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Why are the current crop of mmo's so bad?
charlesfern
Member Posts: 6
Anybody knows/cares why mmo's launched by big names with big budgets lack ideas/innovation?
Why is it always pvp or pve, couldnt you have a mix of the two? where players control pve mobs?
Players get captured during raids r forced to defend against the next timed raid?? pvep?
why have pve bosses, take the best geard players on the realm and make them bosses instead along with guildies...timed raids....they would love it..so would the noobs trying to take them down....
skill dependant..not gear.....Recycle gear...you die..you lose it.....
With the kind of hardware available today why churn out wow clones?
Why aim for 10 million? when 0.5 million paying 15 bucks a month can give you a very good ROI, no matter how big the investment. (approx 100 mil/yr)
When your mmo has more bugs than windows it aint cool.
Comments
Too much money invested = fear = the known formula.
because they are all just poorly designed cash-grabs meant to attract the largest audience possible.
They don't give a damn about the quality of the game anymore, it's all about doing what WoW did, but doing it "better".
Fuck WoW, and fuck WoW clones.
I miss the old days of MMOs, and from the posts that I see daily on this site and others, I'm not alone.
Why can't we have a game with great PVE and Great PVP? One where the skills for each are entirely seperate, so the nerf-cycle never happens?
How about a game that's a sand-box....but still has great quests? Why is it that they have to be exclusive of one another?
How about someone with some balls step up and make a huge virtual world, with no GODDAMN ELVES OR ORCS, toss in quest chains that start in various locations around the game world, include player housing, an SWG-style crafting system, social classes, skill-based, NON-cartoony with a division between PVP and PVE skill sets?
And if someone says "Darkfall" Imma kick 'em in the nuts.
(edited for shitty spelling)
I remember back in 1999, folks kept asking me if I was stockpiling food. I always answered, "No, I'm stockpiling ammo and making a list of people who are stockpiling food"
The economy !
Not enough funding and tight deadlines. Everything is rushed, ea started this trend
Or too much time spent listening to the vocal minority of whom believe they know what they want.
Developers need to make their own game not the people's game. Its ok to bend some ideas to what the crowd wants but that is why we have a bunch of games that are all basically the same thing.
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You wouldn't understand
What game(s) of the great old days are you talking about? Can't you go back to play those games? Are you talking about the good old days of UO before the "evil" changes?
Why are the current crop of mmo's so bad?
Because developers haven't unlocked the skill that makes them NOT develop a WoW clone yet.
Darkfall
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
It is not that they are so bad it is that they are over hyped and they have to all be compared to WOW. Wich is a polished master piece. A game like WAR or Conan could have had moderate success and been seen as successful I think if they didnt over hype their product and then drastically under deliever. The worst offender I think is WAR. WAR is a complete crap game it is fun for the 1st few levels and then for maybe a couple days but at the higher levels it is horrible. WAR should be a free to play game or maybe a 4.99 per month game but anyone who thinks they get as much from WARHAMMER as you do from WOW is just a sucker in my opinion I dont care what your play style WOW is a MUCH better deal then WAR.
What game(s) of the great old days are you talking about? Can't you go back to play those games? Are you talking about the good old days of UO before the "evil" changes?
No, sadly the old games are either unpopulated, or have changed so much that they have lost their original flavor.
Games like AO, Pre-CU SWG, DAOC, EQ1, UO, Neocron, etc.
Back when developers tried new things, and tried to make a game that was good on it's own...not just a clone of something else.
I remember back in 1999, folks kept asking me if I was stockpiling food. I always answered, "No, I'm stockpiling ammo and making a list of people who are stockpiling food"
Don't forget to pull your head out of Blizzard's ass to take a breath once in a while.
I remember back in 1999, folks kept asking me if I was stockpiling food. I always answered, "No, I'm stockpiling ammo and making a list of people who are stockpiling food"
Here's a few questions for you guys.
Are MMOs really that bad or do we expect way too much out of a MMO dev team in this day and age?
Are gamers as a whole in thier quest for the perfect MMO actually the reason the mmo genre is failing?
Will the MMO genre need to refocus or split into multiple sub-genres, with so many gamers wanting so many different types of MMOs is it even possible to satisfy all of them?
Will we ever finally accept that MMOs need to progress and evolve overtime to be that MMO we always wanted?
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
Don't forget to pull your head out of Blizzard's ass to take a breath once in a while.
Actually I think blizzard is a bunch of arogant jerks and I stand by my statement about WAR so I hope your envy of blizzard doesnt make you too green.
How about just a game that's
A: not trying to be the next WoW
B: FINISHED when it's released. Of course there will be patches and expansions, but I mean everything works, and is actually there.
C: Is more than just a linear race to max level to participate in e-sport style PVP arenas.
The MMO genre is failing because since WoW we just keep getting the same damn game over and over again.
I remember back in 1999, folks kept asking me if I was stockpiling food. I always answered, "No, I'm stockpiling ammo and making a list of people who are stockpiling food"
The mmo genre is not failing 11-13-08 I think you will see one of the most successfull game expansions in history.
I tried going back to WoW. It is difficult, even more so after playing Warhammer. So far Warhammer is not as amazing as I thought it would be but it is very fun and enjoyable, I have an amazing guild, and I tingle at what the game may be like a year or so down the road. It's biggest strength likely is potential. And it at least does not butcher it's own story line, cough cough.
Anyways, I can not go back to WoW now. It is starting to feel out dated, and to a degree it is. I had hopes for wrath of the lich king but it seems like extra frosting on an already too sweet cake. I have a craving for some real food, and we will see what that turns out to be. Spell Born comes out in November as well if I remember, I will try that out and Aion as well whenever it releases. If one of the games happens to be better than Warhammer to me, I'll end up playing it.
Washed down, easy to play, average fun factor MMO with good advertising = General popularity, General popularity = Mainstream, Mainstream = Washed down, quick, fast, cheap, money-efficient products, That = Current MMOs
In other words, WoW did nothing but hurt the MMO genre. I hate it when people argue "but they brought so many people into the MMO genre! It was dying and WoW saved it!" The MMO genre was doing fine without WoW, and MANY PEOPLE = MAINSTREAMED MMO GENRE and MAINSTREAM = WASHED DOWN SHIT. It's not that hard to understand.
THAT is why current MMOs blow.
/endthread
ding ding!
This is what I'm waiting to see. The day when people realize that you can't make an MMO that satisfies everyone. Much better to have several sub-genres that actually excel in specific areas and attract specific play styles.
What game(s) of the great old days are you talking about? Can't you go back to play those games? Are you talking about the good old days of UO before the "evil" changes?
No, sadly the old games are either unpopulated, or have changed so much that they have lost their original flavor.
Games like AO, Pre-CU SWG, DAOC, EQ1, UO, Neocron, etc.
Back when developers tried new things, and tried to make a game that was good on it's own...not just a clone of something else.
Sounds to me like in the survival of the fittest, the old games have lost out. Is it possible you are wearing rose colored glasses when thinking of the good old days? I think some people tend to forget the negatives about the good old days and romanticize other aspects of their experience.
We put up with clunking games in the past. Today, people have a lot less patience and don't seem to be able to put up with it. That certainly includes many of the old time gamers. They should be the ones who can be more flexible in their approach to games, but often they are less forgiving.
What game(s) of the great old days are you talking about? Can't you go back to play those games? Are you talking about the good old days of UO before the "evil" changes?
No, sadly the old games are either unpopulated, or have changed so much that they have lost their original flavor.
Games like AO, Pre-CU SWG, DAOC, EQ1, UO, Neocron, etc.
Back when developers tried new things, and tried to make a game that was good on it's own...not just a clone of something else.
Sounds to me like in the survival of the fittest, the old games have lost out. Is it possible you are wearing rose colored glasses when thinking of the good old days? I think some people tend to forget the negatives about the good old days and romanticize other aspects of their experience.
We put up with clunking games in the past. Today, people have a lot less patience and don't seem to be able to put up with it. That certainly includes many of the old time gamers. They should be the ones who can be more flexible in their approach to games, but often they are less forgiving.
lol...so in their place we have half-finished games with 1/10th of the content and the same subscription fee?
Does that really sound like "progress" to you?
I remember back in 1999, folks kept asking me if I was stockpiling food. I always answered, "No, I'm stockpiling ammo and making a list of people who are stockpiling food"
That's exactly why I've dropped most MMOs and turned my attention back to shooters and such.
One statement I stand by is that I would return to DAoC in a heartbeat if they were able to make the feel and physics of the game modern, in other words pick up the pace a little in combat, make jumping less wimpy, and make general movement just faster. Animations might need improvement, but that's not much of an issue.
Hell, what I really want to see is a new Planetside with AI and better physics alongside a 3rd person skill based rpg MMO so I can have my fun massive shooter and slightly more lighthearted romp about game.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
The answer to the question is simple. Blizzard has a monopoly. This leaves the rest of the developers running around and creating games similar to WoW so they can feed off the scraps that blizzard lets fall away. Even more developers have there heads so far up blizzard's arse that they cannot create thier own game. They think the only good way is the WoW way and ruin inovation for profit.
It will take a revolution led by a complany not already in the MMO industry to make things competitive again.
Playing: Tera, BF3, ME3
Waiting on: Guild Wars 2
To me it seems that MMO's quit trying to develop what they had that worked and thought they had to try new things to retain or gain players. Instead of fixing bugs, listening to the community and fixing or adding what the player base desired, they decided to go with massive changes to update games that really were not outdated.
WoW's amazing success stemmed from their bug fixes, the endless farming that kept you always trying to upgrade gear, harvesting materials, and well timed expansions to retain their players. I no longer play WoW and will not go back with the new expansion, but have to give them credit for maintaining not only their game, but their playerbase.
Personally I feel that if an MMO went back to the basics and chose the aspects that made some of the earlier MMO's successful and integrated them with a updated graphics engine, added in quest lines or storylines for optional content, made the game skill based instead of fotm classes with specific builds, and listened to the player base, that MMO might stand a very good chance of drawing off players from WoW. Sorry for the run on sentence there. Some people play WoW and the others just because their initial games were changed to the point they could no longer tolerate them and moved over to WoW and the like. Bringing out games that offered some of what once was might draw players away from the MMO Clone Wars.
Or too much time spent listening to the vocal minority of whom believe they know what they want.
Developers need to make their own game not the people's game. Its ok to bend some ideas to what the crowd wants but that is why we have a bunch of games that are all basically the same thing.
They know where the money is, in a WOW style game. Problem, I think, it's they try to mimic WOW's gameplay but forget to copy their smooth animations, control and response.
But maybe the money is in a Darkfall type of game now. Who knows.
Dunno if they are bad but most are to similar to eachother.
Guess the suits that makes the decisions see Wows number and want a piece of that cake.
But there is new thinking game coming, Spellborn isnt far away for one...
How about just a game that's
A: not trying to be the next WoW
B: FINISHED when it's released. Of course there will be patches and expansions, but I mean everything works, and is actually there.
C: Is more than just a linear race to max level to participate in e-sport style PVP arenas.
The MMO genre is failing because since WoW we just keep getting the same damn game over and over again.
In order to fix all of the small bugs they need thousands upon thousands of people to play the game so that they can find all of the errors. Also just the complexity of games released now, by the time they released it as a complete game, there would already be a non-complete game released that people are playing the game. Now I'm not saying all games that are released non-complete are good (Age of Conan could have been amazing except that they are still fixing major bugs) but most games do have a lot of major bugs fixed. WoW for example (even though everyone flames the game it's a good example) may of had a lot of bugs when the game came out and after every patch, but the game itself never had released major features that simply did not work (to the best of my knowledge).
I do agree with you on the pvp part though. Personally I am of a fan of occasional pvp when I get bored but there are too many games where pvp is gear based and not skill based (such as WoW, yes it is based off gear, someone in tier 1 can't beat tier 3) and are based on the fact that you can't get pvp gear without winning, but you can't win without having PvP gear, yay for an infinite loop of ponitlessness. But yeah, MMOs are losing their PvE aspect with all of the pvp involved. Even though games such as WAR do have PvE, there is more PvP or at least they advertise more PvP than PvE. Personally I am a fan of PvE that is skill based (currently the game I want to beat, yet not an MMO, is a skill based rpg, Tales of Vesperia, because it has an active combat system. More MMOs need combat systems like this instead of just being able to stand still and push buttons. Age of Conan came close to this but had so many bugs that it overshadowed what the combat system really had going.)
I don't really think the problem is the developers the problem most likely comes from the publishing companies. Devs want to make the best game they possibly can, they put there life and soul into their work because it's something they are passionate about. Publishers on the other hand are the ones that set timelines and release dates which can constrict the developers creativety because they just don't always have the time needed to put in all the content they want or get it just right like they would want to. And if you know anything about programming there is always going to an unkown problem that you could not see coming when you first start making a something. It's just one of those things that will always happen.
Another issue is now there are so many people to that play MMOs when i started playing there wasn't as many as there was now and you have more people that want different things in a game. Some people love PvP some love PvE some want a mix of both. It gets a lot more indepth then that as well some people care more about how a game looks and how much you can customize your character then how the battle system and gameplay works, some just want a great story and community. The issue isn't the developers it's the fact that no matter which direction a developer wants to take their game it's going to please a few and the majority will not like something about it. One of my favorite MMOs of all time was at one time one of the most hated.
On the topic of WoW, while i did not like the game, you can't take away the fact that it has the most players out of all the games out there right now. This causes some issues because the players are not willing to play a game that doesn't offer a lot of the stuff that game offers. Just like I'm having trouble trying to find a game that doesn't offer what i've learned to love in games I've played in the past. In the end this creates a lot of games with similiar aspects to WoW which either, one makes the WoW haters hate it because it's it's too much like WoW, or the WoW lovers hate the stuff it doesn't have that they've learned to love in WoW or they think it's just more of the same.
I myself would like a game with a mix of what ffxi and L2 have. That will never happen though because those games are so completely different and it would not appeal to the masses. So in the end would be considered a failure even if it had a die hard following like both of those games have.