going with that formula?
EQ1 had more subscribers than UO... back in the days when 450,000 subs was "huge". Well to be technical that's probably more than most MMO's release in North America will ever see.
But no one ever sits down and says ok what were the inherent flaws with that design...
Many things bother me in MMO's today.
No community building. After a while a repetitive game with no real social interaction (or need for it) will just become stale and stagnent.
To many follow the "uber gear" and raid formula. There isn't anything at the core wrong with raiding. However, no one wants to raid for nothing. This entire design is why crafting sucks in almost all MMO's released in recent years. Why would you buy something that isn't as good as you can get raiding... or through whatever system eclipses player made items.
Prices on player made items tend to become high enough that no one wants to buy them anyway. aka the broken player economy. This isn't because of "gold farmers" it is due to horrible designs that actually promote gold farmers.. whether its intended or not.
In fact.. if you are goiing to use this design why add player crafting at all. WAR kind of took this concept but didn't do it quite right (crafting needs some work). By this I mean the only crafts they have use consumable items.. aka potions and talismans. Trying to create demand for player made items by the simple reason they are... consumables. Thus keeping demand on the market through all tiers/levels.
^^ That is what crafting will become if they stay with this design. Yes I focused a lot on crafting for two reasons.
1) They waste resources (in general for all mmo's) on a player action that has no long term sustained use.
2) My first MMO was Ultima Online which had one of the best crafting / player economies.
I guess since this is getting long I'll just add this:
The other problem is the entire "level" system design (being the key difference between UO and EQ). There were no set classes or levels in UO.. you had 700 skill points (when it was released) to spend across all the skills in the game as you wished.
The level design I call the pie system. Simply because as people level up they become trapped at the crust. So the developers add an expansion.. which increases the size of the pie. Over the course of expansions as this continually moves outward.. you end up with this large dead area in the middle.
No one goes there because they are either pushing to be trapped at the outside... or are already trapped (yet again waiting for another expansion). That's when people talk about "empty newb zones".
In a skill based game you didn't have this issue because.. there were no levels. Nothing ever turned grey and even "noob" mobs could kill you in the right circumstances.
People pushed out as their skills increased but there was always worth while things in that old "newb area". Resources to be harvested etc...
Short answer: The problem with most MMO's on the market is the design system they decide to follow.
Altho I also like to look at another standard I've seen now.
Players aka customers say they want A, B and C.
Developer says.. you are just looking through rose colored glasses and gives C, D and E... game fails.. developer wonders why.. must be the consumers fault for not understanding the game.
Couldn't possibly be that the Developers vision didn't match what the consumer wanted... or asked for.
The other problem is the entire "level" system design (being the key difference between UO and EQ). There were no set classes or levels in UO.. you had 700 skill points (when it was released) to spend across all the skills in the game as you wished. The level design I call the pie system. Simply because as people level up they become trapped at the crust. So the developers add an expansion.. which increases the size of the pie. Over the course of expansions as this continually moves outward.. you end up with this large dead area in the middle. No one goes there because they are either pushing to be trapped at the outside... or are already trapped (yet again waiting for another expansion). That's when people talk about "empty newb zones".
I would also prefer a skill based system. However, with the level based MMOs I think a big part of the issue is how linear the zones are now. Nearly every zone has a very defined, narrow level range and it ends up creating a bland, sterile world. Theres no reason to go back to lower level zones and theres little reason for lower level players to venture out to the more dangerous zones.
Personally I've always found it funny that pepple try to blame the current status on MMO's to graphical emphisis. This makes about as much sense as most of the MMO's devs. The artist that develop this part of an MMO (or any game) don't have anything to do with the rest of the design. Its a non factor on the overall design of the game. If you want to look at limited customer base due to requirements... then... ok. Ever notice something about the MMO industry? Such as 90%+ of the games are copying the exact same formula. Toss in the fact that some copy it better than others. Do any of these people even know why they are going with that formula? EQ1 had more subscribers than UO... back in the days when 450,000 subs was "huge". Well to be technical that's probably more than most MMO's release in North America will ever see. But no one ever sits down and says ok what were the inherent flaws with that design... Many things bother me in MMO's today. No community building. After a while a repetitive game with no real social interaction (or need for it) will just become stale and stagnent. To many follow the "uber gear" and raid formula. There isn't anything at the core wrong with raiding. However, no one wants to raid for nothing. This entire design is why crafting sucks in almost all MMO's released in recent years. Why would you buy something that isn't as good as you can get raiding... or through whatever system eclipses player made items. Prices on player made items tend to become high enough that no one wants to buy them anyway. aka the broken player economy. This isn't because of "gold farmers" it is due to horrible designs that actually promote gold farmers.. whether its intended or not. In fact.. if you are goiing to use this design why add player crafting at all. WAR kind of took this concept but didn't do it quite right (crafting needs some work). By this I mean the only crafts they have use consumable items.. aka potions and talismans. Trying to create demand for player made items by the simple reason they are... consumables. Thus keeping demand on the market through all tiers/levels. ^^ That is what crafting will become if they stay with this design. Yes I focused a lot on crafting for two reasons. 1) They waste resources (in general for all mmo's) on a player action that has no long term sustained use. 2) My first MMO was Ultima Online which had one of the best crafting / player economies.
I guess since this is getting long I'll just add this: The other problem is the entire "level" system design (being the key difference between UO and EQ). There were no set classes or levels in UO.. you had 700 skill points (when it was released) to spend across all the skills in the game as you wished. The level design I call the pie system. Simply because as people level up they become trapped at the crust. So the developers add an expansion.. which increases the size of the pie. Over the course of expansions as this continually moves outward.. you end up with this large dead area in the middle. No one goes there because they are either pushing to be trapped at the outside... or are already trapped (yet again waiting for another expansion). That's when people talk about "empty newb zones". In a skill based game you didn't have this issue because.. there were no levels. Nothing ever turned grey and even "noob" mobs could kill you in the right circumstances. People pushed out as their skills increased but there was always worth while things in that old "newb area". Resources to be harvested etc...
Short answer: The problem with most MMO's on the market is the design system they decide to follow.
Altho I also like to look at another standard I've seen now.
Players aka customers say they want A, B and C. Developer says.. you are just looking through rose colored glasses and gives C, D and E... game fails.. developer wonders why.. must be the consumers fault for not understanding the game. Couldn't possibly be that the Developers vision didn't match what the consumer wanted... or asked for.
If the game is designed first and the world is built around the design, the game works. It doesn't really matter if the graphics are the best but hey if the game has that special magic to keep a player interested and great graphics, I certainly don't think anyone would complain.
A game designed around an engine with the graphics and lack of a good rule set is just not going to make the game good.
/agree
Most games are a copy of the same tried and true formula. hell, there are books and books on the subject. Those game designs that go against that formula are a bigger risk and in todays world not many investors will risk their money. those that have time to develop those new formulas and design those games are the ones that do not have to concern themselves with the almighty dollar simply because they don't have anything to loose.
Many players want many different things and some games deliver. DAoC was one game that kept me in for the longest simply because it had a good mix. I have many good memories of the fun stuff in that game. Only reason I stopped playing was I ran the course. Six years of one game off and on is a pretty good if you ask me. EQ2 Was another off and on that lasted from release to just this last March.
Even those games lack something and I guess that is why some of us start pushing a new formula out with a 'gasp' pencil and calculator.
You hit the nail right on the head. It's not the games or the developers. It's the community.
If the game isn't what someone THINKS it should be, or if it's not exactly what they wanted or expected... it becomes a flamefest.
Then there's the famous people who love their game so much, they'll spend as much time as possible trying to flame the newest game out in the hopes that the community doesn't go flying to the new one and leave the other game in the dust.
You'd have to be crazy to be working in the MMO industry today. It's one of the most self-centered and rudest communities out there.
I agree with both comments, 100%. This is a huge downfall for the gaming world today. Mmorpg's use to be so fun and the community use to be filled with gamers who loved the game for what it was. Ever since Wow came out the gaming community has expanded from mature to immature. We've got new gamers on here who use to just play console games that now play mmorpg's thanks to World Of Warcraft. Wow being on southpark, wow having actual commericals, etc.... there are alot of new gamers who've never ever touched any games on the PC until Wow came along. Atleast that's my opinion. Gaming communities are ruined thanks to Wow and everyone compares games now to Wow. Why? It's not necessarily that wow was the 1st greatest game of mmorpg history, hell no. It's the fact that it had the most population so quickly. Why? The hype. Warhammer had a ton of hype, if not more then Wow. It has years to grow. But to me, it's been there done that kind of a game and I'm not resubscribing.
I'm sick of the immature communities. That's why I have respect for games such as Second Life, Neocron, Ryzom, and others that have small communities, have had problems in the past, or are like real life where the community is mature. Where they actually want to help new players to the game. Oh I miss the old days of gaming where players were actually friendly. Nowadays on communties such as wow everyone's just dicks to everyone else. Wow has by far the worst community I've ever seen. Full of Immature punks that walk around like they own the game because they have the best gear, not willing to help anyone. eh....bla bla bla right?
What's wrong with MMOs today? 1. WoW -- I've spent my share of time playing WoW and enjoyed it, but it's killing the industry. Most companies capable of producing a big-budget MMO look at WoW's subscription numbers and tell their developers "do that!". It is the root of many of the following problems. 2. Too easy -- MMOs are sliding towards risk-free cakewalks, where there is little to no penalty for doing things the wrong way. Death is a temporary debuff and minor inconvenience. Questing is simplified so greatly that an NPC explains to you in painfully clear detail what to do, shows you exactly on your map where to go, you are guided by a floating arrow to get there, and tooltips show you precisely what to kill or gather. Despie this, most quests are of the "bring me X of item Y"...incredible creativity there! Combat no longer requires skill. Gear is so freakishly easy to get that there is little reward in excelling at anything. Leveling has been abandoned in favor of super-fast progressions, because nobody has the patience to build a character and advance themselves. Now, its "rush to endgame in a week or two, then spend the rest of your life in endless, generic battlegrounds bashing eachother in the head". In short, effort, thought, danger and excitement have been removed to pander to the lowest common denominator. 3. The people -- Sorry, but anybody who has been playing for a while knows that it didn't used to be like this. There were always people who bitched & whined, but today developers appear to be slaves to them. I know absolutely that this statement is elitist, but...there used to be a better caliber of player. The floodgates have now opened to anybody that can screech and pound their way through Guitar Hero. And that's where the money is at, the masses. As if that weren't bad enough to start with, people cry a river if they aren't satisfied immediately--"I WANT IT ALL I WANT IT NOW GIVE IT TO ME ITS NOT FAIR IF I CANT HAVE IT!" 4. The companies -- Steaming pile of crap releases. WAR is mediocre, but it broke the spell of abysmal major title releases of the past few years. I can count the number of professional, polished (major) MMOs on one hand. Yep, WoW is one of them, because Blizzard has a reuptation for doing things right, and it shows. Vanguard was a disaster, and is just now getting fixed into proper shape, but it may never recover. Funcom had a golden opportunity and squandered it by lying to then taking a dump on their customers--AoC will probably never recover. AoC alone frothed up bored-with-WoW players so much that many just lost faith in MMOs alltogether when the dust settled. 5. The market -- The market is a sewer. F2P cash-shop asia-grinders multiply like rabbits. Most major title that haven't been disasters have fallen into small niches that can only get smaller (LOTRO, DDO, PotBS), or been so utterly mediocre that they are dead or nearly dead already (Auto Assault, TR, Matrix Online)...the few original MMOs that really do shine seem to be cursed, coming from companies that can't get themselves together (Ryzom, old mangement). 6. The sites -- including this one. See #3...but MMO site (official or 3rd party) forum trolls should just be shot. Seriously. 7. Nothing REALLY new and exciting -- I'm still waiting for a "next-gen" MMO. Whatever that is, we haven't seen it yet, and it needs to appear soon.
I'll touch each of these points.. as this appears to be the best post so far..
1. I agree. WoW catered to the majority of players by creating a game that was easy to get into and rewarded you for playing (ie Grinding) by giving you little prizes to make grinding easier. Many games followed this forumula due to the success that is WoW.
2. I sort of disagree. They didn't back slide.. they evolved into less. PvP death is AoC was a fast way to travel.. the penalties in WAR are laughable. And in WoW? a free walk back to your body.. ?? .. .. Compared to back in the day .. UO.. entire corpse looted (or all equpiemtn dropped) EQ.. Loss of all equipement, .. exp penalty.. However.. all quests have become the same (don't tell me PQ are revolutionary..).. Kill X or collect Y.. and bring them to Z.. I like AC because you could go kill something.. and it would drop something else.. and this was part of a quest.. or s tep.. or something alone those lines. And in VG one of the best quests where you have to say a word.. out loud.. like in the chat.. simply amazing..
3. I very much agree with this statement. And, this might sound bad, but I think it's the generation of the players. A lot of the recent players came from WoW which was a ME game. It's a fun game.. but sort of sullied the MMORPG player base. And as far as the whining the bitching goes.. I have to side with the developers... the genre IS NOT what it was when everquest or asheron's call was. Back them.. you played a game made by the developers.. if you didnt' like it.. Too bad, there wasn't much else to play.. but.. now a days.. there are 15000 other games to play.. If you don't like that one.. then find antoher one.. And the game companies are AGAINST this because.. well.. the business is about money..
4. I agree here as well.. However, this mostly goes back to the competiion now in the field.. Games get rushed out too early to appease the masses (Like Vanguard!!) and no longer have time to develop.. or things get prioritzied incorrectly. AoC was rushed (sort of) and they tried to capitalize on the bored WoW players (what else was getting subs in the market?).. and they damaged the MMORPG base (mostly the actual players who looked at MMORPG's as a whole.. an not as WoW being created by god)
5. The market IS crap. Everyone is trying to make money based on WoW numbers.. instead of making a game that people want to play.. because it's fun! Now, everyone plays for the "ding" to get the next skill.. to help them farm better.. to get the next ding.. There is no longer an adventure, games are becoming a chore. That's why I think VG would be great.. They just needed to have finished it (I think it only released with 1/3rd the planned continent/content). it was beyond help.. and it falls by the wayside.
6. This site (aside from the VNboards DT board) are a cesspool of Trolls and Fanbois.
7. I will be playing WAR until a game comes out that is HUGE and I can feel like I am actually the story, and not a pawn going through it. Darkfall, if it ever comes out (crosses fingers), might fill this gap.. but I'm afaid of all of the elists PvP jerks out there.
Oh.. and to those complaining about PvP in games.. You can blame WoW for that.. before, PvP was a niche market (excluding asian MMORPG's) but WoW's arena.. sort of made it mainstream. I, myself, like PvP.. but I think it should be a choice.. and if you make a great game, you should be able to explore it without getting killed... But, likewise.. it's a little more fun to get chased across the country side.
I believed that there are a lot of factors that can affect an online game downfall. 1. The management handling the game, they might miscalculate some stuffs that had lead to its downfall, if the only thing they think of is how to gain money and they had forgoten to improve the game better can cause for players to quit the game. 2. The game itself, if there had been a minimum numbers of updates done, I'm quite sure that you'll be bored to death playing and playing a game that you had been playing for almost 3 months or so and still no updates. 3. The community players itself, some players had gone way out of hand that some players quit rather than to play with them. But still there may have been ways to prevent this in happening, so before something go gone bad players and management must work together to keep the game alive and kicking!
There are many things wrong with MMOs today, but I will not say that WoW is at fault for this. When you say this, you're playing into nastolgia, and you forget that times change.
There have always been immature players in video games. No matter if it was Warcraft, or UO.
But anyway, my main problem with MMO's today is that they all feel half assed.
I know most people will say "hey, they will fix it in a couple of months" but since player base for MMO's have grown, and many of us have become so good at progressing a character quick in these types of game, they really need to sit down and say "we need to make a full and complete game".
I also have a problem with instancing, and the worlds they are making for these games. I older MMOs have vast worlds, and even with zoning, they still give you a feel that you are in a large world that you can explore and find new things, and go to new places.
The last 5 damn mmo's I've bought have been instanced, and only have had parts of the world. WAR's instancing is tolerable, but the other four (Tabula Rasa, AoC, Hellgate: London (I should have bought Crysis that day),City of Villains), have been instanced to hell, and only had a small portion to roam in.
I really want a world with some land marks, something that makes it feel like a world.
Another thing is that they are trying harder and harder to make these games for idiots. WoW got away with it because it was new and most of the MMOs at that time were complicated as hell and not easy to get into.
But today, it seems like its getting worse, and the whole industry is suffering for it. No company is willing to take a chance and make a good game that does challenge the player. Not just "lol cast this to kill everything".
It shouldn't be TOO HARD to make a good game, that's complex, but easy to get into. Shit, Bethesta pulled it off with Oblivion, why can't companies that manufactor mmos learn from this example?
Also, a lot of games are ALL ABOUT combat. Just kill shit. Every class is designed to kill shit in one way.
Why not try to craft an interesting way to maybe progress through an MMO without, you know?...killing shit?
Tough, I know. But if pulled off right, you might just have something there.
One of my bigger isssues is that everyone only cares about ENDGAME.
The whole fucking MMO community has an Endgame obsession. So much so, that it has prevented anyone from enjoying the actual game. This might come off as a gripe about the community, and it is in a way, but it is also a gripe at developers for not making progression good enough to diverting from "must get to lvl 70".
Sure, I want to get 70 on my warlock, but I want to have some FUN when I am lvling.
I don't think having a "sandbox game" or a classless/leveless system will ever make a game.
What makes it fun, is how they present it. Meaning how it is designed.
What is wrong with MMORPGs today? Nothing. People have been making threads like this on this website since at least 2003. I used to be one of them. Years ago I made my peace and haven't played any MMORPG since. I am still waiting for a great game but until then I won't play. I don't expect to play any time soon.
Same here. But, you have to admit, bitching about MMOs is still pretty entertaining.
What's wrong ? It's easy. They all want to be WOW clones. Devs saw the huge success of WOW and want to emulate that in their game. SO you endup with TONS of mmo's based of WOW. The only problem, is that Blizzard is having the money and peoples to constantly fix and add stuff to the game, while small developpers dont. So you endup with a bunch of crappy, buggy WOW wannabe clones.
Another problem is the lack of imagination. Nobody wants to innovate and try something new. The only MMO's i've played for a long period of time are those that we're innovative for their time.
1999-2002 : Asheron's Call : Best and only TRUE sandbox mmo.
2002-2004 : Anarchy Online : Best, Deepest and only true succesful Sci-Fi MMO.
What's wrong ? It's easy. They all want to be WOW clones. Devs saw the huge success of WOW and want to emulate that in their game. SO you endup with TONS of mmo's based of WOW. The only problem, is that Blizzard is having the money and peoples to constantly fix and add stuff to the game, while small developpers dont. So you endup with a bunch of crappy, buggy WOW wannabe clones. Another problem is the lack of imagination. Nobody wants to innovate and try something new. The only MMO's i've played for a long period of time are those that we're innovative for their time. 1999-2002 : Asheron's Call : Best and only TRUE sandbox mmo. 2002-2004 : Anarchy Online : Best, Deepest and only true succesful Sci-Fi MMO. 2004-2008 : WOW, needs no explanation...
I dont know I would try my best to fit UO, EQ and Eve in there somewhere.
Imo the two best games on the market are WoW and Eve other than that all the other games are mehhh
Comments
Personally I've always found it funny that pepple try to blame the current status on MMO's to graphical emphisis. This makes about as much sense as most of the MMO's devs.
The artist that develop this part of an MMO (or any game) don't have anything to do with the rest of the design. Its a non factor on the overall design of the game. If you want to look at limited customer base due to requirements... then... ok.
Ever notice something about the MMO industry? Such as 90%+ of the games are copying the exact same formula. Toss in the fact that some copy it better than others. Do any of these people even know why they are going with that formula?
EQ1 had more subscribers than UO... back in the days when 450,000 subs was "huge". Well to be technical that's probably more than most MMO's release in North America will ever see.
But no one ever sits down and says ok what were the inherent flaws with that design...
Many things bother me in MMO's today.
No community building. After a while a repetitive game with no real social interaction (or need for it) will just become stale and stagnent.
To many follow the "uber gear" and raid formula. There isn't anything at the core wrong with raiding. However, no one wants to raid for nothing. This entire design is why crafting sucks in almost all MMO's released in recent years. Why would you buy something that isn't as good as you can get raiding... or through whatever system eclipses player made items.
Prices on player made items tend to become high enough that no one wants to buy them anyway. aka the broken player economy. This isn't because of "gold farmers" it is due to horrible designs that actually promote gold farmers.. whether its intended or not.
In fact.. if you are goiing to use this design why add player crafting at all. WAR kind of took this concept but didn't do it quite right (crafting needs some work). By this I mean the only crafts they have use consumable items.. aka potions and talismans. Trying to create demand for player made items by the simple reason they are... consumables. Thus keeping demand on the market through all tiers/levels.
^^ That is what crafting will become if they stay with this design. Yes I focused a lot on crafting for two reasons.
1) They waste resources (in general for all mmo's) on a player action that has no long term sustained use.
2) My first MMO was Ultima Online which had one of the best crafting / player economies.
I guess since this is getting long I'll just add this:
The other problem is the entire "level" system design (being the key difference between UO and EQ). There were no set classes or levels in UO.. you had 700 skill points (when it was released) to spend across all the skills in the game as you wished.
The level design I call the pie system. Simply because as people level up they become trapped at the crust. So the developers add an expansion.. which increases the size of the pie. Over the course of expansions as this continually moves outward.. you end up with this large dead area in the middle.
No one goes there because they are either pushing to be trapped at the outside... or are already trapped (yet again waiting for another expansion). That's when people talk about "empty newb zones".
In a skill based game you didn't have this issue because.. there were no levels. Nothing ever turned grey and even "noob" mobs could kill you in the right circumstances.
People pushed out as their skills increased but there was always worth while things in that old "newb area". Resources to be harvested etc...
Short answer: The problem with most MMO's on the market is the design system they decide to follow.
Altho I also like to look at another standard I've seen now.
Players aka customers say they want A, B and C.
Developer says.. you are just looking through rose colored glasses and gives C, D and E... game fails.. developer wonders why.. must be the consumers fault for not understanding the game.
Couldn't possibly be that the Developers vision didn't match what the consumer wanted... or asked for.
I would also prefer a skill based system. However, with the level based MMOs I think a big part of the issue is how linear the zones are now. Nearly every zone has a very defined, narrow level range and it ends up creating a bland, sterile world. Theres no reason to go back to lower level zones and theres little reason for lower level players to venture out to the more dangerous zones.
If the game is designed first and the world is built around the design, the game works. It doesn't really matter if the graphics are the best but hey if the game has that special magic to keep a player interested and great graphics, I certainly don't think anyone would complain.
A game designed around an engine with the graphics and lack of a good rule set is just not going to make the game good.
/agree
Most games are a copy of the same tried and true formula. hell, there are books and books on the subject. Those game designs that go against that formula are a bigger risk and in todays world not many investors will risk their money. those that have time to develop those new formulas and design those games are the ones that do not have to concern themselves with the almighty dollar simply because they don't have anything to loose.
Many players want many different things and some games deliver. DAoC was one game that kept me in for the longest simply because it had a good mix. I have many good memories of the fun stuff in that game. Only reason I stopped playing was I ran the course. Six years of one game off and on is a pretty good if you ask me. EQ2 Was another off and on that lasted from release to just this last March.
Even those games lack something and I guess that is why some of us start pushing a new formula out with a 'gasp' pencil and calculator.
BINGO!
You hit the nail right on the head. It's not the games or the developers. It's the community.
If the game isn't what someone THINKS it should be, or if it's not exactly what they wanted or expected... it becomes a flamefest.
Then there's the famous people who love their game so much, they'll spend as much time as possible trying to flame the newest game out in the hopes that the community doesn't go flying to the new one and leave the other game in the dust.
You'd have to be crazy to be working in the MMO industry today. It's one of the most self-centered and rudest communities out there.
I agree with both comments, 100%. This is a huge downfall for the gaming world today. Mmorpg's use to be so fun and the community use to be filled with gamers who loved the game for what it was. Ever since Wow came out the gaming community has expanded from mature to immature. We've got new gamers on here who use to just play console games that now play mmorpg's thanks to World Of Warcraft. Wow being on southpark, wow having actual commericals, etc.... there are alot of new gamers who've never ever touched any games on the PC until Wow came along. Atleast that's my opinion. Gaming communities are ruined thanks to Wow and everyone compares games now to Wow. Why? It's not necessarily that wow was the 1st greatest game of mmorpg history, hell no. It's the fact that it had the most population so quickly. Why? The hype. Warhammer had a ton of hype, if not more then Wow. It has years to grow. But to me, it's been there done that kind of a game and I'm not resubscribing.
I'm sick of the immature communities. That's why I have respect for games such as Second Life, Neocron, Ryzom, and others that have small communities, have had problems in the past, or are like real life where the community is mature. Where they actually want to help new players to the game. Oh I miss the old days of gaming where players were actually friendly. Nowadays on communties such as wow everyone's just dicks to everyone else. Wow has by far the worst community I've ever seen. Full of Immature punks that walk around like they own the game because they have the best gear, not willing to help anyone. eh....bla bla bla right?
I'll touch each of these points.. as this appears to be the best post so far..
1. I agree. WoW catered to the majority of players by creating a game that was easy to get into and rewarded you for playing (ie Grinding) by giving you little prizes to make grinding easier. Many games followed this forumula due to the success that is WoW.
2. I sort of disagree. They didn't back slide.. they evolved into less. PvP death is AoC was a fast way to travel.. the penalties in WAR are laughable. And in WoW? a free walk back to your body.. ?? .. .. Compared to back in the day .. UO.. entire corpse looted (or all equpiemtn dropped) EQ.. Loss of all equipement, .. exp penalty.. However.. all quests have become the same (don't tell me PQ are revolutionary..).. Kill X or collect Y.. and bring them to Z.. I like AC because you could go kill something.. and it would drop something else.. and this was part of a quest.. or s tep.. or something alone those lines. And in VG one of the best quests where you have to say a word.. out loud.. like in the chat.. simply amazing..
3. I very much agree with this statement. And, this might sound bad, but I think it's the generation of the players. A lot of the recent players came from WoW which was a ME game. It's a fun game.. but sort of sullied the MMORPG player base. And as far as the whining the bitching goes.. I have to side with the developers... the genre IS NOT what it was when everquest or asheron's call was. Back them.. you played a game made by the developers.. if you didnt' like it.. Too bad, there wasn't much else to play.. but.. now a days.. there are 15000 other games to play.. If you don't like that one.. then find antoher one.. And the game companies are AGAINST this because.. well.. the business is about money..
4. I agree here as well.. However, this mostly goes back to the competiion now in the field.. Games get rushed out too early to appease the masses (Like Vanguard!!) and no longer have time to develop.. or things get prioritzied incorrectly. AoC was rushed (sort of) and they tried to capitalize on the bored WoW players (what else was getting subs in the market?).. and they damaged the MMORPG base (mostly the actual players who looked at MMORPG's as a whole.. an not as WoW being created by god)
5. The market IS crap. Everyone is trying to make money based on WoW numbers.. instead of making a game that people want to play.. because it's fun! Now, everyone plays for the "ding" to get the next skill.. to help them farm better.. to get the next ding.. There is no longer an adventure, games are becoming a chore. That's why I think VG would be great.. They just needed to have finished it (I think it only released with 1/3rd the planned continent/content). it was beyond help.. and it falls by the wayside.
6. This site (aside from the VNboards DT board) are a cesspool of Trolls and Fanbois.
7. I will be playing WAR until a game comes out that is HUGE and I can feel like I am actually the story, and not a pawn going through it. Darkfall, if it ever comes out (crosses fingers), might fill this gap.. but I'm afaid of all of the elists PvP jerks out there.
Oh.. and to those complaining about PvP in games.. You can blame WoW for that.. before, PvP was a niche market (excluding asian MMORPG's) but WoW's arena.. sort of made it mainstream. I, myself, like PvP.. but I think it should be a choice.. and if you make a great game, you should be able to explore it without getting killed... But, likewise.. it's a little more fun to get chased across the country side.
Currently playing Real Life..
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Yeah it has to be the community...
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I believed that there are a lot of factors that can affect an online game downfall. 1. The management handling the game, they might miscalculate some stuffs that had lead to its downfall, if the only thing they think of is how to gain money and they had forgoten to improve the game better can cause for players to quit the game. 2. The game itself, if there had been a minimum numbers of updates done, I'm quite sure that you'll be bored to death playing and playing a game that you had been playing for almost 3 months or so and still no updates. 3. The community players itself, some players had gone way out of hand that some players quit rather than to play with them. But still there may have been ways to prevent this in happening, so before something go gone bad players and management must work together to keep the game alive and kicking!
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There are many things wrong with MMOs today, but I will not say that WoW is at fault for this. When you say this, you're playing into nastolgia, and you forget that times change.
There have always been immature players in video games. No matter if it was Warcraft, or UO.
But anyway, my main problem with MMO's today is that they all feel half assed.
I know most people will say "hey, they will fix it in a couple of months" but since player base for MMO's have grown, and many of us have become so good at progressing a character quick in these types of game, they really need to sit down and say "we need to make a full and complete game".
I also have a problem with instancing, and the worlds they are making for these games. I older MMOs have vast worlds, and even with zoning, they still give you a feel that you are in a large world that you can explore and find new things, and go to new places.
The last 5 damn mmo's I've bought have been instanced, and only have had parts of the world. WAR's instancing is tolerable, but the other four (Tabula Rasa, AoC, Hellgate: London (I should have bought Crysis that day),City of Villains), have been instanced to hell, and only had a small portion to roam in.
I really want a world with some land marks, something that makes it feel like a world.
Another thing is that they are trying harder and harder to make these games for idiots. WoW got away with it because it was new and most of the MMOs at that time were complicated as hell and not easy to get into.
But today, it seems like its getting worse, and the whole industry is suffering for it. No company is willing to take a chance and make a good game that does challenge the player. Not just "lol cast this to kill everything".
It shouldn't be TOO HARD to make a good game, that's complex, but easy to get into. Shit, Bethesta pulled it off with Oblivion, why can't companies that manufactor mmos learn from this example?
Also, a lot of games are ALL ABOUT combat. Just kill shit. Every class is designed to kill shit in one way.
Why not try to craft an interesting way to maybe progress through an MMO without, you know?...killing shit?
Tough, I know. But if pulled off right, you might just have something there.
One of my bigger isssues is that everyone only cares about ENDGAME.
The whole fucking MMO community has an Endgame obsession. So much so, that it has prevented anyone from enjoying the actual game. This might come off as a gripe about the community, and it is in a way, but it is also a gripe at developers for not making progression good enough to diverting from "must get to lvl 70".
Sure, I want to get 70 on my warlock, but I want to have some FUN when I am lvling.
I don't think having a "sandbox game" or a classless/leveless system will ever make a game.
What makes it fun, is how they present it. Meaning how it is designed.
If you understand what I mean.
Groovy.
What is wrong with MMORPGs today? Nothing. People have been making threads like this on this website since at least 2003. I used to be one of them.
Years ago I made my peace and haven't played any MMORPG since. I am still waiting for a great game but until then I won't play.
I don't expect to play any time soon.
Same here. But, you have to admit, bitching about MMOs is still pretty entertaining.
What's wrong ? It's easy. They all want to be WOW clones. Devs saw the huge success of WOW and want to emulate that in their game. SO you endup with TONS of mmo's based of WOW. The only problem, is that Blizzard is having the money and peoples to constantly fix and add stuff to the game, while small developpers dont. So you endup with a bunch of crappy, buggy WOW wannabe clones.
Another problem is the lack of imagination. Nobody wants to innovate and try something new. The only MMO's i've played for a long period of time are those that we're innovative for their time.
1999-2002 : Asheron's Call : Best and only TRUE sandbox mmo.
2002-2004 : Anarchy Online : Best, Deepest and only true succesful Sci-Fi MMO.
2004-2008 : WOW, needs no explanation...
I dont know I would try my best to fit UO, EQ and Eve in there somewhere.
Imo the two best games on the market are WoW and Eve other than that all the other games are mehhh
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing