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Why do people say the PvE sucks in this game?
cukimunga
Member UncommonPosts: 2,258
Ive played many MMO's and Id say this game has just as good PvE as any game I've played. Just today I decided to start exploring and there is so much area that the quests don't even take you to. I found a bunch of caves and just went around hunting lower level champions and hero's. There are dungeon raids,Boss Lair's and the PQ's are fun when there are people to help out.
Comments
PQ's do get alot harder after you leave T1. every tier after gets less and less people.
I am sure someone will come here and say that they have no problem every finding people for PQ's
I have 2 Toons in tier4 on two different servers. One order one destruction. both servers are high/high i thought it was cuz i was in the CE headstart and out leveled everyone. Same results with 2nd char each tier it gets harder and harder to find people to PQ.
back on topic, people just compare the PvE to WoW and want that Epic dungeon feel for some reason. even tho its an RvR based game the PvE content is fairly good for what it is ( the standard tank & spank).
i think most folks like me didn't come for pve so when the scenarios took away open rvr (didn't come for instanced pvp either) i was forced to pve to do anything at all. i am glad you enjoy the pve but to me it was some of the most boring repetitive stuff to do (already killed 1000's of boars wolves etc etc in other games) hope they get thier act together and make this an more enjoyable game for different styles fo play so as to not lock it in as another niche market mmo
i think most folks like me didn't come for pve so when the scenarios took away open rvr (didn't come for instanced pvp either) i was forced to pve to do anything at all. i am glad you enjoy the pve but to me it was some of the most boring repetitive stuff to do (already killed 1000's of boars wolves etc etc in other games) hope they get thier act together and make this an more enjoyable game for different styles fo play so as to not lock it in as another niche market mmo
sucks you got forced to pve.. bad luck on server choice? i have the exact opposite, easy to find RvR groups but hard to find anyone to pq with.
I would LOVE to do Lairs, they sound cool. However I have never had a group outside of a a scenario even with the nifty open group thing.
-It's nothing new. Same reptitive quests, same predictable boring AI.
-The world is very deserted. PQ's are fun when there are people around, but when I played Destruction on a "full" server, there was often no one around, or not enough to finish them.
-Linear world. In addition to having zones, the world is obviously designed for you to stay on the path. Yeah you can go explore a cave, if you follow the path that takes you to one. AoC was horrible about this, WAR is not as bad, but generally you're not going to try to climb the hill and see what's on the other side because you know you're just going to slide back down it before you get to the top, and you'll probably spend 20 minutes tracking the wall to find where the mountains part and there's a huge archway with a welcome -sign hanging from it.
-Another reason the world is not so fun to explore is the art style. I feel like I'm exploring WoW zones, it's all the same over-the-top fantasy style that you find in so many other MMOs.
-grouping and raids? maybe at end level, but I never played to that point. I played to 20 and never had a reason to communicate with another player in PvE = no strategy involved, and only boring solo grinding.
should look into joining a decent sized guilds.. Tons of guilds iam sure are looking for members sicne they gain guild XP from the active members. Might be the best move if you havn't found one.
its just to easy,
iv only done t1 and t2 pq and they have been all way to easy.
all you need is a ok healer and then its pretty mush just spam tell they are dead
March on! - Lets Invade Pekopon
hmhm obviously the OP never played a PVE game. Lets take the standard example World of Warcraft. While many quests are plain stupid "kill 10 boars", I daresay many other are funny. Whats more, the quests often have meaningful rewards and might even be challenging.
But the main cause why PvE in Warhammer is boring, is that you do not have to react or use certain skills on any PvE Mob. If you are a Sigmar Priest or a Disciple of Khaine you can fight Champions at your level and probably some levels above. Does that require skill? No. You just have a class that happens to be able to do that stunt but you don't need to think about it.
For all other classes champions at the same level are probably deadly. That was it about challenge. It is not the question if you are skilled enough to beat that mob, it is the question if your character is powerful enough in skills and equipment to beat that mob. There is no playerskill whatsoever needed because you do not need to use tactics like stunning in the right moment, healing yourself in the right moment or disrupting spells.
In PvE games like WoW most Mobs (even plain standard mobs out in the wild) have special attacks that are designed in a way so that they hurt you distinctly more if you do not counter them as if you countered them. If a Mob in WoW can heal itself and you do not disrupt his healing spell, the fight will easily be double or triple as long.
Its not that the PvE in WoW is extraordinarily challenging, but you need to think while you club on the mobs. In Warhammer you win every fight by simply pressing your main attack. You might use more than one skill but you do not need to - it doesnt make a difference.
War is a PvP game and thats where you need your brain. In PvE you fight like the most basic bot that there is. That's why its boring and thats why it should be removed.
Well, because it is really sub par. Yhe poster above me nailed the fundamentals, but i just want to push a bit on some aspect. It is not really a problem that normal "mobs" are easy or straight forward. The normal mobs are there to be grinded and mass killed. THe problem starts in the normally called "instances",
Again we have to set up a comparison with WOW . NOt because WOW is perfect but pve wise it does the job. lets take a raid boss, or even a heroic instance or even a non heroic instance. in the end is all a tank and spank fight, but a large majority of them have their own "twists". Sometimes you have to position yourself in X or Y spot so the AOE/CURSE/RANGED ATTACK/MELEE ATTACK/WHATEVER (see a lot of variables there) doesnt hit your party. Other time yu need to separate the boss from the possible adds. IN some circunstances you need a warlock/priest/mage or other type of unsual tank to tank certain thing, there are even those guys when you need some special equipment (Resistances) or that must be tanked moving and not on a static way... and i could probably write a treaty about it, but guess it is enough.
In WAR tho I did a lot of "instances" and in all honesty , up to now at least, it is a tank and spank fight where the most complex thing normall is to make sure the boss has his back to the party, And then dump all the heal on the tank. There are some situation like in bastion stairs where there is some aoe , so distance is a must but it has all been pretty simple.
hardest dungeon I made was bilerot in the inevitable city, and it is actually pretty hard because the mobs hit for large amount of damage (4k , crits for 7k sometimes almost 8) , but from what I read apparently we need some sort of "having the blood lord set that gives a buff that reduces mobs dmg", and even without any of us having that set, we were able to down the first boss (with many wipes to get there) on the first try simply because , surprise, it is a tank and spank fight were the only strategy needed is to have a second tank aoe the adds.
Now the good point is WAR is not supposed to be a pve game, so putting the game down because the pve on it sucks is quite stupid, unless you're blind and didn't do any research on game.
WAR is pvp centric and it is quite obvious that the devs efforts were concentrated in providing an above average pvp experience. PVE is for sure not a priority in any list of concerns about WAR, and should never be over the next year or so. Eventually they will have everything sorted out and might concentrate in pve a bit, but still this game is not meant to be a pve contender ... and any attempt to drive in that direction will just create a lot of problems of balance in pvp , the same way that the attempts of driving wow to a more pvp path created a lot of problems in pve.
Apparently wow has them sorted out to a point, but it took them some years. It would take some time for mythic to do the same and quite honestly I come to warhammer because of pvp not pve.
Well in assuming that I have never played a PvE game, well you are so wrong like I said Ive played many MMO's. I just got done playing WoW before War and I don't see much of a difference in PvE between the two games. Yes war has the Kill X creatures go gather these but it also has other types of quests as well. I had this quest where I had a drinking contest with a gaurd. Fighting mobs in any other game didn't seem easier or harder than War either. Maybe I just don't pay attention or something cuz Im not seeing a difference.
In WoW you could kill any mob by stunlocking it, hell id kill mobs that were 4 levels higher than me no problem. I would just spam the same attacks over and over again and it would work. No thinking involved there just, use this ablility stunned use this for dmg then stunn again then dmg and do it all over again.
There are mobs in war that have special attacks Trolls have knockdown and Wolves can silence you.You can get disarmed, then there is the Keep Lords that Ive fought that has this killer AoE DoT spell that you have to try and counter or people will die. You didn't have to counter things in WoW either you could still kill them, but it might make it easier to kill them or it will save you from dying.
I play a Shadow Warrior and I just don't use one ability to kill things off. I pretty much use every ability in scout stance and my root ability. OK about the DoK I do see problems with that, and this game isn't balanced for 1v1 so the healers and Healer hybrids can kill PvE stuff a lot easier than other classes. I was trying to kill 19 champs as a 21 SW and got them down to 1/4 of there health.
So id same for this being a PvP game it has damn good PvE but I guess thats my opinion.
you were playing a really easy classe on wow i guess if you could stunlock.
try to stunlock anything with a warrior, or paladin for example (just using the other melee classes), if i recall well fighting higher level mobs with a warrior in wow would mean normally death (mine).and they made wow easier with the expansion. before tbc anything 3 or 4 levels highter was incredibly hard to kill with melee (hunter didnt had that problem) due to "glancing blows ".
yet in a funny way, things can be inverted. in WAR as a chosen i basicly just use one attack, ravage, to kill mobs.
yet, grind mobs are grind mobs. they go down easy because they are supposed to go down easy. Don't even consider grinding mobs as pve, and dont really think there are that many differences in that aspect in warhammer or wow.
In instances, well, because i did a lot of them , and raided a lot also from MC to naxx and then after tbc (much easier) in wow, I consider "pve" in warhammer quite worst when compared to wow. Every instance boss in war is normally quite predictable. But again this game is not supposed to set any new frontier in pve.
You obviously haven't done alot of PQ's or even PQ's that are off the beaten path.
In Tier 1 Chaos there's an off the path PQ in chapter 2 that without 12 to 24 people is near impossible to complete stage 2. It seems simply enough run around set buildings on fire within so much time...the hard part comes in when you realize 2 or 3 roving bands of champion 'fire brigades' are moving around behind you putting out the fire and attacking you in the process thus slowing you down since every time they put a house fire out before the house is crispy burnt you lose one of the counts towards stage 2. My friend and I found this out the hard way going "oh this is easy then we realize that instead of 6 for the houses we lit on fire we currently on had 4 listed" thanks to the brigade that proceeded to wipe us out.
In Tier 2 Greenskins there's a PQ in chapter 9 Barak Varr that is without a full warband maybe even 2 warbands if you do it with only people 18 to 20 that is literally impossible to complete the final stage. The final mob is not a champ...not a hero...but a lord. He's nasty and even if your level 24 you can go down in 3 to 4 hits without a team of healers or other tanks to share aggro with. It took a full warband of 24 people half of them were lvl 18 to 21 and a few were 24 - 26 in order to beat this guy. Long Drong the Slayer pirate is a vicious son of a bitch.
Anyone not finding challenge in PQ's by chp 8 have not attempted to do PQ's in other areas OR off the beaten path they obviously skip the PvE quest line and assume that what they saw along the roads is it. Shame really that exploration is dead within a community that complains so much about needing exploration. A game has it and everyone sits and spins.
You obviously haven't done alot of PQ's or even PQ's that are off the beaten path.
In Tier 1 Chaos there's an off the path PQ in chapter 2 that without 12 to 24 people is near impossible to complete stage 2. It seems simply enough run around set buildings on fire within so much time...the hard part comes in when you realize 2 or 3 roving bands of champion 'fire brigades' are moving around behind you putting out the fire and attacking you in the process thus slowing you down since every time they put a house fire out before the house is crispy burnt you lose one of the counts towards stage 2. My friend and I found this out the hard way going "oh this is easy then we realize that instead of 6 for the houses we lit on fire we currently on had 4 listed" thanks to the brigade that proceeded to wipe us out.
In Tier 2 Greenskins there's a PQ in chapter 9 Barak Varr that is without a full warband maybe even 2 warbands if you do it with only people 18 to 20 that is literally impossible to complete the final stage. The final mob is not a champ...not a hero...but a lord. He's nasty and even if your level 24 you can go down in 3 to 4 hits without a team of healers or other tanks to share aggro with. It took a full warband of 24 people half of them were lvl 18 to 21 and a few were 24 - 26 in order to beat this guy. Long Drong the Slayer pirate is a vicious son of a bitch.
Anyone not finding challenge in PQ's by chp 8 have not attempted to do PQ's in other areas OR off the beaten path they obviously skip the PvE quest line and assume that what they saw along the roads is it. Shame really that exploration is dead within a community that complains so much about needing exploration. A game has it and everyone sits and spins.
how do you get to off the road pq. iv just been doing thim ans i find them.
the normal easy ones. iv never ran into any....order by the way.
March on! - Lets Invade Pekopon
If your not doing the PvE quest line you have to go off into every cave, valley, pennisula, cove etc they're there. Harder PQ's show up in Red Lettering and they're spread out over the realms if you dont find any in say the human realm try one of the other realms. Each realm is bizarrely different in how the Quests etc are designed adn what they drop or give out.
Can't help you much on the order side btw I've not played too indepth with them yet.
I play a archmage and I did nothing but scenarios to lvl 22, after doing tor anroc a couple times, then the other T3 scenarios, I decided it was time for me to do some PvE. The quests were ok imo, about the same you will find in any mmo.
Some of the things I didn't like about the PvE were, as a archmage, some of the smaller cave,dungeon quests, where you would have to fight your way into a small cave etc. The mobs would spawn faster then I could kill them. Literally, I would kill a mob, within seconds of hitting the next mob, the last mob I killed would spawn. The only way I found a counter for this was to not loot corpses, but ehh thats no fun.
Also, I would be fighting at a normal camp, every mob there has been dropping regular loot, money,trash etc. And a named champion would spawn. Taking me nearly twice as long to kill as the regular mobs, and alot of times they dont even drop money (even though it was a humaniod).
But all-in-all, I bought war for rvr and I have been really impressed with the rvr.
Well, my english is not that good, so i´ll just list some aspects to prove why PVE in this game sucks:
- mobs AI - terrible...I don´t even need to say a word about it.
- lack of immersion: infinite ammo, never have to fix your armor, when u die, u just respawn and have a healer by your side to remove all your debuffs (lol).. so, u dont even need to care about dying!!! No weather system, etc...
-professions? Crap...
- Also the game needs more dungeons and places where u go with your friends to kill bosses, get gear and have fun!
- Variety lacking: everyone looks the same!
- Chat is terrible.. no community at all
So, its easy PVE...no fun at all.
Its just a PVP game.
You have "proved" absoulty nothing.
When I said i had "time", i meant virtual time, i got no RL "time" for you.
The Named Champions that dont' drop anything are related to Tome Unlocks..you have to have opened the entry in your Tome In order to Get Credit for the kill. Not quite sure about regular champs they're probably related to some quest. I've made most of my 50+ gold by 20 from quest rewards that were cash, trash drops that i vendorized, and all the scavaging & green drops i sell on the AH. I tend to sell them fairly cheap for the Salvagers.
There is so much lunacy in this thread.
Anyone who has said that WAR's PvE is boring by comparing it to WoW is clearly a WoW-fan. First of all, WoW does not take any skill. You can't even make the argument that it has dynamic fighting and you have to be a good player to do the best. MOST of WoW's quests were thrown in for the sake of having a quest (kill 60 boars, gather 40 vulture beaks, etc.). Most of WAR's quests actually make sense in context. I've found quests in WAR to be more enjoyable because, although many employ the grinding technique, there is less grinding than WoW.
Now, on to raiding: Raiding is WoW's whole purpose. Raiding is it's "endgame". If you aren't going to raid, you are basically saying you don't want to use the main feature. Raiding in WoW is cool the first couple of times you do it because it does seem like you need some strategy. This is clearly not the case. I gaurantee that most raiders look up how to do a fight on some website, then tell everyone in the guild to look at the strategy, then execute. My experience in raiding was always that it was really easy. It was mind-numbingly easy in fact. You are kidding yourself if you try to say that it's not. So what good does raiding serve? Well, the cool bosses that have tier 2 dumb-AI instead of the normal tier 1 dumb-AI. I've found that PQs in WAR have that same mystique. Theres usually a boss at the end, except you won't have to use "uber strategies" and position yourself in different spots -- you just fight. I haven't gotten to lairs and such yet, but they are probably far better than WoW raids simply because you won't have to do them over and over for months. Grinding sucks, and you should not defend it. There is no point to raiding in WoW. There is no point to getting better gear in WoW. You have all these purples, but what will you do with them? Wait until they become obsolete next patch/expansion. If you truly like raiding for the experience of it, it is advisable to do each raid only a couple of times (which isn't really possible -- you HAVE to grind). WAR has many PQs with a similar experience (not as epic, but some of them are pretty good).
Unlike WoW, WAR actually rewards you for exploring. There's all sorts of unlocks (items, titles, tactics, etc.) that can be gained by simply running through the world and exploring.
The PvP in WoW really sucks too. It's all about gear and classes. There is NO skill involved. Arenas take communication, but really there is no skill. WAR is similar, except it isn't dependent on classes and gear (they help, but aren't the main reason). I've found there to be far more strategy/skill in WAR PvP than WoW PvP.
Ok, that's a lot on WAR/WoW. I would wager that anyone who posted here using WoW as an example played WoW as their first MMO. PvE in EVERY game except for WoW is actually similar to WAR except WAR uses the WoW paradigm of questing. Questing isn't so bad if done right, but there are people who have that nostalgia of older days in MMOs. There was nothing better in DAoC than coming across some awesome grind spot that felt like you were the first one to discover it
In fact, the main gripe people have with WAR is that it is too much like WoW. It certainly did borrow a lot from WoW, but unlike most post-WoW MMOs, I feel that they took what was good in WoW and expanded upon it instead of taking everything that was bad and amplifying it.
WAR is a far from perfect game, but it certainly has better MMO-fundamentals than WoW does. If you really think WAR PvE is horrible compared to WoW, you've probably only played WoW before and don't want to play a PvP game in the first place. WAR has an smaller time-to-good-gear ratio, but that's because you actually use the gear that you get for some purpose other than to say, "Look at me! I'm the hundred thousandth person to get this helmet! I'm so special and awesome!"
______________________
Give a man some fun and you entertain him for a day. Teach a man to make fun and you entertain him for a lifetime.
wow anyone who even thinks about startin up another WoW vs. War thread should read your post first.
I don't like War PvE at all. I find it boring too. I just want to RvR all the time and can't because of queue of scenarios and lack of people in rvr areas. I found the PvE in daoc more fun than WAR and a lot of people didn't like daoc pve.
Oh, and for a RvR game, the PvE is much too slow in WAR, especially compared to what it was in beta. The only fun I can find is if I pull like 10-15 mobs on my dok or marauder and see if I can survive.
Agree with the OP, the PvE in WAR is better than I expected. The Public Quest system is great, and the regular quests are decent if not spectacular. At least there aren't too many random drop quests like WoW has, that require killing endless amounts of mobs, and that makes me want to throw my mouse across the room. WoW does have pretty good instances (although the endless trash pulls get repetative), but the questing in WoW is extremely poor, probably the weakest questing game out there. And since WoW almost *never* offers any new content except end-game content, leveling from 1-70 (and soon to 80) is something I just can't get myself to do ever again. And that's the biggest problem I have with WoW, the only enjoyable aspect *is* the end-game. In WAR however, I find even the first tier to be very fun. That's a pretty good achievement, IMO.
i used wow has an example even tho i'm 34 years and my first "MMO" was actually a mud.
I still think war pve is sub par. Yes probably most people do find their strategies on some website, but since I was in a guild that actually tried to get well not first but like 4th or fifth kills, we actually did the stuff before things get on websites. SO yes, it become a bit of a challenge in that setting. in fact,I think we all have to admit that if we compare pve in wow and everquest (the original) wow comes clearly on top, unless any one thinks it is complex to run in circles with a boss on your back ( I was a tank in everquest) while every one else spamm heal and dps.
I'll admit first hand that I am a power/meta player. As such i'm pretty close to wow, not in terms of playing but in al that is before that, what many call theorycrafting about dps cicles, dmg formulas etc.
Raided everything that could be raided in wow, rank 14 when it was mad to do it, have +300 000 honor kiils, always got my gladiator title etc. Yet, dont think wow is the paradigm of mmorpgs but like that guy on the escape artist said, it is as good as a broad end mmorpg can be ( by broad end I mean broad appeal to the masses) given the current hardware limitations- something that funcom didnt clearly understood.
and before anyone comes with the sandbox approach, yes I actually like sandbox games, but sandbox games can't be broad mmorpg's since the majority of the masses doesnt like to think outside the box, and the sandbox game concept actually is centered on thinking outside the box.
More, no "traditional" MMORPG until now required real skill from players when it comes to pvp, including war, where in the end it is all a zerg not much different than bgs are in wow. the really big difference between WAR and WOW when it comes to pvp is that in WAR the pvp is directed towards an objective and itemization plays a lesser role while in wow pvp is solely based on gear and spec, pvp has low impact on the game itself and random procs define many times the outcome.
Probably arenas are as close as skill in a mmorpg, but still is more about comunication and modus operandi (with a lot of random procs and effects) than skill, and nothing in mmorpg's, where random rolls occur all the time provid a test of skill. Even less in wow- and thats something that most arena junkies will not admit, because they like to show themselfs as the "elite pro arena dude" etc.
any way agree clearly with something , the focus in wow is endgame, initially raiding, right now is almost 60/40 raid and pvp due to arenas. But still endgame, even more when it comes to pvp.
In war, at least until now, you dont need to be max level, covered in "epics" and specced in perfection to pvp. Eventually it will come to gear also, but at least the structure of the game offers the possibility of having the same kind at lower and higher level. And that is good.
Only doubt i have about warhammer is the staying power- something that wow -no matter if one likes it or not, has in abundancy, since the very nature of itemization almost forces one to keep improving their gear on a constant basis to be "king of the hill".
in a final note, it doesnt matter if the pve in war is good or not. The game doesnt aim at it, and thats why not only you can max level just pvping but also to actually do pvp to become "good" since pvp is the key to unlock enhancements.
Not everyone is saying that the PvE sucks, just some.
Most of us who actually plays it like everything about it.
Only doubt i have about warhammer is the staying power- something that wow -no matter if one likes it or not, has in abundancy, since the very nature of itemization almost forces one to keep improving their gear on a constant basis to be "king of the hill".
WoW is an item collecting game, the most successful online collecting game of all time. Built on a gigantic mountain of repetitous activity, some of it fun, some of it not-so-much. As long as they keep adding items and repetitious activities (Daily quests, what a concept!), the masses will be happy. I hope WAR doesn't try to be that kind of game, we already have several. WAR will have staying power by adding classes, play mechanics, new scenarios, new RvR objective types, PvE content, maybe even a real crafting system. WAR will have staying power as long as EA/Mythic stick with it, and EA realizes they're probably not going to ever get WoW-level subscription numbers. EA financial support: that's the biggest question mark for me in regards to WAR's longevity.