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War: A nice diversion with no heart (Review: 8.0)
donjn
Member UncommonPosts: 816
EDIT: Review Score has been adjusted to an 8.0
Let me start off by saying I like Warhammer Online very much. It does not feel like the Pavlov grind for gear experiment that Blizzard implemented and profited from in WoW after seeing us reach for the carrots on a stick in Diablo II for free.
However, Warhammer is lacking in the "addictive" factor. I am able to log off at any time I want without thinking "just one more quest". Maybe Mythic decided that they did not want to insult their audience by creating artificial time sinks (flight paths, etc) and decided to treat us like real, intelligent gamers who wanted something different.
Maybe we weren't ready...Either that or many ideas do not make a great, well-rounded game.
Warhammer does many things very well. I found the interface and gameplay to be quite good. All the menus make sense, and it is refreshing to see the menus on top of the screen rather than sandwiched at the bottom near your skills. There are several morale-driven abilities that you can "equip" at various times giving your character several options at how to approach the given situation. This is even more of a thought-provoking decision with healing classes. The class balance is quite good for a new MMO, and here's hoping that Mythic does not over think "nerfs" and "buffs". I think most people will agree that they can stay right where they are. (Well, maybe a slight nerf to the DoA class..lol)
The quests are structured to lead you into a certain direction and often don’t make you go out of your way. Collection quests off of monsters are great, as if when you need "horns" they will always drop from that creature (WoW fans know how annoying this can be). The game definitely has a nice flow, and you can tell a lot of thought went into the structure.
Still, whatever the case may be I will say that Warhammer lacks the "it" quality. You know, that girl you dated or that favorite movie you can watch over and over again? Warhammer almost feels like it has no soul. It feels like a bunch of really good ideas thrown together.
A good example is Altdorf. This is a very large city, but it is quite nondescript. It is a series of alleys and buildings with nothing special going on. I expected upon entering Altdorf to hear some epic music but I was disappointed. Surely as I approached the king's giant building (sorry if I don’t know the name) I would hear this epic score with bombastic trumpets playing, etc..... Nothing. Silence. So I walk...and walk....and walk and see door after door that cannot be opened. This is something that will always bug me about games. If there is a door, you should be able to open it, but that is a personal rant of mine.
The Public Quests are interesting but there is one public quest in the Empire zone where the trees get knocked over by a giant. Once the quest is over, it resets and the trees go back upright. It is like a Western Show at Universal Studios or the tram ride where water knocks over everything and then it resets for the next passersby. Obviously it has to be this way, but it just feels odd like an amusement park.
The Tome of Knowledge is an awesome feature (obviously lifted from Lord of the RIngs Online) that really gives you a nice sense of history within the game. The obsessed will have a field day trying to unlock everything.
I really enjoy the pvp even though I usually play pve. My only gripe is about the Destruction dominance. There are many hybrid pve/pvp quests that want you to scope out areas and they are almost always controlled by Destruction. Scenarios are basically like Battlegrounds from WoW but much better. The idea that you can gain experience from kills is great, and the Destruction dominance within scenarios is almost non-existent. In World PvP, keeps and strategic points can be taken over and it is quite a rush to do so. You can tell this game was made for pvp and it is definitely the strong point.
Crafting is such an oversight that I will not go into too long accept to say that it just does not logically make sense at all. It has no coherence because in order to be a crafter you need to gather in two specializations (one can argue three actually), which you cannot.
The graphics when cranked up are actually quite nice. My issue is that there are games out there that have graphics that blow this game out of the water and run more smoothly. In fact, Age of Conan is a great example. I am very hard on engine optimization. This is why I have always praised LOTRO, which I feel has the best graphics/performance ratio of all the MMOs. The view distance is also disappointing, as there as basically no attempt at capturing gorgeous vistas or far away mountains. Again, how can a game be so graphically limited yet not optimized? This engine also does not use your GPU to its fullest.
These issues aside, I enjoy Warhammer for what it is, a good diversion. But the MMO audience has become picky, and that is a good thing. A bunch of great ideas thrown together is no longer passable especially when people are used to games that actually have a real music score, and most of all, have some heart..
My Score: 7.6
Comments
some good points for sure,you rated it higher than I however.i'd give it a 5.5,a lot of good elements but as you say it has no heart and is lacking that addictive factor...i didn't even make it 2 weeks.
A well written and constructive review regardless of how I find your opinions.
Of the 20 or so WAR reviews that have been posted by non-professional journalists today, this is my favourite
I feel the same way in regards to heart and realism.
Like you said the game seems to be missing something that makes it feel like an epic adventure. The public quests are nice, but considering they always reset it's not much fun after doing them a few times. Thats if you can get them done as some public quests don't get done at all. I usually find people crowded around one public quest in a area while the others are empty.
The carrot on a stick is an important aspect of games. You need to have something you are always working twords weather it be equipment or levels/skills. This is where the addictive part of the games comes from. Without it there wont be sufficient motivation to keep leveling/skilling up.
I also agree with your point on the doors not opening. I have a similar feeling with not being able to swim underwater or jump over obsticles in games.
Overall Warhammer is a good game, but it doesn't have anything that makes you want to keep playing it over and over again. People say PvP will keep people around longer then PvE, but if Warhammer is any example I don't believe that is the case. PvE will always keep people around longer because of all the carrots on a stick you get with those type of games.
Thanks for your words.
I am getting ripped a new one here: www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php
I think I struck a nerve with them..
Wow... I read some of that link, and those people are just plain pathetic. They are reacting like you just told them their child was fat and ugly. Looks like a sea of blatent fanbois.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Well, over there you waltzed into the lions den, and began tossing around fresh meat.
Of course they're going to skewer you...and I expect you'll draw a few barbs here.
But I thought you did a good job expressing your reaction to the game, and saying why it wasn't grabbing you.
Hasn't really caught my interest yet either, but I still plug away from time to time.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Very well written post.
But I have an answer for you, and probably for the industry.
MMORPGs are not just games, any developer that approaches with this philosophy will fail.
If I want to play a game to have a couple of hours fun, I play an offline game like Morrowind.
If I want to play a fun PvP game online that I can play when I feel like, I play a Multiplayer game like Battlefield or Unreal Tournement.
Those are games, because you can switch on/off from them whenever you like.
MMORPGs although technically are games, are more like hobbies, which you dedicate lot of time to develope your character and make him part of that virtual world.
MMORPGs aren't meant to be too casual, or beeing "just" games that you can play or stop playing when it suits you.
MMORPGs should be like virtual words, and you should feel part of the world.
WoW is not a casual game (contrary of what people think), people who spends all weekend raiding or grinding honor are not casual players, although the game feels like a casual game due to the easy interface.
WAR and AoC are failing because they are very casual, they are fun to play, but they lack the addictive factor..........because they are "just" games.
They look more like Multiplayer games converted on a massive scale, but the world is souless.
They don't offer much more than multiplayer games, so why should anybody play them for more than 3 months?
Developers need to understand that real casual player doesn't exists in MOORPG, if something there are people with more time and people with less time.
A real casual player won't be hooked to any MMO for more than few months, because they are very volatile.
If devs want to have any chances to challenge WoW, they should NOT target the kind of player described above.
Simple as that.
I thought it was a pretty good review. I only played the beta, it convinced me that it was not the game for me. Of course DAoC burnt me out on retaking keep after keep. Unfortunately, that is all there is to do in the end game of War. Some people really like that.
As a game I would rate it far higher than AoC, but not as high as Wow or even Lotro. But then, I am more a sandbox type guy, so theme parks are really not my style. So I will continue to play Eve while I sample the new ones.
I agree with the music, there isn't much and adding it would improve the feel of the game. And the performance could use work, it seems to have inproved but could still use work. The graphics didn't bother me at all.
What I can't agree with at all is the addictive quality, for me at least, it is more addictive because a lack of carrot on a stick type design, that is a very off putting aspect to me that keeps me from enjoying most MMOs, I like that I can play Warhammer for a little bit and feel like I did something and enjoy what I am doing rather than enduring the work required to get some uber thing. So far I am playing Warhammer because I actually enjoy it and not to hopefully get to an interesting part in the game, like most other MMOs, or just because my friends are playing.
But alas I think you are right in saying most people need that, and that leads me to another problem is that there are not enough people, if there were more people then I think that would make PvP more fun.
Don't you worry little buddy. You're dealing with a man of honor. However, honor requires a higher percentage of profit
A VERY good review. I say that rarely, but I agree with every single word of the OP. Entirely how I feel about all of it myself. I think this is the only fair review I have seen so far.
I was thinking about the issues of WAR some times now. Usually when I start a new MMO I am either addicted at least a while, or I hate it very fast and go. WAR is the first which fits to neither, and somehow I still wonder why.
One of the keys IMO to understand WAR is, some of the devs compared WAR to a sports you do. There are teams and you play for your team, looking how each tier and guild fares asf. They never aspired to make the game like a big adventure or a living, authentic world. At least thats what I think, and in that aspect WAR is entirely different than DAoC. In WAR Mythic tried to make a constant RVR battle game, like some sort of weekend/evening sports. Thats why a certain audience loves it, those are the same who fought over the same control points in Planetside OVER AND OVER without ever really wishing to reach a goal or have an adventure. I see WAR now as some kind of Planetside-game with some plusses added.
It is clearly visible that EVERYTHING outside the RVR stuff is added as an afterthought, not bad, but reduced to be functional, like the Graphics, the Quests, the PVE, the lore & atmosphere.
What I assume is, after a few months the "classic MMO players" will have played one or two character through and leave to the next MMO - or return to their old ones, and only the RVR geeks will remain. Sorry to sound skeptic, but thats the way of ALL over-specialized MMOs, as is the case with AoC, which specialized in the flashy, brutal combat over the neglectance of every other part. I cant say if this is purprose of Mythic or if they were not aware. But I highly doubt WAR will be anything but a niche game in the long run.
Elder Scrolls feels more like a MMO than WAR, and it's single player.
WAR certainly has no soul. Mythic removed the "virtual world" aspect of this game and made it just that, a game. It's not an online gathering of people, it's a multitude of single player games running simultaneously on a server.
For me, WAR represents just how low this industry has fallen. This industry has devolved to a point in which developers are putting together games that aren't even structured like MMOs.
The dumbing down of this industry has caused such a loss of innovation that the games released today are WORSE than the ones released before 2003. WAR and AOC are hopefully the bottom of the pond. It appears that there are a fresh batch of games on the way that have innovation.
Often in the business field innovation comes from small business and it appears to mimic this in the MMO industry as well. The next crop of games that are being developed by small, indy developers promise far more depth and innovation than the garbage we get from EA, SOE, and the other big boys.
Hopefully 2009 is the year that this industry does a 180 and starts to produce quality content again.
Tecmo Bowl.
AoC and WAR both added little bits. It wouldn't surprise me if Blizzards "Project Hydra" was sort of like WoW 2. You taking all the awesome aspects of the last 4 years of failed games and placing it into one MMO. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if we saw someone clone WoW's game building style and become the next big thing.
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Meow
AoC and WAR both added little bits. It wouldn't surprise me if Blizzards "Project Hydra" was sort of like WoW 2. You taking all the awesome aspects of the last 4 years of failed games and placing it into one MMO. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if we saw someone clone WoW's game building style and become the next big thing.
What would Blizzard's great formula be?
If you go back to the RTS industry in the 1990's Blizzard had large success with the Warcraft series and Starcraft.
Warcraft was always a much DUMBER version of the Age of Empires games. It was much easier to play and was popular because anyone could play it.
Starcraft is the best game Blizzard has made. It was unique for the time. It was simple, but it was unique.
WoW is just a continuation of that system of making very easy and simple games.
Blizzard appeals to the masses and makes very playable games of which many people can play. The barrier of entry for gamers playing thier titles is slim to none.
Go back, put in your Warcraft games, then put in your Age of Empire games and see how much more simple they are to play. Blizzard doesn't innovate, they just make complete games that are easy to play and can be marketed to a large pool of consumers. That is their success.
Tecmo Bowl.
Blizzard paved the way to a ruining age of gaming technology. All games out nowadays (or most) feel they need to copy WoW. Not only to get the big fan base to make all that money but also to get the players to keep the game running. I hate World Of Warcraft for the community it has brought to the mmorpg world. The immature community.
Warhammer is just another cookie-cutter similar to World Of Warcraft. When will a new Genre of games come out that we can say 'wtfthisrox' to? I can't wait for a new game with creative ideas to come out. I'm sick of these same ol same ol games with 15% new ideas added to them.
Overall, good review. Hit a lot of good points. I feel like the games coming out nowadays aren't necessarily looking at the important things that games need. I want better sound quality, a little better graphics (at least up to date with the graphics out nowadays), and a little more complete before release. With the massive memory leakage (being worked on) many are getting a decent amount of lag in game due to this among other problems with the game engine. I feel like games like Requiem and Lineage 2 run much better then Warhammer. No lag and much better graphics. I get on Warhammer on low settings (LOL) and it lags....low settings compared to high settings on Warhammer don't make much of a difference...it's their game engine causing this. The game isn't complete. Hopefully they continue the hard work they've been putting into the game.
Suggestion: Don't post negative reviews on Warhammer forums. Fanbois take it the wrong way and complain because they love the game. Why should someone that has negatives about a game give it a 9 or a 10? 9 or a 10 means PERFECT. This game is far from perfect. I gave it a 7.8 on my Review for the many flaws this game has. I'll still play it from time to time, but it's still just an ok game.
Sieging is good in WAR, but that's about it. I find everything else is too simplistic and dumbed down to be of any real fun, you could almost play the game with your eyes closed.
Classes are pretty boring too. Definitely not up to DAoC's standards in my opinion and won't be keeping me past the 30 day mark. I actually enjoyed Conan more, even in it's buggy unfinished state, least it had a soul.
What got me addicted to WoW was the music and zones. Taking the journey from Darkshore to IF to Westfall was pure epicness. Going through Wetlands and running/shadowmelding from horde gankers was mad fun. When I first discovered the Barrens on my nelf hunter (stfu my nelf hunter was pimp), I was up all night pvping there. I think leveling 1-60 on my nelf hunter took 30days play time, but it's cause I wasn't trying to rush through it.
Playing classic WoW for the first time rivals Zelda OOT for me.
You gave in at the end of that thread and raised your score does that make you feel internet-bullied into submission?
I rate WAR a 6/10 and that is a good score for it's current state.
Thanks, That's the best way to put it. I finished OOT more times than i can count, because it was plain perfect... playing WoW for the first time was also a wonderful experience, and i did lvl 4 other characters before being burned out. It's all about blending graphics, combat system, lore, UI, hubs, alltogether in the right way.
Personnally, another game that got me this "WOW" feeling was God of War 2. Went trough it 20 times at least, and i still want more.
My addiction History:
>> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore
>> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual
>> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.
The main problem I have with this game at the moment is the population. Theres 2 hour queues, sometimes 3 hour queues for all the open PvP servers in Europe. But when you are actually playing the game, there are very few people around.
Its as if everyone is either in scenarios, or as the gamespot review pointed out everyone is just spread too thin. They really need to address this problem first, and quickly, perhaps by getting better servers to handle large amounts of people that the game seems to have been designed for but just lacks the players to make it enjoyable.
A lot of the other problems with this game are directly related to its polish, the game just is not finished. It needs more work, but I am sure after 2 months or so, if they keep up the quality of patches and frequency of them it will be a good game.
The one problem that I dont think can be fixed with this game is the community, it seems to have the most anti social people in any mmo I have encountered, and I dont think the blame can be put entirely on the terrible chat interface.
Hopefully they get their act together, this game has a lot of potential but it seems to be suffering from design flaws that are holding it back, and a game that does not encourage even a decent community.
This is what a lot of people are saying - it's a nice game with no heart - people like it and they appreciate the effort that the developers have clearly put in, but it is undeniably lacking in something. I felt it after playing for a couple of hours. Don't know exactly what, and MMOs always develop after they've been running for a while, but I think Mythic need to focus on this missing something because so many gamers are talking about it in relation to Warhammer. The OP hit the nail on the head when he said you could log off at any time without feeling that you should stay in for just five minutes longer - It's hard to feel that you're a part of the Warhammer universe, maybe that's the problem.
I will have to agree on this. I too played for a while, and felt it was missing that feeling. The feeling that I feel when I play WOW is good. I want to be in WOW and do whatever it is I am doing.
But WAR saddly does not have that feel. I like a number of the game play ideas. I think it has great graphics and a new view on things. It is the feeling of life that is missing and that I think is one thing that you can not patch.
You gave in at the end of that thread and raised your score does that make you feel internet bullied into submission?
I rate WAR a 6/10 and that is a good score for it's current state.
Yeah I gave in. I am really not sure what to think of this game right now
I still believe everything I wrote, so that is what matters.
World of Warcraft feels "alive". You are in an actual world. A world with no borders, no loading screens. A world with several continents on a globe. Not sections of land like Warhammer.
In World of Warcraft you know where you are globally on these continents. In games like AoC and Warhammer I still cant figure out why I am in a world where I only get to explore this little section of land. There are many vistas and mountaintops I cant get to. In AoC and Warhammer can you really say where you are on the globe? Is it a globe?
AoC isn't doing great, but its not failing. People still play it, and people still enjoy it, it might take a while to recoup its cost, but I dont see it shutting down any time soon. Not to mention...
Its faaaar too early to call WAR a failure. I know I've been splashing around in the endgame of WAR and sofar I've been having a LOT of fun. There sure is a heck of a lot more to do right now than there was in AoC and a ton more than WoW when I first got to endgame.
Even if it was terrible, the majority of players are still leveling up, which was really well done in my opinion. To say its a failure is like saying a Hockey Team is a failure cause it did bad in the pre-season.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
AoC isn't doing great, but its not failing. People still play it, and people still enjoy it, it might take a while to recoup its cost, but I dont see it shutting down any time soon. Not to mention...
Its faaaar too early to call WAR a failure. I know I've been splashing around in the endgame of WAR and sofar I've been having a LOT of fun. There sure is a heck of a lot more to do right now than there was in AoC and a ton more than WoW when I first got to endgame.
Even if it was terrible, the majority of players are still leveling up, which was really well done in my opinion. To say its a failure is like saying a Hockey Team is a failure cause it did bad in the pre-season.
Shutting down its servers would be that its a failure.
A massive decrease of its playerbase would be that its failing.
I just wanted to make this clear.