PLEASE!!! No "Official" Forums for KOTOR ONLINE!!! This is my plea and I mean it with every fiber of my being, I really hope that Lucas and BiOWARE will not have Official Forums. Nothing tears apart a community faster than the forums. Just look at WoW, AoC, and SWG. You know I'm right!
1) Whenever I hear about a game without official forums, I immediately assume that game is crap. So do most people I know. Generally, I have found that I am right.
2) My experience has always been that games without forums have a difficult time establishing any sort of community. I've never seen a case where the forums are responsible for the meltdown of community... this is always the fault of the game/dev team.
3) Official forums are an incredibly powerful tool for a game publisher. Official forums allow them to control the "message". They allow the game publisher to exert at least some control over the community. Vanguard tried to do this using only unofficial forums... and it failed miserably.
From my experience, most forums are messes. It often breaks down into the mods and the mods friends talking to each other.
But what really pisses me off about most official forums for games is that they claim to want advice - but then take down any posts that they personally don't like. What happens is that eventually a couple of guys seem to be the only ones getting listened too (and said guys ideas often suck.)
HAHAHAHA!!!! Is this one of those threads that blame the failure of a game on the shoulders of players and forums? News flash: MMOs fail because they're crap and / or there are issues with the developers. Bad games and bad dev teams will fail, and having forums or not will not prevent it. What not having official forums will do is it prevents a central meeting place for your PLAYERS, i.e. PAYING CUSTOMERS to congragate at. You know, like minds getting together to share a common theme or goal. Warhammer Online currently has no official forums. It's doing well, yes, but IMO, the players are splintered off with a piss-poor sense of community. Same thing I saw with Guild Wars. Both have no official forums. If your game is good, then have no worries about official forums. If your game is bad, then having forums or not will not matter. You won't be able to hide for much longer how craptastic your game is.
UMMMM...
NEVER said Official Forums cause games to "FAIL". Go back and read the post.
K-THX!
Well, actually what you said is that forums tear the online game community apart. Are you suggeting now that you can have a succesful game with a torn apart community? That seems like a contradiction to me.
Even if we stick with the apparent suggestion that a game can succeed with a fragmented community, I've seen very healthy forum communities that add to the game, when the game is made well and players and devs work together with an attitude of mutual respect.
What you seem to be suggesting is that allowing communication ruins online communities. That kind of seems like saying that turning off the news will make the world a better place. I kind of wish that was true, but I don't think it is.
From my experience, most forums are messes. It often breaks down into the mods and the mods friends talking to each other. But what really pisses me off about most official forums for games is that they claim to want advice - but then take down any posts that they personally don't like. What happens is that eventually a couple of guys seem to be the only ones getting listened too (and said guys ideas often suck.)
Omg, its not being called KOTOR for frakkin sakes it being called THE OLD REPUBLIC which can take place from any time from KOTOR to the end of the REPUBLIC during the Clone Wars and the rise of the EMPIRE BEGAN....with all the craze about Lucas liking the Clone Wars it may be about the Clone Wars instead....I mean a new animated Clone Wars Movie and a live action TV show next year taking place after the Clone Wars filling in the 20 yr gap from Episode III to a New Hope. I wish people would stop calling it KOTOR though...cause its been reported thats its not even being called that...
I agree from what I have read from reliable sources is that they are making a Kotor 3,but its not a mmo,its another console rpg. Now for the new Star Wars MMo,I heard it is The Clone Wars Online and makes more sense to me for them to go this route.
that would be awesome, I love the kotor series and would hate for the series to be ruined by a mmo.
similar to what blizzard did with my beloved WC rts franchise.
i think they should open teh forums late, lke wait 3-4 months when people know whether the game is for them or not, and then open forums. The crap that gets said on forums in the beginning is incredible.
My view on Official Forums are that they are an absolute MUST as they:
1) Helps communication between Devs and Players - i.e. any changes that need to be made or important information exchanges.
2) Helps build a decent community spirit - early SWG for example - just need decent mods who will put an end to trolling sharpish - yet understand what free speach is :P (hard to accomplish but doable)
3) Look at WARs realease and don't tell me there was a butt load of confusion as no one really knew where to get information from - or players were getting pissy as info was posted on a number of diff forums at different points in time and there was no real synergy.
4) "newly realeased mmos destroyed by the forums" - absolute w*nk! Recent games have been nothing but rubbish - WAR was meant to be innovative, new, fun - sadly was none of these things was actually buggy as hell, and lacked a decent 'hook'
AoC promised a bucket load of features i.e. sieges - this was never implemented, infact only just has but there is hardly anyone around to take part! lol the drama
Vanguard - what more can I say - SOE anyone?
I think this game needs forums for it to grow and flourish, that being said yes forums will accelerate its destruction if its a load of crap...probably not a bad thing as I would rather save my 10 quid a month if thats the case - just gotta hope for a decent Star Wars game ^^
any company that spends millions making a game and then won't pay for a forum will not get my money. centralized forums are important for many reasons. mostly because customers should feel the company cares enough to have their own forums so they can have some interaction with the dev team. even when it's childish bickering, trolling, and complaints. besides it's better to have the troublemakers on one forum instead of all over the internets.
If I remember rightly, Vanguard didn't have an official forum at the start. Sigil spouted crap how it helps affiliates make communities. And it was HELL trying to get coherent details directly from the devs on anything. I suspect that the many WAR forums are too. So when the official Vanguard forums went live, people started to actually SEE the devs responding (that is, when they did) rather than hearing it "third hand".
AOC's forums are heaven compared to the likes of WoW. However AOC's forums are far from perfect. The EU forums are actually quite respectful because they are moderated properly (some would say almost too much). But it's had the desired effect.
Official forums keep all the essential information from the devs in one place. People can discuss things as a much larger community rather than in "splinter" forum groups, locked away in the darkest recesses of the net.
Perpectually generating hate and anger, growing and growing.......until it reaches near boiling point......Its members lashing out at people who come near or who try to give a different point of view....
I can see the whiney posts now. "Bioware equals Maleware". Or "omg , omg, omg! I can't roleplay under this amount of preasure in the middle of a PvP zone".
HAHAHAHA!!!! Is this one of those threads that blame the failure of a game on the shoulders of players and forums? News flash: MMOs fail because they're crap and / or there are issues with the developers. Bad games and bad dev teams will fail, and having forums or not will not prevent it. What not having official forums will do is it prevents a central meeting place for your PLAYERS, i.e. PAYING CUSTOMERS to congragate at. You know, like minds getting together to share a common theme or goal. Warhammer Online currently has no official forums. It's doing well, yes, but IMO, the players are splintered off with a piss-poor sense of community. Same thing I saw with Guild Wars. Both have no official forums. If your game is good, then have no worries about official forums. If your game is bad, then having forums or not will not matter. You won't be able to hide for much longer how craptastic your game is.
UMMMM...
NEVER said Official Forums cause games to "FAIL". Go back and read the post.
K-THX!
Well, actually what you said is that forums tear the online game community apart. Are you suggeting now that you can have a succesful game with a torn apart community? That seems like a contradiction to me.
Even if we stick with the apparent suggestion that a game can succeed with a fragmented community, I've seen very healthy forum communities that add to the game, when the game is made well and players and devs work together with an attitude of mutual respect.
What you seem to be suggesting is that allowing communication ruins online communities. That kind of seems like saying that turning off the news will make the world a better place. I kind of wish that was true, but I don't think it is.
NO!
What I am saying is that between the Fanboi and Troll agenda, the Community suffers. The bottom line is that people that DO NOT have the best interest of the game at Heart, break into the Official Forums and engage in behaviors that gives the game a bad name. Giving these people Offiicial Forums, gives them access to a stage they simply don't deserve. These people abuse the system to amuse themselves. They do it not to make the game better, but because they are Bored at the moment.
Official Forums are nothing more than Battlegrounds for Trolls and Fanbois...These days it does more harm than good.
Just make it so you cant enter the forums unless you are a paying customer. I totaly agree with having official forums for your game it just helps the community help each other. New people can get questions answered easier about classes, quests, zones, and mobs, Devs dont have to go searching for players opinions, or ideas about the game, or maybe ideas that players might have to help improve the game.
The only official forums I have ever been a part of were Age of Conan's, and that was because since I was in the beta I wanted to see the technical issues that were already known so I didn't waste the devs time with bug reports they already had a thousand complaints about. At first I didn't pay any attention to the troll threads, but after a while I began to agree with what they were saying about the game.
Now did I end up disliking the game because the forum made me focus on the bad to the point where I lost track of the good? It certainly played a part in it.
I don't think the devs can get anything really constructive out of a mess like that, since they would have to dig thier way through a pile of incoherent ranting to get to anything even slightly useful. Nerf this, change that, this sucks, you suck, your mom sucks...it's just worthless.
They just need to play the game themselves and make thier decisions based on thier own expiriences. It's impossible to satisfy everyone, so why bother to listen to them all argue about it?
When playing SWG I rarely went outside of the Scylla Galaxy Trade Forum. Sometimes I would go to our galaxies general forum to see if any player events were coming up or for pvp events. The class and SWG general forums I stayed well away from due to the flame wars that spawned there. Of all the games I have played, I made it a rule to stay out of class forums altogether and limited trips to the general forums. I have to acknowledge the OP having a point about some of the game forums being abused, but other parts of those forums are helpful to the players and well worth having. Cannot have one forum without having the rest and I would rather have them than to not have them.
HAHAHAHA!!!! Is this one of those threads that blame the failure of a game on the shoulders of players and forums? News flash: MMOs fail because they're crap and / or there are issues with the developers. Bad games and bad dev teams will fail, and having forums or not will not prevent it. What not having official forums will do is it prevents a central meeting place for your PLAYERS, i.e. PAYING CUSTOMERS to congragate at. You know, like minds getting together to share a common theme or goal. Warhammer Online currently has no official forums. It's doing well, yes, but IMO, the players are splintered off with a piss-poor sense of community. Same thing I saw with Guild Wars. Both have no official forums. If your game is good, then have no worries about official forums. If your game is bad, then having forums or not will not matter. You won't be able to hide for much longer how craptastic your game is.
UMMMM...
NEVER said Official Forums cause games to "FAIL". Go back and read the post.
K-THX!
Well, actually what you said is that forums tear the online game community apart. Are you suggeting now that you can have a succesful game with a torn apart community? That seems like a contradiction to me.
Even if we stick with the apparent suggestion that a game can succeed with a fragmented community, I've seen very healthy forum communities that add to the game, when the game is made well and players and devs work together with an attitude of mutual respect.
What you seem to be suggesting is that allowing communication ruins online communities. That kind of seems like saying that turning off the news will make the world a better place. I kind of wish that was true, but I don't think it is.
NO!
What I am saying is that between the Fanboi and Troll agenda, the Community suffers. The bottom line is that people that DO NOT have the best interest of the game at Heart, break into the Official Forums and engage in behaviors that gives the game a bad name. Giving these people Offiicial Forums, gives them access to a stage they simply don't deserve. These people abuse the system to amuse themselves. They do it not to make the game better, but because they are Bored at the moment.
Official Forums are nothing more than Battlegrounds for Trolls and Fanbois...These days it does more harm than good.
I'm not sure what you're saying "NO!" to exactly. I'm unclear on whether or not you think forums cause games to fail.
That aside, I think I understand this much: "troll" versus "fanboi" wars (your words not mine) create unnecessary problems for MMO communitites. Is that what you're saying? If so, then I agree that deceptive viral marketting is a pain in the ass, and so is disrespectful or abusive behaviour.
This still doesn't suggest to me that forums are a bad idea though. Again, look at CoH/CoV. I've been posting there for 2 years, and haven't been involved in even one flame war. Come to think of it, I haven't read one either. In the two years I've played and posted, I've only run across one player that was disrespectful.
The CoH forums really are "discussion" forums, where people discuss the game. We talk about builds, pvp, upcoming content, player events, suggestions etc.. It's very productive in my experience, and it's fun.
What I see tearing online communities apart are MMO service providers that treat customers like garbage and set things up to set subsections of the community at each other's throats. Like taking a game away from one group, changing it and then giving it to another group. That's extremely divisive.
Rather than getting rid of forums, I'd sooner get rid of crappy MMO development, deceitful marketting, and yes of course abusive or disrespectful behaviour. This really just calls for professionalism from MMO companies and proper moderation of discussion forums, not their abolition. My opinion anyways .
HAHAHAHA!!!! Is this one of those threads that blame the failure of a game on the shoulders of players and forums? News flash: MMOs fail because they're crap and / or there are issues with the developers. Bad games and bad dev teams will fail, and having forums or not will not prevent it. What not having official forums will do is it prevents a central meeting place for your PLAYERS, i.e. PAYING CUSTOMERS to congragate at. You know, like minds getting together to share a common theme or goal. Warhammer Online currently has no official forums. It's doing well, yes, but IMO, the players are splintered off with a piss-poor sense of community. Same thing I saw with Guild Wars. Both have no official forums. If your game is good, then have no worries about official forums. If your game is bad, then having forums or not will not matter. You won't be able to hide for much longer how craptastic your game is.
UMMMM...
NEVER said Official Forums cause games to "FAIL". Go back and read the post.
K-THX!
Comprehend what you typed in yourself, and realize that part of a game's success is tied to it's community.
If your player community is for most parts good, then you're set. An official forum for an MMO acts as a "home" of sorts for these players. A centralized place for current guides, feedback, etc.
A tight knit group of players that enjoy the game will do more good for you than any ad campaign. It's called "Word of Mouth."
Of course, Word of Mouth can destroy you. That is, if you have a craptastic title.
Personally, I have always held the belief that most MMOs out there that refuse to have official forums are trying to hide something negative, or trying to slow the spread of bad aspects of their product. Not all of them are awful games, but it's the norm.
A community of players doesn't rip itself apart when a game is good.
Your posting is very, very reminiscent of the forum traffic I've seen for Age of Failure (Conan). I've seen posts blaming the failure of the game square on the shoulders of the players, as if to hide the fact that the game is just buggy, blatantly incomplete, poorly patched, etc. It held true in official and unofficial AoC forums.
AGAIN, if you're tying an MMO's failure to what some people type on a message board... then that game was never that good, was it?
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
HAHAHAHA!!!! Is this one of those threads that blame the failure of a game on the shoulders of players and forums? News flash: MMOs fail because they're crap and / or there are issues with the developers. Bad games and bad dev teams will fail, and having forums or not will not prevent it. What not having official forums will do is it prevents a central meeting place for your PLAYERS, i.e. PAYING CUSTOMERS to congragate at. You know, like minds getting together to share a common theme or goal. Warhammer Online currently has no official forums. It's doing well, yes, but IMO, the players are splintered off with a piss-poor sense of community. Same thing I saw with Guild Wars. Both have no official forums. If your game is good, then have no worries about official forums. If your game is bad, then having forums or not will not matter. You won't be able to hide for much longer how craptastic your game is.
UMMMM...
NEVER said Official Forums cause games to "FAIL". Go back and read the post.
K-THX!
Comprehend what you typed in yourself, and realize that part of a game's success is tied to it's community.
If your player community is for most parts good, then you're set. An official forum for an MMO acts as a "home" of sorts for these players. A centralized place for current guides, feedback, etc.
A tight knit group of players that enjoy the game will do more good for you than any ad campaign. It's called "Word of Mouth."
Of course, Word of Mouth can destroy you. That is, if you have a craptastic title.
Personally, I have always held the belief that most MMOs out there that refuse to have official forums are trying to hide something negative, or trying to slow the spread of bad aspects of their product. Not all of them are awful games, but it's the norm.
A community of players doesn't rip itself apart when a game is good.
Your posting is very, very reminiscent of the forum traffic I've seen for Age of Failure (Conan). I've seen posts blaming the failure of the game square on the shoulders of the players, as if to hide the fact that the game is just buggy, blatantly incomplete, poorly patched, etc. It held true in official and unofficial AoC forums.
AGAIN, if you're tying an MMO's failure to what some people type on a message board... then that game was never that good, was it?
You are wrong and you are putting words into my post...DO NOT attempt to read more into MY thread that is there. LET ME BE CLEAR!...This is what my thread IS saying.
*Official Forums Breed Hate and Discontent.
*Official Forums are Abused by those who have no interest in making the Community better.
*Official Forums are NOT needed...You can go to any of a Dozen or more sites with Forums.
*Official Forums do nothing more than funnel legitimate players into an Ambush in which Trolls and Fan Bois pick them apart like Vultures on roadkill.
This is ALL I am saying!...I know because this is MY THREAD!!!
You are wrong and you are putting words into my post...DO NOT attempt to read more into MY thread that is there. LET ME BE CLEAR!...This is what my thread IS saying. *Official Forums Breed Hate and Discontent. *Official Forums are Abused by those who have no interest in making the Community better. *Official Forums are NOT needed...You can go to any of a Dozen or more sites with Forums. *Official Forums do nothing more than funnel legitimate players into an Ambush in which Trolls and Fan Bois pick them apart like Vultures on roadkill. This is ALL I am saying!...I know because this is MY THREAD!!!
Just because YOU don't want official forums, DOES NOT mean the majority of us agree.
If you don't like Official Forums there is NOTHING stopping you from not signing up to them or logging in!
If you ask me this here ANTI OFFICIAL FORUM TROLL is a MMORPG.COM FANBOI CONSPIRATOR
P.S. YES this is YOUR THREAD, but WE can also post here and DISAGREE.
p.s.s SPEAKING IN BOLD CAPS IS SOO MUCH FUNFUN!1!1!1
You are wrong and you are putting words into my post...DO NOT attempt to read more into MY thread that is there. LET ME BE CLEAR!...This is what my thread IS saying. *Official Forums Breed Hate and Discontent. *Official Forums are Abused by those who have no interest in making the Community better. *Official Forums are NOT needed...You can go to any of a Dozen or more sites with Forums. *Official Forums do nothing more than funnel legitimate players into an Ambush in which Trolls and Fan Bois pick them apart like Vultures on roadkill. This is ALL I am saying!...I know because this is MY THREAD!!!
Just because YOU don't want official forums, DOES NOT mean the majority of us agree.
If you don't like Official Forums there is NOTHING stopping you from not signing up to them or logging in!
If you ask me this here ANTI OFFICIAL FORUM TROLL is a MMORPG.COM FANBOI CONSPIRATOR
P.S. YES this is YOUR THREAD, but WE can also post here and DISAGREE.
p.s.s SPEAKING IN BOLD CAPS IS SOO MUCH FUNFUN!1!1!1
Oh and if you disagree: YOU ARE WRONG!
crap I forgot funky colors (
I don't care if you disagree with me.
However, don't tell me what my Thread is trying to say. I know what I'm saying. Do not make posts on my thread telling me what I'm trying to say. As for if I am wrong or not...I don't care! This is my opinion. I will respect your veiws and you will respect mine.
You are wrong and you are putting words into my post...DO NOT attempt to read more into MY thread that is there. LET ME BE CLEAR!...This is what my thread IS saying. *Official Forums Breed Hate and Discontent. *Official Forums are Abused by those who have no interest in making the Community better. *Official Forums are NOT needed...You can go to any of a Dozen or more sites with Forums. *Official Forums do nothing more than funnel legitimate players into an Ambush in which Trolls and Fan Bois pick them apart like Vultures on roadkill. This is ALL I am saying!...I know because this is MY THREAD!!!
Just because YOU don't want official forums, DOES NOT mean the majority of us agree.
If you don't like Official Forums there is NOTHING stopping you from not signing up to them or logging in!
If you ask me this here ANTI OFFICIAL FORUM TROLL is a MMORPG.COM FANBOI CONSPIRATOR
P.S. YES this is YOUR THREAD, but WE can also post here and DISAGREE.
p.s.s SPEAKING IN BOLD CAPS IS SOO MUCH FUNFUN!1!1!1
Oh and if you disagree: YOU ARE WRONG!
crap I forgot funky colors (
I don't care if you disagree with me.
However, don't tell me what my Thread is trying to say. I know what I'm saying. Do not make posts on my thread telling me what I'm trying to say. As for if I am wrong or not...I don't care! This is my opinion. I will respect your veiws and you will respect mine.
In the end it is YOUR choice of whether or not you decide to be part of a game's "official" forum community, if you are so against "official" forums you shouldn't join them, and thereby you wouldn't be affected by them. If you feel that you are being abused in the forums, contact a moderator, if you are unable to deal with heated debates (which is more likely), Stop joining forums.
And most sensibile people will disagree with your idea that "official forums breed hate and discontent", because it is absolutely untrue. Bad games, poor commmunication (from devs), lies and crappy service breed hate and discontent, official forums are just a place for the game community to find out information about the games they play.
If the forums are full of hateful, discontent people, then it is due to the game being a piece of crap, those people don't just get angry on a whim, it is because they feel wronged by the creators of the game.
P.S. I hope you can still understand me without me having to use all caps and huge fonts, but ask and I will try to accomodate you
I am not sure a official forum can kill a game I do remeber some I guess you would call flame wars on the old fourms. I spent most my time in the creature handler fourms and I remeber to this day people comeing in talking about tameing a rare, Sure there would be I guess fights but that is life everyone will never see everything in the same way. I rember someone calling the gorath fourms the slums of all the fourms(to be honest I am sure you could say the thing for all of them at one point or another). Even in that one I never thought it was that bad useally was the same group of people that played togther in game.
When it comes down to it even in these fourms one can learn people's posting habits and in general what view they may be comeing from. I guess MMO fourms may be completly different from offline but theu seem to keep the same rules in the mass effect and jade empire fourms. They tell you what they do not want to see even seen them warn people before they took action. AOC has fourms and Tubla Rusa does not from the last time I looked and people call both failures not sure it matters one way or another. I just know I miss being able to go to the orginal fourms in SWG and reading tips and there was some good stories of people finding and taming all kind of things not just rares.
To be honest I am not all the excited about the new game after all I have already been told once I was to old and lucas and soe no longer wanted my money. I do hope it turns out well and wish everyone that does play it that it is atleast close to what they hope for. If used as a gather place for players I think it could help but I am just one raving wookiee wannabe I do not know anything in the end
And most sensibile people will disagree with your idea that "official forums breed hate and discontent", because it is absolutely untrue. Bad games, poor commmunication (from devs), lies and crappy service breed hate and discontent, official forums are just a place for the game community to find out information about the games they play. If the forums are full of hateful, discontent people, then it is due to the game being a piece of crap, those people don't just get angry on a whim, it is because they feel wronged by the creators of the game.
Official Forums are a waste or Resources. I would rather see the developers take that money and add something cool to the game. Something that Really builds Community.
1) player run cities with player housing and shops
2) guild ships, bases, and fortresses
3) social hubs such as player owned clubs, bars, and arenas
Let gamesites like MMORPG.COM take care of the forums. Put that money to better use.
Official Forums are a waste or Resources. I would rather see the developers take that money and add something cool to the game. Something that Really builds Community. 1) player run cities with player housing and shops 2) guild ships, bases, and fortresses 3) social hubs such as player owned clubs, bars, and arenas
Let gamesites like MMORPG.COM take care of the forums. Put that money to better use.
I kinda agree with this. It makes more sense to put that time and money into something that counts. Besides, DEVs need to focus on making the game better. They need to be in game seeing how it all goes down when it's really happening. DEVs don't need some troller telling them bad info just to get a rise out of the fanbois.
Official Forums are a waste or Resources. I would rather see the developers take that money and add something cool to the game. Something that Really builds Community. 1) player run cities with player housing and shops 2) guild ships, bases, and fortresses 3) social hubs such as player owned clubs, bars, and arenas
Let gamesites like MMORPG.COM take care of the forums. Put that money to better use.
I kinda agree with this. It makes more sense to put that time and money into something that counts. Besides, DEVs need to focus on making the game better. They need to be in game seeing how it all goes down when it's really happening. DEVs don't need some troller telling them bad info just to get a rise out of the fanbois.
I will be very surprised if they don't have official forums. While it does seem to work well for WAR and DAoC, I think the community will demand them. I do agree on a few points. Yes, they do cause problems when not properly MODed (flame wars) and Yes, the time, manpower, and cash could be better spent on ingame items of interest. However, I'm afraid you are stuck with them.
Comments
1) Whenever I hear about a game without official forums, I immediately assume that game is crap. So do most people I know. Generally, I have found that I am right.
2) My experience has always been that games without forums have a difficult time establishing any sort of community. I've never seen a case where the forums are responsible for the meltdown of community... this is always the fault of the game/dev team.
3) Official forums are an incredibly powerful tool for a game publisher. Official forums allow them to control the "message". They allow the game publisher to exert at least some control over the community. Vanguard tried to do this using only unofficial forums... and it failed miserably.
From my experience, most forums are messes. It often breaks down into the mods and the mods friends talking to each other.
But what really pisses me off about most official forums for games is that they claim to want advice - but then take down any posts that they personally don't like. What happens is that eventually a couple of guys seem to be the only ones getting listened too (and said guys ideas often suck.)
UMMMM...
NEVER said Official Forums cause games to "FAIL". Go back and read the post.
K-THX!
Well, actually what you said is that forums tear the online game community apart. Are you suggeting now that you can have a succesful game with a torn apart community? That seems like a contradiction to me.
Even if we stick with the apparent suggestion that a game can succeed with a fragmented community, I've seen very healthy forum communities that add to the game, when the game is made well and players and devs work together with an attitude of mutual respect.
What you seem to be suggesting is that allowing communication ruins online communities. That kind of seems like saying that turning off the news will make the world a better place. I kind of wish that was true, but I don't think it is.
Lol, where have I seen that before
I agree from what I have read from reliable sources is that they are making a Kotor 3,but its not a mmo,its another console rpg. Now for the new Star Wars MMo,I heard it is The Clone Wars Online and makes more sense to me for them to go this route.
that would be awesome, I love the kotor series and would hate for the series to be ruined by a mmo.
similar to what blizzard did with my beloved WC rts franchise.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
i think they should open teh forums late, lke wait 3-4 months when people know whether the game is for them or not, and then open forums. The crap that gets said on forums in the beginning is incredible.
My view on Official Forums are that they are an absolute MUST as they:
1) Helps communication between Devs and Players - i.e. any changes that need to be made or important information exchanges.
2) Helps build a decent community spirit - early SWG for example - just need decent mods who will put an end to trolling sharpish - yet understand what free speach is :P (hard to accomplish but doable)
3) Look at WARs realease and don't tell me there was a butt load of confusion as no one really knew where to get information from - or players were getting pissy as info was posted on a number of diff forums at different points in time and there was no real synergy.
4) "newly realeased mmos destroyed by the forums" - absolute w*nk! Recent games have been nothing but rubbish - WAR was meant to be innovative, new, fun - sadly was none of these things was actually buggy as hell, and lacked a decent 'hook'
AoC promised a bucket load of features i.e. sieges - this was never implemented, infact only just has but there is hardly anyone around to take part! lol the drama
Vanguard - what more can I say - SOE anyone?
I think this game needs forums for it to grow and flourish, that being said yes forums will accelerate its destruction if its a load of crap...probably not a bad thing as I would rather save my 10 quid a month if thats the case - just gotta hope for a decent Star Wars game ^^
- Syn
any company that spends millions making a game and then won't pay for a forum will not get my money. centralized forums are important for many reasons. mostly because customers should feel the company cares enough to have their own forums so they can have some interaction with the dev team. even when it's childish bickering, trolling, and complaints. besides it's better to have the troublemakers on one forum instead of all over the internets.
If I remember rightly, Vanguard didn't have an official forum at the start. Sigil spouted crap how it helps affiliates make communities. And it was HELL trying to get coherent details directly from the devs on anything. I suspect that the many WAR forums are too. So when the official Vanguard forums went live, people started to actually SEE the devs responding (that is, when they did) rather than hearing it "third hand".
AOC's forums are heaven compared to the likes of WoW. However AOC's forums are far from perfect. The EU forums are actually quite respectful because they are moderated properly (some would say almost too much). But it's had the desired effect.
Official forums keep all the essential information from the devs in one place. People can discuss things as a much larger community rather than in "splinter" forum groups, locked away in the darkest recesses of the net.
Perpectually generating hate and anger, growing and growing.......until it reaches near boiling point......Its members lashing out at people who come near or who try to give a different point of view....
Oh....
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
I can see the whiney posts now. "Bioware equals Maleware". Or "omg , omg, omg! I can't roleplay under this amount of preasure in the middle of a PvP zone".
UMMMM...
NEVER said Official Forums cause games to "FAIL". Go back and read the post.
K-THX!
Well, actually what you said is that forums tear the online game community apart. Are you suggeting now that you can have a succesful game with a torn apart community? That seems like a contradiction to me.
Even if we stick with the apparent suggestion that a game can succeed with a fragmented community, I've seen very healthy forum communities that add to the game, when the game is made well and players and devs work together with an attitude of mutual respect.
What you seem to be suggesting is that allowing communication ruins online communities. That kind of seems like saying that turning off the news will make the world a better place. I kind of wish that was true, but I don't think it is.
NO!
What I am saying is that between the Fanboi and Troll agenda, the Community suffers. The bottom line is that people that DO NOT have the best interest of the game at Heart, break into the Official Forums and engage in behaviors that gives the game a bad name. Giving these people Offiicial Forums, gives them access to a stage they simply don't deserve. These people abuse the system to amuse themselves. They do it not to make the game better, but because they are Bored at the moment.
Official Forums are nothing more than Battlegrounds for Trolls and Fanbois...These days it does more harm than good.
Just make it so you cant enter the forums unless you are a paying customer. I totaly agree with having official forums for your game it just helps the community help each other. New people can get questions answered easier about classes, quests, zones, and mobs, Devs dont have to go searching for players opinions, or ideas about the game, or maybe ideas that players might have to help improve the game.
All MMO's should have official forums
The only official forums I have ever been a part of were Age of Conan's, and that was because since I was in the beta I wanted to see the technical issues that were already known so I didn't waste the devs time with bug reports they already had a thousand complaints about. At first I didn't pay any attention to the troll threads, but after a while I began to agree with what they were saying about the game.
Now did I end up disliking the game because the forum made me focus on the bad to the point where I lost track of the good? It certainly played a part in it.
I don't think the devs can get anything really constructive out of a mess like that, since they would have to dig thier way through a pile of incoherent ranting to get to anything even slightly useful. Nerf this, change that, this sucks, you suck, your mom sucks...it's just worthless.
They just need to play the game themselves and make thier decisions based on thier own expiriences. It's impossible to satisfy everyone, so why bother to listen to them all argue about it?
When playing SWG I rarely went outside of the Scylla Galaxy Trade Forum. Sometimes I would go to our galaxies general forum to see if any player events were coming up or for pvp events. The class and SWG general forums I stayed well away from due to the flame wars that spawned there. Of all the games I have played, I made it a rule to stay out of class forums altogether and limited trips to the general forums. I have to acknowledge the OP having a point about some of the game forums being abused, but other parts of those forums are helpful to the players and well worth having. Cannot have one forum without having the rest and I would rather have them than to not have them.
UMMMM...
NEVER said Official Forums cause games to "FAIL". Go back and read the post.
K-THX!
Well, actually what you said is that forums tear the online game community apart. Are you suggeting now that you can have a succesful game with a torn apart community? That seems like a contradiction to me.
Even if we stick with the apparent suggestion that a game can succeed with a fragmented community, I've seen very healthy forum communities that add to the game, when the game is made well and players and devs work together with an attitude of mutual respect.
What you seem to be suggesting is that allowing communication ruins online communities. That kind of seems like saying that turning off the news will make the world a better place. I kind of wish that was true, but I don't think it is.
NO!
What I am saying is that between the Fanboi and Troll agenda, the Community suffers. The bottom line is that people that DO NOT have the best interest of the game at Heart, break into the Official Forums and engage in behaviors that gives the game a bad name. Giving these people Offiicial Forums, gives them access to a stage they simply don't deserve. These people abuse the system to amuse themselves. They do it not to make the game better, but because they are Bored at the moment.
Official Forums are nothing more than Battlegrounds for Trolls and Fanbois...These days it does more harm than good.
I'm not sure what you're saying "NO!" to exactly. I'm unclear on whether or not you think forums cause games to fail.
That aside, I think I understand this much: "troll" versus "fanboi" wars (your words not mine) create unnecessary problems for MMO communitites. Is that what you're saying? If so, then I agree that deceptive viral marketting is a pain in the ass, and so is disrespectful or abusive behaviour.
This still doesn't suggest to me that forums are a bad idea though. Again, look at CoH/CoV. I've been posting there for 2 years, and haven't been involved in even one flame war. Come to think of it, I haven't read one either. In the two years I've played and posted, I've only run across one player that was disrespectful.
The CoH forums really are "discussion" forums, where people discuss the game. We talk about builds, pvp, upcoming content, player events, suggestions etc.. It's very productive in my experience, and it's fun.
What I see tearing online communities apart are MMO service providers that treat customers like garbage and set things up to set subsections of the community at each other's throats. Like taking a game away from one group, changing it and then giving it to another group. That's extremely divisive.
Rather than getting rid of forums, I'd sooner get rid of crappy MMO development, deceitful marketting, and yes of course abusive or disrespectful behaviour. This really just calls for professionalism from MMO companies and proper moderation of discussion forums, not their abolition. My opinion anyways
.
UMMMM...
NEVER said Official Forums cause games to "FAIL". Go back and read the post.
K-THX!
Comprehend what you typed in yourself, and realize that part of a game's success is tied to it's community.
If your player community is for most parts good, then you're set. An official forum for an MMO acts as a "home" of sorts for these players. A centralized place for current guides, feedback, etc.
A tight knit group of players that enjoy the game will do more good for you than any ad campaign. It's called "Word of Mouth."
Of course, Word of Mouth can destroy you. That is, if you have a craptastic title.
Personally, I have always held the belief that most MMOs out there that refuse to have official forums are trying to hide something negative, or trying to slow the spread of bad aspects of their product. Not all of them are awful games, but it's the norm.
A community of players doesn't rip itself apart when a game is good.
Your posting is very, very reminiscent of the forum traffic I've seen for Age of Failure (Conan). I've seen posts blaming the failure of the game square on the shoulders of the players, as if to hide the fact that the game is just buggy, blatantly incomplete, poorly patched, etc. It held true in official and unofficial AoC forums.
AGAIN, if you're tying an MMO's failure to what some people type on a message board... then that game was never that good, was it?
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
UMMMM...
NEVER said Official Forums cause games to "FAIL". Go back and read the post.
K-THX!
Comprehend what you typed in yourself, and realize that part of a game's success is tied to it's community.
If your player community is for most parts good, then you're set. An official forum for an MMO acts as a "home" of sorts for these players. A centralized place for current guides, feedback, etc.
A tight knit group of players that enjoy the game will do more good for you than any ad campaign. It's called "Word of Mouth."
Of course, Word of Mouth can destroy you. That is, if you have a craptastic title.
Personally, I have always held the belief that most MMOs out there that refuse to have official forums are trying to hide something negative, or trying to slow the spread of bad aspects of their product. Not all of them are awful games, but it's the norm.
A community of players doesn't rip itself apart when a game is good.
Your posting is very, very reminiscent of the forum traffic I've seen for Age of Failure (Conan). I've seen posts blaming the failure of the game square on the shoulders of the players, as if to hide the fact that the game is just buggy, blatantly incomplete, poorly patched, etc. It held true in official and unofficial AoC forums.
AGAIN, if you're tying an MMO's failure to what some people type on a message board... then that game was never that good, was it?
You are wrong and you are putting words into my post...DO NOT attempt to read more into MY thread that is there. LET ME BE CLEAR!...This is what my thread IS saying.
*Official Forums Breed Hate and Discontent.
*Official Forums are Abused by those who have no interest in making the Community better.
*Official Forums are NOT needed...You can go to any of a Dozen or more sites with Forums.
*Official Forums do nothing more than funnel legitimate players into an Ambush in which Trolls and Fan Bois pick them apart like Vultures on roadkill.
This is ALL I am saying!...I know because this is MY THREAD!!!
Just because YOU don't want official forums, DOES NOT mean the majority of us agree.
If you don't like Official Forums there is NOTHING stopping you from not signing up to them or logging in!
If you ask me this here ANTI OFFICIAL FORUM TROLL is a MMORPG.COM FANBOI CONSPIRATOR
P.S. YES this is YOUR THREAD, but WE can also post here and DISAGREE.
p.s.s SPEAKING IN BOLD CAPS IS SOO MUCH FUNFUN!1!1!1
Oh and if you disagree: YOU ARE WRONG!
crap I forgot funky colors
(
- Syn
Just because YOU don't want official forums, DOES NOT mean the majority of us agree.
If you don't like Official Forums there is NOTHING stopping you from not signing up to them or logging in!
If you ask me this here ANTI OFFICIAL FORUM TROLL is a MMORPG.COM FANBOI CONSPIRATOR
P.S. YES this is YOUR THREAD, but WE can also post here and DISAGREE.
p.s.s SPEAKING IN BOLD CAPS IS SOO MUCH FUNFUN!1!1!1
Oh and if you disagree: YOU ARE WRONG!
crap I forgot funky colors
(
I don't care if you disagree with me.
However, don't tell me what my Thread is trying to say. I know what I'm saying. Do not make posts on my thread telling me what I'm trying to say. As for if I am wrong or not...I don't care! This is my opinion. I will respect your veiws and you will respect mine.
Just because YOU don't want official forums, DOES NOT mean the majority of us agree.
If you don't like Official Forums there is NOTHING stopping you from not signing up to them or logging in!
If you ask me this here ANTI OFFICIAL FORUM TROLL is a MMORPG.COM FANBOI CONSPIRATOR
P.S. YES this is YOUR THREAD, but WE can also post here and DISAGREE.
p.s.s SPEAKING IN BOLD CAPS IS SOO MUCH FUNFUN!1!1!1
Oh and if you disagree: YOU ARE WRONG!
crap I forgot funky colors
(
I don't care if you disagree with me.
However, don't tell me what my Thread is trying to say. I know what I'm saying. Do not make posts on my thread telling me what I'm trying to say. As for if I am wrong or not...I don't care! This is my opinion. I will respect your veiws and you will respect mine.
In the end it is YOUR choice of whether or not you decide to be part of a game's "official" forum community, if you are so against "official" forums you shouldn't join them, and thereby you wouldn't be affected by them. If you feel that you are being abused in the forums, contact a moderator, if you are unable to deal with heated debates (which is more likely), Stop joining forums.
And most sensibile people will disagree with your idea that "official forums breed hate and discontent", because it is absolutely untrue. Bad games, poor commmunication (from devs), lies and crappy service breed hate and discontent, official forums are just a place for the game community to find out information about the games they play.
If the forums are full of hateful, discontent people, then it is due to the game being a piece of crap, those people don't just get angry on a whim, it is because they feel wronged by the creators of the game.
P.S. I hope you can still understand me without me having to use all caps and huge fonts, but ask and I will try to accomodate you
I am not sure a official forum can kill a game I do remeber some I guess you would call flame wars on the old fourms. I spent most my time in the creature handler fourms and I remeber to this day people comeing in talking about tameing a rare, Sure there would be I guess fights but that is life everyone will never see everything in the same way. I rember someone calling the gorath fourms the slums of all the fourms(to be honest I am sure you could say the thing for all of them at one point or another). Even in that one I never thought it was that bad useally was the same group of people that played togther in game.
When it comes down to it even in these fourms one can learn people's posting habits and in general what view they may be comeing from. I guess MMO fourms may be completly different from offline but theu seem to keep the same rules in the mass effect and jade empire fourms. They tell you what they do not want to see even seen them warn people before they took action. AOC has fourms and Tubla Rusa does not from the last time I looked and people call both failures not sure it matters one way or another. I just know I miss being able to go to the orginal fourms in SWG and reading tips and there was some good stories of people finding and taming all kind of things not just rares.
To be honest I am not all the excited about the new game after all I have already been told once I was to old and lucas and soe no longer wanted my money. I do hope it turns out well and wish everyone that does play it that it is atleast close to what they hope for. If used as a gather place for players I think it could help but I am just one raving wookiee wannabe I do not know anything in the end
/agreed
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
Official Forums are a waste or Resources. I would rather see the developers take that money and add something cool to the game. Something that Really builds Community.
1) player run cities with player housing and shops
2) guild ships, bases, and fortresses
3) social hubs such as player owned clubs, bars, and arenas
Let gamesites like MMORPG.COM take care of the forums. Put that money to better use.
I kinda agree with this. It makes more sense to put that time and money into something that counts. Besides, DEVs need to focus on making the game better. They need to be in game seeing how it all goes down when it's really happening. DEVs don't need some troller telling them bad info just to get a rise out of the fanbois.
I kinda agree with this. It makes more sense to put that time and money into something that counts. Besides, DEVs need to focus on making the game better. They need to be in game seeing how it all goes down when it's really happening. DEVs don't need some troller telling them bad info just to get a rise out of the fanbois.
I will be very surprised if they don't have official forums. While it does seem to work well for WAR and DAoC, I think the community will demand them. I do agree on a few points. Yes, they do cause problems when not properly MODed (flame wars) and Yes, the time, manpower, and cash could be better spent on ingame items of interest. However, I'm afraid you are stuck with them.