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Scenario's are killing this game..
Wolfenpride
Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 3,988
I haven't been playing scenarios these last few days just because I find them to repetitive, but something ive come to realize is that these scenarios are killing the the rest of the game.
Just look around outside of one, do you see anyone doing public quests? is their anyone even doing normal quests? has their ever been anyone actually laying siege to one of the keeps/objectives?
Back in open beta it was amazingly easy to join a group for almost any public quest, and their was at least 1 warband in every RvR zone, now I don't know what happened to change that, but these last few weeks theirs maybe 1-2 pve open groups, and if im lucky theirs a open group of 2 people attempting a PQ.
Their is never an open rvr group.
I realize that people find it easy and comfortable to log in, join a scenario, and just breeze through levels and enjoying fighting other players, but these instances are killing off the rest of the game, and I can't help but feel if something doesn't change about it, this game isn't going to take off, it isn't going to become what it was meant to be.
Others say that once they've reached 40, open world rvr will become more common, but I can't help but wonder if thats the case? When you control all the top tier keeps, and theirs not a whole lot of people to fight with, are you really just going to sit around and wait for something to happen? Of course not, your going to queue up for a scenario, for the thrill of just pvping.
My idea for a solution: Eliminate scenarios entirely. But since Im faily sure that won't happen, do something along the lines of limiting, diminishing, or removing the rewards for playing in scenario. Something needs to be done to pull players out of scenarios, and back into the world.
Comments
I disagree, retards are killing scenarios.
Thank you. I'm not alone to think that scenarios are the single main problem of WAR above everything else.
In no particular scenarios are:
- excessively boring after some time;
- they kill world PvP;
- they kill public quests;
- they kill the building of a community which can only be done trough general chat in world zones, because players pop in and out of scenarios without having the time nor the incentive to chit chat;
Everything in this game is so functional... yet all those seemingly "perfect" features are the problem.
My addiction History:
>> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore
>> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual
>> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.
I play on EU Eltharion (Open RvR) and there's always something going on. Each public quest has a constant rolling population, there's almost always 3-7 people doing the PQs. I'm basing this on the first 20 levels to be fair, but so far I haven't had any problems.
Earlier today there were 2 busy World RvR areas at the same time as each other (Maybe more, but 2 for sure).... One was the low rank area in the Chaos/Empire zone which was about 50-60 people (20-30 a side) The other was the mid-rank area in Elf territories with close to 150 people all fighting over keeps. This is on a Tuesday evening!
Scenarios don't seem to ruin my server! But I can understand a low population server having problems :-( I'm not sure if that's purely thanks to scenarios or not!
MMOs played (In order of how much I've liked them): Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft, Vanguard, City of Villains / Heroes, Guild Wars, Warhammer Online, Age of Conan, Tabula Rasa, Anarchy Online, Ryzom, Final Fantasy XI, Matrix Online, RF Online, Rappelz, Hero Online, Roma Victor
That sounds like a dream server compared to the major north american core servers, ive been checking out all the supposedly highest populated servers and for all of them its the same deal it seems, at least for north americans.
Im lucky to run into 1 person in tier 1/tier 2 rvr zones, and objectives and keeps almost never have any fights really going on around them, in tier 1 I was forced to take objectives solo or with 1 - 2 others against no defense, after which their was nothing to do.
Its not the low population servers, im on skull throne atm which is one of the higher populated ones, and this issue is hitting the server hard.
My server is the same (euro server) always groups anywere, adn if I cant find one I make one , always people around.
thing is, My server has ballance, between order and dark, both sides know it . ( order is tactical in controll most of the time in rvr)
on manny other servers order has less people then dark Or they Think so, senarios are considerd a ballanced game ( tho they are not) and best way to lvl (also not treu, its infact way longer then pve)
so manny think they lvl fast and get fair pvp , or atleast a chance to fair pvp
its more of a players mindset problem then realy a game problem. if players start to play order more and aint so darn afrait ofor zergs of darkys then you will see that the game will ballance out,
facts : PQ give best XP, grind them whit a group of friends for fast lvlup, RvR keep siege (starting tier2) are best way to gain pvp levels. ( asuming its 1 vsv 1 warband vs 1 senario game play time)
I like scenarios. One of my #1 likes about the game. Ever think maybe some fps gamers might play MMOGs.
Ive met alot in WAR that play TF2.
RvR is fun but no one ever wins its just endless capture and recapture. And its slow. In scenarios someone wins and someone loses. And its quick n easy to get into and fun.
And every scenario ive been in no one cares about xp. In all the yelling and bitching ive never heard anyone bring up xp. Hell ive seen some players pass on loot that they needed. Had to walk up to one guy and trade with him so he would see what our party got. Thanked me for the new armor and we killed some more order.
RvR has its moments but nothing beats a Scenario. I wish they would add more maps and I hope once I hit 40 they open up all the maps. But im sure itll just be a few at 40
Scenarios are a part of WAR, while it might steal the thunder from what "you" like about the game. Its not killing the game as a whole. Let people enjoy what they want from a game.
What you completely fail to understand is that scenario's are PvP's version of PvE quests. Basicly what you are asking is like someone stating that quests should give little to no loot and xp. If I wanted to PvE I would have stayed in WoW, like oh the majority of people playing WAR atm.
Also a little advice, if you want to run around solo in a MMO, you better get use to not getting what you want, when you want it. Thinking developers need to ruin my fun so that you can have someone to do PQ's with is fucking retarded.
not a problem on my server.
Ah that kinda sucks then!
To be honest, most RvR zones are empty. There's usually something going on in at least one zone, it's just finding out where!
I found out about these 2 from my 2 guilds on my characters. I reckon guilds are pretty important for finding RvR. Both my guilds participate in a lot of Open RvR.
MMOs played (In order of how much I've liked them): Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft, Vanguard, City of Villains / Heroes, Guild Wars, Warhammer Online, Age of Conan, Tabula Rasa, Anarchy Online, Ryzom, Final Fantasy XI, Matrix Online, RF Online, Rappelz, Hero Online, Roma Victor
What you completely fail to understand is that scenario's are PvP's version of PvE quests. Basicly what you are asking is like someone stating that quests should give little to no loot and xp. If I wanted to PvE I would have stayed in WoW, like oh the majority of people playing WAR atm.
Also a little advice, if you want to run around solo in a MMO, you better get use to not getting what you want, when you want it. Thinking developers need to ruin my fun so that you can have someone to do PQ's with is fucking retarded.
Actually I don't consider scenarios pvp's version of quests, simply due to the fact that their are actual pvp quests for RvR lakes, that reward both exp, and renown *unsure* when completed. Killing a certain amount of players, taking a keep, scouting a zone, I consider those PvP quests. Scenarios are just that, scenarios.
I fully understand why scenario's were implemented, and don't get me wrong the idea was good, and I had no problem with it in open beta when it seemed under control.
Im not saying people should be forced to stop joining scenarios, their simply needs to be more motivation to join in open world rvr, and a good way to do that would be limiting the rewards of completeing scenarios, those who still want to join for the thrill quick pvp can, but they should not be rewarded nearly as much as players who go into RvR lakes taking keeps and seizing tiers.
Im not saying players need to be forced to PvE either, thats why there are RvR lakes for those who seriously only want to PvP. However for some players who don't mind PvE, scenarios give them no reason to want to do so because of how much faster it would be to level just joining a scenario, you don't even have to win to get a decent reward.
Oh, and I do not, "run around solo" by choice, its this way because their is no one to group with, and their is no one willing to join and get a group going. And I in no way said they need to "take away your fun" im saying they need to make the other aspects of the game more rewarding, like open world RvR, as opposed to instanced scenario RvR.
OMG PVP KILLING A PVP GAME! CALL THE COPS!
Seriously, leave please. You are bashing the best aspect to pvpers that are only casual players (i.e not gaming geeks) IF you cannot find a group for pq's, join a guild. They don't go to another. Stop your whining on this please and do something about it. Get into a pve guild. They exist.
YOU are killing scenario's with this talk. YOU are part of the reason PQ's are empty. Do you even talk with the strangers around you? Or do you expect people to be camping them all the time? If you don't interact with the peope lvling in the area or camps around then thats your fault. I NEVER failed to get a group for PQ's. I just go to a camp and ask, people who won't even get items will play just for the heck of it.
CASUAL players love this game.
Nerds like you ruin it.
I like caps cause certain words need to stick out. And yes they make you cool to
Enjoy : )
First off, chill out dude please and act civil..
Now I don't think a call for more open world RvR is exactly "hardcore" its simply bringing players out of instances, and getting them to join in taking keeps, defending objectives, and getting involved. It is not hard to get to these areas, and it is not hard at all to open the group tab and join a warband.
I thought I said this in my OP, but I guess ill restate: Its not just PvE that is suffering from scenarios, its the open world RvR, and honestly that is my main area of concern, considering that originally that was suppose to be the main focus on the game. These RvR lakes are dead the majority of the day, keeps aren't exactly seriously fought over, and once again its near impossible to find a RvR group outside of scenarios.
Im not sure how im the reason PvE and open world RvR is dead, seeing how im actively trying to get people to form a group and get things done, the sad fact is though, no one wants to, they are waiting to get into a scenario. Explain more how thats my fault, cause I must've missed something somewhere.
And since your going to start throwing personal insults, let me just say im a very casual player, I go to school during the day, and evenings I go to work, days off im not always running home to get on the computer, I may have other things to do. Yet I feel im progressing just fine in this game, so don't try and make this into a casual vs. hardcore issue.
Ok, here we go. (Not overreacting just like caps)
As far as RVR scenarios are RVR. So please explain the problem. So keeps arn't always under attack or stuff like that. Why you might ask, its because people are lvling. Not just scenario's, but questing to. Everyone is trying to lvl up to beat there opponent. Thats the way mmo's are. Most mid lvl content is never played out in other games when the masses are at a certain lvl range. Mostly in new games like this.
I apoligize for the comment about being a nerd. It seems most of the bashers are from the peeps who spend hours a day at the comp. Not getting satisfied by constant groups everywhere. But its true, people ruin the game, not the scenarios.
People are choosing not to group. But when you want to take the best PVP aspect out of the game your part of the problem. You may not like it. But many,many more do. Your fighting an uphill battle here.
Heres the problem with PQ's. When the time comes after doing the quests to the point of where you hit a PQ, the gear you get there is no longer better then what you have (tier2 and on). So tell me, why waste time there?
I know your trying to get your point across on bad things about this game, but you have to remember these are your problems with it. An to say this game is dieing because of your dislikes is ignorant. Take it for what its worth.
Enjoy : )
Lets buy umbrellas but not prefer to open them when its raining. In the end its all about preference right?
I find scenarios are fun. And since I get more XP in 15 minutes in a scenario than running around in PvE as well as renown they tend to attract the people that want to level faster.
What I find annoying is - as soon as I run into a RvR area it pops me into the scenario queue. If I wanted to do a scenario I would have clicked that myself. Maybe they had an issue with not enough people doing scenarios so the queue time to get in was long so they added this in one of the hot fixes. Please remove it.
Being able to jump into any of the scenarios in the tier is nice. It would be better if the rest of my party came along when I join as scenario queue as a party. It seems a bit hit and miss at the moment.
Maybe gear is the issue - I find better gear at the renown merchant (and more of it) than I get from influence vendor (PQ's). So therefore I want to increase my renown as quickly as possibly and it seems scenarios are best for doing this at the moment.
I must admit that I'm beginning to feel the same way as the OP but I have not left the first tier yet so maybe I'm not in the best situation to judge. I have played on two servers so far......one is Alarielle (Open RvR RP) and the other is Sea of Dreams (Open RvR).
Alarielle tends to only reach a medium population which is a shame really because I find its inhabitants to be far more sociable and friendly and its more entertaining when people chat to you in character......it kind of alleviates the monotony of the grindy design of the game. Sea of Dreams is a heavily populated server in which I have to queue to get in at peak times. Unfortuantely the players I have met there just arent as fun to play with but at least there are more of them.
In both of them I have encounted the same issue which is really boring me silly. Nordenwatch......its the ONLY scenario for that tier that anyone ever plays in and I have no idea why. A week ago I managed to get into Khaines embace a few times on the Alarielle server but then it just stopped. I have NEVER been in Gates of Ekrund.....not even once.
But regardless of this I am generally not getting any impression at all of being a part of an army fighting for my realm. Like other people have mentioned I think the big reason for this is the players mentality. All anyone thinks about is gaining levels to the exclusion of everything else, which to me seems really odd. What is the big deal about rushing to level 40 anyway? Your character goes up levels regardless of what you do (the game practicly forces exp down your throat) so why skip the whole "fighting for your realm" idea just to get to the end of it?
Most people just dont seem to care about attacking or defending points on the map because it doesnt actually impact on them personally and who can blame them? It SHOULD matter but it just doesnt. I feel this is a big flaw in the game. I just dont care at all if the opposite side gains control of the zone I am.......I just carry on like a mindless drone grinding my way through all the tedious quests as I wait for the next scenario to become available (which is always f**king Nordenwatch!). Half the time I'm wondering why I am even playing the game because it just feels like yet another PvE grinding session which was what I hated in WoW. The PvP aspect does help to alleviate the boredom of doing quests. Come on lets face it......they are completely shit and are only there to give you a means to gain levels. I realise though that the reason I keep playing this game is the same reason I play most mmos. Its the holy quest for the mythical golden carrot........except it doesnt hold my attention for long anymore. I've played mmos like this so many times before and its getting really stale in WAR already and I'm only in my second week.
Where are the tactical battles between mighty armies which is what I remember the tabletop games being all about? Where are the squads of dwarves valiantly holding off a horde of greenskins while they wait for reinforcements to arrive? No I dont mean all the PvE story bollocks that is happening everywhere because thats not REALLY happening. I want the players to be doing it not the bloody npcs that are stuck in a perpetual never-ending cycle of pointlessness.
What I think this game needs is more of a reason for fighting in open RvR areas. There should be more of an impact on the gameworld when a side has control of something. I'm thinking about the Battlefield games. When players gain control of a point on the map in that game, all the players from that side can respawn from the control point. There is a strategic reason for holding that point of the map. In WAR the only thing that happens is that players can get a bonus.
I realise that the respawning idea might not be suitable for WAR but what about allowing players to send npc's from a captured keep to attack other areas of the map? So a player could talk to the npc commander of the captured point and have a list of places that the npcs could attack........and some of those targets could be in PvE areas so it would have a major impact on the other sides ability to complete quests. Everyone would be forced to pay attention to what is going on in each zone. I would love it if the monotony of grinding through some dull quest was suddenly broken as a gang of powerful npc's suddenly took over an area I was in. Then the only way I could complete my mission would be to aid in taking back the control point we had lost.
Unfortunately I really dont think anything this interesting is ever going to happen in WAR. I guess I will just grind my way through it like any other mmo and once I have reached level 40 then I will see what happens. From what I have seen so far I'm not really expecting too much but maybe it will surprise me. Then its on to the next game I guess.
I think you may have the autojoin scenario enabled. There is a toggle for it on the options screen.
OP, u´re not alone!
See:
vnboards.ign.com/warhammer_online_age_of_reckoning_general_board/b22997/108908014/p1/
www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php
I can link more if u want...
I still haven't played WAR, but any DAOC vet will tell you that EZ-mode pvp hurts the RVR game.
Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice.
Scenario's definatelly kill this game.
I also have the feeling that many, not all , of the people saying their servers are fine and plenty of people play pq's and there's rvr to be found are people who play on a fairly new server where things are fresh still. I think this all depends on how many new players the server populates and how big the amount of beta players is for instance.
Some servers will maybe stay this active while others once the freshness is gone will become like the rest of the servers where tier 1 to 3 rvr will be virtually non existent, maybe tier 1 empire will for alts.
Also many say tier4 will be fine. It will not be fine trust me. Sure they will do some keep defense and attacks but in between they will just continue to grind scenario's so most likely skirmishes in the zones will be a rare thing to see. So rvr wont be what it should be.
On eight peaks, busy server, i witnessed destruction taking back their keep in avalorn and 1 warband of order, i play order, being present trying to prevent the retake of the keep. This while in the warcamp in averlorn were at least enough people qued for scenario's for another 2 warbands. They refused to participate and just stood there doing nothing.
All people care about now is lvl asap and expect tier4 to be fun rvr. They are mistaken. All you have to do is look at yourself and realize you will not change, you will always choose scenario's over rvr since scenario's is what gives you way better renown gain, and xp.
Scenario's definately kill warhammer. New arrivals will be very dissapointed to find out the only thing they have is doing scenario's till rank 40, then grind another 40 renown ranks in scenario's for the endgame.
And yes pve is way more deserted then it should be. Some zones have some activity but alot do not. People realize the pq gear gets outlvld fast enough if you simply do scenario's so there's less and less need to get pq gear. Besides, why bother to quest with low xp rewards while you get 5 times more in scenario's.
Scenario's are very bad for warhammer. Not to mention they get insanely boring fast enough. Specially if noone ever ques for any scenario but 1 or 2. Well at rank 40 you will be stuck to playing the same scenario's over and over again for the entire end game. That is if mythic will not fix this issue soon.
Scenario's might be fun for you now but try to imagine playing the same scenario's for 10 lvls. Then try to imagine once you are rank 40 doing the same scenario's for another 40 + renown ranks. I bet you will get bored very fast. And for what ? Just so you become better to play scenario's again lol ? I want to become better so i can play rvr which is dynamic. Scenario's are just static and you can even run around naked and stil gain xp and renown and accomplish the same thing as you would do with gear on.
They need to increase the rewards (renown/xp/etc) for Open RvR. I think this will alleviate the issue some. Also don't forget you have to win scenarios along with taking keeps in a certain areas to change it over.
This game is basically a grind to nowhere. The main draw of the game which was rvr is almost nonexistent. I think the scenarios contribute to it. People will tend to take the path of least resistence and its alot easier to grind scenarios than capture keeps.
Well explained, I totally agree.
At this moment on Montañas negras , core server for spanish, and the most populated, no one plays RvR and almost everyone is leveling on scenarios.
PvE land and PQ`s are empty ofcourse.
i agree , scenarios, are already a big issue.
/signed
This game is like queueing up for battleground at the battlemaster in WoW unfortunately. I was hoping for a lot more world action but again we have another bg party.
Many of us closed beta testers tried to warn them about the concerns with scenarios and how it changes the interaction of the community and world feel for the game as a whole. It definatley takes away from the MMO feeling when scenarios overshadow the rest of the game.