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Rant: RvR - Not One Step Back!
Paragus1
Member UncommonPosts: 1,741
Anyone ever been in a massive RvR fight where your side retreats only because the other side is advancing? It drives me nuts to watch what would have been an even fight fall apart because the other side decided to walk forward first. If you have had this happen to you, you might be able to relate to a new article I just put up.
You can read it HERE.
Comments
I blame couple factors to this.
I'll definitely give it to you on the class balance. Destro on my serer seems tank heavy a lot. If you are in an unbalanced goups lacking tanks, then you are rightfully feeling exposed and vulnerable. By the same token though, there are a lot of situations where both sides are pretty well balanced, and one team turns and runs when they see the enemy charging forward without fear. A lot of scenarios will end up like this with one team huddled in the spawn even though they have all the tools needed to give the attacks a good run for their money.
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today in a t3 we ran against a group including 8 bright wizards lol
I play a warrior priest. Every scenario I've played so far i am in the top 5 in kills/deathblows/solo-kills/healing and we win.
If you aren't a dedicated tank class it takes some adjusting to fight when the front line comes at you. Most lines will faulter when there is no foundation. IB/SM have to be that foundation, but WP can do its fair share.
Also as opposed to simply clashing lines that are neatly stacked, I think flanking is a much more effective approach and what some of the classes were actually meant for.
A wall of black orcs running at you is just a little more intimidating than a wall of drawves... not being racist or anything, just honest.
But Order is winning almost all the time on my server. They run in, their lines get thinned, healers have to get closer, so as order we can just slow the tanks, and hit their casters/healers... and end up winning in the end. Hard charges is not always the best strategy...
It amazes me that people just cant seem to grasp the concept of DEFENDING a spot. they think they need to be constantly pushing forward . people need to realize defending the flag is just as important to wining as capturing it.
/agree,
One of the biggest problems I have seen for order. Is that 90% of our DPS attacks their tanks or magus's. I rarely see a WH or a BW or SW strategically try and attack their squishies. Part of the problem is that they have tons of tanks so it makes it difficult. However its funny to see how easy it is to win against destro if you focus fire on their healers and no one can heal their tons o tanks.
Another problem I see alot...is that our tanks arent protecting the healers...as my rune priest i end up getting assaulted by 2-5 marauders and witch elves...thats always fun. Our tanks and dps are all around me watching me get pummeled and they are trying to dps the big tanks and support dps.
I think the best way to get an advantage is to send a few Witch Hunters to flank the healers and have all the other DPS focus on the close range dps classes like the marauders and the witch elfs...once thats done switch to the ranged...and then kill off the healers. 90% of the time when you focus on a dps class the healers cant heal them in time to save them...especially not if they are being harassed by WH.
I was in a scenario with 4 Sword Masters and 2 Ironbreakers along with 5 healers and 3 Dps surprising enough we lost to a group of all pure melee and 1 healer. It was a sad sad day. I was quite dissappointed and pissed off I had to log off the game LoL.
I was in a scenario with 4 Sword Masters and 2 Ironbreakers along with 5 healers and 3 Dps surprising enough we lost to a group of all pure melee and 1 healer. It was a sad sad day. I was quite dissappointed and pissed off I had to log off the game LoL.
well we beat the bright wizard brigate 500 to like 50 but its funny how many order are playing that over powered class now.they need to nerd them or all destruction will ever see is a wall of red heading twards us hahaha
/agree,
One of the biggest problems I have seen for order. Is that 90% of our DPS attacks their tanks or magus's. I rarely see a WH or a BW or SW strategically try and attack their squishies. Part of the problem is that they have tons of tanks so it makes it difficult. However its funny to see how easy it is to win against destro if you focus fire on their healers and no one can heal their tons o tanks.
Another problem I see alot...is that our tanks arent protecting the healers...as my rune priest i end up getting assaulted by 2-5 marauders and witch elves...thats always fun. Our tanks and dps are all around me watching me get pummeled and they are trying to dps the big tanks and support dps.
I think the best way to get an advantage is to send a few Witch Hunters to flank the healers and have all the other DPS focus on the close range dps classes like the marauders and the witch elfs...once thats done switch to the ranged...and then kill off the healers. 90% of the time when you focus on a dps class the healers cant heal them in time to save them...especially not if they are being harassed by WH.
And as an SM, I will have to tell you straight up.. In T4, we dont have enough armor to survive a focused fire from even 2 Witch elves.... As for marauders, all they have to do is knock everyone down, and chain it (which they often do).. I think its a waste for tanks to stand around by healers when we can't FORCE them to attack us. A nice FORCE TARGET taunt (EQ 2) would help fix this, but as it is now, a tank standing by a healer is just as dead as the healer if 2-5 dps melee classes converge on you...
And this is not even factoring in the magus and sorcs throwing those nasty spells at you...
Tanks have a guard ability and if they stay within 30 feet we get reduced incomming damage by 50%, yes staying near us is good because it gives us added protection from the big bad wolves. But its too bad most tanks dont know how to...tank. I am not saying you dont...but eh Every little bit helps, besides destro cant run around the tanks they have to go through you especially in small areas...as far as big ones are concerned unless you are stratgically sound..you will be seeing the big fat RESPAWN timer.
I play an Archmage and it drives me crazy. I'm constantly yelling "PUSH!" Hell, I'll take the lead sometimes and wade into the middle with my shield and HoTs on and my AE morale lifetap up. I'll die half the time, but it'll usually get my side to advance a little and cause the enemy to halt or fall back.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
I think that could be a part of it. A lot of the time this entire situation is related to PUGs. I am wondering if tanks in a PUG really put the guard up on strangers. A lot of time if they do, the person being guarded may not be aware that someone else has it on them, so when the crap hits the fan they don't know to stay within the 30 foot area to stay in the protective buffer.
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I spend a lot of my time in melee, either with my IB, WH or WP and i'm always throwing myself between a Chosen or Marauder and a casting healer, but the caster/healers often don't then take advantage of the blocking i'm doing and move away out of range. With a game that has collison detection i think it will take a while before people realise and make use of the fact that I can actually impede a melee enemy hitting a healer behind me. i guess it will take time to train the reactions to do so and the perception to realise when it's needed.
For the going backwards problem, makes my blood boil. Running away to hide round a corner and wait for their health to build up takes as long or longer than going out in a blaze of glory with that last well placed DoT and then respawning and running back in most of the time. Plus when anyone starts running backwards, everyone else takes their lead and starts to edge back. I've seen it happen in wow, in war, in pretty much any game with PvP. I usually find myself charging in just to impart some forward momentum, and the good thing is, when you charge past their tanks and start hitting their healers, you find that they suffer from the same problem and all start running back as well!
The times the whole Destruction side has inched back from my one man offensive are quite numerous, and then Order start inching forward to match them and suddenly the whole front line has changed direction. Very satisying
Sorry, folks. Black orcs aren't scary. When I see one charging towards me, I think "easy target", and, even better, he's probably going to attack someone else so I can use my positionals and hack him in the back.
Besides... they're FUNGUS. How scared can anyone be of a mushroom with a lower class British accent? Really.
Umm, there are no lines in this game to be held... most of the time anyway.
Destruction melee classes run right past any order tanks and keep running until they can gang attack any of the many order cloth-wearing classes.
The order tanks who stand their ground sense a battle that is not terribly furious, because most of the carnage is well behind them. They then wonder why nobody is healing them, when the remaining healers are either dying or running for their lives - being snared and kited all the while.
If you are an order tank and want to be in the thick of every battle... just stand right in front of your healers, because that's where destruction is heading - I promise you that.
It isn't so much about holding the line, it's about not running at the first sight of a charge. The back row classes are finding themselves being deserted by the front row classes who either get freaked out, or misinterpret the repositioning of healers and rage DPS as retreat. I'd rather have you in the back row knowing that my team is near me, then being ran down like a dog in some allyway in Praag
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