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MMO's taking the skill out of combat
Craz_z
Member Posts: 34
This is what combat in an MMO should be.*
True Equality Versus Realistic Equality
My biggest complaint with MMO combat is that it lacks true, equitable results. MMO's have implemented what I call realistic equality. It's a system that mixes and matches the results of damage and the tools used to imlpment it in a skewed way to ensure balance is preserved. I'll use Everquest 2 as an example. I used to PvP regularly with a level locked wizard with mactercrafted gear and master spells. I could one shot the majority of my lower leveled opponents. Now, wouldn't it be fair for a Ranger to whip out his trusty bow, zoom in and account for the range and arrow drop, take aim and fire. HEAD SHOT. The player skillfully hit the throat or head of an opponent killing, or near killing him. That would be a skill based equitable result, but instead, that one shot kill won't be able to be replicated by virtually any other class due to the nature of realistic equality.
Skill Based Combat
If Age of Conan did one thing well, it was the graphics melee combat system. At least it's a step in rewarding players for more skillful playing. I've been imagining a game where players that used ranged weapons can act like first person shooters, causing damage based on the skill of the player. Instead of pushing the auto-attack button, players should have the ability to move and strafe around opponents causing additional damage, and have the ability to use a block button.
I rarely play pure casters because I find myself placing the spells in order on the keypad that I need them, and then hitting 1-9 ad nauseam. Simply stated, spells need to invoke scaled levels of chaneling. Stacking and interweaving complex chains of events that maximize damage and effectiveness. I would even randomly generate those channels offered to the player, as to eliminate repitition. I'm not talking about spamming the heal button five times to do better damage like in WAR. It should be more complex than that.
True Device Implementation
A serated dirk should induce blood loss resulting in damage over time. A mace or club should occasionally knock back or disorient a target. A sword should slice and lacerate an opponent causing additional damage in random instances. An arrow to the head should result in extreme damage. A long spear should puncture the body causing damage over time. One could even implement crafting serations on a blade, or augmenting weapons to proc these effects based on the tool one uses.
In sum, I know it's impossible to make a game without checks to keep the human variable on a playing field that's even. What's missing is real innovation. I'm not asking for Call of Duty-esque MMO combat. What I would like though, is for players to have the ability to determine their destiny, and have a greater impact on whether they live.....or die.
*The whole post is an opinion
"Woah....Wait......Dude, am I driving right now?"
Comments
You've stated some very true points here, and I agree with you for the most part, I do find that some MMORPGs where the skill system has been simply made a long list of skills that you use in a certain order.
However, I do find that some of the high-end MMORPGs tend to avoid this through PvP combat. Sure, a monster will always fight the same way, but playing against another person is a different story. Unfortunately, MMOs are less about twitch skill these days, and more about time and planning.
What I find is that most MMOs are stuck in this mould of how a MMO should be. It's the safe option, meaning games will always do okay, but never excel because they don't bring anything new to the player's experience. It's a home comfort that most MMOers will see, the skill bar at the bottom with the same basic magic projectile attack.
You've raised a very important point, and when a MMO that ultilises this as a new aspect of playing, we will be able to enjoy a new experience that will breathe new life into this aging community.
I couldn't agree more.
I don't know what's going on and I'm not sure if innovation exists and is being stifled, or no one cares enough to produce something memorable versus profitable.
"Woah....Wait......Dude, am I driving right now?"
AoC skillsbased combat and in right directions lol.
Button bashing with rediculous NEON SIGNS showing where to hit next THEMEPARK COMBAT for the casual noob player:P
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Why is that unfortunate?
They aren't fps shooters. Part of the reason that they do this is so a broader group of people can participate.
I don't play professional football because quite frankly I just don't have the physical mass to do so. I can play a football video game and enjoy being able to pit myself against another opponent no matter his size.
Not everyone has the hand eye coordination to play a fps and play it well. But by evening things out a bit at least they can be somewhat competitive.
If a game wants to be an fps mmorpg then that's fine by me. Huxley might have that but who knows if they will make concessions.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I hear what you are saying, but I'm not sure I can agree with what I understood.
You use the term "skill". It's difficult for me to determine exactly what you mean by "skill", but if you mean dexterity and quick reflxes then I greatly disagree with you. If by "skill" you mean the ability to think quickly, and make good decisions and react in a timely manner than I can agree with you. I'm part of the crowd who thinks the Halo and Counterstrike crowd can stick to their reflex-bunny-hopping games but keep it out of my RPG's
Also, concerning AoC combat system.
If I wanted to play Dance Revolution I'd go down to the local arcade.
They aren't fps shooters. Part of the reason that they do this is so a broader group of people can participate.
You make a very good point. I would counter this by saying their are plently of what-would-be casual MMOs already released and that's fine for most people. I think the aspects we are discussing (forgive me if I'm wrong) are the more focuses gamers such as yourself and me.
I agree with you. MMOFPS are around for anything like that.
I'd like to see a new way to play a RPG, something new that isn't pretty much the same as any other generic RPG. Take Atlantis for example, it's interesting because it goes into a battle scene to fight monsters in a turn-based battle. It's new, and seperates it from other MMOs.
In response to Evasia:
I never said it was a step in the right direction. I stated that at least it rewards players for more skillful play. I also see nothing funny enough about that statement to merit an LOL or a :P
Also, how is this combat any less themepark than say, pushing an autoattack button, or mashing spell hotkeys in order. I think you're fantastically missing the concept of the post.
Just another pointless and stupid AoC attack, which is completely off the topc of the post. Thank you, and may god have mercy on your soul.
To the FPS comparisons:
I explicitly state that I don't want a Call of Duty like game, just something more innovative.
To the "skill" question:
I define it as your second meaning. An idea that more intelligent, resourceful play should be rewarded...as opposed to "twitch' style play.
General thoughts:
I was hoping to generate a few comments or ideas on what MMO combat should be like and how others would implment combat systems, not an AoC, CoD flame fest.
"Woah....Wait......Dude, am I driving right now?"
Innovation exists, it just gets shunned by the masses. Anything that tries something different is derided for not being a 'TRUE' mmo.
Take DDO for example. It has an excellent combat system, Single Player RPG quality dungeons and endless character creation options... but it's ignored and even hated by many people. Sure it's not a perfect game, none of them are, but a lot of the complaints are about the things that were different from EQ, WoW, and the other 'real' MMO's.
Nobody dares to do anything different because most gamers seem to be happy with the usual garbage. And to be fair, the usual garbage is new and unique to many gamers just getting into MMO's
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DDO Permadeath guilds
Is it hard to put on those blinders every morning? Or do you put them on just for special MMO forum occasions like this?
DDO is a horrible game on its own merits entirely, it has nothing to do with games that actually fall within the MMO genre. It is also not different or innovative to any degree. It is a poorly wrought clone of the Diablo and Diablo II gaming system using the Dungeons & Dragons roleplaying infrastructure. The two don't mesh well, btw. And, as far as equality of individual combat goes (which is what this thread seems primary concerned about, mostly for the sake of PvP) DDO is probably one of the worst games that has ever existed. D&D combat balance is entirely group-based, and DDO does not implement PvP as a part of its actual game structure. Plus, DDO has a myriad of inconsistencies with its combat mechanics (armor class, attack progressions, attack rate, enhancements, weapon specials) that make it far worse than a system that was true to D&D mechanics.
What DDO does do really quite well is realtime control and physics (minus a few ranged attack directional control and server/client cooldown issues). I think Turbine actually uses a third party physics engine (Havok, I believe), and it's probably one of the best I've encountered in any game genre I've played. When most people comment on DDO's combat, I think they are mostly impressed with the collision detection, jumping, rolling, grabbing of ledges, and responsive realtime controls and attacks that the engine(s) provide. The graphics aren't too shabby, either.
Other aspects of combat are usually more often the subject of criticism.
Like I said, DDO is ignored/hated by many players because it is different. I didn't mean to imply that it was a bad thing (unfortunate for people like me that like these games though
), just a fact of life in the entertainment world.
And I thought the thread was about innovation in MMO combat in general, not just PvP systems. DDO combat is different, how many MMO's allow you to dodge arrows and spells after they have been fired or sidestep a melee attack that has already started or hold up a shield to absorb part of the blow (which the OP did ask for)... not many from what I've seen.
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DDO Permadeath guilds
I do see a lot more skill in twitch based games than the current form of MMO's, but that is just me. I enjoy MMO's a great deal more than I've ever enjoyed an FPS though because after a while FPS games get boring, dry, and become very thoughtless. Which is why I think there should be some sort of a merge between the two. Combining strategy and the FPS style aiming is a step in at least a NEW direction.
To the original poster, I would suggest you take a look at TCOS, the combat looks incredible and it might be what you are looking for.
Well in order to mass market/sell your game developers want to make it easy enough so that everyone can play it which equates into more money. Real life is difficult enough, games shouldn't be majorly difficult to learn and play.